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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

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Speaker 2: is Robert Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick. And today on Stuff to

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Speaker 3: Blow Your Mind, we're going to be starting a series,

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Speaker 3: probably a couple of episodes on a cultural phenomenon, the

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Speaker 3: wobbly mascots of Japan known as urukiara. Rob what got

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Speaker 3: you interested in urukiara?

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Speaker 2: Well, my family we recently visited Japan and it was

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Speaker 2: an amazing experience, highly recommended, you know, full of culinary, historic, natural, cultural,

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Speaker 2: and pop culture discoveries. We tried to cover just about

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Speaker 2: everything during our time there, from you know, Shinto shrines

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Speaker 2: and historic landmarks to Ghibli Park, the Tokyo Pokemon Center,

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Speaker 2: and you know, as with any visit to another country

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Speaker 2: and another culture, there's so much fun and wondered to

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Speaker 2: be had in the little things. And I think one

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Speaker 2: of our favorite pastimes, especially as we traveled around in

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Speaker 2: the country and especially as we use public transportation, was

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Speaker 2: the endless parade of these curious mascots, these uru kiyara,

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Speaker 2: and it was just you know, every time we would

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Speaker 2: encounter another one, we were like, oh, look, at this

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Speaker 2: little one. We've got to and we have to research it,

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Speaker 2: you know, bust out our phones. Once we were able

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Speaker 2: to find ourselves seated or stationary on the train, figure

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Speaker 2: out who this individual is, what they represent, it was

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Speaker 2: a great deal of additional fun.

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Speaker 3: Now we'll go into a lot more detail about what

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Speaker 3: yurukiarra are in the forms they take in these episodes,

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Speaker 3: but generally they are characters that can appear in the

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Speaker 3: form of two D representations like drawings or also in

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Speaker 3: costumed embodied form. Were you mostly just seeing them like

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Speaker 3: on signs and in media and stuff, or did you

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Speaker 3: actually come across physically costumed eruqia.

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Speaker 2: Are Sadly, we never encountered any physically costumed mascot character

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Speaker 2: as Kiara mostly, I mean exclusively, we're encountering them on

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Speaker 2: informational signs sometimes you know, promotional material and so forth,

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Speaker 2: and very rarely on merchandise. I didn't encounter a lot

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Speaker 2: a lot of them that were heavily merged, though some

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Speaker 2: of them are as we'll discuss, but yeah, it's like

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Speaker 2: oftentimes would be like in the midst of going from

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Speaker 2: point A to point B and momentarily being distracted, but

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Speaker 2: also momentarily being you know, getting an emotional boost from

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Speaker 2: seeing one of these little cute characters and you know,

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Speaker 2: and figuring out what they're trying to say to you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, oh, it's a pair of bipedal sentient Japanese

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Speaker 3: leaks who are talking about the agricultural products of this prefecture.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah, so yu Kyara have garnered a fair amount

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Speaker 2: of attention internationally already. I imagine many of you are

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Speaker 2: more than aware of them. I believe John Oliver did

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Speaker 2: a piece on them many years ago, and it has

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Speaker 2: continued to revisit the topic over the years. But for

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Speaker 2: those of you who are new to the concept, you

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Speaker 2: can basically start with the Western concept of a mascot character,

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Speaker 2: say a Ronald McDonald. You know, like, there's an example

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Speaker 2: Ronald McDonald and is his team of McDonald's mascots. They're

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Speaker 2: sometimes physical and costume or makeup form. They're oftentimes illustrative,

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Speaker 2: sometimes downplayed, sometimes you know, exaggerated, but they're there and

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Speaker 2: they represent the brand. Then you have things like what

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Speaker 2: the Starbucks siren with with the double tail. You know,

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Speaker 2: I don't you know, I have never seen anyone dressed

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Speaker 2: up as that in an official capacity for Starbucks, but

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Speaker 2: it's very much a part of the brand and you

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Speaker 2: recognize it like, Okay, there it is. It's a creature,

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Speaker 2: but it doesn't have much personality. But you could say

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Speaker 2: it's sort of a mascot.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think the Starbucks Mermaid and Ronald McDonald are

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Speaker 3: a good comparison, except a couple of differences with most eurokiara.

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Speaker 3: I think they tend to be more shaped like pillows

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Speaker 3: than either of those characters, where Ronald McDonald and the

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Speaker 3: Starbucks Mermaid are more kind of humanoid, like leaner, more

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Speaker 3: humanoid representations most erukiara, though there's some variation between them.

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Speaker 3: Most of them are more like a large, walking plushy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like Grimace of the McDonald's crew would be a

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Speaker 2: better example. He would fit the mold more of the

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Speaker 2: euro kiara, as would I would say the Michelin.

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Speaker 3: Man, yes, yeah, or the stay Puffed marshmallow Man exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: But another thing is that both of those are corporate mascots,

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Speaker 3: and so we're familiar with like corporate mascots in America,

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Speaker 3: like sports team mascots. But imagine if a broader range

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Speaker 3: of cultural institutions and objects could have mascots. So you

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Speaker 3: can have a mascot for a town, a mascot for

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Speaker 3: a region, a mascot for a piece of public infrastructure,

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Speaker 3: or a mascot for an agricultural product.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's where it instantly begins to become my

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Speaker 2: obvious I think to do to to guideen and Westerners

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Speaker 2: that you realize, oh, well, a chemical company that is

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Speaker 2: not marketing anything towards children will have one of these,

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Speaker 2: as will like the local sewage treatment plan. So it's uh,

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Speaker 2: it runs in directions you might not expect. And then

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Speaker 2: you find or if I have found anyway sort of

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Speaker 2: digging into it, then there are there are like corporate

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Speaker 2: companies that you might expect to have gotten into it

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Speaker 2: that seemingly haven't. Like, as far as I can tell,

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Speaker 2: Pilot Pins, the Pilot Corporation based in Japan, they have

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Speaker 2: no uru kiara that I can tell. Maybe I just

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Speaker 2: couldn't find them. But then so, not every company company

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Speaker 2: is getting in on this, and it is it seems

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Speaker 2: like it's more often that you do find them in

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Speaker 2: various like city or prefecture associated organizations. All right, so

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Speaker 2: what does this word mean? Euro Kiara is actually fairly

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Speaker 2: complex to break down as a translation. One paper I

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Speaker 2: was looking out for this as a twenty sixteen paper

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Speaker 2: called who is Hikonyan The Phenomenon of Japanese Urukiara by

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Speaker 2: Gillian Ray Sutter, this twenty sixteen publication, and they point

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Speaker 2: out that the term here is short for the code

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Speaker 2: mixed uru mascot character, So you already know what mascot

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Speaker 2: character is, and that just becomes kiaru. But the uru

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Speaker 2: here may be translated as loose, easy, lazy, careless, half hearted,

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Speaker 2: or lenient, according to Sutter. And I've also seen lax

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Speaker 2: and soft invoked in translation as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I did a little digging on this word yurui,

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Speaker 3: which is spelled usually in English why you are you? I?

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Speaker 3: And it seems to have some different clusters of connotations.

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Speaker 3: So Japanese speakers right in and correct me if I'm

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Speaker 3: getting anything wrong here, But I'm doing best to figure

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Speaker 3: out all the different to untangle all this. It seems

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Speaker 3: like it literally means loose, slack, or soft, but when

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Speaker 3: applied to a person or creature, indicates something like relaxed,

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Speaker 3: chilled out, laid back, or lazy. So I think in

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Speaker 3: this facet of the words meaning the dude from The

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Speaker 3: Big Lebowski would be a type of yurui, but it

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Speaker 3: would also seem to apply to characters that are more gentle,

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Speaker 3: light hearted, sweet, and non threatening. So something that is

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Speaker 3: yurui maybe has some overlap with cuteness, but is also

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Speaker 3: like no big deal. Also, an academic essay that I'm

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Speaker 3: going to cite later in this episode translates yurukiara as

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Speaker 3: wobbly characters, and that brings in another aspect of them.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if wobbliness is itself at all implied

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Speaker 3: by yurui, but the author who coined this term originally

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Speaker 3: specified that an important thing about them is the they

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Speaker 3: have sort of like awkward or unstable movements. I think

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Speaker 3: that's a key part of their cuteness appeal. But anyway,

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Speaker 3: I don't know if we really have a term in

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Speaker 3: English that connects all these different connotations that I'm seeing

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Speaker 3: with yurui. But the way I understand it is that

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Speaker 3: is that these yurui characters are They're soft, they're easy going,

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Speaker 3: they're a little bit awkward, they're cute, they're non threatening,

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Speaker 3: and they are not telling you to hurry up and

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Speaker 3: get those spreadsheets finished. They're just they're just hanging out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's that's pretty accurate from what I've

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Speaker 2: read and what I've seen. And the interesting thing is, though,

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Speaker 2: even though they are very lax and very chill, and

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Speaker 2: they might be doing nothing more than just being that

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Speaker 2: representing this company or this you know, public works department,

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Speaker 2: but also they can and sometimes are invoked in situations

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Speaker 2: or or in causes that are serious, but they keep

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Speaker 2: that laxness. So I'll get a specific example of this

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Speaker 2: in the second episode we do. But it's like, your

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Speaker 2: particular mascot may be like, Hey, I'm just being chill,

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Speaker 2: I'm vibing, I'm cute and approachable, but try not to

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Speaker 2: fall in the train tracks.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, let me remind you about public health precautions,

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Speaker 3: but in a very non threatening, chilled out way.

