WEBVTT - Executive Disorder: White House Weekly #34

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<v Speaker 1>Old media.

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<v Speaker 2>This is it could happen here. Executive Disorder, our weekly

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<v Speaker 2>newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world,

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<v Speaker 2>and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis today

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<v Speaker 2>I'm joined by James Stout, Miya Wong, and Robert Evans.

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<v Speaker 3>Yep.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode, we're covering the week of September eleven to

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<v Speaker 2>September eighteenth.

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<v Speaker 4>Normally a week in history when very little happens.

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<v Speaker 2>The most normal week of American politics.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Traditionally, nothing around the first third of September's days

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<v Speaker 1>has as ever mattered in American history.

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<v Speaker 2>We should schedule our calendar just to block out this

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<v Speaker 2>whole section of the year each time.

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<v Speaker 1>I already have it written down in micah calendar as

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<v Speaker 1>the week to forget, so I just spend it drinking.

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<v Speaker 2>Robert, do you want to introduce our first topic?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I mean our first topic, as we talked about

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<v Speaker 1>last week, is the fallout from the murder of Charlie Kirk,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly its impact on free speech and the pretext it's

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<v Speaker 1>being used for to justify a crackdown on the quote

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<v Speaker 1>unquote left. Different NGOs and other organizations that are being

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<v Speaker 1>accused of being part of a vast and let's say,

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<v Speaker 1>unlikely conspiracy to commit terrorism that has nothing to do

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<v Speaker 1>with what's actually been discovered about Tyler Robinson Charlie Kirk's killer,

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<v Speaker 1>but nonetheless it's being used that way, and kind of

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<v Speaker 1>the first thing to probably talk about is what's come

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<v Speaker 1>out about Tyler Robinson's motivations in the time since we

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<v Speaker 1>recorded our last episode. Honestly, I was kind of surprised

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<v Speaker 1>Gerre when we recorded on Friday.

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<v Speaker 3>I had expected us.

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<v Speaker 1>To need to do an update before Monday in order

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<v Speaker 1>to catch up. Really, there wasn't much that came out.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I did a brief update confirming that he was

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<v Speaker 2>living with a transperson, but that was really all we

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<v Speaker 2>knew with the time that could be confirmed. That was

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<v Speaker 2>pretty evergreen as we suspected it might be, and I

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<v Speaker 2>will say, frankly, the motive still remains not entirely clear,

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<v Speaker 2>but we do have some more concrete details about his

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<v Speaker 2>online background. Yeah, and a few others like ancillary pieces

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<v Speaker 2>which is included in the charging document, as well as

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<v Speaker 2>reporting on his discord logs.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think we should talk first about the whole

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<v Speaker 1>trans roommate thing of it all because obviously, first off,

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<v Speaker 1>this is one of the most massive reaches I've seen,

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<v Speaker 1>Like they're always desperate to have a trans connection anytime

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<v Speaker 1>there's a shooting.

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<v Speaker 2>They were trying to establish this literally like seconds after

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<v Speaker 2>it happened.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's been the case with like the last year

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<v Speaker 1>and a half or two worth of mass shootings yea,

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<v Speaker 1>or at least a sizeable number of them.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that was a meme.

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<v Speaker 4>Right for why it's like a four Chan thing to

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<v Speaker 4>suggest that any mass shooter was trans and now it's

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<v Speaker 4>just become reality.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And in this case, the legation started coming out from

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<v Speaker 1>the police that his roommate was transgender. This was before

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<v Speaker 1>the discord logs had leaked. So I want you to

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<v Speaker 1>talk a little bit. Gare you found the Reddit profile

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<v Speaker 1>of Tyler Robinson's roommate. Yeah, So first question is do

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<v Speaker 1>we know if they actually were trans and do we

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<v Speaker 1>know if they actually were in some sort of a relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>What is the actual evidence that exists to suggest that

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<v Speaker 1>based on what we have so far, they.

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<v Speaker 2>Did post about their transition on multiple subreddits and public

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<v Speaker 2>facing posts, and they referred to having a boyfriend BF

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<v Speaker 2>that was helping them cope with the results of the

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four election. But that's really all we can

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<v Speaker 2>tell from this at the time of public Reddit profile

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<v Speaker 2>for the roommate of Tyler Robinson, who had again some

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<v Speaker 2>sort of romantic relationship with the like nitty gritty you know,

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<v Speaker 2>arc of their whole relationship is like not explicitly clear,

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<v Speaker 2>but but certainly a pad a romantic relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I want to make it clear, which should

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<v Speaker 1>be obvious to anyone who has like a third of

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<v Speaker 1>a brain cell to rub together against the inside of

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<v Speaker 1>their skull. There's not any evidence that this roommate was

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<v Speaker 1>tied in any way to the Tyler Robinson's crimes, and

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<v Speaker 1>in fact, the exit evidence.

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<v Speaker 2>The state is arguing this that the roommate had no

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<v Speaker 2>prior knowledge and has been fully cooperative. That the roommate

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<v Speaker 2>is not involved.

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<v Speaker 1>Not only is fully cooperative, but turned Tyler in.

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<v Speaker 2>In part or produced evidence that was now used in

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<v Speaker 2>the charging documentary. Tyler turned himself in with his father,

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<v Speaker 2>like officially, but there was certainly conversations happening.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And it's one of those things you can come

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<v Speaker 1>down morally on that however you want. It's just a

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<v Speaker 1>matter of there's absolutely no evidence, as people like Matt

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<v Speaker 1>Walsher saying that this is part of some grand LGBT conspiracy.

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<v Speaker 1>Their roommates seemed horrified to have been and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>understandably terrified to have been potentially implicated in a massive act,

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<v Speaker 1>massively faced active murder, right, Like, that's a that's a

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<v Speaker 1>scary thing to come. You like get a discord message realizing, oh, fuck,

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<v Speaker 1>now I'm potentially implicated in this.

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<v Speaker 3>So I do have some.

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<v Speaker 1>Understanding for what a shocking moment that is. Like, it's

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<v Speaker 1>hard to imagine, yeah, dealing with that in any way,

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<v Speaker 1>shape or form. That's just a wild thing to have

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<v Speaker 1>happened in the middle of your fucking day, presumably while

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<v Speaker 1>you're at work or some shit. This would have been

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<v Speaker 1>around noon, so I'm guessing they were on the job

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<v Speaker 1>when they got these messages. She's a horrible, horrible thing

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<v Speaker 1>to deal with.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's go over some of the text exchanges included

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<v Speaker 2>in the charging document. It's technically not an indictment because

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<v Speaker 2>they did not charge via grand jury. Yeah, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>placeholder for that. Yeah, but it's referred to as like

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<v Speaker 2>a charging information document that they included some text messages

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<v Speaker 2>because it was the clearest evans to lay out to

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<v Speaker 2>charge them with the crime. So not the only evidence,

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<v Speaker 2>as we will soon discuss. And these text logs are

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<v Speaker 2>are core to like people like Walsh's current argument that

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<v Speaker 2>the trans roommate must have actually been involved because they

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<v Speaker 2>think that the messages that I'm going to read here

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<v Speaker 2>we were like scripted between the roommate and the shooter

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<v Speaker 2>specifically to exonerate the roommate, and that's the conspiracy that

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<v Speaker 2>people like Walsher spreading. Let's go over this section of

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<v Speaker 2>this document.

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<v Speaker 4>Quote.

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<v Speaker 2>The police interviewed Robinson's roommate, a biological male who was

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<v Speaker 2>involved in a metal relationship with Robinson. The roommate told

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<v Speaker 2>police that the roommate received messages from Robinson about the

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<v Speaker 2>shooting and provided those messages to police. On September tenth,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty five, the roommate received a text message from

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<v Speaker 2>Robinson which said, drop what you are doing, look under

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<v Speaker 2>my keyboard. The roommate looked under the keyboard and found

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<v Speaker 2>a note that stated I had the opportunity to take

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<v Speaker 2>out Charlie Kirk and I'm going to take it unquote.

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<v Speaker 2>Police found a photograph of this note. The following text

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<v Speaker 2>exchange then took place. After reading the note, the roommate responded,

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<v Speaker 2>what with many question marks? You're joking, right, Robinson? I

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<v Speaker 2>am still okay, my love, but I am stuck in

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<v Speaker 2>orm for a little while longer yet, shouldn't be long

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<v Speaker 2>until I can come home. But I got to grab

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<v Speaker 2>my rifle still. To be honest, I'd hoped to keep

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<v Speaker 2>this secret till I died of old age. I'm sorry

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<v Speaker 2>to involve you, roommate. You weren't the one who did it, right,

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<v Speaker 2>many question marks, Robinson, I am sorry, roommate. I thought

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<v Speaker 2>they caught the person, Robinson. No, they grabbed some crazy

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<v Speaker 2>old dude that interrogated someone in similar clothing. I had

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<v Speaker 2>planned to grab my rifle from my drop point shortly after,

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<v Speaker 2>but most of that side of town got locked down.

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<v Speaker 2>It's quiet, almost enough to get out. There's one vehicle lingering.

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<v Speaker 3>Roommate.

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<v Speaker 2>Why Robinson, Why did I do it? Roommate? Yeah, Robinson,

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<v Speaker 2>I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be

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<v Speaker 2>negotiated out. If I'm able to grab my rifle unseen,

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<v Speaker 2>I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to

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<v Speaker 2>retrieve it again. Hopefully they have moved on I haven't

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<v Speaker 2>seen anything about them finding it. Roommate, how long have

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<v Speaker 2>you been planning this, Robinson? A bit over a week.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe I can get close to it, but there's

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<v Speaker 2>a squad car parked right by it. I think they

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<v Speaker 2>already swept that spot. But I don't want to chance it, Robinson.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm wishing i'd circle back and grabbed it as soon

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<v Speaker 2>as I got to my vehicle. I'm worried what my

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<v Speaker 2>old man would do if I didn't bring back Grandpa's rifle.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it had a serial number, but

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<v Speaker 2>it wouldn't trace to me. I worry about Prince. I

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<v Speaker 2>had to leave it in a bush where I changed outfits.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't have the ability or time to bring it

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<v Speaker 2>with I might have to abandon it and hope they

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<v Speaker 2>don't find Prince. How the fuck will I explain losing

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<v Speaker 2>it to my old man. Only thing I left was

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<v Speaker 2>the rifle wrapped in a towel. Remember how I was

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<v Speaker 2>engraving bullets. The fucking messages are mostly a big meme.

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<v Speaker 2>If I see notices bulge ooh wu on Fox News,

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<v Speaker 2>I might have a stroke. All right, I'm gonna have

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<v Speaker 2>to leave it that really fucking sucks. Judging from today,

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<v Speaker 2>I'd say Grandpa's gun does just fine. IDK, I think

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<v Speaker 2>that was a two thousand dollars scope, Robinson, Delete this exchange, Robinson.

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<v Speaker 2>My dad wants photos of the rifle, he says, Grandpa

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<v Speaker 2>wants to know who has what. The Feds released a

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<v Speaker 2>photo of the rifle and it is very unique. He's

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<v Speaker 2>calling me r n not answering, Robinson. Since Trump got

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<v Speaker 2>into office, my dad has been a pretty diehard Mega.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to turn myself in willingly. One of my

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<v Speaker 2>neighbors here is a deputy for the sheriff. You are

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<v Speaker 2>all I worry about, love roommate. I'm much more worried

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<v Speaker 2>about you, Robinson. Don't talk to the media. Please, don't

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<v Speaker 2>take any interviews or make any comments. If police ask

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<v Speaker 2>you questions, ask for a lawyer, and stay silent. That's

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<v Speaker 2>the end of the exchange.

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<v Speaker 3>Yep.

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<v Speaker 4>It seems like this person fairly wisely stopped engaging with their.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's not a good response to give to that. No,

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<v Speaker 1>that's not and discord again. One of the one thing

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<v Speaker 1>I would hope this would bust is the This has

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<v Speaker 1>to have been a professional hit man, assassin of some sort,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a job that I mean, it technically exists.

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<v Speaker 1>Like there are guys who are for the fucking crypts

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<v Speaker 1>of the Bloods. You could call them professional hitmen, and

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<v Speaker 1>that they kill people for money. But they're not like

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<v Speaker 1>the people you see in movies, Like they're guys who

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<v Speaker 1>will walk up with a thirty eight and gut shoot

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<v Speaker 1>somebody and run the fuck off like they're they're not

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<v Speaker 1>We're not talking about like smooth operators. Those people almost

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<v Speaker 1>don't exist as a profession and certainly not as a

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<v Speaker 1>standard thing in the United States. And that that like

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that he was having this kind of conversation

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<v Speaker 1>on discord.

