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Speaker 1: Coming up on you need therapy.

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Speaker 2: So I have this lovely client that I've worked with

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Speaker 2: off and on for a long long time, and he

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Speaker 2: asked me to kind of review the growth charts of

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Speaker 2: his children. But he's like, listen, I grew up in

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Speaker 2: a larger body and nobody let me forget it my

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Speaker 2: whole life. And he's like, I don't ever want them

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Speaker 2: to feel the way I feel.

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Speaker 3: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't

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Speaker 3: a liability, it's a real gift.

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Speaker 2: If we don't know something about ourselves at this point

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Speaker 2: in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know.

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Speaker 1: If you can die before you die, then you can

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Speaker 1: really live.

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Speaker 2: There's a wisdom at death's door. I thought I was insane. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't know what to do because there was

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Speaker 2: no internet.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel like everything

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Speaker 3: is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a

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Speaker 3: human first and a licensed therapist second. And right now

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Speaker 3: I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope encourage you

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Speaker 3: to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others,

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Speaker 3: and the world around you.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to you need Therapy.

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Speaker 3: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You

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Speaker 3: Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat. I am the host,

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Speaker 3: and quick reminder before we get into today's episode that

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Speaker 3: although this podcast is called You Need Therapy, I am

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Speaker 3: a licensed therapist. This podcast does not serve as a

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Speaker 3: replacement or substitute for any actual mental health services.

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Speaker 1: We do.

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Speaker 3: However, always, always, always hope that it can be a

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Speaker 3: tool and it can help and guide you along whatever

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Speaker 3: road you are on in the moment. Now today, I'm

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Speaker 3: super pumped to share with you our conversation or the

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Speaker 3: conversation I had with a amazing, wonderful, brilliant gentle I

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Speaker 3: could go on human name Leslie Shilling. And I don't

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Speaker 3: remember if I talk about this in our conversation and

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Speaker 3: our interview, but I was introduced to her by a

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Speaker 3: colleague because they were talking about her new book that

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Speaker 3: she came out with called Feed Yourself, which is a

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Speaker 3: book about how diet culture shows up in the safe places,

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Speaker 3: including places of worship, faith and all of that, and

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Speaker 3: how to kind of untie ourselves from that. And I

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Speaker 3: immediately thought to myself, I've got to get my hands

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Speaker 3: on this book. I have to read this book. This

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Speaker 3: is going to be so helpful for no only myself,

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Speaker 3: but clients. And then I got an email from Leslie's

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Speaker 3: team asking if she wanted to be on the podcast,

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Speaker 3: and I immediately responded, Oh my gosh, I was just

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Speaker 3: on the website trying to order this book. Yes, I

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Speaker 3: would love to have a conversation with Leslie. And that

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Speaker 3: is what you guys are getting today. Leslie is a

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Speaker 3: Master's level registered dietitian and she specializes in disordered eating,

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Speaker 3: sports nutrition, family nutrition, and weight concerns. And like I said,

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Speaker 3: she recently came out with a new book titled Feed Yourself,

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Speaker 3: where she's sharing her expertise with the masses and guiding

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Speaker 3: readers everyone who reads this book as they uncover all

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Speaker 3: the lies that we've been told about our bodies throughout

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Speaker 3: our lifespan. She's also the owner of Shilling Nutrition and

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Speaker 3: this is a private nutrition therapy and wellness coaching business

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Speaker 3: that you can go to her website. I will put

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Speaker 3: that in the link in the show notes here. I'll

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Speaker 3: put the link there. She is a regular writer for

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Speaker 3: US News and she has been featured in Women's Health, Self, BuzzFeed,

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Speaker 3: and so much more. She is a wealth of knowledge,

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Speaker 3: and I thoroughly enjoyed talking to her because she's just

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Speaker 3: one of those people who gets it more than most

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Speaker 3: and it was refreshing. It was a reminder of the

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Speaker 3: truth that is sometimes hard for me to hold onto,

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Speaker 3: even as a professional in this space. And I really

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Speaker 3: think you were going to like her what she has

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Speaker 3: to say in the way she says it. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to link her Instagram so you can follow her. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to link where you can get the book feed

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Speaker 3: yourself as well, and she also talks about where you

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Speaker 3: can find those things in our conversation as well. But

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Speaker 3: I just want you guys to hear this conversation, so

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Speaker 3: I'm going to stop talking, and without any more waiting,

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Speaker 3: here is my enlightening conversation with Leslie Shilling. All right, guys,

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Speaker 3: welcome back to another new episode of You Need Therapy.

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Speaker 3: I am super excited today because we have somebody here

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Speaker 3: talking with us that I was actually planning on ordering

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Speaker 3: this book before I even got the email about talking

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Speaker 3: to you for the podcast. The book is about something

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Speaker 3: that really I wish we were talking about more or

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Speaker 3: was a more normalized realization in our world, But we

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Speaker 3: have Leslie Shilling here, who is coming out with a

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Speaker 3: new book called Feed Yourself, And I would like you

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Speaker 3: to tell us a little bit bit about your background,

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Speaker 3: because you have an interesting story as a dietitian of

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Speaker 3: the Transformation. So I want to hear what got you

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Speaker 3: into being a dietitian and then what happened that encouraged

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Speaker 3: you to write a book like this.

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Speaker 2: So I live in Las Vegas now and the draw

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Speaker 2: is North Carolina. I grew up in North Carolina, lived

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Speaker 2: in Memphis for fifteen years, so I'm a Southern gal

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Speaker 2: living in the desert now love the West. You know.

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Speaker 2: I grew up like my grandmother. And if if you've

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Speaker 2: read the book, you know Nanny I talk about was

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Speaker 2: really this amazing, amazing woman who was just really stuck

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Speaker 2: in wanting to change her body her whole life. And

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Speaker 2: my mom and my sister and I all heard about

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Speaker 2: that growing up. I mean, we were very loved. She's

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Speaker 2: an amazing person and she struggled her whole life with

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Speaker 2: wanting to be something that her body was never meant

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Speaker 2: to be. So that's a little bit about the background

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Speaker 2: growing up. And I was a gymnast, so it was

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Speaker 2: a competitive gymnast, which is a sport rife with disordered

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Speaker 2: eating and body image concerns and some really unfortunate coaching practices.

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Speaker 2: And so I'm coming up in this and I'm also

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Speaker 2: in the South, where I don't know how you grew up,

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Speaker 2: but like where I grew up in the South, like

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Speaker 2: a pearance was a big deal. You know, how you look, like,

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Speaker 2: don't make your mama look bad, that kind of stuff,

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Speaker 2: you know, And so all of that's carrying with me.

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Speaker 2: And then I graduate high school, I go to college

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Speaker 2: and realize, like, wow, you can study nutrition like I

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Speaker 2: was like pre med and forensics before CSI was a show.

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Speaker 2: Like I really wanted to like be that crime scene

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Speaker 2: investigator person. Like if I could go back and do both.

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Speaker 4: That would be cool.

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Speaker 2: But I can, That'd be so cool. My sister had

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Speaker 2: a roommate who was in the nutrition program where I

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Speaker 2: went to school, and there was a nutrition book in

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Speaker 2: my sister's dorman and so kind of the rest is history.

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Speaker 2: I kind of switched gears. Haven't been a gymnast. It

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Speaker 2: was super interesting to me to see how fueling the

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Speaker 2: body and all the things in the science behind it.

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Speaker 2: And I got trained. You know, have a master's degree

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Speaker 2: and undergrad and nutrition did a lot of exercise science

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Speaker 2: and sport nutrition.

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Speaker 4: In my master's.

