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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. Uh you boy, Doug Gottlieb. You are

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Speaker 1: listening to All Ball, the All Basketball Podcast. Dave Pilopovic

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Speaker 1: is our guest this week, fantastic story and storyteller as

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Speaker 1: we go from Pittsburgh, p A, to the Air Force

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Speaker 1: Academy and to Infinity and beyond. Oh I I did,

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Speaker 1: I did in fact go there? All right, let me

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Speaker 1: give you a couple of topics before you hop into

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Speaker 1: our interview with Dave Pilopovic. First thing is, and I've

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Speaker 1: heard this from a couple of NBA people. You know,

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Speaker 1: there are guys in the NBA and I won't name

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Speaker 1: names because that's not fun. It's more fun for you

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Speaker 1: to guess. There are players that play to their stats

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Speaker 1: and they want their stats to be so gaudy that

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Speaker 1: they are All Stars. And so you start to wonder, hey,

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Speaker 1: what is the line that we can cut off for

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Speaker 1: a player to be an All Star? Because you know,

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Speaker 1: empty points are empty points, like you put up thirty

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Speaker 1: a night. But if your team sucks, what is it

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Speaker 1: act really matter? So I'm not gonna pick I just

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Speaker 1: there are guys you watch you can load up on

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Speaker 1: the assist by holding it for an extra dribble or

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Speaker 1: two dribbles um that can score at dead points in

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Speaker 1: the game, that don't really affect the game, but can

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Speaker 1: help their plus minus as well. And I hope they're

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Speaker 1: overall point total. I just I almost wonder if for

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Speaker 1: the NBA, and I'm not a big NBA All Star

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Speaker 1: Game guy, like, I can't remember last time I watched

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Speaker 1: the NBA All Star Game, but it's the significance of

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Speaker 1: it within the league. Are you gonna reward somebody for

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Speaker 1: just playing for stats? Are you can awards somebody who

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Speaker 1: attains stats while getting wins. That would be the big

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Speaker 1: challenge to me if I was voting for the All

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Speaker 1: Star Game. As for the NBA, it's it's really interesting

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Speaker 1: in watching Kawhi Leonard go for forty three in less

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Speaker 1: than thirty minutes. That guy's the best player in the NBA.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't come around to it, you haven't been

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Speaker 1: watching how he competes at the top level of the NBA.

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Speaker 1: Does that mean they're gonna win the Western Conference and

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Speaker 1: win an NBA championship or compete I don't know. Everything

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Speaker 1: has to go right, and for the Clippers generally everything

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Speaker 1: goes wrong. On the other hand. If it comes down

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Speaker 1: to why versus Lebron at this point in their career,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna take Kawhi Leonard. He's younger, he is incredibly efficient,

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Speaker 1: He's been in those big spots before, He's been down before,

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Speaker 1: and he's come back before. Not that you couldn't say

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Speaker 1: the same thing about Lebron, but he is thirty four

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Speaker 1: years old. Uh. And in regards to college basketball, it

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Speaker 1: continues to be a turnstyle at the top. But I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by some of these teams offensive droughts. We

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Speaker 1: saw Michigan State, We've seen Oklahoma States scored a hunt

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Speaker 1: one points in the last five halves of basketball. You

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Speaker 1: do the mouth and how bad that is. Um West

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Speaker 1: Virginia has held their last three opponents below fifty points.

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Speaker 1: There their garden people. I think it's a combination of

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Speaker 1: the fact that there's just the talents to spread out

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Speaker 1: and there's not great talent at the top. The game

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Speaker 1: has gotten back to being more physical. I think that

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Speaker 1: you're moving back to the three point shot. I think

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Speaker 1: really affects the three point shot because nobody guys aren't

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Speaker 1: line huckers huggers. They're shooting that ball at at an

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Speaker 1: NBA distance, and they're not NBA shooters, and it gets

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Speaker 1: I know, the numbers dipped down, then came back up,

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Speaker 1: and then moved back last time. But now you've moved

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Speaker 1: it what feels like a more substantial portion back, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's a big cause for why scoring is down.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get to our interview on this podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's Dave Pilopovic. He's the head coach of the Air Force.

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Speaker 1: Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug

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Speaker 1: Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter noon Pacific on

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Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio. Ah app alright,

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Speaker 1: so we welcome in. He's the head coach of the

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Speaker 1: Air Force Academy. Um, he's Dave Pilopovic, and and coach.

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to the beginning, to the

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Speaker 1: very big not not birth, but to the beginning. Um,

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Speaker 1: your first memory of basketball is what you know, being

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Speaker 1: a youngster in a small town at Pittsburgh watching our

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Speaker 1: high school team play what high school, probably probably Duquesne

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Speaker 1: High School which is closed now, Probably six years old,

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Speaker 1: and my dad took me to the game, and I

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Speaker 1: thought they were the best players around, and I thought

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Speaker 1: the atmosphere and the excitement and watching them play was

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Speaker 1: unbelievable and caught me at an early age. What what

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Speaker 1: was your dad like? Uh? Hard worker Pittsburgh Town um

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Speaker 1: high school education, but owned a bar and little restaurants

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Speaker 1: for thirty five years and worked seven days a week,

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Speaker 1: steel Town Bar. Uh steal. But you could come outside

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Speaker 1: the bar and turn left, and you see the blast furnace.

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Speaker 1: So the guys were in at seven in the morning

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Speaker 1: drinking a shot in a beer and in the two

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Speaker 1: in the morning drinking a shot in the beer. And

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Speaker 1: we lived above it in an apartment probably seven square

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Speaker 1: feet at the most. And that's where I was born

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Speaker 1: and raised and loved the Steelers, the pirates of Penguins,

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Speaker 1: and uh back in the day of the A. B. A.

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Speaker 1: That Pittsburgh papers and condors knew a little bit about them.

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Speaker 1: And UH grew up that way. And I knew I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to work and own the bar because he

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Speaker 1: worked too hard seven days a week. Yet you worked

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Speaker 1: every day and that's okay. So how did you how

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Speaker 1: did you get drawn? Because you know Western Pennsylvania's football

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Speaker 1: area right and and and like your your childhood is

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Speaker 1: the golden era of Pittsburgh sports. As you point out right,

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Speaker 1: you had, uh, the we are Family, Pittsburgh Pirates, you

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Speaker 1: had the steel curtain. Um why why why basketball? You

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Speaker 1: know basketball? I was a skinny little kid, slow and

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Speaker 1: Clint guard a shot glass, right, so I can make

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Speaker 1: a few shots. So played, you know, from seven year

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Speaker 1: old seven, seven and eight year old on up some

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Speaker 1: local teams and then junior high and all that, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I just love basketball. And then high school. I was

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Speaker 1: a Division three recruit and went to UH committed to

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Speaker 1: Bethany College in West Virginia, and the coach left in

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Speaker 1: May and went to Mountain Union. Offered me a chance

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Speaker 1: to go to Mountain Union, but I didn't visit. So

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Speaker 1: I went to Teal College, which was not a basketball

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Speaker 1: hotbed four program, but I was there and I played

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Speaker 1: for three coaches of four years. But my sophomore year

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Speaker 1: with a coach by the name of Mike Griffin and

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Speaker 1: just came from Colgate University and he coached us for

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Speaker 1: one year. And you just really made an impact on

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Speaker 1: me because I wasn't a great student, didn't want to

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to study. He just wanted to watch

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Speaker 1: ESPN and go shoot ball and that was it. And

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Speaker 1: so he got me to where I could do better

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Speaker 1: in school. And he made an impact on me. And

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Speaker 1: I said, if I can do that to someone else,

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Speaker 1: I want to do that. And as I graduated, I

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Speaker 1: probably wrote to every college coach in the cruntry country

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Speaker 1: for a g A position. I got one of the

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Speaker 1: division to school in Pennsylvania and they're, well, you're you're, you're, you're,

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Speaker 1: but you're your your your speed, We got, we got

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Speaker 1: and we got time here. Okay. So Tell College. Tell

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Speaker 1: College is an evange evangelical college, right, Lutheran Lutheran school, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So so Lutheran school so um so okay, And it's

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Speaker 1: in what Greenville? So I don't know, Okay, So I

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Speaker 1: don't know where that is in relation to Pittsburgh. How

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Speaker 1: far two hours north of Pittsburgh at the moment? What

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Speaker 1: was that? So? What's that like? You go from like

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Speaker 1: you're in steel Town live bar to this really quiet,

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Speaker 1: peaceful private Lutheran college. What was what do you remember

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Speaker 1: about that transition? You know, Uh, we lived the Bubba bar.

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Speaker 1: So at night you heard the sirens of the police

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Speaker 1: in a firetruck or maybe uh someone had too much

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Speaker 1: of drink, row a bottle against the building or so

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Speaker 1: and just noise. You always had noise and action. I

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Speaker 1: get up there and it's quiet, there's a farm land.

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Speaker 1: It's from different areas because I was an inner city kid. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So it was a culture changes first. And then you

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Speaker 1: know Devision three program. You go and you think you're

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Speaker 1: the recruit and you go and there's twenty five kids

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Speaker 1: at the first workout. Twenty five guys for the first

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Speaker 1: workout say holy prap, you know where's this going? And uh,

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Speaker 1: but it but it worked out. It worked out. I

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Speaker 1: met my wife there. Such probably the best thing to

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Speaker 1: happen through. Why three coaches in four years? Well, coach

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Speaker 1: the first coach we had, That is funny story. First

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Speaker 1: coach we had. He was there for a while and

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Speaker 1: he was coaching the golf teams sistant as a D

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Speaker 1: and coaching basketball, and something happened when he and the

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Speaker 1: a D little sideways. So he was also the tennis

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Speaker 1: coach listening to this. So at the end of the

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Speaker 1: year he's still employed. Uh and then maybe a two

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Speaker 1: weeks out of season they told him they weren't going

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Speaker 1: to bring him back. But he's still the tennis coach. Well,

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Speaker 1: he only had five players on the tennis team, and

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Speaker 1: he says, do you play tennis? And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I hit it around. He goes, we have

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Speaker 1: a match at Walsh College, which the head basket coach

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Speaker 1: was Bob Huggins at the time. He said, we have

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Speaker 1: a match tomorrow. Can you go? I said, do I

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Speaker 1: missed school? We said yeah, saw I'll be there, So

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Speaker 1: we go when we play tennis match. That was terrible.

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Speaker 1: He spent the whole day with coach Huggins in his

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Speaker 1: office looking for a job opportunity. After the after the match,

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Speaker 1: you know, you go, what six dollars to go to

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Speaker 1: Burger King And I'm sitting in the front row of

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Speaker 1: the van and he says, where are you guys want

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Speaker 1: to eat? And that's what Let's go to ponder Rosa.

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Speaker 1: You know, back in the day Ponder Rose and that

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Speaker 1: was the big thing, right. He goes, we don't have

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Speaker 1: that in a budget, and I swear to you. I

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Speaker 1: looked at him and I said, coach, what are they

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Speaker 1: gonna do? Fire you? And I thought you looked take

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Speaker 1: a twin at me, and he looked at me. He said,

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Speaker 1: you're right, we're going upon the rosen What's what's his name?