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<v Speaker 2>This is I believe, regular text.

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<v Speaker 3>So these are regular regular text.

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<v Speaker 4>This is straight up yeah sms right, Like, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>He's messaging this shit through unencrypted lines and left a

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<v Speaker 1>note under his keyboard and dropped the rifle in the woods,

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<v Speaker 1>Like this is all about what you respeck from a

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<v Speaker 1>twenty two year old kid who's a reasonably good shot

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<v Speaker 1>with a rifle and had no real other skills, Like

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<v Speaker 1>it's what it looked like.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, this doesn't even seem like someone who spent a

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<v Speaker 4>great deal of time planning, right, like learning about that.

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<v Speaker 2>They said they've been planning about it for about a week.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, this lines up with what they said, right, like

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<v Speaker 4>like yeah, and they seem almost surprised.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I got this weird feeling reading it, Like Tyler

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<v Speaker 1>almost is shocked that they did it. Like there's this

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<v Speaker 1>almost sense of being pulled by history.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's seemingly confused by his own actions in his CeNSE.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, like watching himself almost like.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, and like I I inscrite, like one of the things.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds like and this is a little unclear, but

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<v Speaker 1>it sounds like in terms of those memes winding up.

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<v Speaker 1>But he was doing that before, maybe even before he'd

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<v Speaker 1>ever planned to shoot Kirk. That's just like a thing

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<v Speaker 1>he did for shit.

0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:54.439
<v Speaker 3>For people.

0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.520
<v Speaker 2>People have pointed to that as being like, oh, well,

0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.120
<v Speaker 2>obviously the roommate knew something was up. If if the

0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.760
<v Speaker 2>roommate was aware that that Robinson was carving bullets, that's,

0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.600
<v Speaker 2>first of all, that's not a crime. No, people just

0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.920
<v Speaker 2>do weird shit sometimes, especially if someone goes to the range.

0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.560
<v Speaker 2>Often maybe they're gonna fucking scribble on a bullet. Like

0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:16.120
<v Speaker 2>that's not indication of anything that's legitimately concerning frankly.

0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's indication again that this guy was very online

0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:20.520
<v Speaker 1>in the gamer right, yea, right.

0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:21.760
<v Speaker 3>But that's it.

0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:27.040
<v Speaker 2>So it's not just people like Walsh who are casting

0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.800
<v Speaker 2>doubt on the authenticity of these messages. Plenty of liberals

0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:34.200
<v Speaker 2>and people on the left have taken to suspecting that

0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.480
<v Speaker 2>these could have been written by an quote unquote FBI

0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:42.760
<v Speaker 2>agent or law enforcement as fake evidence to frame the shooter.

0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:48.560
<v Speaker 2>And people have pointed towards some weird verbiage like calling

0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:53.440
<v Speaker 2>his dad his old man and referring to quote unquote

0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:58.360
<v Speaker 2>like law enforcement type language like interrogate And Yeah, to me,

0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.960
<v Speaker 2>this is not very confusing. He talks like this because

0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.120
<v Speaker 2>he's raised Mormon and plays a lot of tactical video

0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:09.520
<v Speaker 2>games thousands of hours I have. I have a Steam profile, huge,

0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.720
<v Speaker 2>huge gamer. And he might talk a little odd because

0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.920
<v Speaker 2>he just did a fucking crazy thing.

0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:16.800
<v Speaker 3>I don't even think it's that odd.

0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:21.000
<v Speaker 1>It's nice people call someone they're in love with, my love.

0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:22.920
<v Speaker 1>That's a thing that happens in the world.

0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:24.320
<v Speaker 3>Like, that's not like a.

0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:26.800
<v Speaker 2>Very normal what are we doing here?

0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.959
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, why are we questioning this part of the story?

0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:31.680
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:33.840
<v Speaker 2>But and again, like these texts were handed over to

0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:38.720
<v Speaker 2>local police by Robinson's roommate. Why fake evidence that would

0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:42.079
<v Speaker 2>jeopardize the case when the police already have a lot

0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:46.959
<v Speaker 2>of other evidence DNA ballistic evidence, the friend group discord

0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.920
<v Speaker 2>chat where he also admitted to the crime right before

0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:53.200
<v Speaker 2>he turned himself in. Like, these textlogs don't even like

0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.960
<v Speaker 2>make him out to be a crazy leftist. He talks

0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.600
<v Speaker 2>like very vaguely about Kirk, like spreading hatred.

0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he says nothing about politics. And again, as we'll

0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:06.560
<v Speaker 1>talk about because there's some evidence here suggesting that both

0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:11.640
<v Speaker 1>Tyler and their roommate, like their politics were mixed from

0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:13.000
<v Speaker 1>what little we can glean.

0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.280
<v Speaker 2>About them, right, or a very minor part of their

0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.439
<v Speaker 2>lives in a sense, like yeah.

0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:19.920
<v Speaker 1>They're not talking about redistribution of wealth, they're not talking

0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:21.320
<v Speaker 1>about overthrowing the government.

0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, they're not talking about politics in that way.

0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:25.560
<v Speaker 2>This seems more like personal to him.

0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.320
<v Speaker 1>Yes, he's in love with a transperson and he didn't

0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:30.200
<v Speaker 1>like what Charlie Kirk said about trans people.

0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and like if the government's going to fake messages,

0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.360
<v Speaker 2>why would they do so in a way that exonerates

0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.440
<v Speaker 2>the trans roommate the real ideological target here.

0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:41.960
<v Speaker 1>Especially look at what the government is doing right now.

0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Right they're going after quote unquote Antiva, They're going after

0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.000
<v Speaker 1>the Open Society Foundation, George Soros, all of these left

0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:51.840
<v Speaker 1>wing NGOs. If they were faking this, would he not

0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:55.920
<v Speaker 1>have referenced one of those organizations? Would there not be

0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.200
<v Speaker 1>a fucking black and red flag somewhere in there?

0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.560
<v Speaker 4>It would be so easy. If you're going to implicate someone,

0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:04.520
<v Speaker 4>you could implicate it in text messages really easily, Like

0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.560
<v Speaker 4>it's ridiculous to suggest that, yeah, the state did this.

0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, why would you fake that?

0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:11.840
<v Speaker 3>Why would you fake it that way?

0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Baffling, incomprehensible. These texts are not load bearing to this case.

0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:19.080
<v Speaker 2>Plenty of other there's plenty of other evidence. And this

0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.840
<v Speaker 2>isn't the same thing as like cops planting evidence or

0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.360
<v Speaker 2>like a district attorney making subjective claims about intent, like

0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.720
<v Speaker 2>you don't need to overestimate state intelligence here.

0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.520
<v Speaker 1>No, we don't even need her what we have. There

0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.480
<v Speaker 1>was no need for them to have done anything at all,

0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.640
<v Speaker 1>because Robinson specifically notes that as soon as pictures of

0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.600
<v Speaker 1>the rifle were posted online by police, his dad fucking

0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.880
<v Speaker 1>Costs family knew because it is a unique gun Yeah,

0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:46.360
<v Speaker 1>it is.

0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:46.440
<v Speaker 3>It is.

0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.960
<v Speaker 1>It is an antique mouser that was sportized and rebarreled,

0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:55.320
<v Speaker 1>presumably personally by his grandfather. Both his grandpa and his

0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.480
<v Speaker 1>dad seem to have recognized it immediately. There was no

0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.720
<v Speaker 1>getting away with it once the rifle was found.

0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.600
<v Speaker 2>This is totally different from like the MS thirteen tattoo thing,

0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:09.920
<v Speaker 2>where the trumpetministration argued for an interpretation of tattoos and

0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:14.080
<v Speaker 2>then printed out a picture with like very clearly photoshopped

0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:16.360
<v Speaker 2>letters to draw a parallel between what they think the

0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.600
<v Speaker 2>tattoos meant and with their interpretation of it as letters

0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.800
<v Speaker 2>and numbers, which trump in all of his genius, mistook

0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.720
<v Speaker 2>for being actual tattoos. And then they just ran with

0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:27.840
<v Speaker 2>it because no one has the capacity to tell the

0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:32.600
<v Speaker 2>president you're wrong. This is completely different than faking all

0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:36.760
<v Speaker 2>these text messages. There's metadata, there's cell phone records, it's

0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:40.320
<v Speaker 2>probably still on the roommate's own phone. Like physical a

0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:44.520
<v Speaker 2>physical evidence, and like subjectively saying that you don't know

0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:48.040
<v Speaker 2>any gen z that talks like this, that's not valid evidence.

0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:50.720
<v Speaker 2>Twenty two year olds know how to use punctuation.

0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, let me tell you of someone who crades hundreds

0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:57.240
<v Speaker 4>of papers every year from people who are largely but

0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.800
<v Speaker 4>not all, between eighteen and twenty five. Yeah, young people

0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.320
<v Speaker 4>can use punctuation. This is not like some kind of

0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.760
<v Speaker 4>forensic fucking literary analysis required.

0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:11.760
<v Speaker 2>And the information obtained in these chat logs and through

0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.800
<v Speaker 2>interviews with his parents match reporting by Ken Klippenstein, who

0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:19.120
<v Speaker 2>got leaked messages from the shooter on Discord, very very similar.

0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Like lots of libs and people on the left are

0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:24.600
<v Speaker 2>saying this is fake because they wanted the shooter to

0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:28.520
<v Speaker 2>be conservative and they think that these texts damage the

0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:30.520
<v Speaker 2>narrative that they have chosen. I think that's why we're

0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.280
<v Speaker 2>seeing people react so strongly to this. It's not about

0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.800
<v Speaker 2>actually evaluating the evidence on like a base level, right,

0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.320
<v Speaker 2>Like this guy grew up in a conservative Mormon family.

0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.880
<v Speaker 2>His dad's pretty mega Robinson figured out he was bisexual

0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:44.400
<v Speaker 2>and started to move a little bit to the left

0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.720
<v Speaker 2>on like gender and sexuality issues. And even like a

0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.199
<v Speaker 2>lot of gen Z straight guys kind of have this

0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.480
<v Speaker 2>political profile, right, they're like pro gun, but their life

0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.960
<v Speaker 2>revolves around like gaming Discord and read it more than

0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:57.600
<v Speaker 2>like the political and.

0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:02.399
<v Speaker 1>They're probably often pro capitalist, just not bigoted against queer people. Yea,

0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:06.719
<v Speaker 1>because that's not as common anymore. These aren't political partisans.

0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:10.280
<v Speaker 2>They're not even on our slash bread tube, Like, yeah,

0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:14.000
<v Speaker 2>that's that's not what's happening. He played, he played furry

0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:17.480
<v Speaker 2>sex games on Steam when he was younger. One of

0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.720
<v Speaker 2>his Steam names was Donald Trump because yeah, he's twenty

0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:21.359
<v Speaker 2>two years old. Trump was an Augury when he was

0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:22.440
<v Speaker 2>like thirteen or whatever.

0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.560
<v Speaker 4>Like, god, yeah, it's crazy.

0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:28.040
<v Speaker 3>We fucked the kids up so bad.

0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:31.199
<v Speaker 2>It's it's a largely it's largely a political and like

0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:36.479
<v Speaker 2>this what he did is is existential violence manifesting a

0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.120
<v Speaker 2>political action from someone who isn't otherwise overtly political, right,

0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:43.680
<v Speaker 2>because shooting Charlie Kirk incredibly political action, even if that's

0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:47.000
<v Speaker 2>not the way that that the shooter maybe conceived it.

0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, like this person happened, So it happened across a

0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.600
<v Speaker 4>queer person who they are very fond of. Right, they

0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.679
<v Speaker 4>have queer people in their lives. That is not indicative

0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.680
<v Speaker 4>of any politics other than they have a queer person

0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:00.040
<v Speaker 4>in their.

0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.480
<v Speaker 3>If this person stand the Soviet Union, we would fucking

0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:04.320
<v Speaker 3>know about.

0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:08.360
<v Speaker 2>It because they would be running with that.

0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:11.280
<v Speaker 3>Used a mos in.

0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:11.840
<v Speaker 5>For one thing.

0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:16.640
<v Speaker 1>So they would have missed a little bit of Moses

0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.480
<v Speaker 1>slander for you today to break up the horrors. Speaking

0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:24.200
<v Speaker 1>of crackdowns, crack down on your wallet by buying these.

0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:26.119
<v Speaker 2>Products and services.

0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:27.600
<v Speaker 4>Beautiful, lovely.

0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:39.880
<v Speaker 3>And we're back.