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Speaker 2: Exactly now, they are pretty much, without exception cute. I

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Speaker 2: think if you look around, there are so many of them,

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Speaker 2: as we'll get into there's basically an unknown number of them,

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Speaker 2: and there's not uniform quality. Most of them are amazing,

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Speaker 2: but some of them there have been occasionally one or

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Speaker 2: two that I've seen where it's like, I don't know

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Speaker 2: that this concept really working. Maybe they should have workshopped

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Speaker 2: this a little bit more, but they are pretty much,

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Speaker 2: without exception cute, and therefore I think they're a fine

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Speaker 2: example of the larger Japanese concept of cuteness kauhai and

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Speaker 2: its various subsets.

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Speaker 3: Rob, I don't know if you came across the same thing,

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Speaker 3: but there are a few that I almost understood to

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Speaker 3: be considered cute in the way that they fail to

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Speaker 3: be cute. That they're like something that is understood as

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Speaker 3: an attempt to be cute that is unsuccessful and is

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Speaker 3: in fact ugly, which itself is cute.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about. And this

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Speaker 2: might actually relate to some of the subsets of kauai

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Speaker 2: that I find pretty interesting, Like, for instance, there there

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Speaker 2: is or was I'm not sure if this term is

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Speaker 2: still relevant, but kauai noir, which is dark cute, so

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Speaker 2: it's creepy cute, and therefore sometimes it may feel like

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Speaker 2: it's like falling short of true cuteness, or the mask

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Speaker 2: of cuteness is slipping away from horror.

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Speaker 3: One of the academic essays I was reading about Urikiara

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Speaker 3: talked about this concept of gross cute. It's a type

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Speaker 3: of cuteness in Japanese culture that didn't apply to any

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Speaker 3: particular URUQR, but to other bear characters in cartoons specifically,

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Speaker 3: I think like a rotting zombie bear.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, yeah, there was one called angry Bear

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Speaker 2: I think I remember this was years and years ago.

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Speaker 2: That is like an actual bear and he ends up

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Speaker 2: mauling the cute human characters in his vicinity because he's

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Speaker 2: an actual pair. But there's yeah, there's this other area

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Speaker 2: that I believe is referred to as pitiful cute, and

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Speaker 2: I think there is also some sort of level of

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Speaker 2: crossover in Japanese language between pitiful and cute that maybe

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Speaker 2: doesn't like they're too separate in English and maybe they're

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Speaker 2: more connected in Japanese. It's my loose understanding, but you

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Speaker 2: have this pitiful cute area that I think arguably includes

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Speaker 2: such examples as Goodi Tama, the Lazy Egg, which I

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Speaker 2: know a number of you are familiar with now because

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Speaker 2: he's really blown up and has his own Netflix series.

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Speaker 2: He's amazing. And then there's this other character that I

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Speaker 2: only discovered while in Japan, and this is a Panchu Yusagi.

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Speaker 2: She is like a little pink rabbit in like old

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Speaker 2: Granny underpants, and I think her name basically means like

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Speaker 2: Pamper's rabbit. And she goes about trying to do things

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Speaker 2: that are sweet and cute and have like sweet, cute,

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Speaker 2: meaningful experiences, generally in like two panel cartoons, and something

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Speaker 2: goes wrong, and so there is kind of this. She

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Speaker 2: often looks kind of weird in the second panel because

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Speaker 2: she's either embarrassed or she's angry. Expectations have not met

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Speaker 2: up with reality.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you shared this with with JJ and me, and

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Speaker 3: I thought this was really funny. It seems like they're

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Speaker 3: often centered around but like an awkward social misunderstanding, Like

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Speaker 3: there was one comic you shared with somebody waving and

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Speaker 3: then this character waving back at them, but then it's

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Speaker 3: clear that the original character was waving for a cab.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that sort of thing, and it's really good

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Speaker 2: and most of it has no language associated with it,

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Speaker 2: so you can look it up on Instagram and plow

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Speaker 2: through them, which is what I did. I mean, I also,

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Speaker 2: I want to stress I also did things like I

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Speaker 2: saw Mount Fuji while I was there, but I mostly

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Speaker 2: end up talking about things like this.

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Speaker 3: Oh but wait, doesn't the Mount Fuji region have its

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Speaker 3: own mascot?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, And I'll definitely come back to that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: anywhere you go there there's there's some sort of it

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Speaker 2: basically comes down to like how visible are they going

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Speaker 2: to be? You know, how many posters and so forth.

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Speaker 2: But I want to come back to just the concept

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Speaker 2: of cuteness and kawhi and broader detail here, because I

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Speaker 2: think it is key. It's one of the key sort

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Speaker 2: of tripod legs or even like table legs to understanding

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Speaker 2: this whole concept. And I was I was looking around

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Speaker 2: for a good source on this, and I found an

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Speaker 2: article on Ian magazine titled The Great Regression by Tokyo

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Speaker 2: based translator, writer and speaker Matt Alt who also co

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Speaker 2: wrote a trio of very fun books on Yo Kai

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Speaker 2: Yuri and Ninja's which two of those I've read with

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Speaker 2: my son and the other one I have on the

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Speaker 2: shelf ready to go, in addition to other books dealing

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Speaker 2: with Japanese culture that he's pinned over the years. And

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Speaker 2: so this article in general is a very good read.

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Speaker 2: It deals with this idea that there's like this larger

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Speaker 2: trend in the world of adults taking an interest in

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Speaker 2: things associated with childhood, arguably when they should not be,

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Speaker 2: which I want to stress here is a not a

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Speaker 2: concept that I feel one hundred percent okay with. It's

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Speaker 2: just kind of like a judgment call of how grown

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Speaker 2: up to spend their lives and make their choices.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we could take normative judgments out of it

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Speaker 3: and just talk about the phenomenon. It does seem like

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Speaker 3: there's been a clear trend, I think in the last

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Speaker 3: couple of decades at least in my knowledge in the

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Speaker 3: US context, of more of a tendency for adults living

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Speaker 3: adult lives to engage with say media men for children.

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Speaker 3: I mean, especially like you know, nostalgic media that they

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Speaker 3: liked when they were kids, and you know, you can

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Speaker 3: ask interesting questions about like what drives that kind of

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Speaker 3: that kind of interest.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And I want to stress that the alt

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Speaker 2: article here is very good and is ultimately not trying

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Speaker 2: to grind an act in that direction. But but my

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Speaker 2: my sort of gut response to just the concept of

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Speaker 2: it is like I end up, you know, going back

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Speaker 2: to that old C. S. Lewis quote, you know, when

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Speaker 2: I became a man, I put away childish things, including

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Speaker 2: the fear of childishness and the desire to be very

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Speaker 2: grown up, you know, because like ultimately, like what are

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Speaker 2: adults supposed to be doing? You know, you get into

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Speaker 2: that whole question, and and and also like the unreality

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Speaker 2: of the idea that that in the old days adults

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Speaker 2: didn't do things like play games or or craft you know,

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Speaker 2: fiction for children and so forth.

