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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast am on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: What started this? Because it really went off the rails

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Speaker 2: at some point where anybody who has grown anything in

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Speaker 2: their garden, you know, seemed like they might they might

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Speaker 2: be on trial for being a witch. How did this

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Speaker 2: get so out of control? How did it start?

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Speaker 3: There are a lot of theories about that, and you know,

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Speaker 3: of course, people, you know, we're talking about a long

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Speaker 3: time ago where the lines between medicine and cooking and

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Speaker 3: witchcraft are kind of blurry, like science is magical, and

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Speaker 3: in some ways we're kind of returning to some of

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Speaker 3: that practice now. I just heard about four commercials for

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Speaker 3: herbal remedies. There are moments where that knowledge has to

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Speaker 3: go underground, and this is one of those moments. There

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Speaker 3: are theories that somebody ate bad grain and it made

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Speaker 3: them hallucinate. There is a really strong argument that these

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Speaker 3: were very repressive time and teenage girls got a little

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Speaker 3: taste of power and it went off the rails. There's also,

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Speaker 3: you know, two wars that happened prior to the Revolutionary

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Speaker 3: War in the in New England, and they're extremely violent

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Speaker 3: and extremely brutal, and most of the young accusers during

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Speaker 3: the Salem witch trials are what we call refugees from

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Speaker 3: that war. They were up in main and witness terrible

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Speaker 3: stuff and lost a lot of family. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: everybody's struggling. They're also petrified of the forest. They believe

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Speaker 3: the forest is the realm of the devil, like.

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Speaker 2: The people that live there, not the people practicing witchcraft.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, forests are always you know, even maybe that's

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Speaker 2: a carryover from Europe too, but everybody thinks is forest

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Speaker 2: is that the woods are scary. I mean they're scary.

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Speaker 3: There's booky and you know, you see things out of

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Speaker 3: the corner of your eye and this again and this

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Speaker 3: is a pretty dangerous landscape. And it's also you know,

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Speaker 3: I was taught with your producer who's from West Virginia

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Speaker 3: and I'm from Pennsylvania. The woods feel really haunted and

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Speaker 3: I'm sure that's you know, something deep there. But at

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Speaker 3: that time, once the accusation started flying, there were a

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Speaker 3: couple of big wigs in the New England world who

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Speaker 3: who wrote books about how to seek out witches, and

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Speaker 3: they capitalized on this moment. So there was a lot

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Speaker 3: of different forces fanning the flames. And three of my

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Speaker 3: ancestors were convicted. One of them escaped before he could

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Speaker 3: be questioned in a trial. In one of George Junior escaped. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he just took off and then and his his wife

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Speaker 3: was incarcerated for many months. These these people were chained

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Speaker 3: in cold prisons on the floor, like starving, waiting to

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Speaker 3: you know, have their execution after they were convicted. His

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Speaker 3: father was executed. His father was like around eighty seven

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Speaker 3: years old, which back then, George senior, George Jacobs Senior

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Speaker 3: was eighty seven years old and was executed for witchcraft.

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Speaker 3: Was he refused to confess because he did not want

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Speaker 3: to implicate other people. And his granddaughter also was convicted,

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Speaker 3: but right before she was to be executed, the governor

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Speaker 3: of Massachusetts wife was accused of witchcraft and he decided

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Speaker 3: it was time to end that court.

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Speaker 2: How many in that year, how many people died because

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Speaker 2: of your being accused of witchcraft?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a it's kind of a wild number. We're

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Speaker 3: talking about more than two hundred people incarcerated, gosh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and twenty five murdered. And of the two hundred, I

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Speaker 3: mean you're talking about women who have children, you know,

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Speaker 3: people who are dependent on them. So the story of

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Speaker 3: my like seventh grand great grandmother's arrest. You know, she's

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Speaker 3: taken to the prison, her baby's ripped out of her arms,

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Speaker 3: their toddlers following her down the street crying. So you

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Speaker 3: know the cost of this in this community. There's only

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Speaker 3: there's only five to six hundred people in the community,

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Speaker 3: and two hundred of them end up in incarcerated. So

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Speaker 3: it's a pretty significant wild time. I think I wrote

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Speaker 3: about it, like, imagine if an in real life twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty era Twitter mob or bonnets and could execute people

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Speaker 3: like that's what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I don't know that we're that far away

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Speaker 2: from from something outrageous like that, where were social media

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Speaker 2: just turns the mob on you. I've seen it happen

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Speaker 2: a few times.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually have my students study this now because

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Speaker 3: I want them to look at, you know, mob mentality

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Speaker 3: and you know when groups of people get really paranoid.

