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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Coarcklay and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube on.

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Speaker 2: The Tuesday edition. Yet it's only Tuesday.

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Speaker 3: Ballots of Power here on Bloomberg Radio on the satellite

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Speaker 3: radio channel one twenty one. In YouTube, search Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 3: News Live. We'll meet you there. Keep the live stream

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Speaker 3: up and running. What the next three days, We've got

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Speaker 3: special programming in place. Today Tomorrow is Liberation Day, as

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump calls it. Cue the countdown clocks. It's the

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Speaker 3: day before, and we don't know a lot more today

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Speaker 3: than we did yesterday. If you ask anyone watching the markets,

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Speaker 3: like Charlie Pellett, he'll tell you that although we seem

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Speaker 3: to be feeling good for the heck of it, it is

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Speaker 3: pretty nice out, after all. Give me nice out tomorrow

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Speaker 3: the Rose Garden as well, and on the car dealer lots,

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Speaker 3: this has been an interesting part of the stories. You

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Speaker 3: buy a car in last couple of days, good luck

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Speaker 3: finding one depending on where you are. As we now

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Speaker 3: hear more about the front loading on the consumer side,

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Speaker 3: GM Hyundai both reporting big jumps and auto sales ahead

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Speaker 3: of this. GM deliveries up seventeen percent first quarter, fifteen

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Speaker 3: percent gain in retail volume, Ford retail sales up, Toyota

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Speaker 3: slight growth in the first three months of the year

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Speaker 3: because well, god knows, anything could happen, and Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: reminded us of that when he appeared alongside Kid Rock

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Speaker 3: in full rock regalia behind the desk in the Oval

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Speaker 3: office last night.

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Speaker 4: Listen, they're reciprocal, so whenever they charge us, we charge them.

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Speaker 4: But with being nicer than they were, the numbers will

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Speaker 4: be lower than what they've been charging us, and in

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Speaker 4: some cases may be substantially lower. But we sort of

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Speaker 4: have a world obligation perhaps, but we're going to be

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Speaker 4: very nice, relatively speaking, we're going to be very kind.

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Speaker 4: I'd like to have a chance of doing better actually

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Speaker 4: with the tariffs. It can actually help them in a

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Speaker 4: certain way, and I think a lot of them will

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Speaker 4: drop their tariffs.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minute, we're going to be very kind. You

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Speaker 3: heard that right. In some cases, terras may be substantially

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Speaker 3: lower maybe we're in for something different here.

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Speaker 2: This is curious.

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Speaker 3: Laura Davison covers this all day and helps to steer

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Speaker 3: our coverage in Washington as editor of Bloomberg's Politics team.

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Speaker 3: Great to see you, welcome back. We have no idea

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Speaker 3: what's going to happen here tomorrow. It feels like then

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Speaker 3: we did yesterday.

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Speaker 2: What do we know?

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Speaker 3: However, there's a Rose Garden event and it's going to

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Speaker 3: start after the closing bell.

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Speaker 5: It'll start at four o'clock. That's the stated time he'll

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Speaker 5: come out to the Rose Garden and speak for you know,

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Speaker 5: Trump typically speaks for forty five minutes to an hour

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Speaker 5: when it comes out, he'll likely take some questions, but

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Speaker 5: we don't know exactly what this will look like.

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Speaker 6: How these things have played out in the past.

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Speaker 5: Is Trump has come out, he's sort of made some big,

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Speaker 5: sweeping pronouncements. He's maybe gotten a little bit into the specifics.

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Speaker 5: But then there's some sort of there's some sort of

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Speaker 5: call for reporters to go and hear more about here

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Speaker 5: what the details are and the thing, particularly on this one,

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Speaker 5: because there could be a different rate for every country,

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Speaker 5: or different rates for different groups of countries. People are

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Speaker 5: waiting to see what is the actual paper the plan.

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Speaker 5: Something will need to hit the Federal Register to make

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Speaker 5: this important. If you don't know what the Federal Register is,

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Speaker 5: consider yourself lucky. But this is basically the big book

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Speaker 5: of all of the federal regulations that are coming out

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Speaker 5: any single day, So all eyes are going to be

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Speaker 5: on that and that will potentially, you know, move markets

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Speaker 5: overseas and futures markets. As you know, everyone is digesting

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Speaker 5: this in real time.

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Speaker 2: So this will be interesting.

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Speaker 3: Then we could be in a world where we've got

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Speaker 3: a news conference happening with Donald Trump, we're writing and

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Speaker 3: reporting off of his words before we actually get a

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Speaker 3: chance to read the executive order.

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 5: That's very right, and that's probably why we've seen a

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Speaker 5: little bit of this of the time shift here. This

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Speaker 5: is going to likely be happening after market's closed, potentially

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Speaker 5: prevent some of these big wild swings that could be happening.

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Speaker 6: Of case he's misinterpreted, somehow misinterpreted.

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Speaker 5: Trump is known to be a bombastic and not super

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Speaker 5: precise in his language, so he could say something that

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Speaker 5: ends up being not exactly what's in the actual text

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Speaker 5: of the order.

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Speaker 3: What do we think we know and by the way,

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Speaker 3: you claw me back when you need to hear reciprocal tariffs.

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Speaker 3: He keeps saying that we're going to get some form

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Speaker 3: of reciprocity tomorrow. Auto tariffs he's talked about, right, twenty

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Speaker 3: five percent, we expect that tomorrow.

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Speaker 5: We expect that tomorrow goes into effect. They start collecting

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Speaker 5: essentially on April.

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Speaker 3: Third, understood, so we'll have maybe a box to check there.

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Speaker 3: He's talked about a lot of other tarriffs though, as well,

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Speaker 3: when it comes to different sectors chips for instance, is

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Speaker 3: that still something that they're crafting or will we hear

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Speaker 3: about that right now?

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Speaker 5: We don't believe that that's what'scoming. He has indicated several

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Speaker 5: times that those sectoral tariffs are pharma on semiconductors, on copper.

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Speaker 5: Those are things that would be coming later. He's reiterated

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Speaker 5: that he's committed to those, but that's not this week,

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Speaker 5: at least right now, not on this week plan.

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Speaker 2: What's already in effect.

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Speaker 3: We need to remind ourselves and our listeners of this too.

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Speaker 3: We've got China and a couple layers of China tariffs

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Speaker 3: already in place.

