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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I love good of stuff.

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Speaker 1: I've never told you pro action of iHeart radio. And

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Speaker 1: today we have a bit of a shorter Monday Mini

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Speaker 1: for you, a revisits on boundaries and guilts and women,

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Speaker 1: which I think is timely because we are going into.

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Speaker 2: A holiday weekend, which for.

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Speaker 1: Us, or I'll speak for myself for me, is often

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Speaker 1: difficult to maintain boundaries around.

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Speaker 2: But I'm trying really hard.

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Speaker 1: This time, trying very very hard. Do you have any

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Speaker 1: any plans for the holiday weekend?

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Speaker 3: No, My answer is always though. I'm probably gonna be

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Speaker 3: doing some KJAMA watching, be working. See this is what

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Speaker 3: I don't have boundaries because I just work whenever. But

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Speaker 3: I will be doing some research about k pop, which

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Speaker 3: is our upcoming episode.

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Speaker 4: We'll be doing that pretty soon, releasing that pretty soon.

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Speaker 4: And there's a lot of things happening in a K

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Speaker 4: pop world.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I'm trying to be all cool and

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Speaker 3: trendy and keeping up with the latest.

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Speaker 4: I'm cool, Anny, I know you are.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: That's what I always say. That is my cool friend.

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Speaker 2: That was okay, No, no, I you know me. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna be reading and writing fan fiction I do have

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Speaker 2: to clean.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to. I have a lot of things

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Speaker 1: I put off cleaning.

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Speaker 3: Wise that I sent you some homework, so while you're cleaning,

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Speaker 3: you could actually be doing your homework.

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Speaker 2: It's true.

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Speaker 1: But I have to, As I talked about in a

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Speaker 1: recent happy hour, I believe I have to like sneak

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Speaker 1: my drain, and I think it's just going to be

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Speaker 1: so miserable. So I don't know that I want to

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Speaker 1: associate that you sent me, but yes, yes, I mean

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Speaker 1: there's plenty of time, plenty of time.

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Speaker 2: To do these things. But I've been thinking.

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Speaker 1: About boundaries lately, and we've talked about it before several

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Speaker 1: times on here and my struggle with them, and it

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Speaker 1: was kind of there was a lot of catalyst for

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Speaker 1: me wanting to talk about this again, and one was

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Speaker 1: I think about a month ago you told me you

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Speaker 1: had you felt some guilt because you had a friend

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Speaker 1: ask you, you know, hey, can we hang out soon?

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Speaker 1: And you said, like try middle.

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Speaker 2: Of June.

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Speaker 4: Exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I definitely had this moment because we are really busy

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Speaker 3: right now, and May is filled with so many things.

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Speaker 3: Whether I have a lot of people's birthdays in May,

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Speaker 3: as well as we have events like graduation and all

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Speaker 3: these things and family get togethers. And then on top

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Speaker 3: of that, yes, we have an audiobook coming that we

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Speaker 3: have to record, and we have to take a full

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Speaker 3: week out. And when we take time off and we're

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Speaker 3: not really taking time off, this is still work. We

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Speaker 3: have to plan ahead. And because we release a new

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Speaker 3: episode almost every day, at least five days a week,

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Speaker 3: that's so much planning to do, because that doesn't include

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Speaker 3: us actually researching. And as you know, when we research,

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Speaker 3: and we've talked about how much information that we get,

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Speaker 3: how long it really takes.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 3: So a person who haven't seen I think in years,

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Speaker 3: I want to say, maybe pre covid sit a message

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Speaker 3: and was like, we'd love to catch up. We want

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Speaker 3: to talk to you, like it already started. The message

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Speaker 3: started out bad because apparently she tried to contact me

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Speaker 3: and I hadn't responded. So her message was, I don't

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Speaker 3: know if this is still your number. I really hope

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Speaker 3: it is. Just let me know or I'll stop trying.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh no, that doesn't mean to It

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Speaker 3: just happens to be like she's one of those friends

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Speaker 3: that are in the periphery. I like her, I love

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Speaker 3: her to death, but I just you know, we don't

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Speaker 3: hang out like that. And I have such a hard

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Speaker 3: time even keeping up with the friends that I am

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Speaker 3: close to. Literally the people that I'm closest to I

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Speaker 3: probably see every couple of weeks, including you. I don't

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Speaker 3: think we've hung out like that. We weren't, and I

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Speaker 3: see you at least twice a week, but that doesn't

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Speaker 3: mean we're not We're hanging out, and we don't do

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Speaker 3: that as much, especially since the last of us has stopped, right,

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Speaker 3: So all of those things, and I'm like, okay, I

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Speaker 3: really do want to hang out, but that takes a

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Speaker 3: whole day and all these things.

