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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Imagine two beautiful children that

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Speaker 1: you give birth to, that you raise, that you nurture,

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Speaker 1: that you sacrifice so much for a mom who loves

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Speaker 1: nothing more than her boy and girl. To the shock

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Speaker 1: of cops that arrive at her mansion in Florida to

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Speaker 1: find Mommy in the backyard having a glass of wine

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Speaker 1: in her bathrobe, while her daughter is upstairs shot in

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Speaker 1: the mouth, dead, her son out for an afternoon of athletics,

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Speaker 1: also dead in the carport at the hands of Mommy.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and Serious xem

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Speaker 1: one eleven. I'm talking none other than Julie Sheneker, the

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Speaker 1: highly educated mom of two who works her way up

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Speaker 1: the ranks through the military to a very high high

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Speaker 1: ranking position. Convicted in the murders of her two teen children.

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Speaker 1: In the last days, she hopes to convince a judge

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Speaker 1: she deserves a new trial with me here in the studio,

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Speaker 1: Jackie Howard, Jackie, what can you tell me? In her

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Speaker 1: latest bid for a new trial, Julie Sheneker alleged that

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Speaker 1: her lawyers were ineffective, that they didn't call certain witnesses,

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Speaker 1: and they didn't pursue any avenue that would have helped

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Speaker 1: her case. She also claims she was pressured not to testify.

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Speaker 1: Sheneker also says that media coverage surrounding her case impacted

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Speaker 1: the jury. Julie Shineker, in her attempt to get a

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Speaker 1: new trial and start all over from a scratch, demands

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Speaker 1: the judge reverse her case, claiming her former lawyers made

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Speaker 1: so many mistakes she deserves a do over. Yes, a

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Speaker 1: do over, but what were the facts at trial? Listen?

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Speaker 2: Police say about seven o'clock Thursday night, Shinecker armed herself

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Speaker 2: with a thirty eight caliber pistol she had just purchased

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Speaker 2: over the weekend. They say she shot her son twice

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Speaker 2: in the head in the family's garage, then went upstairs

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Speaker 2: and shot her daughter in the back of the head

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Speaker 2: while she was doing her homework. She did tell us

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Speaker 2: that they talked back, that they were mouthy, and that

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Speaker 2: she was tired of it.

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Speaker 1: Before we go any further, I want you to hear

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Speaker 1: Julie Shinecker speaking in her own words, Jackie. Let's play

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Speaker 1: the cut in its entirety Cut fourteen. Listen to Julie

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Speaker 1: Shinecker speaking.

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Speaker 3: That's a good boy.

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Speaker 4: How bad he was him?

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Speaker 1: I hate better than.

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Speaker 4: You said, but it's better. Yeah, instead of how are

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Speaker 4: you going to do that? Soun fun? How would you

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Speaker 4: them sit there? Though? Oh so while they're in the house.

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Speaker 1: So her original plan was to murder both of her

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Speaker 1: children by carbon monoxide, but her problem was when she

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Speaker 1: would bring them home from school, they jump out of

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Speaker 1: the car and go in, so she couldn't figure out, Wow,

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Speaker 1: how can I kill them with carbon monoxide? I'll just

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Speaker 1: shoot them instead. We're talking about a killer mom, Julie.

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Speaker 1: She is no idiot. She was with the military as

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Speaker 1: a linguist and advanced way up high in the military ranks.

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Speaker 1: Here married to a military guy who also had climbed

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Speaker 1: the ranks, and he was away from home a lot,

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Speaker 1: and reports are she resented that deeply that she had

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Speaker 1: given up so much to raise these two children and

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Speaker 1: perceived that he had not. Well, now they're both dead,

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Speaker 1: and when you hear the way they were shot dead,

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Speaker 1: it's a story you'll never forget. With me an all

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Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of it all. First of all,

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Speaker 1: Judge trial lawyer anchor Court TV Ashley Wilcott had Ashley

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Speaker 1: Wilcott dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall, Psychoanalyst to the Stars,

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Speaker 1: joining us from La. She's also the star of a

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Speaker 1: new Netflix series, Blinging Empire, and you can find her

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Speaker 1: a doctor Bethany Marshalled, renowned death investigator, Joe Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: Professor of Forensic Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath

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Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon. First to a special guest joining us,

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Speaker 1: Serena Fison. Serena Fison is a four time Emmy Award

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Speaker 1: winning TV anchor and reporter, and one of those Emmys

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Speaker 1: was for getting the interview with Julie Shineker murder Mom,

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Speaker 1: and Serena tells me that interview changed her life. You

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Speaker 1: can find her at Serenafazon dot Media and she's got

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Speaker 1: a podcast on the record with Serena Fison. Wow do

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Speaker 1: you ever sleep? Woman? Let's just start now with Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, let's just start with what happened here.

