1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to an episode of Till Death Do 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: Us Parts. I'll be your host, Emily Simpson with Shane Okay, 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: so today we are talking about this is. I actually 4 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: knew the story before, I think, because I had seen 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: it probably on twenty twenty or something like that, so 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: I was familiar with it. But it is a series 7 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: on Hulu called Mister and Missus Murder, And when I 8 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: started watching it the other day, I was like, oh, 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: I know this story. I have seen this before. So 10 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: it's very interesting. We're going to talk about high school friends, 11 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: seems to who end up not being friends anymore. 12 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 2: So. 13 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: The victim's name is Mike Williams. He was a thirty 14 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: one year old real estate appraiser from Tallahassee, Florida, and 15 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: he disappeared on December sixteenth of two thousand after leaving 16 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: for a duck hunting trip at Lake Seminole. We're talking 17 00:00:55,160 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: about Florida, all right, so geographically we are now in Florida. 18 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: His boat and some hunting gear were found, and authorities 19 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: initially ruled the case and accidental drowning, though his body 20 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: was never recovered. Mike's mother spent years pushing officials to reinvestigate, 21 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: believing his death was suspicious. The case took a major 22 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: turn years later when Mike's best friend Brian Winchester, who 23 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: had married Mike's widow Denise, confessed to killing him and 24 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: led investigators to his remains. Brian Winchester said he committed 25 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: the murder at Denise's request so they could be together 26 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: and benefit from a large life insurance payout. So we've 27 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: got all the key players. We've got best friends, we've 28 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: got affairs, we've got swamps and alligators, and we've got 29 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: life insurance policies. So this is in the nineties. So 30 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: Mike Williams marries his high school sweetheart Denise, and this 31 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: is in nineteen ninety four. So you got this. You 32 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: got Mike and Denise. 33 00:01:59,040 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 3: Okay, you graduate. 34 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: Yes, I graduated from high school in nineteen ninety four. 35 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: Thank you for reminding everyone how old I am. Wait, 36 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: you graduated before I did. 37 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 2: Ninety three. 38 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: Yes, so you're older than I am. 39 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 3: That's why you should listen to me. 40 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: Oh okay, sir. That same year, their best friends from 41 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: high school, Brian and Kathy, also got married. So we 42 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: have Brian and Kathy, and we have Mike and Denise. 43 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: Do you see how I'm laying this out for you 44 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: because I know you're going to be like, wait, who's Brian. 45 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: No, I'm paying attention. 46 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 3: There's two couples, two couples high school sweethearts, yes, get married, yes, 47 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 3: and they're all friends. What state are we in? 48 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: Florida? 49 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: Right? 50 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 3: All right? 51 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: So both couples settle in Tallahassee, Florida, near where they 52 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: grew up. Brian and Kathy welcome a son, and Denise 53 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: and Mike welcome their daughter just nine months later. 54 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 3: So both couples have Wow, they're really a fallow the 55 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 3: same timeline. 56 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, Mike works as a real estate appraiser and his 57 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: best friend, Brian mortgages no insureance. Oh that's a key 58 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: key fact right there. You need foreshadowing, a little foreshadowing, right. Also, 59 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: you know what I read. I read that Mike when 60 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: he was working as a real estate appraiser, and this 61 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: is in the nineties, that he was making two hundred 62 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: thousand a year, which was pretty good. 63 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, still pretty good. 64 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: It's still pretty good. But I'm talking about in the 65 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,119 Speaker 1: nineties and then, you know, right out of school, and. 66 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 3: So he was doing well well, I questioned his business practices. 67 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: Now, no, he gets murdered. 68 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 2: Oh this is a victim. 69 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 3: Yes, okay, so the victim is a real estate. 70 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: Agent, no real estate appraiser. 71 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 2: Appraiser. 72 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 3: He's making two hundred thouandars a year as appraiserraise the 73 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 3: insurance was making twenty thousands. No, well this makes sense. Yes, 74 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 3: he was the market. The market. Everyone wanted their house 75 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 3: a praise. 76 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: Is this in the early two thousands? 77 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, you remember this? No, I remember the market, a 78 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 3: real estate market. 79 00:03:58,320 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: It was booming in two thousand. 80 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 3: Yes. 81 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: Wait, why do you know this? Tell me because I 82 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: pay attention. 83 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: To the thousing market. 84 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 3: I don't know. 85 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 2: I'm just saying the housing market was booming. 86 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 3: Okay, so yeah, a real estate appraiser was much needed 87 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 3: all over the place, making good money. 88 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 2: That's all I was getting it. 89 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and his u's it the company he worked for. 90 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: They also interview them in this Hulu series and they 91 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: talk about what a hard worker he was, Okay, like 92 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: he was always at work. He would go home and 93 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: spend time with his wife and kid, and then go 94 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: back to work. Like he was the hardest working person. 95 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: Like he had a very good work ethic. He made, 96 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: he made very good money. So anyway, we get to 97 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: December sixteenth of two thousand. This is Christmas time. This 98 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: is when Mike disappears. So on December sixteenth, Mike leaves 99 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: home before dawn to go duck hunting at Lake Seminole. 100 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: He tells Denise, that's his wife, that he plans to 101 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: return around noon so that they can go on their 102 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: annual trip to celebrate their sixth wedding anniversary. So they're 103 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: supposed to go on a. 104 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: Trip, okay, after he's duck hunting, after he's. 105 00:04:58,240 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: Done duck hunting. 