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Speaker 5: We've got twenty percent on China, it was a ten

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Speaker 5: percent and then a second ten percent. We have the

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Speaker 5: twenty five percent on Mexico and Canada with an exemption

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Speaker 5: that's been in place for UMCA compliant goods, which is

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Speaker 5: a lot of and that's also set to expire this

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Speaker 5: week as well. So that's another well, that's the pillar

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Speaker 5: mark potentially again we don't know. So there's a lot

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Speaker 5: of moving pieces. Steal an aluminum, steal an aluminum that's

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Speaker 5: been into effect, twenty five percent on that that's already there,

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Speaker 5: And the thinking in the White House right now is

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Speaker 5: that these are all going to be stacked tariffs. So

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Speaker 5: if you're China and there's a twenty percent tariff on

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Speaker 5: you already, you could be seeing yet another twenty percent.

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Speaker 5: Or if you're South Korea, you export a lot of

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Speaker 5: cars to the US and that twenty five percent auto

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Speaker 5: tariff is going to hit you, you could again be

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Speaker 5: seeing another percentage added on top of that.

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Speaker 6: So these could be some really big swing seeing.

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump has talked about as well secondary tariffs, not

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Speaker 3: secondary sanctions, but tariffs on Venezuelan oil and Russian oil,

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Speaker 3: but those were kind of veiled threats in truth social

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Speaker 3: posts does that become part of the story tomorrow.

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Speaker 5: Again another unknown, but something to watch that he's been

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Speaker 5: very you know, become very fond of this phrase. Secondary

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Speaker 5: tariffs is a way to sort of, you know, punish behavior,

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Speaker 5: you know, countries that.

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Speaker 6: Are that are using Venezuelan oil.

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Speaker 5: All of this is to say that nobody knows what's happening.

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Speaker 5: Even at the White House.

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Speaker 6: They're still debating.

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Speaker 5: We could even see Trump alluded to it in his

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Speaker 5: comments earlier on Monday that he wants to be quote nice.

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Speaker 6: Originally, they envisioned this big plan.

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Speaker 5: That they would take all the tariffs that, you know,

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Speaker 5: an average rate of all the tariffs that a certain

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Speaker 5: country has, look at other things like value added taxes

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Speaker 5: and digital service taxes and other trade barriers, and come

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Speaker 5: up with some calculation and say, okay, for you know,

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Speaker 5: every country, here's a different number. That was going to

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Speaker 5: be exceptionally difficult to do. And they're sort of at

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Speaker 5: the point where they're realizing they don't.

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Speaker 6: Really have time.

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Speaker 5: So we may see a much more dialed back plan

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Speaker 5: of saying, okay, certain countries are you know, there's just

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Speaker 5: either a ten percent across the board, which is what

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Speaker 5: he talked about on the campaign trail, or we could

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Speaker 5: see countries grouped into different you know, sort of what

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Speaker 5: Trump uses the worst offenders to, some of the countries

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Speaker 5: he wants to be more friendly to, so they have

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Speaker 5: a lower percentage. If you're a country that he's been

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Speaker 5: more adversarial of.

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Speaker 2: Do you get a higre a novel?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's really important. That's news because we're trying to

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Speaker 3: figure out what this means. Right as he just said,

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Speaker 3: in some cases may be substantially lower. Is that what

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Speaker 3: he's referring to? Or could that also involve maybe phone

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Speaker 3: calls that are coming in from world leaders in the

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Speaker 3: next twenty four hours.

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Speaker 6: It could also be about those phone calls that are

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Speaker 6: coming in.

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Speaker 5: But the Boomberg Economics has done a ton of great

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Speaker 5: work sort of parsing out sort of what these numbers

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Speaker 5: could be, sort of about a maximalist approach and a

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Speaker 5: minimalist approach. Trump and his team are looking at those

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Speaker 5: sorts of numbers and saying, Okay, if we were to

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Speaker 5: include all of these, we could be at fifty sixty,

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Speaker 5: seventy percent. I think they realized that there's a huge

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Speaker 5: market reaction and having numbers like in the ten to

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Speaker 5: twenty five percent range, which is kind of where Trump

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Speaker 5: has been. Those are a little bit more palatable and

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Speaker 5: give you a little bit.

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Speaker 2: More negotiating fascinating.

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Speaker 3: We've heard some other possible caveats, at least suggested caveats,

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Speaker 3: for instance, from automakers the low cost auto parts. Is

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Speaker 3: that something the White House is entertaining or just part

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Speaker 3: of the noise going into this.

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Speaker 5: He's certainly still taking some meetings that we reported on,

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Speaker 5: and there are calls coming in, you know, and as

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Speaker 5: the car dealers are reporting that, you know, their cars

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Speaker 5: are flying off the shelves, you know, because it's not

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Speaker 5: you know, they're able to accept. Okay, if we have

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Speaker 5: these import taxes on cars, we can work with that.

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Speaker 5: But when it's all the low car, low cost parts

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Speaker 5: that go into all the cars that are made here,

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Speaker 5: suddenly that becomes One audio executive described it as sort

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Speaker 5: of just like an industry killer interest and they see

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Speaker 5: that as kind of the biggest pain point and sort

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Speaker 5: of the most acute crisis right now.

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Speaker 3: Wow, you heard anything about the optics tomorrow? I mean,

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Speaker 3: he's got Kid Rock. Did you see that outfit Kid

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Speaker 3: Rock was wearing? By the way, how do I get

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Speaker 3: one of those I don't really mean that, but Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump knows how to seize the show business. How does

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Speaker 3: he do that Tomorrow? If something is billing as Liberation Day,

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Speaker 3: is Kid Rock going to have the band set up

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Speaker 3: in the Rose Garden?

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Speaker 2: What are we fireworks involved?

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Speaker 6: There will almost.

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Speaker 5: Certainly be some amazing visual element. This is the first

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Speaker 5: Rose Garden events of his second term. That's almost no

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Speaker 5: surprise that he is sort of saving this in this

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Speaker 5: big grand space, which by the way, he's remarked that

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Speaker 5: he wants to pave over and have as a patio

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Speaker 5: a lamar a lago.

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Speaker 6: So this may be the last Rose Garden event we'll see.

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Speaker 3: But could we show up tomorrow when it's paved like

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Speaker 3: they did that overnight.

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Speaker 5: Unlikely is unlikely, but it's going to be something We're

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Speaker 5: going to see Cabinet secretaries there. This is going to

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Speaker 5: be If you are Who's who and Trump World, you're

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Speaker 5: going to be at this event tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: If they pave the Rose Garden, we can get the

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Speaker 3: charcoal rill out there and really party a little bit.

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Speaker 2: You're going to be there for this. You're going to

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Speaker 2: be here with us.

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Speaker 6: I'll be behind my terminal.

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Speaker 3: Fantastic, exactly where we want Laura Davison to be great,

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Speaker 3: to have you back, don't be a stranger, of course.

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg Politics editor Laura Davison with us on the fastest

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Speaker 3: show in politics as we wind up the band here

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Speaker 3: the day before Liberation Day.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power Podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 7: We come back to the same question, Joe, which is,

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Speaker 7: what will the impact be not just on inflation, on prices,

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Speaker 7: but also on growth if those higher prices make consumers

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Speaker 7: bulk and suddenly mean demand goes down.

