WEBVTT - Dolls and Dolls, Guys! 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:07.160 Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.600 Hey, well I should say Merry Christmas and welcome to 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.919 the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck and Cherry's here too, 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:22.799 and we bid you good tidings. You're decking your halls 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:27.160 and giving you lots of joy on this festive day. 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.080 Yeah. Yeah, we're decking your halls if you give us content, 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.760 of course to do so. Sure we would never deck halls. 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:39.920 Just willy nilly, No, I mean, oh, we're good guys. 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:44.640 That's right. Wow, this got odd very quickly. 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:50.080 This is our annual sort of toy episode, and we've 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:53.800 covered some specific dolls in the past, notably Cabbage Patch Kids, 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.400 and you had the brainstorm like what about just dolls? 0:00:57.400 --> 0:00:59.560 What the heck is up with those weird little things. 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:03.040 I sat up in the middle of the night one 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:05.240 night and went dolls, right, and he. 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:09.160 Was like, that's what happened, and she was holding a 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:10.839 chatty Cathy. 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:14.080 That's right. Oh, I can't wait to get to that part. 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:18.600 Oh my gosh. Yeah, we're talking about dolls themselves, and 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.440 it is a pretty broad category. But actually it's a 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.360 little more specific than I realized. Chuck and One of 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.039 the things that right off the bat that I had 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:31.400 no idea about is that there's almost no specific definition 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.560 of dolls. No one can can make an actual set definition. 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:36.920 The reason why is because you're like, well what about this? 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.399 Well what about that? Anytime you try to alter the 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:45.160 definition to please everybody, it's the best example of how 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:49.760 you can please some people some of the time, but 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:51.120 not everybody ever. 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:55.280 That old saying, yeah, that old saying. The definition that 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:59.760 we agreed on was a doll is a toy, and 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:01.840 we all know what a doll looks like. It's like 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.560 a model of usually a human type figure. 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:07.280 I saw that it has to be human to be 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:08.120 considered a doll. 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.400 Sometimes it's a baby, sometimes it's a grown up. It's 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:13.320 not an action figure. We kind of covered that difference 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:17.359 in our Gi Joe episode. But what a dolls specifically 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:19.959 is beyond just looking like a human is it aids 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:22.840 in kids development. There have been plenty and plenty of 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.000 studies over the years that have reinforced the fact that 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.440 dolls teach kids a lot of things, a lot of 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:34.440 great things, empathy and patience and recognizing emotions, among many 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:34.960 other things. 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.880 Yes, so just real quick that excludes. That definition excludes 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.880 things like puppets like you said, action figure statuettes, but 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:48.360 it also, I think, very weirdly excludes animal dolls like 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:53.519 stuffed animals. Okay, okay. And then one other thing I 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.560 would add to the definition is that they have to 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.520 be in some way, shape or form huggable. 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:04.880 Okay. It So, recognizing emotions is a big one for kids, 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.600 as long as holding onto dolls like reckon, because a 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:09.880 lot of times the kid will be like the surrogate 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.079 for what the kid might be feeling. You know, Chatty 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:17.440 Kathy is feeling bored or angry, and that means the 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:19.480 kid's not comfortable saying that to the parents, so they 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:21.399 talk through the doll, but not in a creepy way. 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:23.800 Is Chatty Kathy your go to doll? 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:27.720 M so far, I'll move on to Betsy Wetsy soon enough. 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:30.880 Chatty Kathy is pretty fun to say. 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:31.799 Yeah. 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.840 Another thing this is also I think a playroom Collective 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:37.720 laid out some good examples and these are some of 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.360 the ones that they said. Another one is practicing caregiving, 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:44.600 where it can be anything from changing the doll's diapers 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:48.800 to comforting the doll when it's sad or scared, and 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:53.240 that teaches emotional availability, teaches problem solving, and then it 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:57.480 also requires perspective taking, because just because the doll is 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.280 scared or sad doesn't mean the kid feels it way 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.120 right right then, so that means that the kid is 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.400 learning how to put themselves in other people's shoes and 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.760 understand how other people can feel differently than how you 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.640 can at the time, and it helps with empathy. 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:15.640 Yeah, they can put themselves in their tiny, little one 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:19.719 inch shiny pat and leather shoe. That's right, that chatty 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:25.159 Kathy has right. If you you know, want to talk 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.520 about traditional gender roles, we're going to talk a lot 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:31.720 about that. Because dolls have long been associated with girlhood. 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.359 That wasn't always the case. It started by like the 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.440 nineteen forties. By the turn of the century, toys were 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:42.359 kind of marketed, you know, to boys and girls equally. 