106 00:04:59,360 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 3: Okay. 107 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, at the Winchester house and now we're going over 108 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: to the other couple, Kathy wakes up to find Brian 109 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: is not there and he did not tell her where 110 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: he was going. You know, these men that disappear and 111 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: their wives don't know where they are, and then their 112 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: wives think it's normal. It makes me realize that you're 113 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: not so bad sometimes. 114 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 3: That's why we do the true crime stuff. 115 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: Yes, I'm like, I really like I really focusing on 116 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: this true crime. I'm like, Shane is not so bad 117 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: at all, because she talks about how he goes duck 118 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: hunting all the time and he just goes whenever he wants, 119 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: and he just leaves all the time, and like she 120 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,239 Speaker 1: doesn't even know where he is or where he's going, 121 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: and that's just. 122 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 3: What he does. 123 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: I would if you, if I woke up and you 124 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: weren't home, I would be on a rampage. 125 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm home and you go on a rampage, all right. 126 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: So then Mike does not come home that day and 127 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: Denise reports that he's missing. At the same time, Brian 128 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: shows up to his end laws much later than he 129 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: was supposed to. His wife, Kathy talks about how they 130 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: always go. She calls it her granny's farm and Georgia. 131 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: I think it's Georgia's where they went to. So she 132 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: took the sun and drove to the farm to spend 133 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: time with her family. It's Christmas time, right, and she 134 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: doesn't know where Brian is and he's supposed to meet 135 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: them there. But he shows up hours later, and he's exhausted, 136 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: and it shows all these photos of him, like asleep 137 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: on the couch, and you're in your mind, you're thinking, 138 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: she just documented, like she took photos of this guy 139 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: just you know, we know he murdered his best friend. 140 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: She doesn't know that she doesn't know what happened. But 141 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: I'm saying, now, look like where we are present day 142 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: looking at these photos, he's like asleep on the couch. 143 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: It's like he's tired. He had quite a morning that 144 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: morning anyway, all right. He claimed that he had gone 145 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: hunting alone that day. Authorities launch a search effort at 146 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: Lakes Seminole to find Mike. So then later that night 147 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: his boat is discovered. The search team finds Mike's abandoned 148 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: boat truck at the lake, but they cannot find the body. 149 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: So from Lake Seminoles establishment in nineteen fifty seven, this 150 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: is very interesting to me to present time, just over 151 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: one hundred people had drowned in the lake and out 152 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: of all those one hunter bodies, they had recovered all 153 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: of them except for Mike's. So his is the only 154 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: body that they couldn't recover from this area of. 155 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 3: The lake because it lake. 156 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: Oh, it's very interesting, yes, So they investigate, well, they 157 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: searched for forty four days, and then after forty four 158 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: days the search was called off. Mike Williams was listed 159 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: as still missing, but theories swirled that he'd either run 160 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: off or fallen overboard and was eaten by an alligator. 161 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: So there were a lot of people that were saying 162 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: the reason that his body wasn't recovered was because this 163 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: area of we're talking about Florida, Florida. I always think 164 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: I can live in Florida until I think about the 165 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: amount of alligators that are in Florida, and then I 166 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: decide I can't live in Florida because I don't know 167 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,239 Speaker 1: if you know this, but I've told you this many times. 168 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: My biggest fear is alligators, and I have nightmares about alligators. 169 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, it shouldn't be right because we don't have any. 170 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: Alligators, I know, but I don't know why. 171 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 3: But ever, I've just plus. 172 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: If an alliator chasing you know what you can do? 173 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 3: Climb a tree, just go on a table. 174 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's no I don't know in my nightmares 175 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: when I have nightmares about there's no tables in my nightmare, 176 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: so there's nowhere for me to go. 177 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: My fear would be a bear. 178 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: I know you have a very very No, I don't. 179 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 3: I don't run around scared of a bear's I'm just 180 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 3: saying if a bear approached me, that would be my 181 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 3: nightmare because you can't jump on a table You. 182 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 2: Can't outrun a bear. 183 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: You can't climb a tree. 184 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 2: No. 185 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 3: The only thing you can do, if you're lucky, is 186 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 3: you go downhill because their rear legs are longer than 187 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 3: their front legs, so they can't just run down hills. 188 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 3: They would tumble, something would happen down the hill. But 189 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 3: I'm not banking on that as my escape route. If 190 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 3: I see a bear, what are you gonna do? I'm 191 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 3: gonna look for the nearest hill. What am I going 192 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 3: to do? 193 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: We're supposed to play dead? 194 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's hard though. 195 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've tried that with you. 196 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 3: It doesn't work. 197 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 2: Wake up, wake up, they get mad at me. 198 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: Wait, there's some there's some if it's brown versus black, 199 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: there's like a saying if it's brown, you're supposed to 200 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: like lay down like black, you're supposed to like attack 201 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: or something. I don't know. 202 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 3: I need to get that right, right, Yeah, you need 203 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 3: to get that right because you need to find out 204 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 3: before you approach a bear. 205 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: No, I need to figure that out. But I do 206 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: think it's like brown, like laid down and black attack. 