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Speaker 4: So the best thing I could do is second.

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Speaker 3: Week of June radio silence and so bad because it

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Speaker 3: doesn't sound it's so snobby, but I'm like, no, but

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Speaker 3: this is the only way I can do this, and

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Speaker 3: I have to be honest without putting it aside and

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Speaker 3: trying to like prush it back and just be nonchalot

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to give you a very direct answer. I'm

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Speaker 4: so sorry.

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Speaker 1: See that in our last half hour about sex and

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Speaker 1: the City, about the double booking. Like a lot of

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Speaker 1: times I get in trouble with that, not with like dating, yep,

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Speaker 1: with hanging out with friends. So I feel like you

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Speaker 1: were doing like a very responsible thing. I do get,

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Speaker 1: you know, the other side of like middle of June.

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Speaker 1: But I'm in the boat, the same boat as you.

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Speaker 1: So after you told me this and you told me

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Speaker 1: how guilty you felt, and I was kind of like, ah,

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Speaker 1: it happened to me. So I had recently gone through

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Speaker 1: this other podcast saver, I'd gone to Vegas and then

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Speaker 1: I came back and I did Mother's Day and these

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Speaker 1: are all great things, but I was very like overwhelmed

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Speaker 1: and stressed and tired. And we have this audiobook coming up.

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Speaker 1: I'm working on this thirteen days at Halloween. Look I'm

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Speaker 1: doing the thing I'm about to Okay. So, so I

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Speaker 1: had a good friend of mine who's been on the

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Speaker 1: show Katie, like really good friends, and Marissa asked me

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Speaker 1: to hang out the week I got back from Vegas.

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Speaker 1: And originally I was like, I think so, like it's

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Speaker 1: going to depend on work, and then it sort of

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Speaker 1: became a thing where I was like anxious about it

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Speaker 1: because I was like I really should say no. Like

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Speaker 1: I really should say no, I am stressed. I have

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Speaker 1: all this stuff to do. I should say no. But

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Speaker 1: as you also know, I've been struggling with like I

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Speaker 1: don't like the idea of always putting work first. This

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Speaker 1: is something I do a lot. But anyway, I always

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Speaker 1: give myself like, once this date comes, I'll be done

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Speaker 1: with this. Right, once this comes, I'll be done with this,

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Speaker 1: and then it never ends. But but so they were

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Speaker 1: kind of like trying to just nail down hey, like

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Speaker 1: what are we doing?

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Speaker 2: Are we hanging out with you or are we hanging out?

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Speaker 2: What are we doing?

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Speaker 1: And I said kind of like a text message version

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Speaker 1: of a meltdown where I just did what I just did,

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Speaker 1: I did via tech for us, like I have to

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Speaker 1: do this, and I have to do this, and I

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Speaker 1: also have to do this, and on top of that,

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Speaker 1: I have this and you know, they were friends, and

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Speaker 1: they were very much like Okay, that's a lot. And

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Speaker 1: then I felt bad. I felt so guilty and I

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Speaker 1: was like I'm sorry. I know, like I'm complaining about

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Speaker 1: going to Vegas and they were like no, no, no, don't

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Speaker 1: worry about it. And I like gave all these excuses

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Speaker 1: of like I'm so sorry. I just feel bad. I

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Speaker 1: feel bad, and it actually brought me to tears. I cried,

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Speaker 1: Oh no, and it was.

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Speaker 2: That's what I was like.

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Speaker 1: All I did was kind of, you know, maybe sloppily,

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Speaker 1: but express a.

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Speaker 4: Boundary with a lot of guilt and sorry.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And it just made me think because it

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Speaker 1: has been a struggle. It has been a struggle for

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Speaker 1: me throughout this whole pandemic, like throughout my whole life,

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Speaker 1: but like in the pandemic, that was sort of the thing.

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, I'm not going out anymore, shouldn't

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Speaker 1: this not be a problem anymore? Like it's still there,

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Speaker 1: and so this was like an instance of me trying

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Speaker 1: to do it and I felt so bad that I cried.