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Speaker 1: I just have one question. I'm very curious about Serena Facan.

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Speaker 1: When you spent all that time with killer Mom Julie Shineker,

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Speaker 1: what was her demeanor because she apparently has no regrets

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Speaker 1: over what she did.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know when I first met her Nancy in

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Speaker 5: that prison. She seemed to be she seemed to have regrets.

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Speaker 5: It was when the cameras were turned off that she

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Speaker 5: changed her demeanor. But as you started the show talking

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Speaker 5: about how we would do anything, so many people would

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Speaker 5: do anything to have children, I was obsessed with the case,

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Speaker 5: for lack of a better term, for many, many reasons.

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Speaker 5: But one of those reasons is because I had my

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Speaker 5: daughter's three at the time, and I really wanted another child.

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Speaker 5: So I just couldn't imagine how someone could kill their

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Speaker 5: two children, or how anybody could do anything like that.

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Speaker 5: So I wrote to her in prison every month for

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Speaker 5: four years, just wanting, you know, to hear what she

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Speaker 5: had to say the prosecutors. Initially she pled not guilty,

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Speaker 5: you know, and then tried to go by reason of insanity.

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Speaker 5: It was very, very it was I will never forget

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Speaker 5: those hours that I spent with her.

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Speaker 1: What was her demeanor? Was she lucid?

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Speaker 6: She she was lucid?

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Speaker 7: She was she was lucid, She seemed to be she

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Speaker 7: would her eyes were all over the place, though, you know,

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Speaker 7: seemed not to really connect answering these questions.

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Speaker 1: Well, wait a minute, Wait a minute, hold on right there, uh,

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Speaker 1: Serena Vashon joining me, Emmy Award winning anchor and reporter.

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Speaker 1: I've seen plenty of defendants on the stand. I didn't

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Speaker 1: put them up. They went up on their own, and

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Speaker 1: they looked everywhere but and me asking them questions too,

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Speaker 1: which of course I loved because the jury was watching

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Speaker 1: it at the same time. I mean, when you don't

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Speaker 1: want to answer question, you look down, up around. It's

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Speaker 1: hard for me to look somebody in the eye and

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Speaker 1: outright lie. And that's a real tell. That's a nonverbal

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Speaker 1: communication right there, when the person looks away when you

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Speaker 1: ask them a question. Boy, when I asked the twins

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Speaker 1: the question, if they look away, I'm on it right then.

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Speaker 1: But sadly they know my game, so they know how

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Speaker 1: to they know how to treat me. Guys, we are

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Speaker 1: talking about this woman. I murder mom, There's no doubt

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Speaker 1: about it. She shot both of her children. And these children,

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Speaker 1: oh my stars, let me look up all their accomplishments.

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Speaker 1: For Pete's sake, let's see the teen girl, Keleik Shine

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Speaker 1: Kerr was an honor student. She had record time at

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Speaker 1: high school track. She was outstanding as far as grades go.

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Speaker 1: Same thing. A highly popular sophomore, she never missed school.

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Speaker 1: The only day that she missed school was the day

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Speaker 1: her mother's showed her dad her little brother Bo was

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Speaker 1: a goalie playing middle school soccer. That's not easy. I

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Speaker 1: don't get it, but you know what, let's hear it

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Speaker 1: from the horse's mouth. Take a listen. This is kill

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Speaker 1: her mom, Julie Shinneker.

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Speaker 4: What made you decide to do it this way? First?

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Speaker 8: Bow?

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Speaker 9: But I mean did were you bringing him back from

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Speaker 9: soccer practice and he kissed you off?

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Speaker 4: As that would happened? It snapped it right, I do.

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Speaker 9: Something if he turned around and came back.

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Speaker 10: You know when?

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Speaker 5: Did you?

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Speaker 3: When?

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Speaker 4: Exactly did you shoot Bow? Were you in the garage already?

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Speaker 8: Yes?

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Speaker 11: Se right?

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Speaker 4: But were you in your garage or were you driving.

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Speaker 1: Him?

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Speaker 4: So then you shot him? Where'd you shoot him? First?

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Speaker 4: You remember which signed love side?

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Speaker 11: And then why? And then.

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Speaker 4: I didn't do anything?