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Speaker 3: But also the first people to be executed in the

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Speaker 3: witch trials are all outsiders. There's a woman who's mentally ill,

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Speaker 3: there's a Quaker, there's a woman who's kind of like

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Speaker 3: she's like the town drunk, you know, So there's this

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Speaker 3: like pattern of whoever's not very popular, and then it

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Speaker 3: starts to look like people getting revenge on each other. So,

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Speaker 3: for example, George Junior, George Jacobs Junior is one of

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Speaker 3: my ancestors. He was a known creep. The reason that

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Speaker 3: he and his dad are thought to have been accused

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Speaker 3: is they were hanging out fixing their wagon and making

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Speaker 3: jokes about the girls who were accusing everyone, and they

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Speaker 3: call them the witch b words.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I can say.

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Speaker 3: That, And so that joke was overheard and people didn't

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Speaker 3: like it. But prior to that, George Junior had herded

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Speaker 3: a bunch of his neighbor's horses into the water and

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Speaker 3: killed them. So he had something very problems too.

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Speaker 4: But I know you're gonna want some them after hearing this.

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Speaker 4: This is an amazing story.

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Speaker 1: We've got Stephen and Malachi Gregory in Nelson, New Zealand.

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Speaker 4: Now I understand that Malachi, who is eight almost nine

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Speaker 4: years old now, was suffering with not just one or

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Speaker 4: two warts, but I mean a significant outbreak of warts

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Speaker 4: all over his body, so significant it impacted his ability

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Speaker 4: to really function.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, he was having trouble even holding a pencil

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Speaker 5: to right tis book.

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Speaker 1: Actually that got me thinking about it. I'm not surprised.

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Speaker 1: It is an amazing immuno modulator, and so I can

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Speaker 1: see that it would work.

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Speaker 4: And so at what point did you see that there

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Speaker 4: was actually improvement it's really going to work.

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Speaker 5: Well, look, we really started to notice it around twelve weeks.

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Speaker 5: You can see these things actually getting smaller and smaller

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Speaker 5: and then going down to with just little rid monks.

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Speaker 5: The whole things are gone and we're talking about what's

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Speaker 5: you know one the size for Warner. I thought, no way,

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Speaker 5: that's gonna wow. That's just been miraculous to see him

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Speaker 5: get into a pair of shoes.

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Speaker 4: Yes, how wonderful.

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Speaker 5: It's great to see.

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy and yeah.

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Speaker 4: Confident, absolutely wonderful.

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Speaker 1: For instead of seen it that is blown away.

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Speaker 4: TI, this is awesome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is awesome.

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Speaker 6: Another amazing story. Why we're talking about Carnivora. Call them

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Speaker 6: to awaken your immune system and protect yourself now called

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Speaker 6: one eight sixty six eight three six eighty seven thirty five.

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Speaker 6: That's one eight six six eight three six eighty seven

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Speaker 6: thirty five, or visit Carnivora dot com c A R

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Speaker 6: n iv O R a Carnivora dot com.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that the mental the mental problems like

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Speaker 2: what you said with drinking and in some of that

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Speaker 2: real outrageous am with sociopath stuff, do you think that's

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Speaker 2: from the war from from trauma?

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Speaker 3: I am, I'm looking. I'm trying to trace back those threads,

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Speaker 3: and you know, I think sometimes this stuff is also inherited,

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Speaker 3: Like I can see a thread through you know, my

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Speaker 3: family of a certain trait that comes up that's not

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Speaker 3: you know, that's not very empathetic, and we see it

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Speaker 3: like every few generations. That's that's why I started doing

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Speaker 3: as part of why started investigating this history.

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Speaker 2: But people go into that a little deeper. What do

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Speaker 2: you mean by that? Help me understand that a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So in about twenty twenty, late twenty nineteen, my

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Speaker 3: mother became really sick with a rare disease and passed

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Speaker 3: away very quickly. The disease is related to mad cow

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Speaker 3: disease that's called chris feldteic of disorder, and it's so

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Speaker 3: rare and so frightening that you know, her remains were

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Speaker 3: taken to a hospital in Ohio, case Western, and they

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Speaker 3: had to specially do a test to make sure she

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Speaker 3: hadn't been infected from the food supply. And this only

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Speaker 3: happens to one in a million people in America. And

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Speaker 3: there are three chances, three ways you can get it.

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Speaker 3: One is through the food supply, one is through genetics,

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Speaker 3: which would mean that I would have it and my

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Speaker 3: children would also have it. And one is called sporadic,

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Speaker 3: like it just shows up. And during the time I

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Speaker 3: was waiting for the autopsy to come back, I didn't

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Speaker 3: realize what I was doing, but I like the reason

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Speaker 3: was probably because I was looking for a pattern of

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Speaker 3: death rates. But I started going back through records, I

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Speaker 3: started doing genealogy, and I noticed several patterns, and this

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Speaker 3: was what sort of brought me all the way back

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Speaker 3: to the Salem witch trials. But I noticed that like

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Speaker 3: every couple of generations, there's somebody who's you know, uh not,

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Speaker 3: doesn't seem to follow the rules of society, seems to like,

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Speaker 3: you know, be up to a little bit of no good.