0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:46.959
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, First Amendment crackdown. Massive rhetoric coming out of Stephen

0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.960
<v Speaker 1>Miller and from Pam Bondi and basically every mouthpiece of

0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:55.639
<v Speaker 1>the administration about going after the left, about dismantling particularly

0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:59.240
<v Speaker 1>organizations like the Open Sciety Foundation, going after George Soros

0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:04.360
<v Speaker 1>and his son. There's talk about prosecuting people criminally and

0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.280
<v Speaker 1>using the death penalty, even on folks who are quote

0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.320
<v Speaker 1>unquote funding terrorism, a term which has been so broadly

0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:15.440
<v Speaker 1>described by mouthpieces of the administration as to include potentially

0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:16.800
<v Speaker 1>just about anybody.

0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:22.840
<v Speaker 2>This could be like bail funds, environmental NGOs, legal support NGOs,

0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:25.159
<v Speaker 2>like It's it's really unclear at the exact form that

0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:27.600
<v Speaker 2>this is going to take, but this is stuff that

0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.520
<v Speaker 2>the administration has pined about doing for a while.

0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's unclear. You know, it's one of the

0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:35.679
<v Speaker 1>big pieces of news that's happened. Within twenty four hours

0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:38.480
<v Speaker 1>of us recording this episode, which we recorded on Thursday,

0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:43.560
<v Speaker 1>the eighteenth is that Trump has designated Antifa a domestic

0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:44.679
<v Speaker 1>terrorist organization.

0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:46.159
<v Speaker 3>Of that's not he's said that.

0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:48.879
<v Speaker 1>What I'm saying is he said that, he said up

0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.159
<v Speaker 1>to me, those words that he has said.

0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.119
<v Speaker 2>Words that he has said before, including in twenty twenty.

0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:56.360
<v Speaker 3>For the letter of the law.

0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.720
<v Speaker 1>For one thing, there's a wild difference between what you

0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:03.600
<v Speaker 1>could do legally to an international foreign terrorist organization, yeah,

0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:05.200
<v Speaker 1>and in domestic terrorist organization.

0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:05.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:09.680
<v Speaker 1>Because of the First Amendment, you can't just declare legally

0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:12.840
<v Speaker 1>in terms of what is written law, the president can't

0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:14.760
<v Speaker 1>just declare a group of people to be a domestic

0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:18.400
<v Speaker 1>terrorist organization. It's usually an enhancement charge, yes, and then

0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.880
<v Speaker 1>just go after people who have spoken out or donated

0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:24.919
<v Speaker 1>money to legal charities that are randomly declared to be

0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:27.359
<v Speaker 1>in support of that that's not legal, which doesn't mean

0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:29.680
<v Speaker 1>it what happened. Let me be really clear. Yeah, yeah,

0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:31.280
<v Speaker 1>but that's not what the law is about.

0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:33.160
<v Speaker 2>And they've tried to do that in Atlanta was Top

0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:35.640
<v Speaker 2>Crop City and the Lena Solidarity Fund and going after

0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:38.560
<v Speaker 2>the Bail Fund and people who had donated money to

0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.439
<v Speaker 2>like the Forest Defense Fund, right, and this Trump is

0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:44.360
<v Speaker 2>similarly actually to Atlanta Is also talked about using Rico

0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.879
<v Speaker 2>charges to get people in trouble who are funding these

0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:53.640
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote domestic terror organizations, and on Yeah, September seventeenth,

0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Trump Truth, I am pleased to inform our many USA

0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:02.960
<v Speaker 2>patriots that I'm designating Antife, a sick, dangerous radical left disaster,

0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:06.160
<v Speaker 2>as a major terrorist organization. I will also be strongly

0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:09.800
<v Speaker 2>recommending that those funding Antifa be thoroughly investigated in accordance

0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.320
<v Speaker 2>with the highest legal standards and practices. Thank you for

0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:14.480
<v Speaker 2>your attention to this matter.

0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:17.479
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean, for a use the word major right,

0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:22.119
<v Speaker 4>which doesn't like there's a domestic terrorism is a concept

0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:26.000
<v Speaker 4>that's nebulous FTO, Foreign terrorist organization is an extremely clear

0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:30.040
<v Speaker 4>legal definition. He didn't use either of those. This is yeah,

0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:33.399
<v Speaker 4>this is a thing that like Ted Cruz, and I

0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:35.760
<v Speaker 4>think he enjoyed it. I'm sure there are other people involved.

0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:39.040
<v Speaker 4>But Ted Cruz in before twenty twenty twenty nineteen, tried

0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:42.280
<v Speaker 4>to introduce a resolution in the Senate condemning Antifa like

0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:43.880
<v Speaker 4>this has been a thing.

0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:48.480
<v Speaker 2>Marjor Taylor Green introduced legislation which went nowhere, or talked aboutization.

0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:50.479
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know if she actually introduced it like

0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:54.320
<v Speaker 2>this year about designating Antifa terrorist organization. It's been It's

0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:56.679
<v Speaker 2>been something like Andy know has been advocating for for years.

0:22:56.800 --> 0:22:59.359
<v Speaker 1>It's a really important point that they have attempted and

0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:02.919
<v Speaker 1>failed to do this numerous times because the law doesn't

0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:06.560
<v Speaker 1>let them. And this is something that if you have

0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:11.000
<v Speaker 1>been in the riot reporting on public shootings business as

0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:13.800
<v Speaker 1>long as I have been, christ one thing I can

0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:16.399
<v Speaker 1>tell you is that in the wake of something like this,

0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:17.879
<v Speaker 1>it was the same with christ Church and the immediate

0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:20.800
<v Speaker 1>wake of christ Church, there was this really shocking moment

0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:23.320
<v Speaker 1>where a bunch of conservative I talked to these people

0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:27.280
<v Speaker 1>because I published the art the defining article on that shooting. Yeah,

0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.000
<v Speaker 1>a shitload of conservative organizations came out and said, you

0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:33.520
<v Speaker 1>know what, maybe we've been wrong about demonizing Muslim immigrants.

0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:35.680
<v Speaker 1>Maybe like that was really fucked up and we should

0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:39.000
<v Speaker 1>like those people were talking about that, people who you

0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:42.040
<v Speaker 1>would not expect that now, they didn't keep talking that way.

0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:44.639
<v Speaker 1>They got a pretty quick But what you have in

0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:48.600
<v Speaker 1>a moment like this is there's a limited period of

0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:53.320
<v Speaker 1>time where people's shock and horror and surprise at what

0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:59.600
<v Speaker 1>has happened creates spaces of possibility for folks who have

0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:02.560
<v Speaker 1>an agenda and you have a clear plan for what

0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:08.480
<v Speaker 1>to push, to push the overton envelope in their direction. Right,

0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:11.680
<v Speaker 1>this is not a period of time that lasts for ever.

0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:17.920
<v Speaker 1>And the folks who are largely orchestrating the conservative response

0:24:18.000 --> 0:24:21.159
<v Speaker 1>to Charlie Kirk's murder are aware of this, and they

0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:23.640
<v Speaker 1>are making the best use of this period of time

0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:26.600
<v Speaker 1>that they can get. Now, that doesn't mean the fact

0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:29.159
<v Speaker 1>that this is a limited period of time doesn't mean

0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:32.080
<v Speaker 1>there aren't long term consequences, doesn't mean that they can't

0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:35.879
<v Speaker 1>make significant progress on their plan to stifle free speech.

0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:38.480
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't mean we're not in massive danger. Because we

0:24:38.560 --> 0:24:41.639
<v Speaker 1>are in danger, folks. I'm not telling you we're not.

0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:47.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm telling you these spaces of possibility don't last for ever,

0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:49.840
<v Speaker 1>in part because the public moves on, and in part

0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:53.080
<v Speaker 1>because there is always a backlash to the backlash, and

0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:54.400
<v Speaker 1>you're seeing pieces of that already.

0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:55.840
<v Speaker 2>They are seeing pieces of that.

0:24:56.680 --> 0:25:00.840
<v Speaker 1>Carl Rove of all motherfucking people wrote it article about

0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:05.600
<v Speaker 1>how the administration is unfairly blaming liberals and leftists for

0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:08.880
<v Speaker 1>the actions of an individual shooter. Tucker Carlson came out

0:25:08.920 --> 0:25:11.080
<v Speaker 1>and it made a statement that like, if the government

0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:13.080
<v Speaker 1>is able to go after you for this, they'll come

0:25:13.119 --> 0:25:15.639
<v Speaker 1>after conservatives at some point. He's not wrong about it.

0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:17.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't credit him doing that because of a serious

0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:20.720
<v Speaker 1>moral thing. I credited him to be a relatively intelligent

0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:22.560
<v Speaker 1>guy who was like, no, no, no, if they're able

0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:25.680
<v Speaker 1>to do this to you know whatever, milktoast liberals, eventually

0:25:25.720 --> 0:25:26.439
<v Speaker 1>it will happen to me.

0:25:26.840 --> 0:25:30.280
<v Speaker 2>Right and specifically, like Pam Bondi is, the etern General

0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:32.480
<v Speaker 2>made some statements a few days ago about them going

0:25:32.520 --> 0:25:36.440
<v Speaker 2>after quote unquote hate speech, yeah, which spawned a whole

0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:39.520
<v Speaker 2>bunch of conservative commentators Steven Krawdertucker Carlson, as well as

0:25:39.840 --> 0:25:41.800
<v Speaker 2>Matt Walsh. And under no circumstances do you have to

0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:44.480
<v Speaker 2>hand up to Matt Walsh. But this prompted them to

0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:47.920
<v Speaker 2>be like, no, actually, we don't believe in hate speech

0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:51.000
<v Speaker 2>as a legitimate legal category. There should be social consequences

0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:53.399
<v Speaker 2>for people who celebrate the murder of an innocent man,

0:25:53.480 --> 0:25:57.720
<v Speaker 2>but there should not be legal consequences for hate speech. Right,

0:25:58.200 --> 0:26:00.840
<v Speaker 2>We're fine with the government helping us like docks you

0:26:01.240 --> 0:26:04.320
<v Speaker 2>and get you fired from your job, but prosecuting hate

0:26:04.320 --> 0:26:06.240
<v Speaker 2>speech as a category is something that we do not

0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:09.400
<v Speaker 2>agree with, and neither did Charlie Kirk. So there's been

0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:12.280
<v Speaker 2>like that small reaction, which then prompted Pambondi to be like, no,

0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:14.159
<v Speaker 2>when I say hate speech, what I really mean is

0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:17.440
<v Speaker 2>like threats and assignment of violence, and like, yeah, okay.

0:26:17.000 --> 0:26:20.040
<v Speaker 4>Fighting words I think is a legal term, right, Like

0:26:20.119 --> 0:26:21.160
<v Speaker 4>incitements to violence.

0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:24.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And you know, there's some stuff that's always been

0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:28.639
<v Speaker 1>illegal and never been punished. For example, when conservatives, I've

0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:31.199
<v Speaker 1>been dealing with this for years, threaten to kill and

0:26:31.320 --> 0:26:34.119
<v Speaker 1>rape activists and show up outside of their houses and

0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:36.960
<v Speaker 1>harass them. As a general rule, the police don't do anything. Yeah,

0:26:37.160 --> 0:26:39.600
<v Speaker 1>if those activists are on the left, right, even though

0:26:39.600 --> 0:26:41.760
<v Speaker 1>that crosses the boundary into fighting words, however, they have

0:26:42.040 --> 0:26:44.040
<v Speaker 1>legally could they choose not to.

0:26:44.520 --> 0:26:44.720
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:26:45.359 --> 0:26:48.000
<v Speaker 1>But if someone is out there saying in the wake

0:26:48.040 --> 0:26:51.760
<v Speaker 1>of the Charlie Kirk shooting, I want to incite people

0:26:51.800 --> 0:26:54.240
<v Speaker 1>to kill this person, that is illegal. You're not allowed

0:26:54.280 --> 0:26:57.760
<v Speaker 1>to say I want to incite people to murder this person.

0:26:58.080 --> 0:27:00.520
<v Speaker 1>That is a crime. If you're posting insane say that

0:27:00.880 --> 0:27:03.439
<v Speaker 1>you have broken the law. They won't go after a

0:27:03.480 --> 0:27:06.400
<v Speaker 1>conservative for doing that. But they'll go after you, right

0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:10.399
<v Speaker 1>like that is how things work, you know. However, we

0:27:10.480 --> 0:27:14.960
<v Speaker 1>have seen people who have been attacked for speech that

0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:17.639
<v Speaker 1>absolutely is not crossing the line into fighting words.

0:27:17.720 --> 0:27:17.880
<v Speaker 6>Right.