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Speaker 2: Degree, learned a whole lot about diet culture, meaning like

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Speaker 2: not be aware of this, but it's actually part of

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Speaker 2: how we learn very weight centric training. Anybody who's in

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Speaker 2: the field and health and medicine gets a lot of

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Speaker 2: weight centric training. And over the years I've had to

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Speaker 2: do a lot of unlearning to not you know, perpetuate

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Speaker 2: harms and the clients and the patients and athletes that

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Speaker 2: I support, and that kind of you know trickled to

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Speaker 2: as my eyes were becoming more able to see diet

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Speaker 2: culture and even how I had perpetuated it in my

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Speaker 2: own practice, I started to see it in the safe

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Speaker 2: places like it's in schools, it's in health lessons, it's

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Speaker 2: in conversations, you know, as we're having lunch with a friend,

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Speaker 2: it is in the doctor's office with the obligatory wait

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Speaker 2: check as soon as you walk in. It's everywhere, and

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Speaker 2: it's even in what we consider or what we would

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Speaker 2: hope to be the safest of the places, which would

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Speaker 2: be places of worship. When we have diet plans wrapped

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Speaker 2: in a Bible verse or believers weighing in together, and

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Speaker 2: you know, I think it's really become dangerous. And that

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Speaker 2: really planted this seed in my heart, probably a decade ago.

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Speaker 2: I joke like, this is the book I've been writing

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Speaker 2: in my heart for a decade, and now it's real.

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Speaker 2: It's out in the world. And it's because diet culture,

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Speaker 2: which is a system of beliefs that leads us to

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Speaker 2: think that thinness leads to health and worthiness. Diet culture

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Speaker 2: is in all the safe places, and it was really

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Speaker 2: time for me to speak up about it because nobody

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Speaker 2: was talking about it. Nobody was saying, wait a minute,

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Speaker 2: that sermon is really harmful. I think you meant well,

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Speaker 2: but this cause harm.

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Speaker 3: That's important what you just said. I think you meant well,

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Speaker 3: but this is causing harm. Because so much of what

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Speaker 3: you wrote in your book I resonated with, especially when

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Speaker 3: you were talking about it being taught in schools. And

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Speaker 3: I don't think any teacher I ever had meant to

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Speaker 3: hurt me. I don't think anything that my parents may

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Speaker 3: have said or any meant to hurt me. And because

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Speaker 3: everybody is afraid of making somebody else uncomfortable because.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, they didn't mean it, so I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: let it go.

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Speaker 3: Well, then they don't know that what they're saying is

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Speaker 3: actually not very kind and not very helpful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and seeds of dou like that plant seeds of

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Speaker 2: doubt in your soul. And as an eating disorder specialist

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Speaker 2: and dietitian, I've been pulling those weeds with clients sitting

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Speaker 2: across the room from me for twenty years. And that's

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Speaker 2: the thing, Like we can mean well and still calls

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Speaker 2: harm and coaches and parents, sunny school teachers and pastors

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Speaker 2: and doctors have no doubt meant well. And at the

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Speaker 2: same time, I'm sitting across from a person who that

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Speaker 2: seed gout planned fifteen years ago and we are still

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Speaker 2: trying to heal that person from the wound that was

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Speaker 2: I meant well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Have you had any pushback from people, whether it's

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Speaker 3: somebody in the church, whether it's a doctor, whether it's

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Speaker 3: another dietitian, Have you had any pushback from any of

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Speaker 3: those people I've as you've started to speak up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's always someone who's like, you know, oh, you're

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Speaker 2: just letting people or telling people that they can eat anything,

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Speaker 2: And like living in a large body is fine. And

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Speaker 2: I'm like, well, you know, you can eat anything outside

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Speaker 2: of a medical food allergy. And you know, I have

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Speaker 2: to explain to people the things that I didn't.

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Speaker 4: Learn in school.

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Speaker 2: I was I would have been that person twenty years ago.

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Speaker 2: So yes, I do get pushed back from dietitians. And

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Speaker 2: I also call dietitians out. You know, someone's kind of

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Speaker 2: arguing with me, I'm social about but what about this?

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Speaker 2: But what about this? And I was like, we are

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Speaker 2: responsible as professionals to help people understand their language, because

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Speaker 2: she was really trying to like talk about someone who

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Speaker 2: hasn't maybe a medical allergy or something like that, And like,

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Speaker 2: we have to be very careful about our language because

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about diets and dieting and diet culture. We

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Speaker 2: often think that things that are medically nutritionally necessary for

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Speaker 2: some people, say a medical food allergy, like a peanut allergy,

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Speaker 2: we've really kind of let those lines be crossed. And

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Speaker 2: so yeah, I get pushed back. I've had doctor Hees

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Speaker 2: say your dietitian's an idiot, like I've I mean, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, well, I am happy to send your

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Speaker 2: cardiologist or whoever the information, which is a randomized controlled

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Speaker 2: trial that is peer reviewed, and it's the highest quality

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Speaker 2: research we have. So I'm prepared to back things up.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like I really tried hard to do

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Speaker 2: that in the book because I am saying things that

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Speaker 2: are super countercultural, and I am saying things that might

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Speaker 2: a doctor or a dietitian or your grandmother or somebody

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Speaker 2: might disagree with. And yes, because I was there, I

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Speaker 2: was on the other side. I was the person who

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, well, you just have to do that.

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Speaker 2: But that was before I realized how complex health and

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Speaker 2: wellness and everything really is, and what you eat and

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Speaker 2: how you move your body is important, but it is

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Speaker 2: not as important as what we've made it out to be.

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Speaker 2: We've forgotten like the social determinants of health, Like people

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Speaker 2: don't even learn like the social determinent determinants of health

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Speaker 2: in some of our medical and nutrition programs, And that's

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Speaker 2: such a big factor of health that we just talk

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Speaker 2: about food.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, your book. As I was reading it, there's like

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Speaker 3: two parts of me. It was like the part now

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Speaker 3: that when I went into school to become a therapist,

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be an eating disorder therapist.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, I was in an active eating disorder.

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Speaker 3: But I wanted to What I wanted to do is

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Speaker 3: work with binge eating disorder, and I wanted to help

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Speaker 3: people lose weight. Like that's the frame of mind I had.

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Speaker 3: And then very quickly it was very helpful that I

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Speaker 3: had so much information coming at me that kind of

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Speaker 3: shifted that really quickly. That helped me before I could

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Speaker 3: do too much harm. But I was reading this as

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Speaker 3: kind of two people. The person before that that would

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Speaker 3: be like, what no, this, she's missing this whole point,

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Speaker 3: like all the point, like what about this?

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Speaker 1: What about that?

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Speaker 3: And this does mean that? And you just the things

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Speaker 3: you said, like you just want anybody to do whatever

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Speaker 3: they want, and you just want to.

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Speaker 1: Make people happy.

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Speaker 3: And then the other part that was like, now the

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Speaker 3: things that you were talking about, I'm like, duh, yes,

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Speaker 3: of course, why is this so hard for people to understand?

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Speaker 1: But it is.

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Speaker 3: Because it is so the things that you're saying are

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Speaker 3: so opposite of our popular culture's belief system. Yeah, because

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Speaker 3: nobody's challenged them. But to the people that have sat

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Speaker 3: in the challenge seat, it feels like, oh, why can't

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Speaker 3: you understand it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'll be talking to dieticians and like completely,

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Speaker 2: We're completely on two different sides of the paradigm here,

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Speaker 2: like some are very weight focused and then some are

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Speaker 2: very weight and neutral and understand that weight is not

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Speaker 2: a behavior and we're not going to chase a number

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Speaker 2: on a scale. If you want to engage in health

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Speaker 2: promoting behaviors, yay, that's fine, that's what we want to

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Speaker 2: help people do. And I will say, I'm like, no

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Speaker 2: one in twenty plus years of practice has ever written

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Speaker 2: me a thank you note for putting them on a diet. Never,

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Speaker 2: and so I always bring that to the conversation. I said,

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Speaker 2: but let me tell you, I have a folder in

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Speaker 2: my inbox and physically in my filing cabinet that are

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Speaker 2: letters and harards and just little notes from people saying

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Speaker 2: thank you for helping me see diet culture, thank you

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Speaker 2: for helping me be more assertive at the doctor's office

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Speaker 2: to get health care, not wait care. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's part of the thing that people don't see when

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Speaker 2: we have it, Like it took me probably three to

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Speaker 2: five years to kind of be in this state of

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Speaker 2: cognitive dissonance where I'm like, oh, but I paid so

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Speaker 2: much for my degree on this and now I have

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Speaker 2: to you know, now I'm switching over to this, but

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Speaker 2: it took me.