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome back everybody for those

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Speaker 1: of you just joining us. Convicted killer, high ranking in

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Speaker 1: the military, highly educated mom Julie Shineker back in a

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Speaker 1: temple courtroom trying to convince a judge. Her trial lawyers

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Speaker 1: made so many mistakes at trial. She deserves a new one,

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Speaker 1: a do over. Did it ever occur to her? The

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Speaker 1: reason the jury convicted her is not because of her lawyers,

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Speaker 1: but because of her detailed notes about murdering her children,

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Speaker 1: buying a gun ahead of time, lying left and right

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Speaker 1: to cover her tracks. All I believe out of revenge,

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Speaker 1: because her husband continued in the military, would fly all

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Speaker 1: around the world while she gave up her career to

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Speaker 1: raise children. Listen, woman, just go back to work. Why this?

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Speaker 4: And then what happened after that? Sitting there? Okay?

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Speaker 12: And then you went upstairs and that's when you confronted

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Speaker 12: Jaylie's she's head.

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Speaker 4: She didn't know you were there. Head.

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Speaker 1: I shot her in the back of the head, in

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Speaker 1: the mouth. Listen to the us.

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Speaker 4: When you shot her in the head?

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Speaker 9: Did she fall forward or anything? She feels fell sideways?

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Speaker 9: And then how did you shoot her in the mouth?

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Speaker 9: Where was she laying?

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Speaker 4: She was she was still in that chair, the chair

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Speaker 4: I had read. Did you take it right inside her mouth?

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Speaker 11: No?

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Speaker 4: I didn't do the inside, and you just from the outside.

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Speaker 1: Shot ye jack. I want to hear the rest of

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Speaker 1: what she said about her daughter kill it's place she

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Speaker 1: said when.

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Speaker 11: When I get out of here, I'm never going to

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Speaker 11: come back and see you.

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Speaker 4: I came up behind her. What was she doing for?

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Speaker 4: She was at homework on the computer.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, he came up behind her with what was okay?

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Speaker 4: And what happened? I shout about the head because she

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Speaker 4: was running her mouth at you. Yeah, and then I

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Speaker 4: shot her. I think, why did you want to shoot

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Speaker 4: her in the mouth?

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Speaker 1: Because someone's energy, you know, Doctor Bethony Marshall. I'm having

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Speaker 1: the same reaction right now as I would have so

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Speaker 1: often in court when I would have to present evidence

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Speaker 1: that was just unspeakable, and it leaves me almost numb, uh,

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Speaker 1: with waves of nausea listening to her talking about shooting

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Speaker 1: her girl in the mouth. And I remember moments like

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Speaker 1: that like that in court when then I'd have to

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Speaker 1: continue questioning and I'd look out with the jury and

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Speaker 1: they were would be just reeally, just numb with what

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Speaker 1: they had just heard and shittaker. But our job is

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Speaker 1: to analyze the facts and evidence and try to make

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Speaker 1: sense of it. Did you hear her say she shot

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Speaker 1: her daughter in the lath she was already dead, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because she first shot her in the back of the head.

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Speaker 1: But then she went up and shot Klex again in

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Speaker 1: the mouth.

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Speaker 3: I heard it, Nancy, Nancy, I remember covering this case

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Speaker 3: with you. Do you remember?

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Speaker 1: I remember? I messed today.

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Speaker 3: The images were so profound.

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Speaker 6: Her husband was away on tour.

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Speaker 3: She was so angry at her husband for not being

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Speaker 3: home to take care of the kids. She sounded the

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Speaker 3: way she was sitting on the back porch covered in blood,

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Speaker 3: and during the interviews, she sounded like she was trying

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Speaker 3: to act crazy or drugged. But she's not crazy at all,

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Speaker 3: She's quite saying Nancy. Her profile reminds me of a

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Speaker 3: particular type of patient who comes into my office, who

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Speaker 3: is very shifty, eyes all over the place, like our

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Speaker 3: Emmy Award winning producer was talking about, who is only

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Speaker 3: attached to one person on the face of the planet,

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Speaker 3: and that is themselves. They present in a peculiar kind

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Speaker 3: of way, as if the only thing that excites or

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Speaker 3: interests them is their own internal world, their own imagination,

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Speaker 3: their own thoughts about things. It's as if they're solipsistic,

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Speaker 3: meaning that the outside world is completely cut off and

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Speaker 3: their own internal imagination and fantasies are enlivened. It's like

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Speaker 3: they're it's like the It's like Horton, here's who if

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Speaker 3: you have the Doctor Seuss book. But the Who is

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Speaker 3: their own internal world. They go further and further inside

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Speaker 3: of their own thoughts and.

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Speaker 1: All that about Horton hears who in his own private world,

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Speaker 1: her own private world. But what matters to me, maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm a little bit more of a pragmatist, is what

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Speaker 1: she is saying at the time of the act. Clearly

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Speaker 1: the answer to that is no. I interviewed no the

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Speaker 1: guy who sold her the gun. Let's pull that up, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: the guy who sold her the gun, and he told

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Speaker 1: me that she was in no way unsteady, that she

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Speaker 1: was completely lucid. That she was saying. And while I've

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Speaker 1: got you, Serena Fizhan, isn't it true that she bought

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Speaker 1: the gun just shortly before the two murders?