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Speaker 3: I feel like the most childish thing one could actually

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Speaker 3: say is like, you know, that's for babies. I'm not

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Speaker 3: a baby. Yeah, yeah, nothing makes you sound more like

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Speaker 3: a baby.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So anyway, in this article all lays out this idea,

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Speaker 2: this concept that many people in the contemporary Western world

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Speaker 2: have entered into a kind of global second childhood in

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Speaker 2: response to various social, economic, and local health factors over

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Speaker 2: the last decade or two. And this is wrapped up

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Speaker 2: in the whole idea of they're like the Great Regression.

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Speaker 2: And in this the idea is that has arguably occurred

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Speaker 2: in Japan during the nineties. Quote, when the youth and

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Speaker 2: young adults of a hyper connected post industrial society lose

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Speaker 2: faith in the future, the Great regression is inevitable. And

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Speaker 2: I have to admit, And he points out as well

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Speaker 2: that this sounds grim and again I personally feel certain

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Speaker 2: amount of resistance to the idea. But he goes on

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Speaker 2: in an interesting direction here, arguing that this large scale

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Speaker 2: cultural interest in the things of childhood can be in

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Speaker 2: net positive and that this is where where it gets

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Speaker 2: into the mindset that I can connect with. Alt writes quote,

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Speaker 2: Under the right circumstances, regression can nourish. It can be

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Speaker 2: a form of progression, a form of experimentation and creative play.

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Speaker 2: It can pave the way for new ways of thinking

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Speaker 2: and living. It can spawn new trends and identities and lifestyles.

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Speaker 2: These become essential tools for navigating the strange new frontiers

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Speaker 2: of mind life, and as we adopt them, they transform

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Speaker 2: our definition of what it means to lead healthy adult lives.

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Speaker 2: So the historic underpinning here is that is Alt lays

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Speaker 2: out Japan's post war economy was extremely ascended from the

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventies through roughly nineteen ninety one, and was even

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Speaker 2: expected to overtake the US economy, something that ended up

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Speaker 2: being echoed and warped in contemporary, certainly American culture at

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Speaker 2: the time, even in racist and hateful ways, like you know,

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Speaker 2: up to and including acts of physical violence. And it's

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Speaker 2: also in other ways, like you see it referenced in

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Speaker 2: the sci fi tapestries of you know, futuristic cyberpunk visions.

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Speaker 2: You know, this idea that the future, there's something about

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Speaker 2: the future that will be predominantly Japanese, that sort of thing,

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Speaker 2: and you still see that in sort of like retro

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Speaker 2: futuristic cyberpunk visions. It like just becomes sort of baked

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Speaker 2: in to the concept and into the world building. But

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Speaker 2: then in nineteen ninety one, there's this economic burst. People

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Speaker 2: coped or didn't as best they could, and there was

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Speaker 2: this kind of slide away from the capitalist pursuit of

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Speaker 2: the salarymen, you know, the stereotypical you know, employee worker

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Speaker 2: that's out there just really busting it. And then you know,

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, you know, you have

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Speaker 2: a few beers and then you go to sleep, and

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Speaker 2: you wake up and you do it all again. And

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Speaker 2: there was a slide away from all of that into

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Speaker 2: interest that were previously more niche. And this all brings

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Speaker 2: us to Kuwai quote. Salarymen may have built Japan ink,

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Speaker 2: but when it crumbled, young people picked up the pieces.

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Speaker 2: The real trendsetters were young women, ranging from schoolgirls to

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Speaker 2: office ladies, the female counterparts of the salarymen. They began

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Speaker 2: unabashedly incorporating symbols of feminine childhood into their adult identities,

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Speaker 2: upending entire industries. So the power of kuai, a Japanese

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Speaker 2: word that overlaps with cuteness, but which is also a

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Speaker 2: state of mind that refers to being adorable, playful, just

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Speaker 2: begging for cuddles like a kitten or a baby. By

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two, One Woman's magazine anointed kawai the most

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Speaker 2: widely used, widely loved habitual word in modern living Japanese.

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Speaker 3: So it's a kind of fascination, especially beginning with younger

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Speaker 3: women in Japan, but sort of taking over the whole

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Speaker 3: culture in a way and becoming a very economically important concept.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, and one that even though you know, there's

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Speaker 2: a load about kuai that's distinctly Japanese, and you know

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Speaker 2: we're already talking and we'll continue to talk about that,

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Speaker 2: but obviously it's also something that anyone can look at

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Speaker 2: and feel connection to, you know, it's it's ultimately it

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Speaker 2: has universal appeal. So anyway, all goes on to argument

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Speaker 2: while critics love to see all of this, either in

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Speaker 2: Japan or elsewhere, as a moral failure, as an inward

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Speaker 2: escape into fantasy. He stresses that it's much more than that,

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Speaker 2: and in the example of Japanese pop culture, it didn't

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Speaker 2: just result in an endlessen we're inward gays, but also

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Speaker 2: resulted in new modes of social change, adaptation to changing times,

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Speaker 2: and the advancement of whole industries. So anyway, it's a

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Speaker 2: great article worth checking out in full. But I think

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Speaker 2: the key things to keep in mind for our purposes

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Speaker 2: here are that number one, there was a hyper charging

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Speaker 2: of kauwhai in Japanese culture during the nineteen nineties. And

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Speaker 2: again too, it doesn't occur in a bubble, but it

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Speaker 2: also isn't a bubble, if that makes sense. Like, this

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean that there was nothing cute prior to that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, to the contrary, there was this strong, you know,

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Speaker 2: element of cuteness, appreciation of like small decorative objects and

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Speaker 2: so forth in Japan, and this was like just a

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Speaker 2: hyper charging of that. And you can also point to

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Speaker 2: examples like Hello Kitty, one of the ambassadors of kauai

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Speaker 2: dates back to seventy five, and you know, as we've

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Speaker 2: discussed in the show before, you have this long standing

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Speaker 2: Japanese fascination with house cats, and cats feature very strongly

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Speaker 2: into various forms of kauai and also kawai as manifested

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Speaker 2: in Japanese handwriting goes back to the seventies and so forth,

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Speaker 2: and I think you can make similar observes about this.

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Speaker 2: You know, the ideas of regression over here. You know,

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Speaker 2: people are pointing out, oh you have you have adults

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Speaker 2: with no children going to Disney World, adults with no

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Speaker 2: children buying lego sets. You know, these are things that

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Speaker 2: pre existed any observations of widespread regression by decades. So

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Speaker 2: you know, none of this is coming out of nowhere.

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Speaker 3: I think it's hard to deny the appeal of legos

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Speaker 3: to anyone. The way they snap together, that's just good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. My son and I just built an ornithopter.

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Speaker 2: It was it was challenging and rewarding. Anyway, coming back

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Speaker 2: to Urukiara again, it's just essential that these are not

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Speaker 2: just aimed at kids. They're representing a wide range of

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Speaker 2: regional governments or governmental agencies and all sorts of different businesses,

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Speaker 2: but not all businesses. For instance, I ran across one

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Speaker 2: very adorable pig urukiara that is a pink pig, very

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Speaker 2: cute inside of like bubbles, like he's covered from bubbles,

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Speaker 2: like he just got out of a bubble bath. His

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Speaker 2: name is Awabutta and he is the mascot of Eagle

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Speaker 2: Star Chemicals. So it's companies, you know like that. I

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Speaker 2: don't know anything about Eagle Star Chemicals, but I'm assuming

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Speaker 2: that they are not, you know, particularly like child oriented

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Speaker 2: in their marketing and so forth. But they have this

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Speaker 2: adorable mascot.

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Speaker 3: Why is the pig surrounded in bubbles? Oh no, this

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Speaker 3: is not a pig that's dissolving in a vat of

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Speaker 3: why is it.

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Speaker 2: No, he's happy, he's cute.

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Speaker 3: Okay, it's a happy pig. It does look happy, does

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Speaker 3: not look to be dissolving.

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Speaker 2: Now, as we've pointed out, these these mascots, these zero

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Speaker 2: kara often are personified and brought into physical reality via

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Speaker 2: a costume, and as Eddie yl Chang points out in

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Speaker 2: the twenty eighteen article, let the euro Kiara do the job,

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00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 2: they essentially have the life of a celebrity spokesperson. They

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Speaker 2: make public appearances again in suit form, they participate in

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Speaker 2: charity and outreach initiatives. And I have to read this

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Speaker 2: passage from Cheng's article. This was published in the Japanese

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Speaker 2: studies journal Mira, and this is brilliant quote. Urukiara do

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Speaker 2: not just have a realistic profile and job. Part of

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Speaker 2: their public relations work involves them having a life, for instance,

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Speaker 2: and he refers to a picture in the article. In Fig.