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Speaker 4: A while to switch gears.

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Speaker 2: And what I really learned is is like, by listening

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Speaker 2: to the lived experience who have of people who have

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Speaker 2: been harmed in diet culture, I couldn't do it anymore.

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Speaker 2: And so I do share that with other professionals. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: no one has ever written me a thank you note

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Speaker 2: for putting them on a diet, but helping people find

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Speaker 2: health that aligns with their values, their abilities, their benefits

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Speaker 2: in this life. It's hard because I'm standing up to

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Speaker 2: a lot of people who I advocate for my clients

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Speaker 2: when they run into professionals that maybe don't believe the

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Speaker 2: same or haven't read the evidence that I have yet.

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Speaker 2: And so it's hard work. But it's gosh. Once you

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Speaker 2: see diet culture, you help somebody see diet culture they

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Speaker 2: cannot unsee.

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Speaker 1: It and see it.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it'll drive you crazy. So what I want to

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Speaker 3: do today is I picked some things that really stood

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Speaker 3: out to me and I just want to read some

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Speaker 3: quotes from your actual book and just have you elaborate

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Speaker 3: a little bit on them. I have ten. I don't

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Speaker 3: know that will depending on where my brain goes. I

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Speaker 3: don't know if we'll get through all of them, but

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Speaker 3: I want to start because the thing that I love

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Speaker 3: about your book is that it talks directly about how

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Speaker 3: diet culture is in the church and how that can

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Speaker 3: be helpful. I want to start with this, and it's

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Speaker 3: more of a simple one. But for this is one

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Speaker 3: of those things that I'm like, this is simple, But

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Speaker 3: for some people they might be like, no, so I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna start with this one, you said, So I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: start with this one. You said, diet Ing, which is

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Speaker 3: a common and seemingly benign practice.

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Speaker 1: Is disordered eating.

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Speaker 3: Our diet crazed and body obsessed culture has become intertwined

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Speaker 3: with the church. It's a dangerous pairing of the secular

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Speaker 3: and the sacred. And the reason that stuck out to

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Speaker 3: me it seems like a basic sentence or sentences, but

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Speaker 3: for you to say our diet crazy and body obsessed

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Speaker 3: culture has become intertwined with the church, which is very dangerous.

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Speaker 3: I want to hear how you when people are like,

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Speaker 3: what do you mean, how and why is that dangerous?

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Speaker 1: Why is that so scary?

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Speaker 2: That really makes me think about my first like eye

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Speaker 2: opening experience in my own own practice, in my own office,

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Speaker 2: I had a couple come sit down with me, and

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Speaker 2: I write about this particular encounter in the book because

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Speaker 2: it was it was a pivotal moment for me to

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Speaker 2: see the dangerous pairing of the secular and the sacred.

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Speaker 2: And so this couple sits down with me. Husband's doing

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Speaker 2: the talking, saying, this is what we're doing with our church.

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Speaker 2: We've been doing this lifestyle plan, diet, whatever you want

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Speaker 2: to call it, fast, whatever we can feel in the blank,

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Speaker 2: because there's all of them.

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Speaker 4: And she is.

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Speaker 2: Very clearly suffering with an eating disorder because she has

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Speaker 2: restricted and taken so much out of her. Like, we're

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Speaker 2: beyond disordered eating at this moment, which are our typical

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Speaker 2: practice is dieting. We're beyond that. We have physical and

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Speaker 2: mental health implications now. So she's so underfed, she's very frail.

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Speaker 2: She's young. I mean, like this you would not find,

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Speaker 2: you would not think you would see this type of

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Speaker 2: frailty in someone so young. And I had to explain

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Speaker 2: to this couple that I think this diet program that

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Speaker 2: you're doing as a congregation is really really dangerous for you.

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Speaker 2: It was dangerous for everybody but at that point, just

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Speaker 2: talking to my client, and you know, I really started

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Speaker 2: digging into like how you have to care for you

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Speaker 2: have to feed your body enough, We have to give

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Speaker 2: your body enough, and to help them see and they

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Speaker 2: were so for me, them, not knowing at that point

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Speaker 2: that like, I'm the person of faith at all, I'm

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Speaker 2: just this nutrition professional. They came to They're like, well,

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Speaker 2: who are you to say that what God has decided

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Speaker 2: for us to do is wrong?

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Speaker 4: Who were you?

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Speaker 2: You know, like, and the thing is, what we've done

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Speaker 2: here is we've had people view versus through a diet

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Speaker 2: culture lens and not a biblical lens because we all

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Speaker 2: grew up here. Everybody I live in this moment in

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Speaker 2: time grew up in die culture and so we read

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Speaker 2: the words, we read scripture through that lens.

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Speaker 4: So we have to be very very careful.

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Speaker 2: So what has happened is our interpretation has been skewed

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Speaker 2: by diet culture. Therefore, this whole congregation was on the

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Speaker 2: diet together, which is incredibly dangerous because we know there's

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Speaker 2: like so many different medical diagnoses, lived experiences, levels of

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Speaker 2: income or not in a congregation. And so that was

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Speaker 2: one of the first examples where I saw this blending

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Speaker 2: of the secular, which is diet culture, with the sacred,

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Speaker 2: which is now rapid in a Bible verse, and say

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Speaker 2: it's truth. And that is so dangerous.

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Speaker 3: You said later, there's another one of the quotes that

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Speaker 3: I wrote down was some churches today even suggests that

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Speaker 3: keeping a trim body and maintaining attractiveness for the husband's

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Speaker 3: benefit is a godly activity, maybe even a calling.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That I was like, oh, and listen, people send me

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Speaker 2: messages they're like, you will not believe what I heard today.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, well, sadly, I will believe it, but let

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Speaker 2: her up. And you know, people will share like I

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Speaker 2: cannot believe it, or they'll be listened to the sermon online.

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Speaker 2: And yes, we have let the objectification of female bodies

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Speaker 2: get wrapped up in this too. And somebody just reached

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Speaker 2: out to me yesterday or the day before, like, you

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Speaker 2: will not believe this stuff that's going on in this

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Speaker 2: in this men's group about talking about wives and bodies

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Speaker 2: and the objectification. He this is a colleague who's a

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Speaker 2: male who is like, I cannot believe it. But if

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Speaker 2: you have a pastor or an influential ministry leader who

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Speaker 2: says that you can ask it or require it of

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Speaker 2: a partner. That's some dangerous stuff and we can't. We don't.

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Speaker 2: We are far less in control of these bodies is

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Speaker 2: than we think we are. Like bodies are meant to change,

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Speaker 2: and and if we just uphold our significant others to

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Speaker 2: these really worldly diet culture formed ideals that really break relationships.

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Speaker 3: M h. I imagine it's pretty hard as somebody in

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Speaker 3: a church or any I mean any religious organization and

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Speaker 3: wanting to do good and wanting to do right, but

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Speaker 3: then that is going against kind of what you're saying.

