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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget Hi, this is Annie, and you're

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Speaker 1: listening that stuff mob never told you. Today we are

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Speaker 1: talking about bad feminism, ad feminism. If you're familiar with

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Speaker 1: Roxanne Gay spelled with one in very important toot, you

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Speaker 1: probably already know a little bit about what we mean

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Speaker 1: when we say bad feminist. Yeah, and um, if you

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Speaker 1: haven't read it, go out and find it because it's excellent.

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Speaker 1: She touches on all kinds of things. She It's a

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Speaker 1: series of essays about intersectional feminism, um, about like pop culture,

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Speaker 1: from the Hunger Games to faking orgasms. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things I love about it is that it's so relatable.

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Speaker 1: I definitely found myself relating to a lot of her essays,

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Speaker 1: particularly the ones that make you think about your own

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Speaker 1: behavior and your own thoughts as a feminist. Overall, I'm

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Speaker 1: really really into the message that it's okay to be

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Speaker 1: sort of figuring these things out as feminists and not

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Speaker 1: always get it exactly right. Yeah, And a lot of

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Speaker 1: people when they hear bad feminists or bad feminism, I

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Speaker 1: think there's this knee jerk reaction of like, oh, you

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Speaker 1: think you're too cool to be feminist. You're better than feminism.

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Speaker 1: But that's not what she was saying at all. She

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Speaker 1: was saying exactly what you're saying, Bridge, is that we

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Speaker 1: put feminists on a pedestal a lot, or feminism on

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Speaker 1: a pedestal a lot, and it's this perfection that can

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Speaker 1: never be achieved and we're all complex people, and uh,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna make mistakes and we're gonna have laws. Exactly.

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Speaker 1: That's why we had that serious problematic faves. And I

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Speaker 1: always like to remind people that the reason that we

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Speaker 1: do that serious is not to like drag Taylor Swift

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Speaker 1: or drag Judge Juty or drag Lena Dunham. It's because

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Speaker 1: we need to acknowledge the ways that we're all our

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Speaker 1: own problematic faves. Like I always say, I am I

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Speaker 1: own problematic faith, and that up all the time. I

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Speaker 1: get it wrong all the time. Sometimes it happens in public,

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Speaker 1: sometimes it happens on a public podcast even And yeah,

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Speaker 1: that part of that part of being a feminist is

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Speaker 1: learning and growing and sometimes it's tough, but that's being

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Speaker 1: a feminist, I think. Yeah, And um, here are some

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Speaker 1: steps for you. According to a national survey conducted by

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post and Kaiser, Family Foundation. Six out of

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Speaker 1: ten women and a third of men called themselves either

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Speaker 1: feminist or strong feminist, and about seven out of ten

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Speaker 1: called the feminist movement and empowering one. However, four out

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Speaker 1: of ten labeled the movement as an angry one and

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Speaker 1: also one that unfairly puts the blame on men. So

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Speaker 1: this is something I have a lot of experience with one.

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Speaker 1: I have so many friends I would say, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: not a feminist. I just believe that women and men

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Speaker 1: should be equal. Right, Well, you are a feminist, or

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Speaker 1: let's say something like, I'm not a feminist. I don't

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Speaker 1: hate men, And I say I don't hate man either.

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Speaker 1: I mean I actually do. But yeah, still be a

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Speaker 1: feminist even if you don't hate men. Um. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: so I think there is for some reason we get

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Speaker 1: ingrained with this anxiety around the F word. And I

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Speaker 1: think you even see it with celebrities where so many

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Speaker 1: of them in interviews when asked, are you a feminist?