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Speaker 3: Well, and that's a pretty big question when the entire

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Speaker 3: sort of Trump economic approach is based on growth by

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Speaker 3: way of tax cuts that incidentally they're going to start

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Speaker 3: working on for real this week in the Senate.

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Speaker 2: And it's hard to have both.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and it certainly puts policy makers in a hard position,

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Speaker 7: not just fiscal policy makers who are assessing the tax picture,

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Speaker 7: but monetary policy makers as well, who have to figure

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Speaker 7: out what exactly is likely to happen to the US

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Speaker 7: economy as a result of these tariff decisions. We actually

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Speaker 7: heard from the Richmond Fed President Tom Barkin about the

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Speaker 7: impact we could see it having earlier today.

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Speaker 8: This is what he said.

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Speaker 9: Obviously, some amount of that will pass through into prices,

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Speaker 9: and so that will be inflationary, and maybe it'll be

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Speaker 9: short term, maybe long term, we'll see. But I'm just

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Speaker 9: as interest in what's going to happen on the employment side,

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Speaker 9: because if you're a company that raises prices, the demand

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Speaker 9: curve would suggests your volume is going to go down,

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Speaker 9: and if you're a company that can't raise prices, then

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Speaker 9: your margin goes down. In either case, you're going to

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Speaker 9: start working on operational efficiencies and that means headcount.

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Speaker 7: So we want to get more on this now and

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Speaker 7: turn to Liz Pancotti. She's managing director of policy and

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Speaker 7: Advocacy at the Groundwork Collaborative and she's here with us

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Speaker 7: in our Washington, d C.

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Speaker 8: Studio.

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Speaker 7: So Liz, great to have you. Welcome back to Balance

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Speaker 7: of Power. We just heard Barkin. They're talking about really

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Speaker 7: the risks to both sides of the Fed's dual mandate

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Speaker 7: that this is not just an inflation concern but a

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Speaker 7: labor market and growth oriented concern as well. Given the

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Speaker 7: limited information with which we're working right now, and hopefully

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Speaker 7: we'll have more in hand tomorrow, which one of those

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Speaker 7: risks do you think is greater?

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Speaker 10: I think they are both equally great. And we heard

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Speaker 10: the Fed last week say everything but the S word, right,

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Speaker 10: everything but stagflation. They said they are expecting higher unemployment,

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Speaker 10: slower growth, faster inflation. When you put those three things

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Speaker 10: together in a mixing bowl, they usually bake up into

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Speaker 10: the same thing. And so I think the FED is

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Speaker 10: taking very seriously the balance of all of these risks.

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Speaker 10: But given the tool that the President is using to

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Speaker 10: prod all of those things, the Fed's toolbox is limited

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Speaker 10: to respond to it, and simply moving around the FED

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Speaker 10: funds rate isn't quite you know, the right screwdriver or

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Speaker 10: whatever to deal with the ramifications of that.

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Speaker 3: Well, how much of a picture do you think the

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Speaker 3: President's going to paint tomorrow as opposed to, you know,

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Speaker 3: a partial image of what's to come. Because there was

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Speaker 3: there was great hope for a clarifying moment I'm not

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Speaker 3: sure we can find anyone who expects that.

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Speaker 10: I just heard, you know, reporting from the White House

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Speaker 10: that the Press Secretary said that he is crafting the

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Speaker 10: perfect TAREF policy and that everything will be clear tomorrow

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Speaker 10: and that they expect certainty from markets tomorrow. You know,

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Speaker 10: it's one thing to move your announcement back to when

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Speaker 10: markets close. It for ps, it gives you a little

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Speaker 10: bit of a buffer of what markets can respond to.

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Speaker 10: And so he has said that those tariffs will go

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Speaker 10: into place immediately, no twenty four hour, forty eight hour

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Speaker 10: month long lead time. And so even for you know,

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Speaker 10: the folks who have to enforce these tariffs at our

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Speaker 10: ports and borders, they have to have certainty to be

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Speaker 10: able to levy those tariffs. So hopefully something will be

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Speaker 10: written down, but I'm not confident. Given that the President

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Speaker 10: has you know, moved from just reciprocal to twenty percent blanket,

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Speaker 10: to different policies for different countries, it's very difficult to

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Speaker 10: do that in you know what twenty four hour period.

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Speaker 7: Well, and so if this is immediate, what will the

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Speaker 7: impact be on businesses who have tried to I guess

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Speaker 7: in advance import what they can make investment decisions according

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Speaker 7: to what their best anticipation of is.

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Speaker 6: Could be happening.

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Speaker 7: If this is immediate, how how immediate will the impact

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Speaker 7: be on their actual supply chains if they haven't had

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Speaker 7: a chance to fully reorient them or to stockpile enough

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Speaker 7: to last them for a while.

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Speaker 10: We have seen for a couple of months that companies

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Speaker 10: were expecting something on the tariff front, and so they

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Speaker 10: have been stockpiling a bit. You saw that in the

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Speaker 10: ISM report this morning. You saw on endurable goods a

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Speaker 10: week ago. We have started to see companies and even

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Speaker 10: in their you know, annual earnings calls which have been

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Speaker 10: going on the last few weeks, they have said, we

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Speaker 10: are putting orders in trying to get ahead of these things.

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Speaker 10: As you know, a month ago, he tried, you know,

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Speaker 10: put in place the Mexico Canada tariffs and then rolled back.

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Speaker 8: Or paused many of those for a month.

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Speaker 10: So for these companies, it's very difficult to have any

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Speaker 10: sense of certainty. For most supply chains, the things, the

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Speaker 10: orders they are placing right now will likely not hit

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Speaker 10: shelves for six to twelve months. And so I think

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Speaker 10: the real question here is when do companies start hiking

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Speaker 10: prices for consumers is in immediate even though those goods

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Speaker 10: are not the ones being tariffed. Do they try to

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Speaker 10: pad that a little bit to see if things come down?

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Speaker 10: What certainty can consumers expect, I think is a big question.

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Speaker 10: But on both ends you are seeing in you know,

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Speaker 10: both in small business uncertainty and consumer confidence and sentiment.

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Speaker 10: Everyone is uncertain right now, Wall Street, consumers, workers, small businesses.

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Speaker 3: It's really interesting to see consumers take part in that.

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Speaker 3: It's one thing for corporations to be front loading these

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Speaker 3: tariffs here, but the word we got today from General

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Speaker 3: Motors deliveries up seventeen percent in the first quarter, fifteen

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Speaker 3: percent gain in retail volume forward saw retail sales rise,

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Speaker 3: Toyota up from the same time over last year. People

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Speaker 3: are aware of this in a way that they might

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Speaker 3: not be other economic trends or stories where they want

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Speaker 3: to get something done before tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: How far could this go from here?