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Speaker 3: So how have you had clients like the one you

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Speaker 3: were telling about us before?

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Speaker 1: How have they wrestled with that? Like, well, what do

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Speaker 1: you mean?

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Speaker 3: But like our church said that this is good, and

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Speaker 3: this is and God likes us and God wants this

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Speaker 3: and this brings us closer.

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Speaker 1: But you're telling me that it's not. How can that exist?

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Speaker 4: Gosh, it's so crazy.

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Speaker 2: I've done a lot of this learning and learning in

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Speaker 2: my own life in terms of how I grew up

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Speaker 2: in the church too, So like I've done a lot

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Speaker 2: of this work and just so you know, I like

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Speaker 2: I've been in therapy for twenty years and help, help helps,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I've had people and I hired theologians

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Speaker 2: for the book to like help me make sure I

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Speaker 2: don't do what I say other people do, which is

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Speaker 2: take things out of context. And so in the church,

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Speaker 2: I really just talk about how like the church is

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Speaker 2: made up of people, and people interpret things the way

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Speaker 2: they're grown up. Their on lived experience, you know, plays

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Speaker 2: a role. And if you grew up in a church

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Speaker 2: that was you know very much had that language of

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Speaker 2: you know, a woman has to look a certain way,

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Speaker 2: and then you become a pastor, you're probably not going

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Speaker 2: to challenge those beliefs. And so we do have some

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Speaker 2: open conversations. And I will say when we're talking things

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Speaker 2: like this in my office as a nutrition professional and

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Speaker 2: an eating disorder specialist, we always have a team. There's

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Speaker 2: always a therapist involved who because there's a out people

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Speaker 2: have come to harm with many of these messages that

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Speaker 2: are in the church. And so at that point, I

439
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: will say a lot of the people who are sitting

440
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 2: here wrestling with these beliefs about their goodness and bodies

441
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 2: being objectified have probably stepped away because they were so harmed.

442
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: So it's a lot easier to talk about when someone

443
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 2: already feels like I don't belong there, something wasn't right,

444
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 2: and when we can really separate that, like the church is,

445
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 2: the church is made of people. God is different, you know. Yeah,

446
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: And so we talk about that a lot. It's hard

447
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 2: because like, I don't want to be like your pastor

448
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 2: was completely wrong, But I think about that. Let's really

449
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,239
Speaker 2: think about that. Let's think about that passage and does

450
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 2: God make junk? Let's really think about.

451
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 3: It, right, Yeah, And I imagine that a lot of

452
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 3: times that those conversations can actually, like I think this

453
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 3: is kind of what you're saying, bring people back into

454
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 3: a place where they their faith feels good and safe

455
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 3: because they can fit into it, which is brings you

456
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 3: to another one of the quotes that I wrote down.

457
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 3: You said, won't all the amazingly different bodies created by

458
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 3: God be in heaven? Every body type, even the bodies

459
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 3: of those who were chronically ill or disabled, will be celebrated.

460
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 3: Body diversity is divine? And I read that, and then

461
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 3: I went back and I read it again, and I

462
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 3: think I might have read it like three times because

463
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 3: I've actually never thought of that. But yeah, God created

464
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 3: all these different bodies and you talk about that a lot,

465
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 3: and has that been something that was eye opening for you?

466
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 3: Is that, wait a second, we don't all just go

467
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 3: to wherever we go and we all look the same

468
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, the belief.

469
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: That we can just eat a certain way and move

470
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: a certain way and we'll all have this like than

471
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 2: whatever body that fits in disize clothing. And what I

472
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: mean like that is diet culture. That is like a joke.

473
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 2: And you know our health care system has bought into

474
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: that too, sadly, but yes, you know, and that really

475
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 2: I will say working with a theologian that I knew

476
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 2: before the book and just had really loved, like digging

477
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 2: in the word with her really helped me with this

478
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 2: because she was like when Jesus was resurrected, as scars

479
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 2: were there, she was like, we are all created uniquely

480
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 2: on purpose. And I'll say something in my practice that

481
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 2: really brought this home as I have this lovely client

482
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: that I've worked with off and on for a long

483
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 2: long time, and he asked me to kind of review

484
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 2: the growth charts of his children. But he's like, listen,

485
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 2: I grew up in a larger body and nobody let

486
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 2: me forget.

487
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 4: It my whole life.

488
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: And he's like, I don't ever want them to feel

489
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 2: the way I felt. And so just knowing that, he's like,

490
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 2: I'm just a big dude, like this, this is my

491
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 2: body right, And he really wanted for his kids to

492
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 2: know that their bodies were right. They were just as

493
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 2: they were supposed to be, even though maybe they were

494
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 2: high on the growth chart or whatever.

495
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 4: And so like I and.

496
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,479
Speaker 2: I followed this family for years and years, more than

497
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 2: a decade, and so how like, this is exactly how

498
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: you're supposed to be, and to see body diversity one

499
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: as just natural and having always been in our world.

500
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 2: People are short, people are tall, people are you know, bigger,

501
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: people are thinner. I have like a size nine foot

502
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 2: and nobody's like, girl, you should really you should really

503
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: work on that, you know.

504
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 4: Like we just accept it.

505
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: And so I think when we accept that, that's really helpful.

506
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 2: The other thing to realize is that God didn't create

507
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: us to be frozen in time. So these bodies look

508
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 2: like they've lived a life and they look different over time.

509
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: My body doesn't My forty six year old body does

510
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: not look like my twenty six year old body or

511
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: my sixteen year old body, and it was never supposed to.

512
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 2: These amazing bodies generally expand they usually don't shrink unless

513
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 2: we're ill or something's happening, or you know that it

514
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 2: is unusual for that to happen. But these amazing bodies

515
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: also take medications that we really really need that might

516
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: impact how our bodies present in the world. We might

517
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 2: have illnesses that also change how we our bodies present

518
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 2: in the world, and we might have disabilities. There's so

519
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 2: many variables. So body diversity is one, we're created this way,

520
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 2: and two, it's okay if we change, and it's normal

521
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 2: if we change. And that's something else that we're not

522
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: talking about either, is that, like you don't have to

523
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 2: like be frozen at this one point in your life,

524
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 2: which quite possibly for I'd say about seventy five percent

525
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: of American women was you know, probably created from disordered behaviors.

526
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: That's what the evidence suggests. There's a survey from Self

527
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 2: magazine and UNC that suggests about seventy five percent of

528
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: American women engage in unhealthy weight control practices.

529
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 3: And then we're all comparing ourselves to everybody that's doing that. Yeah,

530
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 3: like we're all doing that, and we're all comparing ourselves

531
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 3: thinking that everybody else isn't, So we're comparing ourselves to

532
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 3: something disordered.

533
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when we can't be compared because like the

534
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: only person I care, I can't even you can't even

535
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 2: compare within families because there's also genetic variability and so yeah,

536
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: so when we're comparing, like, well, that person eats like that,

537
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 2: so if I eat like that, then maybe I can Like, No,

538
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: it doesn't work that way. You know, a person's using

539
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: my fitness pal, I'm like, well, that's probably pretty disordered

540
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: in itself, you know, because it's you know, my fitness

541
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: pals like let me make sure you get enough to eat.

542
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 2: Never that's not the default.

543
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 3: Well, and honestly, I don't I know what the solution

544
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 3: is to this, because children and kids and adolescents, I

545
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 3: mean even adults. But there is a lot of error

546
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 3: and interpretation of the things that we are taught. Often

547
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 3: some of it right now I think is error because

548
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 3: of what is taught is wrong. But growing up, I

549
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 3: had a sister who was two years older than me.

550
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 3: Her body was so different than mine. I were short,

551
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 3: and I honestly wouldn't say that I was in a

552
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 3: larger body, but I have that view because that's what

553
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 3: I believe.