207 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: I think it's something like that. That's how you're supposed 208 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: to remember it. 209 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe you should all look that up. Yeah, 210 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 3: I'm not going to trust you on that one. 211 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: After forty four days, the search was called off. And 212 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: again here was the thing about the alligator. They said 213 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: that a lot of people were like, well, the body 214 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: wasn't found because alligators probably consumed him. Right, But you're 215 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: talking about a guy that's like one hundred and sixty 216 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: seventy pounds and he's five foot ten, like he's he's 217 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: a decent sized guy. He's bigger than you. 218 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 3: And decent sizes bigger, decent size, bigger than you. 219 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 2: I'm doffel bag size. 220 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. 221 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: We determined that. And they don't find there's no other 222 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: parts found, like if a I guess, the chance, like 223 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: the chances of an alligator consuming like an entire human 224 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: not normal. 225 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 3: And they don't know if there's a bunch of alligators 226 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 3: they might I don't know. 227 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: But anyway, they were like, no, there was nothing found, 228 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: like no remnants of yeah yet the other bodies. Right, 229 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: And then they were saying that it doesn't seem plausible 230 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: that it could have been an alligator because this was 231 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: during the winter time, because we're talking about December, right, 232 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: because this is the Christmas time. Yeah, it's December and Florida, 233 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: and temperatures get very low, and especially at night. And 234 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: if you know anything about alligators, they're actually hibernating during 235 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: this time and they're not feeding. So they were saying, 236 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,839 Speaker 1: it's not even I guess scientifically. 237 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: Well, it's even less likely, right. 238 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: That an alligator consumed him. So again, where is the body? 239 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: So that's where we're at with that. Then this is 240 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: interesting because then six months later after this search, right, 241 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 1: so they searched for forty four days, they can't find him, 242 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: They can't find the body, they find nothing. They did 243 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: find his truck, and they found the boat. Then six 244 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: months later, all of a sudden, I believe it was 245 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: like a jacket of his and his waiter boots and 246 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: his fishing license appear in the water. So like those 247 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: are all found. But the interesting thing about what they 248 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: found in the water is that the waiter boots didn't 249 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: have like alligator bites in them. Yeah, and I believe 250 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: like his fishing license didn't. Really it didn't seem like 251 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: it had been there for six months, like it wasn't decaying. Yeah, 252 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: I think it's jacket. So the jacket was found and 253 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: his fishing license and his waiter boots, but they didn't 254 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: look like they had in there the amount of time 255 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 1: that they should have been there. But after they were found, 256 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: his wife Denise, then I believe, I don't know what 257 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 1: it is, you do a petition that he be declared dead, right, 258 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: because at this point he's just a missing. 259 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 3: Person, Like, can we just all agree he's dead. 260 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: She needs him declared dead, right. 261 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: Heis her insurance money. Right. 262 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: So some of Mike's hunting gear surfaces in the lake, 263 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: this is six months after his disappearance, including waiters and 264 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: a hunting jacket and also his license. Still no traces 265 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: of human remains are anywhere to be found. 266 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 3: Because they drop that in the ocean or what is 267 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 3: the swamp? Yeah, they dump that in there, and then 268 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 3: she's like, okay, now can I get my insurance money? 269 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 3: I know, you know what. 270 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: In the documentary he never admits to that, and there 271 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: isn't any conclusion on that, but that is my thought. 272 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: My thought is they search for this guy for forty 273 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: four days. There's some theories that alligators ate him, but 274 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: not everybody is like buying that theory. His mother, Cheryl 275 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: is very vocal about she thinks that he's still alive 276 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: or there's foul play, or like she's all over the place. 277 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: And then you've got the widow who needs him to 278 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: be declared dead. So then six months later that miraculously, 279 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: like this fishing license and Jacket all ends up in 280 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: the lake. All I can picture is like the widow 281 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: Denise driving at night and like throwing stuff into the lake. 282 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 3: The fishing license was because she had to put a 283 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 3: name to it. 284 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, she's Jacket. 285 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,959 Speaker 1: No, the fishing license totally right. No, it's like, well, 286 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: we have to make sure that they know that it 287 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: hit it's his, so throw his fishing license in there too. 288 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 3: It's almost insulting. How bad they are at these crimes. 289 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 3: What kind of people do they think we are? 290 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: So authorities determined that Mike most likely drowned during the 291 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: hunting trip. His body has never been recovered. Denise pushes 292 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: for a petition for him to be declared dead. A 293 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: judge declares him dead. 294 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 3: She didn't push a petition to declare him dead. She 295 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 3: pushed a petition to get her insurance money, right. 296 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: Okay, So then after he's declared dead, then she gets 297 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: like one point seven five million in insurance proceeds. So, 298 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: but she needed him to be declared. 299 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 3: Dead, right, she should have just confessed he's dead, trust me, 300 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 3: I killed him. 301 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, but then she won't get her insurance money. She 302 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: needs that one point seven five million, all right. Mike's 303 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: mother pushes for answers. So, Mike's Mother's name is Cheryl Williams, 304 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: and she refuses to believe that her son died in 305 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: an accident. For years, she writes letters to the Governor 306 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: of Florida urging officials to reinvestigate the case. But then 307 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: they were never opened. They would just send them to 308 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: like the Florida Department of like Investigations or something. 