0:27:18.359 --> 0:27:21.120
<v Speaker 1>One of the better examples for this happened at Texas Tech.

0:27:21.160 --> 0:27:21.520
<v Speaker 3>It happened.

0:27:22.359 --> 0:27:24.040
<v Speaker 1>You've had variends of this happened at a couple of

0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:29.000
<v Speaker 1>colleges all around the country. They're specifically at Texas Tech,

0:27:29.040 --> 0:27:32.040
<v Speaker 1>which is, you know, one of Texas's kind of premier

0:27:32.440 --> 0:27:33.520
<v Speaker 1>state schools.

0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:34.720
<v Speaker 3>There was a video of.

0:27:34.720 --> 0:27:37.800
<v Speaker 1>An incident on the day that Charlie Kirk was killed,

0:27:38.200 --> 0:27:42.719
<v Speaker 1>where a student scene jumping up and down, yelling profanity

0:27:42.760 --> 0:27:45.320
<v Speaker 1>at a vigil in a free speech zone outside of

0:27:45.359 --> 0:27:49.040
<v Speaker 1>a student union building on the campus, saying y'all, Homie dead,

0:27:49.560 --> 0:27:52.439
<v Speaker 1>making fun of people who were mourning Kirk's death. At

0:27:52.480 --> 0:27:55.600
<v Speaker 1>one point, she touched a guy's hat. The video of

0:27:55.760 --> 0:27:59.280
<v Speaker 1>her went viral. Governor Greg Abbott called for her to

0:27:59.359 --> 0:28:02.760
<v Speaker 1>be arrested and expelled. She was expelled immediately. She was

0:28:02.880 --> 0:28:06.920
<v Speaker 1>arrested and charged with assaults shortly thereafter. Her family has

0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:09.399
<v Speaker 1>not made a statement. Very wisely, There's really nothing they

0:28:09.440 --> 0:28:11.080
<v Speaker 1>could say that would be great.

0:28:11.160 --> 0:28:11.840
<v Speaker 3>At this point.

0:28:12.200 --> 0:28:16.199
<v Speaker 1>There has been some pushback from student organizations in the

0:28:16.240 --> 0:28:19.840
<v Speaker 1>state because this is blatantly illegal. Calling what she did

0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:23.359
<v Speaker 1>assault is nonsense. In my opinion from watching the video,

0:28:23.840 --> 0:28:27.639
<v Speaker 1>she was at a free speech zone. Laughing y'all homely

0:28:27.720 --> 0:28:31.080
<v Speaker 1>dead when someone is killed is not fighting words. That

0:28:31.240 --> 0:28:34.520
<v Speaker 1>is not illegal. You are allowed to say stuff like

0:28:34.560 --> 0:28:37.520
<v Speaker 1>that under the letter of the law. Does this mean

0:28:37.560 --> 0:28:40.960
<v Speaker 1>this person won't get convicted of a crime. It's Texas,

0:28:41.080 --> 0:28:43.880
<v Speaker 1>and she's a black woman, she might. And this is

0:28:44.000 --> 0:28:47.800
<v Speaker 1>very chilling. This is deeply concerning, right. This is not

0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:51.160
<v Speaker 1>the only case. There's a universe, smaller university outside of

0:28:51.200 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 1>Austin where again a student was videotaped celebrating individual for

0:28:54.840 --> 0:28:57.840
<v Speaker 1>Kirk's death. That person was expelled as well. There have

0:28:57.920 --> 0:29:00.560
<v Speaker 1>been a number of teachers fired obviously, stuff like this

0:29:00.600 --> 0:29:03.160
<v Speaker 1>has been happening all over the country, right, And this

0:29:03.360 --> 0:29:06.240
<v Speaker 1>is deeply worrying. And even if even if the space

0:29:06.280 --> 0:29:09.080
<v Speaker 1>of possibility closes on these people faster than they're expecting,

0:29:09.160 --> 0:29:14.040
<v Speaker 1>if the crackdown on the Open Society Foundation doesn't happen,

0:29:14.080 --> 0:29:16.240
<v Speaker 1>if this Antifa stuff doesn't go any further than the

0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:19.320
<v Speaker 1>last time they've talked about going after Antifa, stuff like

0:29:19.400 --> 0:29:22.400
<v Speaker 1>this is going to continue to happen, and it will

0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:25.640
<v Speaker 1>only accelerate over the next couple of years, right, and

0:29:25.760 --> 0:29:27.760
<v Speaker 1>that is a massive problem.

0:29:27.960 --> 0:29:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Part of this culture shift can be seen in what

0:29:32.200 --> 0:29:35.480
<v Speaker 2>some people are probably not very smartly calling the biggest

0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:37.760
<v Speaker 2>attack on free speech they've ever seen in their life,

0:29:38.160 --> 0:29:42.800
<v Speaker 2>which is on Wednesday evening, ABC put Jimmy Kimmel's show

0:29:42.960 --> 0:29:46.600
<v Speaker 2>on hold quote unquote indefinitely, following pressure from the FCC

0:29:46.840 --> 0:29:51.000
<v Speaker 2>and affiliate stations owned by Nextstar. Before ABC's announcement next

0:29:51.040 --> 0:29:54.280
<v Speaker 2>our release statement quote, Next Stars owned and partner television

0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:57.640
<v Speaker 2>stations affiliated with the NBC Television Network will preempt Jimmy

0:29:57.720 --> 0:29:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Kimmel Live for the foreseeable future, beginning with.

0:29:59.880 --> 0:30:00.520
<v Speaker 4>To it's show.

0:30:00.560 --> 0:30:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Next to Our strongly objects to the recent comments made

0:30:02.600 --> 0:30:04.800
<v Speaker 2>by mister Kimmel concerning the killing and Charlie Kirk and

0:30:04.800 --> 0:30:07.560
<v Speaker 2>will replace the show with other programming in its ABC

0:30:07.600 --> 0:30:12.320
<v Speaker 2>affiliated markets unquote. Sinclair Broadcasting also stated it would not

0:30:12.400 --> 0:30:15.200
<v Speaker 2>air Kimmel's show and called on Kimmel to apologize to

0:30:15.240 --> 0:30:17.920
<v Speaker 2>the Kirk family and donates to the Kirk family as

0:30:17.960 --> 0:30:24.680
<v Speaker 2>well as TPUSA. Earlier that Wednesday, FCC Chairman Brendan Carr

0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:29.200
<v Speaker 2>advocated on the conservative podcaster Benny Johnson's show. Quote, it's

0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:31.760
<v Speaker 2>really sort of past time that a lot of these

0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:35.320
<v Speaker 2>licensed broadcasters themselves push back on Comcast Disney and say,

0:30:35.520 --> 0:30:37.560
<v Speaker 2>we are not going to run Kimmel anymore until you

0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:40.440
<v Speaker 2>straighten this out, and we, the licensed broadcaster, are running

0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:44.120
<v Speaker 2>the possibility of fines or license revocation from the SEC

0:30:44.160 --> 0:30:46.600
<v Speaker 2>if we continue to run content that ends up being

0:30:46.880 --> 0:30:51.880
<v Speaker 2>a pattern of news distortion unquote. Carr then made vague

0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:55.840
<v Speaker 2>threats towards like direct FCC involvement. Quote, we can do

0:30:55.840 --> 0:30:58.800
<v Speaker 2>this easy way or the hard way. These companies can

0:30:58.840 --> 0:31:01.440
<v Speaker 2>find ways to change con it can take action frankly

0:31:01.920 --> 0:31:04.800
<v Speaker 2>on Kimmel, or there's going to be additional work for

0:31:04.840 --> 0:31:08.360
<v Speaker 2>the FCC ahead on quote. The FCC controls broadcast licenses

0:31:08.360 --> 0:31:11.400
<v Speaker 2>for local TV channels, and next Star is planning a

0:31:11.440 --> 0:31:15.240
<v Speaker 2>merger with Tegna, which requires SEC approval. And this is

0:31:15.280 --> 0:31:18.360
<v Speaker 2>obviously a coerced attack on free speech.

0:31:18.520 --> 0:31:22.680
<v Speaker 1>And we've seen a lot of people shows and whatnot

0:31:22.720 --> 0:31:26.240
<v Speaker 1>getting polled and people speaking out getting in trouble because

0:31:26.240 --> 0:31:28.680
<v Speaker 1>they're companies. They're trying to do a merger. Right, that's

0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:29.160
<v Speaker 1>not new.

0:31:29.680 --> 0:31:32.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes, this has happened with ABC already, this happened with

0:31:32.480 --> 0:31:36.360
<v Speaker 2>a CBS and paramount. I think some people, including people

0:31:36.360 --> 0:31:39.640
<v Speaker 2>on the right, are misunderstanding some of the circumstances of

0:31:39.680 --> 0:31:42.680
<v Speaker 2>the firing or the being put on hold, as well

0:31:42.720 --> 0:31:45.520
<v Speaker 2>as what like Kimmel said, Like kim wasn't joking about

0:31:45.600 --> 0:31:50.560
<v Speaker 2>or celebrating Kirk's death. What he did do is possibly

0:31:50.560 --> 0:31:54.880
<v Speaker 2>like falsely insinuate that the shooter was Mega when evidence

0:31:54.880 --> 0:31:58.120
<v Speaker 2>at the time pointed otherwise. Kimmell said, quote, we hit

0:31:58.200 --> 0:32:00.480
<v Speaker 2>some new lows over the weekend with the Maga gang

0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:03.840
<v Speaker 2>desperately trying to characterize the kid who murdered Charlie Kirk

0:32:03.840 --> 0:32:06.880
<v Speaker 2>as anything other than one of them and doing everything

0:32:06.920 --> 0:32:08.560
<v Speaker 2>they can to score political points from it.

0:32:08.680 --> 0:32:09.200
<v Speaker 4>Unquote.

0:32:09.520 --> 0:32:11.000
<v Speaker 2>He then went on to tell a joke about how

0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:13.640
<v Speaker 2>Trump did not seem very sad in the wake of

0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:18.240
<v Speaker 2>Charliekirk's death, comparing the death to a goldfish in Trump's mind.

0:32:18.360 --> 0:32:20.800
<v Speaker 2>That was the way the joke was framed. Yeah, so

0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:24.520
<v Speaker 2>that's what Kimmel actually said. You can interpret that either way.

0:32:24.560 --> 0:32:28.360
<v Speaker 2>Whether he's just saying that megas are desperately trying to

0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:31.120
<v Speaker 2>make it look like he's not one of them, and

0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:33.840
<v Speaker 2>scoring political points. Or you can interpret it as Kimmel

0:32:34.120 --> 0:32:37.280
<v Speaker 2>kind of insinuating that the shooter probably is mega. I

0:32:37.480 --> 0:32:40.520
<v Speaker 2>don't know Kimmel's mind. I'm not sure what he exactly

0:32:40.600 --> 0:32:44.200
<v Speaker 2>meant by that. But the Rolling Stone reported that sources

0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:47.360
<v Speaker 2>told them the quote. Senior executives at ABC, its owner,

0:32:47.400 --> 0:32:50.760
<v Speaker 2>Disney and affiliates convened emergency meetings to figure out how

0:32:50.760 --> 0:32:53.640
<v Speaker 2>to minimize the damage. Multiple execs felt Kimmel had not

0:32:53.680 --> 0:32:56.680
<v Speaker 2>actually said anything over the line, but the threat of

0:32:56.800 --> 0:33:03.600
<v Speaker 2>Trump administration retaliation loomed. Yeah, and this is again, this

0:33:03.640 --> 0:33:07.200
<v Speaker 2>is chilling, absolutely chilling speech. The things he said, we're

0:33:07.200 --> 0:33:09.200
<v Speaker 2>not in line with the best available evidence at the

0:33:09.200 --> 0:33:11.440
<v Speaker 2>time that he said them. But they weren't hate speech,

0:33:11.720 --> 0:33:14.280
<v Speaker 2>they were not incitement to violence. There was nothing a

0:33:14.400 --> 0:33:17.800
<v Speaker 2>league know about them. And again you had a fucking

0:33:18.120 --> 0:33:22.200
<v Speaker 2>right wing figure on television urging for homeless people to

0:33:22.280 --> 0:33:28.280
<v Speaker 2>be executed, the involuntary lethal ejection to solve the homeless crisis. Quote,

0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:30.560
<v Speaker 2>just kill them. He's not getting fired.

0:33:30.760 --> 0:33:33.320
<v Speaker 1>No, he had to make a half assed apology, but

0:33:33.400 --> 0:33:33.800
<v Speaker 1>that's it.

