WEBVTT - Introducing Art Fraud - Episode 3: A Questionable Diebenkorn 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.200 The more we learn about COVID nineteen, the more questions 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.240 and worries we have. Cal Hope can help with free 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:10.000 COVID nineteen emotional support. Call eight three three three one 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:13.440 seven four six seven three or live chat at cal 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:18.520 hope dot org. Today, he loves me, he loves me not? 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.959 He loves me, He loves me not. He loves me not. 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.520 So he returned me because he had thirty days to 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:28.920 do so, which is plenty of time to discover you 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:33.560 don't love someone or in my case something, Because surprise, 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:37.000 I'm a CarMax car who is now back on the market. 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:41.760 Thirty day money back guarantee. It's car buying reimagined Carmacks 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:48.280 thirty day limits. See carmacks dot com for details. The 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:51.760 more we learn about COVID nineteen, the more questions we have. 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:57.240 The biggest question now, what's next? What will COVID bring 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:01.480 in six months a year? If you're feeling anxious about 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:05.360 the future, You're not alone. Cal Hope offers free COVID 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:11.479 nineteen emotional support. Call eight three three four six seven 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:16.120 three or live chat at cal hope dot org. Today 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:22.920 the art world is an unregulated business. Billions of dollars. 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:27.640 It is essentially a money laundering business. You're working with 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:32.480 an artificial scarcity of market, and so it's fraud with 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:40.720 people cutting corners and things happening. It was when a Freedman, 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:45.400 then the newly minted director of the Nidler Gallery First 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:51.680 met Rosalis, had a soho art opening. Larry Rubin had 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.680 been pushed out of Ndler a year earlier in a 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:58.600 coup that ended with Ann Friedman being installed at the 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:03.240 blessing of Michael Hammer. Knoedler's sails were flat, the clients 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.680 were leaving in droves, and Anne Friedman needed new work 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:11.119 to help propel the gallery forward. The Knoedler, always one 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:15.080 step behind the times, was hurtling towards the art world 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:22.160 of a new millennium. The galley's long time assistant, heime Andrade, 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:26.200 had introduced Ann to the soft spoken, polite woman of 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:31.120 Mexican heritage. As fate would have it, Glephara Rosalez had 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:36.799 two works of art on paper she wanted to sell. About. 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.800 All that any one could agree on was that heime 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.760 Andrade was a shy Equadorian man of modest height. He 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.560 was one of eleven children who had come to New 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.520 York in the early nineteen sixties and found a home 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:54.600 in a circle of artificionados. He'd made his way to 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:58.280 Larry Reuben's gallery on fifty seventh Street and worked as 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:01.680 the galley's driver. Reuben had then brought him over to 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.600 Knoedler as a sort of jack of old trades. His 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.840 job was to do pretty much whatever anyone wanted him 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.720 to do. As Anne put it in one of her 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:14.200 interviews for Vanity Fair, he would do everything from changing 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:18.000 light fixtures to running errands. But he always wore a 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:21.160 blazer and a tie and went to fancy dinner parties 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.880 and escorted well to do women. He was like a mascot, 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.320 but I mean that in a respectful way. He epitomized 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:32.800 the spirit of the gallery. Despite a faulty grasp of English. 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.840 After half a century, Hymie was perfectly capable of charming 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.720 one of those women into buying a painting from Knodler. 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:45.880 Andrade's greatest passion was Latin American art. As late as 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:50.000 two thousand eleven, while the forgery ring was metastasizing amid 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:54.720 criminal investigations, the boyish Andrade gave a talk about Ecuadorian 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.240 art and his fifty years of immersion in it at 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:02.840 the mid Manhattan Library. The Knodler, in a press release 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:07.400 for it, would describe Andrat's longtime friend and dealer David 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:11.440 Herbert as quote one of the best American portrait artists 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:16.800 unquote that was patently untrue. But Herbert, upon his death, 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:21.960 would be cast in another role as a central figure 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:26.240 in the back story of Ndler's conspiracy of fakes, possibly 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:30.320 aided and embedded by hime Andrade, who had just become 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:35.200 David Herbert's executor. With boxes of documents rich in art 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:39.400 world lore, Anne