309 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 3: Like. 310 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: So, like the Governor's office never opened them. They were 311 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: just taking them and then sending them to like another 312 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: investigative department or something. 313 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 3: Great. 314 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: She even contacted wildlife experts who told her that alligators 315 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: do not feed in cold winter months. In total, she 316 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: sends more than twenty six hundred letters demanding further inquiry. 317 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: She also made posters with his picture and like she 318 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: would hang him up, you know, on the street, and 319 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: she I talk about a mother, Yeah, she was. 320 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 3: She was actively searching for answers. 321 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: Yes, for years, she never gave us. 322 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 2: She probably knew the daughter in law did it. 323 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: I think she was suspicious that the daughter in law 324 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: was involved somehow, and they did not have a relationship. 325 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: Like once Mike went missing, Denise stopped talking to his mother. Yeah, 326 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: and she also Denise also didn't allow Cheryl to have 327 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: a relationship with their daughter, so she just cut her 328 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: out completely. So not only did Cheryl lose her son, 329 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: but she also lost any ties to her granddaughter as well. 330 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: Investigators later note that Mike had taken out a one 331 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: point seventy five million dollar life insurance policy, but the 332 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: policy was taken out through his best friend and Brian 333 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: Winchester taken out. It was taken out missing six months 334 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: before his disappearance. While the search was still going on, 335 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: Denise was filing a claim against his life insurance. She 336 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: was ready to accept the fact that he was dead, 337 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: but according to Florida law, since there was no proof 338 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: Mike had died, he would not be declared dead for 339 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: five years. Denise did not want to wait that long 340 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: to collect on Mike's life insurance, so her attorney went 341 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: to work. It only took six months for her to 342 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: collect the money. The judge rolled the cause of death 343 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: accidental drowning while duck hunting on Lake Seminal. Body has 344 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: not yet been recovered. And I'm telling you, the fact 345 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: that they made that decision, that the judge made that decision, 346 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure was because of the license and the coat 347 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: and the waiters like that was probably the pivotal evidence 348 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: that they needed to determine it. 349 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 3: Of insurance, that's what they needed. 350 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: Right well, to declare him dead, yeah, for purposes of insurance. 351 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 3: Too, right right? 352 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: Then, Denise Mary's Winchester, Mike's best friend, Brian Winchester, moves 353 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: into the house. 354 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 2: Wait, where's Winchester's wife. 355 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 3: They end up getting. 356 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: Divorced, and they touch on that a little bit. But 357 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: he was having problems with his wife, Kathy, and she 358 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: suspected that he was having an affair with Denise, and 359 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: I believe she questioned him about it, and then someone 360 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: wrote her a letter. It's very complicated, but Denise was 361 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: dating some other guy or going out with some other 362 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: guy named Chuck, and then Brian became very jealous that 363 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: she was going out with this guy named Chuck, and 364 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: he showed up while they were on a date. Chuck 365 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: ended up writing a letter to Kathy saying that he 366 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: witnessed this weird scene between Brian and Denise and that 367 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: he thinks they're having an affair and he knows Brian 368 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 1: is married. Anyway, It's very convoluted, there's a lot of 369 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: details in this whole scenario, but he puts Kathy on 370 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: notice that Brian is having an affair with Denise, and 371 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: I think she always suspected it, but Brian would deny it. 372 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: But then when she got that letter of this guy 373 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: confirming it, then she filed for divorce. Then he didn't 374 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: want to get divorced. I don't know why he wants 375 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: to be with Denise. 376 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 3: Why did he kill her? 377 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: I think the plan originally was to kill her too. 378 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: I think they discussed that. I think the original plan 379 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: was to for both of them to drowned or something 380 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: like that. But they couldn't. I guess they couldn't. 381 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 2: They couldn't make that yeah work. She didn't have a fishing. 382 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 1: License, I guess not so, so they had to go 383 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: with just getting rid of Mike so that they could 384 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: be together. So so then in two thousand and five, 385 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: this is now, Denise and Brian get married, and we 386 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: know that Brian is Mike's best friend, and Brian is 387 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: also does life insurance, and Brian is also are. 388 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 3: You really a best friend if you murder him? 389 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. 390 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 3: I think that relationship. 391 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: Brian later reveals that he and Denise had been having 392 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: an affair since nineteen ninety seven, so they'd been having 393 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: an affair on these babies, right, Yeah, I don't know 394 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: whose babies do at this point, I don't know. Brian's 395 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: ex wife, Kathy, was also Denise's best friend. Kathy's determined 396 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: to get justice from Mike, so she cooperates with police 397 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: when necessary, speaking with Cheryl Williams on her theories, and 398 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: even wearing a wire around Brian to try and get 399 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,199 Speaker 1: him to confess. She also had conversations with Denise on 400 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: the phone, and I believe the phone calls were recorded. 