0:33:34.080 --> 0:33:36.239
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I can had to pretend to be sorry if

0:33:36.240 --> 0:33:38.440
<v Speaker 5>I had a nickel for every time someone on Fox

0:33:38.520 --> 0:33:42.400
<v Speaker 5>News said that like any mass shooter at all was

0:33:42.440 --> 0:33:45.200
<v Speaker 5>linked to a trans person, Like none of my trans

0:33:45.200 --> 0:33:48.440
<v Speaker 5>friends would ever be homeless. Again, Like they say this

0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:51.520
<v Speaker 5>shit all the time and nothing happens, even though it

0:33:51.600 --> 0:33:55.160
<v Speaker 5>is I mean literally just it is straight up tofammatory yep.

0:33:55.560 --> 0:33:58.120
<v Speaker 5>And they say that shit constantly and nothing happens. And

0:33:58.160 --> 0:34:03.800
<v Speaker 5>this is just a the pure I mean example of

0:34:04.320 --> 0:34:07.400
<v Speaker 5>just the latant political suppression of speech. And also this

0:34:07.480 --> 0:34:10.160
<v Speaker 5>sort of like we talked about this with the mergers,

0:34:10.200 --> 0:34:14.040
<v Speaker 5>is the structural problem with the way that like the

0:34:14.080 --> 0:34:16.520
<v Speaker 5>American quote unquote free press is supposed to be structured,

0:34:16.520 --> 0:34:20.680
<v Speaker 5>which is that they're all for profit companies and because

0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:22.560
<v Speaker 5>of that, all you need to do is just buy

0:34:22.640 --> 0:34:25.359
<v Speaker 5>out or threaten their profit enough and they'll just fall

0:34:25.400 --> 0:34:28.040
<v Speaker 5>on line. And that's what we've been watching with news

0:34:28.080 --> 0:34:30.680
<v Speaker 5>outlet after news outlets, news outlet like firing anyone who

0:34:30.719 --> 0:34:31.960
<v Speaker 5>said anything being about Kirk.

0:34:32.440 --> 0:34:32.680
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

0:34:33.719 --> 0:34:37.600
<v Speaker 2>I think with that that concludes our Charlie Kirk assassination

0:34:37.680 --> 0:34:41.680
<v Speaker 2>aftermath discussion for now, But there is in fact other

0:34:41.800 --> 0:34:46.560
<v Speaker 2>news this week happening. James, do you have stuff, Yeah,

0:34:46.640 --> 0:34:49.319
<v Speaker 2>un Fortunately, I'm like, I'm like bracing myself because I

0:34:49.360 --> 0:34:51.359
<v Speaker 2>know that James's news is never that good either.

0:34:51.640 --> 0:34:52.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:34:52.719 --> 0:34:54.719
<v Speaker 3>So the good news these days.

0:34:55.239 --> 0:34:59.440
<v Speaker 2>Really the passport thing was killed, right, the Mark Ruvio.

0:34:59.640 --> 0:35:01.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's some good news.

0:35:01.360 --> 0:35:04.040
<v Speaker 1>Actually, there was a Senate bill, a writer on a

0:35:04.040 --> 0:35:06.760
<v Speaker 1>bill that was introduced that would have given Marco Rubio

0:35:07.400 --> 0:35:12.160
<v Speaker 1>the power to revoke passports for citizens for effectively political

0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:14.919
<v Speaker 1>speech and the guise of speech protecting you know, quote

0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:19.560
<v Speaker 1>unquote terrorists. That failed, like that was pulled by the sponsor,

0:35:20.160 --> 0:35:22.920
<v Speaker 1>which is good. There was a backlash to it, and

0:35:23.040 --> 0:35:30.880
<v Speaker 1>again when there's backlashes, that's that's good. Yeah yeah, yeah.

0:35:30.239 --> 0:35:32.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it's it's so annoying to have to

0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:35.319
<v Speaker 2>like we all know that like pointing out the hypocrisy

0:35:35.760 --> 0:35:39.239
<v Speaker 2>doesn't work as like a real strategy. But like there's

0:35:39.280 --> 0:35:42.960
<v Speaker 2>if there's a way besides that to like actually channel

0:35:43.280 --> 0:35:46.520
<v Speaker 2>resistance to these authoritarian and like speech chilling measures besides

0:35:46.600 --> 0:35:49.480
<v Speaker 2>just smugly going like haha, the Party of free speech

0:35:49.520 --> 0:35:53.759
<v Speaker 2>strikes again, which I understand how that's emotionally compelling. Well,

0:35:54.280 --> 0:35:56.319
<v Speaker 2>it's not going to stop them from taking away your

0:35:56.360 --> 0:36:00.319
<v Speaker 2>free speech. No, yeah, speaking of free speech, here's some

0:36:00.960 --> 0:36:01.600
<v Speaker 2>free ads.

0:36:02.040 --> 0:36:16.360
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we are back I don't worry, folks. It is

0:36:16.480 --> 0:36:20.200
<v Speaker 4>all downhill from here. I'm afraid because things have not

0:36:20.400 --> 0:36:24.600
<v Speaker 4>been good outside of the coverage and repercussions of the

0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:27.799
<v Speaker 4>Charlie Kirk shooting. And to start with, I want us

0:36:27.840 --> 0:36:30.160
<v Speaker 4>to talk about Ghana. This is one of those stories

0:36:30.200 --> 0:36:33.440
<v Speaker 4>that unfortunately has been kind of eclipsed this week, but

0:36:33.480 --> 0:36:35.239
<v Speaker 4>it shouldn't be, so we're going to talk about it. So,

0:36:35.280 --> 0:36:38.600
<v Speaker 4>the United States has begun using Ghana as a pass

0:36:38.719 --> 0:36:42.400
<v Speaker 4>through to send people back to other countries in West Africa.

0:36:43.040 --> 0:36:47.279
<v Speaker 4>In international law, when somebody has protection from being sent

0:36:47.400 --> 0:36:50.960
<v Speaker 4>to a place and you send them back via another place,

0:36:51.239 --> 0:36:52.839
<v Speaker 4>that is called chain refoulment.

0:36:53.200 --> 0:36:53.359
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:36:53.520 --> 0:36:55.319
<v Speaker 4>One could probably also pronounce that it's a bit where

0:36:55.320 --> 0:36:58.120
<v Speaker 4>a French word, but I have decided not to. In

0:36:58.160 --> 0:37:00.719
<v Speaker 4>this instance, I'm sending people to Ghana when their home

0:37:00.760 --> 0:37:03.279
<v Speaker 4>countries has been deemed to be too dangerous by a

0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:07.319
<v Speaker 4>United States court, or they are unable to send them

0:37:07.320 --> 0:37:10.320
<v Speaker 4>back to that country for some other reason. Right, people

0:37:10.360 --> 0:37:13.040
<v Speaker 4>in this part of the world don't need visas to travel,

0:37:13.200 --> 0:37:17.239
<v Speaker 4>so they can send them to neighboring countries without requiring

0:37:17.400 --> 0:37:20.200
<v Speaker 4>Like that, the Ghana can just bust them back, right,

0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:24.040
<v Speaker 4>it doesn't require a great deal of paperwork. So a

0:37:24.200 --> 0:37:27.200
<v Speaker 4>court has ordered the United States that there was an

0:37:27.239 --> 0:37:31.080
<v Speaker 4>attempt right to secure protections for these people via them

0:37:31.120 --> 0:37:34.399
<v Speaker 4>into a temporary restraining order to prevent them either being

0:37:34.440 --> 0:37:36.480
<v Speaker 4>sent away. Some of them were in Ghana at the

0:37:36.520 --> 0:37:38.440
<v Speaker 4>time the case was filed, right, so to prevent them

0:37:38.440 --> 0:37:41.680
<v Speaker 4>being sent from Ghana to places where they may face

0:37:41.760 --> 0:37:45.080
<v Speaker 4>as we're about to hear, torture, death, pretty much the

0:37:45.120 --> 0:37:48.480
<v Speaker 4>worst ship that can happen to people. So the court

0:37:48.520 --> 0:37:51.160
<v Speaker 4>did order the United States to produce a document which

0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:54.239
<v Speaker 4>details the exact nature of its agreement with Ghana. At

0:37:54.280 --> 0:37:57.319
<v Speaker 4>the time I'm writing, the United States has not produced that.

0:37:57.960 --> 0:38:01.520
<v Speaker 4>Gharanean sources have repeatedly suggest did that one exists. Right

0:38:01.719 --> 0:38:07.520
<v Speaker 4>in Ghanan government press conferences and internal Ghanan news reporting,

0:38:08.360 --> 0:38:14.120
<v Speaker 4>the case was bought by both Gambia and Nigerian citizens, right,

0:38:14.120 --> 0:38:16.120
<v Speaker 4>so people who don't want to be returned to those

0:38:16.160 --> 0:38:20.440
<v Speaker 4>countries and their attempt to obtain a restraining order. In

0:38:20.480 --> 0:38:23.040
<v Speaker 4>one instance, one of the people who bought the case

0:38:23.360 --> 0:38:26.400
<v Speaker 4>fled after torture by the police and military and was

0:38:26.440 --> 0:38:29.680
<v Speaker 4>explicitly told that if he came back they would kill

0:38:29.760 --> 0:38:32.080
<v Speaker 4>him and what the US is doing here is using

0:38:32.120 --> 0:38:34.360
<v Speaker 4>Ghana as a pass through to send him back.

0:38:34.480 --> 0:38:34.640
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:38:35.400 --> 0:38:38.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, some of them also detailed in the case they're

0:38:38.120 --> 0:38:41.080
<v Speaker 4>transport They said they were in straight jackets for sixteen

0:38:41.200 --> 0:38:45.040
<v Speaker 4>hours on the flight the US. Right, the government, the

0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:47.960
<v Speaker 4>United States government in this instance has once again claimed

0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:50.200
<v Speaker 4>that these people are out of its hands and it

0:38:50.280 --> 0:38:53.399
<v Speaker 4>has no way of stopping the government of Ghana from

0:38:53.520 --> 0:38:55.520
<v Speaker 4>sending them back to these other countries. Right. This is

0:38:55.560 --> 0:38:58.440
<v Speaker 4>an argument that is attempted to make in several other instances,

0:38:59.000 --> 0:39:01.000
<v Speaker 4>and I do just want to fly that like this

0:39:01.280 --> 0:39:05.719
<v Speaker 4>use of third party countries for deportation has much increased

0:39:06.320 --> 0:39:09.319
<v Speaker 4>under the Trump administration, that it was the Biden administration

0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:14.640
<v Speaker 4>who begun funding Panamanian deportations right way before Donald Trump

0:39:14.719 --> 0:39:18.279
<v Speaker 4>was even elected, and I have documented that extensively in

0:39:18.280 --> 0:39:22.480
<v Speaker 4>my series on the Darien Gap. The court determined in

0:39:22.520 --> 0:39:25.720
<v Speaker 4>this case that it didn't have the jurisdiction to grant

0:39:25.719 --> 0:39:28.279
<v Speaker 4>the plaintiff's relief right, so that means that they're not

0:39:28.360 --> 0:39:30.600
<v Speaker 4>able to get a restraining order. One of the people

0:39:30.600 --> 0:39:32.880
<v Speaker 4>had actually already been returned to the place where they

0:39:32.920 --> 0:39:36.600
<v Speaker 4>had a convention against torture, protection from and was in

0:39:36.680 --> 0:39:39.040
<v Speaker 4>hiding at the time. At the court case right, the

0:39:39.120 --> 0:39:41.839
<v Speaker 4>judge said that the government's actions were part of a

0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:46.080
<v Speaker 4>quoting here pattern and widespread effort to evade the government's

0:39:46.160 --> 0:39:50.799
<v Speaker 4>legal obligations by doing indirectly what it cannot do directly.

0:39:51.200 --> 0:39:53.560
<v Speaker 4>We are recording this on the eighteenth of September. It's

0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:57.800
<v Speaker 4>a Thursday, and about fifteen minutes ago, another United States

0:39:57.800 --> 0:40:02.600
<v Speaker 4>flight just landed in Ghana. Practice of BSHB ongoing. Secondly,

0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:05.920
<v Speaker 4>what I want to talk about is sadly another shooting,

0:40:06.360 --> 0:40:11.799
<v Speaker 4>the killing of Silverio Viegas Gonzales in Chicago. Diegos. Gonzales

0:40:11.840 --> 0:40:14.720
<v Speaker 4>was a thirty eight year old father, a Mexican national,

0:40:15.400 --> 0:40:19.439
<v Speaker 4>and he was shot by either one or two ICE

0:40:19.480 --> 0:40:23.000
<v Speaker 4>agents while driving away from them. An ICE statement claimed

0:40:23.000 --> 0:40:25.359
<v Speaker 4>that he drove towards them and ended up dragging an

0:40:25.360 --> 0:40:29.040
<v Speaker 4>agent a significant distance. Surveillance camera footage at the scene

0:40:29.080 --> 0:40:33.200
<v Speaker 4>shows one agent talking to Vegas Gonzales in his vehicle.