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Speaker 2: Seven we see Rinkachan from Katsuragi City in Nara Prefecture

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Speaker 2: quote unquote falling for sinto Kun and baked a cake

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Speaker 2: for him for his second birthday in an attempt to

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Speaker 2: win his heart and become his girlfriend. It is striking

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Speaker 2: that this was reported in the Nara Keise Shimbun business newspaper,

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Speaker 2: an indication that Urukiara are considered by people as social

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Speaker 2: members in a world where the line between reality and

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Speaker 2: fantasy is often unclear. And I need to stress that

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Speaker 2: Sinto Kun is a young boy with deer antlers because

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Speaker 2: Nara is known for its it's dear. Rinkachan is like

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Speaker 2: a cartoon princess. And this is news of this not

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Speaker 2: even engagement, but possible girlfriend boyfriend scenario was published in

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Speaker 2: what I can only imagine would be like if there's

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Speaker 2: a Wall Street Journal article about it in the US.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh.

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Speaker 3: Santo Kun, by the way, I should point out, is

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Speaker 3: one of the mascots that I had read described as

429
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 3: ugly in acute way. According to some people, it is

430
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 3: just a bold boy with antlers. Apparently some people find

431
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,719
Speaker 3: the antlers off putting, but in a way that actually

432
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 3: comes full circle and makes it cute.

433
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 2: I would agree with that. I think that was the

434
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 2: roller coaster I went on when I first glimpsed him,

435
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know, okay, okay, it's cute.

436
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: By the way, if you really want to like supercharge

437
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 2: your knowledge of what these various yurokiara look like, I

438
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 2: highly recommend checking out the Instagram feed for Mondo mascots.

439
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 2: You can get hit by new ones every day. It's

440
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: a wonderful experience, especially if you are not in where

441
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 2: you can encounter them in the wild. Now, one thing

442
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: that Star points out in her article that referenced earlier

443
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 2: is that, yeah, these mascots are not only far more popular,

444
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 2: but they're compared to say, US mascots, but they're also

445
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 2: far more numerous, and indeed their full number is probably uncountable.

446
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 2: And potentially out of control, something that has been a

447
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,360
Speaker 2: topic of some concern. I don't know how ultimately how

448
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 2: concerned you can get about mascots getting out of control,

449
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: but it has been on everyone's radar for a bit.

450
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 3: I might go out on a limb and say I'm

451
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 3: not worried about it.

452
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,479
Speaker 2: Well, they didn't. There are some details that everyone has

453
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 2: to take into account here. But she decides a twenty

454
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: fifteen story in The Guardian detailing a move by the

455
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: government of Osaka to cut down on the number of

456
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 2: mascots in Osaka government offices because this apparent and ultimately

457
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 2: this ended up resulting in there cutting down from something

458
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: like ninety two to sixty nine mascots in twenty fifteen.

459
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if that held, if they've been able

460
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 2: to hold it at sixty nine, or if that has

461
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 2: gone up again. And according to Bloomberg, that same year,

462
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 2: the Japanese government announced a nationwide crackdown on yurokiara from

463
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 2: a cost cutting standpoint. So again, it's not the idea

464
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: that people were saying. You know, I don't think that

465
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 2: the Kashiwa City Sewer Department needs its own mascot, though

466
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: it does or had one named Rinko Chan a Lotus

467
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 2: ferry riding on a leaf. It's not that they that that,

468
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 2: you know, politicians and government workers were saying, we can't

469
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: have things like cute things like this in life. They

470
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 2: were just saying, you know, it's costing too much money.

471
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 2: You know, someone has to design them. If you have

472
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 2: a suit, someone has to wear that suit. If you're

473
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 2: printing up a bunch of promotional materials with that character,

474
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: well then you know that's an added cost. And you know,

475
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: some of the estimates that I've read with particular mascots,

476
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: it was like it was getting pretty pricey, and I

477
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: get it, Like, imagine if for stuff to blow your mind,

478
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 2: we decide I did, Okay, not only do we need

479
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: our own Eurokiara for the show, but we need separate

480
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 2: Eurokiara for Weird House Cinema for each of our Wednesday

481
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: short form shows. Listener Mail needs one. We need a

482
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 2: vault centric Eurokiara. It would be a bit much, and

483
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: I could understand our corporate masters being a little resistant

484
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 2: to the addition of an additional four to five mascots.

485
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 3: Okay, here's what it is. A super Kowhi rendering of

486
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 3: Christoph Lambert, but the old man version from the beginning

487
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 3: of pilot or two. Just make it cute somehow.

488
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: I can imagine it. I can imagine, but I can

489
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 2: also imagine what it was that Lambert Productions being a

490
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: little week ago. Yeah, oh yeah. Is there a way

491
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: you could animize it, like by thirty five percent?

492
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he would be he would have lamb characteristics,

493
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 3: little tiny like buds of ram horns.

494
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 2: Maybe okay, and then you have Ramirez and maybe he's

495
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: a bear. Hmm.

496
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 3: I don't know, we're getting there.

497
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 2: So anyway, I you know it as a guiding tourist.

498
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 2: For my part, I never got tired of seeing this

499
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 2: endless parade of cube mascots, but I could see where

500
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 2: the prize could get out of hand. But on the

501
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 2: other side of the issue, I can you know, I

502
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,959
Speaker 2: see I realized not only my own enthusiasm, but I've

503
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 2: also seen this reference in various articles dealing with him,

504
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 2: talking about how they've really caught on not only with

505
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: Japanese residents but also with tourists, also becoming instrumental in

506
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: international relations. So, you know, I wonder if it's something

507
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 2: that while they maybe do the cost cutting, if it's

508
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: something they could lean into even more from like a

509
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 2: tourism standpoint, you know, you know, like a kind of

510
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: like a bird watcher's guide, but just for euro Kiar.

511
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 3: Oh well, the way I understood it, especially some of

512
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 3: the like regional township mascots were specifically, at least in

513
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 3: part aimed at at attracting tourists.

514
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 2: Oh definitely. Yeah, there are ones that are associated with

515
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: directly with tourism. But it's like, I don't want to

516
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 2: just know about the tourism related ones. I want to

517
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 2: know about the sewage departments. They're all so interesting. I

518
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: want to catch them all.

519
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 3: And there have been attempts to reckon with the multitudes

520
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 3: of mascots because I don't know if they're doing it

521
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 3: in the most recent years, but for a while there

522
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 3: they were holding in Japan a Eurokiara Grand Prix.

523
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: That's right. This began in twenty eleven as a way

524
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 2: to specifically to help revitalize various regions in Japan by

525
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 2: highlighting their mascots, and it featured like a really cool

526
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 2: website which is still around. You can look up in

527
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: lots of mascot pictures, and participants could vote online for

528
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: their favorites in both a regional and a business division,

529
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: but by twenty twenty apparently, I think the last one

530
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 2: was in twenty twenty because it was deemed that this

531
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: had just become too competitive with competing regions and or

532
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: companies lobbying like super hard to get those online votes,

533
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: and it was just decided. I'm not sure exactly who

534
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: decided this, but it was decided that, you know what,

535
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 2: this is betraying the spirit of what these characters should be,

536
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 2: and we're just not going to do it anymore.

537
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 3: I feel like if it were taken too seriously, it

538
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 3: would not be yurui.

539
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 2: That's right. It's supposed to be laid back. It's supposed

540
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 2: to be lax. And ultimately, yeah, it's like, if you're

541
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 2: if you're putting all this effort into getting votes, you know,

542
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: that's that's not laid back. If you're spending you know,

543
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 2: close to a million dollars on your lax character, I

544
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: don't know how lax they are anymore, you know, So

545
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 2: I guess we have to take that into consideration with

546
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 2: these criticisms here.

547
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 3: Now, where does this cultural concept come from? The term urukia?

548
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 3: Most of the sources I was looking at give credit

549
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 3: to a Japanese manga author and I think sort of

550
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 3: social critic, an essayist named June Mura, who coined the

551
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 3: term urukyara in I've actually seen different years cited for this.