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.200 But in the nineteen forties they were like, hey, we 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.040 could probably sell a lot more stuff if we really 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.240 market one thing to girls and one thing to boys. 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:52.200 And then all of a sudden, we're buying twice as 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:53.120 much stuff. 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.280 In that nuts. That's that's apparently where gender toys came from. 0:04:56.279 --> 0:05:00.520 Totally Around that same time, too, pink became the color 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.000 for girls and blue for boys. And it didn't come 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.520 from nowhere. We've talked about it before, but it used 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.080 to be the opposite where pink was for boys and 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:11.280 blue for girls because pink it was a red tone, 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:13.640 and red tones were considered too harsh for girls at 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:14.080 the time. 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.159 That's right. I never thought of pink being a red tone, 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:17.920 but it totally is. 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.240 Yeah, for sure, you can't deny it, Chuck. 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.200 There was a study in twenty seventeen that more than 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:26.839 this is interesting, more than three quarters of the people 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.880 that were surveyed said it was really good to encourage 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:33.880 girls to play with like boys, toys or do boy things, 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.280 and it went up to eighty percent for women and 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.080 millennials saying that, but when it came to boys only 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.919 sixty four percent. So there are far fewer families saying, 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.960 you know, William, you should play with your doll reference 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:50.599 to Free to Be You and Me, the great song 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:52.960 William Wants a Doll, And there are way way more 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.240 families telling their girls like, you should go play with 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:56.520 trucks or rough house. 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:58.440 Yeah, go jump off that dirt pile. 0:05:58.680 --> 0:05:59.360 Yeah. 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.240 So yeah, that clearly means we have a long way 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.880 to go still, but there, you know, there are a 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:11.880 lot of dolls that have made headway in empowering girls, 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:16.640 showing that women can take like male of jobs and 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:20.080 male dominated feels like Barbie has a million different careers, 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.920 a lot of them like engineering and science and technology. 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.680 She's been to space, for God's sake, And I think 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.760 American girl dolls, there's one girl at least who has 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:34.960 a backstory where she has lesbian aunts who live in Australia. 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.440 Randomly enough, and then of course, Chuck, we couldn't possibly 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.800 talk about how Earring magic Kin was in a groundbreaking doll. 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:46.159 Yeah, I mean Earring magic Ken came out nineteen ninety three. 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:49.840 You take one look at Earring magic Ken and it's 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:54.040 pretty clear that it's a queer coded doll. He has 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.680 his diamond stud earring in one ear. He's wearing a 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:01.440 purple mesh crop top. There was some controversy surrounding the 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.440 necklace he wore that I won't even get into because 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:06.000 this is a Christmas episode, but you can look it 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.200 up if you wants. Saw that too, and of course 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.360 Mittel was like, that's preposterous. This is a kid's story, 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:16.280 but it was very hot in the gay community, selling 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:20.400 out all over the place. Maybe the hottest selling well, 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:22.680 definitely the hottest selling kin doll of all time, maybe 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.280 the best selling of all time. Mattel won't say, but 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:28.040 it's sold for six months like any ordinary sort of 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:31.840 special release Barbie, and evidently sold like hotcakes. 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.480 Yeah, and one other feature that was often overlooked. He 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:37.720 had a pull cord that made him talk, and the 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.160 only thing he said is the boys are out tonight. 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.239 So Chuck, I say we move on to the history 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.200 of dolls. You want to talk about that, or even 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:48.760 where the word doll came from. 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.160 Yeah, this is something I didn't know. It's a doll 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.480 was a nickname for Dorothy. I always thought dot was 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:58.400 the only nickname for Dorothy. But apparently dating back to 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.200 like at least the sixteenth century, that was a weird 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.720 thing happening when people would substitute l's for rs. So 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:08.160 Harold could be how Mary could be moll or Molly 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:09.200 and Dorothy could be doll. 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.800 Yeah. It was a bigger tren than slap bracelets is today. 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:13.480 Oh wow. 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.320 So the earliest use of the word doll goes back 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.520 to the fifteen hundreds, and it was a pet name 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.080 for a girlfriend or spouse. Right, You didn't just have 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:24.920 to be named Dorothy and that be your nickname. 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:29.080 It was extended, give me a doll, yeah, doll face for. 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.160 Ye exactly right. So you're like, it's a term of 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.160 endearment for a girlfriend or a spouse. A century later 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:38.360 it became an insult for a loose woman. So everybody 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:42.960 got dumped apparently. And then by around seventeen hundred it 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.440 was finally used to describe a child's toy, to say, 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:48.679 this is a doll, and people are like, well, wait 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.319 a minute, what about stuffed animals? What about marionettes? 