would never quite come out and say 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:43.080 explicitly that him may have steered her to the papers 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.599 that gave rise to a conspiracy ring of art forgers, 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:50.520 but more than one k Noodler's staffer would take umbrage 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.680 at the way Anne defended him less than forcefully in 0:04:53.800 --> 0:05:00.320 Vanity Fair. Was Anne implying that hime Andrade had reduced 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.839 her to Glafia Rosales knowing the two works at issue 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:07.400 were fake, or had I made done no more than 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.960 to introduce his boss to a Mexican woman who shared 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:15.520 his love of Latin American arts. Here again is writer 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:19.520 Michael Shnayerson. Leslie Feeley took a dim review of Anne 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:23.080 and her treatment of Himie. She said Anne treated Himie 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:26.360 more like a gopher than a mascot. Quote. He was 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.840 a very kind, dignified man, but Anne would send him 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.560 out to get her tampons. Unquote. He had a poor education, 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:38.320 the legacy of his childhood in Ecuador. Jimmy was a gopher. 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.599 He that's he was. He was going and he got 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.320 to know a lot of people in the art business. 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.120 He had more aught in his home, but all South American. 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:54.960 That's the Noteler's art handler. Joe Stevens Andrade rented a 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:58.560 ground floor apartment in an ornate but musty rental building 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:03.000 at seventeen East seventieth Street, literally next door to the Noodler. 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.640 He seemed to like being on call for whatever needs 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:09.640 a rose. I used to stay there whenever I had 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:13.360 openings because I worked so late, and now I don't. 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:14.680 I used to go to my wife said don't I'm 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:17.800 gonna come. I'm sand he niece, because Jimmy, we'd go 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:19.720 a call out and have you know, you know, at 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.000 ten o'clock, ten thirty at night, after we locked up 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.080 and tell me about the apartment that he had. It 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.720 was stuffed, like this place is three four times bigger 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:32.560 than his apartment. He had a huge and art work everywhere. 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:36.160 Fifty pieces on the wall is big. He had all 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:44.480 this African South American sculptures everywhere, boxes everywhere. You couldn't 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:48.680 put another thing on that counter. That's a packed. He 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:52.919 had closets filled with this stuff. He was like, it 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:58.640 looked like a whoid uphoid did everything. Rosalee and Androde 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:02.200 had struck up a friendship based on Latin American art 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:06.400 sometime in the late nineteen nineties. At some point, Rosalvas 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:09.040 mentioned she was trying to sell two works on paper 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:13.720 by Richard Deepencorn, the great abstract artist represented for years 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:18.680 by the Knoedler Gallery until Larry Reuben's departure and Anne's promotion. 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.840 Didai may think Ann Friedman might take a look and 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:27.280 tell Glyphia what she thought. This was a pivotal moment, 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:32.000 the first time Glyphia Rosalis focused on Ann Friedman as 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:37.880 her target for newly minted forgeries. Soon enough, Ann Friedman 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:43.200 found herself looking at a pair of classic deepen Corn drawings. Sadly, 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:47.160 that great profusion of Ocean Park paintings and drawings. All 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:50.760 those Christmas mornings the staff had described opening brand new 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.400 deep In Corn work had come to an end. Deepen 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:57.600 Corn had died in nineteen ninety three, and his daughter 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.760 Gretchen and son in law Richard Grant, co heads of 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.840 the Artists Foundation, had ended the galleries long association with 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:08.800 deep and Corn. They didn't much like Ann Friedman. They 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.320 liked her even less after the coup that put her 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:17.040 in charge. Still, Noodler was widely known as deep and 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:21.320 Corn's main gallery. There would be no more primary works 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:25.360 directly from the artist, but secondary works, those that had 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.840 changed hands at least once, were fair game for anyone 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.880 who wanted to buy or sell them, and Nodler could 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.679 put buyers and sellers together as well or better than 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:38.199 anyone else, given its history with the artist. So when 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:42.080 GPA offered to show an too Deepen Corns, the Nodler's 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:48.480 director jumped the chance. Days after Anne's coup in novemb 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.720 a certain calm had come over the Knoedler Gallery. Larry 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.320 Reuben had even agreed to stay on as director until 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.559 the last day of the year. The