552
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 3: An essay that I'm going to get into in just

553
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 3: a bit pins it in the year two thousand and four.

554
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 3: But according to Mura, there are three characteristics that define

555
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 3: a urukyara. The one we've already mentioned is the concept

556
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 3: of urui, which has these connotations of like soft, loose, relaxed,

557
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 3: laid back, weak, gentle, non threatening, no big deal. The

558
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 3: second characteristic is a strong sense of love or passion

559
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 3: for the home region that they represent. And then third

560
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 3: is awkward, wobbly, strange, unique or unstable movements. And that

561
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 3: seems like a very specific kind of criterion, but maybe

562
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 3: later in this series we'll come back to that and

563
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 3: zero in on the unstable movements, because I think that

564
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 3: is a more psycho logically important criterion then one might

565
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 3: assume at first. An interesting thing about these criteria is

566
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 3: that they sort of implied that the character must have

567
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 3: an embodied form, So a lot of times these mascots

568
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 3: only appear as you know, as drawings as two dimensional representations,

569
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 3: but it implies that they must at some point move

570
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 3: right to have these strange, unstable movements, and so I

571
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 3: think this does connect to the fact that most of

572
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 3: these characters do have an embodied form or at some

573
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 3: time in place a human inside a suit. But anyway,

574
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,239
Speaker 3: I think it would be useful to just look at

575
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 3: a few examples of Yurukyr that stick out to us.

576
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I want to start with one that

577
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: that ties into what we were talking about earlier about

578
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 2: tourism and both domestic and international, because the one I

579
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 2: want to highlight first is ultimately a pretty simple one.

580
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 2: This is not a complex or super weird one, but

581
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: one that my family fell in love with rather quickly.

582
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: His name is Hako Geo and he is the mascot

583
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: of Hakone Geopark. So Hakone is a beautiful mountain area

584
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: with sometimes views of Mount Fuji. It kind of depends

585
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: on where exactly you are in what the clouds are doing,

586
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: because it's it's a shy mountain sometimes and we luckily

587
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: we got we got a little peak there at the peak,

588
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 2: but you're not guaranteed that with Mount Fuji. But anyway,

589
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 2: it's full of This region is full of natural hot springs.

590
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: It has some fun museums. The ways to get around

591
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 2: are amazing because you have, of course, you know, great trains,

592
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 2: but then cable cars, gondolas, pirate ships are part of

593
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 2: the public transportation system there to get across, criss crossing

594
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 2: this lake there, and there's in so much more. There

595
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 2: are restaurants and so forth is the fourth It's a

596
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: beautiful area and every step of the way we saw

597
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: signage with hako Geo there to tell us what we

598
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 2: were doing, right, where to go, and how much we

599
00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: should be enjoying Hakone and he does occasionally take physics

600
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 2: in a costume, but we did not see him in

601
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: such form. It was not one of those days. Okay,

602
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 2: So the design of this character is nothing to elaborate.

603
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 2: It is just a cute person. I'm not sure if

604
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 2: it's a boy or what. And they're very cartoony, just

605
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 2: a bright, glorious face. They're so happy. And this person

606
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 2: is wearing a hat shaped like the mountains of Halkoni,

607
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: like three peaks, a bigger one in the center. And

608
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: it's just still amazing. I just felt the looseness every

609
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 2: time I looked at him. I was a little surprised

610
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,439
Speaker 2: that there wasn't a lot of merch for this guy,

611
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: because by the end of our brief stay in Hakone

612
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 2: like I wanted more. I was like, yes, let me

613
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: have a shot at the Hagajio merch but it didn't

614
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: seem to be. There was barely any of it. But

615
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 2: of course this is not the case with every eurokiara.

616
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 2: Some of them are merchandise superstars.

617
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 3: That's right. So if you know Rob and I, you

618
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 3: probably know that we're going to be drawn to some

619
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 3: of the weirder and more obscure matth scots as we

620
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 3: highlight some more in the next episode or two. But

621
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 3: we should definitely mention the heavy hitters as well. And

622
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 3: one of the most famous yurokiara in Japan and around

623
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 3: the world is Kumaman, which is a mascot created in

624
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 3: the year two thousand and nine to represent the Kumamoto

625
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 3: Prefecture of western Kshu and to boost local products, spur trade,

626
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,919
Speaker 3: and attract tourists. This character was debuted at the same

627
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 3: time that a high speed rail line connecting the region

628
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 3: was completed in the year twenty eleven. I believe now

629
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 3: I will get to a source in just a minute.

630
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 3: That disputes the essential nature of what I'm about to describe.

631
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 3: But I have to start just by reporting my own

632
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 3: perception and first impression looking at Kumaman, and that is

633
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,919
Speaker 3: that Kumaman looks like an adorable bipedal black bear, sort

634
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 3: of pear shaped in the body, with a white muzzle,

635
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 3: large eyes with curious curved brow, sort of arched eyebrows

636
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 3: over them, and prominent bright red cherry cheeks. Kumaman was

637
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 3: the winner of the urukiar A Grand Prix in twenty eleven.

638
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 3: I think that was the first year they had the competition,

639
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 3: So he's a big early winner and incredibly popular.

640
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely adorable, looking, very huggable, just yeah, phenomenally cute

641
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: and reassuring, very soft. Yeah yeah.

642
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 3: Now, like many urukya, Kumaman plays a big role in

643
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 3: marketing and advertising for a particular region. In this case,

644
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 3: again the Kumamoto Prefecture, and Kumaman in particular has been

645
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 3: judged a huge success. At this goal, I was reading

646
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 3: an I Triple E paper by Nakasato and Tanaka about

647
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 3: using machine image analysis to predict the popularity of these mascots.

648
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,280
Speaker 3: By the way, the results of that was that people

649
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 3: seem to like bright colors, especially on the yellow green spectrum,

650
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 3: so bright yellow greens seem to be the most popular.

651
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 3: But Kumaman, of course, is an exception. Anyway, in the

652
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 3: intro of this article, they just happened to summarize a

653
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 3: Japanese news article which included a figure from the Kumamoto

654
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 3: branch of the Bank of Japan estimating that Kumaman alone

655
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 3: had generated one hundred and twenty four billion Japanese yen

656
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 3: worth of economic activity just in the two year period

657
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 3: from twenty eleven to twenty twelve. I tried to look

658
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 3: a conversion rate, and that's something like seven hundred and

659
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 3: seventy million US dollars today. Don't know what that would

660
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 3: have been in twenty twelve. But yeah, so this is

661
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 3: a big business, an adorable creature, a beautiful, incredibly cute design,

662
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 3: a cultural phenomenon, but also a big money maker.

663
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't argue with those figures. No matter how

664
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 2: much it costs to design it or make the costume,

665
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 2: this guy paid off.

666
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 3: Now, the likeness of this character is used in all

667
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 3: different kinds of marketing contexts, seems to appear he seems

668
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 3: to pop up in you know, photos, like in a

669
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 3: costume with a beautiful natural landscape behind him, like hey,

670
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 3: you know, come visit Kumamoto Prefecture, but also appears on

671
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 3: the packaging of products and so forth. But some uses

672
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 3: of this character go hard, and go hard almost into

673
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 3: bizarre territory. One example is I found an article from

674
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 3: twenty sixteen about a recent promotion for Kumamoto tourism which

675
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 3: involved filling a hall in Osaka Station with dozens and

676
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 3: dozens of kumaman representations of various sorts. Some are three

677
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 3: dimensional models, some are two D cutouts like you know,

678
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 3: cardboard stands. Some are banners that hang from light posts.

679
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 3: One is a giant, just a giant kumaman head that

680
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 3: has like spotlights aimed at it curiously. A lot of

681
00:38:55,400 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 3: these representations have little variations on the character. One is

682
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 3: wearing a pink scarf, one is holding an apple, one

683
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 3: has its eyes closed usually they're wide open. So these

684
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 3: strange little variations, and all of these images are of

685
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 3: this same excruciatingly cute bear like organism. But the way

686
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 3: they're lined up in these columns stretching down the hall,

687
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 3: it's almost like you are looking at a bunch of

688
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 3: storm troopers standing at attention on the Death Star. It's

689
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 3: a bit menacing, and from what I can tell, Rob,

690
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 3: I don't know if you picked up on the same thing.