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.320 Then someone said, you think a puppet is a doll? 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:57.720 Yeah? They said, had a psychle? Are you? 0:08:57.960 --> 0:08:59.320 So many people think that they're going to have to 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:00.880 explain that on a one day. 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.160 They're like, you think a hot dog is a sandwich? 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:08.199 Why is that doll got strings coming out of it? Well? 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:12.319 Speaking of strings, yeah, there's some strings in these dolls. 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:16.320 Ancient dolls Egyptian paddle dolls that date back to the 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:20.120 Middle Kingdom like two thousand to eighteen hundred BCE. They 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.360 were a flat piece of wood, so they weren't, you know, 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.760 human shaped as far as three dimension three dimensionality goes, 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:31.480 but they were cut like a woman's torso, and they 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:35.800 had tattoo like designs and hair made out of bead strings. 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.320 But archaeologists are like, this isn't really a doll doll. 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.480 I think it was more like a percussion instrument for 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.160 like religious rituals. You could shake that thing. 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.120 They do think in the ancient world that dolls played 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:51.600 dual roles. One was for rituals like you were just describing, 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:53.960 and then also that they were for play in the 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:57.760 same way that dolls can develop children today. They were 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.359 used to kind of indoctrinate kids into culture and society. 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.400 And they're basing that in part on how there's still 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:07.520 dolls like that around today, like the a Kua Ba 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.319 of the Fonte and Acan people of Ghana. They have 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.559 ritual dolls that kids also play with at the same time. 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:18.080 Yeah, well, the dolls in ancient Rome were definitely sort 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.320 of the early barbies because they were not baby dolls. 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:23.760 They were dolls that looked like grown up Roman women, 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:26.840 and the girls who played with them were like it 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:28.920 was just like having a barbie. It was like here 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.760 is what we think. The idealized image of a Roman 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:35.400 woman is a wife and a mother, and here go 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.240 play with this thing and try and look like that 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:37.640 one day. 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:45.160 So even before the Romans, they found dolls in Greek burials, 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.160 and the reason why they found them is because girls 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.559 would play with dolls. When they got married, they would consecrate, 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:55.400 they would sacrifice essentially the dolls to Artemis in exchange 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.280 for fertility in their marriage, and then if they never 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:04.199 got married, they were buried with their dolls. Isn't that bittersweet? 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:09.439 Mmm? Kind of just bitter? Okay, I'm looking for the sweet. 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:11.120 I guess you're buried with your toy that you loved. 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:14.160 Yeah, that's a sweet part, for sure. It's like the 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:15.920 newgat of that situation. 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.839 All right, I'll take it. All right. We promised talk 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:23.680 of Aerosmith, and they're a great, great, great song rag Doll. 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:28.480 I thought the same thing too, coming up and see me. 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:31.320 That's a new version of an old singing. 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.040 Oh, I guess that song's okay. That was late Aerosmith. 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:37.600 They put out a bunch of songs like that for 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:37.960 a while. 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:42.000 Oh, I can't imagine how bad the subtext. 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.640 Is though, Oh, sure. I never really thought about that, 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:46.320 but you're right, I think yeah, I don't know if 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.280 there is an Aerosmith song where there wasn't a sexual subtext, 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:50.280 you know, I don't. 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.520 Think so either they were really into sex. 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:55.440 Oh no, that loving an elevator song that was just 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:56.920 anging about elevators going up and down. 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.199 That's right, sponsored by the Otis Corporation. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:04.480 That's right. Oh man, I'm glad you could call that up. 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.760 Rag dolls not Aerosmith, but you know, the little floppy 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.160 dolls made out of fabric and not you know, hard 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.920 dolls that you can bang against the wall. They have 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.280 been around for a long long time, since the ancient world. 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.400 But because they were made out of things like you know, 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.400 cloth and linen and cotton and things like that, they 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.840 would disappear before our very eyes over thousands of years. 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.200 So there's not a ton of examples of those, but 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:31.880 there are some, right, Yeah. 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:34.520 But it also raises the question like how long have 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.200 humans been playing with dolls? We have no idea for 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.320 that very reason, because almost certainly dolls would have been 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.000 made out of perishable materials very early on. But yeah, 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.920 the oldest we found is two thousand years old. Chuck. 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:51.520 It was found in a trash pile in Egypt, and 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.480 it was linen stuff with some papyrus. I had some 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.000 paint on it at one point, but now all that's left. 