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Speaker 1: They kind of chirk that label, and it reveals a

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Speaker 1: kind of anxiety around just where this proudly wearing this

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Speaker 1: this hat of as being a feminist. Yeah, that's exactly

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Speaker 1: what Taylor Swift said. She actually was quoted as saying,

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Speaker 1: as a teenager, I didn't understand that saying you're a

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Speaker 1: feminist is just saying that you hope men and women

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Speaker 1: will have equal rights and opportunities. What it seemed to

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Speaker 1: me is that the way it was phrase and culture

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Speaker 1: and society was that you hate men. And now I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of girls have had a feminist awakening

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Speaker 1: because they understand what that word means. For so long,

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Speaker 1: it's been made to seem like something where you pick

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Speaker 1: it against the opposite sex, but it's not about that

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Speaker 1: at all. And so I think you're right. You see

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Speaker 1: this evolution where, for some reason, the word feminism, the

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Speaker 1: idea of feminism, seems to imply that you hate men,

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Speaker 1: that you're picketing against men, that you're trying to take

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Speaker 1: away rights for men, when in fact it's not that.

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Speaker 1: And so when people realize, oh, feminism has been branded

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Speaker 1: in this way that's not true at all, they kind

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Speaker 1: of have that come to Jesus moment where they say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I am a I am a feminist. And Taylor is

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Speaker 1: with now identifies as a feminist, and she credits Lena Dunham,

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Speaker 1: of all people with helping her see the light. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's another episode we'll have to come back to and

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Speaker 1: do where you can look at Google trends graph and

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Speaker 1: you can see, like when feminism started to enter the

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Speaker 1: popular culture and language, its spiked with all of these

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Speaker 1: other like angry woman. All these stereotypes we have about feminism,

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Speaker 1: they happen at the same time, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: them were perpetuated by men who didn't want women to

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Speaker 1: go out driving by themselves. They didn't know if they'd

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Speaker 1: get up to nineties. Um. There's another poll from vox

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Speaker 1: conducted in two thousand five that found that even though

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Speaker 1: of a may Arikins want equality for women, only eighteen

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Speaker 1: percent call themselves feminists. And a similar poll in by

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Speaker 1: you gov found is that about Americans identify as feminist

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Speaker 1: one third of female respondence and less than one fifth

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Speaker 1: of male respondents, So there is a gap there. And

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Speaker 1: the most common response given for why respondents said they

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Speaker 1: weren't feminist was feminists are too extreme, followed by feminist

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Speaker 1: or anti men. So clearly this is not just us

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Speaker 1: seeing this. This is a real, a real phenomena that's happening.

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Speaker 1: I would like to note that, as always with surveys,

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Speaker 1: how many people are gonna say they aren't for equality

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Speaker 1: of the sexes. That's exactly the thing. Somehow it's easier

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Speaker 1: to frame it as, of course, I'm pro equality, because

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Speaker 1: saying oh, I don't think I'm not down with the

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Speaker 1: quality makes you sound like a dick, right, And I'm

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Speaker 1: one's going to say that, right. But you can't say, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm not feminist. That's too much, it's going too far.

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Speaker 1: If we go back to Roxanne Gay, I do think

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Speaker 1: a lot about a lot of us have these questions

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Speaker 1: about whether or not we are a good enough feminist.

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Speaker 1: You can find so many essays, just so many and

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Speaker 1: articles and books about what feminism means and what good

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Speaker 1: feminism is, and a lot of them are in opposition

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Speaker 1: to each other. One in particular, I read um it

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Speaker 1: suggested that in order for feminism to work, all women

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Speaker 1: have to enter the workforce, or at least an equal

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Speaker 1: amount of women to men, and therefore we will get

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Speaker 1: equal pay. Yeah, that's I think that would work. No,

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Speaker 1: And it's ignoring a lot of choices and women and

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Speaker 1: problems that we face. When I was researching this, I

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Speaker 1: also found a twenty seventeen article in front of a

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Speaker 1: t UM titled I noted feminist publication exactly. They were

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Speaker 1: one of our sponsors. So when I love don't I'm um.

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Speaker 1: The article is titled I Thought Cooking made Me a

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Speaker 1: bad feminist and it's actually an interesting read. The author

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Speaker 1: describes um Cooking for Women as quote inherently political, and

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Speaker 1: she talks about this sort of complicated relationship women have

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Speaker 1: with cooking where you're shamed for being a stay at

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Speaker 1: home mom, but at the same time, if you show

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Speaker 1: up to a big sale without homemade donuts you brought

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Speaker 1: store bought donuts or whatever, you're shamed for that too.