691
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 3: It seems like some cultural uses of yurukiara seem to

692
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 3: embrace this kind of irony.

693
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know when I look at it. They're certainly

694
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 2: the feeling of like, okay, an army of kumaman's are

695
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 2: here for me. But also it's like, well, kumaman he

696
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 2: represents the way I want to feel. And now they're

697
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 2: all of them here, and they all have different expressions,

698
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 2: different emotional states, and I realize that maybe I'm not

699
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,399
Speaker 2: one person either. Maybe I'm multiple people just spread out

700
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 2: across time and there's no there's no definite identity or reality.

701
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 2: I don't know that that was their intention.

702
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so another strange, ironic use of kumaman. I was

703
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 3: not aware of this meme when it popped up, but

704
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 3: apparently sometime around twenty eleven, this adorable, rosy cheeked bear

705
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 3: became the subject of a minor meme in which he

706
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 3: was depicted in front of something that's on fire, and

707
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 3: the text was always for the glory of Satan.

708
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 2: Of course, Now this was not an official usage, right.

709
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 3: This memes on the internet, okay, And in fact I

710
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 3: want to turn into an essay that in one part

711
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 3: does address perplexity of people over why Kumaman is used

712
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 3: in this meme. So I was trying to learn more

713
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 3: about Kumaman and I came across a fascinating essay on

714
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 3: this character and on the broader you werekire phenomenon. It

715
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 3: was called Kumaman, Japan's surprisingly Cheeky Mascot by Debor j

716
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 3: Ochi in a book introducing Japanese popular culture published twenty

717
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 3: twenty three by Rutledge. This book is edited by a

718
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 3: professor of Japanese literature at the University of Oregon named

719
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 3: Elisa Friedman. But again the essay is by Debor je Ochi.

720
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 3: So I'm not going to have time to get into

721
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 3: everything the author brings up in this article, but I'll

722
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 3: go through and hit some highlights that I thought were interesting.

723
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 3: One is about the literal origin of this character. So,

724
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 3: Kumaman began as part of a regional advertising and pr

725
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 3: campaign called Kumamoto Surprise, the goal of which was to

726
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 3: give Kumamoto residents a new sense of local pride and

727
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 3: to sort of delight tourists and visitors with what Kumamoto

728
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 3: had to offer in terms of natural landscapes and local cuisine.

729
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 3: And the story goes that originally, a Kumamoto born designer

730
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 3: named Koyama Kundo set out to design a logo just

731
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 3: on the theme of Kumamoto Surprise, but his art director,

732
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 3: who was named Mizuno Manabu, included as a surprise this

733
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 3: new character, Kumaman, which allegedly went through three thousand draft

734
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 3: variations before he reached his final form. That's how the

735
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 3: story goes. I don't know, three thousand drafts. What do

736
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 3: you think I mean?

737
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 2: That's it' that's evolution right there, right.

738
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, all the generations. But what are so

739
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 3: I've already described him looks like a black bear with

740
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 3: a very cute face, a wide eyes, kind of curious expression,

741
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 3: the red rosy circles on the cheeks. But what were

742
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 3: the visual influences on Kumaman? According to this essay, the

743
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 3: creators have cited Santa Clause and a New York Yankees

744
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 3: baseball player named Matsui Hideki. I initially found this somewhat perplexing,

745
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 3: but it makes more sense the more I thought about it.

746
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 3: So I will say that Santa sort of has the

747
00:42:53,880 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 3: Kumaman build, and what all three sharing common is prominent cheeks.

748
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 3: So Santa Claus is often depicted with rosy red cheeks.

749
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 3: I don't know anything about baseball, so I was not

750
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 3: familiar with this player. But I looked up pictures of

751
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 3: Matsui Hideki, and the essay doesn't make this connection. But

752
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 3: I noticed he has in some pictures where he's got

753
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 3: a leaner physique, he has very prominent cheek bones, and

754
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 3: in other pictures where he's older, he has just a

755
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 3: very very like cute, you know, cute prominent cheeks.

756
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I look at him and I'm like, okay, yeah,

757
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,879
Speaker 2: hands on baseball player, prominent cheek bones. But it's hard

758
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 2: for me to imagine the transition from this plus Santa

759
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 2: Claus equal Kumiman. But I believe it. I'll accept it.

760
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 3: Should we take a moment to say anything about the

761
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,720
Speaker 3: role of Santa in Japanese culture, Like, despite the mostly

762
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 3: non Christian context, a number of people in Japan do

763
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 3: observe Christmas in some way, not as a religious holiday,

764
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 3: but just as a kind of a fun cultural holiday,

765
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 3: and there is some role for Santa Claus in Japanese

766
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 3: culture or Santa San Yeah.

767
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 2: Yes, Santa has Uh has has proved to be an

768
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 2: export in some ways. I mean, Japanese Christmas traditions also

769
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 2: include Kentucky Fried Chicken, which is its own whole story.

770
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 2: But I haven't researched Japanese Santa culture a lot. I've

771
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 2: looked into Chinese embrace of sand in the past, where

772
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:29,720
Speaker 2: he ended up like basically entering the Chinese popular mindset

773
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 2: during the nineties and ended up playing a saxophone due

774
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 2: to associations with Bill Clinton playing a saxophone. Probably, uh.

775
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 2: These are things that often happen like without you know,

776
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,280
Speaker 2: they just happen, and you don't know how an idea

777
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: is going to move from one culture to the next,

778
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: what it's going to drag with it, and then when

779
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 2: it gets over there, you know where, what kind of

780
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 2: form it's going to take up take on, either temporarily

781
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,919
Speaker 2: or permanently. You know, as as you know, something comes

782
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 2: over from another culture and whatever's novel about it may

783
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 2: be accepted, you know, And and there's also how does

784
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 2: it fit into pre existing values and ideas you know,

785
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 2: where does it sort of like naturally fit and so

786
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 2: forth and so forth. So I imagine there's a fair

787
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 2: amount of that going on with Santa being brought in.

788
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: We've talked in the past two about how in like

789
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 2: in Chinese traditions, there are these ideas of Chinese and mortals.

790
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 2: You know that in some ways like remind me of

791
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 2: Santa Claus. You know, the idea that it's an old

792
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 2: man with a beard that lives at the North Pole

793
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 2: in some you know, translations of and understanding of the story,

794
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 2: and so you're like, well, this kind of sounds like

795
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 2: Santa Claus to me. So I don't know. All sorts

796
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 2: of things like this I think end up occurring when

797
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 2: when one cultural motif is is brought over into another.

798
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 3: I think you can also think about some cross cultural

799
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 3: similarities and characters like that, not necessarily as even having

800
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 3: influenced one another at aiting point, but there are just

801
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 3: some character types that are kind of easy for the

802
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 3: mind to get to. Yeah, and a lot of cultures

803
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 3: will come up with characters with some similar characteristics.

804
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 2: I think it gets to the appeal in general of

805
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 2: urokiara though, because these are all individuals that you can

806
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 2: look at one, and you don't need to know like

807
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 2: how their design came together. You don't need to know

808
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,399
Speaker 2: what they represent, if anything, you don't have to know

809
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 2: like what corporation or prefecture they're associated with, but you

810
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: just instantly get why they're appealing. There's something about them

811
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 2: that transcends all language and cultural understanding, and you're like, yes, yes,

812
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 2: come into my life. You know so many characters like

813
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 2: that in pop culture in general.

814
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 3: Ochi in this essay mentions another possible influence on the

815
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 3: design of Kumaman, which is that he is thought in

816
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 3: some ways to resemble a sort of local stereotype of

817
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 3: the qshu man, who is described as stocky, tough, and

818
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 3: subject to turbulent emotions. So I'm not sure I understand this,

819
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 3: this sort of intro Japanese stereotype perfectly, but I'm interpreting

820
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 3: it in the same way that we have regional stereotype

821
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 3: characters in America, like you know, the forget about It

822
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 3: New York mayn or the you know, the Barbecue Texas mayn.

823
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: That kind of thing, Okay, And so if you like

824
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 2: took this stereotype and then made it cute and then

825
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 2: used it to represent the region, which you know that

826
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 2: it sounds more appealing the more I think about it,

827
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 2: because you take that which on some level and I

828
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 2: don't know to what degree they were doing this on

829
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 2: any level with this particular Japanese scenario, but you could

830
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 2: imagine part of it being well, let's take this thing

831
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 2: that might be a little intimidating and we make it cute.