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Speaker 1: Excuse me? What was his name? Jim bord Chick. Jim Borchick.

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Speaker 1: He was from Barbaraton, Ohio basketball hotbed in high school.

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Speaker 1: He went back and became a very successful high school

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Speaker 1: high school coach in that area. But he was at

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Speaker 1: Teal College for for a time. I think he came

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Speaker 1: from Marietta prior to that. Wow Wow, Okay, so then, uh,

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Speaker 1: your second coach was the one who had an impact

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Speaker 1: on you. What was his name? Mike Griffin. He came

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Speaker 1: from Colgate and at the time he was at cold Gate,

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Speaker 1: he had the leading scored in a country I can't

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Speaker 1: think of his name, A guard about six foot and

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Speaker 1: let the country and scoring. And he was not renewed

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Speaker 1: to cold Gate. So he takes the job at um

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Speaker 1: Till and we were back. I mean we were I

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Speaker 1: think we were four and eighteen that year, maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: somewhere around there. But he was really good. I started

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Speaker 1: a couple of games. He just was, you know, being

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Speaker 1: be a practice, on time, do the right things, go

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Speaker 1: to class, and he was doing all the right things

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Speaker 1: and made an impact on me because we had some

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Speaker 1: kids from Cleveland and weren't doing the right things, and

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Speaker 1: he did of flynt them. That's all. I got to

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Speaker 1: start a few games because when somebody got suspended, I

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Speaker 1: got to start. But at the end of the year,

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Speaker 1: he got the opportunity to go to RPI rental Are

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Speaker 1: Politic Institute. There's your three in Troy, New York. And

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Speaker 1: he went there and he ended up last thing, maybe

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Speaker 1: thirty some years coaching there. And then who is your

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Speaker 1: next coach? Uh? Robert Posey Rhodes, who just passed away

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Speaker 1: two years ago, was a great player, good player, good

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Speaker 1: player at wake Force. Played back in the day at

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Speaker 1: wake Force about six six. You can really score, Skinny

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Speaker 1: got funny put it rubber snuff in during the games.

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Speaker 1: And Uh. He coached my junior senior year and I

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Speaker 1: was captain my senior year. How good were you guys?

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Speaker 1: We we came from three wins my freshman year, three

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Speaker 1: coaches and you know there's twenty six guys only myself

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Speaker 1: and another freshman state through our senior years and then

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Speaker 1: our senior year we played for the conference championship last

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Speaker 1: game year against Hiherman College in Ohio and we got beat.

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Speaker 1: So we made progress, all right. See you're done. You

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Speaker 1: you you write all these letters. You write all these

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Speaker 1: letters because you want so, you want one to coach.

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Speaker 1: So what was the how did how did you get

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Speaker 1: your first job? Well? I got it a division to

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Speaker 1: school California University of Pennsylvania, about an hour from Pittsburgh,

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Speaker 1: a division to school and knew somebody who was a

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Speaker 1: g A prior to that, who put a good word

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Speaker 1: in for me. And I worked the old Metro Index camp,

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Speaker 1: which was big in the East. Five Star was obviously

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Speaker 1: the king, and then Metro was probably second. That time.

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Speaker 1: I worked those camps in the summer, I got to

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Speaker 1: know the coach a little bit, Tim Loomis, and Uh.

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Speaker 1: I was working the camp in July. I still didn't

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Speaker 1: have anything, and after one day camp he uh he

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Speaker 1: said you want the job? And I said yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: all right, George. And that was it. It was and

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Speaker 1: it's in the camp counselor that year, that game, those

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Speaker 1: those years, it was Tom Crean, he was a g

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Speaker 1: A at Central Michigan. He was working the camp. Um

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Speaker 1: it was Jeff Van Gundy was a g A. Providence

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Speaker 1: Herb Syndic who was the providence with Patino and uh

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Speaker 1: Rob Kennedy, who end Up now runs the hoop group.

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Speaker 1: He was he was at Columbia as an assistant and

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Speaker 1: we used to play pick up, you know, when put

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Speaker 1: the campers in bed, we played pick up at night. Wow. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that is a that is a small world. Okay. So

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Speaker 1: what what was it like coaching at California University in Pennsylvania?

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Speaker 1: Oh my, you know you did everything? You know, you're

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Speaker 1: they had one full time They did have a full

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Speaker 1: time assistant, scuse me that year and the next year

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Speaker 1: they did. So you were basically a full time assistant.

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Speaker 1: So you recruited, and you know it was a young guy.

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Speaker 1: You want to recruit, sign everybody. You want to sign

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Speaker 1: top five kids in the country, right, and you realize

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Speaker 1: you can't. So um, check study halls, get the kids

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Speaker 1: to class, drive the vans, wash the you know, you

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Speaker 1: know he did all that, sweep the court. So I'm there.

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Speaker 1: Um we start and it's September and I'm going on

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Speaker 1: my first recruiting trip to the Platta, Maryland to go

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Speaker 1: see a kid play. And I tell coach moment i'm leaving,

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Speaker 1: i'll be back, blah blah. He goes, well, I won't

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Speaker 1: see you when I'm back, and I said, what do

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Speaker 1: you mean you won't see me? He goes, I just

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Speaker 1: took a job with Bruce park Kill Penn State. I'm

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Speaker 1: leaving that. He was what he was where you're good

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Speaker 1: to your g a position, you're fine, he's I'll call

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Speaker 1: you on Sunday, and he left. He went to Penn State.

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Speaker 1: It was an assistant Bruce park Kill, and about a

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Speaker 1: three reprocess, they hired Jim boone Um. He was assistant

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Speaker 1: at Baptist Colleges Baptist back then Alex Charles the Southern

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Speaker 1: and he came in and we developed a great relationship

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Speaker 1: and had a nice little run there for two years

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Speaker 1: and I got hired as a full time played one

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Speaker 1: more year and then where Van Tim Loomis leaves Penn State,

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Speaker 1: takes the head job at Florida Atlantic. They were just

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Speaker 1: started the program the year prior and had a coach

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Speaker 1: for one year, Lonnie Williams, and for some reason he

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Speaker 1: left after one year. Kim take the job on the

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Speaker 1: UH Prague promised that they're gonna go Division one, which

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Speaker 1: we did. So we were Division two for two years

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Speaker 1: and then Division one, and he offered me the head

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Speaker 1: job at Florida. Excuse me, the assistant job of Florida Atlantic.

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Speaker 1: And I thought I was in the big time. I

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Speaker 1: was gonna make fourteen five and live in both of

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Speaker 1: wis Hewn, Florida. What was that like? And no health

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Speaker 1: and no health benefits, no health benefits. That's that that

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Speaker 1: that that's that's crazy. So so you got a Florida

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Speaker 1: Atlantic in what do you remember about about showing up there?

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Speaker 1: Because your assistant head coach there too, like he made

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Speaker 1: some big promises. You know, beautiful place. Will Chamberlain had

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Speaker 1: a restaurant there. You would see him around town. He

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Speaker 1: would play tennis on our campus with our tennis players,

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Speaker 1: so he was around. You know, Boca is just beautiful.

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Speaker 1: The homes, the mansions, the gated communities. And here I

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Speaker 1: come from living a bubba bar in a in a

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Speaker 1: bunk bed to us twenty one years old to live

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Speaker 1: in a Boca And uh. I was dating my wife's

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Speaker 1: the time, and I said, hey, we need we need

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Speaker 1: more money for me to live down here. Why don't

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Speaker 1: we push up our wedding and we're engaged get married.

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Speaker 1: So we got married in November and she came down

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Speaker 1: and she worked in in the banking industry and made

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Speaker 1: a little bit more money than me and got benefits.

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Speaker 1: So we made it work. Um, how is your team's

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Speaker 1: you know, we want twenty one and twenty games were

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Speaker 1: the two years were Division two and then we went

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Speaker 1: Division one and we would play twelve or fourteen guarantee

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Speaker 1: games a year at just for money, just for the

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Speaker 1: golf team to get new golf balls and baseball. And

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Speaker 1: they didn't have football back then, so we it was murdered.

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Speaker 1: It was murdered there for a while. We were you know,

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Speaker 1: we would played West Virginia one night, then go to

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Speaker 1: pitt and then then bust down to Louisiana played two

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Speaker 1: lane and uh, you know the big the boards game.

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Speaker 1: I think we played Memphis back when they were Memphis

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Speaker 1: State and Penny Hardaway and we got beat I think

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Speaker 1: by fifty six. And uh. But but our second year's

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Speaker 1: Division one program, we were oh twenty one. Finally beat

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Speaker 1: Stepson University up in the land because we were moving

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Speaker 1: into the Trans American Conference back in that day. Beat

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Speaker 1: Stetson and then two nights later we got to Empty

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Speaker 1: State and Les Robinson was a coach there. They were

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Speaker 1: about sixteen and fifteen that year somewhere just about the

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Speaker 1: middle of you know, and we go to Empty State.

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Speaker 1: We're down twenty one a half time. We upset them

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Speaker 1: by by two and we win that game. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: we finished that year two and twenty five, I think,

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Speaker 1: but with a win at an AEC school. What does

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Speaker 1: that like to coach a team that's two and twenty five? Like,

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Speaker 1: how how you know? How do you how do you

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Speaker 1: handle that? How do you handle the emotions of losing?

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Speaker 1: You know? How do you handle you're newly married? Um?

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Speaker 1: The kids like you learned? I mean, like, listen, what

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Speaker 1: is it? You're either winning or you're learning? Right? Do

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Speaker 1: you learn a lot? What do you what do you

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Speaker 1: learn most? You know? We had kids from all over.

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Speaker 1: We had a former Navy seal who was twenty seven

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Speaker 1: years old. We had a couple of guys from the

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Speaker 1: Bahamas who said they were twenty four. They made the

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Speaker 1: thirty four. We had six junior college kids, We had

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Speaker 1: a couple of transfers, but great group and worked hard.

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Speaker 1: But it was tough, you know, because you're going out,

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Speaker 1: you're playing the money to guarantee. We're at Auburn, We're

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Speaker 1: at Memphis, we're at West Virginia. We're duque, and we

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Speaker 1: were at Iowa State. Uh you know, you name it USC.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we we were everywhere. Uh. Coach Radley brought

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Speaker 1: the USC team and played us actually in Florida and

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Speaker 1: West Palm Beat at a convention center, which was nice

355
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Speaker 1: of him to do that. But it was strung. It

356
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Speaker 1: was a struggle. You know. You know, you're you're playing,

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Speaker 1: you're playing at the end of practice, You're you're putting

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Speaker 1: clock on the time on the clock and playing a

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00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:04,679
Speaker 1: game just so you can get a winner, you know,

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Speaker 1: just so a couple of the guys can feel good.

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Speaker 1: But to their credit, they were older, they were more mature,

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Speaker 1: and it was a great place to live and go

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Speaker 1: to campus, to be on campus there, so that part

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Speaker 1: helped out. You know, if we were cold and there

365
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Speaker 1: was twenty degrees and freezing and snow and all, that

366
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Speaker 1: could have been a lot rougher. But coming out of

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Speaker 1: the gym and you know, maybe losing seventy two degrees

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Speaker 1: and the palm trees, that helped. Uh. Okay, So so

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Speaker 1: then you went to what Georgia State Georgia stay. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because we had our son Kyle in Florida and Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was raised. My parents worked, but they

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Speaker 1: worked at the bar. We lived right there. Kelly, my wife,

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Speaker 1: her parents, her mom was home, so we wanted because

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Speaker 1: you're not home, as you know, as a college coach

375
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Speaker 1: in never home, so we we took her off the

376
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Speaker 1: pay broll and she stayed home to take care of Kyle.