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Speaker 1: Are you saying that women can't win no matter what

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Speaker 1: we do, we can't have it all? What I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's something that I really identify with UM as a

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Speaker 1: as a loud and proud feminist. Obviously, something that I

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Speaker 1: had to sort of come to terms with is the

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Speaker 1: fact that I have this sort of almost fifties housewife

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Speaker 1: style person inside of me. I love to entertain. Nothing

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Speaker 1: fills me with like happiness more than cooking a big

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Speaker 1: meal and having someone in my house and me being like, O,

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Speaker 1: can I get you another beer? Can I make you

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Speaker 1: a drink. I made this elaborate meal, and I think

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Speaker 1: for a while that made me feel a little anxious

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Speaker 1: that you who is this person that lives to serve?

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's just cooking is fun. Cooking is

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Speaker 1: my is my stress relief, and I do feel contentment

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Speaker 1: in providing a really comfortable space for someone who I

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Speaker 1: care for is something that makes me feel good. And

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Speaker 1: so I kind of had to just say it's okay.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't have anything to do with my feminism that

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Speaker 1: I have this kind of desire to please and serve.

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Speaker 1: It's just you know, Yeah, I think in the article, Um,

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Speaker 1: she came to the conclusion that UM, cooking, like feminism,

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Speaker 1: takes many different forms, and she also kind of separated

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Speaker 1: it by the choice, like, you choose to because you

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Speaker 1: like it, it's not that you have to because that's

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Speaker 1: your quote job. Um also invite me over sometimes anytime. Anny. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I also think, I mean, the choice thing is so

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Speaker 1: real because it's the expectation. If I am expected to

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Speaker 1: come home after work and make dinner for someone because

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Speaker 1: they don't know how to do it themselves, or it's

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Speaker 1: my responsibility to feed them, I'm not down with that.

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Speaker 1: When it's when it's you know, when it does not

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Speaker 1: feel like an obligation, That's what I'm interested in doing

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Speaker 1: it the second that it becomes like a mandatory thing,

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Speaker 1: like you are the woman, you shall cook and serve

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Speaker 1: and get me a beer, no dice. And I almost

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Speaker 1: think it comes back to I've not a lot of

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Speaker 1: reading about Black feminists and the power of the domestic,

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Speaker 1: and oftentimes we think about women who cook and serve

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Speaker 1: and on a household as not having any power. But

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Speaker 1: in fact, in a lot of cases, black women were

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Speaker 1: running kitchens, running households, running families, and they did have

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Speaker 1: a kind of power, just not the kind of power

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Speaker 1: that you would maybe think, you know, I think it

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Speaker 1: really can come back to this discounting of power that

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Speaker 1: is associated with women, and the domestic is very associated

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Speaker 1: with women, and so we automatically have to sneer at it.

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Speaker 1: Right Yeah, Um, I am exactly the same way about

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Speaker 1: obligation and expectation. I'm happy to cook, but don't expect

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Speaker 1: me to cook. It's a fun it's a fun thing

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Speaker 1: to explain to someone. And I remember hearing this interview,

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Speaker 1: and this was years ago, it stuck with me. Um,

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Speaker 1: where whoever was being interviewed, said that women shouldn't bring

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Speaker 1: baked goods to the office because then they won't be

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Speaker 1: able to get to get ahead. People will see them

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Speaker 1: as somehow like, oh less than she doesn't have aspirations,

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Speaker 1: and it's stuck with me. After that, I was like

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Speaker 1: thinking about all the times I bought in baked goods

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Speaker 1: with shame. What have I done. We'll never get a promotion,

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Speaker 1: I'll never live it down, thinking my coworkers must think

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Speaker 1: so little of me. Um, So we could do a

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Speaker 1: whole episode on the relationship between women and cooking, and

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Speaker 1: we should um like going back to feminism just to

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Speaker 1: to say the straight up dictionary definition is the theory

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Speaker 1: of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes.

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Speaker 1: But then there's all this other stuff that we've attached

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Speaker 1: to it, and I think a lot of them are

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Speaker 1: have confused the definition, have moneied it, sometimes accidentally, sometimes purposefully.