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Speaker 10: We've seen polling that about eighty percent of people are

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Speaker 10: aware the President is doing something on tariffs, and almost

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Speaker 10: all of those people are aware that it will cause

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Speaker 10: prices to increase.

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Speaker 8: The Approval of those tariffs is very mixed.

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Speaker 10: It's almost a fifty to fifty split as to whether

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Speaker 10: people like them or not even knowing that their prices

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Speaker 10: will increase.

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Speaker 8: But I think after four years of.

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Speaker 10: Consumer uncertainty Heather Long from the Washington Post dubbed at

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Speaker 10: whack a mole inflation of something is always popping, Consumers

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Speaker 10: have become a lot more price sensitive in the last

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Speaker 10: four years, given various bouts of inflation, and especially now

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Speaker 10: with sticky high prices, and so I think they pay

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Speaker 10: attention to a lot of this stuff. The President is

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Speaker 10: also out there every single day saying he will do something,

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Speaker 10: not saying what he will do, but saying he will

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Speaker 10: do something. Tariffs have been the news to jore for

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Speaker 10: almost the emiss.

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Speaker 3: That we're going to have a big downturn after all

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Speaker 3: of this front loading in the first quarter. What's the

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Speaker 3: second half of the you're going to look like on

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Speaker 3: a car dealer.

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Speaker 10: Lot, I mean, you've already seen that ism is saying

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Speaker 10: that this is the first contraction in a number of

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Speaker 10: months twenty six.

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Speaker 8: I think it is not good.

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Speaker 10: I think for those car dealerships, you know, even if

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Speaker 10: these things have carve outs for North American autos or

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Speaker 10: for some countries, it's not quite clear how you can

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Speaker 10: even move forward because in a month the president might

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Speaker 10: do something different. I think both for consumers and businesses,

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Speaker 10: it's just a difficult kind of environment to operate in

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Speaker 10: and to make large decisions.

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Speaker 8: Like buying a car, buying a house, going.

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Speaker 10: On vacation, even what I'm going to spend at the

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Speaker 10: grocery store this week because my utility bill could hike

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Speaker 10: next week if heating oil prices go up. Well, and

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Speaker 10: I feel like I've asked this question a number of

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Speaker 10: times as we've kind of been building up to tomorrow,

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Speaker 10: But this notion that prices can only increase so long

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Speaker 10: as consumers tolerate them, right, companies have an ability to

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Speaker 10: pass on costs until they don't, And I just wonder

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Speaker 10: if they can't exercise that same kind of pricing power

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Speaker 10: this time given the kind of bad vibes we are

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Speaker 10: seeing out there in the consumption economy, What does that

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Speaker 10: imply for where we might see businesses actually just been

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Speaker 10: trying to cut costs elsewhere in terms of hiring or

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Speaker 10: even layoffs.

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Speaker 8: What could this actually pretend.

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Speaker 10: That not necessarily as far as going to layoffs or hiring,

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Speaker 10: but in the first Trump administration, not all of the

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Speaker 10: tariffs were passed through as price increases, companies said, you know,

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Speaker 10: we think we can cut a little cost here, find

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Speaker 10: somepenies in the couch cushions. Here, lower our margins by

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Speaker 10: a couple basis points here, and together taking all of that,

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Speaker 10: you know they didn't. You didn't see a one to

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Speaker 10: one pass through recently, more recently both a different scale,

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Speaker 10: and more recently during the pandemic during Russia, Ukraine, et cetera. Companies,

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Speaker 10: in fact, in many cases passed more than their increased

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Speaker 10: costs onto consumers. Consumers are extremely price sensitive. You know,

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Speaker 10: we've seen expectations for Jobs Day on Friday that wage

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Speaker 10: growth will tick down. Jolts was a miss this morning.

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Speaker 10: We are already starting to see softening in the labor market.

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Speaker 10: And so if you again, as the fedis said, higher unemployment,

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Speaker 10: higher prices, and slower growth all taken together results in

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Speaker 10: what you had in the seventies, which was the last

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Speaker 10: time uncertainty.

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Speaker 8: Was this bad.

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Speaker 3: If we get across the board tariffs tomorrow, and to

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Speaker 3: your point, we don't know, we could get some form

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Speaker 3: of reciprocal, We could get a lot of different forms

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Speaker 3: of things. He says, he'll be relatively kind. But say

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Speaker 3: you get that twenty percent across the board that at

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Speaker 3: one time was promised by this president. Is that an

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Speaker 3: automatic recession as some have predicted.

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Speaker 8: I don't know that.

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Speaker 10: I want to put odds on it, but I did

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Speaker 10: see that, you know, Marcus Andy doubled his recession forecast

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Speaker 10: this week, and that is you know, I think for

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Speaker 10: a while, I sat in this room a couple months

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Speaker 10: ago after the election and said, the market has priced

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Speaker 10: a lot of this in. We had not seen a

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Speaker 10: lot of market movement, kind of in the month after

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Speaker 10: the election. We are almost one hundreds days into this administration.

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Speaker 10: Market's up a little bit today, but I suspect we

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Speaker 10: won't see that for very long. Stock market obviously not

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Speaker 10: the entire story, but I think as we start to

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Speaker 10: see more and more data come in on slower job growth,

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Speaker 10: potentially negative jobs, slowing wage growth, higher prices, all of

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Speaker 10: that taken together points to recession.

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Speaker 2: We always look forward to having you with us, Liz.

444
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:30,360
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

445
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,960
Speaker 3: Liz PENCOTTI groundwork collaborative with us on Bloomberg TV and Radio.

446
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines and Washington as we

447
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,520
Speaker 3: drive forward with our signature panel. Next, we'll have Rick

448
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:44,000
Speaker 3: Davis and Jeanie Shanzino way in on this with Liberation Day,

449
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 3: as Donald Trump would say, tomorrow, and the.

450
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,119
Speaker 2: Jobs Report Friday. This is Bloomberg.

451
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

452
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cocklay,

453
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,040
Speaker 1: and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on

454
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,359
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live

455
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:07,120
Speaker 1: on YouTube.