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Speaker 5: Yes, and Nancy she told me when I asked her

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Speaker 5: that question in prison, she I asked her if she

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Speaker 5: had any regrets for killing her children, and she said no.

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Speaker 5: She says that she was trying to save them. Those

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Speaker 5: were her words, she said to me. I just told

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Speaker 5: up some of my interviews. Yeah, and the full interviews

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Speaker 5: you can still watch online. But she said, I know

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Speaker 5: you hate me. Everyone here hates Me's It's okay because

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Speaker 5: Caylee Simba loved me. I told them that I love

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Speaker 5: them every day.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Take a listen to cut our cut twenty. This

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Speaker 1: is Gerald Tanzo, owner of Lock and Load gun store

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Speaker 1: with Shineker bought the murder weapon. He's talking about the

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Speaker 1: day she bought the gun. This is when he tells

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Speaker 1: me listen, So, when you sold Julie Shineker the murder weapon,

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Speaker 1: did you have any reason to believe she had a

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Speaker 1: mental illness, that she was insane, that she was drunk

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Speaker 1: or high, any reason you felt you should not sell

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Speaker 1: her a gun?

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Speaker 8: Not at all, not at all.

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Speaker 1: In fact, did you find it unusual for a woman

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Speaker 1: to be buying a gun?

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Speaker 8: We sold guns to women every day.

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Speaker 1: And again kind of gun? What kind of gun did

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Speaker 1: you say she bought?

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Speaker 8: Was a Smith and Wesson Bodyguard thirty eight?

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Speaker 1: And did she buy ammunition?

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Speaker 8: She bought ammunition too, correct?

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Speaker 1: When she left? What was her demeanor?

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Speaker 8: She was very nice, very very good, very presonerable, smiling, happy.

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Speaker 1: In fact, didn't she shake her hand when she left?

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Speaker 8: That was on the day of the pickup. Yeah, that

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Speaker 8: was on the twenty seventh, shook my hands, said goodbye,

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Speaker 8: and everything was fine.

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Speaker 1: Straight back out to Serena Zahn joining us. Serena, how

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Speaker 1: close in time did she get the gun, actually physically

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Speaker 1: get the gun to when she shot her children? Did?

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Speaker 5: I believe it was just like three days before perhaps

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Speaker 5: something like that. I'm trying to remember. We have about

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Speaker 5: three days less than a week before. And she claimed

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Speaker 5: that the intention was for her just to use the

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Speaker 5: gun on herself. That's what she first told the investiators,

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Speaker 5: that that was her intention, but then she changed her mind.

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Speaker 5: And you know, when you were talking about the kids

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Speaker 5: being shot, one of the stories that continued. I mean,

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Speaker 5: I just cannot picture this as all of us, as

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Speaker 5: most of his apparents. Little Bo was actually in the

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Speaker 5: car tying his shoe, right. He looked up at his

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Speaker 5: mom and said, Mom, what's wrong? And that's when she

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Speaker 5: shot him.

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Speaker 1: Convicted killer mother of two Julie Shineker in court demanding

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Speaker 1: a do over, blaming her lawyers for her guilty conviction.

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Speaker 1: But I've got news for her. The judge in the

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Speaker 1: last hours denies the request by Julie Shineker for a

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Speaker 1: new trial. That's right, in the last weeks. The judge says,

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Speaker 1: no way. Woman Julie Shineker convicted on two counts a

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Speaker 1: first degree murder in the death of her beautiful girl Kalyik,

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Speaker 1: sixteen and son Bo just thirteen years old. It's hard

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Speaker 1: to believe that this woman has gone through so much

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Speaker 1: demanding histrionics, lying over the deaths of her two children.

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Speaker 1: The murders now insisting she deserves a new trial, blaming,

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Speaker 1: blaming her lawyers. She had a fleet of attorneys at trial,

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Speaker 1: veteran trial lawyers. She testified in court quote, I don't

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Speaker 1: believe his expertise rose to the level of testifying for

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Speaker 1: insanity in this case. The doctor disputed that when he

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Speaker 1: was asked if his testimony would have lined up with

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Speaker 1: other defense experts, he said it would not only line up,

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Speaker 1: but would explain the impact of defense findings. Let me

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Speaker 1: just say they put on quite a show in the courtroom.