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Speaker 1: And because said that, a lot of us feel like

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Speaker 1: we're failing as feminist or we're not up to par

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Speaker 1: to say that we're feminist. And it's one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons we're doing this episode is because I felt that

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Speaker 1: way for a long long time, but this show helped me,

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Speaker 1: helps me overcome that. And uh, now, yeah, I'm allowed

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Speaker 1: and feminists too, So any tell us about that. I

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Speaker 1: just from knowing you personally, you've talked about how working

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Speaker 1: on stuff I've never told you behind the scenes for

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Speaker 1: many years helped you come to terms with your own feminism.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about that. Yeah, for a long time I

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Speaker 1: thought that I was a bad feminist, that I wasn't

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Speaker 1: doing enough as a feminist. And to set the scene,

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Speaker 1: let me take you back to that dreaded time of

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Speaker 1: high school. We had this teacher who was sort of

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Speaker 1: a good old Southern boy, and he had a rule

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Speaker 1: that all the boys in class it get the books

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Speaker 1: because we checked out our school books and they'd passed

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Speaker 1: them out to the girls in class. Yeah, this was

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Speaker 1: the rule, and I always shafed it it because I

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Speaker 1: was stubborn and independent, and also I sat right next

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Speaker 1: to the bookcase, so to me, it was just a

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Speaker 1: waste of time. I could just get my own book. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And one day I did. I just reached across and

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Speaker 1: got my own book. Because, of course, the way the

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Speaker 1: deaths were structured, I got my book a last, So

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Speaker 1: I reached across and got it and the guy who

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Speaker 1: was in charge of handing out the books that day

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Speaker 1: said Anne, are you a feminist? And the whole I'm

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Speaker 1: not kidding, the whole classroom went quiet. Why is she

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Speaker 1: gonna say she feminist? And inside feminist guys, I think fist, feminist.

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Speaker 1: It's one of those scenes that I see in like

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Speaker 1: movies about high school and I think that doesn't really happen.

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Speaker 1: Happening happened. It does, and I i'd I was just panicking.

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Speaker 1: I seized up. Oh no, because I knew that saying

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Speaker 1: you're a feminist it would come with it had this

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Speaker 1: negative connotation, and then it was going to come with

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Speaker 1: all of these expectations on me all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: I was going to have to live up to this thing.

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Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure I just made some kind of

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Speaker 1: like cop out joke, Um, you were taking too long

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Speaker 1: or something like I was just doing just trying to

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Speaker 1: get the book a bit quicker. But then they did

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Speaker 1: not drop it. The class did not drop it, and

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Speaker 1: they were like, do you shave your leg? Do you

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Speaker 1: wear a makeup? Do you wear a bra? You know,

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Speaker 1: this was my freshman year of high school. I was

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Speaker 1: so mortified and to be a good feminist. In my

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Speaker 1: mind at the time, I thought the answer to those

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Speaker 1: questions or no, like no, I don't shave my legs,

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Speaker 1: No I don't wear makeup, No I don't wear a bra.

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Speaker 1: Exactly interesting. But I did all of those things, And

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Speaker 1: looking back, it seems so silly that that was enough

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Speaker 1: for me to be like, oh, no, I'm not a feminist,

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Speaker 1: I thought, I us, but I guess not. I mean

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Speaker 1: that just goes to show how much anxiety we put

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Speaker 1: on ourselves when we call herself a feminist. That oh no,

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Speaker 1: I said I was a feminist, but I shaved my

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Speaker 1: legs and were makeup and blah blah blah what most

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Speaker 1: people think, you know, and it really I think it

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Speaker 1: starts from an early age. I agree. Yeah. And I

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Speaker 1: also I too thought that it meant you hated men.

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Speaker 1: And because of that I had a teacher tell me,

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Speaker 1: and it was a female teacher, and I'm still really

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Speaker 1: mad about this. When I was in um seventh grade,

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Speaker 1: I loved a math, It's my favorite subject, and she

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Speaker 1: told me that math was a men's subject, like it's

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Speaker 1: for boys, and girls didn't really do good in it,

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Speaker 1: and that no boy was gonna want to date me

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Speaker 1: unless unless I did worse like she She didn't want

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Speaker 1: me to embarrass the other men. And a math teacher. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so she's basically telling her students to be worse at math.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't sound like a great teacher. I gotta say no.