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.680 There's a single bead that was once attached to its hair. 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:04.720 So but it's two thousand years old, so give it 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:05.319 a break, you. 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:06.840 Know, Yeah, sure of course. 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.600 Well what about in North America, there's a doll that 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.280 says I'm the oldest, and everyone says, yes, you are. 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:14.959 Yes, that's right. There is a rag doll, the oldest 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.160 rag doll in North America. It belonged to a little 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:21.080 girl who was blind named clarissas Field from Massachusetts. And 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:25.000 the girl, the actual girl, was born in seventeen sixty five. 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.080 And I think this is a great deep cut band name. 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:30.199 She named her doll Bangwell Putt. 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.160 Yeah, it is a great band name for sure. 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.120 Because no one will know what it is except for 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:36.960 the rare stuff. You should know a listener and then 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.400 be like, bruh, you named your band Bangwell Butt after 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:41.520 the oldest rag doll. 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:47.280 Or Visitors to the Pacomattock Valley Memorial Association in Deerfield, 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:49.600 mass which is where it's kept now. 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.080 Yeah, I guess they would know that, but they're the 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:54.760 I guess you could call it creepy looking. I didn't 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.800 find it that creepy. But this dog, this dog, this 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.679 doll has no facial features. There's just a blank face. 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:07.040 But there are ten individually sewn fingers and thumbs, which 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:11.000 might be a reason that young Clarissa, like I mentioned, 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:15.920 she was blind and it might have sort of indicated 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:17.280 the importance of touch for her. 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:23.680 Yeah, I saw that the no face rag doll may 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.840 have actually evolved out of the tradition from corn husk dolls, 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:31.520 which didn't have faces, because some of the northeastern North 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:37.400 America tribes had legends about why the corn goddess removed 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:41.120 the face of the corn husk doll because she was 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:43.920 getting too vain. So that's why cornhust dolls don't have 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:47.840 a face, and that's possibly why rag doll dolls don't 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:49.960 have a face either, Like bangwill putt. 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.320 Like Bangwell put would to be clear, no facial features. 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.600 There's a face, but there's no eyes, nose, or mouth 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.480 or you know, eyebrows, all the things that make a face. 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:03.960 What about eyelashes, No eyelashes, no pimples, no freckles, pores, 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:08.440 no frinkles, no wrinkles, no pores. What else is on 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:09.680 the face. I'm looking at my face. 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.640 Um nose, hair, beard. 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:16.400 Nose, hair, mustache. All right, I think we covered it. 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:20.000 Okay, I know for a fact we left something like 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.120 the mouth out, something super glaring. 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.280 Oh, I said mouth, and inside the mouth everything counts 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.160 his mouth. So don't come at me with teeth and 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:28.480 tongue exactly. 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:30.200 I'm glad you said that chuck. 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:31.920 That should be on the shirt. Don't come at me 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:36.440 with teeth and tongue. It's the stuff you should know. Whey, Yeah, 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.320 what about Victorian dolls. 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.920 Well, this is where really where doll obsessions I think 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:45.920 kind of starting to take off, because up to this 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.480 point rag dolls, like you got to be a pretty 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:52.520 niche collector to be collecting like eighteenth century rag dolls. 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.520 Victorian dolls is where people are like, give me all 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.440 of these. And one of the reasons why is because 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:03.760 doll making became a real art by the fifteenth century, 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.480 and the seat of it originally was Germany. They had 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:11.000 doc and mockers, which are doll makers, and they were 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.800 for aristocratic families who were the only ones that could 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.960 afford these things because they were works of art. 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:21.880 Yeah, works of art that very key Lee looked like them. 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:26.200 They really showed their sort of obsession with their own 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:30.040 selves and their own class. They were made from porcelain, 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:33.080 and not because that was just some superior material. They 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.040 were literally made from porcelain because they thought that represented 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.960 the ideal skin tone, that porcelain white. They were dressed 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:45.800 very fashionably obviously, they had human hair wigs, apparently from 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.160 the hair of working class girls. And they were true 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:50.040 status symbols. 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:54.120 Yeah, like you would be painted with them a portrait. 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:56.640 That's pretty big status symbol at. 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:58.440 The time, right, Yeah, for sure. 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:00.960 So one of my favorite things Dave helped us with this. 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:05.280 Think big head tip to Dave and Merry Christmas Day. 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:11.000 And apparently around the time of Prince Albert's death he 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.600 was trapped in a can. He died in eighteen sixty one. 