0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:37.120
<v Speaker 4>We then see the vehicle reverse away from them and

0:40:37.200 --> 0:40:40.360
<v Speaker 4>then move around them to the left when it sees

0:40:40.640 --> 0:40:44.440
<v Speaker 4>a gap in traffic. The ICE agents have placed their vehicle,

0:40:44.440 --> 0:40:47.279
<v Speaker 4>which is an SUV, in front of his vehicle. Sort

0:40:47.280 --> 0:40:49.719
<v Speaker 4>of cramping it into the curve right, so he has

0:40:49.800 --> 0:40:52.440
<v Speaker 4>to reverse backwards and then move forward and to the

0:40:52.520 --> 0:40:55.719
<v Speaker 4>left in order to try and drive away, which is

0:40:55.760 --> 0:40:58.120
<v Speaker 4>what he's trying to do. Right. We can only see

0:40:58.200 --> 0:41:00.440
<v Speaker 4>one of the officers in the footooth We see the

0:41:00.480 --> 0:41:03.160
<v Speaker 4>other officer later in other footage. The officer in the

0:41:03.160 --> 0:41:05.440
<v Speaker 4>footage does not appear to be dragged that he appears

0:41:05.480 --> 0:41:09.920
<v Speaker 4>to draw his weapon in by standard footage. We then

0:41:10.000 --> 0:41:13.560
<v Speaker 4>see two officers pull theegas Gonzales from the vehicle and

0:41:14.440 --> 0:41:18.920
<v Speaker 4>they begin administering first aid. We're just rewatching the footage

0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:20.319
<v Speaker 4>now and you can see the other age and on

0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:21.520
<v Speaker 4>the other side of the vehicle.

0:41:21.680 --> 0:41:25.000
<v Speaker 2>This sounds very similar to the time that Ice shot

0:41:25.080 --> 0:41:27.600
<v Speaker 2>at the car driving away just a few weeks ago.

0:41:27.800 --> 0:41:32.879
<v Speaker 4>Sure, and Sam Beernardino absolutely, Yeah. Generally, I have no

0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:36.000
<v Speaker 4>idea of what rules Ice are operating under. It's not

0:41:36.120 --> 0:41:38.799
<v Speaker 4>considered best practice to open fire a vehicle that is

0:41:38.800 --> 0:41:41.520
<v Speaker 4>moving away from you unless it is actively endangering no

0:41:41.719 --> 0:41:43.040
<v Speaker 4>someone else's life, right.

0:41:43.000 --> 0:41:45.800
<v Speaker 1>In part because even if it's endangering someone else's life,

0:41:46.440 --> 0:41:50.759
<v Speaker 1>a handgun will not stop a car. Yeah, maybe you

0:41:50.880 --> 0:41:54.080
<v Speaker 1>hit the driver, but the odds are just as good,

0:41:54.080 --> 0:41:56.720
<v Speaker 1>if not much better, then it goes through a window

0:41:56.760 --> 0:42:01.000
<v Speaker 1>and remains lethal going past the car during people's lives.

0:42:01.600 --> 0:42:04.400
<v Speaker 5>And also it's worth mentioning on the other side of

0:42:04.440 --> 0:42:06.440
<v Speaker 5>the car from the officer who we see draw his

0:42:06.520 --> 0:42:10.200
<v Speaker 5>gun is the other agent. Yes, yeah, so if you're

0:42:10.200 --> 0:42:14.640
<v Speaker 5>shooting at the car, you're you're shooting at your other.

0:42:14.600 --> 0:42:19.560
<v Speaker 1>Agian guns don't stop cars generally, unless you're calling a

0:42:19.560 --> 0:42:24.279
<v Speaker 1>fifty caliber anti materiel rifle. Guns don't stop cars. Yeah,

0:42:25.440 --> 0:42:28.320
<v Speaker 1>they do stop people, but they but they keep bullets

0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:30.600
<v Speaker 1>keep going when they miss. It's just bad. It's a

0:42:30.640 --> 0:42:33.919
<v Speaker 1>bad thing to do. It's irresponsible. It's normal cop shit.

0:42:34.480 --> 0:42:38.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so what we see is at least two shots fired,

0:42:39.560 --> 0:42:42.399
<v Speaker 4>and then we begin to see that then they leave

0:42:42.480 --> 0:42:46.600
<v Speaker 4>the screen of the surveillance camera, right, so we don't

0:42:46.680 --> 0:42:51.560
<v Speaker 4>see exactly like we're unable to see. I guess where

0:42:51.560 --> 0:42:55.520
<v Speaker 4>those bullets impact the bystander. Footy Sen shows his vehicle

0:42:55.560 --> 0:42:59.240
<v Speaker 4>crashed into the undercarriage of a large lorry like a truck,

0:43:00.280 --> 0:43:04.400
<v Speaker 4>and he's hit that vehicle in a way that could

0:43:04.400 --> 0:43:07.920
<v Speaker 4>also have been fatal, right like the way that he's

0:43:08.280 --> 0:43:10.200
<v Speaker 4>he's hit that vehicle, like the engine block of the

0:43:10.200 --> 0:43:12.239
<v Speaker 4>car goes underneath, so it would be the driver who

0:43:12.280 --> 0:43:15.680
<v Speaker 4>would take the main impact because the because the trailer

0:43:15.840 --> 0:43:19.399
<v Speaker 4>is higher off the ground. Right, Hopefully that's making sense

0:43:19.400 --> 0:43:23.239
<v Speaker 4>to people. Totally, he's traveled about one hundred feet in

0:43:23.320 --> 0:43:26.400
<v Speaker 4>this time period. Unraveled Press have a pretty good account

0:43:26.440 --> 0:43:28.360
<v Speaker 4>of this. I've cobbled together I think most of the

0:43:28.400 --> 0:43:31.959
<v Speaker 4>open source video and also the surveillance video. There don't

0:43:32.000 --> 0:43:36.200
<v Speaker 4>appear in those videos to be any other agents present,

0:43:36.280 --> 0:43:39.480
<v Speaker 4>and when we see the agents rendering aid, none of

0:43:39.480 --> 0:43:42.160
<v Speaker 4>them appears to be in the state someone would be

0:43:42.239 --> 0:43:45.840
<v Speaker 4>had they been dragged by a fast moving car. Also, again,

0:43:45.920 --> 0:43:48.080
<v Speaker 4>like with reference to shooting at a moving vehicle, off

0:43:48.080 --> 0:43:51.839
<v Speaker 4>the moving vehicle is dragging your colleague, you're shooting also

0:43:51.880 --> 0:43:55.840
<v Speaker 4>at your colleague if you shoot at the vehicle. So, unfortunately,

0:43:55.880 --> 0:43:58.360
<v Speaker 4>one of this changes the fact that this guy is

0:43:58.400 --> 0:44:01.400
<v Speaker 4>now dead. Right. The Mexican Consular has confirmed his age.

0:44:01.920 --> 0:44:05.000
<v Speaker 4>They said he was working as a cook as his profession,

0:44:05.000 --> 0:44:07.600
<v Speaker 4>and that he was from michual Pun. The consulate has

0:44:07.680 --> 0:44:12.040
<v Speaker 4>been in touch with his family. Generally, I'm not familiar

0:44:12.040 --> 0:44:14.960
<v Speaker 4>with this instance and what will happen. Generally, the Mexican

0:44:15.000 --> 0:44:19.240
<v Speaker 4>Consulate will help with returning the remains of Mexican nationals

0:44:19.280 --> 0:44:23.880
<v Speaker 4>to their families in Mexico. That's most of what I

0:44:24.040 --> 0:44:27.040
<v Speaker 4>have on his death. It seems to have moved like

0:44:27.840 --> 0:44:30.640
<v Speaker 4>very quickly through the news cycle, which is unfortunate because

0:44:30.640 --> 0:44:33.279
<v Speaker 4>obviously you have children who have lost a father here

0:44:33.280 --> 0:44:34.719
<v Speaker 4>like this. This is a tragedy too.

0:44:34.880 --> 0:44:38.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, this is tragic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:44:38.200 --> 0:44:40.640
<v Speaker 5>You know, And I am sitting here haunted by the

0:44:40.680 --> 0:44:44.239
<v Speaker 5>fact that they killed this guy two days after the

0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:46.600
<v Speaker 5>Charlie Kirk shooting. I think most of the people who

0:44:46.600 --> 0:44:48.880
<v Speaker 5>are listening to the show right now don't know this happened.

0:44:49.239 --> 0:44:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, these agents aren't going to get prosecuted into court

0:44:52.120 --> 0:44:54.360
<v Speaker 2>of law for this, the same way that absolutely the

0:44:54.480 --> 0:44:55.560
<v Speaker 2>Charlie kirkisas ad will.

0:44:56.239 --> 0:44:59.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, generally, like local dealer, there have been some cases,

0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:02.840
<v Speaker 4>but I'm not really aware of any filed against Border

0:45:02.880 --> 0:45:07.920
<v Speaker 4>Patrol agents. Generally, DHS has an agency which investigates like

0:45:08.080 --> 0:45:12.040
<v Speaker 4>use of force incidents, right, and it is I will

0:45:12.080 --> 0:45:15.280
<v Speaker 4>say it is extremely There have been times when agents

0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:16.080
<v Speaker 4>have been charged.

0:45:18.040 --> 0:45:22.800
<v Speaker 2>They are rare Stephen Miller's DHSS. That seems very unlikely.

0:45:23.000 --> 0:45:25.240
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Like I'm aware of some charges, for instance, in

0:45:25.440 --> 0:45:28.719
<v Speaker 4>San Diego for like agents who have allowed drugs to

0:45:28.760 --> 0:45:29.480
<v Speaker 4>cross the border.

0:45:29.560 --> 0:45:32.839
<v Speaker 5>Right, sure, it is pretty rare. Yeah, So let's let's

0:45:32.920 --> 0:45:36.839
<v Speaker 5>talk about what ICE's occupation of Chicago has been. Like, Yeah,

0:45:37.120 --> 0:45:41.000
<v Speaker 5>I kind of want to start with something that's been

0:45:41.080 --> 0:45:43.200
<v Speaker 5>very frustrating, which is a lot of the way that

0:45:43.320 --> 0:45:48.160
<v Speaker 5>Chicago has been discussed in the wake of Trump, like

0:45:48.719 --> 0:45:53.399
<v Speaker 5>not deploying the National Guard. There has been about oh,

0:45:53.440 --> 0:45:55.520
<v Speaker 5>if you resist Trumpet will like, you know, you can

0:45:55.520 --> 0:45:59.120
<v Speaker 5>defeat him, and like that's true. But also ICE and

0:45:59.200 --> 0:46:02.600
<v Speaker 5>Border patrol are on the ground in Chicago as we're

0:46:02.640 --> 0:46:04.960
<v Speaker 5>listening to this right now, dragging people from their homes.

0:46:06.080 --> 0:46:11.080
<v Speaker 5>The raids have gone to a significant extent the way

0:46:11.120 --> 0:46:17.239
<v Speaker 5>that we expected them to. They have been largely very

0:46:17.360 --> 0:46:20.839
<v Speaker 5>very fast lightning raids. A lot of them have been

0:46:20.880 --> 0:46:23.560
<v Speaker 5>an outlying part of Chicago land, which has been making

0:46:23.560 --> 0:46:27.160
<v Speaker 5>it difficult to both track them and determine numbers because

0:46:27.200 --> 0:46:30.080
<v Speaker 5>a lot of these parts of these massive Chicago suburbs.