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Speaker 1: And I'm still really mad about it because it's her name.

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Speaker 1: Put her on call it out, expose. I'm coming for you.

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Speaker 1: Just show up at my hometown. Oh man. I used

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Speaker 1: to ask for extra worksheets and then I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I guess I'll I'll not do that anymore. As I

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Speaker 1: got older, I put I put a ton of exclamation

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Speaker 1: points and emails. I say sorry all the time. I

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Speaker 1: do like baking things and bringing them in because if

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Speaker 1: I make cookies and they're around, I'll eat all the cookies.

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Speaker 1: I try not to, but temptation is too much. There's

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Speaker 1: a twenty four hour delivery cookie delivery service in Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: and I'm notorious for it, like two Am ordering cookie.

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Speaker 1: I want to know more about these two AM cookie runs.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, I have got such a funny story about

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Speaker 1: that another episode. Okay, well we'll take that one off air.

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Speaker 1: So I want to dive more into this at not

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Speaker 1: the cookies, your feminism have to a quick break, and

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Speaker 1: we're back. And Annie was just telling me how her

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Speaker 1: journey to feminism kind of came to be now that

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Speaker 1: she's a co host of a feminist podcast. From a

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Speaker 1: reluctant high school feminist to a co host of a

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Speaker 1: feminist podcast. How do we get there? Yeah? Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: so we're moving out of high school and now I'm

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Speaker 1: in college and I was a feminist. Looking back, I

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Speaker 1: can say I participated in things, but I did it

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Speaker 1: kind of in stealth mode, like in hiding, because I

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Speaker 1: didn't want people to point at me and say, well,

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Speaker 1: you're you're not a good enough feminist, or you're you're

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Speaker 1: being a fraud or something. So I kind of did

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Speaker 1: everything in secret. Um, and I would write all these

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Speaker 1: pieces and then not publish them because I was afraid

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Speaker 1: that it would reveal some secret sexist view I had

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know I had, which is ridiculous. And

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Speaker 1: I think the definition of feminism was still warped in

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Speaker 1: my head. I still didn't have it quite down, and

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Speaker 1: I had a I still thought there was a negative

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Speaker 1: connotation with that, and um, during my senior year, I

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Speaker 1: got an internship at how stuff works at this very company,

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Speaker 1: and I started to produce stuff Mom never told you,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not kidding when I say it changed my life.

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Speaker 1: I had everything, so we're all bridget I just needed

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Speaker 1: I needed that kind of hearing from other women who

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Speaker 1: are also flawed and also still learning and still pushing

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Speaker 1: themselves to be better. I just needed that example and

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Speaker 1: um having that over the years, it just gave me

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Speaker 1: so much. And then hearing from all the listeners that

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Speaker 1: gave me so much, and it gave me the courage

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Speaker 1: to finally say to myself, yes, you are a feminist

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Speaker 1: and that's good and you should say that to people loudly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That that's so powerful for me. I mean, you're a

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Speaker 1: bit younger than me, but I remember what it was

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Speaker 1: like to find a kind of a piece of media

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Speaker 1: that spoke to my feminism in a way that I

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Speaker 1: hadn't seen before and really affirmed it. And for me,

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Speaker 1: it was Bitch Magazine because I'm you know, we didn't

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Speaker 1: have podcasts back then, but that was the thing that

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Speaker 1: was this lifeline where you know, I grew up in

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Speaker 1: the South. I grew up and I'm pretty you know,

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Speaker 1: good old boy southern I mean, I call it a

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Speaker 1: hicktown sometimes, but that's probably a little bit I probably

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Speaker 1: shouldn't say that, but you know, I say it was love.