401 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: I think she also wore a wire when she had 402 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: conversations with Denise. So Kathy was very invested in getting 403 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 1: answers and getting justice for Mike. So then we get 404 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: to twenty twelve. This is seven years after their wedding, 405 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: so Denise and Brian separate. I read or heard or 406 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: maybe they even said it in the documentary I don't remember, 407 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: but allegedly or apparently, I don't know which way it goes. 408 00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: But Brian Winchester had a sex addiction problem, and so 409 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: that was the reason Denise wanted to get divorced. So 410 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: she wanted to leave him, after all, they've been having 411 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: an affairs since nineteen ninety seven. 412 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 3: They were going to kill him. That's the deal breaker 413 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 3: for Yes. 414 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: She's like, you know what, this sex addiction is just 415 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: I just can't deal with that. 416 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 3: And if you want to go out murder more people, 417 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 3: we can do that. But if you're going to be 418 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 3: if then yeah, it's going to be bad for a relationship. 419 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: In the years leading up to this, Brian, which would 420 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: you rather be have a murder problem or a sex addiction? 421 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 3: Well neither. I mean, we'll go with sex addiction. 422 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: I mean, if I have to pick. In the years 423 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: leading up to this, Brian's ex wife Kathy started to 424 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: rebuild a friendship with Denise in hopes of driving her 425 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: and Brian apart. She was successful. I love Kathy and 426 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: all of this. Kathy is just like Kathy's just like 427 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: she's in it for the long time. She's like, I'm 428 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: going to build a relationship with this woman. I'm going 429 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: to pretend to be her friend. I'm gonna get her 430 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: on my good side. I'm gonna get her to confess 431 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: and like think that we're friends. I mean, she was 432 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: in it, because that takes a long time. That isn't 433 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: just like wearing a wire and like trying to get 434 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: someone to have a conversation. Like she was committed to 435 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: building a relationship with this woman. 436 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 3: In hopes that she would get a confession. 437 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: Right. Friends say, Brian severely struggled with the breakup, but Denise, 438 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: on the other hand, looked like she was living her 439 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: best life. So this is what this is actually so, 440 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: and then in twenty sixteen, this is the crime that 441 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: leads to the breakthrough in this case. So I'm telling 442 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: you this case, this murder of Brian Williams, would have 443 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: never have been solved if this did not occur in 444 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. Okay, So we know that Denise wants to 445 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: divorce Brian because he's a sex addict, right, or she's 446 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: just done with him or she's over him or whatever. 447 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 1: She wants to move on. He doesn't want to get divorced, 448 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: probably because he's like you know, then she's going to 449 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: go tell about what happened. I'm sure he's And he. 450 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 3: Can't take out a life insurance policy. If she's like 451 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 3: an ex wife, probably like right, So he life insurance policy. 452 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 2: That's men to kill you. That's the worst. 453 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: So he's trying to talk to her, he's trying to 454 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: call her, he's trying to text her, and she blocked him. 455 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: She won't respond to anything, so she basically pushes him 456 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: over the edge. So in twenty sixteen, Brian hides inside 457 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: Denise's car and then when she gets into the car, 458 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: he jumps out from behind in the back seat with 459 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 1: a gun and he confronts her and she's driving around. 460 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: He makes her drive around, He tells her which way 461 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: to go. She pulls into a CVS parking lot and 462 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: she eventually talks him down. So he kidnaps her, hides 463 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: in her car, puts a gun to her head, makes 464 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: her drive around. Then they pull into a CVS parking 465 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: lot and she talks him down and she gets him 466 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: to with a drawer or call him down or whatever 467 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: by promising that she will not tell the police what happened. 468 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: Then as soon as she gets him out of her 469 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: vehicle and she calms him down, and she promises she 470 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: won't tell the police. Everything's going to be fine. I'm 471 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: not going to say anything. 472 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 3: Of that, right. 473 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: She drives straight to the police station and reports him. 474 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: She drives him back to his car, and while he's 475 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: back at his car, he retrieves supplies from Denise's trunk, 476 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: Like he had bleach in a plastic tarp in her trunk. 477 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 3: Like, so there was had a murder. He was one 478 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 3: of the kill her. 479 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was going to kill her. 480 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 3: He had a guy. She really convinced him, right, he 481 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 3: had a. 482 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: Gun he hid in her car. 483 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 3: Has whats the bleach for? 484 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 2: Well, I probably think it's going to clean. 485 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: Does that to clean up the blood? Like if he 486 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: shoots her, then he he's going to clean the vehicle 487 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: with bleach. 488 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 3: I don't know because and he can't clean clothes with bleach. 489 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 3: It would just diet and stuff, right, it would burn 490 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 3: the colors. 491 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. You know what, you know who he 492 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: needs to reach out to. It is the woman in 493 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: the suitcase murder that managed to dismember her husband. 494 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 3: It without a draw. 495 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: Of blood or forensic evidence anywhere in that apartment, not 496 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: one drop. That's who he needs to consult with anyway, 497 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: So Denise goes straight to the police and reports the incident. 498 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: So then Brian Winchester is arrested and charged with armed 499 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: kidnapping and assault, and Denise asks the court to give 500 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: him a life sentence. Of course she does. She doesn't 501 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: need him out rowing we are around. Brian ascends to 502 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: twenty years in prison. At this time, Denise asked her 503 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: friend Kathy to tell Brian's father to relate to Brian 504 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: in prison, that she isn't talking. Kathy immediately knows that's 505 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: in reference to Mike, so that's what happens. So Denise 506 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: sends a message to Brian while he's in prison, saying 507 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: that she isn't talking. But you know what that means. 