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Speaker 1: Daughter Klik shot in the bedroom working on homework, all

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Speaker 1: a student, both shot in the family suv, writing home

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Speaker 1: from a game with his mom. At the time. Shineker

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Speaker 1: admitted to the shooting killing her kids because they talked

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Speaker 1: back and were quote to Mauthey, all of the evidence

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Speaker 1: could be shown to a new jury if the judge

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Speaker 1: had decided in Shineker's favor. We're learning more about Julie

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Speaker 1: Shineker's rage at her husband's career surpassing her own, her

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Speaker 1: anger that he had to fly out of town for work.

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Speaker 1: She lived in a mansion, as I recall, with a

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Speaker 1: pool out back. I mean, she had it all as

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Speaker 1: this big, huge thing that most people only ever dream of.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you talk about the one percenters, that

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Speaker 1: would be them. But she was still angry. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to you. You are cut twenty seven.

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Speaker 11: This yellow thing around her came up and went through

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Speaker 11: the ceiling. And then I picked her up and put

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Speaker 11: her in bed and covered her up, and I sat

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Speaker 11: her up and I hugged her, and she didn't hug

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Speaker 11: me back, and I laid her down and I kissed

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Speaker 11: her good night, and I covered her up.

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Speaker 6: And then I.

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Speaker 13: Realized I forgot to cover up bow and it was January,

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Speaker 13: so I went and got a blanket and I covered

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Speaker 13: him up and kissed him good night. And I didn't

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Speaker 13: see any blood at all at all, but white and

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Speaker 13: a half years later I saw blood in the pictures,

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Speaker 13: But that day I don't.

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Speaker 1: Want no blood. What save it, lady, he murders your children,

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Speaker 1: all this covering them with a blanket and kissing them

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Speaker 1: and hugging them. I don't care. She murdered them. She

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Speaker 1: planned to murder them. She detailed it in riding out

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Speaker 1: of anger. Her husband left her to raise them when

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Speaker 1: he had to go away on trips. And then she

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Speaker 1: starts this with quote, this yellow thing around her came

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Speaker 1: out of her head and went through the ceiling to you,

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Speaker 1: Serena Fasodictys trying to say that was her daughter's soul.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, she told me that that was her daughter's soul,

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Speaker 5: her son's soul, and that they were going up to heaven.

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Speaker 5: And that's why she wanted the death penalty. She wanted

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Speaker 5: the death penalty initially because she wanted to join her children,

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Speaker 5: and there was a trial, there was that that's what

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Speaker 5: she wanted it. So she claimed at the very very beginning,

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Speaker 5: she said that she wanted she wished, she wished, she

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Speaker 5: got the death penalty.

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Speaker 1: Why is she just pleaded guilty.

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Speaker 5: That's the question, Nancy. And that's why you're so great

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Speaker 5: at what I'll tell you.

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Speaker 1: Why Because she did it with a death penalty and

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Speaker 1: she didn't want to go to jail. That's why you

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Speaker 1: have a trial, because you don't want to go to jail,

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Speaker 1: and the prosecutor does want you to go to jail. Guys,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's so best actors. Everything this woman says

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Speaker 1: is a calculated lie. Well, you know what, don't take

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Speaker 1: my word for it. Listen to our cut seventeen Julie

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Speaker 1: Shinneker murder Mom.

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Speaker 9: When you shot her in the head, did she fall

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Speaker 9: forward or anything? She fell sideways? And then how did

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Speaker 9: you shoot her in the mouth? Where was she laying?

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Speaker 4: I'm still going to share. Did you take it right

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Speaker 4: inside her mouth?

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Speaker 1: Inside?

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Speaker 4: Because from the outside of Shiah.

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Speaker 1: She kept referring to her daughter's mouth as quote her

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Speaker 1: sassy mouth. Okay to you asked you Wilcott judge and

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Speaker 1: trial lawyer and great court TV way in.

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Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, Nancy, you know I've been here biting

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Speaker 6: my tongue. I have so much to say. First of all,

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Speaker 6: here she's trying in this interview to act like oh

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Speaker 6: it was she was saving them and she saw their

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Speaker 6: souls go up. Let's talk about premeditation. She had written

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Speaker 6: a note about thinking about killing them by gas from

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Speaker 6: a car exhaust then she chose to go buy a gun, calmly, sanely, rationally,

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Speaker 6: according to the person that sold it to her. She

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Speaker 6: then claims they had math, they were mouthy, right, Okay.

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Speaker 6: So he's sitting in the back of the car, tying

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Speaker 6: a shoe, doing nothing, innoctantly, sitting there and she executes him.

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Speaker 6: Then she goes inside and executes her daughter, who is

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Speaker 6: doing homework on a computer. So none of this makes sense.