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Speaker 1: By that time, I was making nineteen five. I got

378
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Speaker 1: a big race, but we wanted to have another child,

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Speaker 1: which we end up having our daughter in Georgia. So

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Speaker 1: I said, I gotta get a job because I still

381
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Speaker 1: don't have medical benefits. So I got the job at

382
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Speaker 1: Georgia States and assistant for thirty thousand and in full

383
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,359
Speaker 1: medical and that was a big time. And so then

384
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Speaker 1: we had our second child, Kelsey, down in Georgia, and

385
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Speaker 1: then worked out, Um, who'd you work for? Georgia State?

386
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Speaker 1: Carter Wilson and one of the greatest guys I've ever

387
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Speaker 1: been around. Uh. He was an assistant. He was a

388
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Speaker 1: long time high school coach at Decatur High School in

389
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Speaker 1: Georgia and they were usually top twenty five, one of

390
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Speaker 1: the top five teams in USA today. He took over

391
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Speaker 1: from Bob Bob Ridhard, who was an NBA guy with

392
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Speaker 1: the Hawks organization. He was at Georgia State. Carter took over.

393
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Speaker 1: I was with Carter for two years there and then

394
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Speaker 1: the opportunity came. Jim Boone stayed in California after I left,

395
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Speaker 1: was very successful Division too, got the Division one job

396
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Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh, and Robert Morris offered us an opportunity to

397
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Speaker 1: come back home and uh be back with grandparents and

398
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,399
Speaker 1: all that, and it was too hard to pass up.

399
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Speaker 1: So we moved back to Pittsburgh for a while. All right,

400
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Speaker 1: so you come back and now you're in Pittsburgh where

401
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Speaker 1: you grew up nineteen, you're at You're at Bobby, You're

402
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,159
Speaker 1: at You're at Bobby mo. What was the program, Bobby?

403
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 1: You know, program was down a little with Jared dorm

404
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,520
Speaker 1: was there and more successful. I went to ant tournaments

405
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 1: a few times and uh, you know, they had some

406
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,919
Speaker 1: good programs that Rob Morrison, but it hit the some

407
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 1: tough times. They made a change and Jim was brought

408
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 1: in because he was in the area. Ultra successful Division two,

409
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,240
Speaker 1: a couple of Final four's, but it was excusing. Facilities

410
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,120
Speaker 1: weren't great, budget weren't great. You're in the northeast conference.

411
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,240
Speaker 1: But it was a chance that he wanted to be

412
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 1: a Vision one coach and to be in the same

413
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 1: recruiting area where he was. But we were happy to

414
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Speaker 1: go home. But at the time I was making our

415
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 1: thirty six in Georgia State, and I didn't tell Kelly

416
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,040
Speaker 1: I took the job at Robert Morris for thirty and

417
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 1: until we got there and got our first page check.

418
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 1: He goes, what's what we doing. I said, well, we're

419
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,359
Speaker 1: not gonna make as much as we used to, but

420
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Speaker 1: we're home, you know, He said, you know, here we go,

421
00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 1: here we go. But we were bad at the first year.

422
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 1: I think we're three and twenty six, and then we

423
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 1: got some better recruits if we took an LSU transferred

424
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,159
Speaker 1: kid out of Beckley, West Virginia by the name of

425
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 1: Gene Neighbors, and Jean led us to a four years.

426
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 1: He led us from three wins to the conference championship

427
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,639
Speaker 1: game are his senior year against Central Connecticut State that

428
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,119
Speaker 1: year and they beat this obviously the championship and then

429
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 1: we moved on Eastern Michigan after that. Okay, but you're like,

430
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 1: you you do this this thing in fast forward. Okay,

431
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 1: so how do you how do you how do you

432
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 1: go from three wins? Like? What what is the what

433
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 1: is the process like of? I mean, you know because

434
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 1: that building is really really difficult, right, which is really

435
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 1: really difficult, and it's more than just getting one transfer.

436
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 1: You come in, you're at you're at home, and you

437
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 1: know you're you're trying to to to make it work.

438
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 1: What was the Because I'm looking at your status from

439
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 1: Jim Boone, the head coach of four and four and

440
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 1: twenty three? Your first year, right? Second are your eight

441
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:05,879
Speaker 1: and nineteen Keith Jones? And uh is it now feeling?

442
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: Is your your two leading scorers? Right? And then you

443
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 1: didn't anyone anyone eight? Right? Uh? Then your third year

444
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 1: you add in Gene Neighbors to Keith Jones and Kevin

445
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 1: Covert and now you've finished fifteen and twelve and then

446
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: uh and then your fourth year you're you're eighteen and twelve. Um,

447
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 1: what what do you remember about the product? Like? What

448
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 1: was what kind of coach was Jim Boone? What did

449
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 1: he run? How? What was his philosophy? Yeah? Very very

450
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 1: good man to man deef as a coach? Um pack

451
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 1: line defense, so we gapped everything, get pressured the ball

452
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 1: really good health, defenders and emotion. Team really spread the floor,

453
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 1: four guys out, single post, a lot of screening, a

454
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 1: lot of backscreening down a lot, a lot like the

455
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 1: Indiana teens when Alford played Coach Night. You know, we

456
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 1: would go to Indiana every year and watch practice and

457
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: and watch film and ran a lot of Coach Bennett's

458
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,640
Speaker 1: defensive stuff when he was coaching back in Wisconsin back then,

459
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 1: and then a lot of Bob Knight's motion. But we

460
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 1: got some better players, you know, Jane being transferm LSU

461
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 1: Covert was a transfer from akron Um, Chris Hopkins a

462
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,640
Speaker 1: sixth nine Jucoke transfer at a U Santa Fe Community

463
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 1: College of Florida. And we added a City League Player

464
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 1: of the Year from Pittsburgh, Neron Jackson, six five ball

465
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: halling guard. So we had some good players to that

466
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 1: that helped us get better in that league. Okay, So

467
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: then you go to Eastern Michigan. That's in Ypsilanti, Michigan. Yeah,

468
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 1: have you ever been there? I have? I actually ABC

469
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: D Camp was there Uma in the mid nineties in

470
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 1: the in the midnight. Braun did a great job at

471
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: Eastern Michigan. Did do he did do it did do

472
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: a great job. When when you showed up there, what

473
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: was it like, Oh gosh, it was is um, Well,

474
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: we have Antonio Gates. Okay, it's gonna be a Hall

475
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 1: of Fame type, you know, former tight end with the

476
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,640
Speaker 1: charge of right. Hall of Famer. So Antonio Gates is

477
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: on our team. He was the state player of the

478
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: year in football, and UH in Michigan goes to Michigan

479
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 1: State play football for UH coach saman He's academically ineligible.

480
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: He's a partial you know, prof at that time the

481
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: term was used, So he sits out. He leaves Michigan

482
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 1: State to come play basketball at Eastern. So he's there

483
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 1: at that coaching change. He didn't play yet, so we

484
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 1: inherit Antonio and he's a he's practicing with us in

485
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: the spring, and our football coach at the time it

486
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 1: was newly hired, says, this kid's gonna play on Sundays

487
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 1: in football. You know, should come on, you know, is

488
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: he's that good? So we really never get to coach

489
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 1: him because academically there were some things. He just wasn't

490
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: strong right there that semester and he decides to go

491
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: out west to Duco to play basketball. Then the story goes.

492
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: You know, he goes to State and play basketball, leads

493
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 1: up to an Elite eight, and then the rest is history,

494
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: which is funny. Though he worked camp for us that year,

495
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 1: he was still with us, and I'm pretty sure we

496
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: paid him. I'm pretty sure we paid him his campfee.

497
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: But through a mutual friend out in l A years later,

498
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,479
Speaker 1: he's played for the Chargers where he runs into him

499
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: and he said, they mentioned my name. He said, he's

500
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: telling him he still is to be my camp check.

501
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: You never paid him, You know we paid him. We

502
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: paid him. He was joking. I said, you tell Antonio

503
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: he owes me an autographed jersey, and I swear to

504
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: you pray. About six seven days later, I get a

505
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 1: FedEx package here and I got a DANDEGO Chargers autograph

506
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 1: five hanging up in my in my in my office,

507
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: signed by Antonio Gates. Um, okay, so uh so you're

508
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: one in seventeen in League three and twenty five and

509
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: you're like, oh ship, what did we do right? You're

510
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: you're at home in Pittsburgh and now you're in Ypsilanim chicken, Um,

511
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: how do you go about trying to fix it? You

512
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: know it was hard. You know, Eastern didn't have a

513
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 1: great academic reputation, and Eastern Michigan is on the same

514
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: Washington will be all full of ard same road as

515
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: the University of Michigan. You run the big house at

516
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 1: Chrysler Center into the Complications Center in Eastern on the

517
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: same road five miles apart, but your fan base is

518
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: all Michigan. You know, even if Michigan is away at

519
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: Purdue and you're playing East Western at home, they're gonna

520
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: stay home and watch what Michigan on TV. So it's

521
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 1: hard to draw people. The new Complications Center was a

522
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,239
Speaker 1: couple of miles away from the middle of campus. When

523
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: coach Brown was there, they played at the old place

524
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 1: right in the middle campus and he had it well.

525
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: That has some great players. That sweet sixteen run the

526
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,360
Speaker 1: add it was hard to get it go on. MAC

527
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: is a really good league. I kinda take it as

528
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 1: you know, everybody's close to each other about two hours apart.

529
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: Some schools are thirty mints apart, Bowling Green and Toledo

530
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: that you're also trying to stay You're all the same neighborhood,

531
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 1: trying to date the same girl, you know, so you're

532
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: all recruiting the same players, and we just never really

533
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 1: got over the hump there was. It was a hard sale,

534
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 1: but we were there I think five years yet five

535
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: years m gottlieb uh and Dave Pelopovich is joining us

536
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: hard five years? What what what the best part? You know?

537
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 1: I can talk to your dad quite a bit during

538
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: that time. What what do you what do you what

539
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: do you mean like because because my say, I'll tell

540
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: you from the other end what it was like. Okay,

541
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 1: So at this time, you know, I'm done playing in

542
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 1: college and I'm playing overseas whatever, And whenever I'm around

543
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: my dad, you know, he's calling coaches like you I

544
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 1: got I got a guy, you know, and all of

545
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: his guys who were available are better than anybody in

546
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: your program, right, um right, which is like, well why

547
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: are they still available, Bob? But um, you know, like okay,

548
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: so like let's take a um, Marcus Austen was a

549
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: good player for you, right, kid from White Plains, ye ye,

550
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: White New York. Yeah. How do you how do how

551
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: do you go about? What do you what do you

552
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: remember about the recruiting process of a Marcus Austin Well

553
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: was recruiting Marcus Um Where was it Robert Morris. He

554
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: was a White Plains spencer, spencer. Gosh, this high school

555
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: coach was a part type scout with Utah Jazz and

556
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: close with Jeff ben Gunn. The met him at a clinic,

557
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: uh Troy, I mean a white place, New York. And

558
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: so Marcus was six five, just long arms, just built,

559
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: looked like a basketball player, shoot the ball extremely well.