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Speaker 3: After I get to the point that I'm very stressed

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Speaker 3: out and in the end, I would rather spend quality

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Speaker 3: time instead of time that I'm freaking out trying to

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Speaker 3: plan my next move and trying to get past it,

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Speaker 3: like literally just checking it off instead of spending quality time.

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Speaker 3: And if I'm stressed, if I'm thinking about the next moves,

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Speaker 3: if I'm double booked, or if I'm trying to get

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Speaker 3: onto the next thing, I'm not spending quality time, and

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Speaker 3: it does.

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Speaker 4: It kind of comes down to a breakdown. You're like,

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Speaker 4: this is not worth it is.

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Speaker 3: I want to see you, but I don't feel like

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Speaker 3: I'm actually seeing you, right.

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Speaker 2: And you know, that's something we've talked about before. Situations

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Speaker 2: can vary, certainly, but a lot of times people at

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Speaker 2: least when I what the things I'm thinking of, they

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Speaker 2: were fine with me being like I can't do it right.

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Speaker 1: Now, like they were not, I hope, unless they're like

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Speaker 1: seething secretly, like not like oh this girl, i'mbout behind

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Speaker 1: the back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean, and it can sound the thing.

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Speaker 1: The thing also is, though I think it's hard for

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Speaker 1: me to express the one. Our schedules are not always

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Speaker 1: predictable in our job, So it's like I can't tell

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Speaker 1: you for sure right like maybe that day will be fine,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not sure, which is not a great answer,

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Speaker 1: Like I get that.

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Speaker 2: But also.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes especially on like days when we've been recording all day,

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Speaker 1: I can't just go from that to hanging out right.

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Speaker 1: I need like at least an hour to to kind

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Speaker 1: of come down from it. Like I said, I get

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Speaker 1: nervous doing this. Still, it's still kind of a thing

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Speaker 1: that it's like my brain switches into a different mode.

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Speaker 1: So I don't want to like leave that and go

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Speaker 1: right way to hanging out right.

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Speaker 3: I thought about this the other day. Because we do

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Speaker 3: work from home, it doesn't look like we're working that hard,

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Speaker 3: I think, right, because I'm literally just in my guest

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Speaker 3: room office all day long, and I'm kind of peddling

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Speaker 3: about listening to music but still working. And then when

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Speaker 3: I'm done, I leave it. But it looks like that

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Speaker 3: I'm just doing the same thing again, So I feel

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Speaker 3: guilty that I'm not doing something else, even though I'm like, no,

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Speaker 3: but I have worked.

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Speaker 4: I've been working.

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Speaker 3: It's been work, even though I'm sitting at the computer

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Speaker 3: and I'm not left my house and yes, I'm still

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Speaker 3: in pajamas.

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Speaker 4: Maybe I haven't brushed my hair. I have been working,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 3: And it it feels like a whole different tone of

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Speaker 3: trying to show that that they may have been hard,

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Speaker 3: even though what it seems like on papers we're staring

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Speaker 3: at each other through a webcam recording like that's what you.

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Speaker 4: Know, what I mean, whole different conversation.

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Speaker 3: And then when we come with like the anxiety of

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Speaker 3: the performances that we have to have because essentially speaking

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Speaker 3: and being published as a performance in itself, that gives

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Speaker 3: me a lot of anxiety. Having this book coming out

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Speaker 3: gives me a lot of anxiety. Talking about trying to

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Speaker 3: produce and read off a book that you wrote in

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Speaker 3: front of people you've never met in a studio you've

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Speaker 3: never been to makes me anxious. And even though it's

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Speaker 3: a couple of weeks away, I'm freaking out like that

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Speaker 3: all that stuff, and so coming into company, if you

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Speaker 3: don't understand what I'm saying, this is your You're gonna

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Speaker 3: be like, why why are you here?

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Speaker 4: Then?

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Speaker 2: Right? Right? I mean, that's true, that's true.

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Speaker 1: It's such an interesting like juxtaphysician as well of like

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Speaker 1: we've talked about this before where I want to be

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Speaker 1: invited to things and when people tell me they went

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Speaker 1: to face and I'm like, oh, but also I probably

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have.

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Speaker 2: Been in the company, probably didn't want to go.

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Speaker 3: I get the comment more so than anytime is more like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I didn't actually think you would come, like the class that.

