1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,200
Speaker 1: A scuffle in a broader battle over states rights and

2
00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,040
Speaker 1: the Endangered Species Act took place at the ten Circuit

3
00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,600
Speaker 1: Court of Appeals in Denver yesterday. The federal government asked

4
00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,560
Speaker 1: the appeals court to overturn an order that bars the

5
00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,920
Speaker 1: release of endangered gray wolves in New Mexico without the

6
00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,520
Speaker 1: state's permission. New Mexico and eighteen other states argue the

7
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,040
Speaker 1: law requires the US Fish and Wildlife Service to cooperate

8
00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:27,200
Speaker 1: with them on how to reintroduce endangered species within their states.

9
00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,159
Speaker 1: Federal attorneys say the law allows the agency to go

10
00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,839
Speaker 1: around a state if necessary to say the species. The

11
00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,080
Speaker 1: court fight is going on during uncertainty about the future

12
00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,800
Speaker 1: of the Endangered Species Act. I've been talking with Charles Warren,

13
00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,800
Speaker 1: head of the environmental practice at Cramer Levin Chuck tell

14
00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,839
Speaker 1: us about the issue at the Tenth Circuit. Yeah. I

15
00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,720
Speaker 1: think the first thing to know is that this is

16
00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:56,000
Speaker 1: about the what they call a Mexican gray wolf, which

17
00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,160
Speaker 1: is a species of gray wolf that's been on the

18
00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,560
Speaker 1: endangered list under the Endanger Species Act. There are very

19
00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,440
Speaker 1: few of them left here in the United States, and

20
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,520
Speaker 1: um the FICTION Wildlife Service, which is in the Department

21
00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,280
Speaker 1: of Interior has for a few the number of years

22
00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,800
Speaker 1: now been reintroducing them back into various states, and they've

23
00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:16,919
Speaker 1: had some success in some of the Great Lake States,

24
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,240
Speaker 1: not as not as well in Arizona and New Mexico.

25
00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,880
Speaker 1: And what they decided to do here was take captive

26
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:29,959
Speaker 1: Mexican great wolves and reintroduced them in New Mexico in

27
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,520
Speaker 1: certain areas, not not many, but but you know, a few.

28
00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,800
Speaker 1: And of course the state took great umbrage at this

29
00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,280
Speaker 1: because the ranchers and people in the states say, well,

30
00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,800
Speaker 1: these are predators. They're going to start, you know, eating

31
00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,080
Speaker 1: our livestock and so and you didn't consult with us,

32
00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:45,919
Speaker 1: and this is a terrible idea. You didn't get a permit.

33
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,360
Speaker 1: And the district court judge had said that's right, and

34
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,240
Speaker 1: he enjoined them, and so that's that's really what they

35
00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:58,760
Speaker 1: were arguing about at the Circuit court, you know, yesterday,

36
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,640
Speaker 1: and he has the better side of the argument. Under

37
00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:08,440
Speaker 1: the law, well, the Endangered Species Act gives the Department

38
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:15,320
Speaker 1: of Interior the chance to reintroduce species in order to

39
00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:20,680
Speaker 1: help them come back once they've become endangered or threatened.

40
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,880
Speaker 1: And so this is a program that's certainly authorized under

41
00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,720
Speaker 1: the Act. But the Act, in one of the sections

42
00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,240
Speaker 1: says they should consult with the states and comply with

43
00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:35,280
Speaker 1: state permit requirements in connection with certain activities, except in

44
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,280
Speaker 1: instances where the Secretary of Interior determines that such compliance

45
00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,160
Speaker 1: would prevent him from carrying out his statutory responsibilities. And

46
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,959
Speaker 1: one of those areas is carrying out research programs and

47
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,600
Speaker 1: involving the taking or possession of fish and wildlife, or

48
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 1: programs involving reintroduce reintroduction of fish and wildlife. So so

49
00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,440
Speaker 1: the general idea is you're supposed to consult with the

50
00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,480
Speaker 1: state and if they have perment requirements, and they do,

51
00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:03,519
Speaker 1: and that's one of the things that they were saying

52
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:08,280
Speaker 1: to the judge. And they didn't get a permit, and

53
00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,240
Speaker 1: and basically the Department of Interior said, look, we need

54
00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,680
Speaker 1: they won't give us a permit, and we need this

55
00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:17,840
Speaker 1: in order to carry it. We need to move forward

56
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,200
Speaker 1: in order to carry out our program to help save