560
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: And sold him on the fact that come to Eastern

561
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: because he was recruited by some of the other MAC

562
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: the CNAs dionas that type. But get him out of

563
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: New York, comes to Eastern playing that facility. And back

564
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 1: then you had some pros, you know, the Bondi wells

565
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: as who came out of the MAC. You had um

566
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: put with his name from o U whose sons playing

567
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 1: now in the NBA A blank right now. But you

568
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 1: had some really good players coming out of MAC who

569
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: went on to playing the NBA. UM. So we sold

570
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: him on that he came. He had a good visit there.

571
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: The facility was really good with a practice jim at

572
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: the time, which not a lot of people had. So

573
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 1: it looked good and we sold them to come. And

574
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 1: Brandon hunter By the way, are you talking about Brandon Hunter? Yeah? Yeah,

575
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: And so the MAC, you know, the MAC has some

576
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: great coaches back in the day. You know, you had

577
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 1: you had Kim Buckley who was at Ball State who

578
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: had that run in Hawaii will beat what Kansas and

579
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: Duke confecutive days or so, and then you had Dockets

580
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: at Bowling Green. You had j Smith at Central, Larry

581
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: Hunter and Charlie Coles at Miami and ou um Dan

582
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,719
Speaker 1: Hipshire who did a great job at Akron. I mean

583
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,959
Speaker 1: there there were some really good coaches in that way,

584
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: old school coaches. Yeah, old school coaches is right, right,

585
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: So again like this is the what are the because

586
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: you guys did get better, you know, like you didn't

587
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: get it, we got better? Yeah, I mean you went

588
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: from terrible to solid. And then obviously the last last

589
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: year when when you know you're you're in the fifth

590
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: year of a five year run and you're struggling in

591
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: a really good league, like are you already looking for

592
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: the next job? Like what is it? And and you also,

593
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: my brother's has been in kind of this. You hadn't

594
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: been a head coach yet, so it's not like you

595
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: can Hey, I got a head coaching experience. Were the

596
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: conversations like between you and your wife. Yeah, and at

597
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: that time, you know that last year we started out

598
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: I believe ten and three, we had a post player

599
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: of Chicago the named John Bowler who really became a

600
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: good player at Eastern Michigan six eight jr. Average thirteen

601
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: and six by the end of the year. What did

602
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: you get hurt? Is that what happened he anated his

603
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: disc in his back, that he was done, and then

604
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: we went down here after that because he was the

605
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: hard and soul of us and really tough. He's assistant

606
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: out Wisconsin Milwaukee Universit Milwaukee. He's an assistant there now.

607
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: But it was really good player for us. Recruited him

608
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: going back and recruited him and got him basically to

609
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: almost commit on September ten. The next day I drove

610
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: to Monty, Indiana, the recruited kid, and woke up in

611
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: a marry out there and was on the treadmill and

612
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: the TV's on, and that was when the towers were hit.

613
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: I'll never forget that. I was a Bowler's house the

614
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: night before, and then we brought him on a campus.

615
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: A few weeks later, they drove over and he committed.

616
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: But you always asked where you are, you know, the

617
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: tenth or eleventh, especially on the leventh. I was in

618
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: Chicago a bowler on the tenth and eleventh, and months

619
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: the recruiting when when our world changed. But uh, yeah,

620
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: So we had conversation with my wife and I always

621
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: wanted to be a Division three head coach. There's a

622
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: ton of Division three schools in Pennsylvania and Ohio. I

623
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: probably be a great thing to be a coach and

624
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: raise your family and be home and not the the

625
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: recruiting that's crazy at Division one level. And I applied

626
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: to some Division three jobs and a lot of times

627
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: you get through the interviews and the answer was we

628
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: didn't want a Division one assistant. We when somebody came

629
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: up and I said, when I played Division three, I

630
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: started Division two, I know your Division one assistant and

631
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: you'll leave right away, And and that was I was

632
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: upset by that because I didn't get some opportunities. So

633
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: then you're wondering what's what's next. You know, where do

634
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: you go next? And uh, development relationship with the Michigan

635
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: staff because we were right there and down the road.

636
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: We played them, and then when things didn't um keep

637
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: us at Eastern. I was able to just move down

638
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: the road and take part in Tommy Amaker staff at Michigan.

639
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: So it's interesting because you know, Jim was somebody that

640
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: you had known for a long time, right, I mean,

641
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: you're going back to the Pittsburgh days. You'd work with

642
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,479
Speaker 1: him at Robert Morris. You work with him at Eastern,

643
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: So that's like nine years working with the same guy.

644
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, you guys are like, you know, um, you know,

645
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: fingers in a hand or I don't even know whatever

646
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: expression you wanted. Tommy you had, you know, obviously sharing

647
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: the same state. Obviously that people know that, you know, balling,

648
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: you can recruit. But he's a duke guy. You know,

649
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: they're they're they're different. You show up at Michigan first,

650
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: How did he offer you the job? How did that

651
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: go down? Well, you know, he had an opening and

652
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: it was it was a operations guy, assistance to the

653
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: head coach type operations udministrator role. The first year I

654
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: was there and he had an opening, somebody moved on

655
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: and through a mutual friend and getting to know him,

656
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: and he calls and says, hey, let's get together. And

657
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: as you know Tommy, he's really laid back at casual.

658
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: And Tommy said, hey, just you know, don't dress up,

659
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: just come over. Let's let's get together four o'clock Tuesday afternoon.

660
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: And you know, I show up in a a in

661
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: a blue suit with amazing blue tie, right, and you know,

662
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: he said, well, I really appreciate that, and that's what's

663
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: that's what you do. And we talked for a couple

664
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: of wires, just kind of hit it off. And next

665
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: day I'm up in at the house on the treadmill

666
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: and he caught the phone number comes in and not

667
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: its him and get off for quick and he goes, hey,

668
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: you're ready to be at Wolverine, and I see, yes,

669
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,239
Speaker 1: I am. So it was awesome, you know, and they

670
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: got a chance to go. Instead of turning out the

671
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: driveway right to go to Eastern, I turned left to

672
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: go to ann Arbor and it was it was great.

673
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: So you didn't move. No, I didn't move because we

674
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: lived right in between an Arburn and he said they're

675
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: five miles apart. We were right in the middle. So

676
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: instead of going two and a half miles one way,

677
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: I went two and a half miles the other way.

678
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: So and I guess you're making more money. Yes, yes, yes,

679
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: making a little bit more money. And that's the greatest

680
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: deal ever. You you go, you go from, you go

681
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: from And I know that at the time, I've I've

682
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: had long discussions with Tommy about it is. You know

683
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: at the time that they were resource depleted. Right. People

684
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: don't understand what Michigan. You know, Michigan was all reputation,

685
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: um and uh you know, on the other hand, you

686
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: know it's still there's still huge expectant, huge expectations. But

687
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: you go from no resources, you know, really competitive league

688
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: with with a name that doesn't resonate to Michigan and

689
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: Tommy Americer Uh so your first year was your first year?

690
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: Was was which which season it was? Yeah? Okay, so

691
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,959
Speaker 1: oh four oh five. You do have some good players, right,

692
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: you have Chris Hunter, you have Corton Sims, you have

693
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: Dion Harris. Okay, but it's still remember they're they're still

694
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: rebuilding from n c A probation. So but again, you've

695
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: worked with one I for nine years. I'm fascinated by this. Yeah,

696
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: what what was different about Tommy Amerk or his style,

697
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: his coaching? He is uh, he he's a really good coach,

698
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: really good coach, but a better person. He's unbelievable. Unbelievable

699
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 1: because you could have a custodian walk in and he's

700
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: in the biggest meeting or film session, whatever, and a

701
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: custodian will walk in and he'll say a low to him,

702
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: you know, or he'll thank him for taking the trash out.

703
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: He's unbelievable in that regard. Thanks everybody, appreciates everybody. His

704
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: preparation was really good. His relationship with the players was

705
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: above and beyond. I mean the respect and the discipline.

706
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: We're doing it without custing, cursing, throwing things and all that.

707
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: He was just he he demanded and he got the

708
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: room attention as soon as he walked. And he was

709
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: really good. I mean he was. It was amazing. It

710
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: was amazing how he was and it was just a

711
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: joy to be around. I always tell him I wish

712
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: it was because he and I are still close to

713
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 1: this day. I wish it was longer, but I learned

714
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: so much from they're still to this day. You know,

715
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: Jim and I are really still close. And the coaches

716
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: I've worked with for Tommy, I always tease him that

717
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 1: whenever I'm make an important decision. I said, I always say,

718
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 1: what would what would the agent? You know, what would Tam?

719
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: And he goes, come on, I said, I always do,

720
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: and he was he was unbelievable about that. You know,

721
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: we're going that year. We we start out six and

722
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: two in the Big Ten and we're ranked sixteenth in

723
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: the country. Then we have some injuries and we go

724
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: two and six on the back end of the Big Ten,

725
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: finished eight and eight and we're the last team out.

726
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: So we get the number one seed in the in

727
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: the n I T and we end up going to

728
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: the championship game where we lose to and all the

729
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: Baltman in South Carolina. But as we're heading to uh

730
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 1: we're heading to New York for the final four in

731
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: the n I T and we're on a charter getting

732
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: ready to get on the charter, the families came. Our

733
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: son Kyle the time I believe maybe have been eighth grade,

734
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: seventh grade with a big two guy and J. J.

735
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: Reddick was his guy. And Tommy walks on the plane

736
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: with a with a bag and he throws at a

737
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: Kyle and he says, here, but don't open until we

738
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: planned and Kyle's nervous when he opposites an autographed J. J.

739
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: Reddick shirt. You know, to this day he still has,

740
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: you know, twenty seven hour works for USA Basketball. It's

741
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: still at the J. J. Reddick shirt. Because probably was

742
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 1: just so thoughtful of everybody nature. Everybody was comfortable, everything

743
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 1: was in place, and game big. The bigger the game,

744
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: the better he was in the locker room, the pre game.

745
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: He he was really really good. I thought, what was

746
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: it like when he was let go? You know, we

747
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: just the second year and we weren't as good that

748
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: year and we uh and and I think there was

749
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: a story they wrote nan Arbor and coach b Line, Um,

750
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: we're beating Ohio State at home, their number one the

751
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 1: country and they had that remarkable team with Oden Conley,

752
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: and I think we're up six and we get a

753
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: dunk at the rim with Courtney Simms, who had a

754
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: cup of coffee for some teams in the NBA. And

755
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: Simms misses the dunk and they're going to run and

756
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: we lose to Ohio. Stayed at home and you win

757
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: that game, where in the nj A tournament everything's fine.