508 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: She isn't That means she's not talking about what happened 509 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: to Mike. 510 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 3: Right, So that's the message anyone. 511 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, However, you've got Brian Winchester in prison now 512 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: for assault and kidnapping. So while he's speaking with investigators, 513 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: Brian Winchester makes a deal with prosecutors. In the documentary, 514 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: they don't give details about how this conversation comes up, 515 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: but obviously when they have Brian Winchester. 516 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 3: And he's wait, he's in custody. He's in custody. Denise 517 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:30,479 Speaker 3: told on him. 518 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:31,959 Speaker 1: Yes, so he's in custody. 519 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 2: And then she writes some letters saying I'm not talking. 520 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 1: Well, shouldn't writ him She sent him a message, right, 521 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: But it doesn't it doesn't matter to him about that. 522 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: Like the point is, at some point they don't talk 523 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: about this. They don't give you clear details in the documentary. 524 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: I'm just going to speculate here, but I'm assuming when 525 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: they have him in custody, they're also asking about Mike Williams, right, Yeah, 526 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: they know he's sold in the insurance. He's the guy's 527 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: best friend and he's married to the white I mean, 528 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: they've been onto them, but they don't have enough evidence, right, 529 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: So now they have him in custody. So he ends 530 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: up making a deal with prosecutors. He gets full immunity. 531 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: Full immunity. Wow, And I read the immunity deal. He 532 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: gets full immunity to give them details of Mike's murder, 533 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: how it went down, where the body is, who is involved. 534 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 1: So they basically said to him, I read this immunity deal, 535 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: and it's very interesting, I'll tell you because there's a 536 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: typo in it, But in the immunity deal, it's basically like, 537 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: you give us all this information about how the murder 538 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: was committed, where the body is, who is involved, you 539 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 1: detail it out, we will give you full immunity. And 540 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: also he got no life sentence for the kidnapping and 541 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: gun charge and assault with the ex wife. Talk about 542 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: a deal, O kidding? I mean this guy got twenty 543 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: years and that's it for the kidnapping, the gun, the 544 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: the whole thing with the ex wife, and complete immunity 545 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: for a murder that he committed. 546 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 2: Wow. 547 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: And you know what was interesting in this immunity deal 548 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: because I looked at that I was reading it, and 549 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: you know how as lawyers, what do we do. We 550 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: always we don't reinvent the wheels. So whenever you're doing 551 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: an immunity deal, and you're doing it for a new person, 552 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: you take the old immunity deal, right, or you have 553 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 1: a lot of you have a lot of templates you're using. Right. 554 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: So when I'm reading this immunity deal, they forgot to 555 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: change the name from Brian Winchester. So there's actually a 556 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: paragraph where it says Wade Wilson. 557 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 3: Yes on his immunity deal. 558 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 2: The deal, Oh my gosh, Wade. 559 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: Wilson, Like, we're in Florida, right, so it's the same 560 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: prosecuting office or whatever. They forgot to switch out Wade 561 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: Wilson's name with Brian Winchester. But anyway, I just found 562 00:27:54,520 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: that amusing. So in his confession, Brian described, so this 563 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: is what happened that day. He describes pushing Mike from 564 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: his boat. So he was hunting with him that morning. 565 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: He says he pushed him from his boat. But his 566 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 1: initial he was trying to drown him because I guess 567 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: Mike wasn't a strong swimmer. So he pushes him from 568 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: the boat. He lands in the water. He thought he 569 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: would drown when he pushed him. 570 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 2: He thought he didn't swim like drown. 571 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: I think he thought with the waiters on, because people say, 572 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: that's very dangerous if you fall in the water with 573 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: the waiting those waiter boots they fill up with water 574 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: and then you can't. They're heavy galoshes, Yes, they're called waiters. 575 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: Goloshes are what kindergarteners wear when it rains outside. 576 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh well, fishermen goloshes. But isn't that what it's called. 577 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: Though, I think that's like a term for kids galoshes. 578 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: I don't think adults that go hunting say goloshes. I 579 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: think they say waiters. Right, okay, anyway, but when those 580 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: waiters fill up with water, they're very heavy and they're 581 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: very dangerous and. 582 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 2: You're stuck in them, and it's like, yeah, right, bricks. 583 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: So I guess he thought if he pushed him into 584 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: the water with the waiters on, they would fill up 585 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: with water, he would drown. Well, he didn't drowned. He 586 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: ended up like holding onto a tree stump. So he's 587 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: just out in the water, holding onto a tree stump. 588 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: So then the guy panics because he's like, I just 589 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: tried to kill him and he's alive. 590 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 2: How inconvenient. 591 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: This does not work well for me at all. So 592 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: he shot him in the face. 593 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 2: He had a gun. He had a gun the hunting, Yeah. 594 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, he had a gun. They were duck hunting. 595 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 3: Well, that's a completely different kind of murder. Yeah, it's like, oh, here, 596 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 3: I'm just going to make an accidental drowning. Okay, everyone, 597 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 3: I'll shoo him in the face. 598 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know what, he panicked because he tried 599 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: to drown him, and then he didn't drown and. 600 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 2: He literally pushed him right. 601 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 3: So if the guy survived, he say, you pushed me, right, 602 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 3: But it could be like, yeah, I pushed because you're 603 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 3: an idiot or something. 604 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 2: I mean he could have he had outs. 605 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't think that goes through your mind. 606 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: I think you panic. 