57
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,840
Speaker 1: this endangered species. And so I think it's a you know,

58
00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,799
Speaker 1: it's and it's an interesting case. I think in the end,

59
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,480
Speaker 1: I think that the government has the better argument, because, um,

60
00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,560
Speaker 1: the overall intent of the Endangered Species Act is to

61
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:41,240
Speaker 1: try and save endangers and threatened species, whether that's habitat

62
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,720
Speaker 1: protection or reintroduction of these species into areas where they

63
00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,920
Speaker 1: once roamed. And I think that the you know, just

64
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,320
Speaker 1: because the state doesn't like it. If if they're trying

65
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,600
Speaker 1: to throw up roadblocks to prevent it, and the Secretary

66
00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,880
Speaker 1: of Interior thinks that that doesn't allow them to carry

67
00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,360
Speaker 1: out the program, I think in the end, uh, the

68
00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,240
Speaker 1: Court's going to side with the Secretary of Interior chucked.

69
00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 1: The Endangered Species Act was passed nearly unanimously in three

70
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,680
Speaker 1: to stop extinction of the symbol of our nation, the

71
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:19,000
Speaker 1: bald Eagle. Republicans are targeting it. How how important is

72
00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,440
Speaker 1: it and how likely is it that it will survive? Well,

73
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,880
Speaker 1: it's been a very important law, and it's been very

74
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,040
Speaker 1: important to protect habitat and to protect species. And it

75
00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,560
Speaker 1: has been under attack for a lot of years since

76
00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,279
Speaker 1: it passed in nineteen seventy three because often projects like

77
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,919
Speaker 1: big developments have been impacted and not not necessarily stopped,

78
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 1: but maybe moved or truncated or things like that um

79
00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,920
Speaker 1: by the Endangered Species Act. And so it's been something

80
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,159
Speaker 1: that's that people have been against for a long time.

81
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,040
Speaker 1: I think there will be clearly an effort to do

82
00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:59,000
Speaker 1: something about it. I think though that the since it

83
00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,039
Speaker 1: takes uh sixty votes in the United States Senate to

84
00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,360
Speaker 1: break a filipbuster and you can still filipbuster legislation like this,

85
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,279
Speaker 1: I think that's it's likely that it won't get through

86
00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,680
Speaker 1: the Senate because I think there are enough senators who

87
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,280
Speaker 1: support the Endangered Species Act that will end up blocking it.

88
00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,400
Speaker 1: So I mean, you never know, but I think that

89
00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,240
Speaker 1: in the end, I don't think they'll be successful, and

90
00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,200
Speaker 1: I think there'll be a lot of environmental and conservation

91
00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,800
Speaker 1: people who are pushing very strongly. It's a very volatile

92
00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,760
Speaker 1: type of thing and people really supported a lot and

93
00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,479
Speaker 1: a lot of people oppose it, so I think it's

94
00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,159
Speaker 1: it's going to be a big battle here. Again, we

95
00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:47,240
Speaker 1: have another visual with with animals as opposed to two people.

96
00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,520
Speaker 1: It's like we had to have the Sioux tribe out

97
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,240
Speaker 1: in Denver. So it's it's really it's really going to

98
00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,800
Speaker 1: be interesting. And uh, we appreciate your taking us through

99
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,680
Speaker 1: all these different environmental issues. Thanks so much. That's Chuck

100
00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,200
Speaker 1: war and he's head of the environmental practice at Kramer Levin. Well,

101
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 1: I want to that's it for this edition of Bloomberg Law.

102
00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,960
Speaker 1: Thanks to our technical director Chris Trike Comey and our

103
00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:19,000
Speaker 1: producer David Suckerman. Bloomberg Markets with Carol Master and Corey

104
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,279
Speaker 1: Johnson is starting. Now, what do you have for us today? Carol?

105
00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,000
Speaker 1: We have some great stuff coming up. We're gonna talk

106
00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,680
Speaker 1: with the CEO of So Knows. It's a sound home

107
00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,680
Speaker 1: sound system. Corey and I have it in our home,

108
00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,760
Speaker 1: so we're talking about the direction for that company. Also

109
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,320
Speaker 1: giving a digital degree what that's all about. That's interesting.

110
00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,120
Speaker 1: I have Stillness and I haven't hooked it up yet,

111
00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:42,719
Speaker 1: So come on you. That's Bloomberg Markets, Carol Mazarin, Corey

112
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,119
Speaker 1: Johnson up next right here on Bloomberg Radio