456
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,639
Speaker 7: The big event in Washington tomorrow the planned announcement in

457
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,240
Speaker 7: the Rose Garden at four pm Eastern time after the

458
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,440
Speaker 7: market closed, notably of President Trump's reciprocal tariffs that we've

459
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 7: long been awaiting. And while that is sure to dominate

460
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 7: a lot of the news cycle tomorrow as it is today,

461
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,640
Speaker 7: we also have to note that tomorrow we'll have some

462
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,360
Speaker 7: results in hand from a few races that could be

463
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 7: bell Weather's. In terms of sentiment, voters are feeling right

464
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 7: now about President Trump and the Republican Party overall. There

465
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 7: are two special House elections in Florida today, one in

466
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 7: Matt Gates's district he of course vacated his seat. The

467
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,920
Speaker 7: other in the old district of now National Security Advisor

468
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 7: Mike Waltz, where the Republican candidate and what is a

469
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 7: plus thirty Republican district at least back in November, is

470
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 7: in a pretty tight race with his Democratic challenger. And

471
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 7: then there's also Wisconsin to consider, as there's a Supreme

472
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,880
Speaker 7: Court election that has drawn in ten of millions of dollars, Joe,

473
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 7: some of that money actually a lot of it coming

474
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 7: from Elon Musk.

475
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, we talk a lot about Liberation Day, but these

476
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 3: are the big stories happening in politics today. These elections

477
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 3: are happening right now, and we want to get the

478
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 3: sense of our political panel on both of these. Rick

479
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 3: Davis is with us Bloomberg Politics contributor partner at Stone

480
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 3: Court Capital are Republican strategist and Democratic analyst. Genie Shanzeo,

481
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 3: political science professor at Iona University.

482
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 2: Great to have you both here.

483
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,359
Speaker 3: I'm going to start with the Wisconsin Supreme Court battle,

484
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 3: as the Washington Post today describes it as the most

485
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 3: expensive judicial battle in US history. We've talked about this

486
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 3: a bit, ninety million dollars surrounding this race, Rick Davis,

487
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 3: what makes this so expensive?

488
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,920
Speaker 11: You know, it's kind of a referendum. It's a referendum

489
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 11: on control of the Supreme Court in Wisconsin. So if

490
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 11: Susan Crawford wins, it stays in liberal hands. If Brad

491
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 11: Sherman wins, it becomes a better chance of coming conservative.

492
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 11: So there's an ideological battle in Wisconsin. Wisconsin is a

493
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 11: key presidential primary state and a presidential electoral state, so

494
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 11: it has great implications for the next presidential campaign. And

495
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 11: on top of all that, Elon Musk has done his

496
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 11: best to nationalize the race and make it a referendum

497
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 11: on Elon Musk and Donald Trump. And I make that

498
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 11: order specifically because it's more about Elon Musk right now

499
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 11: than Donald Trump. Donald Trump hasn't raised a finger in

500
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 11: this state. It's really quite amazing that ninety million dollars

501
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:40,120
Speaker 11: goes into this operation for both Republican Democrats and Donald

502
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 11: Trump's on the sidelines. But his man, Elon Musk, isn't

503
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 11: jumping up and down with a piece of cheese on

504
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 11: his head and spending money like it was a.

505
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 2: Going out of style.

506
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 11: But it all boils down to turnout to his election

507
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 11: day turnouts all that matters, and I would say advantage

508
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 11: Democrats Republicans have a much worse turnout model in Wisconsin.

509
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 11: Their voters don't show up for these kinds of special elections.

510
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 11: They're Trump voters, so they'll come in mass on a

511
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 11: presidential day, but not much for midterms and special elections.

512
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,880
Speaker 11: So wait and see. But I would say I'd rather

513
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,959
Speaker 11: have the turnout of the Democratic voters than the Republicans

514
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 11: going into an election like this.

515
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 7: Well, and if the Democrats do turn out and the

516
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 7: liberal majority on the Supreme State Supreme Court, Genie is retained.

517
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 7: To Rick's point, is it Elon Musk who ultimately ends

518
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 7: up being the fall guy for that?

519
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 12: You know, I think he could. By the way, Happy

520
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 12: election Day, Kayleie. I know we're all talking about Liberation Day,

521
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 12: but I love a good election day. First voting since

522
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 12: Donald Trump got into office again, you know, I do

523
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 12: think that he could take the heat. But I also

524
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 12: think this is importantly tied to what we're going to

525
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 12: see tomorrow because imagine if the Republican loses in Wisconsin.

526
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 12: I think they'll win obviously in Florida, but if they

527
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 12: lose in Wisconsin, it's a state seat shore and it's

528
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 12: on the Supreme Court.

529
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 6: But imagine For those.

530
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 12: Majority makers on the Republican side in the House, the

531
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 12: big threat has been that if you don't go with

532
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 12: Donald Trump, he is going to have a funded primary

533
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,640
Speaker 12: challenge against you, and that primary challenge funding is arguably

534
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 12: going to come from Elon Musk. But if he's putting

535
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 12: twenty million dollars into a Supreme Court race in Wisconsin

536
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 12: and he can't win that, then that may give some

537
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 12: of those Republicans in the House a moment to say,

538
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 12: I may go against the President and Elon Musk on

539
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 12: something that my constituents are not in favor of. So

540
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 12: I really think for Republicans these elections today matter an

541
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 12: awful lot as it pertains to Donald Trump's economic agenda.

542
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 12: If all he can do is terrify us to death,

543
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 12: he's got to get the other parts of its economic

544
00:24:54,560 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 12: agenda through Congress, deregulation, energy production, and tax cuts, otherwise

545
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 12: he's going to have a very unhappy base of Republicans.

546
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: Do you agree with Genie on that, Rick?

547
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: Is it fair to call these two specials in Florida

548
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 3: specifically the sixth and of course the Wisconsin Supreme Court

549
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 3: race proxies or tests somehow of the Trump agenda.

550
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:17,959
Speaker 2: You know, it's tricky.

551
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 11: I would say again another good example, Donald Trump really

552
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 11: hasn't weighed in the Republican Party, hasn't spent a lot

553
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 11: of time and money on him. Most of the activities

554
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 11: come from outside groups, and.

555
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: These are Trump plus thirty.

556
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 11: As Kaylee said, districts, I mean overwhelmingly support of a

557
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 11: Donald Trump, And even the most dire Republicans I've talked

558
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 11: to said, well, a win by ten percent is going

559
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 11: to be enough to be respectable. No one's going to

560
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 11: play the over under, right. I mean, a win is

561
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 11: a win, and I don't think it'll reflect significantly on

562
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 11: the administration. Frankly, a Democratic winning in Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania,

563
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 11: like they did last couple of weeks ago, that sends

564
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 11: shock waves through Republicans because Lehigh Valley is really one

565
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 11: of the most important counties in Pennsylvania. As Lehigh goes,

566
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,479
Speaker 11: so does the state. And I guarantee you there are

567
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,959
Speaker 11: people like David McCormick and others who are sitting there going, wow,

568
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 11: I really don't care what's happening in Florida. We're gonna

569
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 11: have two Republicans come out of there. But the fact

570
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 11: that We're losing in Lehigh Valley. That is a big deal.