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:18.520 It's Queen Victoria's husband. By the way, like funerals in 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:22.560 mourning like became all the rage we often associate like 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:27.320 mourning and death stuff and memento mariy with Victorians and 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:31.280 this is why, and so dolls were not immune to 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.399 this trend. And little girls were given death kits to 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:35.560 use with their dolls. 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:38.520 Yeah, so like here's your doll, and here's your little 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.560 baby coffin and your little outfit that you should wear, 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:43.960 and they would you know, when you play doll, you 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.119 play all kinds of facets of life. And that's one 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.760 of the things about dolls that you'll see over and 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:53.040 over is you know, whether you're pretending to be a 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.960 you know, cooking dinner in your home, or you're doing 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.800 other household things, or you're you know, now your mourning 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.240 because somebody has died, so you're sort of acting out 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:05.959 and these things that you would do later as adults, 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.720 which again is another sort of important facet of dolls. 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.840 But today it's like, if your kid is acting out 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:14.960 a funeral with their doll, it would be eye catching, 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:17.560 attention grabbing, I think. 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:19.760 Yeah, I mean, you might sign them up for therapy 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:21.680 or something, when in fact I think it's a pretty 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:22.240 normal thing. 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:24.640 I think it is too, but it would definitely make 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.960 you stop and say, like, hey, what you doing with 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.960 your doll right now? Yeah, for sure, Like you wouldn't 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.080 just pass the room and see it and just walk 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:35.240 off shaking your head and laughing and be like my kid. 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:37.320 Yeah, you do the darnest things. 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:40.480 I want to hear though, if anybody has a kid 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.439 and they've ever found their kid performing a funeral for 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:45.080 their doll, I want to hear about it. 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:46.840 Yeah, that'd be a good listener mail. 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.679 So, dollhouses also really kind of came around at this 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.439 time too, like the dollhouse, as we think about it, Yeah, 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:56.679 and that was thanks to the Victorians. And that's why 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:01.280 dollhouses are always very nice and big, because they were 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:05.760 basically what the Victorian aristocracy thought that houses should look 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.199 like at the time. And again, remember you said that 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.639 Victorian girls were being trained to how to behave in 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:15.280 society through their dolls. Same thing with the dollhouse too. 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:19.360 It's like, here's the scullery, here's the bathroom with indoor plumbing, 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.600 Like these are all the things you need to demand 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:24.080 and expect when you grow up and get married. 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:26.080 Yeah, ring this bell if you're hungry. 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:26.840 Hey. 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:29.440 So, you know, we talked a little bit about the 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:35.640 complicated history of race and facial features when it comes 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:37.840 to race and skin tone and stuff like that with dolls, 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.440 and so we have a whole kind of robust section 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:44.439 here on the history of black dolls, because it's a 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.560 pretty complex story. Yeah, as far as race and self 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:51.199 image goes. And the first one we're going to talk 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:53.240 about it is called the topsy Turvy doll. It's a 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.639 really good example because it was a doll that had 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.640 two heads. It had a long skirt to conceal sort 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:02.520 of one side. One head was white, one head was black. 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:05.240 And you know, depending on which way you held the doll, 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:06.960 you were playing with a white doll or a black doll. 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:11.159 And people, you know, there isn't text that says exactly 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:14.359 why this thing was invented, but everyone pretty much agrees, 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.040 like scholars that have studied this thing, is that it 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:22.080 originated in the Antebellum South. They were made by enslaved 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:27.280 black women as dolls for their daughters, and the idea is, hey, 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.200 we have to take care of the white kids during 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:32.240 the day, and then we have to take care of 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:35.520 our own children at night. And if dolls are to 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:37.920 represent what you are to be doing when you grow 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.040 up or maybe you know later on in your life, 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:43.000 then you need a two headed doll to care for 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:45.360 the white doll in the day and the black doll 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:45.760 at night. 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:51.040 Yeah, that's not the worst of how the whole thing started. 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:55.040 The Jim Crow South, the Jim Crow era saw the 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:57.639 rise of a lot of very racist dolls that were 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:02.160 available you could buy from catalogs like Montgomery Ward, which 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:06.240 is not surprising. But the thing to understand about that 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:13.800 is that this helped lay the groundwork for reinforcing social 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:19.359 norms about the inferiority of black people in America and 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:23.800