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Speaker 6: All of this is contrived by her to try to

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Speaker 6: cover up the fact that she murdered her her children

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Speaker 6: and cold. But there's no excuse, there's no justification. It

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Speaker 6: doesn't matter if she's angry at her husband, it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 6: There's no explaining this other than she evillly murdered her children.

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Speaker 1: You were hearing earlier on Julie Shineker as she was

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Speaker 1: speaking to police. Later, you were hearing her speaking to

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Speaker 1: our friends Serena Fazhan Serena when she would say these

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Speaker 1: things to you.

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Speaker 5: What was her demeanor she was, you know, she was

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Speaker 5: giving off that demeanor as feel sorry for me. You know,

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Speaker 5: she actually told me so. She told me that Bea

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Speaker 5: was the victim of sexual abuse and he was molested

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Speaker 5: at the age of six, but she wouldn't reveal by Hugh.

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Speaker 5: Then she said that she was great as sexually assault

404
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Speaker 5: and I'm sorry, I hate that other word. Team and

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00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 5: she was trying to protect her children from a similar fake.

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Speaker 5: So I kept on pushing her to say, who are

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Speaker 5: you protecting them from?

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00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: Who?

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Speaker 5: I mean, quite frankly, I thought they need to be

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Speaker 5: protected from her, and that clearly ended up being the case.

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Speaker 5: But that's what she told me in that interview.

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Speaker 1: So she changed her story. Said, yes, she changed her

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Speaker 1: story because the suggestion they were ever molested has never

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Speaker 1: been brought up until a behind jailhouse walls interview that

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Speaker 1: you managed to obtain. And so if you hear her

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Speaker 1: words that we played earlier when she was speaking to police,

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Speaker 1: she says, bo her little boy was quote sitting there

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Speaker 1: with his face blown out, so that was her idea

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Speaker 1: of protecting him. Guys, please take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: friend from hl and Jin Kasara speaking to me.

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Speaker 10: Police are alleging and prosecutors that when she was driving

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Speaker 10: her little thirteen year old two soccer practice, she shot

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Speaker 10: him in the head twice. He was dead. She went

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Speaker 10: back to the home, drove the car in the garage.

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Speaker 10: He stayed dead in the car in the garage. Then

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Speaker 10: she went to the second floor of their home, where

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Speaker 10: her sixteen year old daughter was on the computer doing homework.

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Speaker 1: Shot her twice in the head. Dead.

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Speaker 10: She was found the next morning in her bathrobe and slippers,

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Speaker 10: out and back with blood all over her.

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Speaker 1: To Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Frenziks Jacksonville State University, do

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Speaker 1: you see the comparison that she shot both off her

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Speaker 1: children in the head as she shot both of them twice?

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Speaker 14: Yeah?

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00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 14: And there's another piece here too, Nancy, that I've seen before.

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Speaker 14: And when we think about this beautiful girl just doing

438
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 14: her homework, I find it it's the fact that she

439
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 14: went back and shot her in the mouth says a lot.

440
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 14: I've worked many cases involving individuals who serial perpetrators in

441
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 14: particular that will mutilate individuals, sadist in fact, who will

442
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 14: carve up the mouth, that will do horrible things to

443
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 14: the mouth of individuals. And I'm not going to go

444
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 14: into all of the details, but it speaks a lot.

445
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 14: When you're doing a profile and an individual like this,

446
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 14: you can learn about where they're inflicting these injuries. The

447
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 14: daughter in particular is from just a straight up clinical standpoint,

448
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 14: is kind of interesting because of what she did. You know,

449
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 14: she's talking about this child, this child being mouthy, and

450
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 14: there's like this attempt to blow the mouth out. It's

451
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 14: almost symbolic and it's ultimately horrific. You guys, if folks

452
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 14: will just go and visit crime online and starts her name,

453
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 14: you guys have a fantastic stick article about this case,

454
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 14: and you can actually see the crime scene images and

455
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 14: it really puts you in that place where this little

456
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 14: girl is at her desk. Nancy. You can see the

457
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 14: computer there, you can see the bloodstains that are on

458
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 14: the floor, and just know that this girl didn't rise

459
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 14: to her feet. There was no there was no engagement

460
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 14: as far as an argument or a fight. She shot

461
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 14: this poor child where she sat.

462
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you just

463
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: joining as Julie Schinneker, the ultimate murder mom. First of all,

464
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: take us to Ed Lawrence at ABC Action News Our

465
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: Cut thirteen.

466
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 15: The diary talks and specifics about the two kids, thirteen

467
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 15: year old Bo and sixteen year old Klyx, called.

468
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 16: Me an evil soul and Prince sees the evil starts Thursday.