0:46:30.080 --> 0:46:32.719
<v Speaker 5>We're going to talk about one later called Elgin that

0:46:32.760 --> 0:46:35.160
<v Speaker 5>has one hundred thousand people in it, but also doesn't

0:46:35.360 --> 0:46:38.360
<v Speaker 5>have the kind of I mean they have like local journalists,

0:46:38.360 --> 0:46:40.719
<v Speaker 5>but they don't have like the kind of press core

0:46:41.520 --> 0:46:44.960
<v Speaker 5>that they're like the city of Chicago proper has and

0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:47.359
<v Speaker 5>so documentation isn't much harder, which is part of why

0:46:47.360 --> 0:46:50.960
<v Speaker 5>they've been striking out there. It's largely been Ice, but

0:46:51.080 --> 0:46:55.120
<v Speaker 5>Border Patrol has shown up, and part of the Border

0:46:55.160 --> 0:46:58.359
<v Speaker 5>Patrol appearing has been that this has also been a

0:46:58.360 --> 0:47:02.160
<v Speaker 5>giant pr blitz for a Trump administration officials, as the

0:47:02.200 --> 0:47:04.680
<v Speaker 5>people at Unraveled have pointed out, and we'll be talking

0:47:04.719 --> 0:47:07.000
<v Speaker 5>to them more next week about what things have been

0:47:07.040 --> 0:47:12.120
<v Speaker 5>like on the ground. A senior Border Patrol official, Gregory

0:47:12.160 --> 0:47:15.840
<v Speaker 5>Bovino has claimed too, we don't actually have like photograph

0:47:15.920 --> 0:47:18.000
<v Speaker 5>everyone's in there, but he was posting on X that

0:47:18.080 --> 0:47:21.720
<v Speaker 5>he was. He went to Franklin Park, which is where

0:47:21.840 --> 0:47:27.520
<v Speaker 5>Ice shot that guy a couple of days after the shooting. Okay,

0:47:27.640 --> 0:47:31.840
<v Speaker 5>he has been releasing an entire stream of TikTok and

0:47:32.040 --> 0:47:34.520
<v Speaker 5>X posts to sort of like advertise his presence in

0:47:34.520 --> 0:47:36.360
<v Speaker 5>the city and doing this whole we did this in

0:47:36.480 --> 0:47:39.160
<v Speaker 5>LA or doing this here now thing. JMC. You don't

0:47:39.160 --> 0:47:40.319
<v Speaker 5>talk a little bit about who he.

0:47:40.280 --> 0:47:44.760
<v Speaker 4>Is, Yeah, I do. So. Beveno was, at least until recently,

0:47:45.520 --> 0:47:47.680
<v Speaker 4>he's appeared to be as you say working in Chicago now.

0:47:48.080 --> 0:47:52.840
<v Speaker 4>His Twitter now reads Commander op at Large CA Gregory K. Bavino.

0:47:52.920 --> 0:47:55.240
<v Speaker 4>He was a chief patrol agent in Neil Centro sector

0:47:55.480 --> 0:47:58.680
<v Speaker 4>when we saw Operation Return to Sender right. Operation Return

0:47:58.719 --> 0:48:00.880
<v Speaker 4>Tocember was December of twenty t twenty four. That's happened

0:48:00.960 --> 0:48:04.839
<v Speaker 4>under a Biden administration. This was the first of these

0:48:04.960 --> 0:48:07.560
<v Speaker 4>border patrol roving stops way north of the border, right

0:48:07.640 --> 0:48:12.680
<v Speaker 4>up in the central Valley, stopping people in home depots,

0:48:12.760 --> 0:48:17.319
<v Speaker 4>stopping people people who appeared to be Latino, Latina Latine

0:48:17.600 --> 0:48:20.960
<v Speaker 4>on the street. I would say that cal Matters has

0:48:21.280 --> 0:48:23.120
<v Speaker 4>had a really good coverage of that, and I can

0:48:23.160 --> 0:48:25.880
<v Speaker 4>link it in the show notes. We also saw the

0:48:25.920 --> 0:48:28.400
<v Speaker 4>deployment of Border Patrol to La right, that was the

0:48:28.640 --> 0:48:30.760
<v Speaker 4>El Centre section, So people aren't familiar with El Centro

0:48:31.080 --> 0:48:33.799
<v Speaker 4>east of San Diego along the border right, it's sort

0:48:33.800 --> 0:48:36.080
<v Speaker 4>of most of the way to Arizona if your driving

0:48:36.120 --> 0:48:39.080
<v Speaker 4>from San Diego. He is really, like I would say,

0:48:39.080 --> 0:48:41.760
<v Speaker 4>a man of the moment in terms of Trump's border patrol.

0:48:41.880 --> 0:48:44.920
<v Speaker 4>Right like, border Patrol is an agency that's changed a

0:48:44.960 --> 0:48:47.120
<v Speaker 4>lot over the years. There was a time with Border

0:48:47.120 --> 0:48:49.840
<v Speaker 4>Patrol recruiter from the Peace corps now is not that time.

0:48:50.200 --> 0:48:55.120
<v Speaker 4>One thing that Bevino has been very good at in

0:48:55.160 --> 0:48:57.920
<v Speaker 4>the sense of like doing what the administration wants from

0:48:57.920 --> 0:48:59.520
<v Speaker 4>a border patrol agent right now is his use of

0:48:59.520 --> 0:49:01.800
<v Speaker 4>social media. My understanding is that they have a whole

0:49:01.840 --> 0:49:04.759
<v Speaker 4>team dedicated to this in the El Centro sector, right,

0:49:04.760 --> 0:49:07.640
<v Speaker 4>that they have videographers and photographers and such to make

0:49:08.160 --> 0:49:11.680
<v Speaker 4>social media for the border patrol. And Bavina really seems

0:49:11.719 --> 0:49:16.560
<v Speaker 4>to have been stepping up in importance, like he has

0:49:16.560 --> 0:49:19.000
<v Speaker 4>this sort of he also cuts a very distinctive figure

0:49:19.040 --> 0:49:22.839
<v Speaker 4>with this kind of crop side haircut, like you can

0:49:22.840 --> 0:49:24.239
<v Speaker 4>find a picture of his haircut online. I don't how

0:49:24.239 --> 0:49:27.160
<v Speaker 4>to describe it. It's where the brick picture shows him

0:49:27.600 --> 0:49:31.319
<v Speaker 4>holding an ar with a low powered variable octic Like

0:49:31.960 --> 0:49:37.520
<v Speaker 4>he is this new tactical, aggressive, very aggressive social media

0:49:37.560 --> 0:49:41.720
<v Speaker 4>presence border patrol officer. Right. And we've seen El Centro

0:49:41.800 --> 0:49:45.080
<v Speaker 4>Border Patrol station specifically be at the forefront of a

0:49:45.160 --> 0:49:48.480
<v Speaker 4>lot of these operations. As I said, even going back

0:49:48.560 --> 0:49:52.800
<v Speaker 4>to the Biden era, if you're wondering, border patrol sectors

0:49:53.280 --> 0:49:55.520
<v Speaker 4>are not just around the cities that they're named for, right,

0:49:55.719 --> 0:49:57.680
<v Speaker 4>They can go a long way north, So it's the

0:49:57.680 --> 0:50:00.359
<v Speaker 4>San Diego sector, the El Centro sector. These are not

0:50:00.400 --> 0:50:03.200
<v Speaker 4>necessarily defined by places that you would recognize as being

0:50:03.280 --> 0:50:05.760
<v Speaker 4>close to San Diego or El Centro, which is why

0:50:05.840 --> 0:50:07.759
<v Speaker 4>you would have seen them operating as far north as

0:50:07.800 --> 0:50:11.200
<v Speaker 4>Los Angeles. I'm not as familiar with northern border sectors,

0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:13.560
<v Speaker 4>haven't spent as much time there, but I would imagine

0:50:13.600 --> 0:50:16.080
<v Speaker 4>that there is a border patrail sector that attains to

0:50:16.120 --> 0:50:19.520
<v Speaker 4>the area that Chicago is in. So perhaps, but you know,

0:50:19.560 --> 0:50:21.640
<v Speaker 4>it's now doing some kind of operational command for these

0:50:21.760 --> 0:50:24.440
<v Speaker 4>urban things rather than working in that sector. I'm not

0:50:24.600 --> 0:50:26.920
<v Speaker 4>entirely sure, but yeah, that's who he is.

0:50:27.239 --> 0:50:29.719
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and he's been you know, he's been making an

0:50:29.880 --> 0:50:33.279
<v Speaker 5>enormous deal of showing up in Chicago, and this has

0:50:33.320 --> 0:50:37.080
<v Speaker 5>been something that's increasingly This is part of what it

0:50:37.160 --> 0:50:39.560
<v Speaker 5>means for ice and Border Patrol to show up in

0:50:39.560 --> 0:50:44.440
<v Speaker 5>the city, is you get these fucking, just absolutely hideous

0:50:44.480 --> 0:50:50.520
<v Speaker 5>pr ops. On Tuesday, Kercy nome last scene shooting a

0:50:50.560 --> 0:50:55.280
<v Speaker 5>dog joined a raid in Elgin, which is a pretty

0:50:55.320 --> 0:50:58.920
<v Speaker 5>far flung suburb of Chicago with about one hundred thousand

0:50:58.920 --> 0:51:03.440
<v Speaker 5>people in it, and she showed up to do basically

0:51:03.680 --> 0:51:07.400
<v Speaker 5>a PR junket at this raid at five in the

0:51:07.440 --> 0:51:11.719
<v Speaker 5>morning in Elgin, where I survived with helicopters. They blew

0:51:11.800 --> 0:51:15.240
<v Speaker 5>up someone's door and they grabbed a bunch of people,

0:51:15.280 --> 0:51:17.320
<v Speaker 5>and then they were forced to release two of the

0:51:17.360 --> 0:51:19.880
<v Speaker 5>seven people they grabbed because they immediately turned out to

0:51:19.920 --> 0:51:25.719
<v Speaker 5>be US citizens. Kurst has denied that they detained them

0:51:25.840 --> 0:51:30.600
<v Speaker 5>and said that, oh no, actually we just separated them

0:51:30.719 --> 0:51:34.279
<v Speaker 5>for their protection. What we did the operation like that

0:51:34.400 --> 0:51:37.359
<v Speaker 5>doesn't seem to be true from everything that we've heard

0:51:37.360 --> 0:51:41.440
<v Speaker 5>from witnesses the scene. But yeah, this is you know,

0:51:41.520 --> 0:51:45.399
<v Speaker 5>these are the way that these enforcement operations, the way

0:51:45.400 --> 0:51:47.719
<v Speaker 5>that these raids have gone is at the beginning of

0:51:48.000 --> 0:51:50.799
<v Speaker 5>a major operation, cycles turned into these press circuits for

0:51:50.920 --> 0:51:51.959
<v Speaker 5>people like Chursy Nome.

0:51:52.440 --> 0:51:54.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, GNOME's been on a few raids like this has

0:51:55.000 --> 0:51:57.319
<v Speaker 4>been a consistent thing, right, that these raids are a

0:51:57.360 --> 0:51:59.960
<v Speaker 4>content creation exercises much tall law enforcement.

0:52:00.360 --> 0:52:03.120
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and it excuse to dress up all that good stuff.

0:52:03.200 --> 0:52:05.560
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and you know it. It's this, it's this like

0:52:05.719 --> 0:52:08.759
<v Speaker 5>reveling both in this you know, in this sort of

0:52:08.840 --> 0:52:12.320
<v Speaker 5>like like constructed like I'm holding an air fifteen lookout

0:52:12.360 --> 0:52:15.280
<v Speaker 5>tough I am image and also just in the cruelty

0:52:15.320 --> 0:52:17.480
<v Speaker 5>and the suffering in the same way that the alligator

0:52:17.520 --> 0:52:21.600
<v Speaker 5>Alcatraz stuff was. But it's worth noting that most of

0:52:21.600 --> 0:52:23.840
<v Speaker 5>the raids have not looked like this, Like this this

0:52:23.960 --> 0:52:27.440
<v Speaker 5>was a raid where like, you know, people were woken

0:52:27.520 --> 0:52:30.719
<v Speaker 5>up in this basically this random suburb at five in

0:52:30.760 --> 0:52:32.879
<v Speaker 5>the morning because like they heard an explosion and ice

0:52:32.920 --> 0:52:35.160
<v Speaker 5>had blocked off all of their streets and their armored

0:52:35.239 --> 0:52:38.160
<v Speaker 5>vehicles and helicopters. Most of what they've been are not

0:52:38.400 --> 0:52:42.080
<v Speaker 5>like that. They've been following the pattern established in LA

0:52:42.360 --> 0:52:47.040
<v Speaker 5>of very very rapid raids to avoid rep response networks,

0:52:47.640 --> 0:52:50.800
<v Speaker 5>targeting accombination of houses, job sites, and you know, places

0:52:50.800 --> 0:52:54.480
<v Speaker 5>like home depot and you know, when we talked about

0:52:54.600 --> 0:52:57.200
<v Speaker 5>this beginning a couple of weeks ago, we talked about

0:52:57.239 --> 0:53:00.960
<v Speaker 5>how these people are being deployed largely from this naval

0:53:01.040 --> 0:53:04.160
<v Speaker 5>base that is hours out from the city, right And

0:53:04.200 --> 0:53:06.479
<v Speaker 5>that's part of why these a lot of these raids,

0:53:06.480 --> 0:53:08.680
<v Speaker 5>although they have been going to the South Side, which

0:53:08.680 --> 0:53:11.880
<v Speaker 5>is significantly far away, but a lot of these raids

0:53:11.960 --> 0:53:14.479
<v Speaker 5>have been in places like Elgin that are further north

0:53:14.560 --> 0:53:18.239
<v Speaker 5>and are more outlying because they are closer to this

0:53:18.440 --> 0:53:22.000
<v Speaker 5>naval base than the core of the city of Chicago,

0:53:22.760 --> 0:53:25.360
<v Speaker 5>and it's easier to do there because there's less resistance.