old art World 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:03.440 War horse had recovered his spirits somewhat and shrugged off 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.400 the coup. Perhaps it was time for him to leave 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:11.760 Niedler after all. Gracefully, he even did Ann Friedman a 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.520 favor by agreeing to take a look at the too 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:18.120 Deep and Corn works on paper. Like most of Deep 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.960 and Corn's work since the mid nineteen sixties, these were 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:25.560 geometrical abstractions from his Ocean Park series. When Anne asked 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:30.199 where they'd come from, Rosalas demurred. Regrettably. She said her 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:36.480 client wanted to remain anonymous. That was hardly unusual for 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.360 works brought in by perfect strangers. Unfortunately, neither of the 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:44.160 drawings had identifying marks on their verso verso is what 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:48.200 dealers call the back of an artwork, no record of 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.439 the works tracing back to the artist's studio. There was 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:55.520 no trace of later buyers and sellers, no auction markings either. 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.640 In a word, the drawings had no provenance. That was 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:08.720 a problem. So what is provenance. It's the paper trail 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.080 of what we know about an artwork, starting from the 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:13.719 time it was created. It tells us who owned it, 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.880 when it was sold, where it was shown, and so forth. 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.679 Had Deep and Corn been alive? The issue of provenance 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:25.000 for these works would have been moot. After all, the 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.160 artist was the best judge of his own work. He 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:31.040 could say in an instant whether these two drawings were 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:35.080 done by his hand or not. When an artist died, 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.840 the primary work he left behind in his studio or 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:43.040 home was easy to judge and usually genuine too, so 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.240 it wasn't difficult for the artist's family or executor to 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:51.320 authenticate those works and record them for posterity. The challenge 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:55.840 came with secondary works sold after the artist's death, works 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:59.640 bought and sold and bought again, works that sometimes vanished 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:05.840 and and reappeared. Were they real or not? An artist 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:10.200 like deep and Corn post a special challenge. His Ocean 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:15.160 Park works were all beautiful, but also quite similar. Larry Reuben, 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.200 as it turned out, was underwhelmed by the ocean park 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:22.160 esque drawings, and Friedman showed him quote. I told her 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.120 I did not think they were good, Reuben later told 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.720 Vanity fair, which was to say I thought they were fake. 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:35.559 He said the gallery couldn't or certainly shouldn't sell them. 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:39.480 Not long after, deepn Corn's widow, Phillis, paid a visit 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.800 to the Noddler with her daughter Gretchen, and Friedman had 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.240 called the drawings to their attention, and the family were 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.679 worried about them. When Anne laid them out on a 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:51.360 table at the gallery, Gretchen and Phillis stared at those 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:56.200 drawings for a long time. They looked quite good. We really, 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:02.200 we're pretty impressed. It was clearly a beautiful piece. I 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:06.559 am Gretchen deep in corn Grant. My father is Richard 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:11.000 deep and Corny. Despite the exceptional quality of the works, 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:15.280 the family felt they were not authentic. You could see 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:20.440 the hand of the forger in both of them. You 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:25.160 look at someone's work long enough, and my entire life 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:31.360 seventy six years old, so I was alive during my 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:37.720 father's career, and you have a sense of it. Not perfect, 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.679 but you do have a pretty good sense. What I 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:45.520 said to and at the time was that the problem 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:49.600 for me was that they didn't have any soul. They 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:53.320 didn't seem to breathe. I just couldn't relate to it, 0:12:53.400 --> 0:13:02.160 even though it was clearly a beautiful piece, and reactions 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.559 surprised them. She didn't even thank them for calling attention 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:09.559 to what might be fake Deepen corns. Neither did she 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.800 suggest she would hand them back to their owner, whoever 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.160 They might be. The whole question of what the nobler 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:20.760 might do with them was simply not addressed. Of course, 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:24.680 she didn't say to a freedman, I think they are fake, 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:28.080 because you know, in the art world you cannot call 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:31.240 something a fake because if you do so, you might 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:35.080 be sued for defamation of property. So people are very careful. 