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Speaker 4: I actually showed up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I think that's part of it too,

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Speaker 1: of trying to because we do kind of mostly work

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Speaker 1: from home on our laptops on whatever device in pj's

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Speaker 1: and I feel like I at least have part of

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Speaker 1: this is my own doing, because I have said a

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Speaker 1: true statement, which is I'm pretty flexible because we're lucky

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Speaker 1: that our jobs in a lot of way, a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways is pretty flexible, and that I have I

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Speaker 1: feel like I have let get out of hand like

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Speaker 1: I they are flexible, but I do have like work

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Speaker 1: to do, and I think that I guess what I'm

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Speaker 1: saying is this is not because I read a lot

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Speaker 1: of articles about boundaries for this episode, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of it was like people not listening to your boundaries,

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Speaker 1: which is sometimes what is happening, But a lot of

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Speaker 1: times it's it's me that has partly been like, hey, no,

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Speaker 1: I can hang out. I can hang out when I'm

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Speaker 1: in a good mood. I'm like, oh yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 2: And then like later several hours later, I'm like why

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Speaker 2: did you say?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 4: The quick change like how do I get down this now?

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Speaker 1: And then I feel too guilty to get out of it,

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Speaker 1: which again a lot of people don't care.

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Speaker 2: They really don't care.

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Speaker 4: I mean it's constant they do care. But it was

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Speaker 4: like going through. Uh, for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's that's the big conversation is I've

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Speaker 3: got I've gotten to the place and maybe it's because

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Speaker 3: I'm getting into my mid forties and I'm like I

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Speaker 3: don't care anymore that I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna

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Speaker 3: say no, or I'm just not going to say anything

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Speaker 3: until the last minute so I don't have to commit

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Speaker 3: to you. And I don't feel bad about it because

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm just going to stay home unless it's

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Speaker 3: like I will never say no to someone in crisis.

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Speaker 3: I will never even if it's like feels heavy and

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Speaker 3: I'm like I don't want to deal with this today,

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Speaker 3: I will never say no. But if it's not a

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Speaker 3: crisis and we're just hanging out, and even though I

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Speaker 3: do want to hang out with you, if that means

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Speaker 3: extra effort that I don't want to put in, I'm

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Speaker 3: probably gonna say no and be okay with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which is good. I think that's a good place

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Speaker 2: to be.

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Speaker 1: Uh, you're also really good at like, well they would

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Speaker 1: show up for me, I'll show it for them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're good at that too.

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Speaker 3: That I feel like we have to support, like it it's.

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Speaker 4: A give and take.

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Speaker 3: I am very dependable in that way. If you've been there,

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Speaker 3: I'll be there. Mm hmmm, yeah, well noted, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I guess this was the first time I felt

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Speaker 1: such I felt guilt before, but like I've made strides,

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Speaker 1: but clearly I'm still It's difficult, right, It's difficult, And

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Speaker 1: I did find some quotes about it. So here's one.

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Speaker 1: For many people, guilt is a default emotion. No matter

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Speaker 1: what you do or what you say, you'll be faced

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Speaker 1: with guilt about the way you handled the situation, and

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Speaker 1: that isn't fair or accurate. Barelli is said to combat

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Speaker 1: the guilt you may feel after setting boundaries, figure out

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Speaker 1: if you're someone who's default is feeling guilty after tough situations,

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Speaker 1: which I think is a good point, like if so

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Speaker 1: much of this is kind of internal of like maybe

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Speaker 1: someone isn't making you feel guilty. Maybe they are, but

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Speaker 1: maybe they're not, and you just feel guilty. That's something

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Speaker 1: to examine something else else. So this is heavily related

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Speaker 1: to our people Pleasers episode that we did, So here's

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Speaker 1: another quote. A boundary setting is going to be particularly

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Speaker 1: tough for those who are people pleasers, or if you're

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Speaker 1: self worth tends to come from meeting the needs of

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Speaker 1: other people, and I think that is something that I have. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And the quote goes on for people who fall into

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Speaker 1: this category and may be hard not to think in extremes,

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Speaker 1: which could include, is this person still going to want

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Speaker 1: to be friends with me after I set a boundary?

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Speaker 1: Really added And this could even bring up concerns like

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Speaker 1: maybe the relationship only works because I elevate someone else's

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Speaker 1: needs all the time, she said, And in the case

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Speaker 1: of boundaries, you're doing the opposite of prioritizing someone else's needs.