469
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 16: The technician went on to read another page labeled Thursday,

470
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 16: the day of the murders. The passage started talking about

471
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 16: how she shot both first in the car on the

472
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 16: way to practice, and she was surprised he had fight.

473
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 16: He was yelling at me. First shot hit the windshield.

474
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 16: Second shot was the side of the head. Next shot

475
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 16: was to the mouth, his mouth and mouth.

476
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 15: The diary talks about how both kids would talk back

477
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 15: to Scheneker and not treat her with respect, then describes

478
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 15: the murder of her daughter.

479
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 16: Came home, dash Kalyx was on the upstairs computer. She

480
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 16: said in quotations, what are you doing? Quotations, just see

481
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 16: what you're doing, walked up without her reacting, and shot

482
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 16: her in the right temple. Then shot her in the mouth,

483
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 16: and Prince sees her sassy little.

484
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: Mouth, and then we hear from her own her own mouth.

485
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: Listen to Carson Chambers at ABC Action News this is

486
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: cut eleven.

487
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 17: We were told by a medical examiner today that bo

488
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 17: and Kalox were shot at such close range that they

489
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 17: actually had burn marks on their skin. For defense attorney's

490
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 17: claim that she was insane at the time the slangs,

491
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 17: she was diagnosed bipolar with psychotic features, and that her

492
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 17: chronic mental illness stole everything from her, including her two children.

493
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 17: The State says Shineker actually planned that Saturday massacre with

494
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 17: a thirty eight revolver and hollow point bullets and then

495
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 17: wrote about the slangs in a diary.

496
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 12: Off to bow on the way to practice, he saw

497
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 12: the gun and told me to put it back in

498
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 12: the purse. He had a healthy fright. I accident evently

499
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 12: shot the window, the shot him one extra through, one

500
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 12: extra shot through the side of the head.

501
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 4: Then when then when we got home.

502
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 12: A shot to his mouth because he became so mouthy,

503
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 12: just like.

504
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 17: Klys And the state says that she also wrote in

505
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 17: the diary that she would have killed her husband, Colonel

506
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 17: Parker Shineker, had he been in the house at the time.

507
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 17: Of course, he was on assignment in Afghanistan.

508
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: Did you hear that, Serena Fison? How can she defend

509
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: shooting them both in the head and then both of

510
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: them and their mouth In her diary, which is what

511
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: I'm focusing on right now, she refers to them and

512
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: their mouthy mouth. In other words, they talk back to.

513
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 5: Her, it was crazy. And you know, she told me

514
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 5: though when she was sitting with me, that she wishes

515
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 5: that her husband, Colonel Parker Shineker, would have institutionalized her

516
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 5: when she asked him to do so in the past.

517
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 5: Now the question, of course, is we don't believe she

518
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 5: asked him to do that. She claimed that her pride

519
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 5: or their pride, because they lived they did live Nancy

520
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 5: meg gorgeous home, that it kept them from addressing her

521
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 5: mental illness or her mental health and they don't want

522
00:33:59,040 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 5: anybody to know.

523
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, let me understand this. So she's claiming she

524
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: had mental illness, and she was saying enough to know

525
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: she had a mental illness and to ask to go

526
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: to the doctor, but they didn't. She did not take

527
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: herself to a therapist, a shrink, a psychologist, a psychoanalysts,

528
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: a psychiatrist, because what she didn't want anybody to find out,

529
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: So she had a sacret mental illness. Is that what

530
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: you're telling me?

531
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 5: Yes, that is exactly what I'm telling you that she

532
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 5: to me.

533
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: She said to me it was her.

534
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 5: Pride that prevented her. And also she blamed her husband.

535
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: Of course she did, because he's in Afghanistan, right, but.

536
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 5: King Parker both did not want to address her mental

537
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,439
Speaker 5: illness because they were embarrassed by what their neighbors would think.

538
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: Guys on mental illness, take a listen to our cut

539
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: twelve Edward Lawrence ABC action.

540
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 15: The crime scene technician read her own words out loud

541
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 15: for the jury. I was planning on a Saturday massacre,

542
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 15: but had to wait on the background investigate before three days.

543
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 15: This comes from a spiral notebook written by Sheneker's hand.

544
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 1: It offers direction to her husband.

545
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 15: Prosecutors say it shows a calculating murderer waiting and plotting

546
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 15: her attack.

547
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 1: Okay, doctor Bethony Marshall, we need a shrink pronto.

548
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 3: Well, she reminds me of so many murderers who are

549
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 3: actually very The clinical term is histrionic, but I call

550
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 3: it drama queen. You know, the shooting them in the

551
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 3: mouth and the mouthy mouth and all of that. And

552
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 3: she's been very dramatic.