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.240 J Seli Reggaetel is a reporter currently with the Center 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:43.120 for Investigative Reporting. She pursued the Notler story for several 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.880 years and came up with a few scoops, starting with 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:49.959 the story of Dr Bernard Krueger. They might say this 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.240 doesn't look right, but you don't quite say this is fake. 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.000 So it's quite interesting that I talked to both Rush 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.560 and Demnquirn as she was seeing this, this pieces as 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.679 they were about to be sold, and then I also 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.439 talked to Bernard Krueger, who was looking at the pieces 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:10.080 from the buyer's perspective, and in both instances, you see 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:13.760 there were several things strange about this. You know, where 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.319 they were coming from, how they looked, how much they 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:22.000 were being offered. All of those things adapt to you know, 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:28.200 there's something strange happening here. Here's Francis Beatty again. I 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.440 do remember going to a deep and Corn show of 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.560 deep and corn works on paper and someone saying to me, 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:39.720 you have to be super careful because you want to 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.680 make sure that you're not buying one of the things 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:49.320 that the family has disavowed. And the idea that you 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:54.720 would show something, let alone sell it, that the family 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:59.760 of the artist has disavowed, is absolutely shocking. I mean, 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:05.480 you have a responsibility to your client, and if something 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.680 has a cloud over it, the cloud is never going 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:16.800 to disperse. Since the drawings were secondary market works, the 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.000 family couldn't keep Ann Friedman from doing what she wanted 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:24.640 with them, which was, of course, to sell them. As 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.960 Larry Reuben later told Vanity Fair and Freedman could justify 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.680 selling those two drawings because the artist's wife had not 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:36.720 called them fake, nor had Larry Reuben. I wasn't one 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.160 sure they weren't real, Reuben explained later. And you can 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:43.880 get into a lot of trouble by declaring something as 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.960 fake when you don't have the hard evidence. And since 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.000 I was leaving, I said to Anne, fine, you handle it, 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:55.000 and she did. Despite the doubts expressed by the family 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.480 and Freedman sold the deep and corn drawings to the 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:08.960 perfect buyer. More art fraud in a minute. Hi, I'm 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.600 Joe Piazza, the host of Under the Influence. On season 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.240 two of our podcast, we're exploring what it means to 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.120 be a woman on social media. We're going into different 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.120 pockets of influencing to talk about how Instagram is a 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:24.360 reflection of all the ways that women are mistreated in 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.680 our society. We're going into some of the darkest corners 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.840 of the social media universe and we might just have 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:35.000 a plan to shut it all that held down. Listen 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.680 to season two of Under the Influence with Joe Piazza 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.920 on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:45.200 you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Arden Marine from Shameless 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:48.200 and Stationable, Chelsea Lately and the I Heart Radio podcast 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.160 Will You Accept This Rose? And I'm Julianne Robinson and 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:55.000 Emmy and bafta nominated director most recently of Bridgetin. And 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:57.480 we are the hosts of Lady of the Road, a 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:00.640 funny and inspiring podcast where we have come stations with 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.080 influential women about their lives and we get self help advice. 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.880 We're always looking to improve ourselves and we figure there's 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.960 no better source for learning how to be brave, take 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:14.000 risks and advocate for yourself in life than speaking with motivating, 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:16.919 uplifting women. Some of them we've met throughout our careers 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:18.880 and some of them were just meeting now. We talk 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:22.919 about money, health, relationships, parenthood, running a business, you name it, 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:28.040 from inspiring women like Joan Jet, Nicole Buyer, Lauren Lobkis Htta, 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:32.399 Ricky Lynde, Tom Kate mccouchee, Kate Walsh, shondaland producer Betsy 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.679 bears Adua and o Jen Kirkman and more. Listen and 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.359 subscribe to Lady of the Road on the I Heart 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.800 Radio app Apple Podcasts over if you get your podcasts 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.600 from Cavalry Audio, the studio that brought you The Devil 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:53.080 Within and The Shadow Girls, comes a new true crime podcast, 