554
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: For myself as a kid.

555
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: But then my sister was very very thin and she

556
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 3: was taller, and that drove me crazy of why do

557
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 3: I look like this but she looks like that, Like

558
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 3: we have the same parents, And it sends that message

559
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,719
Speaker 3: that like I'm doing something wrong, paired with things that

560
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 3: were taught in school, like doing our BMI in the

561
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 3: middle of a class and having to share that with people.

562
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 3: And then I had a teacher that one of the

563
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 3: lessons was like, oh, okay, well, what can we do

564
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 3: to move your BMI into a more healthy range? I

565
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 3: had a teacher that one of the lessons was like, okay, well,

566
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 3: what can we do to move your BMI into a

567
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 3: more healthy range? And I remember her telling me to

568
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 3: like eat my bagel without butter on it, and I'm like, well,

569
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 3: then I don't.

570
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 4: Want it, like it wants a naked bagel.

571
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 3: But like, I never forget that, Like I still think

572
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 3: about that when I'm putting butter on a bagel. There

573
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 3: were many ears I would not eat a bagel, but

574
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: I definitely wasn't putting butter on it, and even in

575
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,959
Speaker 3: those efforts, I still didn't ever look like my sister.

576
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 3: I won't ever look like her, and her body has

577
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 3: also changed as has mine throughout our lives, and that

578
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 3: is something that, like the genetic part, I think gets

579
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 3: people a lot of like, well, I must be doing

580
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 3: something wrong because I'm eating what she does. I play

581
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 3: the sports that she plays, I get the same whatever,

582
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 3: So what's wrong with me?

583
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 4: Yeah?

584
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 2: That's funny. When my friends is a therapist and she

585
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 2: was like, we were having this honest conversation. I was

586
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 2: doing like an eating disorder awareness thing for one of

587
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: her groups, and she was like, well, I have a

588
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 2: question for you, but what if, like I just have

589
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 2: a preference to wear this size geens? You know. I

590
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 2: was like, can I just be really candid? She's like yeah, shoot,

591
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I don't think your body really cares

592
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 2: what your reference is. So I mean you're gonna be

593
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 2: what you know, Like, you can have a preference, but

594
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 2: you want you to really think about where that came from.

595
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 3: Well, and you can have a preference, but also to

596
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 3: get that preference, what are you going to have to

597
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 3: do to meet that?

598
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 2: And she was going to have to not eat meals

599
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 2: with her kids, and I'm like, well, I think that's

600
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: probably not a great place to be. So we really

601
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 2: have to think about, like, where do these preferences or

602
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: where do some of my desires really come from? And

603
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: was it planted from that teacher who told you not

604
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 2: to have you know butter who meant well right, and

605
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 2: she's on her their own journey in life.

606
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 4: And probably dieting at the time. My mom was a teacher.

607
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: I remember all the diets and BMI in schools. I

608
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: will say there is the strongest level of evidence that

609
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 2: we have today, randomized control trials telling us that BMI's

610
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 2: in schools are futile at best and most likely harmful,

611
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 2: and we still do it. BMI is garbage foot for

612
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 2: adults which should not be used in healthcare, which we're

613
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: seeing some chatter about that with American Medical Association. But

614
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: it is so volatile a measure in children that it

615
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,959
Speaker 2: should never be used because they're always moving and growing

616
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 2: and their height is different and then their way and

617
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: then we're talking about in prepewbescent times that type of

618
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: conversation in a school. If I could tell you how

619
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: many kids ended up in my office because of those

620
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 2: conversations in schools and ended up with on a very

621
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 2: slippery slope into a clinical eating disorder. There's a lot

622
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 2: in twenty plus years. There's a lot. And that's why

623
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: I'm like, we think, oh, you're just doing a health lesson.

624
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: I'm like, wait a minute, we had to talk about

625
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 2: this because you're gonna And the language I use at

626
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 2: my house is you will learn untruths. In school, you

627
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: will learn untruths. And so if something seems very out

628
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 2: of line with how we talk in this house, like

629
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: all bodies are good bodies. You know, food is food,

630
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 2: then let's talk about that. We really try to get

631
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:29,919
Speaker 2: ahead of it. And I'm like, if anybody ever wants

632
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 2: to weigh or measure you or ask you to log

633
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 2: your food, you and I need to talk about that

634
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: before you move on to an assignment, and I will

635
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 2: always back you up to not do that assignments your percent.

636
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 3: I don't remember a lot from sixth grade, but I

637
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 3: do remember that, and I remember also, I actually don't

638
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 3: know if this was after that or if this was before,

639
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 3: but I remember thinking that something was wrong with my body,

640
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 3: and meet like going to my mom and asking her,

641
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 3: like what probably asked her to put me on a

642
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 3: diet or something.

643
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: But we went to the doctor.

644
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: Luckily, I had an angel saint of a doctor who

645
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 3: recently retired, and it is very sad I had her

646
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 3: for my whole life. But I have like this pretty

647
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 3: vivid memory of going to her office and my mom

648
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 3: was there too, and her sitting me down and showing me.

649
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: I don't know what she showed me.

650
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 3: She could have showed me a thing she made up

651
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 3: herself and it meant nothing, but it didn't matter, but

652
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 3: she The point is what she did is she sat

653
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 3: me down and she showed me that like and told

654
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 3: me there's nothing wrong with you, Like you might look

655
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 3: different than somebody, but there.

656
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: Actually is nothing wrong with you.

657
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 3: I think I was afraid I was going to have

658
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 3: like diabetes or something because of kind of like the things.

659
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: I think.

660
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 3: We also watched What's that McDonald's documentary supersized me. We

661
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 3: watched that in that class, so I'm thinking that like,

662
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I'm going to have I'm going to

663
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 3: get diabetes at thirteen.

664
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: And blah blah blah.

665
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 3: And I just remember, thank god that was my doctor though,

666
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 3: because their doctor could have been like, well, Okay, then

667
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 3: let's do this. Let's set you up at this, Let's

668
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 3: send you to a dietitian who can put you on

669
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,720
Speaker 3: a meal plan. But she was like, look at the science.

670
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 3: She was showing me, the science that did not understand it.

671
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 3: There's nothing wrong with you. And I thought that was

672
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 3: so important.

673
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 2: So important. And listen, I will say you did get

674
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 2: that referral to a dietitian. I've been on the receiving

675
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 2: end of those referrals for a very, very long time,

676
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 2: and I can tell you and I supervised dietitians who

677
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 2: do this work too, and I'm like, listen, reassurance is

678
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 2: your greatest tool. Use it because you might be the

679
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: only healthcare professional that's gonna say you are just as

680
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 2: you should be.

681
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 4: Keep doing what you're doing. That.

682
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you've got that experience, especially after watching

683
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 2: a documentary in health class that's another dumpster fire.

684
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I get approved.

685
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 2: And that's the thing, Like teachers shouldn't be required to

686
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,399
Speaker 2: teach a lot of the things that they are now

687
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: required to teach. Both my mom and dad were teachers,

688
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 2: and like they didn't. My mom was like, I am

689
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 2: so glad I didn't have to like teach stuff like

690
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 2: that because knowing what I know now and knowing that

691
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: she was quite the dieter in those days, she was like,

692
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 2: I could have really done some damage that I somebody's

693
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 2: gonna remember me for that, you know. And she's like,

694
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: I am just so lucky that I don't have to

695
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: like hit these checkbox on this core curriculum where diet

696
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: culture is woven right in.

697
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 3: I want to read because you mentioned this. This actually

698
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 3: blew my mind. I knew a lot about why bmia's

699
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 3: trash for lack of a better word, but this just

700
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 3: really blew my mind. I'm going to read two quotes,

701
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 3: and they are in the same I'm pretty sure they're

702
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 3: the same chapter, but they weren't next to each other.