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Speaker 1: And when I found that magazine, I was like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, there's a whole world out there that I

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Speaker 1: don't even know about. I had been sort of this

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Speaker 1: lonely lefty ALTI feminist, e queer person in my town,

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Speaker 1: feeling really alone and feeling like maybe I would never

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Speaker 1: meet anybody else like me. I was sort of burdened

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Speaker 1: by being this, you know, weird kid. And when I

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Speaker 1: found Bitch Magazine, I thought, oh my god, there are

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Speaker 1: other people out there like I could I could be

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Speaker 1: at a cool restaurant in New York City with other

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Speaker 1: weird feminists from other small towns and we could all

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Speaker 1: kick it together. That was a big thing. And so

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Speaker 1: when people write in about Sminty sometimes they'll say, I

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Speaker 1: live in a small town and I don't really get

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Speaker 1: a lot of feminist media, and podcasts can be a beacon.

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Speaker 1: And I just really identify with that what it feels

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Speaker 1: like when you find a piece of creative content that

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Speaker 1: just speaks to something in you that you didn't even

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Speaker 1: really know needed to be spoken to yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: especially coming from a small town, which I grew up

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Speaker 1: in a small town as well, and I also was

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Speaker 1: sort of the local liberal. And when you're in a

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Speaker 1: small town, it's hard to see outside of the options

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Speaker 1: that are sort of painted for you. So all my

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Speaker 1: friends were in pretty serious relationships in high school, like

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Speaker 1: you know, you have the oh, they're probably gonna get

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Speaker 1: married and they're going to have kids, and they just

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Speaker 1: had their life planned out for them. And that was

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Speaker 1: never going to be in the car for me. But

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Speaker 1: I think I tried it because that's that's what people did,

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Speaker 1: and I was trying to it into that and I

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Speaker 1: just couldn't do it. It was never never going to happen.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people would talk to me as if

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Speaker 1: it was a phase and I was going to grow

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Speaker 1: out of it, or I was going to get older

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Speaker 1: and wiser. You know. It was a very strange, very

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Speaker 1: strange thing. And then to start working on this show

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Speaker 1: and just have your worldview expanded and given all these

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Speaker 1: avenues of of thinking and it was very very rewarding

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Speaker 1: and enlightening, and it helped me personally grow so much.

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Speaker 1: And I think about high school any sometimes and I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it gets better. It does get better. And I one

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Speaker 1: of the things I love about doing the show is

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Speaker 1: that if we can tell one young person out there

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Speaker 1: that even if you're the person doesn't really fit in

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Speaker 1: your community, you can find a new community. Even if

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Speaker 1: your family thinks you're the weirdo, you can buy a

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Speaker 1: new family right that. It's okay, we're all we all

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Speaker 1: go through this, And you know, for the for the

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Speaker 1: little version of junior high me who's out there in

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Speaker 1: Bumble Virginia listening to this podcast in her bedroom with

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Speaker 1: the door closed, thinking I want to have a you know,

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Speaker 1: a different kind of life than the life I see

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Speaker 1: all around me. You can't have that life. I hope

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Speaker 1: that that is happening. Two. Yeah, And one of the

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Speaker 1: things I think about I think about this all the time.

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Speaker 1: When I was taking the g r E, which is

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Speaker 1: the Graduate Records Examination a couple of years ago, UM,

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Speaker 1: the essay prompt was something along the lines of is

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Speaker 1: it possible for us to have heroes in a world

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Speaker 1: with so much constant media coverage? And I think about

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Speaker 1: that all the time. But it gets back to that

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Speaker 1: same idea of bad feminist and bad feminism and there

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Speaker 1: aren't perfect people, and we are expecting people to be perfect,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I think that's just thing to watch out

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Speaker 1: for because that doesn't exist. None of us are perfect,

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Speaker 1: even if we put on this label of I'm a feminist,

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Speaker 1: I'm super woke, I'm super progressive, I'm little miss lefty.

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Speaker 1: We all got we all make mistakes, and it's so

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Speaker 1: much easier to grapple with that and others, even though

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Speaker 1: it's hard, but it's even it's almost sometimes feels unpossible

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Speaker 1: to accept that about ourselves. And that's why I love

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Speaker 1: Roxhane Gay's books so much, because it's all about sort

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Speaker 1: of embracing our own frailties and our own blind spots,

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Speaker 1: on our own issues and our own our own hang

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Speaker 1: ups in a way that is when you accept that,

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Speaker 1: it's almost liberating, Like, yeah, I am a bad feminist.