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.320 The Pink Moon Murders. The local sheriff believes there may 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:00.280 be more than one killer. It's been four days since 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:02.879 those bodies were found and there's no arrest as it 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:04.879 this morning. They were afraid to face it out in 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.480 that area, what if they come back or whatever. It 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:09.639 scared me to death, Like it scared me, I was 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.919 very very intimidating to live here. Crazy to think you 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:15.680 go to sleep one night, maybe snuggling with your loved one, 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:17.879 and never wake up, or maybe you wake up in 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.680 a struggle for your life, which you lose. Joint host 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.080 David Radiman as he explores one fateful night when evil 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.920 descended upon small town, Ohio killed eight members of an 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.639 Ohio family in a pre planned execution. The family was targeted, 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.680 most of them targeted while they were sleeping. The Pink 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.639 Moon Murders is available on February twenty second, and you 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.760 can follow The Pink Moon Murders on the I Heart 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.400 Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:48.560 Not long after the Deep and Corn families disconcerting visit 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:52.680 to Knoedler, a doctor named Bernard Krueger received a phone 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:57.400 call he never expected to get. Krueger was a collector, 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.680 perhaps not a great collector, but an eager one, especially 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.760 in regard to Richard deep In Corn's work. He liked 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:08.560 to think he had an inside track. He was, after all, 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:13.840 and Friedman's doctor. He told me he loved Devoncorn's work 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:16.960 for many years, and at the time he was alive 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.080 in the nineties, and even before that, I think he 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.280 started buying the first diven corns in the eighties. He 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.560 had to go through Knodler because at the time Richard 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:31.320 Devon Corn was alive and Knodler represented him. And what 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:35.280 ben Krueger told me is that every time he wanted 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.160 to buy a piece, it was not easy. You would 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.600 think you have money, you want to buy a piece 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:42.520 of art. You walk in and say, I want this, 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.439 But that's not how it works in the art world. 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.240 You know, there is no like free market, or you know, 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:52.080 they sell for whoever they want to sell, and they 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.119 might give a price to me and a different price 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:58.679 to you. And the way that Bernard described to me 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:03.679 is that in Freedman quite difficult and quite protective, and 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.640 she would say to him, no, you cannot buy this one. 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:09.360 If you want, you can buy this other one. He 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.160 said to me, I would need to beg to buy, 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.320 and sometimes she would let me buy, and sometimes she wouldn't. 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:18.120 And I asked him why why would she do that? 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:20.920 And he said, well, that was her way of having 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:26.000 power and having control. Despite having an inside track as 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:30.160 hands doctor Bernard Krueger was having a difficult time purchasing 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:34.400 a work from the artist he most coveted. Surprisingly, all 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.679 of that would change after Deep and Corn passed away 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:43.439 in early and all of a sudden, Bernard Krueger gets 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:46.680 a call from Knoedler saying, we have the two dippen 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:50.679 corns for you to see. You know, they just came in. 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:53.119 I think you would like it. I was already like, 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:57.600 wait a minute, don't you think that was change? For years, 0:20:57.600 --> 0:20:59.920 you've been begging to buy a dipping corn, all of 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.879 her sudden they're calling you and offer you a dipping corn. 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:05.560 And he said no. I thought I was great. I 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:07.480 thought I was finally getting a good deal on a 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:11.440 dipping corn because he bought one of them, and that 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:16.120 was one of the fakes. If I remember the numbers right. 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:18.879 He told me the last depon corn he had bought 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:22.120 for like a hundred twenty five hundred thirty five thousand, 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.480 and that when he bought for eighty thou dollars. So 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:27.840 again he was thrilled. He's like, all of a sudden 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.880 had been offered a deep and corn, and it's cheaper 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:35.320 than the last one I bought. Loadler did well by 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.359 those two Deep and Corn sales, earning forty five thousand 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:43.280 dollars on each. When word of the sale reached the 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:47.480 deep and Corn family, they were shocked, As the late 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:51.480 artist's daughter, Gretchen said, we thought, being the naive people 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:54.680 we were and being honest, we basically thought she would 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:58.840 simply return them and that would be that. Instead, she 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:03.960 wrote a letter to my mother and to me that 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:09.359 we had come to the gallery and authenticated these works, 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:14.120 and therefore she had sold them, and we were very distressed. 