607 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 3: Well it goes through your mind is let me pull 608 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 3: out my shotgun and kill him. I guess in the face. 609 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 3: That's what he did. So he shot him, all right, 610 00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 3: obviously it's okay, okay. 611 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: So this is where the details get fuzzy because I 612 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: don't know this part and I couldn't find this information. 613 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: But somehow Brian Winchester shot him in the face while 614 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: he's in the water. Then he has to drag him 615 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: out of the lake. I don't know how you physically 616 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: do that. I mean, he's wet, he has clothes on, 617 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: he's got to drag he's got the waiters. He's got 618 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: to drag him out of the lake, put him into 619 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: his own vehicle, and then drive him and bury him somewhere. 620 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 2: But did he have a bag. 621 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: I don't know what he had. But he did bury him. 622 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: He buried him very close to where they actually live. 623 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: So he did tell them where the body was, and 624 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: they did recover the body. 625 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 2: I think was found in the car. 626 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 3: Right, he didn't search it. 627 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: That was another problem, right, And that is where they 628 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: have talked about how this investigation. If they would have 629 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: deemed it not just a missing person but a crime scene, 630 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: they would have searched the boat, they would have searched 631 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: his vehicle, they would have tried to I don't know. 632 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: They probably would have looked for other tracks to see 633 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: if there were other vehicles there at the time. They 634 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: would have treated it like a crime scene. But because 635 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: he was just a missing person that they thought drowned 636 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: in the lake, they never treated that area like a 637 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: crime scene, so they never investigated it forensically. So this 638 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: guy literally shot him in the face. He somehow gets 639 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: him into his own vehicle. He drives him however many 640 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: miles away it is, and he buries him, and then 641 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: he shows up for Christmas dinner in Georgia at Granny's 642 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: house and he's tired. Yeah, that's why he showed up late, 643 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: because he had lots to do. He had clean Yeah, 644 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: he did not plan on that. He planned on him drowning. 645 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: So then he has to add all this time on 646 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: where he has to like. 647 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 2: What he had done. 648 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 3: If he drown would then he have called the authorities 649 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 3: and like, my friend fell overboard. 650 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: I think so, I think that was a plan. I 651 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: think he would have admitted that they were together duck hunting, 652 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: and I think he would have said that his friend 653 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: drowned and wasn't a strong swimmer and he tried to 654 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: help him and he couldn't get him out or whatever. 655 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: So also Brian, during this confession and this immunity deal 656 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: that he makes, he also claims that Denise knew of 657 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: the plan and had encouraged it. Right, of course he's 658 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: going to throw her under the bus. Brian later leads 659 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: investigators to Mike's remains. The body had been buried for 660 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: nearly two decades in a dry creek bed at car Lake, 661 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: which was about an hour away from Lake Seminole. Brian 662 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: claims he committed the entire act alone. 663 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 2: Right at that point, they're only going to find bones, right. 664 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: They did find bones. They found they found some pieces 665 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: of clothing that hadn't completely deteriorated. 666 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 3: I know what. 667 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: They didn't find his fishing license, they did not or 668 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: his jacket. They did not find those. So this now 669 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: we get to twenty eighteen. This has been going on 670 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: since two thousand, right, we get to twenty eighteen, and 671 00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: Denise is arrested. In May of two thousand and eight, 672 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: authorities arrest Denise on her daughter's nineteenth birthday. Denise pleads 673 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: not guilty. Brian and Cathy both testify against her in court, 674 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: and this is in her original trial. The jury finds 675 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: her guilty of conspiracy to commit murder, first degree murder, 676 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: and accessory after the fact. So in December of twenty eighteen, 677 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: which was not that long ago. I mean this took 678 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: place in two thousand, where all the way up to 679 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, this woman's being sentenced. Denise was found guilty 680 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: of conspiracy to commit murder and accessory after the fact, 681 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 1: and she was sentenced to life in prison. She actually appeals, 682 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: so she's convicted originally of conspiracy to commit murder and 683 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: first degree murder and accessory after the fact. She appeals 684 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: that and they get rid of the first degree murder 685 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: because her attorney argued, which is a good argument, that 686 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: there wasn't enough evidence to prove that she was involved 687 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: in the actual murder. I mean he doesn't place her there. 688 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: He says he acted alone. Yeah, So the first degree 689 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: murder charge is eventually dropped on appeal, and appeals court 690 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: later overturned her murder conviction, but her conspiracy conviction stood. 691 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: So today Brian is serving a twenty year sentence for 692 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: the kidnapping of Denise, while she serves a thirty year 693 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: sentence for conspiracy in Mike's death. So no one is 694 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: officially charged for Mike. Williamsburger put away for a while, 695 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: you know, twenty years. You know what they did was 696 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,479 Speaker 1: they just max that out. 697 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 3: I mean it's like, okay, you have immunity in the murder. 698 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 3: But because you think they would have given him twenty 699 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 3: years for kidnapping. 700 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: That way, No, I don't think so. 701 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 2: I'm not downplaying it. That was horrific. 