571
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 11: So I think there's a lot of questions. As Genie said,

572
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 11: a lot of Republicans scratching head right now, going wow.

573
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 11: I mean, like, am I at risk if I do

574
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 11: support Donald Trump's agenda? And I would say one thing,

575
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 11: just to be clear, tariffs are not popular Cato Institute

576
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 11: as a poll shows seventy five percent of people disagree

577
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 11: with the approach on tariffs. That is not something that's

578
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 11: going to get you reelected, even in a primary right now.

579
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 11: So there are a lot of people walking the plank

580
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 11: right now for this Trump agenda, and you know everyone's

581
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 11: hoping right now it pans out.

582
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 9: Well.

583
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 7: So when we consider the timing here, Genie, we know

584
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 7: that the President has suggested the reason he's announcing reciprocal

585
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 7: tariffs on April second instead of April first was because

586
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 7: he didn't want it to coincide with April Fool's Day.

587
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 7: But is it also possible he didn't want it to

588
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 7: coincide with these special elections.

589
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 12: I think that's absolutely right. It never rained true that

590
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 12: Donald Trump was that concerned about April Fool's Day.

591
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 6: And listen, you know this is going to have an impact.

592
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 12: I don't think anybody expects Democrats to win in six

593
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 12: and one in Florida. Those are, to Rix point, to

594
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 12: your point, thirty forty point districts for Donald Trump. But

595
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 12: you're going to make a lot of members of the

596
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 12: GOP very nervous if this is a close victory, because

597
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,719
Speaker 12: don't forget, you have some Republicans sitting in districts Kamala

598
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 12: Harris won, some Republicans sitting in much narrower districts, and

599
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 12: so those are the people who are going to be concerned.

600
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 12: And again to Rick's point, the tariffs are not popular.

601
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 12: What is popular. Deregulation, the tax cuts, all of that

602
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 12: takes moving through Congress. And with a majority this tight,

603
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 12: the loss of any one of these members who begins

604
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 12: to feel the threat is not necessarily Elon Musk's money,

605
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 12: but going with Donald Trump's agenda, that could be the

606
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 12: death now for Donald Trump's ability to push through his

607
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 12: entire economic agenda. So the White House is watching this

608
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 12: very very carefully.

609
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 3: Today, Hey Rick, if everyone's so confident that the Republicans

610
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 3: will win the two specials in Florida, and we see

611
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 3: Randy Fine expected to win by ten or fifteen, depending

612
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 3: on who you ask. Albeit, that's not the best performance

613
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: for a district that Donald Trump won by over thirty points.

614
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 3: But why did they have to sideline Eleast defonic That

615
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 3: was said to be in part driven by concerns about Florida.

616
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 3: When it comes down to hard math, though these two

617
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 3: stay Republican. Why did her career have to change or

618
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 3: was it about more than Flora?

619
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's more than Florida.

620
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 11: I mean Florida, you know, two three weeks ago, based

621
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 11: on what Trump poster Tony Fabrizio was saying was not

622
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 11: a sure thing. And look it's election day, right, nothing's

623
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 11: sure on election Day. But I would say too, probably

624
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 11: more to do with trying to get this agenda through Congress.

625
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 11: They have the slimmest of margins to votes. If they

626
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 11: take any risks at any time, you know, with one

627
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 11: of those votes, they may not be able to get

628
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 11: an agenda that Donald Trump has campaigned on for four

629
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 11: years through this Congress. And of course we know that

630
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 11: the Trump folks want to push all this through in

631
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 11: year one because they know next year is an election

632
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 11: year for Congress and it's anything goes. People are going

633
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 11: to start voting the way they need to to get

634
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 11: re elected, and so you can't count on Republicans doing

635
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 11: what Trump wants them to do. So I think it

636
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 11: was a smart move from the perspective of just ensuring

637
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 11: that this congressional agenda that he's got gets the action

638
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 11: that it needs to get.

639
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 7: All Right, Rick Davis and Janie Shanzeno our signature political

640
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 7: panel joining us on this election day, one day ahead

641
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 7: of reciprocal Tariff's Day.

642
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 6: Thank you so much.

643
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 7: And while we're watching those stories domestically, I do want

644
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 7: to note we just got some headlines crossing the terminal

645
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 7: related to geopolitics. He's coming after a presser between the

646
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 7: Ukrainian President, Vladimir Zelenski and the German Foreign Affairs Minister

647
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 7: on Alena Barbak regarding the ongoing war with Russia. President

648
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 7: Zelenski said that Ukraine will be picking attorneys lawyers for

649
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 7: talks with the US incoming days, noting that NATO has

650
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 7: not been discussed in talks around an economic deal with

651
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 7: the United States. He also Joe says that Russia has

652
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,479
Speaker 7: halted long range drone strikes as of today Tuesday, and

653
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 7: says that this coming Friday he will be discussing peace

654
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 7: troops with allies.

655
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 3: That's all of it from President Zelenski. Indeed, in this,

656
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 3: of course follows the rhetoric we heard from Donald Trump

657
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 3: over the weekend that he was angry, he used some

658
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 3: other language to describe how he felt about Vladimir Putin,

659
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 3: And maybe that's unlocking a little bit of movement here.

660
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 3: If Russia is in fact halting drone strikes, it's a

661
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 3: pretty major development in lieu of a ceasefire.

662
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, I just wonder what would be targets of those

663
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 7: drones were, if this is pertaining to energy infrastructure in

664
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 7: the Black Sea, things that both sides have been working

665
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 7: on a temporary ceasefire on. Will of course keep you

666
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 7: up to date on this story. And we still have

667
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 7: much more ahead here on Balance of Power. Robert Order

668
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 7: is going to join us on the fight between the

669
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 7: Trump administration and the courts that's still ahead here on

670
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 7: Bloomberg TV and radio.

671
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcasts. Catch

672
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple,

673
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You

674
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship

675
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: New York station just say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

676
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 3: We live in Washington alongside Kaylee Lines. I am Joe Matthew.

677
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 3: Ahead of Liberation Day tomorrow. We're dealing with a couple

678
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 3: of other stories that are impacting two special congressional elections

679
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 3: under Wayne Florida, a Wisconsin Supreme Court election, and an

680
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 3: important hearing today happening on Capitol Hill. Brings us back

681
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 3: to the Trump narrative from a different side here. We've

682
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 3: talked a lot about President Trump's calls to impeach judges, Kaylee.

683
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 3: We've heard as well about legislation on Capitol Hill now

684
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 3: that might seek to codify this effort, not to impeach judges,

685
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 3: but to limit their scope.

686
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 7: And authority, specifically whether or not they can issue nationwide injunctions.

687
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 7: This is what the act that was put forward and

688
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 7: actually forced through a committee by Congressman Dary Lisa would do.