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:18.240 I wanted to write to Anne and tell her that 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:22.200 this was not okay and that we had not authenticated them. 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:25.000 She can sell whatever she wants, but she can't say 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:32.080 that we authenticated it. And my mother was very shy 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:38.400 about being in an antagonistic position with anybody, and she 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:42.359 really didn't want me to write for on behalf of 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:49.960 myself or on behalf of her, and so that was dropped. Later, 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.280 Dr Krueger would say he had sold the works and 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:56.960 had no idea where they were perhaps, But over the 0:22:57.000 --> 0:23:00.800 next fifteen years the Deepened Corns would routinely here of 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:04.840 fake Deepen Corn works on paper popping up in the market. 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:09.200 Each new appearance meant that some new owner was trying 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:12.680 to unload his Deepen Corns, either with or without the 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:18.320 knowledge that they were fake. When the works once again vanished, 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:22.360 the implication was just as clear. Some new owner had 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:25.880 been duped or worse, set out to con his own 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:32.800 next prospective buyer. In the years to come, stories like 0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:35.440 that would find their way to the Deepen Corn Foundation 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:40.320 on a regular basis. Eventually, the family counted some two 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:43.359 d and fifty deep in Corn images around the world, 0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:48.640 submitted for authentication or just out of curiosity. They ranged 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:52.720 from the occasional top drawer forgery to an art student's 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:56.480 homage for class credit left in a garage to be 0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:03.840 celebrated briefly as the real McCoy. Times were tough in 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:07.600 the art market, and few galleries were feeling it as 0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:10.360 much as Noler, which had little to live on after 0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:16.280 Larry Reuben's departure other than its reputation and venerability. I mean, 0:24:16.680 --> 0:24:20.919 she wasn't making much money at I mean, business wasn't good, 0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:30.400 and so she needs something was needed, something really special need. Still, 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:34.440 Anne seemed to harbor lingering concerns about those works. Perhaps 0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:37.440 she was eager to prove their authenticity to herself and 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:40.399 to pave the way for more paintings from Glafira Rosales. 0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:44.119 Surely Gafia could share with Anna telling detail or two 0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:48.320 details to assure her the works had some shred of provenance. 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:56.320 Gently but firmly declined to say anything about where the 0:24:56.359 --> 0:25:00.960 deep and corn drawings had come from. She would only 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:04.840 say she was representing a man she called mister X Junior, 0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:08.639 whose parents had passed on to their son more paintings 0:25:08.800 --> 0:25:11.880 by some of the best known artists of the post 0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:16.600 war period. Soon enough, Anne was calling him mister ex 0:25:16.680 --> 0:25:20.119 Junior too, and referring to his parents as mister and 0:25:20.200 --> 0:25:24.560 missus X. It sounded a bit silly, but maybe a 0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:28.480 van played ball Glyphia might introduce Anne to mister ex Junior. 0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:32.439 Glyphia did say that mister ex Junior had more works 0:25:32.480 --> 0:25:37.440 to sell if they could be placed discreetly. These were 0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:41.920 works that had been long stored by mister X hermetically sealed. 0:25:42.040 --> 0:25:46.120 Even Glyphia had said the paintings had been in storage 0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:49.480 for so long that critics and collectors would be thrilled 0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:55.160 to see these lost masterpieces finally unwrapped. I have never 0:25:55.600 --> 0:25:59.800 and I actually don't have any colleagues who I know 0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:06.640 who have regularly managed to obtain from a private person 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:12.359 a picture for let's say two hundred thousand dollars that 0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:15.960 then they could sell for eight hundred thousand dollars. I mean, 0:26:16.200 --> 0:26:23.400 it just simply doesn't happen. If somebody came to me 0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:29.520 and said, I want to sell you this Clifford Still, 0:26:29.960 --> 0:26:35.000 and I know that the Clifford still's fair market price 0:26:35.200 --> 0:26:39.800 would be a million, and they say to me, well, 0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:42.600 I'm going to sell it to you for two hundred thousand, 0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:50.159 I would think immediately that it was hot. What other conclusion. 0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:53.680 It's the same in any business. I think if you're 0:26:53.720 --> 0:26:56.600 a diamond merchant, somebody comes to you with the diamond 0:26:57.080 --> 0:27:00.720 and they're selling it to you for twenty percent of 0:27:00.760 --> 0:27:03.800