832
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 2: We you know, we pull the thangs from it, and

833
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: we turn it around and make it something that ultimatelyons

834
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 2: of attracting people.

835
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 3: Yes, but you know, there's another way that the cuteness

836
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 3: of these characters can be deceiving, because it seems to

837
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 3: me that certainly with Kumaman, and I think with many

838
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 3: of these other mascots that we'll get to in the

839
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 3: next episode. The more you dig, the more layers of

840
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 3: intended symbolic meaning and cultural reference seem to emerge. For example,

841
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 3: according to this essay, the red rosy circles on Kumaman's cheeks.

842
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 3: Ochi says that the red circles symbolize that Kumamoto is

843
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 3: also known as the land of Fire, and they are

844
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 3: also supposed to be a reference to the mark of

845
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 3: a particular feudal lord of Kumamoto during the Tokugawa Shogunate.

846
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: And then also they are reminiscent of the he Knu

847
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 3: Maru or the sun circle the rising Sun, which is

848
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 3: used on the Japanese flag, and the essay points out

849
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,760
Speaker 3: that these red circle cheeks appear on other Japanese characters,

850
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 3: such as Pokemon's Pikachu.

851
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, now that you mention it, Pikachu has

852
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 2: those notable red spots. And then you've mentioned another one here,

853
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 2: open Man, who I was not familiar with, but I

854
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 2: looked up pictures of this superhero is character, and he

855
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 2: has like a big rosy red nose and then two

856
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: big red rosy cheeks, so his face is highlighted by

857
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 2: three big rosy red circles.

858
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 3: So anyway, I mentioned earlier that Kumaman is a big business,

859
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 3: and this is true. Kumaman not only exists as a

860
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 3: mascot promoting Kumamoto and its products, but also as a

861
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 3: motif in a type of consumer item known as fun chiguzu,

862
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 3: which is a term derived in part from English meaning

863
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,720
Speaker 3: fancy goods, and in the essays words, these are quote small, cute,

864
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 3: decorative personal items often marketed to young women and An

865
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 3: example given is Hello Kiddy merchandise. So some of these characters,

866
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 3: especially Kumaman, have been popular not just in promotions, but

867
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 3: as imagery in themselves, sought after for their own value

868
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 3: in the form of like cute decorative knickknacks. Now, Rob,

869
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 3: you brought this up earlier, that your kiara are not

870
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 3: just visual image or likenesses, but characters and their creators

871
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 3: give them narratives, backgrounds, and personalities. You brought up the

872
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 3: I think the romance between two different mascots, so they

873
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 3: have like histories and hobbies and preferences. I came across

874
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 3: references to at least one mascot that was said to

875
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 3: be a fan of heavy metal music, and maybe we'll

876
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 3: get back to that in a subsequent part here. But

877
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 3: the author of the essay mentions several things about Kuma

878
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 3: Man's bio in particular, so they say his birthday is

879
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 3: March twelfth, and he is five years old. I don't

880
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 3: know if he ages or if he is perpetually five

881
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 3: years old. I mentioned his arched eyebrows, which I initially

882
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 3: interpreted as curious, but another way of rating them is surprised,

883
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 3: And in this way he connects to the theme of

884
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 3: Kumamoto Surprise. The creators do say that he is male,

885
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 3: though this is specified quote in the human not animal sense, Okay,

886
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 3: They say he is curious and loves playful mischief, and

887
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 3: so an example of the playful mischief is that sometimes

888
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 3: at public events, when he's in costume form, he will

889
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 3: show off strange behavior that seems to baffle his human handlers.

890
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 3: One example given is that, like, he will sit down

891
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 3: on the ground when it's time to dance.

892
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 2: Well, and that makes sense too when you get into

893
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 2: the fact that ultimately these mascots are going to be

894
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 2: portrayed by a person in a costume, and then it

895
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 2: becomes a performance hard then it becomes a basic like

896
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 2: you know, silent clowning routine, and therefore, like some of

897
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 2: the basics of entertaining, you know, costume work, are you

898
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:39,919
Speaker 2: going to be in play now?

899
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 3: One thing that I thought was interesting that this essay

900
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 3: gets into is that often urukiara do speak, but from

901
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 3: what Ochi says, at least in the context of Kumaman,

902
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 3: they don't speak in person in the embodied form, So

903
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 3: the person in the costume is never going to make

904
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 3: a statement out loud, but the character, or may have

905
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 3: their words appear in print or be spoken for by

906
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 3: an attendant spokesperson, And I thought that was kind of

907
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 3: interesting because it reminded me of other characters. Specifically, I

908
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 3: was thinking of silent protagonists in video games, and examples

909
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 3: of this would be characters like Mario or Link from

910
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 3: Legend of Zelda, or Gordon Freeman in the Half Life games,

911
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 3: the protagonist of the Portal games. These are characters that

912
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 3: we never hear speak, at least not in sentences. We

913
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 3: might hear little exclamations or noises or single words. You know,

914
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 3: Mario might say yahoo or little thing, but will not

915
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 3: make a full statement, and these characters are usually not

916
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 3: understood to actually be mute within the storylines of the

917
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 3: games in which they appear. The way I've always understood

918
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 3: it is that within the story they can speak, and

919
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,720
Speaker 3: the other their characters have heard them speak and sometimes

920
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 3: react to them as if they are speaking in the moment,

921
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 3: but we do not hear them speak out loud ourselves.

922
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 3: And this seems to have some kind of magical relationship

923
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 3: to the fact that when we're playing the game, we

924
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 3: are them. Some kind of magic would be broken if

925
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 3: we heard their voice, speaking full coherent sentences, and so

926
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 3: that seemed in some ways parallel to the idea of

927
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 3: that like with Kumaman, you're not going to hear the

928
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 3: person in the suit speaking as Kumaman, but Kumaman is

929
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 3: understand understood to be able to speak. It's just that,

930
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 3: like words will only appear in print or something.

931
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 2: And I think that is that is a key difference

932
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,320
Speaker 2: from some of the Western counterparts that you might compare

933
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 2: them to, like Grimace talks, Ronald McDonald talks. You know,

934
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,879
Speaker 2: the Starbucks Mermay doesn't talk, but the Starbucks Mermay doesn't

935
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 2: do anything.

936
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I wonder if a difference here is that

937
00:53:56,320 --> 00:54:01,720
Speaker 3: these mascots often represent locality or polities of some kind,

938
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 3: and so there are lots of people who are passively

939
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 3: being represented by them in some ways. You know, you

940
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 3: sort of like are Kumaman. If you are a Kumamoto resident,

941
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 3: he's sort of the avatar of your region. So I

942
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 3: wonder if there's a similar logic at work that kind

943
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 3: of prevents them from speaking in person, even if they

944
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 3: can be understood to have personalities and the power of speech,

945
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 3: just only being able to give quotes in print.

946
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 2: I think That's a great point because some of these

947
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 2: images you included in our notes of Kumaman in his

948
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 2: natural habitat, like he looks like I want to feel

949
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 2: if I go there, you know, And I think that's intended.

950
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 2: So there's that aspect to it for sure, Like he

951
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 2: represents that it would and it would destroy the magic

952
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 2: if he spoke. And I guess also you could add

953
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 2: maybe too that the various physical suit performances I have

954
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:59,399
Speaker 2: seen footage of of these various mascots. There's a kind

955
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 2: of shyness to them that is part of the cute factor.

956
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 2: You know. Sometimes they're peeking from behind doorways or you know,

957
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 2: around corners at you. They're being a little shy, and

958
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 2: that's part of their cuddliness, you know, like if they

959
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 2: were chasing you down, it would not be the same vibe.

960
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, there's a bunch of stuff about Kumaman that

961
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 3: I would like to get into, but I might save

962
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 3: some of it for part two, especially if we start

963
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 3: talking about connections between these characters and Yokai. But one

964
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 3: last thing I wanted to get to while talking about

965
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 3: Kumaman right now is one of my favorite parts of

966
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 3: this essay. It is the insistence that despite appearances, Kumaman

967
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 3: is not a bear. What okay, he looks like a

968
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,320
Speaker 3: bear to me, So what is he? Is he some

969
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 3: kind some other kind of animal that just looks like

970
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 3: a bear. And here I just have to simply read

971
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 3: from Ochi's essay. The answer makes reference to the concept

972
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 3: of kigarumi, which means costumed character. So a kigarumi is

973
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,240
Speaker 3: a person in a costume, Ochi writes.