703
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 3: The first one, you said, the medical community didn't even

704
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 3: use the scientific method or medical guidelines and the decision

705
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 3: to adopt the BMI as an health indicator. They merely

706
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 3: followed the lead of a prominent insurance company that began

707
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 3: using BMI to determine rate premiums. That was wild to me.

708
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 3: Then you went on to say this is part of

709
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 3: a bigger story, but you wrote, we built an entire

710
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 3: war on bodies based on a vote, a vote on

711
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 3: making body size a disease, based not on evidence, but

712
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 3: on the bias rampant and diet culture. Doctor Maggie Lands,

713
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 3: a Texas based physician who educates other professionals about the

714
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 3: harm of weight stigma and the practice of medicine, says

715
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 3: it best if that's not the most flagrant example of

716
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 3: weight stigma derailing the entire practice of medicine, I'm not

717
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 3: sure what is. The AMA asked for evidence and they

718
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 3: flatly rejected it in favor of upholding what is proven

719
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,919
Speaker 3: to be a discriminatory and unethical model of clinical practice.

720
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 3: So people might not understand what I'm saying. Will you

721
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,479
Speaker 3: explain what that is talking about? Because this part, I

722
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 3: literally closed a book and walked into somebody's office and

723
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 3: I was like, I have to tell you about this.

724
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 2: I love this part because pre understanding diet culture me

725
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: as a dietician was part of using these terms when

726
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 2: and I'm using air quotes here because I think the

727
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 2: terms overweight and obesity are stigmatizing and they're not evidence

728
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: based and we don't know that. And when I learned it,

729
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 2: like I was like, wait a minute, what And we

730
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 2: have built an entire war on bodies, which is awful.

731
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,760
Speaker 2: On this it was on a vote. So what happened

732
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 2: In twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, American Medical Association asks their

733
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: committee that does the deep dives into the literature to

734
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 2: find the evidence to support what they're trying to do.

735
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 2: They're like, find the evidence that body side or fatness

736
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 2: is a disease. They come back, not enough evidence. We

737
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: do not recommend that. We call, using air quotes obesit

738
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 2: a disease. Okay, mind you, this is all based on BMI,

739
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 2: which was never meant for individuals ever, ever, ever, and

740
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 2: not even done from healthcare. He was a mathematician. So

741
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 2: they were like, huh no, not enough evidence.

742
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 4: Well that's okay, we'll just vote. We'll just vote.

743
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: And that's how it became a disease, and we use

744
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 2: BMI to diagnose it, which is not a diagnostic tool.

745
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 2: It is like the rabbit hole of dumpster fires.

746
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 3: Okay, let's say you take my BMI. I'm on the

747
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 3: BMI scale. It says I'm obese. Then I can be

748
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 3: diagnosed with a disease that is obesity, yes.

749
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 2: And then I can also well, whether you have the

750
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 2: BMI or not push all kinds of drugs and interventions

751
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 2: as well, and then charge you for it whether you wanted.

752
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 4: It or not.

753
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 3: I have no words because one the implication of the

754
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 3: stigma of it, just like the words obesity and overweight

755
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 3: and all that.

756
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: My body functions pretty well.

757
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 3: I wouldn't go to I mean I would go to

758
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 3: physical as and if something's wrong, I go get that

759
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 3: checked out.

760
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 1: Right now, I don't need to go to get a physical.

761
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 3: But let's say my physical comes along and I go,

762
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 3: and that's what I check in on it. It'd be

763
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 3: in my scale. They can then say, there is something

764
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 3: wrong with you. Here are some medications you need to

765
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 3: take these.

766
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: Yes, and if I didn't know any better, I would

767
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: take them.

768
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 2: You'd be like, oh, well my doctor said, or my

769
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 2: nurse practitioner. Listen, I've had a nurse practitioner.

770
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 4: This kills me.

771
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 2: Sit down with one of my clients who has a

772
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,479
Speaker 2: history of needing disorder, sit down beside her and go like, hey,

773
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 2: look at this, look at what I saw on TikTok,

774
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 2: and then goes to like try to get her to

775
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 2: go on weight loss medication. I mean, so many ethical

776
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: violations here, not to mention just really lazy, poor medical practice.

777
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 2: So this is where I'm like, my I love internal

778
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: family systems and so and I do a lot of

779
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 2: supervision around that, and this is where like my advocate

780
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 2: is coming up and it's super mad to take care

781
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: of my client. But yeah, it's like if we knew,

782
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 2: like you don't even have.

783
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 4: To do that that way to check.

784
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 2: I have a new doctor's appointment tomorrow' meeting a new

785
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 2: doctor and I already in my mind know that I'm

786
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 2: gonna be like no, no, thank you and get the gatekeeper,

787
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,439
Speaker 2: which the where's something gets you from the waiting room

788
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 2: to the to the office. You know, might say, well

789
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:34,720
Speaker 2: you have to do it. I'm like, actually, I don't.

790
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 2: You can write refused in that box and that should

791
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 2: be okay, you know, so you don't, And like I

792
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 2: give people kind of like here's the dialogue, and this

793
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 2: is really hard. But also I live in a body

794
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 2: that people probably aren't gonna then dismiss me for that, right,

795
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 2: So that's like I have a level of body privilege

796
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: where I can do that, and if I do that,

797
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 2: I might make it safer for someone who doesn't feel

798
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 2: afe to do that. But if we knew, like one,

799
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 2: the BMI was never meant to be used. And if

800
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 2: we're like, well, it's just what we have, I'm like, no,

801
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 2: it's not what we have because it was never meant

802
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 2: to be used. How we use it, it's garbage and

803
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 2: it harms people. And also the evidence suggestsic misclassifies seventy

804
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 2: four to seventy five million Americans every single year is

805
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 2: either healthy or unhealthy, and really they're not and you

806
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 2: can live. And that takes us to here's my air quotes,

807
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 2: because I do not like the stigmatizing terms OBC and overweight,

808
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 2: but the OBCD paradox where people are like I just

809
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 2: can't believe that somebody in a larger body can have

810
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 2: all these normal lab values. You know it is and

811
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 2: it's called the paradox because we don't believe it. That

812
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: is weight stigma and bias and action harming people, Like

813
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 2: my BMI is not in the normal range, and I

814
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: am normal whatever that means, and you know, my labs

815
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 2: are great. I am lucky enough to have like an

816
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 2: able body and I can hike and I can move

817
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 2: and I can do a lot of things. So I

818
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 2: eliminate that from our conversation. So I can get true

819
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 2: health care because many health care providers have been trained

820
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 2: to offer weight care first.

821
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 3: Right, well, because let's say you are in the normal range,

822
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 3: or actually, no, let's say this. Let's say you're not

823
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 3: in the normal range, and then whatever you have going

824
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 3: on goes straight to your weight. But your weight is

825
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 3: not the problem. But then that just keeps totally that's

826
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 3: what we're focusing on. And then you need to do

827
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 3: these things and take this medication or eat this food

828
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 3: or do that, and it actually causes you more harm

829
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 3: and the actual problem doesn't get helped.

830
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and people get misdiagnosed, and like I have a

831
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: couple of stories about this, Like I have a client

832
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 2: who got misdiagnosed and ignored for years, like lose weight,

833
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 2: lose weight, lose weight, lose weight. She had an iron deficiency.

834
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:53,479
Speaker 2: It could have been fixed so easily if someone would

835
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 2: have just given her health care instead of weight care.

836
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: And that is that's malpractice in my opinion. Like, I

837
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 2: know I'm putting some big words out there, but like

838
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 2: in some heavy stuff, but we have to realize what's

839
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 2: happening in these safe places, because we're all being harmed

840
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 2: because of it.