689
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 7: It's the so called rogue judges in their mind, which

690
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 7: was actually mentioned today in the Judiciary Subcommittee where Jim Jordan,

691
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 7: the chair of the committee was presiding over. He said

692
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 7: that kind of three avenues to address judges like Judge Bosberg,

693
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 7: who of verses at the center of the Venezuela alleged

694
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 7: gang members deportation case. You either pass this bill, appeal

695
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 7: to the Supreme Court you have oversight, or use the

696
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 7: power of the purse the appropriations process to keep the

697
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 7: judicial branch or judges in check.

698
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 3: So it's a Judiciary committee hearing underway. The legislation by

699
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 3: Congressman darryl Isa that Kayley mentions is now being taken

700
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 3: up by the House, and the Speaker got into this

701
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 3: earlier today.

702
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 2: Mike Johnson, Listen.

703
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 13: We have broad scope. We have all authority over the

704
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 13: lower courts. Okay, we're not defunding courts, and we're not

705
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 13: doing anything other than limiting in this legislation the ability

706
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 13: of a judge to issue a nationwide injunction, because that

707
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 13: is the problem that has gotten totally out of control,

708
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 13: and we need this check on the judiciary. And I

709
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 13: think we're going to prove that on the floor. One

710
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 13: activist judge should not issue a nationwide injunction against the

711
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 13: president's policies. And in these district courts have to stay

712
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 13: within their constitutional bounds.

713
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 7: So we want to get more on this.

714
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 8: In turn to Robert mcward.

715
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 7: He is a constitutional lawyer and practicing criminal defense and

716
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 7: civil rights lawyer in Maricopa County, Arizona. Also founder of

717
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 7: the law Office of Robert mcward. Welcome back to Bloomberg

718
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 7: TV and Radio. It's good to have you, Robert. When

719
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 7: we consider this whole notion of nationwide injunctions, obviously it

720
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 7: is not a new thing for judges to be able

721
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 7: to impose. Though, even if the subject matter pertaining to

722
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 7: the Trump administration is hotter than may it may be

723
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 7: in other instances. What would be lost if judge's ability

724
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 7: to do that was taken away?

725
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 14: Well, good morning. Look, first of all, the people who

726
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 14: are part of this Trump coalition had no problem at

727
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 14: all running to district courts and getting nationwide injunctions against

728
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 14: the Biden administration immigration policies. And he can specifically refer

729
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 14: to Greg Abbott in Texas who ran to one district

730
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 14: court down in the southern district of Texas which was

731
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 14: very open to these things, and they issued nationwide injunctions

732
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 14: all the time. This is how this goes. This is

733
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 14: not judges out of power or exercising too much power.

734
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 14: There's a simple mechanism when there's an injunction, you ask

735
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 14: for an emergency hearing before the Circuit Court of Appeals

736
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 14: and ultimately possibly the US Supreme Court, and you can

737
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 14: overturn that junct injunction if you can ask those judges

738
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 14: and impress upon those judges that you should have that

739
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 14: injunction overturned. It's just the way the system works. They

740
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 14: just don't happen to like it because Donald Trump is

741
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 14: getting a lot of these injunctions issued because his positions

742
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 14: are constitutionally very bad. So you know, that's just the law.

743
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 14: And now they're complaining about the referee. They're getting the

744
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 14: call against them, and they're spending all the time complaining

745
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 14: about the referee. That's all that's going on here.

746
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 3: Well, is the referee's life about to change here, Robert,

747
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 3: because it's pretty clear that impeaching judges will not be

748
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,280
Speaker 3: the answer. And it's interesting, Darryl Isia and this hearing

749
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 3: had Newton ging Rich in fact testifying the former speaker.

750
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 3: They call these resolutions to impeach judges political symbols, not

751
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 3: legislative symbols. This is legislation and could be important for

752
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 3: judges going forward if it passes.

753
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 14: What will be the impact, Yeah, you know, first of all,

754
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 14: on the question of an impeachment, our country does not

755
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 14: impeach judges because we don't like their rulings. That president

756
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 14: was established during the impeachment trial of Samuel Chase in

757
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 14: eighteen oh five, and even his political opponents, including Aaron Burr,

758
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 14: voted not to convict him on articles of impeachment in

759
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 14: the United States Senate because they believed in the principle

760
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 14: that you do not attack judges for their rulings. You

761
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 14: can impeach a judge if he's for instant taking bribes

762
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 14: or something like that, but not for their rulings. Now,

763
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 14: on the question of limiting a court's jurisdiction, the Constitution

764
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 14: at the start of Articles three says that the judicial

765
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 14: power of the United States shall be vested in the

766
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 14: Supreme Court and such inferior courts as Congress made from

767
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 14: time to time ordain and established, which means that the

768
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 14: court that the Congress could presumably get rid of district

769
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 14: courts and circuit courts of appeal because they have that power.

770
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 14: Limiting the jurisdiction is also a possibility, But that's a

771
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 14: double edged sword because next time when they want an

772
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 14: injunction against democratic president, that power will now be gone

773
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 14: because they've gotten rid of it. So you know, those

774
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 14: injunctions serve a useful purpose. What it says is, hey,

775
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 14: put everything on hold until we have a chance to

776
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 14: hear the merits of your case, because if we don't

777
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 14: put it on hold, then somebody's position or somebody's interest

778
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 14: will be destroyed by the passage of too much time

779
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 14: and the continuing unconstitutional actions. So, yeah, I suppose the

780
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 14: Congress could do that. They could limit the courts. But

781
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 14: if you limit the courts, where are you going to

782
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 14: prosecute all these people you're saying are illegal, aliens, etc.

783
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 14: If you don't have those courts to do it.

784
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 7: Well, So, when we consider the courts and the people

785
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 7: who make arguments in them, Robert, what do you consider

786
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 7: the greater threat here in terms of the kind of

787
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 7: narratives we are seeing. Is it around the actual judges

788
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 7: who interpret the law and hand down decisions, or around

789
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 7: what we're seeing when it comes to some of the

790
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,919
Speaker 7: highest powered law firms that are being targeted by the administration,

791
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,800
Speaker 7: firms that would be bringing these cases to these judges

792
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 7: in the first place.

793
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 14: Well, I think it's both. I think it's what they're

794
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 14: doing is they're trying to make a chilling effect on

795
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 14: good district judges who are just doing their job. They're saying,

796
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 14: we're going to make your life difficult for just doing

797
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 14: your job, and that's not the way the constitution is

798
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 14: supposed to work. Regarding attacking these law firms, this is

799
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 14: absolutely really just beyond what should be going on. This

800
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 14: is really absurd. And all the law firms are doing,

801
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 14: they're taking a position that's fair enough, but they're presenting

802
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 14: in court. What you're basically doing by attacking these law

803
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 14: firms is saying, we don't want you to have a

804
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 14: lawyer so that you can have your day in court.