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Speaker 3: And so I became, I think that's really fascinating and curious.

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Speaker 3: And I became I'm very interested in how those hidden

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Speaker 3: sea histories and families also we have people who are

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Speaker 3: very vulnerable. And then people who are not vulnerable at all,

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Speaker 3: and how they end up together and what that creates

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Speaker 3: throughout the ages. So you have George Senior, who's very

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Speaker 3: you know, refuses to confess. If he confessed, he'd save

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Speaker 3: his own life because he thought it was wrong. And

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Speaker 3: he said in the witch trials, you might as well

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Speaker 3: accuse me of being a buzzard as accused me of

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Speaker 3: being a Wizard's I've done no wrong. Meanwhile, his son

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Speaker 3: just took off left. Everybody ends up inheriting all the

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Speaker 3: the he all the money because his son applies for

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Speaker 3: you know, reparations a couple decades later, when the State

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Speaker 3: of Massachusetts does reparations for witch trial.

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Speaker 2: Those were persecuted. Yeah, he made out big. Well, I'm

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Speaker 2: also thinking too, and I don't mean any offense by this,

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Speaker 2: but what kind of creep do you have to be

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Speaker 2: in the sixteen hundreds for that to still be attached

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Speaker 2: to any file what's your name on it? In the

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Speaker 2: two thousands? I mean, right, was really really a troublemaker.

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Speaker 3: He was a real trouble maker. And so part of

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Speaker 3: that too is that these guys they weren't Puritans, they

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Speaker 3: were you know, they were Scottish or you know, coming

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Speaker 3: from more refugee backgrounds. They were you know, they weren't

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Speaker 3: really going to church. They were they probably were, you know, drinking,

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Speaker 3: and they were using poor language and making jokes about

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Speaker 3: the very important process of persecuting witches. So you know,

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Speaker 3: once I heard, yeah, once I heard they were making once,

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Speaker 3: I was like, wait, I have ancestors. My dad was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think your mom's ancestors were like Puritans or something.

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Speaker 3: I was like, what, that doesn't sound right. And then

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Speaker 3: I read the story about than making jokes and getting

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Speaker 3: in trouble, and I was like, oh, that sounds like

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Speaker 3: that sounds like the Baxter's. Okay, that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Does this mean that? Are you telling me? It wasn't

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Speaker 2: until your mom passed away and I'm sorry for your

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Speaker 2: loss that you found that you were related to people

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Speaker 2: that were killed in the Salem witch trials.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't until my mom passed away that I found

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Speaker 3: that out. And wow, But I what I also found out,

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Speaker 3: and this is kind of like the bright side, was

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Speaker 3: that you know they were they were when they immigrated

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Speaker 3: to the US and the sixteen hundreds. They were from

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Speaker 3: a family who where the men were barbers and the

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Speaker 3: women were midwives like they were healers. And as a child,

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Speaker 3: my best memories, you know, are learning herbal medicine in

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Speaker 3: the garden with my mom. And so, you know, we

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Speaker 3: see periods throughout history when there are these panics and

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Speaker 3: people who live outside the mainstream and have knowledge that

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Speaker 3: might seem threatening or confusing. You know that they end

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Speaker 3: up being targeted because they frighten people or you know,

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Speaker 3: someone's different and people come after them. So you know,

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Speaker 3: there was this knowledge. I My last book before the

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Speaker 3: one about ancient spells was about plant magic, and I

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Speaker 3: was really writing about what I learned as a child,

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Speaker 3: and it was really interesting. My mother knew she always

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Speaker 3: planted marigolds around the tomatoes, and I'd say, why do

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Speaker 3: we have to put miracles around the tomatoes always? She say, oh,

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Speaker 3: because they protect them, and so you know, later on

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Speaker 3: I thought, oh, it must be like the smell is

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Speaker 3: really heavy. They keep insects away. And then I read

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Speaker 3: this book about nematos, which are these organisms that are

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Speaker 3: not good for the roots of tomatoes, and how marigolds

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Speaker 3: protect the roots of tomatoes from micro organisms.

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Speaker 2: Oh interesting, and I was like.

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Speaker 3: How did you know that? And she's like, oh, your

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Speaker 3: grandma told me, Well, my mom didn't study botany or biology,

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Speaker 3: and I don't know that my grandma, I think she

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Speaker 3: finished high school. But you know, these were not people

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Speaker 3: who had deep microbiological knowledge.

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Speaker 2: That's science knowledge, right, So you.

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Speaker 3: Know there's there's there's something to this folk knowledge.

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