841
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 3: And I think what you said too stuck with me

842
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 3: about you refusing to be wayed at the doctor's office

843
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 3: also helps other people who don't feel.

844
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: Safe enough to do that to do that. Yeah, and

845
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: there will be pushedback.

846
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 3: I've had a doctor say some thing that they shouldn't

847
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 3: want a doctor the gatekeeper think she.

848
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: Was a nurse say something.

849
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 3: She If she would have said that to somebody in

850
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 3: an active eating disorder, oh my god, she would not

851
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 3: have known what she was doing. Luckily I was able

852
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 3: to go process that with somebody immediately. But that is

853
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 3: something that I think also I need to be able

854
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 3: to go back and give her that information of like,

855
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 3: this was harmful and this is why, because she probably

856
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 3: has no idea what she say.

857
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 2: The very thing, very same thing happened to me from

858
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 2: a nurse practitioner who like, argued over my weight. I

859
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 2: was there for a weight slip. I'm like, I'm pretty

860
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 2: sure my veins spoking. My vein doesn't require weight check.

861
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 2: And just so you know, the only thing.

862
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 4: That requires a weight check.

863
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 2: There are a few diagnoses that they monitor fluid shifts,

864
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 2: and you will know if you have one. It might

865
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 2: be conges, a heart failure, pregnancy. It can be done blind,

866
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 2: so you don't have to if the numbers bother you,

867
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 2: and then anesthesia, please Lord, don't guess you know, like

868
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 2: get the number then and it can still be done blind.

869
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 2: But about ninety percent of adult medical visits do not

870
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 2: require a wait check for care.

871
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 3: That's probably a mind blowing fact for a lot of people. Okay,

872
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 3: I want to end with this, and it's right online

873
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 3: with kind of what we're talking about. But you say

874
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 3: weight is not a behavior. This is a statement I

875
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 3: make often in my office. We've been led to believe

876
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 3: it's possible to control our weight, but many factors influence

877
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 3: our weight. While we can put a stop to certain

878
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:11,720
Speaker 3: behaviors for example smoking and excessive alcohol consumption, we can't

879
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: change our body size and expect it to stay that way.

880
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 3: That's an important part our divinely created bodies want to

881
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 3: be what they were designed to be, regardless of cultural expectations.

882
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 3: Explain weight is not a behavior, because I bet a

883
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 3: lot of people are like, huh.

884
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 2: It's a number on a scale that changes all the time.

885
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 2: It's a gravity measure and that we cannot control that.

886
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 2: We can diet and change it temporarily. Note ey percent

887
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 2: of that comes back usually plus more at the three

888
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 2: to five year mark. But which is also not something

889
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: that we are told in healthcare when somebody says you

890
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 2: should diet, like, oh, you're gonna be worse off than

891
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 2: three five years, we don't say that. But weight is

892
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: not a behavior. A behavior is like, hey, are you

893
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 2: getting good sleep? If not, let's get in Let's get

894
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 2: in bed earlier. That's a behavior like something you're actually doing. Weight,

895
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 2: You're not doing. Weight is just a measure of the

896
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 2: mass of your body, which is fluid, it's always changing.

897
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 2: If it's not, then we're really doing some pretty crazy

898
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 2: micromanaging that could probably is likely disordered. And so the

899
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 2: other thing, like another behavior like dieting, is a behavior,

900
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 2: okay that like eliminating breakfast, like skipping meals, those are disordered.

901
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 2: But behaviors, you know, like cholesterol. Cholesterol is not a behavior.

902
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 2: It is a number that gets measured and the behaviors.

903
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 4: May or may not change that.

904
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 2: So weight is not a behavior. And I am in

905
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 2: the business of behavior change that I've learned in my

906
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 2: unlearning and relearning that align with a person's values and

907
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,879
Speaker 2: lived experience. It is not what I want for them.

908
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 2: It is what they want for them, and I want

909
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 2: to keep them out of harm's way. So if they're

910
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 2: come to see me, they know I'm wait neutral, so

911
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 2: that we're not going to chase a number on the scale.

912
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,359
Speaker 2: The other thing is if we realize, okay, wait, it's

913
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 2: not a behavior. So all this time, I've been chasing

914
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 2: something that's not that chasable and it does not bring

915
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 2: me closer to health if that's what I want to

916
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 2: be closer to, But something that might be closer get

917
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 2: me closer to health. Are those behaviors which are like, okay, well,

918
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 2: if let's talk about things that actually reduce mortality risk?

919
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 2: Connection number one more than smoking, more than the trash

920
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 2: be am I, but more than connection? So what do

921
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 2: I have good relationships? Am I seeking therapy if I

922
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 2: need it to help me make better relationships or hold

923
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 2: on to the relationships that are important to me? So

924
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,439
Speaker 2: human connection moving your body in joyful ways if that's

925
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 2: accessible to you, or moving your body because it brings

926
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 2: you connection. You might hate walking, but you like spending

927
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 2: time with your friends, so you go with them, you know,

928
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 2: getting good sleep, lowering your screen time, decreasing your social

929
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 2: media usage, if that's something that you know harms your health,

930
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 2: those are all things that are health behaviors instead of

931
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 2: like this number, that is not a behavior, and you

932
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 2: can improve your health, your mental and physical health, without

933
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 2: ever ever, ever stepping on the scale. And that's what

934
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 2: I want people to hear when they're talking to a

935
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 2: health provider, is like, I don't care what your weight is.

936
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 2: I care how you are caring for yourself.

937
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 3: And what I was thinking as you were saying that

938
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,760
Speaker 3: is the really hard thing to wrap your head around.

939
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 3: And this is hard for me too because I was

940
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 3: so immersed in it, is that we have to be

941
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:03,479
Speaker 3: aware of the lenses that we are seeing everything through.

942
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 3: And even though I know that I don't want to

943
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,919
Speaker 3: be living in diet culture and I want to think

944
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 3: certain things, I still see the world through a lens

945
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 3: that I have been brought up in that says thin

946
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 3: is good, larger bodies are bad, and that I think,

947
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 3: going back to the Church and all of that, if

948
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 3: we're taught that looking this way is pleasing to God,

949
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 3: and doing this is not pleasing to God, and fasting

950
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 3: is pleasing to God, and cutting all that kind of stuff,

951
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 3: we have to be aware when we are wrestling with

952
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 3: this kind of stuff that Oh yeah, I keep telling

953
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 3: myself the lie that like thin is good, but I

954
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 3: have to remember that thin it's a neutral statement. Therefore,

955
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 3: if I actually look at my health, I can now

956
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 3: remove that from it. Yeah, that is something that is

957
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 3: and I don't even know if I explaining it right way.

958
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 3: But it's so hard to wrap our heads around how

959
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 3: I can just focus on these behaviors that are either

960
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 3: good for me or maybe not so great for me,

961
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 3: versus how my the look of my body responds to behaviors.

962
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 3: That is so hard for people because they're like, well,

963
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 3: I did the things that you said, and I still

964
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 3: my body still looks like this. I'm like, well, why

965
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 3: does that matter? Well, because I'm not supposed to look

966
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 3: like this. Who says who says so, and so says

967
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 3: this guy on the TV says whatever, like says my

968
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 3: boyfriend from sixth grade. It's like, okay, well do you

969
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 3: believe that yes or no?

970
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:42,360
Speaker 1: Why?

971
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 3: I think a lot of times when we rest, when

972
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 3: we get down to the bottom of that, it's hard

973
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 3: to answer that why.

974
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 2: It's like, well, I don't know, well, because all that

975
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 2: because that sixth grade teacher that told you, you know,

976
00:52:55,520 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 2: like because you learned it in the safe places, probably

977
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 2: from before you could even speak. Yeah, so we have learned.