758
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 1: You lose that game, and that we were the first

759
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: game in the big Torny and to lose a second

760
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: one and we go to the n I t we

761
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: win the first game at home. I think we tell

762
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: State that you're at home. Then we go to Callahaska

763
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: and play Florida State and we lose. On a Thursday,

764
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: come home on Friday. Or in the office Saturday morning,

765
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: in the shower early, I'm never forgetting ready to go

766
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: to the office. My wife hollers in since coaches on

767
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,919
Speaker 1: the phone, and that's never good. I get off. He goes,

768
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: you know, bad newsday. You know. A d brought me

769
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 1: in this morning, called me and I just met him

770
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: and he let me go. He goes, can you can

771
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: you come in? I said, yeah, I'm on my way,

772
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: and you know, and I felt so bad for him

773
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,919
Speaker 1: because he didn't deserve that. He said, our locker room leaked.

774
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: We had to practice in a rec center. Cart Chrysler

775
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: was terrible. Officers were a mile away. It was just bad.

776
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: It wasn't worth Now, well, no, I mean, that's that's

777
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: the thing is. You didn't get to and I, you know,

778
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: and and and talking and like look, I would readily

779
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: admit I was at ESPN at the time and I

780
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 1: was very early in my career at ESPN and before

781
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: see that ESPN with you and Tom Brennon, that was

782
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: the best. You know, it's it's it's I've I've never

783
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: I've never talked about this and this it's it's it's

784
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up. So what's fascinating about this?

785
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: And this is where you know, like I don't know,

786
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: I struggle sometimes with our business. So I felt like

787
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: Tom Brennan was an absolute prince. I mean, he's he's funny,

788
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 1: he's affable, he had he had no ego. Now he

789
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: was put in a in a situation where which is

790
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: really hard, where he had coached at one place I

791
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: think for eighteen years. Okay, so and you know this

792
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: when when you're at Vermont for eighteen years, it's not

793
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: like you know, you don't know all the players, you

794
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: don't know all the like. Not only not only he's

795
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: a coach at Vermont, but he's also doing a radio show.

796
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: So when he wasn't coaching, he was doing his radio show.

797
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: And then he's like the mayor of Burlington, Vermont. So

798
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,439
Speaker 1: when he got there, you know, like his first couple

799
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 1: of years, he struggled with like he didn't he didn't

800
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: know all the players. And I've been doing it forever,

801
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: you know, like as a kid and growing up, and

802
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: I had I had only covered really national stuff. Uh

803
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: at something like his whole thing was like he not

804
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: only did he sometimes not know about every player, but

805
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: he didn't give a shit and it it worked. And

806
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: our problem was like our bosses at the time, the

807
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: boss of the time, We're like, well, Tommy, only here's

808
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: I swear to god, this actually happened. I had a

809
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: boss who came in after a halftime segment and he said, Doug,

810
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: you talked for a minute and forty two seconds. Tommy,

811
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: you talked for forty seven seconds. That's not acceptable. And

812
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: I said, um, I will not share this gentleman's name

813
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: because I actually like him. I said, what's your point.

814
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: He's like, well, you're dominated the conversation. I said, no,

815
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: I don't actually see it that way. I said, was

816
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: it good? He's like, well, that's not the point, and

817
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: go no, that actually is that. The point of television

818
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: is were you entertained? Did you change the channel? It's

819
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: halftime right If I'm watching the game, it goes to

820
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 1: halftime I gotta be really fucking entertained, or I'm gonna

821
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: change the channel, um and watch a different game, because

822
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: there's a million games on. I was like, were you entertainings? Like,

823
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: that's not the point that you're You're missing the point.

824
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 1: Tom's deal was. He would say, you know, like Dave

825
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 1: Revson was our host, and Rever would come in and

826
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: and Rever would say, TV, what you know, they got

827
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 1: a big game tonight, it's Duke versus you know, North Carolina.

828
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: What would you tell your team? And and Tommy would

829
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: say like, like I tell him, Oh, let's go have

830
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: some fun. We'll go have a stake afterwards. Who gives

831
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: a ship? Right? Like he would literally say that on

832
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: TV and we'd be laughing, and I go into some

833
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: basketball stuff and it worked. But it's really amazing on

834
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: how often times I thought, I still believe to this

835
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: day Tom Brandon should have been should have been the

836
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: um the league corso of of of college basketball and

837
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: for what ever reason? And you know, I mean, it

838
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 1: just it broke broke my heart because they never told

839
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: him anything and then they didn't renew him. And you know,

840
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: I mean and all candor, I had people tell me

841
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 1: about you know, you made Tom look bad, Like no,

842
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 1: we played off each other like I was the bad

843
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: former player dork who pushed the envelope and he was

844
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: the old coach who just had a great time. I

845
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: thought it was really I appreciate you saying I thought

846
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: it was really good. I love it. Yeah, I love love. Yeah.

847
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: We we used to talk time, and I knew Tom

848
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: a little bit, you know, but I thought it was great.

849
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: I really did. That was so disappointed, Dave. He's as

850
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 1: authentic a person, like as a good dude as you

851
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 1: will ever as you ever find. And I listen, and

852
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 1: here's just another little quick aside, because I know basketball

853
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 1: people listen to this. Pot Uh. They named the court

854
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: after him in the old gym. They opened a new

855
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 1: arena this year, and his name is not on the core.

856
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 1: That's wrong, man, Like Vermont's not Vermont without Tom brendon court.

857
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: And you know, like they're doing a great job there.

858
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: His his name needs to be so so so here's

859
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: here's what I'll full disclosure. I'm on ESPN. I remember

860
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: Tom got fired and Tommy got fired, and and what

861
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 1: I said was like, look, there's I don't know seventy

862
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:28,399
Speaker 1: three programs at the you know, Big twelve, Big ten,

863
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: sec A C C and and uh what what what

864
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: league am my forgetting Big East at the time, and

865
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: they were one of you guys were one of like

866
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: two or three that hadn't made the tournament during his

867
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: time there. And I said, I think you know that's

868
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: really unfortunately why Tom lost lost his job. But in

869
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: in in in his defense, like unless you were at

870
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: Michigan and understood one with the sanctions did and to like,

871
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: you don't get to see the new arena, you get

872
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 1: to see the new practicacility. You don't get to Benett

873
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: like you build all this ship up and then they

874
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: whack you. And you know, look, the guy wanted sten

875
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: Hall and the guys wanted Harvard where no one has

876
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: ever won before. And so if right, amazing, like amazing,

877
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,919
Speaker 1: So just the idea, the idea that he wasn't going

878
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: to turn the corner at Michigan and be Line did

879
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 1: an amazing job because he's a great coach. Right, This

880
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: isn't an anti b Line rant, but it is fascinating

881
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: on how you get that new arena and they have

882
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: expected like let let the guy at least coach in

883
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: the new building before you whack him, You're you're exactly right.

884
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: I mean, what he's done at Harvard and brought to

885
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: he's he's raised the whole level to play in the

886
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,919
Speaker 1: IVY League. Because of that, the whole the whole league

887
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: has changed, The whole league has changed because of And

888
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 1: I called their first their first win ever in the NT.

889
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: I was like amazing, And you have you would, I

890
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: mean obviously like, hi, yeah, yeah, I was. I was.

891
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: It was Ron Revard. He played Laurent Revard at the

892
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 1: four and and Steve Alford would play his two bigs

893
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: and there the four men couldn't go out, couldn't go

894
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,720
Speaker 1: out and cover Revard, and Revard hit like four threes

895
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: and New Mexico got super super tight, and they were

896
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: a really good club. And uh what I mean it

897
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: wasn't just a win, it was a coaching win. Like

898
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: I felt like he coached his way to a win

899
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: by finding one mismatch on the floor that he was

900
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: able to exploit. Yeah, you know, in in in the

901
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: in that New Mexico team was really good. They were

902
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: twelve in the country. Last month, West Conference Game of

903
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: the Year, we played him here at home, down early

904
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: and beat them by two, and we played a kid

905
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: out of Roswell, New Mexico came off the bench, rus marko.

906
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: Lesinski who was under size four or five, and we

907
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 1: did that. He made five threes against them that helped

908
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,439
Speaker 1: us get back in the game and then eventually beat

909
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: them and was there last regular season game. Then they

910
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: went on to win him out West Herman and then

911
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: you know, Harvard beats him in the n c AS

912
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: with a great win. How did you get there? Force,

913
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: how did that happen? Well? I um, uh, So we

914
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: get released, they go through the process of what they're doing.

915
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: They hired coach b Line and he comes in and uh,

916
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: I was a member of the staff. He offered me

917
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: a contract to stay and we're gonna go months to

918
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 1: month and uh because a couple of his assistance from

919
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 1: West Virginia didn't come yet. They were involved in head

920
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: coaching jobs and so as a coach, I really appreciate it.

921
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: You know, married to children, I need a job, I said,

922
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 1: But all due respect, I'm gonna called coach Amaker because

923
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: my loyalties to him and see if it's okay with him,

924
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: and he goes. I respect that, I really do so

925
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: I called coach Amaker. He goes, yeah, Dave, you gotta

926
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: do that. If you could stay on, if I can

927
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: help you whatever, you need to do that. So I

928
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: stayed on um with coach b Line. We went through

929
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: some recruiting, did some workouts. I think the thing in

930
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: press because be Line. He called me on Easter morning.

931
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: He was back in West Virginia. You know, he's a

932
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: big Catholic churchgoer every day and he called me right

933
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: before he's going to church. I think it's picks in

934
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: the morning and my phone is always on. He cause

935
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: I pick up and he was, what are you picking

936
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 1: up for him? I wanted to leave you a message

937
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: at the Eastern He wanted to run something by me,

938
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: and I answered it and he came back. He was,

939
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, you know, picking up and sill, coach,

940
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: you gotta be on. You know, you gotta be on.

941
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 1: But we worked other He was great. He was great,

942
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 1: and then I didn't feel I didn't feel like a

943
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 1: part of it. You know, when people are coming by

944
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: the office now and you're gonna turn this thing around,

945
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: You're gonna do this, You're gonna do that. You know,

946
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: the players will say something different to right and all

947
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: that you kind of feel like that step shot right.

948
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: And Uh, if I could have stayed, I you know,

949
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: if I didn't have anything else, I probably would have stayed. Um,

950
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: but then, uh, this job, that's a hard that's a

951
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: hard deal because so so my my my brother. This

952
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 1: is kind of interesting about the same time. You know,

953
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: my brother was a state for eight years and um

954
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: and so, and I should probably have him on to

955
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: I had to tell this story, but he's gonna maybe,

956
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 1: I don't know, he'll be pissed. So he he had

957
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: developed a relationship with Ben Braun um, you know, on

958
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: recruiting trail, and Ben had a relationship with my dad.

959
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,479
Speaker 1: And so he loved San Diego and San Diego State,

960
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: and he loved working for Steve Fisher. But people have

961
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: to remember at the time, Brian Dutcher Steve Fisher's right

962
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: hand man, so he was that was whenever coach Fisher

963
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: decided to retire and Mark Fisher was on the staff.

964
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: This is before Mark was diagnosed with a l S.

965
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: And so Greg was like, you know, look into no

966
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: one at that point had the Mountain West hadn't blown

967
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 1: up to the point where guys were getting head coaching jobs.

968
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 1: He had to get to the PAC ten and he

969
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: had a relationship. He met his wife when he was

970
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: at Sack State and she lived in San Francisco, so

971
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 1: they always loved northern California. So Ben Brown and tried

972
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 1: to hire him a couple of times. Over he goes

973
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: and takes the job, and then seven months in they

974
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 1: finished in ninth place. And you know, I lose on

975
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: like a crazy tip in at u c l A

976
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: and they finished in ninth place with two pros at

977
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: cal and the league gets like sevent teams in or something. Anyway,

978
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: Braun gets fired and he ended up staying with Mike

979
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: Montgomery being the only guy. And you know, he he

980
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: ran the benefit of Monty didn't come from another program,

981
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 1: so he didn't have a list of assistance. And Monty

982
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,399
Speaker 1: hadn't been recruiting for four years, you know, so Greg

983
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: was a recruiting coordinator. But but and then you know,

984
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 1: when Monty retired, Conzo kept him for a couple of months.

985
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 1: So I I know the feeling of what you're saying,

986
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: where you're you're kind of hanging around and you're you're

987
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: part of it, but you're not part of it, and

988
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: especially when you get fired that all the all, everybody

989
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 1: who used to be your friend is now coming in saying, ah,

990
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: you'll be better than than the last guy. Like wait, wait,

991
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: I was here when the last guy was there. I

992
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: we weren't bad. Like say, it's a okay, So how

993
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,959
Speaker 1: did the Air Force thing take place? Well, then Jeff

994
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: Dalec leaves and goes to Colorado leaves, the Air Force

995
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: goes to Colorado. They go through a long time of hiring,

996
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: not hiring, and then they end up hiring. Uh Jeff

997
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: Rentals at the time, who was an assistant here under Bidelic,

998
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,439
Speaker 1: but went to Colorado with him, and then they brought

999
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: him back. I've known Jeff, you know, from back in

1000
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: camp days when he was an assistant at Randolph Making

1001
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: back in the nineties. I had to mut your friends

1002
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: and knew him and we stayed in touch always through

1003
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: the years. You know, you talked to coaches, and he

1004
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: reached out and said he had an opening. He's looking

1005
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: at some guys. Would I'd be interested? I said yes.

1006
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: Another couple of days he said, you know, he's still interested. Yes,

1007
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 1: another couple of days we interviewed on the phone. Um,

1008
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: he offered me a job on the phone, and I

1009
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: took it. You know, we never lived you know, this

1010
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: far west. Never I was out here in for the

1011
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 1: final four when when UNLB beat Duke and that was

1012
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: the only time I've been in Denver this area and

1013
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: came out and then uh they said here here we go.

1014
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: So we moved on out and and that's where we've

1015
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,760
Speaker 1: been since. Okay, So, but but the Air Force Academy

1016
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 1: is it is a different place. I mean, obviously, Colorado

1017
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:08,359
Speaker 1: Springs is is is amazing, it is beautiful. Um uh

1018
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 1: and and and the whole academy lifestyle is very different.

1019
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: And what people I think forget about buzz is you

1020
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 1: know it was it was Joe Scott who got it

1021
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: going right. And I remember when Joe Scott first kind

1022
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: of got it going at Air Force before they really won.

1023
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: For you guys, one my brother is like, hey, you

1024
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:30,919
Speaker 1: know who's gonna be good in a couple of years

1025
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: is the Air Force Because he's like, look, they actually

1026
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: have good players, and the Princeton stuff works. They're playing

1027
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: in altitude, and you know everybody else has everybody else

1028
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 1: in this league is taking you know a lot of

1029
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: a lot of chances with with transfers and like they

1030
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: just have good, hard working kids. And I'm telling you,

1031
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: he's like, I bet they make the n S A

1032
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 1: tournament a couple of years and and and and this

1033
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,399
Speaker 1: was like very very early on, and I was covering

1034
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: the league at the time. And then um and then

1035
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: Mooney got the job, and it kind of it kind

1036
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 1: of took off. You. You didn't get there until kind

1037
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 1: of the tail end of it, right, And and part

1038
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: of it was Buzz as good a coach. As Buzz

1039
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,839
Speaker 1: was a very good coach, he wasn't really a Princeton guy,

1040
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: so he kind of ran some of it, but didn't

1041
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: have the same passion for it. And he didn't have

1042
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 1: a real passion for recruiting. So I felt like he

1043
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 1: didn't leave you with the cupboard full. Not that Air

1044
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: Force is an easy place to recruit to anyway, what

1045
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: do you so, But then there's the academy. So you

1046
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: show up. What's the first day of work like at

1047
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: the Air Force Academy for a guy who's been small schools,

1048
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: big schools all in the Midwest, You know, you come

1049
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: through the gate. First of all, you've got to show

1050
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: credential to get through the gate, so they're checking. Uh,

1051
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: they you know, pop the trunk and make sure you

1052
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: don't have anything because you're not on the you don't

1053
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: have a government card yet because you're not through the

1054
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 1: process though you're as a visitor. And they, you know,

1055
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: I'm scared them and good innesscrations. What are they gonna do?

1056
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 1: And then you drive up to the cad me and

1057
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 1: and and and it's you know, you see students walking

1058
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: around in uniforms. Uh, they're marching their business oriented because

1059
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: they're going from one class the next in seven minutes. Uh,

1060
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: their heads are down. The freshman can't look at some

1061
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: people or salute. You have to salute everybody. They can't

1062
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: walk on the middle of the walkways. You have to

1063
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 1: walk on the rubble strips on the side. They can't

1064
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 1: carry their backpack me on the back, they gotta hold

1065
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 1: it and run and said what are we doing? And

1066
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: where didn't I get myself into? And then we have

1067
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,720
Speaker 1: a first team meeting and they're great guys. They're great guys.

1068
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 1: And they came off that final four run in the

1069
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: n I T. But they were all graduating. Jake Bertie

1070
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: led that group. They're all seniors, are all leaving, so

1071
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: see younger guys coming up. And then okay, work out

1072
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 1: tomorrow when we go one morning, lady, No, no, we

1073
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 1: can't get them till two thirty. And we got him

1074
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: till four thirty unless it's a military day. And then

1075
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: and then you're schedule on me. Wow. And then your

1076
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: list of recruits and you're calling up kids and they

1077
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,839
Speaker 1: have three division and three offers and you and then

1078
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 1: they decided not to even play basketball, but they still

1079
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 1: won't come through the academ because they don't want to

1080
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: do the militant and oh my gosh, you're just getting

1081
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 1: nose and nose and those And at that time, your

1082
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 1: death put me on a kid six seven kid out

1083
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: of California, and I really liked him, going to u

1084
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: W Milwaukee and had a good career. And I can't

1085
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: think of his name right now. And because he called

1086
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: and we got in touch with him, and he was

1087
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: a tough kid, can shoot the ball six seven rebounds,

1088
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,320
Speaker 1: and he came to visit and then there's just no

1089
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: way he wanted to do this, and he ends up

1090
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: going Milwaukee and had a pretty good career there. And

1091
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 1: again I can't remember his name, but you know, we're

1092
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 1: just missing out on guys. And then the guys were

1093
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: taking We're beating you know, we're beating uh goodness, Grace,

1094
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 1: just Texas Tyler. We're beating uh uh kel San Diego,

1095
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: and we'll beat the two's and and everybody else in

1096
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 1: the league is getting you know who they're getting. And

1097
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: I said, oh my gosh, this this thing is not

1098
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:54,879
Speaker 1: gonna beat you know, because we line up and play,

1099
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: we're not gonna have the guys that they have. So

1100
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: it's a difference. Remind me. So you're there for four

1101
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: were years? And then did did Jeff get fired me?

1102
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: To year? Did he resign me to hear what happened? Yeah,

1103
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 1: the ministration came in. We were struggling winning some games

1104
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe coaching tactics or whatever may be.

1105
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 1: Someone likes, someone doesn't like and cut me off. Art

1106
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: come in one day and he's in a meeting in

1107
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 1: his office across the hall from me and the A D.

1108
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 1: And it's just n A D comes out and he says,

1109
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: you got a minute. I come in. He goes, I

1110
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: just got five. I said what what? And then selfish,

1111
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: you know, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, you know, my

1112
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: son is ready to go to college. I gotta pay

1113
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: for college my daughter. You know, I'm thinking, what am

1114
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 1: I gonna do? You know here, I am all the

1115
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: way out here, not a lot of contacts out this way,

1116
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:42,839
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking. And he said, they're going to call

1117
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,320
Speaker 1: you upstairs in fifteen minutes and then you interrum head coach,

1118
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: and and go do it and hopefully maybe they'll keep you.

1119
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 1: And he goes, I apologize, but whatever reason, they're going

1120
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:53,800
Speaker 1: in a different directions. And I said, oh my gosh.

1121
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,439
Speaker 1: And so it happened. Back then we had to mount

1122
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: West network, you know, and so there was things on

1123
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 1: t V that day. They interviewed our players. Some of

1124
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 1: our players were a little bit fractured. Uh, fractured there

1125
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 1: at the time, guys going different ways and and uh.

1126
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:10,840
Speaker 1: And I said, oh my gosh, So here we go.

1127
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,839
Speaker 1: And we'd even practice that day, said just clear your heads.

1128
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: And then our first game was against Boys and State

1129
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: that Saturday. That we has our byway. We just gotta

1130
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 1: be to call our state the game prior to and

1131
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 1: Jeff was ejected late in the game for a second

1132
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 1: technical and I don't think that anything to do with it,

1133
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 1: but it didn't show well on TV and uh um. Actually,

1134
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 1: my son was a freshman's time. He was a manager

1135
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 1: for ten miles that called our state. So he's in

1136
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: the locker room videotape in the game they're up twenty ten.

1137
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: Mileston's another manager in to go get Kyle out because

1138
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 1: I coached the last what level means of the gaek

1139
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 1: so he can be on the floor and we lose.

1140
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 1: We're off Sunday. H They made that decision on Monday,

1141
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,399
Speaker 1: and then we played boy G that thurday, got beat.

1142
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: We got to Wyoming the next Wednesday, and we coach

1143
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 1: the best there is and we go up there and

1144
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:58,359
Speaker 1: went down level nothing to start the game. I think

1145
00:55:58,440 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 1: I accept to myself we will be the first thing

1146
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: in the college basketball never scored the bath. But wait,

1147
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: but what what So this is your first game as

1148
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: head coach, second game, second, we lose the boy the

1149
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: first game, okay, So so so again you're you're doing

1150
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: that thing. Okay, you head coach for twenty years at

1151
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 1: this point. Yeah, yeah, So it's your first game as

1152
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 1: interim head coach and you're taking on Boise State. Good program,

1153
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 1: well coached, okay, and so what what do you like,

1154
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,839
Speaker 1: what is that like to have you waited your whole

1155
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: life and your thought, I'll be a D three head

1156
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 1: coach now the head Hoorce and Air Force Academy in

1157
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 1: the middle of the year. What what what? What do

1158
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: you remember about that first game? About that? Like that

1159
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 1: is my the especial There's no bigger move in the

1160
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: country than the eighteen inches from assistant coach to head coach.

1161
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: What was that? Like? You know, you're worried about everything, everything,

1162
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: everything pre game, meal, warm up is gonna be okay?

1163
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 1: You know, substitutions and what do I do here? Timeouts?

1164
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: What do I do? Your everything? Your head spinning? And

1165
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 1: the game was on CBS Sports. Coach Lapis at the

1166
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,879
Speaker 1: game and he walked in the office before the game, uh,

1167
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 1: and said, hey, how are you doing? And he talks

1168
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 1: about five ten man is I really respected that? He said,

1169
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: they just do what you do. Be who you are.

1170
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: It can't be anybody else. And enjoy it. And he

1171
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: said that because there's only three D some of these

1172
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: out there right now, and you got one of them.

1173
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: He said, enjoy it. And so we go out there

1174
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 1: and we get off the good start and we got

1175
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: to lead early seventeen twelve. I remember, and then they

1176
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 1: take the lead at halftime. In the second half, we

1177
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: were exhausted just everything that went on. They were better

1178
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,919
Speaker 1: on us first and foremost, but then everything that week

1179
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: that transpired, our guys were gassed and U So we

1180
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: end up losing that game and here we go. Now

1181
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: we gotta reset, recharge in here on. Okay, Wait, so

1182
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: you lose the Wait you wait your whole professional career

1183
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: for this opportunity, you know, do you remember? Like your

1184
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: wife said, like are you thinking, because because here's here's

1185
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 1: I'll give you my a quick personal So like, I

1186
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: coached au basketball and I've you know, I've I've coached

1187
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: in different tournaments. So I coached the Maccabi Games team

1188
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: in Israel, and we do work out the summer before.

1189
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: We do workouts and tryouts, and I feel like, all right,

1190
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 1: Like it just felt normal running a practice and I'd

1191
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: seen my dad, dude, I've seen a million practice. I

1192
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: felt like I felt like my offensive philosophy was sound. Defensively,

1193
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 1: I was a little you know, how you guard different actions,

1194
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:29,959
Speaker 1: I was a little I had more philosophy than seeing

1195
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: a play out. I'll never forget. We we practiced for

1196
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: a couple of days in uh in In at Fairfield University.

1197
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: Then we fly at a Tel Aviv. We practiced for

1198
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: a couple of days, and then we scrimmaged the under

1199
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: twenty national team. And we have some guys a little

1200
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 1: bit older. We got one year old kid one twenty two,

1201
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 1: but the rest of you know, you're it's age appropriate,

1202
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 1: but you know, I mean that this is a national team.

1203
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: They played together forever. So we go out there and

1204
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: I start two big guys because I'm an idiot, and

1205
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 1: we're down eighteen two to start the game. And I

1206
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: remember sitting there going and I had interviewed for the

1207
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 1: Oklahoma State job before that summer before but you know,

1208
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 1: before and you know, I had full confidence that I

1209
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: could hire the people that knew what I didn't know.

1210
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: But I I, you know, it's basketball, you know what

1211
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 1: you're doing. And I remember thinking to myself, holy shit,

1212
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 1: I don't know what the hell I'm doing here, right,

1213
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: And I made some adjustments, so we got competitive and whenever,

1214
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: and and I felt like by by the time I

1215
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,919
Speaker 1: walked out the door that day, I didn't have full

1216
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: confidence that I would win the tournament, but I was like,

1217
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know as little as I thought when

1218
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: we were down eighteen to two. But the eighteen to

1219
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: two was alarming. I'm wondering when you walked out of

1220
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: Clune that day and uh, and you lost your first game,

1221
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: was there any holy sh it? Maybe I can't do

1222
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 1: this so I can't fix this thing? Yeah, you have.

1223
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 1: You have that doubt because it's something to happen the game,

1224
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 1: like you're saying, and maybe a lineup under you have

1225
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 1: DEFENSEI assignment you don't do. And you're thinking, I'm thinking myself,

1226
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 1: it's a lot harder than you think. You know. You know,

1227
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: sometimes you sit on that other seat and you have

1228
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: all the answers hell you Oh yeah, I mean, hey,

1229
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: I'm well, I'm broadcasting game. I know everything everybody's supposed

1230
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: to do. And I said, not only did I not

1231
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 1: have the answers, I ain't even know the questions. Um,

1232
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 1: And I said to myself, I love to just win

1233
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: one Division one game, one Division one game. That would

1234
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 1: be awesome. You know, here's a kid who grew up

1235
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 1: in an apartment above a bar, and I didn't have

1236
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: a lot, and now I'm coaching this Air Force cad

1237
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 1: me and I never can get in here because I'm

1238
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 1: not smart enough. And if we can win one game,

1239
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 1: that would be awesome, you know. And so you you

1240
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 1: keep and we had a great staff that was together

1241
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 1: and and and you don't want to change a lot,

1242
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: but yet there's some things you may need a tweak right,

1243
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: and you don't have a little bit of time to

1244
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 1: change it. So then we lose that game, and they said,

1245
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 1: we prepare and we go up to a Laryami to

1246
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: play Wyoming, and they had a pretty good team. We

1247
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 1: go up there and we're down to level enough in

1248
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: the start, and now you're really thinking, goodness great, this

1249
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: is bad and it's on the Mountain Network and people

1250
01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: are watching it. You said you may not score. We're

1251
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: add when may not win a game, We're gonna lose

1252
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 1: these guys. So you called time out and I really

1253
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 1: said this to the guys, and they come and they're

1254
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: looking at you and wondering. They want the answer, as

1255
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: the guys, we're fine, we're fine, just relaxed. I said,

1256
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 1: we gotta right where we want to as we're not living. Now,

1257
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:16,919
Speaker 1: they're gonna be over confident. They're gonna start jacking some shots.

1258
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: We're gonna get right back in this thing, you know,

1259
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering, oh my gosh, and we did. We

1260
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 1: end up getting back into it, and we end up

1261
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: winning the game. We end up winning the game up

1262
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 1: there on the road, and we've got one on the road,

1263
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: and we win that game in Wyoming, like in y

1264
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: in Laramie, seven thousand plus feet and against Larry Shine,

1265
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: who everybody knows can coach his butt off, Like, okay,

1266
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 1: so what's that? What's that? What? Bus ride back to Denver?

1267
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 1: Did you guys? Fly right? And Laramie? What's that? Like?

1268
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: Bus back? And you know, And I remember walking down

1269
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: to shake his hand after the game, and the first

1270
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 1: thing I said to him, sorry, you know, and he goes,

1271
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: We're just sorry for a great job. I'm happy for you,

1272
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: you know, keep doing what you do. He's just the best.

1273
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: He's the best at And we could have walked home.

1274
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 1: You know, we're so excited. We thought we went on

1275
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 1: national championship. I mean, we're you know, we beat we

1276
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: read Wyoming and have them once and you know, six

1277
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 1: weeks before that, and it was just great for the

1278
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 1: kids for them to rejoice and and and and take

1279
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 1: part of that. So Now we get home, you know,

1280
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 1: three in the morning, and who do we play on

1281
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: Sterriday but San Diego State. And I'm looking at the

1282
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 1: balls on my wall here and I think at that

1283
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 1: time they were twenty twenty one in the country and

1284
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 1: uh and I remember, and they were really good. They

1285
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 1: were really good with the Franklins and uh Tappie, I

1286
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: mean they were good. And I remember for the game

1287
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 1: I want to happen. Before the game, I'm coming out

1288
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: the coaches lockerroom, just changing and they're coming in and

1289
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: Coach Fisher grabs me and he's another the best, the best,

1290
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: and he says, hey, Dave, you know, I'm sorry everything

1291
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 1: that happened with Jeff. Are you okay? He said, there's

1292
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: anything I could ever do to help you? Let me know. Um,

1293
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: he goes, you know, I was in your position at

1294
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 1: one point, because yeah, coach, if you want six straight one,

1295
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 1: that's Jim you know, uh enter coach of Michigan, you know,

1296
01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 1: laughing with him, and he goes, no, because anything I

1297
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: could ever do, you know, let me know, and he goes,

1298
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: good luck to you and stay in touch. And I

1299
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 1: thought that meant a lot coming from him. And we

1300
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 1: went out there and Tapley was hurt that game. As

1301
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 1: Risk was hurting, he wasn't real good and we just

1302
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 1: hung around, chucked up some shots and we end up

1303
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: upsetting them, you know, and they were you know, ranked

1304
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 1: one highs up upset of the rate team Ember in

1305
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 1: the history of Air Force. So we're two and one. Now,

1306
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 1: kids rushed the crowd and the crowds we had a

1307
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 1: decent crowd that game. They jump on the floor. They

1308
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 1: rushed the floor, and our kids felt happy. We just

1309
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 1: beat a rate team and we're two and one now,

1310
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: you know, in my three games, so, uh, you know,

1311
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 1: it's crazy, it's crazy. And uh we played the next

1312
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 1: game at home against pc U. We're up three late

1313
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 1: um ms of mr scoring opportunity, they come down, score go,

1314
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 1: we go up one, We come down, don't score our

1315
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 1: last possession, they get a shot, the buzzer beat us.

1316
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 1: We can actually went up three one, went up, went

1317
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 1: to the three and one. We were two and two

1318
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 1: and then we didn't went on the game the rest

1319
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: of the year. We lose the Mount West games, and

1320
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 1: we lose the first round the Mount West Tournament. But

1321
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: prior to going to the Mount What's tournament administration came

1322
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 1: down and awarded me with a three year contract, uh

1323
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 1: to stay, And so that was that was big right there?

1324
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: What what what is that feeling? Like? You know, now,

1325
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:13,920
Speaker 1: first thing, Okay, we're gonna be able to pay for

1326
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 1: college my son the c SU and uh so we're

1327
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 1: getting him through school and then our daughter is gonna

1328
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 1: be next. So we got three years to make this

1329
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: thing right. And just coach Lapis's words, in my mind,

1330
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 1: there's at that time there was three fifty one or

1331
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 1: five thing. He goes, there's three and forty five of

1332
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: these out there, and if it's open tomorrow, you have

1333
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 1: two thousand applicants, you know, exaggerate, but he goes, you've

1334
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 1: got one of the Division one head coaching jobs. Try

1335
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: to enjoy it. Try to enjoy it. And so that

1336
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 1: that was, by the way, another prince of a guy,

1337
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 1: just another another like I've I've worked with him. And

1338
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: I would also say kind of the we had the

1339
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 1: same thing when I was at CBS. We were doing

1340
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 1: games together and we would like kind of we were

1341
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 1: verbally kind of sparred like back and forth coaching player,

1342
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 1: and we loved it. And I had a I had

1343
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: a loss who at you know a guy who was like,

1344
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 1: he came to a game in Vegas. He's like, are

1345
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 1: you guys okay? Like what are you talking about? It's like, oh,

1346
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 1: you guys are kind of going back and forth. I

1347
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 1: was like, that's how basketball people are, right, a coach

1348
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 1: and a player like it was beautiful. Yeah, And it wasn't.