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Speaker 1: You're making your needs the priority and leaving a loved

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Speaker 1: one's needs unmet. So I feel like this for me,

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Speaker 1: this is definitely and we've talked about this too, of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they'll never hang out with me again if I say no,

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Speaker 1: Like what will I do? But also a lot of

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Speaker 1: the conversations we've had around women and selflessness and entertaining

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Speaker 1: and putting other people first and all of those things

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Speaker 1: I know, and like when we did our therapy episodes,

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Speaker 1: I talked about it in there where I was like,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm performing and I just need to

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Speaker 1: make everyone else happy. And so it's always putting other

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Speaker 1: people first. But then like when you set a boundary

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Speaker 1: and quote put yourself first, it feels wrong. It feels

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Speaker 1: bad just because that's how I've been conditioned. At least,

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Speaker 1: it feels like selfish to do it. Yeah. I also

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Speaker 1: found another article about it, saying it's sort of a

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Speaker 1: trauma matter of safety thing of like you feel like

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Speaker 1: you can't say no when people ask you to do things,

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Speaker 1: or in the inverse of like you have to say

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Speaker 1: no because you're afraid of what will happen if you

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Speaker 1: do say yes, which is what I've kind of been

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Speaker 1: talking about with dating, which is why I always felt

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Speaker 1: like I shouldn't date because I won't be able to

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Speaker 1: say no to anything.

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Speaker 2: But on the like friendship.

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Speaker 1: Side of like the hanging out side, I've always felt

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Speaker 1: like I have to say yes. And then they also

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Speaker 1: brought up the point women afraid rightfully, I would say,

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Speaker 1: of being called a bitch of you know, you set

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Speaker 1: up your boundaries and they're like, yeah, you bitch.

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Speaker 3: Well, we talked about this in our Religious Trauma episode

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Speaker 3: Women like the constant to command. Constant command to women

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Speaker 3: is to be selfless, and I feel like this is

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Speaker 3: the way we've really gone wrong because anything else outside

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Speaker 3: of that is selfish. There's no in between, and I

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Speaker 3: think that's growing up religiously. That's what I believe too,

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Speaker 3: Like I have to give everything of myself to be

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Speaker 3: grateful and to show that I am grateful and that

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Speaker 3: I am a godly woman, never saying no. And it

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Speaker 3: kind of was expected to that in that marriages and

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Speaker 3: sex in itself, that women can't say no to their husband, like,

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Speaker 3: it goes a long way. And I think with trauma

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Speaker 3: added to that, absolutely all about is like, uh, how

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Speaker 3: can we say no if someone needs something? And if

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Speaker 3: we say no, that means we are being selfish, unraring

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Speaker 3: and unkind right, maybe we'll go.

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Speaker 4: To hell every time?

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Speaker 2: Every time? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I feel like this was a definitely some

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Speaker 1: steps forward, but also do you know, more time introspection. Again,

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Speaker 1: my friends did not make me feel guilty. I just

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Speaker 1: want to figure about that. It was just me, right, So.

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Speaker 2: I got something else to think about, But I did

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Speaker 2: want to bring it up. I did want to revisit it.

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Speaker 1: The articles I was quoting from are was one a

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Speaker 1: huff Post article called setting Boundaries without Guilt, and then

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Speaker 1: a Medium article is guilt holding you back from set boundaries.

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Speaker 1: Guilt resiliency is the answer which I didn't really get into,

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Speaker 1: but they were talking about, like how just to become

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Speaker 1: real resilient to guilt. Yeah, so hopefully, hopefully to those listening,

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Speaker 1: you are working on those boundaries. You've got good boundaries.

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Speaker 1: You're taking time off, but you can when you want to.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, if you have any thoughts about this, please

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Speaker 1: let us know. You can email us at Stephania Mom

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Speaker 1: Steph at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at most stuff Podcasts, or on Instagram and TikTok

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Speaker 1: at Steffan' never Told You. You can also fund us

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Speaker 1: on YouTube. And yes, we do have a book coming out.

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Speaker 1: You can pre order it at stuff you Should read

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Speaker 1: Books dot com. Thanks it's always to our super producer Christina,

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Speaker 1: our executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Stephan Never Told You.

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Speaker 1: Disprection of iHeartRadio. For more podcast from my heart Radio,

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Speaker 1: you can check out the iHeart Radio app Apple podcast

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your Bavish