974
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 2: Quote.

975
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 3: Another misconception about Kumaman is that he is a bear,

976
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 3: the animal he most resembles. When I contacted Kumamoto Prefecture

977
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:13,240
Speaker 3: to use his image in my chapter, I was told

978
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 3: that any such statements must be removed. Most Japanese people,

979
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 3: along with foreign and domestic media, say Kumaman is a

980
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 3: bear and are surprised to learn otherwise. Perhaps this reminds

981
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 3: readers of the wildly popular news story of August twenty fourteen,

982
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 3: in which Sanrio insisted that Hello Kitty.

983
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,800
Speaker 2: Is not a cat yep. I remember that the paragraph.

984
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 3: Goes on, not only is Kumaman not a bear, he

985
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 3: is not a human in a fuzzy suit, as I

986
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 3: was told by the Kumamoto brand promotion office.

987
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 2: Quote.

988
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 3: The kumaman you see in the real world is not

989
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:53,400
Speaker 3: a kigarumi. The thing you see is his flesh and blood. Wow,

990
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:58,399
Speaker 3: So I this really got the gears going. So they're

991
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 3: not denying that Ku the Kuma Man costume looks like

992
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 3: a bear. They are denying that it is a costume,

993
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 3: but it is also not a real bear.

994
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 2: Hmm. Yeah. And this I guess they're kind of like

995
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 2: leaning into this kind of like on reality. This this

996
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 2: this third case. You know, it's like it's it's almost

997
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 2: like it's a supernatural being, like you would say that

998
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 2: like getting into the world of Yokai, which we'll get

999
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 2: into more in the next episode. It's like saying, well,

1000
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 2: a kappa is not a turtle and it's not a man.

1001
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 2: It is and it would be wrong to say it's

1002
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 2: a hybrid of the two either it is its own thing. Yeah,

1003
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 2: and and yeah, oh boy, this is Yeah, it gets

1004
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 2: into I wonder if part of this, too, is like

1005
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 2: a Western impulse to need to strictly classify everything, like

1006
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 2: we need to know, you know, what species this particular

1007
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 2: mythological creature is without stopping to remind yourselves that it

1008
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 2: exists in myth and and therefore it has special classification.

1009
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 3: Well, I was thinking about it in another way, which

1010
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 3: is that if you ask the question is Kumaman a bear?

1011
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 3: You could mean sort of two different things by that question.

1012
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 3: One is is a bear what it is supposed to resemble?

1013
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 3: And the other is a sort of literal or reductive question,

1014
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 3: like are you currently playing along with the game? So

1015
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 3: we have you know, normally, if a person in a

1016
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 3: costume or a cartoon representation of an animal, if I'm

1017
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 3: thinking about that, there are two possible ways to think

1018
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 3: about it. Either I'm playing along, which involves accepting the

1019
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 3: thing as the thing it resembles or represents, So a

1020
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 3: cartoon cat is a cat if I'm playing along, Or

1021
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 3: there's being reductive, which would be taking a literal objective

1022
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 3: perspective and saying no, it's pixels on a screen that

1023
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 3: are intended to look like a cat, or in the

1024
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 3: case of a person in a suit, it is a

1025
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 3: human being inside a suit that is supposed to look

1026
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 3: like a bear. And this is neither one. It's like

1027
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 3: they are still asking you to play along. They're saying no, no, no,

1028
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 3: We're not being literal and reductive that it's a human

1029
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,479
Speaker 3: inside a suit. What it actually objectively is we're still

1030
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 3: playing the game, but we're not asking you to see

1031
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 3: the character as the thing. It looks like it is

1032
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 3: only what it is on the outside, no questions about

1033
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 3: what's underneath.

1034
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 2: Okay, it's kind of it's kind of like the concept

1035
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 2: of KFA and pro wrestling. Then, I guess it's like

1036
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 2: if you were to ask about, say, I don't know

1037
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 2: the Undertaker, and you were to say, well, is the

1038
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 2: Undertaker a zombie? No, he's not a zombie. Is the

1039
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 2: Undertaker like a guy from Texas pretending to be a zombie? No,

1040
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 2: he's not that either, He's this other thing. You've got

1041
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 2: to like approach it. You got to play the game,

1042
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 2: like you say, he is what he is. Yeah, he

1043
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 2: is as presented.

1044
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 3: So I thought that was like worthy of a symbiotics

1045
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 3: lecture or something interesting. I'm I keep thinking on that.

1046
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 3: Oh at won very last I want to get to

1047
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 3: before we wrap up for today is there is a

1048
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 3: section of this essay where people are just trying to

1049
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 3: make sense of why Kumaman is being used in the

1050
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 3: for the glory of Satan memes. Now, I don't really know.

1051
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 3: I wasn't familiar with these memes back in the day.

1052
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 3: I didn't make them, obviously, but I if I had

1053
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 3: to guess, I would just think it's the irony. It's

1054
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 3: just like he's cute, and thus it's funny to make

1055
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 3: a cute thing say something that is, you know, menacing

1056
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 3: or sinister.

1057
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, the juxposition is just like the Almo you hell

1058
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 2: fire thing?

1059
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. One thing mentioned here is a Japanese news

1060
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 3: report that's trying to make sense of the meme and

1061
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 3: says and they speculate that it may have dimmed from

1062
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 3: the similarity between the word kumaman and the word in

1063
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 3: English demon or the names of specific demons in Christianity

1064
01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 3: Mammon or Ammon, and that I don't know. That just

1065
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 3: seemed like I don't think that's what it is. But

1066
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 3: it's funny because that's the same kind of logic we

1067
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 3: sometimes employed, and we're like trying to figure out why

1068
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 3: something why a cultural connection is made. It's like maybe

1069
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 3: it has to do with these sound alike words, but like,

1070
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 3: I really don't think that's it.

1071
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, the memon thing came to my mind when we

1072
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 2: were talking about the hell fire thing earlier. But then

1073
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 2: I like it's like it can't be it on a

1074
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 2: mainstream level, like that's that's more of a like a

1075
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 2: deeper demonology cut that surely wasn't part of the decision

1076
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 2: making process, and it is me.

1077
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 3: But then apparently this same news report speculated in the

1078
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 3: other half that the answer is what is in my opinion,

1079
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 3: almost certainly correct. It's just the juxtaposition of like the

1080
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 3: cuteness and the evilness of Satan.

1081
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it's the same reason that the stay

1082
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 2: Puff marshmallow Man runs a muck. It's the reason that

1083
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 2: we have so many different stories horror tales that involve

1084
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 2: like a murderous Santa or monstrous Santa. It's the juxtaposition.

1085
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 2: It's the the twisting, the flipping of the concept.

1086
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 3: Okay, do we need to break part one there?

1087
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 2: I think so. I think that's a good place to

1088
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 2: break it off. But we will be back in our

1089
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 2: next core episode of Stuff to Blow your mind with

1090
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 2: additional explorations of the world of euro Kiara, some more

1091
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 2: examples of note that we thought were pretty interesting, and

1092
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 2: we'll also get into some of these connections that you

1093
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 2: know that get into you know, religion and folklore. So

1094
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 2: make sure you tune in for that, and in the meantime,

1095
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 2: certainly right in and share your favorites with us. We'd

1096
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 2: love to discuss that in future episodes of the Lister

1097
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 2: Mail episodes that we run on Mondays. Also, if you

1098
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 2: reside in Japan, have visited Japan, our Japanese and so forth,

1099
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 2: and have additional thoughts on all of this, yes, right in,

1100
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 2: we'd love to hear from you on all of that

1101
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 2: as well. Please reminded the Stuff to Blow Your Mind

1102
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 2: is primarily a science and culture podcast, with core episodes

1103
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 2: on Tuesdays and Thursdays Monday's Lister Mail Wednesdays we have

1104
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 2: short form episodes, and on Fridays we set aside most

1105
01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 2: serious concerns to just talk about a weird film on

1106
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 2: Weird House Cinema.

1107
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

1108
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1109
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1110
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1111
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1112
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

1113
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1114
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app

1115
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.