978
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 2: Little seeds have been planted our entire lives, and one

979
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 2: of them. I'll have clients that were like, why has

980
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 2: this taken so long? I'm like, well, you've lived in

981
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 2: die culture for forty years. It's going to take a

982
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 2: minute for us to do some do some work, you know.

983
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 2: And I was kind of a write down notes when

984
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 2: we're talking and there's just so much there. You're right

985
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 2: like that part of you was like, but what about?

986
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 4: But what about?

987
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 2: Right? Of course, of course, we say, but what about

988
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 2: because we've learned these things as if they're truth without

989
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 2: questioning our entire lives, because we trusted our healthcare providers,

990
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 2: we trust our pastor, we trust our Sunday school teacher,

991
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 2: we trust our teachers, we trust our parents, our aunts, whoever,

992
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 2: our coaches, and that is wonderful. And sometimes things are

993
00:53:55,000 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 2: said that calls harm. So a couple things like you say,

994
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 2: you know, you have to think about that.

995
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 4: I do too.

996
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 2: We live here, we all live here. We could be

997
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 2: aware of diet culture, but we still live here. It

998
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that we're going to like every day be

999
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 2: like haygarl, you're so fine. You know, like that'd be

1000
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 2: great if we But sometimes it's like you have to

1001
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 2: be like, wow, that really got me.

1002
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 4: That really hurts.

1003
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 2: I'm really triggered to like engage in behaviors that I

1004
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 2: know don't align with my value of just being who

1005
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 2: I am, being who guy, celebrating my own divine design.

1006
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean that you're not going to struggle.

1007
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 2: It means that you know that you don't have to

1008
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 2: take that back up.

1009
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1010
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 2: And the other thing is like we talk a lot

1011
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 2: about health, but I want to also put out the

1012
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 2: ear that like health is defined individually, and health as

1013
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:54,320
Speaker 2: this world defines it is not is not offered to everyone.

1014
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 2: And that does not mean that someone is unworthy. It

1015
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 2: does not mean that someone's more worthy. But like we

1016
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,720
Speaker 2: have to be careful with like the word health because

1017
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 2: policy doesn't get to define it for us. Health for

1018
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 2: some of my clients might mean there be other week

1019
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 2: medication to help with that. It might mean seeing less

1020
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 2: of certain people. It might be for seeing ourselves to

1021
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 2: see more of other people to get the connection. When

1022
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 2: we want to isolate, it might mean going making doctor's

1023
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 2: appointments that you really dislike but you really need to go. Like,

1024
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 2: health is defined at the individual level, and if something

1025
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 2: sounds like gosh, I should be doing that, we compare

1026
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 2: that to just remember that you get to decide, and

1027
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 2: you also don't owe anybody health. Like we also think

1028
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:49,359
Speaker 2: that we always have to be chasing something. I had

1029
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 2: one client. He's great, he's an older guy, he's doing great,

1030
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,760
Speaker 2: his labs are fine. I mean, he's lived a long time.

1031
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 2: And he's like, well, my doctor said I should maybe

1032
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 2: focus on eating less of this color foods, which, first

1033
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 2: of all, there's no evidence of that all if you

1034
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 2: get if you get a recommendation like that and be like, uh,

1035
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 2: that's crazy, crazy talk, not science. But I was like,

1036
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 2: you know what, what if it's okay for you to

1037
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 2: just be okay? You don't always have to be chasing something.

1038
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, just be okay. And he was like, I

1039
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:21,439
Speaker 2: never thought of that. I'm like, of course you didn't,

1040
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 2: because we're always being told, oh, here's the next thing

1041
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 2: or the next best thing. But it's okay to just be.

1042
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 3: That's a constant battle. I actually did an episode about

1043
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,799
Speaker 3: that recently, where like, where's the line between accepting who

1044
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 3: you are and striving to be your best self. Like

1045
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 3: sometimes you just have to say, like I'm good. I

1046
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 3: probably could go there, but I actually like it here.

1047
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 1: Just fine. But yeah, you're right, we don't get offered.

1048
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 3: Nobody says that your doctor's does ever say that they're

1049
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 3: like you could be better.

1050
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're like, you're doing great. And that's that tool,

1051
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 2: that reassurance tool of like you know what, if you

1052
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: want to eat more vegetables, that's great. Yeah, if you

1053
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 2: feel like you're doing okay, you don't always have to

1054
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 2: be chasing something and that's great. Go have coffee with

1055
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 2: a friend and get some connection this week. And that's

1056
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 2: what I would love for people to say, Or I

1057
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 2: would love for health care providers to say, hey, do

1058
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 2: you have enough money for food? Do you have food security?

1059
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 2: Do you live in a safe environment? Like those are

1060
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 2: questions that I'd really like us to be asking, not

1061
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 2: like what diet are you going to choose to make

1062
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 2: me a micone go lower?

1063
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: You talked about that. Everything you said was great, but

1064
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:37,439
Speaker 1: like you talked about how.

1065
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 3: The nervous system affects our bodies and how safety impacts

1066
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 3: our bodies and how they work and how nobody's.

1067
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: Asking those questions.

1068
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 4: Nobody's asking and.

1069
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 3: Then we're confused why their diet didn't change the problem

1070
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 3: that they're happy.

1071
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we've been programmed to think that food will

1072
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 2: fix everything, Yes, and like food is a very small

1073
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 2: variable and a very very multifaceted system of well being.

1074
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you.

1075
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 3: I so appreciate one you writing this book, but also

1076
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 3: this conversation and obviously the work that you're doing with

1077
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 3: your clients too. It's wild to think you live in

1078
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 3: this world, but it's it's wild, and it happens all

1079
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 3: the time because I get I'm sure you get clients

1080
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 3: that come from other dietitians. I get clients that come

1081
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 3: from other therapists, and I'm like, somebody said that to you,

1082
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh, okay, I gotta remember. Like I

1083
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 3: kind of sometimes think I live in a bubble of

1084
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:37,439
Speaker 3: this like fighting the diet culture, but that's actually very

1085
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 3: small percentage of people, it is.

1086
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 2: And I do that too, Like I'm always and this

1087
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 2: is the introduction of the book where I'm like, hand

1088
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 2: on my heart, like I am so sorry that harm

1089
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 2: came to you and what should have been a safe place.

1090
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you so much for this. Where can

1091
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 1: people find you and then also find this book?

1092
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 2: You can find me. My website is Leslie She'll I'm

1093
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 2: usually on Insta if I'm on the socials, it's also

1094
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 2: It's just Leslie Shilling and the book is everywhere books

1095
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 2: are sold. Feed yourself and if you get it on

1096
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 2: audible or an audio version, I read it. So if

1097
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, I like her voice, then great. If

1098
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 2: you're like I don't like her voice too Southern for me,

1099
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 2: then get the book.

1100
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 1: Oh I love that you read it. Did you enjoy

1101
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: doing that?

1102
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 4: I did?

1103
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 3: You know?

1104
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 4: It was a lot of fun.

1105
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 2: And there are times where I'm write I like reading

1106
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 2: what I wrote like, I was like wow, sometimes you

1107
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 2: can write things super like poignant, but when you say

1108
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 2: it like I imagine saying it to a client and

1109
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 2: tearing up, or I've never been so proud of anything

1110
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 2: in my life other than my kid, and you know that.

1111
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 2: Like some people are like, oh, I can't read it,

1112
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 2: or won't you know read a book after but I'm like,

1113
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 2: I felt like, oh, why this is my only shot?

1114
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 4: You know?

1115
00:59:56,280 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 2: So I put everything everything I could to help free limit.

1116
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate. It'll be on my shelf in my

1117
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 1: office for sure.

1118
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you so much.