0:53:25.520 --> 0:53:28.160
<v Speaker 5>There's been a bunch of raids in Elgin. They took

0:53:29.200 --> 0:53:32.880
<v Speaker 5>a student from a community college. They've just been dragging

0:53:32.920 --> 0:53:36.200
<v Speaker 5>people from their homes and workplaces. There was a very

0:53:36.320 --> 0:53:39.560
<v Speaker 5>very well publicized raid in Naperville, which is another sort

0:53:39.560 --> 0:53:42.759
<v Speaker 5>of outlying suburb, where they grabbed people who are like

0:53:42.800 --> 0:53:43.880
<v Speaker 5>fixing someone's roof.

0:53:44.280 --> 0:53:46.640
<v Speaker 4>Was that the one where people remained on the roof?

0:53:46.920 --> 0:53:49.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah some time? Yeah, okay, yeah.

0:53:49.239 --> 0:53:53.799
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, really horrible seeing people are extremely pissed off. There's

0:53:53.840 --> 0:53:56.120
<v Speaker 5>another story that I's gotten very very little coverage that

0:53:56.200 --> 0:53:59.600
<v Speaker 5>was horrifying in Displains, which is the suburb just north

0:53:59.640 --> 0:54:03.960
<v Speaker 5>of Oha, where ice agents and masks did a very

0:54:04.040 --> 0:54:05.560
<v Speaker 5>very standard thing that they've been doing.

0:54:05.719 --> 0:54:05.920
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:54:05.920 --> 0:54:07.520
<v Speaker 5>This is, I mean a kind of standard ice tactic

0:54:07.600 --> 0:54:10.880
<v Speaker 5>where they wait for people to get back into a

0:54:11.000 --> 0:54:13.080
<v Speaker 5>truck and then they block the truck off with their

0:54:13.120 --> 0:54:16.360
<v Speaker 5>trucks to prevent it from leaving. And I'm going to

0:54:16.440 --> 0:54:19.200
<v Speaker 5>read a CBS report of what happened next because I

0:54:19.239 --> 0:54:21.840
<v Speaker 5>think it's important to understand what is actually like for

0:54:21.960 --> 0:54:25.880
<v Speaker 5>these people. Edgar, who's one of the people who was

0:54:25.920 --> 0:54:29.279
<v Speaker 5>in the car said that when the agent originally came

0:54:29.320 --> 0:54:32.320
<v Speaker 5>to the passenger door, he tried holding the door closed

0:54:32.320 --> 0:54:35.040
<v Speaker 5>for preventing him from opening it. He said at the

0:54:35.080 --> 0:54:38.120
<v Speaker 5>time that he and his family had no idea who

0:54:38.760 --> 0:54:41.560
<v Speaker 5>was at the vehicle, and everyone was scared. When the

0:54:41.600 --> 0:54:44.640
<v Speaker 5>agent tried opening the door, Edgar said he was tased

0:54:44.680 --> 0:54:47.320
<v Speaker 5>in the face. That's when he told everyone in the

0:54:47.360 --> 0:54:50.840
<v Speaker 5>truck to run for their lives. Despite being a US citizen,

0:54:51.200 --> 0:54:54.440
<v Speaker 5>they ran out of fear. So what's happening here is

0:54:55.120 --> 0:54:58.440
<v Speaker 5>there's these two brothers and their dad who is undocumented.

0:54:58.480 --> 0:55:03.440
<v Speaker 5>The two brothers were born in Chicago, and they block

0:55:03.480 --> 0:55:06.360
<v Speaker 5>off this car. They show up in masks. The people

0:55:06.360 --> 0:55:08.359
<v Speaker 5>in the car have absolutely no idea who they are,

0:55:09.280 --> 0:55:12.000
<v Speaker 5>and when they try to not get their car broken into,

0:55:12.080 --> 0:55:14.680
<v Speaker 5>they tase this guy, who is an American citizen in

0:55:14.719 --> 0:55:17.479
<v Speaker 5>the face. He has to go to the hospital because

0:55:17.480 --> 0:55:22.680
<v Speaker 5>they tased him in the face. And this there are

0:55:22.719 --> 0:55:25.759
<v Speaker 5>stories like this. This is a particularly bad one, but

0:55:25.760 --> 0:55:27.319
<v Speaker 5>there are stories like the rest of the raids that

0:55:27.320 --> 0:55:31.440
<v Speaker 5>we've been talking about every single day in Chicago that

0:55:32.000 --> 0:55:34.440
<v Speaker 5>do not break containments at all. In a country that

0:55:34.560 --> 0:55:38.359
<v Speaker 5>is literally entirely just talking about Charlie Kirk. There are

0:55:38.400 --> 0:55:41.359
<v Speaker 5>people being dragged from their homes. There are people being

0:55:41.400 --> 0:55:43.760
<v Speaker 5>dragged from their fucking places of work, They're being dragged

0:55:43.760 --> 0:55:48.800
<v Speaker 5>from their schools. And this is just what the US

0:55:49.040 --> 0:55:54.080
<v Speaker 5>is right now now, as fucking unbelievably bleak as this

0:55:54.320 --> 0:55:58.520
<v Speaker 5>is right, and people are terrified, but they're also angry,

0:55:58.560 --> 0:56:01.839
<v Speaker 5>and people are also organizing, and as we saw in LA,

0:56:01.880 --> 0:56:04.359
<v Speaker 5>people are forming rapid response networks and they're showing up

0:56:04.360 --> 0:56:07.960
<v Speaker 5>in places that I never would have thought. I mean,

0:56:08.000 --> 0:56:10.640
<v Speaker 5>maybe there'd be NGO networks, but they're doing things in

0:56:10.680 --> 0:56:14.000
<v Speaker 5>places I just wouldn't have thought possible. I want to

0:56:14.000 --> 0:56:16.160
<v Speaker 5>close this by there was a report on Thursday by

0:56:17.160 --> 0:56:20.959
<v Speaker 5>Sean Molkay, who's the news editor at The Reader, which

0:56:20.960 --> 0:56:25.000
<v Speaker 5>is a good independent outlet in Chicago. So ICE tried

0:56:25.160 --> 0:56:28.919
<v Speaker 5>the same tactic of blockading someone's truck and grabbing them

0:56:29.120 --> 0:56:33.880
<v Speaker 5>in a suburb called Wheaton, Illinois, and a bunch of

0:56:33.920 --> 0:56:36.480
<v Speaker 5>people when they tried to do this smash and grab

0:56:36.880 --> 0:56:39.040
<v Speaker 5>of this person's truck, a whole bunch of people showed

0:56:39.120 --> 0:56:42.359
<v Speaker 5>up and confronted them and screamed at them and recorded them,

0:56:42.400 --> 0:56:44.400
<v Speaker 5>and this caused the ICE people to take off and

0:56:44.480 --> 0:56:47.279
<v Speaker 5>run away without detaining the person. And this is a

0:56:47.360 --> 0:56:50.120
<v Speaker 5>stunning development if you know anything about either Chicago Land

0:56:50.200 --> 0:56:54.680
<v Speaker 5>or evangelicalism. Wheaton is the home of Wheaton College, which

0:56:54.719 --> 0:56:56.879
<v Speaker 5>is like, it's one of like the three big right

0:56:56.920 --> 0:56:59.840
<v Speaker 5>wing like Christian universities, alongside like Brigham Young and Liberty.

0:57:00.680 --> 0:57:04.480
<v Speaker 5>This is wild. This was one of the home bases

0:57:04.560 --> 0:57:07.759
<v Speaker 5>of power of the Bush era moral majority right like

0:57:08.080 --> 0:57:10.840
<v Speaker 5>Wheaton College is a school where dancing was illegal and

0:57:10.920 --> 0:57:13.160
<v Speaker 5>until two thousand and three, like, they've banned dancing for

0:57:13.200 --> 0:57:16.680
<v Speaker 5>one hundred and forty three years. And if people in

0:57:16.800 --> 0:57:19.920
<v Speaker 5>Wheaton are showing up to do direct actions against Ice,

0:57:20.320 --> 0:57:23.840
<v Speaker 5>these people they're cooked, right, They will be able to

0:57:23.840 --> 0:57:25.560
<v Speaker 5>do a significant amount of damage. They have been doing

0:57:25.560 --> 0:57:27.360
<v Speaker 5>significant amount of damage. We've just been talking about the

0:57:27.400 --> 0:57:30.160
<v Speaker 5>amount of damage they've been doing. But if this is

0:57:30.200 --> 0:57:32.480
<v Speaker 5>what is happening in places that used to be moral

0:57:32.520 --> 0:57:37.840
<v Speaker 5>majority strongholds right, places that produce some of the most

0:57:37.880 --> 0:57:42.320
<v Speaker 5>famous like Christian right wingers who shaped an entire half

0:57:42.400 --> 0:57:46.640
<v Speaker 5>century of American politics, if people there are showing up

0:57:46.640 --> 0:57:49.600
<v Speaker 5>and doing direct actions against Ice and winning, things are

0:57:49.680 --> 0:57:55.120
<v Speaker 5>fucking changing. People are radicalizing very quickly, and despite everything

0:57:55.120 --> 0:57:57.320
<v Speaker 5>that's been happening by all of the Kirk stuff Trump's

0:57:57.480 --> 0:58:01.280
<v Speaker 5>pulling keeps getting worse and worse, And I think this

0:58:01.400 --> 0:58:04.280
<v Speaker 5>is a good reminder that, like these people, part of

0:58:04.280 --> 0:58:06.360
<v Speaker 5>the reason they're moving so fast and so hard right

0:58:06.360 --> 0:58:09.640
<v Speaker 5>now is because they know they are staggeringly unpopular and

0:58:09.680 --> 0:58:12.680
<v Speaker 5>they have to get their crack down and they have

0:58:12.720 --> 0:58:15.880
<v Speaker 5>to build a political and legal power right now before

0:58:15.880 --> 0:58:19.120
<v Speaker 5>it gets even worse for them, and they're terrified that,

0:58:19.400 --> 0:58:22.960
<v Speaker 5>you know, if there are a thousand wheatns, what if

0:58:23.040 --> 0:58:27.520
<v Speaker 5>enough people resist them, they don't have the capacity to

0:58:27.640 --> 0:58:31.560
<v Speaker 5>stop them. Because everybody fucking hates these people and they

0:58:31.560 --> 0:58:35.320
<v Speaker 5>hate what they're doing. Nobody actually likes, you know, shock

0:58:35.360 --> 0:58:37.920
<v Speaker 5>troopers showing up in the neighborhoods and dragging the people

0:58:37.960 --> 0:58:41.480
<v Speaker 5>they love away from them. And it's going to be

0:58:41.520 --> 0:58:45.640
<v Speaker 5>a really, really long and hard battle. But the fact

0:58:45.760 --> 0:58:47.960
<v Speaker 5>that people are fighting in places where that would have

0:58:47.960 --> 0:58:53.120
<v Speaker 5>been unimaginable even ten years ago is I think at

0:58:53.200 --> 0:58:55.640
<v Speaker 5>least a small sign of hope in the darkness.

0:58:56.760 --> 0:59:00.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's probably where we ought to end, is

0:59:00.160 --> 0:59:01.840
<v Speaker 1>a small sign of hope in the darkness.

0:59:02.760 --> 0:59:04.720
<v Speaker 4>If you would like to contact us, you can do

0:59:04.840 --> 0:59:08.840
<v Speaker 4>so by using our proton mail email address cool Zone

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0:59:13.280 --> 0:59:15.000
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0:59:15.760 --> 0:59:17.000
<v Speaker 2>We reported the news.

0:59:18.200 --> 0:59:19.200
<v Speaker 3>We reported the news.

0:59:27.600 --> 0:59:30.200
<v Speaker 6>It could happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

0:59:30.280 --> 0:59:33.360
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