553
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 6: This idea that she.

554
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 3: Is saving them because they were molested or from future molestation.

555
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 3: That's what Andrea Yates did. Remember that she felt that

556
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 3: she had this delusion that if she didn't drown the kids,

557
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 3: that they would go to hell. So she was saving

558
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 3: them from hell by killing or drowning them. That was

559
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 3: Andrea Yates and Julie Shinakur is saving them because they've

560
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 3: been molested, and from what she's saving them from. It's

561
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 3: hard to say. I think this idea of mental illness

562
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 3: is what we call in the forensic community lingering. After

563
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 3: the fact, lingering as a fancy term for making up

564
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 3: some kind of an illness. So now she's going to

565
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 3: make up that she had a psychiatric illness. The motivation

566
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 3: for killing the kids is probably quite shallow. She just

567
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 3: didn't want them around. But you know, most parents who

568
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 3: kill their kids do it to get back at the

569
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 3: other parents, at the other parent, Right, So she's angry

570
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,720
Speaker 3: at her husband that he's on a tour of duty.

571
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 3: She's tired of taking care.

572
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 6: Of the kids.

573
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 3: She's probably harboring very angry thoughts at him. She strikes

574
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 3: out at the kids. What is the worst thing you

575
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 3: can do to a parent harm their kids? So this

576
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 3: is really not only an act towards the kids, This

577
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 3: is an act of violence and rage towards her husband

578
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 3: as well. And I was thing about her being preoccupied

579
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 3: with her own internal world. She's only tethered to one person,

580
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 3: and that's herself. She's not tethered to external reality, the

581
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 3: fact that she's going to go to prison or what

582
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 3: the rest of her life is going to be like.

583
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 3: She's just caught up in that immediate moment of rage.

584
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: To Serena Fazhan tell me about her Julie Shinniker and

585
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: her husband's that ground and how educated.

586
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 5: Oh, extremely educated. I believe they met in Germany and

587
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 5: they were looked as the power couple, you know, both

588
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 5: of them very put together, very well respected, just again

589
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 5: like a power couple. And she was a linguist, as

590
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 5: we talked about, extremely intelligent. After my interview with her,

591
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 5: I also am convinced she is a master manipulator as well.

592
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 5: Definitely a master manipulator. I mean she told the lead

593
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 5: prosecutor in the case with a guy byam with Jay Pruner.

594
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 5: She actually told me at the time that she commended

595
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 5: him for convincing the jury that she was not insane

596
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 5: and referenced previous moments in her life when she snapped,

597
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 5: you know, saying so she was very you know, she

598
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 5: says she's not insane, and then she's saying that she

599
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 5: was saying her story was all over the place. There

600
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 5: was an incident, and I know, I don't know if

601
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 5: people had talked about it, but I don't know when

602
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 5: it happened. It happened maybe a year, maybe several months

603
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 5: prior to this. But she actually headbutted an army commander's

604
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 5: wife at a function. I didn't know that. Yeah, she

605
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 5: had butted. It was during a Christmas party. And you know,

606
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 5: Parker Scheneker had said that those were the moments that

607
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 5: he knew that his wife were going out of.

608
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: Control, out of control. And they're saying two different things.

609
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: Headbutting another woman that at Christmas party, Okay, I'd say

610
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: that's not good. In saying, no, you know, it's interesting.

611
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: This is just evil to you. Actually world caught on

612
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: that evening January twenty seven, Shinnaker sends an email to

613
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: her then husband park Her. It says, quote, get home soon.

614
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,879
Speaker 1: We're waiting for you. But as a matter of fact,

615
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: she's just murdered the children. They were dead lying there,

616
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 1: and she says, hurry home.

617
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 6: I can't even begin to fathom the depths of her evilness.

618
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 6: I'm not going to say I believe that it's anything

619
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 6: other than that. I don't believe it's mental health. You know,

620
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 6: she's trying to paint it as Oh, I had to

621
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 6: give up my career, I'm angry with my husband. Crimea

622
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 6: River to then go the extra step, and we've already

623
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 6: heard she's very, very smart, so she's very revengeful manipulative

624
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 6: to know they're dead and send him that type of message.

625
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 1: I wonder what he thought when.

626
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 6: He read it. I wonder if he read it and thought,

627
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 6: what does this mean.

628
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the photo of these two beautiful children,

629
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 1: a professional photo. The family had made their smiling faces

630
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: smiling out at the world ahead of them, thanks to

631
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: their own mother, Julie Shineker. That dream is over and

632
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: those smiles gone forever. Julie Shineker, I'm tired of your

633
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: courtroom antics, your bs in your lies, wrought in hell, Mommy,

634
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend,