1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, Hey, besties. Today on the bright Side, New 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: York Times bestselling author Rainbow Rawl joins us for this 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: month's edition of shelf Life. She's been called the best 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: thing to happen to young adult literature, and she's here 5 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: to share how music inspired her new book, Slow Dance, 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: plus the importance of storytelling now that her early work 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: is the subject of controversy. We'll get into that and 8 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: so much more. It's Tuesday, August twenty seventh. I'm Simone Boyce. 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,639 Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from 10 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 2: Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to 11 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,319 Speaker 2: share women's stories, to laugh, learn and. 12 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 3: Brighten your day. 13 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: Okay, Danielle, Is there a specific soundtrack, album or song 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: that just really lights you up creatively gets the juices flowing? 15 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 3: Okay? Creatively? 16 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: No, Because when I'm creative, I can't hear music. 17 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 3: I need silence. I have to be in my thoughts. 18 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 3: I can't even hear other people's voices. 19 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 4: Not even in instrumental music. 20 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 2: M mmm. I just like complete silence. But I have 21 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 2: soundtracks to my life. You're gonna laugh. The first one 22 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 2: is Lauren Hill Love. I think that was my first 23 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 2: album ever, Oh. 24 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 3: Such a good first album. 25 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 2: I love that I flew to Toronto to see her 26 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 2: for one night because I missed the LA concert and 27 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: I was like, I'm not missing this live. 28 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 3: I don't know, but the soundtrack incredible Pink Misunderstood. 29 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 4: Mm hm. 30 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 2: I played that over and over and over again when 31 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 2: I was a kid and my mom took me to 32 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 2: see the concert, and I remember thinking, like, this is 33 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 2: what a woman is like. It was just like, oh 34 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: my god, she was so strong and amazing. And this 35 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 2: is kind of funny, but Broadway Broadway is a soundtrack 36 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: to my life, Like all the shows remind me of 37 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: my childhood, and my mom would take me to these 38 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 2: plays and I just have such great memories of that. 39 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 3: They make me smile, like which shows for you? 40 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 2: We saw so many like Sweet Charity, Guys and Dolls, 41 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 2: Fiddler on the Roof, Lion King, like I literally saw everything, 42 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 2: and I saw Donnie Osmond was my first real I 43 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 2: always say that John Stainless was my first crush, but 44 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: the realty is that Donnie Osmond was my first crush. 45 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: And I would beg her to see Joseph and the 46 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 2: Technicolor dream Coat. 47 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 4: Because of him. That's amazing. 48 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 3: How about you save me from this embarrassment. 49 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: You know, I think it's interesting that you brought up 50 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: your youth and the soundtracks that you still listen to 51 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: as a kid, because to this day, those are still 52 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: the songs that generate the most emotion, passion, heart within me. 53 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: So I think about the soundtrack to The Parent Trap, 54 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: that movie I loved so much, and I just takes 55 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: me back to watching that film with my friends and 56 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: all the inside jokes that we had from that movie. 57 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: I also would agree Broadway shows Rent is like a 58 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: soundtrack to my high school five hundred and twenty five thousand, 59 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: six hundred minutes we all saying that at my friend 60 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: Erica's house growing up. It's how I learned math. Yes, 61 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: that's really where it all started. And then it it 62 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: evolves and it changes, you know, Like lately, I've really 63 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: loved this song by The War on Drugs called I 64 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: Don't Live Here Anymore, and it just I don't know, 65 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: this is going to sound so corny, but I don't 66 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: know how else to explain it. 67 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 4: It just has main character energy. 68 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 1: It's such an energizing song that just makes you feel 69 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: really empowered and like you're you're the star of your 70 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: own movie. 71 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 4: You know what's. 72 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 2: Interesting you say that is I always find like when 73 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 2: I date different people, they bring new music into my life. 74 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 2: And like, I had never listened to gospel music before, 75 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: and I dated someone who loved gospel, and now every 76 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: Sunday here I am listening to gospel and it puts 77 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: me in such a peaceful place. 78 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really inspiring music. Really, it can change our 79 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: mood so quickly, change mood, change your life, our guest today. 80 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: She also uses music as a source of inspiration. Rainbow 81 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: Rowl is an award winning author who incorporates music into 82 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: a writing process by creating specific playlists for each of 83 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: her characters. I love this so much because I love 84 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: creating a specific playlist for cities that. 85 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 3: I really do and then I walk around and listen 86 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 3: to them. You have a Paris playlist, a London playlist. 87 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: Well, you might recognize her as the author of the 88 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: number one New York Times bestseller eleanor in Park. It's 89 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: a love story about two Starcross misfits, and she made 90 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: separate playlists with an A side and a B for 91 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: both of those characters. 92 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 3: I really loved Eleanor in Park. 93 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,559 Speaker 2: That was the first Rainbow Rawl book that I read, 94 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: and I read it so many years ago. I actually 95 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: didn't know it was Rainbow Rawl, like I was just 96 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: reading a book. And so now we get to interview her. 97 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: It's a pretty cool moment for me. But she's such 98 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: an accomplished author. Eleanor in Park was her second novel 99 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 2: after Attachments, and some of her other bestsellers include Fangirl 100 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 2: and carry On. So these and some of her other 101 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 2: books became canon for young LGBTQ readers. 102 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 3: And here's something to note. 103 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: In recent years, Eleanor in Park has actually been the 104 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 2: subject of controversy. It's been banned in some school districts. 105 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: It's part of that larger book band that's been sweeping 106 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: the country. What's pretty upsetting to me is that a 107 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: lot of those books that are banned center around LGBTQ 108 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: characters and people of color. So I definitely want to 109 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: ask her about that. 110 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear what she says about that. 111 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: And she's clearly not letting any hater solower down. Just 112 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: this summer, she released Slow Dance, which she considers like 113 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: a sister book or a companion piece to Eleanor in Park, 114 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 1: and it follows the love story of a boy and 115 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: a girl, Shiloh and Carrie, who, as teenagers, promise each 116 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: other that their friendship will never change. Everyone thought they'd 117 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: end up together too, but as the years go by, 118 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 1: things inevitably change, and Shiloh and Carrie go fourteen years 119 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: without speaking, and now, as adults, the two reconnect and 120 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: try to find their way back to where it all began. 121 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed this one, and there's of course a 122 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: playlist to go along with the in true Rainbow Rale fashion, 123 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: which we'll be linking in our show notes. 124 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: All right, let's bring her in, The Woman, the Myth, 125 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: the Legend, Rainbow. 126 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 3: Oh Raoul, Welcome to the bright Side. 127 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you so much, Rainbow. 128 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 2: Before we really get into things, I have to tell 129 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 2: you what a big fan I am of yours. We 130 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 2: get to have a lot of conversations with authors on 131 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 2: this show, and I don't think I've ever been so 132 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: excited for one. 133 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 4: Oh, I love your work. Oh, thank you Rainbow. 134 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: We were just chatting about your connection to music, and 135 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: I think that's something that really defines you and distinguishes 136 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: you as an author. And your latest book is called 137 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: slow Dance. 138 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 4: That's right. Can you share the significance behind that title? 139 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 4: How did you land on it? Oh? 140 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 5: That's interesting because sometimes I have the title from the 141 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 5: very beginning, and then I get very jealous and guarded 142 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 5: of the title because I feel like someone else is 143 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 5: going to steal the title before my book is done. 144 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 4: This time, I did not. 145 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 5: I was just calling it now and then because the 146 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 5: book is sort of split into things that are happening 147 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 5: in the now and things that were happening then. And 148 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 5: no one liked that title. Literally, no one liked it, 149 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 5: and so I had to come up with something. And 150 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 5: it's so difficult to come up with a relationship be 151 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 5: title because there are infinite relationship be books. It's interesting 152 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 5: when you come up with the title, you're not actually 153 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 5: looking for a title that no one has had before. 154 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 5: Titles can be repeated, but you wouldn't want to pick 155 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 5: a title that like, because you know Twilight and everyone knows. 156 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 5: So I'm surprised that there were not really very many 157 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 5: books just called slow Dance. And I thought it worked 158 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 5: great because well, first of all, there's literally slow dancing 159 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 5: in this book. It's not a lie it's not a 160 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 5: red hearing. And also it really describes who they are 161 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 5: and what the path their relationship takes. It's a slow 162 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 5: burn for them. 163 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 2: So the idea of music is interesting to me with 164 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: your work because you incorporate it into your stories and 165 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: you've said that music becomes the soundtrack to your books. 166 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 2: But do you listen to music as you write them 167 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 2: as well? 168 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 5: I do, And I now know that that's kind of 169 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 5: unusual that many writers can't listen to anything with lyrics 170 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 5: as they're writing because the lyrics get in their heads. 171 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 5: I've always been able to do it, and part of 172 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 5: it is that I don't hear the lyrics, So I 173 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 5: can listen to a song a thousand times and not 174 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 5: really know the words because I just I'm just hearing 175 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 5: kind of the vibe of it. 176 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 4: I don't clock the lyrics, So yeah. 177 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 5: I do. I try to find a song always that 178 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 5: fits the feeling of a scene, and then it becomes 179 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 5: an emotional key for me because you cannot stay in 180 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 5: the scene the way that you want to, especially if 181 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 5: you're writing something difficult. So I would really use music 182 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 5: as like, I'm always going to listen to this song 183 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 5: when I write a certain scene and would help me 184 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 5: kind of fast track into that emotion. 185 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: Again, the playlist that you crafted for your latest book 186 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: has everything from Joni Mitchell and You Too to Journey 187 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: and Outcast. 188 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 4: I mean, you are running the gamut. I love your range. 189 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: So how do you incorporate a song into a scene 190 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: or a character? 191 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 4: Specifically? 192 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: What comes to mind is when Shiloh and Carrie are 193 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: dancing to Hey y'all. 194 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 5: So usually there's not music already playing in a scene. 195 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 5: In that case, I'm trying to think of the song 196 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 5: that would play in the soundtrack of my head as 197 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 5: I'm writing this movie, right, Yeah, But then in this book, 198 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 5: there's a lot of times when music is playing, and 199 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 5: so it's fun to think about what song is playing 200 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 5: at that moment, at that date, and what it's going 201 00:08:58,080 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 5: to be to the characters, you know, what meaning will 202 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 5: to them. So in that scene, Hey y'all really doesn't 203 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 5: fit where they are. They're having this very tense emotional 204 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 5: moment and they're slow dancing, and Shiloh doesn't even realize 205 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 5: they're slow dancing to a very fast song. So does 206 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 5: this seem to be like the perfect song to show 207 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 5: the dissonance she was feeling like if you can't hear heya, 208 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 5: you are really in your own head. 209 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I do a lot of work with an 210 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 2: organization called Family Equality, and their mission is to advance 211 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 2: equality for LGBTQ plus families, And just this past weekend 212 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 2: I did a shoot with them for one of the 213 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 2: coolest things I'd ever seen. It's called the Rainbow Book Bus. 214 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 2: So the Rainbow Book Bus, just to describe it, is 215 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 2: literally a school bus painted all rainbow with artwork by 216 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 2: LGBTQ artists like murals, and it's filled with bann books 217 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: from LGBTQ plus stories characters. And these two guys drive 218 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 2: around the country and stop in cities where these books 219 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 2: have been banned. So I get on the bus and 220 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: it's covered in rainbow raul books. 221 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 4: My books are banned in a lot of places. 222 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 3: Well, I was going to say you're a rock star 223 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 3: on the bus. I was actually going to say, like, 224 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 3: you are the Oprah of the Rainbow Book Bus. 225 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 4: That's awesome. 226 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 2: It was so cool, and I knew I was about 227 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 2: to interview you, so I was so excited. But your 228 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 2: stories means so much to people. What does it mean 229 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 2: to you to create a world that people can really 230 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 2: see themselves in. 231 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 5: When you're writing, I think you I have to shut 232 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 5: out the world, and I try to make the story 233 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 5: as specific as possible, because I think that the stories 234 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 5: that connect are not the stories where you say, I 235 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 5: want as many people as possible to relate to this 236 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 5: and understand it. And it's more like, make the story 237 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 5: so specific, specific, specific, specific, that the characters feel real. 238 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 5: And then I think those specific stories are actually the 239 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 5: stories that click hard with people. So I'm really closing 240 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 5: people out as I'm writing, and I'm trying not to 241 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 5: think of what people will say so that I can 242 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 5: write something that feels real and authentic and true. And 243 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 5: then I push it out and hope and I just hope. 244 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 5: And for me, the biggest compliment is when someone really 245 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 5: picks up what I'm putting down, when they get it, 246 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 5: not even that they like it, but when I can 247 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 5: just tell they get it by the way they're speaking 248 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 5: to me, that it's harmonizing with them, it's resonating. That 249 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 5: is the best feeling. It feels like I accomplished something. 250 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 2: You mentioned that a lot of your books are banned 251 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 2: in certain places. They are so I read the other 252 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 2: day that the American Library Association is tracking a record 253 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 2: number of book bands across the country. Most are targeted 254 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 2: at people of color and the LGBTQ plus community. And 255 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 2: part of the reason I love books so much is 256 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 2: I was able to see myself in stories when I 257 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 2: was at my lowest or my highest point, and I 258 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 2: think these book bands strip that from people in so 259 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 2: many ways. There were thirty three hundred books banned last year. 260 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 2: What are the consequences of book banning? 261 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 5: What I think the worst part is is that people 262 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 5: need the freedom to think and to feel, and so 263 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 5: when you're restricting what people can read, you're really trying 264 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 5: to restrict what they can think, and you're also kind 265 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 5: of gaslighting them about what reality is. And I don't 266 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 5: think that my books are appropriate for every kid. Eleanor 267 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 5: in Park is my most banned book. I would not 268 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 5: hand my book to a twelve year old. But I 269 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 5: think when you have kids who are sixteen seventeen, the 270 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 5: same age as of the characters, they're experiencing the things 271 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 5: that the characters are and they want to process it, 272 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 5: they want to think about it, they want to have 273 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 5: feelings about it, or they're watching other people experience these things. 274 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 5: And I think if you're like, you can't even read 275 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 5: a book about that, it's almost like you're telling them 276 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 5: that their reality is not allowed to exist, that they're 277 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 5: only allowed to be reflected in this false way and 278 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 5: they're not allowed to process what's actually happening to them. 279 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 5: The reason Elimore Park gets banned is because of her 280 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 5: stepfather is harassing her. And I think when Eleanor in 281 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 5: Park gets banned, you're really telling girls like Eleanor what's 282 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 5: happening to you is too ugly for you to even 283 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 5: speak about. It's too ugly for anyone else to empathize with. 284 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 5: Your story is just too foul, too ugly, too hard. 285 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 5: And I think at sixteen, at fourteen, at fifteen, at seventeen, 286 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 5: at eighteen, you need to start being able to process 287 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 5: and think and talk about things. You might not be 288 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 5: in a position where you can talk to your parents 289 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 5: or even a teacher about it. So to be told 290 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 5: that you can't even read about it, yeah, I feel 291 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 5: like it's restricting the way that people think. 292 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 2: How did you react when you found out that your 293 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 2: book was banned? 294 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, the first time, I was really devastated, and everybody 295 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 5: wanted to talk to me about it, and they wanted me. 296 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 5: I felt like people wanted me to have this sort 297 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 5: of fighting spirit and to be proud a little bit, 298 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 5: like people kept saying it was a badge of honor, 299 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 5: and I felt really horrified and I felt I think 300 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 5: I said earlier that the biggest compliment is to feel understood, 301 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 5: and so the very worst thing that can happen is 302 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 5: to feel like people don't understand what you're doing. And 303 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 5: so to see my words and to see Eleanor's story 304 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 5: being called pornography, oh, I felt really deeply, deeply upset 305 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 5: by it. And it took, you know, maybe a year 306 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 5: to get to the point where I felt like I 307 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 5: could talk about it and without getting very defensive and 308 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 5: personally feeling attacked. And even now sometimes last year, Eleanor 309 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 5: in Park was read at in a Canadian legislature somewhere 310 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 5: and someone sent me the clip and they were reading 311 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 5: out of context to this scene, and I just went 312 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 5: right back to how I felt in twenty fourteen. 313 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 4: I just felt so under attack. 314 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 5: And to hear my words being used against librarians, you know, 315 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 5: that's the worst too. It's like the librarians who recommend 316 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 5: my books are being called out for recommending them and 317 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 5: just to see myself being twisted that way. Oh, it 318 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 5: was just awful and I don't feel like maybe I'll 319 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 5: ever really get over it, and I think it makes 320 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 5: me not a good warrior for it. You know, you 321 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 5: want to be someone out fighting for books and fighting 322 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 5: for banned books, and I don't feel like I can 323 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 5: always be that person because I get too much like 324 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 5: I'm under attack. So then, what do you think is 325 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 5: the best way to fight back? We all have different 326 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 5: roles to play. I think the people in the front 327 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 5: line are the librarians, and I find them to be 328 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 5: so courageous, and you wouldn't think that a librarian should 329 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 5: be fighting for their job by recommending a book. I 330 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 5: feel like as parents, it's important to be active and 331 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 5: to talk and to be part of what's happening at 332 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 5: our schools. For authors, I think maybe the best way 333 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 5: to fight back is to continue to write your stories 334 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 5: and not to hear those voices telling you not to. 335 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 5: Because you don't want your life to be hard. You 336 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 5: want to feel like your books are going to be 337 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 5: in libraries. It's very easy to hear those people in 338 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 5: your head and think, oh, well, I'll just leave that out, 339 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 5: or it'd be easier if this character didn't make this choice, 340 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 5: ord be easier if this didn't happen. So one of 341 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 5: the things I feel like I need to do is 342 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 5: just keep writing things that feel true to me. 343 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: We need to take a quick break, but we'll be 344 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: right back with more from New York Times best selling 345 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: author Rainbow Rowl. And we're back with Rainbow Rowl. 346 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 2: Rainbow, just like so many of your characters who take 347 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 2: this hero's journey, I read that you took one yourself. 348 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 2: You were diagnosed with a thyroid disorder and it made 349 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: you question whether you'd be able to ever write again, 350 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 2: And in an pointerview, you said it made you unable 351 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 2: to trust your brain again. I'm wondering what that was 352 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 2: like and how you think about it now. 353 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 5: I had hyper parathyroids disorder, So the parathybroid kind of 354 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 5: sits next to the thyroid, and it's your monitor for calcium, 355 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 5: So if you need calcium, it sends it into your blood. 356 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 5: And basically my lever was stuck on go go go, 357 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 5: So I was just being flooded with calcium all the time, 358 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 5: and it was starting to build up all over my 359 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 5: body and it was being robbed of my bones, so 360 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 5: the tumor was sending it out of my bones into 361 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 5: my body and it was kind of clogging everything up. 362 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 5: I was getting weird deposits, my bones were breaking and 363 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 5: not healing. And then the mental thing that was happening 364 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 5: is I was just losing. Like I would have a 365 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 5: conversation with someone and then the next time I saw them, 366 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 5: I'd have the exact same conversation and I wouldn't realize 367 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 5: I was repeating myself and they would. So it was 368 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 5: just sort of felt like holes were opening up in 369 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 5: my brain and no one could really tell me what 370 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 5: was wrong, and so I just started to be very 371 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 5: quiet about it. And I did feel that maybe I 372 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 5: couldn't write a novel again. I was just physically I 373 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 5: had very little samina. Mentally, I felt like I couldn't 374 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 5: hold a novel necessarily in my brain. It's a lot 375 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 5: to hold an entire novel. And it was strange because 376 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 5: your brain is who you are. 377 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: Well, the good news is that you were able to 378 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 2: fully recover. 379 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 3: How did that come about? 380 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 2: You know? 381 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 5: It was a detective nurse practitioner who figured out what 382 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 5: was wrong with me. 383 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 4: I'm a fat person. 384 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 5: And I think it was very easy to look at 385 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 5: the things that were going wrong with me and assume 386 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 5: that there must be like, you know, we'll change your diet, 387 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 5: exercise more arrest. Oh, you must be under stress. So 388 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 5: it was this nurse practitioner who noticed that my calcium 389 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 5: was persistently high and had me get it checked. And 390 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 5: then this tumor was discovered. And when you have a 391 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 5: tumor on your parathyroid and it's removed, you bounce back 392 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 5: almost immediately. And you have a couple of days of 393 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 5: going through withdrawal because your body is used to heavy, 394 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 5: heavy calcium. You feel like you're you're actually shaking because 395 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 5: you think you need calcium and you don't. But then 396 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 5: it was just like, within a month, the bones that 397 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 5: had been fracturing were healing again and I wasn't in pain, 398 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 5: and I felt almost like lights were going on in 399 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 5: my head just like And I don't really understand how 400 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 5: you're able to bounce back from it, but I did 401 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 5: feel like I could write again, I could think again. 402 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 5: I'd always had a brain that could hold a lot. 403 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 5: I was lucky, yeah, and it was my strength right, 404 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 5: And I did feel like I was just feeling stronger 405 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 5: and stronger and stronger to where I could write a 406 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 5: complicated novel again, and I could work on four different 407 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 5: things at once, and I didn't feel like I necessarily 408 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 5: had to check my notes as much. 409 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 4: I felt like this return to strength and air and 410 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 4: oxygen and vision. 411 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: I read that during that same period you thought that 412 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: perhaps your best work was behind you. 413 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 4: Definitely. 414 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: Now that Slow Dance has been released and with such 415 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: a warm reception, what does this book symbolize for you? 416 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 4: Yeah? 417 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 5: I did feel that way. I felt that way conclusively, 418 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 5: Like it wasn't just like I suspected it. I felt 419 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 5: pretty sure of it. I would look back on a 420 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 5: book like Eleanor and Park and think, I don't think 421 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 5: I'm ever gonna have that. Do you ever feel like 422 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 5: you don't have dexterity in your fingers, maybe out your cold, 423 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 5: and you're trying to do something you normally do and 424 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 5: it's like, oh, my fingers aren't quite working the way 425 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 5: they did. I felt like I'd lost my dexterity for 426 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 5: language and for describing things, and that I could still 427 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 5: be a pretty good writer, but maybe I would never 428 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 5: be able to handle characters with the same deafness that 429 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 5: I had in the past. Honestly, I felt pretty good 430 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 5: about it. 431 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 4: Anyway. 432 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 5: The Wind Blows my book, which came out a few 433 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 5: years ago after my surgery, I did feel really good. 434 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 4: About that book. 435 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 5: But I think this book I felt very much in 436 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 5: my full power. I even felt like I couldn't have 437 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 5: written this book before, if that makes sense, Like maybe 438 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 5: in some ways I'd gotten more powerful or more deft, 439 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 5: or that I had a better depth of understanding of 440 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 5: certain things. And I felt when I was writing this 441 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 5: book really full throated, like the connection between my lungs 442 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 5: and my brain and my voice and my hands were 443 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 5: just if I were speaking this book, it would have 444 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 5: been in a really loud, clear voice that everyone could understand. 445 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 5: I felt like this power was rushing through me. That's 446 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 5: not to say that it's like the best book, but 447 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 5: I did feel like for me, it was as good 448 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:20,959 Speaker 5: as anything I'd written, and I would be just as 449 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 5: proud of it to hand it to anyone. 450 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 2: I'm going to switch up the energy and brag about 451 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 2: you for a second, so you know. I'm a big 452 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 2: Rainbow Rawul fan, and I saw a Vox article with 453 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 2: this headline, Rainbow Raoul is the best thing to happen 454 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 2: to young adult literature in ages and she signals the future. 455 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 4: Wow, I don't recall that well. 456 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 2: I think that you've in many ways redefined the genre 457 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 2: of YA. But what I find really interesting is that 458 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 2: you didn't set out to write YA novels. 459 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 5: I did not know I was writing adult and I 460 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 5: thought that eleanor in Park was an adult novel. It 461 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 5: was published as an adult novel in the UK before the. 462 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 2: US, and so how did it turn into this genre 463 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 2: that is so synonymous with you? 464 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 4: Right? 465 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 5: I had a very difficult time selling Eleanor in Park 466 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 5: in the US. My published Sugar who published Attachments, passed 467 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 5: on it and it was delayed, and for a while 468 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 5: it looked like is it even going to come out? 469 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 5: And then so the editor who bought it in the US, 470 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 5: her name is Sarah Goodman. It was her idea, and 471 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 5: it was partially because of the weltnar Stars YA was 472 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 5: shifting a little bit and she had this idea of 473 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 5: you know, maybe this could be a YA book. And 474 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 5: it's funny now, but the question then was, well, it's 475 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 5: set in nineteen eighty six and we're not sure that 476 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 5: teens will be able to understand what's happening and will 477 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 5: relate to it, and so maybe it should be adult 478 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 5: because of that, because of the nineteen eighty six and 479 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 5: I remember thinking, like, a teenager can read Little Women 480 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 5: and not be like where are the cars? 481 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 4: Why are they lighting candles? 482 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 5: Like the idea that a teenager would read a book 483 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 5: set nineteen eighty six and be so confused or so 484 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 5: put off by it. I knew that was not going 485 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 5: to be an issue, but I hadn't thought of it 486 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,959 Speaker 5: as a teen book book. Of course, I was like, sure, whatever, 487 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:02,959 Speaker 5: you know, let's try it. 488 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 3: And it was a huge success. 489 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 4: It was. 490 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 5: I think it was much more successful as a white 491 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 5: book than it would ever have been if had it 492 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 5: been published adult. 493 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: Well, your latest book is your first adult novel in 494 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:14,959 Speaker 1: ten years, and I know that you bring a bit 495 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: of your own story into every book that you write. 496 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: So how is Slow Dance reflective of your own relationships 497 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: both as an adult and as a teenager. I was 498 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 1: thinking about this this morning. You know, in the Bible, 499 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: God takes Adam's rib to make Eve. That's a little 500 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: bit what I do. 501 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 5: I try to find some part of me that I 502 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 5: can take and build a character around and sometimes it's 503 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 5: a bigger part than others, and definitely with Slow Dance, 504 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 5: I was thinking about my own relationship with my husband. 505 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 5: I met my husband when he was eleven years old. 506 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 5: I was almost thirteen. We were in middle school, and 507 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 5: we were just friends pretty much from middle school on 508 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 5: all the way through high school through college. We didn't 509 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 5: date until after I graduated from college. And I had 510 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 5: been thinking because I'd hung out with my husband and 511 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 5: a friend from high school, Paul, who was an artist now, 512 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 5: and we hadn't hung out all together for a long time, 513 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 5: and we had this weekend where we hung out, and 514 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 5: I realized that my husband, when he was around Paul, 515 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 5: was more like who he had been in high school, 516 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 5: and that it had totally changed our dynamics. So when 517 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,479 Speaker 5: the three of us were hanging out together just it 518 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 5: was like I got a time machine where I get 519 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 5: to go back and experience him as my friend again, 520 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 5: not my husband. 521 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 4: I felt like a real gift. 522 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 5: So that set me thinking about what would have happened 523 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 5: if we had never started dating. And that's where Kerrie 524 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 5: and Shilah were born. These two characters who they're so 525 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 5: close everyone thinks they should be together, but they never 526 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 5: cross that. They never figure it out. I feel very 527 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 5: lucky to have eventually figured it out, but what if 528 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 5: I hadn't, And that's really where that came. So they 529 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 5: they're definitely parts of them that are my husband and 530 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 5: me and our friend, but then they become totally different 531 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 5: characters as I built the world around them. 532 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 2: We need to take a quick break, but when we 533 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 2: come back. Author Rainbow Rowel reads an excerpt from her 534 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 2: latest novel, Slow Dance, and she answers questions from you 535 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 2: Don't go anywhere. We're back with Rainbow Rowl. Okay, Rainbow, 536 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 2: I'd love to ask you to read a little from 537 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 2: Slow Dance for us. 538 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 5: Shure, We've had such a serious, serious conversation, like about 539 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 5: really deep stuff, and now we're going to read kind 540 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 5: of a light section of this point. 541 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 3: Here's the thing. 542 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 2: We also talked about how you are a rock star 543 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 2: on the Rainbow book bus, so we're going to even 544 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 2: it out true true. 545 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 5: Oh, I wasn't complaining. I like to have deep conversations. Okay, 546 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 5: so let me set it up a little bit. So 547 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 5: Shiloh and Carrie we're best friends in high school. They 548 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 5: graduated nineteen ninety one, both of them come from really 549 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 5: poor families and kind of a rough part of town. 550 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 5: They really were like there for each other in very 551 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 5: fundamental ways. But they haven't talked in fourteen years, and 552 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 5: we don't know why they've been invited to this wedding. 553 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 5: It's their like their third musketeer. Their mutual best friend 554 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 5: is getting remarried, and Shiloh still lives in Omaha. She 555 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 5: lives within her mom's house. She's a divorced mom. And 556 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 5: about Carrie, he's been away in the navy, and Shiloh 557 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 5: knows she's going to see Carrie, and we know that 558 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 5: she really wants to, but she's really nervous and she's 559 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 5: very afraid for him to see her. Like if she could, 560 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 5: she would just see him without being seen, that would 561 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,959 Speaker 5: be ideal. She's afraid he's going to judge her. So 562 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 5: they see each other and Carrie asks her to dance, 563 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 5: And in the past, Shiloh is someone who would never 564 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 5: say yes to to dancing with anyone, let alone Carrie. 565 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 5: Shila's like your friend who never hugs you. That's who 566 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 5: Shiloh is. So they're dancing and it's a little awkward 567 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 5: because she has a hard time relaxing. They're both headstrong 568 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 5: and they're kind of both trying to lead this dance. Okay, 569 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 5: this is Carrie starting the conversation. We're still dancing, right 570 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 5: if you want to, she said, I want to. He 571 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 5: stopped them. Here's good by the wall, away from the speaker, 572 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 5: you know, Shiloh said, we could just be talking comfortably 573 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 5: at a table. 574 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 4: We could. 575 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 5: Carrie said, he didn't like a dancing is better? Why 576 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 5: because you can talk when you're dancing, but you don't 577 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 5: have to. Then nobody else can interrupt. Somebody could cut in. 578 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 5: Nobody's going to cut in. Do you think that nobody 579 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 5: else wants to dance with me? I think that when 580 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 5: two people are slow dancing to Hey y'ah, everyone leaves 581 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 5: them alone. Shiloh frowned. She looked around. Now that you've 582 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 5: called attention to the song, it's actually hard not to dance. 583 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,239 Speaker 5: Carrie smiled. Oh, yeah, yeah, sort of. He pulled her 584 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 5: closer and started to sway faster in time with the music. 585 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 5: Shiloh laughed. Carrie held her tight, moving his shoulders back 586 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 5: and forth to the beat. Shiloh tried to move her 587 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 5: shoulders too. She was clumsier than him. She was laughing 588 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 5: and blushing. This better, Carrie asked. He was grinning with 589 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 5: his mouth closed, his eyes were light. Shiloh was laughing 590 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 5: too hard and quietly to answer. Her face fell forward. 591 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 5: She let him move her hand to the music. She 592 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 5: rocked back and forth with him and tried to relax 593 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 5: her neck. Hey yeah turned into grooves in the heart, 594 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 5: and then to Shiloh's dismay, Marky Mark and the funky bunch. 595 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 5: Carrie kept them moving. It was easier if Shiloh didn't 596 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 5: look at him, but she couldn't not look at him. 597 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 4: Was short. 598 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 5: She lifted up her chin. He looked like he'd been 599 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 5: laughing too. Who are you, she asked, I'm a grown man. 600 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 5: Carrie said like that was an answer. Shiloh laughed some more, 601 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 5: letting her forehead rest on the far edge of his shoulder. 602 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 5: She was glad they didn't have to talk, because this 603 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,239 Speaker 5: was a lot to take in, so much more than 604 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 5: she'd been hoping for tonight, more than just a good 605 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 5: look at him and a warm conversation, and it wasn't 606 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 5: over yet. To keep it going, all Shiloh had to 607 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 5: do was keep her self consciousness at bay. Her self 608 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 5: consciousness and bone deep desolation. She could be desolate tomorrow, 609 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 5: and the next day she could table her on wheat. 610 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 5: Shiloh was getting another hour with Carrie, a bonus hour 611 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 5: in his arms. Her teenage self could never have predicted 612 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 5: or even comprehend it how precious this would feel. That 613 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 5: seventeen year old had a glut of Carrie hours, all 614 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 5: the Carrie she cared to eat. Carrie was her day in, 615 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 5: day out, her standard operating procedure. Shiloh hadn't been able 616 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 5: to conceive of a life without Carrie until That's what 617 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 5: She had a whole life without him, years and years, 618 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 5: with no sign of that ever changing. This night was 619 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 5: an aberration, this dance. Shilah closed her eyes and kept 620 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 5: her shoulders loose. She kept track of everywhere that Carrie 621 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 5: was touching her. Thank you so much, Rainbow Oh, thank 622 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 5: you for asking me. It's fun to read. 623 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,360 Speaker 3: I loved hearing it. 624 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: It's our favorite part of having authors on our show, 625 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: is it Okay? 626 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really really cool. Thank you. 627 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: Our second favorite part is when we have some listener questions, 628 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: which we have right now. 629 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 6: Great. 630 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: Great, We have a question from a listener named Carrie 631 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 1: from Los Angeles. 632 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 7: Hi, this is Carrie from Los Angeles. I am such 633 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 7: a big fan of your work, Rainbow. You are a 634 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 7: go to author for me. I love how you read 635 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 7: about the complexities and nuances of all the different kinds 636 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 7: of relationships people have in their lives. There was quite 637 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 7: a bit of time between Slow Dance and your last 638 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 7: adult novel. Was there something specific that sparked the idea 639 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 7: for this book and Shiloh and Carrie's stories that made 640 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 7: you think this was the one you wanted to put 641 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 7: out next, And also, nostalgia plays such a big role 642 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 7: in the book. Was there perhaps a particular high school 643 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 7: memory of years that brought on the idea for this book? 644 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 4: Okay, that's a good question. 645 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 5: I had gone ten years between writing for adults, writing 646 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 5: an adult a clearly adult book, and also ten years 647 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 5: without writing a contemporary book set in the real world. 648 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 5: I've been writing about magicians and vampires in my Simon 649 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 5: Snow trilogy. I think part of it is what we 650 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 5: talked about earlier, that I really slowed down. I took 651 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 5: four years off from writing novels completely around the time 652 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 5: of my diagnosis and surgery and before and then part 653 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 5: of it was I just was very consumed by the 654 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 5: Simons No Books. I really love those characters, and for 655 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 5: a while I just kept feeling like the Simon and 656 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 5: Bass story was not done. And then I needed to 657 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 5: stay very close to those characters while I was writing them, 658 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 5: and so I just felt like I was dancing with 659 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 5: them for so long. And then when I looked up again, 660 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 5: and it had been ten years, and I'd been writing 661 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 5: Simon's No Books for ten years. So it wasn't really intentional. 662 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 5: It's more like my brain just doesn't usually stay in 663 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 5: one genre, and it doesn't stay with adults, it doesn't 664 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 5: stay with teen I'm always thinking like in character, and 665 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 5: it had been a while since I had an adult 666 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 5: character whose story felt like one I wanted to tell. 667 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 5: The question about nostalgia. Part of my job is to 668 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 5: talk to teen readers for these years, and I think 669 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 5: that has kept me a little bit closer to my 670 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 5: memories of what it was like to be a teenager. 671 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 5: You know, if if you never run into any teenagers, 672 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 5: maybe you can forget what you yourself was like were like 673 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 5: as a teen. But for me, talking to teenagers brings 674 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 5: back the sort of person I was, and I was 675 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 5: just was remembering that I was kind of a pill, 676 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 5: you know, I was. I'm very strong opinions, I was 677 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 5: a very binary about everything. I thought that right and 678 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 5: wrong were very clear things, and that I was really 679 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 5: dialed into what was right or wrong. So Shilah really 680 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 5: was born of those memories of myself as a teenager, 681 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 5: and I kept thinking of like writing a character who 682 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 5: had to look back on themselves and had to reckon 683 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 5: with their opinions and with their behavior as a teenager 684 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 5: with one of their closest friends. 685 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 2: Up next, we have Alisha, who was curious about how 686 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 2: you write female characters. 687 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 6: Hi, this is Alicia from Salt Lake City, and I 688 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 6: have been a fan of Rainbow's writing going all the 689 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 6: way back to Attachments, and I think the thing that 690 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 6: I love the most is the way that Rainbow Your 691 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 6: characters feel like people you've known your whole life, going 692 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 6: all the way back to kindergarten, people you went to 693 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 6: high school with, people you had your first job with. 694 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,959 Speaker 6: And I'd love to know how you write women that 695 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 6: feel so lived in, feel so seen, feel like people 696 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 6: that I recognize myself in, people that I recognize my 697 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 6: friends in, And how you just write people that seem 698 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 6: so so real. 699 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 5: That's a really kind question, but also kind of a 700 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 5: tough question. Human beings are so much more complex than 701 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,479 Speaker 5: fictional characters. You have like a million pieces of you, 702 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 5: so you kind of have a lot of things you 703 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 5: can take out and build around, and you can make 704 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 5: a million characters that are sort of like you, but 705 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 5: not really, because you know, we're just so much more conflicted. 706 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 5: A fictional character behaves with consistency, a human being really doesn't. 707 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 5: So often I'm taking a little bit of me, and 708 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 5: I'm kind of taking my problem or my thing, and 709 00:31:58,440 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 5: I'm giving it to this character to see if they 710 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 5: can work it out better than I could. But then 711 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 5: also sometimes I'm thinking of other people in my life, 712 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 5: and so I would say, like if there's like an 713 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 5: actual process that I use. I pay a lot of 714 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 5: attention to people's voices. I was a reporter for many years. 715 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 5: When you're a reporter, as you both know, you spend 716 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 5: a lot of time listening to other people talk. It's 717 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 5: not really your job to talk when you're a newspaper 718 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 5: columnist or reporter. And so I got very good, I 719 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 5: think at hearing people's voices and their patterns and the 720 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 5: sort of things that make a person sound specific. And 721 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 5: so I think I'm pretty good in my dialogue when 722 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 5: i'm writing it at being enough inside of the character 723 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 5: that that person feels like the same person talking. When 724 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 5: I'm writing a scene with a lot of people talking, 725 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 5: I want you to be able to tell who's talking, 726 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 5: even if it doesn't have the tag, Even if it 727 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 5: doesn't said, he said, she said. Jones said, so, I 728 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 5: spend a lot of time thinking about dialogue. I spend 729 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 5: a lot of time reading my books aloud, and I'm 730 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 5: always asking myself, would so and so say that? Or 731 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 5: does this sound like it would really happen. I think 732 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 5: I'm hard on myself and that I want it. I 733 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 5: want things to feel real. And I don't know why 734 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 5: I'm so hung up on that because it's fiction, it's 735 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 5: not the newspaper. But yeah, maybe that's the thing. 736 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: This has been a masterclass in writing novels. I mean, 737 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: what a treat. Thank you so much for joining us today, Rainbow, 738 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: of course, yes, thank you for having me. 739 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 4: Thank you. It was great to talk to both of you. 740 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 4: Thank you. Rainbow. 741 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: Raul is the author of Slow Dance, the August pick 742 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: for Reese's Book Club. 743 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 2: It's available wherever you get your books. That's it for 744 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 2: today's show. Tomorrow. Author and psychotherapist. 745 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 3: Catherine Morgan Schaffler's here. 746 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 2: She's telling us how we can harness our perfectionism as 747 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 2: a superpower. Listen and follow the bright Side on the 748 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 749 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 4: I'm Simone Boye. 750 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: You can find me at Simone Voice on Instagram and TikTok. 751 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 2: Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok. 752 00:33:58,320 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 3: That's ro Bay. 753 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 4: See you tomorrow, folks. 754 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: Keep looking on the bright side.