702 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 3: You know, he's dangerous, but they wouldn't have given him 703 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 3: twenty years. No, they used it as so he had 704 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 3: immunity for the murder. So they got him to it's like, 705 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 3: ohja right, they found a reason to throw him in jail. Well, 706 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 3: they had a good reason, a valid criminal reason to 707 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 3: throw him in jail, but they put him away for 708 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 3: a long time knowing that, you know, try to get 709 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 3: retribution for like the him getting away, right, So. 710 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: You're saying they gave him the max on the kidnapping 711 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: because they couldn't get anything on that, you know, also 712 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: the prosecution. You know, I'm sure the only way this 713 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: guy would talk and tell where this guy's body is 714 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: is if he got full immunity. 715 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 3: It was like all or nothing. 716 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, they got something out of it. 717 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 3: Otherwise they would he'd still be free, maybe a kidnapping 718 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 3: charge gotten a couple of years or whatever it was. 719 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: So I mean at that point, they're just weighing the 720 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: benefit of giving for sure, you know, solace to this 721 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: mother so that she finally knows like where her. 722 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 3: Son is on there end, just closing the k solving it. 723 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,839 Speaker 3: There's always something to learn from these, you know, like 724 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,959 Speaker 3: hopefully they learn like, Okay, next time someone goes missing 725 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 3: in the swamp, let's not assume it's a missing Let's 726 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 3: treat it like a crime. 727 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: Scene, right right. So, I mean the irony is Brian 728 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: is serving a twenty yer sentence just for kidnapping, while 729 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: Denise is in jail for thirty years for conspiracy. Where 730 00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: are Mike and Denise Where's Mike and Denise's daughter? Her 731 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,800 Speaker 1: name is Annsley. Where is she now? So? In twenty nineteen, 732 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: Denise signed a deal to avoid prosecution on fraud charges, 733 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: and Mike's mom, Cheryl, and his brother Nick agreed that 734 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: Ansley should be awarded her of late father's entire estate 735 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: and insurance moneies. She was given a significant financial sum 736 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: and a total of four real estate properties across Florida. 737 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: Under the agreement, Annsley this is the daughter cannot use 738 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 1: any of this money or assets to help pay her 739 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: mother's legal fees or any other costs associated with the 740 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: murder case. If she does so, she can be penalized 741 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in damages. Antsley holds 742 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: a bachelor's degree in entrepreneurship. I don't even know. Entrepreneurship 743 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: is such a like. 744 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 3: Like well, it's like business administration. 745 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 2: It's like such an old. 746 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,359 Speaker 1: Like very broad word. So. She earned a bachelor's degree 747 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: in entrepreneurship from Florida State University and a master's degree 748 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: in mass communication from the University of Florida. According to reports, 749 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: Ansley continues to reside and talent Hassee where she works 750 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 1: as a business strategies, social media, marketing, and public relations specialist. 751 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: I do know that she also stands by her mom. 752 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: I think that's why they had that writer in there 753 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: that she couldn't use any of the insurance proceeds or 754 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,800 Speaker 1: real estate proceeds that she inherited from her dad's estate 755 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: to use towards her mom's defense, because I think she 756 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: was a very staunch supporter of her mom, saying that 757 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: she didn't believe her mom was involved at all and 758 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 1: that her mom shouldn't be in prison. 759 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 3: So I guess they were. 760 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 2: We should watch the documentary, She. 761 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,439 Speaker 3: Should watch the documentary. Yes, So. 762 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: Anyway, so Mike, I believe, because this is he wasn't 763 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: sentenced in till twenty eighteen, so he's in I don't 764 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: know if he's eligible for parole after. I don't know 765 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: if it's twenty years without parole or if it's twenty 766 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: years and sometime in that timeframe he's eligible for parole. 767 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 1: I would say probably not eligible for parole. I don't know, 768 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: because he got a pretty sweet deal in that immunity 769 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,800 Speaker 1: deal with actually admitting to murder. 770 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 3: How he did it, how you can I thought like 771 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 3: twenty years was on the table for his little deal 772 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 3: with her and kidnapping her. Right, we probably never thought 773 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 3: that was a twenty or sentence, right. 774 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: I think when it when they probably put the maximum 775 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: out of He's like, wait, wait wait, wait wait, right, 776 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: is there anything you want me to tell you? 777 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 3: Like, how can we They probably downplay like this is 778 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 3: a little gun charge, don't worry about that. Okay, the 779 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:22,879 Speaker 3: murder thing, we're going to get immunity on. 780 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 1: Right, all right, So that this is called it's on Hulu. 781 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: It is no it's a I think it's a three parter. 782 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: It's called Mister and Missus Murder. There's also some dateline 783 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: episodes on it. It's a very it's a very interesting, 784 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: intriguing story if you're interested in watching it. 785 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 3: It's got all. 786 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: It's got all the things. It's got you, romance, it's 787 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: got romance, the affairs. It's got alligators, affairs, insurance, money, sex, addicts, kidnapping, 788 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: Doug Honnie, it's got it all. So anyway, it's called 789 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: Mister and Missus Conspiracy, conspiracy, it's got it all. So anyway, 790 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: thank you guys for listening. Till death do us part again. 791 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: If you have any cases out there, that you're aware 792 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: of of husbands taking out their wives or wives and 793 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: you know what I mean by taking out not like 794 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 1: to dinner. 795 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 3: Be sure to DM me and let me know. 796 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: We're always interested in your recommendations and as always, thank 797 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 1: you so much for listening and please follow legally. 798 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,439 Speaker 2: Brunette Divorce over Death. 799 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: Yes, we will end every episode in reminding our listeners 800 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,479 Speaker 1: that divorce is always the best option over death. Yes, 801 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 1: thank you for listening.