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Speaker 1: If someone says, hey, you say that you're a feminist,

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Speaker 1: but you did this thing, well, it's just like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm a bad feminist. I'm so a feminist. It's

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Speaker 1: bad at it. I love the example she gives her

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Speaker 1: she loves rap music, but the lyrics like appall her. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's when I definitely identify with it's just good to

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Speaker 1: run to. Okay, so we have a little bit more

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Speaker 1: to talk about with you, but first one more quick

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Speaker 1: break for word from more sponsor and we're back, Thank

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Speaker 1: you sponsor. Okay, So doing this episode, I tried to

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Speaker 1: come up with what the image is for a perfect

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Speaker 1: feminist and I honestly could not do it. And I

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Speaker 1: think it is in part because that person doesn't exist.

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Speaker 1: If you're waiting for yourself to become the perfect feminist,

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Speaker 1: well that everyone agrees with, you're gonna be waiting forever,

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna waste a lot of time that you

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Speaker 1: could spend doing good work and helping and supporting people.

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00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 1: We're all complex and flawed humans and we aren't perfect,

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00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: and we just need to accept it. It's both comforting

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00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 1: and not comforting, but mostly comforting. I think I think

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00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: it's comforting. Once you just opt out of having to

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00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: be perfect, you have so much more fun, You're so

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00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: much more relaxed, You can sort of accept things about yourself.

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00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: Think it helps you grow and learn, because if you're perfect,

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00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 1: you don't need to grow, you already have answers. But

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00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: if you say I'm not perfect, you get to sort

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00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 1: of go on more journeys that get you someplace good

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00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 1: instead of just being smug in your perfection. Yeah, this

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00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: actually reminds me of this. Who listen to the Icebreaker episode.

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00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: I don't know if it made it in, but I

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00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: had a big crush on Billy Joe Armstrong from Green

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00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 1: Day and he has this quote. He says he doesn't

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00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 1: believe practice makes perfect because nobody's perfect. Ye, Billy Joel,

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00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: is it Joe or Joel Joe? Billy Joe Armstrong friend

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00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: of the show, Dominis, friend of the show, I hope,

447
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: So please write it if you're listening and he loves you.

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00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: High School Annie would have died probably she got a

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00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: note from Billy Joe Armstrong. Yeah, there's always room for improvement, um,

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00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: and feminism is no exception. And I think the first

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00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: up for me was accepting that label. And another good

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00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: step is always listening. Listening is I think people discount

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00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: that's all the time, but it's so important and no

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00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 1: one to speak up have those good, uncomfortable conversations. Lord knows,

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00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: I had one over this Christmas breakof But I get it. Um.

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00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: Understanding that feminism, while at its core, is simple is

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00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: complex and nuanced, and there are a lot of different

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00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 1: voices and intersections. And keep educating yourself. I feel like

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00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: i'm talking to I'm pretty i'm preaching to the choir

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00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: because all of you are probably way ahead of me

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00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: on this, but it's worth repeating. And be honest with yourself,

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00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: be honest with where you could improve, and go out

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00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: and try to improve yourself in those areas. I love it.

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Speaker 1: And I think our unofficial motto here at the show

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00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: is learn and grow together, right, and so that's what

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00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: we're trying to do here. I'm glad that you're taking

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00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: the stourney with me because lord know's a half so

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00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: many avenues or I could learn and grow and I

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00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: want to I want to do that together because you know,

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00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: nobody's a perfect feminist. We're all figuring it out. We're

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00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: all just trying our best, and I think that's okay.

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00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: And sometimes that looks messy and awkward, uncomfortable. Sometimes it's funny,

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00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: sometimes it's mundane, sometimes it's boring, but we're doing the work. Yeah, Yeah,

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00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 1: I'm happy to be here on this journey with you. Well,

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00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: sminty listeners, we want to know how is your feminism

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00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 1: journey played out? Are you learning and growing alongside with us?

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00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram and Stuff I've Never

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00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 1: Told You on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, and as always,

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00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: keep sending those emails at mom stuff at how stuff

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00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: works dot com