805
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 14: We just want to go forward with dictatorial powers and

806
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,919
Speaker 14: take away all of your resources in pro bono work

807
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 14: or even the lawyers you hire, because we're going to

808
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 14: attack your lawyers if your lawyers dare to take a

809
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 14: stand against our administration in our regime. That's what's going on,

810
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 14: and that's just really scary about what this Trump administration

811
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 14: wants to do. Once you start attacking people's lawyers, that

812
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 14: should tell you that your legal position is bad and

813
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 14: you might want to think about a new legal position.

814
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 2: Robert macwhirder.

815
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 3: I want to ask you about a couple of the

816
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 3: cases that have been identified following the deportations of alleged

817
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 3: gang members that brought us, at least in one case

818
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 3: here to a call for a judge to be impeached.

819
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 3: Remembering that these alleged to Venezuelan gang members were put

820
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 3: on an airplane under the Alien Enemies actisent out of

821
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 3: the country. That judge that Kayley mentioned called for the

822
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 3: plane to be turned around. The White House did not

823
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 3: acknowledge that, and it went on to El Salvador. A

824
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 3: lot of other flights have gone to El Salvador, including

825
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 3: one on Sunday night, the Administration not using the Alien

826
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 3: Enemies Act, in fact calling it a counter terrorism operation.

827
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 3: Robert seventeen alleged gang members to El Salvador. They were

828
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 3: from both El Salvador and Venezuela. And there were a

829
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 3: couple of cases that have been called out since then.

830
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 3: In one case, a man from Maryland who is deported

831
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 3: according to the administration because of an administrative error in

832
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 3: the US. Legally his name Kilmar Armando Obrago Garcia. You

833
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: might hear about him. Another professional makeup artist by the

834
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 3: name of Andre Jose Hernandez Romero, whose lawyer says that

835
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 3: the tattoos that were identified to be gang tattoos in

836
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 3: fact were tributes to his family he identifies as gay.

837
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 3: Both are said to possibly be in this maximum security

838
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 3: prison in El Salvador for no reason. Robert, what happens

839
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 3: to them?

840
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 14: Well, they could be in great danger, they may have

841
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 14: had political asylum or whatever reason. At the very least,

842
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 14: the American taxpayers are going to be on the hook

843
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 14: for a huge civil judgment once they're determined to actually

844
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 14: have legal status or even be citizens. The American taxpayer

845
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 14: is going to have to pay these judgments out because

846
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 14: this is just a total bundle on the part of

847
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 14: the administration. And you know, let's not forget they don't

848
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 14: say who these folks are. They allege their Venezuelan gang members,

849
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 14: they allege their part of Trend de Agua, but they

850
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 14: don't know. And as I've said before, you know, what's

851
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 14: to stop this Trump regime from going in and grabbing

852
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 14: me or you and saying to the public, we're part

853
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 14: of Trend de Agua and sending us down to El Salvador.

854
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 14: I at least speak Spanish, But hey, that could be terrible,

855
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 14: and what's the mechanism do process rights that we should

856
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 14: have as American citizens or even as undocumented persons have

857
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,919
Speaker 14: to actually push back on that and say, hey, I'm

858
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 14: not even a member of the gang, much less anything else,

859
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 14: or should be actually deported. This is a way of

860
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 14: handling immigration. And by the way, now they're talking about

861
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 14: not the Alien Enemies Act, because that's a weak round.

862
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 14: If you truly are a member of a game and

863
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 14: have a criminal past, you can be deported under the

864
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 14: immigration statutes anyway. You put them in deportation proceedings as

865
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 14: a process, and you can deport people normally. This is

866
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 14: all for show, and a lot of people are going

867
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,760
Speaker 14: to be hurt and may be killed, and the American

868
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 14: taxpayers ultimately are going to pay out millions of dollars

869
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,919
Speaker 14: in judgments because of the incompetence of this administration.

870
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 7: Well, Robert, you alluded to there the use of the

871
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 7: Alien Enemies Act. There's also a question around the use

872
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 7: of the Emergency Economic Powers Act when it comes to tariffs,

873
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 7: which was supposed to be a live issue in the

874
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 7: Senate today. Is there was going to be a vote

875
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 7: on Democratic Senator Tim Kane of Virginia's resolution to end

876
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 7: that emergency declaration when it comes to Canada. Due to

877
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 7: the filibustering of Senator Cory Booker, it looks like that

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00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 7: may be put off until tomorrow. But that is side.

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00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 7: The fundamental question here, Robert, is whether or not this

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00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 7: actually is an authorized use of this authority for the president,

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00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 7: these emergency economic powers, or if it is acting in

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00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 7: defiance of the Article one constitutional responsibility of Congress to

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00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 7: be the one deciding tariff policy.

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00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 14: Oh, I think that's absolutely the situation. It is acting

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00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 14: in defiance. The question is whether Congress, and specifically the

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00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 14: Republican majority will get a backbone and start asserting their

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00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 14: own authority and prerogatives under Article one of the Constitution.

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00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 14: The Constitution was designed to have a balance of powers

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00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 14: between the branches of government, and what has happened is

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00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,720
Speaker 14: parties sometimes circumvent that. But this has very much occurred

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00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,959
Speaker 14: here and the Congress under Article one are not exercising

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00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 14: not only their power, their responsibility to be a check

893
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 14: on the president. This idea of using this terrorism narrative. Look,

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00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 14: there are members that trend to Agua that need to

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00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 14: be deported from this country. Nobody argues that. Nobody argues

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00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 14: about the deportation of violent criminals from this country. That's

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00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 14: not the issue. Once you start using a terrorism designation,

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00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 14: doesn't that kind of weaken actually fighting terrorists? I mean,

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00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 14: let's not forget nine to eleven was a real failure

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00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 14: of our kind of screening system in immigration law, and

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00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 14: that's what these statutes were focused on doing. And then

902
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 14: branching this out as a justification for Terris to create

903
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 14: a tariff war and expanding what you believe are your

904
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 14: presidential powers is just not what the Constitution allows, and

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00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 14: Congress needs to assert its own prerogatives and authority under

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00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 14: the Constitution.

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00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 3: Robert, great to have you back Robert McWhirter with a

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00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 3: sun Bloomberg TV and Radio as we consider it the

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00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 3: legal side of the Trump administration right now. We'll have

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Speaker 3: a lot more on this as we track the hearing Kaylee,

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00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 3: and wait for a ruling if this goes to the

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00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 3: Supreme Court. Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.

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Speaker 3: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,

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Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find

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00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 3: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern

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Speaker 3: at bloomberg dot com.