1349
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 1: It wasn't his call. It was There was one guy

1350
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 1: back in New York I'll leave his name out of

1351
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: it who wasn't comfortable with like he he just wanted

1352
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 1: everybody to wrap their arms around each other, to hug

1353
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: each other during the game. Like all right, but it

1354
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 1: was real anyway. I think Lapis is an absolute prince

1355
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 1: of a guy, and you know he you know he's

1356
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 1: and and uh, that's it's a great way of looking

1357
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 1: at it, right. It's a Billis has told me the

1358
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:43,919
Speaker 1: same thing about doing games. You know, everybody gets piste

1359
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 1: when they get their games and you're like, hey man,

1360
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 1: you're getting paid to call it basketball games. Like a

1361
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:50,919
Speaker 1: little perspective. You're like, yeah, you know, you're you're you're

1362
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 1: you're right. J You're you're you're right. Um okay, so

1363
01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:00,120
Speaker 1: you get it. But now, okay, now you have the

1364
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 1: job that you wanted. But it's a really really hard

1365
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 1: job and it's been hard to get it back to

1366
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 1: that to that place where it was you know, uh,

1367
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:12,920
Speaker 1: you know, going back ten ten years ago, what is

1368
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 1: what's the biggest The biggest challenge obviously is getting players,

1369
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 1: Like do you do you simply have your staff look

1370
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 1: for people that are military families? Like what's the process

1371
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 1: like a fighting a player when you're an Air Force?

1372
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 1: Well high academics, Ivy League standards, and then you know,

1373
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 1: we lose a lot of kids because of medical reasons.

1374
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 1: You can't be on any type of medication and a

1375
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 1: lot of kids are on a d D medication and

1376
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 1: that that's a non non goo here. So we lost

1377
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 1: a really good minority player a couple of years ago,

1378
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: six seven, it was really skilled that was at asthma.

1379
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 1: We lost some a d D. We have lost maybe

1380
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 1: in uh minor vision or hearing ailments. It was find

1381
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 1: anywhere else or whatever may be. So that's hard. The

1382
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: academics are hard. The part about the medical is hard,

1383
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:00,480
Speaker 1: and then the commitment. You know, five years mommy, you

1384
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 1: know sometimes thinks, uh, little Joey's going to go off

1385
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 1: the war. That's not the case. You know, there are

1386
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 1: some deployment opportunities in your career field, but there's a

1387
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 1: lot that aren't. So it's really hard fighting all that.

1388
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 1: And then what changes you know in college basketball lands

1389
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 1: game now it's the transfers. You know, back in the

1390
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 1: day where teams would get young again, they're not getting

1391
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 1: young anymore. They're staying old because of the transfers. And

1392
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 1: that has been really you know, the Mountain West is

1393
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 1: really benefited from that. You know, muscle men would in

1394
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 1: Nevada um the best skill. What they're doing transfer senior

1395
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 1: state even their backcourt this year Vegas has done over

1396
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 1: the year. Everyone you know, boys is now loading up.

1397
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 1: So when you think you can get your guys to

1398
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 1: juniors and seniors and now you've got a chance, well

1399
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 1: guess what those other teams are gonna stay juniors and

1400
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 1: seniors too now. So that's been probably our hardest obstacle.

1401
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 1: You know, you have his kid, Lavell Scotty, who comes

1402
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 1: from a really tough background, really tough background, uh in

1403
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 1: Fort Worth, and now he's like a senior. You talked

1404
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:58,920
Speaker 1: about your initial what you wanted to do is be

1405
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 1: a Division three coach and be a part of kind

1406
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 1: of the change from boy to man. And you've been

1407
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 1: able to do that with Lavell, haven't you. Yep, yep, yep,

1408
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:13,360
Speaker 1: And he's how's how's how's he? How has he changed?

1409
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:15,600
Speaker 1: What has that been like to be his coach and

1410
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 1: watch him go through this process for the last four years.

1411
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:21,679
Speaker 1: You know, Lavelle comes from a tough, tough family background

1412
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 1: where he's kind of a breadwinner of the family. It's

1413
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 1: taking care of his siblings and his mom and dad

1414
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 1: over the years while he's been here, because they do

1415
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 1: receive a stipend here, and it's been some rough times

1416
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: with his mom and death gone through back there, and

1417
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:37,559
Speaker 1: he's had to go home and take care of them

1418
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 1: and make sure they're getting what they need. And when

1419
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 1: he came here, he just didn't sit with some of

1420
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 1: the other guys who were at the academy, non athletes too,

1421
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 1: just because their background. You know, some of them are

1422
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 1: coming from parents are senators, a congressman, doctors, and you

1423
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:54,639
Speaker 1: know they went to the academy and it's that three

1424
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: car garage kid and uh, you know Lavell have that

1425
01:08:58,160 --> 01:08:59,680
Speaker 1: and I just said, if there's one, I'm going to

1426
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 1: better it's not gonna make it's gonna be him. But

1427
01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 1: he was determined to make it. And he's extremely bright

1428
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: and made it through the prep school and then came

1429
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 1: here to the academy and uh, you know, like even

1430
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:11,640
Speaker 1: this year, he didn't go over Christmas. You know, he

1431
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 1: didn't he didn't go over Christmas. He was the only

1432
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 1: player to stay here and uh and just because it

1433
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:19,600
Speaker 1: was better for him to be here. And uh, and

1434
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:21,680
Speaker 1: you know, we lose Saturday night, as you know, down

1435
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:23,759
Speaker 1: in New Mexico, and then you know what happens Saturday

1436
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:25,639
Speaker 1: night to one of their players. And Sunday I'm sitting

1437
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 1: in my office here watching film and he comes by

1438
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 1: to get some shooting in and I said, hey, do

1439
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 1: you hear about you know, the player of New Mexico

1440
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 1: And you know I didn't, and I said, got a little.

1441
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 1: I just appreciate you and your teammates of how you

1442
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 1: guys are and how you represent And he goes, well, Coach,

1443
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 1: we can't do those things here. And I said, not

1444
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 1: only you can't do them, but you want to do them.

1445
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:45,680
Speaker 1: He goes, no, I want to because that's not who

1446
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 1: I am. And you know you respect that, and that's

1447
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 1: the kind of kids you have here, they make better choices.

1448
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:52,920
Speaker 1: I tho, then make some bad choices, don't get it off.

1449
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 1: You know, we got kids there and make some choices

1450
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:56,840
Speaker 1: aren't right because they're still kids. But you know, I

1451
01:09:56,920 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 1: appreciate that when he's come through, when he graduated here,

1452
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a that's a story that unbelievable that

1453
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 1: he'll graduate and be an officer in the Air Force

1454
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 1: from what he's saying, from what he had to go

1455
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 1: through all the use here and it's been been a

1456
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 1: really good player. I got I got two more for you.

1457
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 1: First is this, if there's a there's an assistant coach

1458
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:22,680
Speaker 1: who is struggle right now, you've been You've been some

1459
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: you coached some bad teams, been assisting on bad teams

1460
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:28,559
Speaker 1: right and and it feels like it feels like, man,

1461
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: maybe I'm maybe I should go in to medical sales,

1462
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 1: you know, maybe I maybe I should take a high

1463
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 1: school job or whatever. What would what would you say

1464
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 1: to them to get them kind of mid year when

1465
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 1: things are bad, what would you say to them from

1466
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:45,640
Speaker 1: your perspective to keep them going? Um, you got at

1467
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 1: this for a reason, and the reason was to help

1468
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 1: kids and be a part of a team. So that's

1469
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 1: always what you've done. Continue to work and build that team.

1470
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 1: Don't look for that next job or think about we're

1471
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:59,680
Speaker 1: not gonna get this done. Keep making that the best

1472
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:03,200
Speaker 1: job you have. Keep making and working for that head

1473
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:06,680
Speaker 1: coach who gave you an opportunity, um, to be the

1474
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:08,679
Speaker 1: best head coach he can be in the best program

1475
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 1: he can be. And keep doing what you've done all

1476
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 1: your life because you've always tried to make the team

1477
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 1: or be in the starting five, do whatever, because you've

1478
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 1: grown up in this sport. Keep doing the right things

1479
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: and good things will happen, all right, Last last thing, Um,

1480
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 1: you do have a senior. You have a couple of

1481
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:28,960
Speaker 1: really good seniors, and you guys have had some guys

1482
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 1: have had some huge wins in order to in order

1483
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:35,599
Speaker 1: to to what what has to happen for your team

1484
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:39,200
Speaker 1: to accomplish your potential this year, we got to stay

1485
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 1: healthy first and foremost, and then we've got to shoot

1486
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 1: the basketball at a higher rate than we did. You know,

1487
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 1: we took on questionable shots and early shots and bad

1488
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 1: shots on Saturday three. We've got to be better from

1489
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 1: the three, and then we can't turn the ball over

1490
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 1: at the rate we did in that game. Especially, you're

1491
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 1: only on the five in the second half, but we

1492
01:11:57,720 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 1: we've turned four over. We're really crucial. So we've got

1493
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 1: shoot it and take better shots. It's a great we

1494
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:05,439
Speaker 1: can because one of the better shooting teams, and and

1495
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:08,719
Speaker 1: and and protect the ball a little bit better because

1496
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:11,559
Speaker 1: we can't give open run away with three bad plays

1497
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 1: where they got dunk on the other end six points,

1498
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:15,840
Speaker 1: we lose by six or there's no defenses you know

1499
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 1: for that, that's you know that pikes six. We got

1500
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 1: a little bit better at that. And because this group

1501
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:23,360
Speaker 1: really gets along, well, we've got you know, thirteen more,

1502
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 1: you know, we could pick a few here and there,

1503
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:29,120
Speaker 1: then maybe we're also fund here cand of the year. Well, listen,

1504
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 1: it's it's always great to catch up. I had no

1505
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 1: idea you grew up above a bar um. But it

1506
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:37,560
Speaker 1: does give you that perspective of even when you you

1507
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 1: lose a couple in a row, if you consider where

1508
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 1: you've been and where you've gotten to and this run

1509
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:44,840
Speaker 1: that you've had at Air Force, and the lives that

1510
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:47,760
Speaker 1: the academy and your program have been able to change,

1511
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 1: it's it's really remarkable thing. Thanks so much for telling

1512
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:53,680
Speaker 1: me your story and then for joining me on the podcast. Well,

1513
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:55,880
Speaker 1: I appreciate and I appreciate all you do for our game.

1514
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:58,800
Speaker 1: Keep doing great things. Be sure to catch the live

1515
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 1: edition of The Doug Leap Show weekdays at three p m.

1516
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 1: Easter noon Pacific. Hey Mike, thanks to Dave Pilopovich, head

1517
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 1: coach of Air Force, for that was a fun discussion.

1518
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 1: Remember you can download listen to any of these long

1519
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:15,040
Speaker 1: form interviews plus some other thoughts on hoop with with

1520
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,960
Speaker 1: All Ball, subscribe rate it was it was it download,

1521
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:23,840
Speaker 1: subscribe and rate. Download, subscribe and rate, and make sure

1522
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 1: you listen to my daily radio show which covers all sports.

1523
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 1: We also have great interviews on that as well three

1524
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 1: to six Eastern, twelve to three Pacific on Fox Sports Trader,

1525
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Serious x M two seventeen

1526
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 1: and two oh three. There you go. Those are all

1527
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:38,680
Speaker 1: the places that you can find me or just hit

1528
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:41,759
Speaker 1: me up on Twitter at Gottlieb Show. I'm Doug Gottlieb

1529
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:43,240
Speaker 1: in This is All Ball