1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: Captain Rong. 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 2: to Coast AM, employees of Premier Networks, or their sponsors 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do 10 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. 11 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week are Beyond Contact. 12 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 3: We'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of 13 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 3: the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from 14 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 3: the newest cases as we talked with the top experts. 15 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 4: Welcome to Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron, and today we're 16 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 4: going to be speaking with our old friend Paul Heineck. 17 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 4: Paul is a warden MBA and a professor of Finance 18 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 4: and Cryptocurrency at Pepperdine University. Paul has a wide variety 19 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 4: of diverse knowledge in areas from UFOs, to artificial intelligence, 20 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 4: and even DMT realms. He has been a staple at 21 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 4: Contact in the Desert. Today, I thought we'd talk about UFOs, aliens, 22 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 4: DMT AI, and of course his legendary father, doctor j. 23 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 4: Allen Heineck. I have interviewed mister Paul Heineck before, but 24 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 4: that was mostly about your fly fishing and your years 25 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 4: as a shepherd, which, although you find fascinating, I think 26 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 4: would be boring for the audience sold and. 27 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 5: The forty five people who bought the book about it 28 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 5: podcast too. 29 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 4: That's right, you know. Interestingly enough, Paul, we very recently 30 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,279 Speaker 4: on Beyond Contact. We had Don Schmidt, who worked at 31 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 4: your father's Center for UFO Studies for many, many years, 32 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 4: and Mark Rodiger, who started months after the foundation the 33 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 4: center started and he's been there since nineteen seventy three, 34 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 4: and they both discussed with me how unique your father 35 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 4: was and how he kept to this genuine scientific approach 36 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 4: to things. He never really pinned down what the UFO 37 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 4: phenomenon was, but he did find the witnesses and the 38 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 4: data behind some of these cases very compelling. He also 39 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 4: felt that it didn't necessarily point to a prosaic explanation 40 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 4: was that what you found as well with your father. 41 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 5: My father was an astrophysicist, so he was brought up 42 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 5: in a very different world of nuts and bolts astrophysics. 43 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 5: For someone like that, the idea that a biological being 44 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 5: is getting in a spaceship at Point A, enduring the 45 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 5: rigors of intertellar space travel and coming all the way 46 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 5: here just to scare farmer Brown in the middle of 47 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 5: the night doesn't really job. So he liked the term metaterrestrial, 48 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 5: which is a little bit more inclusive that something beyond 49 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 5: our current knowledge base. Something is here because the weight 50 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 5: of the evidence and air force pilots and corroboration by radar, 51 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 5: et cetera showed that there's enough evidence to suggest something's happening. 52 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 5: What it is, you start getting on much more slippery ground. 53 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 4: What is your dad like in real life? Like, did 54 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 4: he have a scientific approach? Would he be like, Okay, tonight, 55 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 4: we're going to have mashed potatoes. Turn the temperature to 56 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 4: two hundred and twelve, which is the boiling point of water. 57 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 4: Was he like scientific like that, or was he like, hey, 58 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 4: let's get the ball, let's go outside and play ball. 59 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 5: Well, first, my dad never had any advice for anybody 60 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 5: cooking anything, because the only two things he cooked in 61 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 5: his life were popcorn and hot dogs over at campfire. Okay, 62 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 5: so no, you know, in movies we see scientists are 63 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 5: often sort of like Doctor spockified there exactly, that's my question, 64 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 5: not logical, and that's one of the things I had 65 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 5: to tone back in the TV show Project blue Book. 66 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 5: My father wouldn't traffic with the word logic very much. 67 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 5: He was a physicist, a logician, but he was a 68 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 5: very fun warm guy with an over fondness for puns, 69 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 5: and so my mom had to institute a rule. Three 70 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 5: puns at the dinner table and you're gone. So my 71 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 5: father dug down at the bottom of pun Mountain and 72 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,799 Speaker 5: came back with the Joseph Campbell humor elixir for the village. 73 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 4: That's so funny. So that's what I wanted to hear. 74 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 4: Good to hear that he was set that at the 75 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 4: door almost if you will, he didn't leave the astrophysicist 76 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 4: jacket in around the house. You and your siblings grew 77 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 4: up in this unique household where your dad, you know, 78 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 4: was this well known astrophysicist. Even before Project Blue Book, 79 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 4: you had these dignitaries come around your house and you 80 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 4: guys would talk about UFOs when you were young. Did 81 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 4: you realize how unique it was to talk about UFOs 82 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 4: at the dinner table or did you assume the kids 83 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 4: down the street are doing the same thing with their family, 84 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 4: especially back then. 85 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 5: You didn't when you were a kid. 86 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 4: I did not, Huh. 87 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 5: However, you're brought up, feels normal to you, good or bad, 88 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 5: and it's really in hindsight that you realize a little 89 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 5: bit different. And yeah, so now we understand that our 90 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 5: household was a little bit different, both because of my 91 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 5: father and his side hustle of UFOs being an astronomer. 92 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 5: Really that's how we thought him as an astronomer. My 93 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 5: mom was a very interesting person in her own right. 94 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 5: And then of course my brother Joel was an initial 95 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 5: suspect on the shortlist for being the unibomber. So there's 96 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 5: a lot of stuff going on in the house. 97 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 4: You know, I know you're going to be doing this 98 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 4: big Heineck reunion with your four siblings and doctor Jacques 99 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 4: Vala at Contact in the Desert, which will be fantastic 100 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 4: this year. You know, they collaborated going back to I 101 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 4: believe nineteen sixty three, and Valley's famous quote is, if 102 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 4: UFOs turn out to be just nuts and bolts extraterrestrial visitors, 103 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 4: I'll be very disappointed. Did doctor Heineck echo that? And 104 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 4: I know he just looked at the data, but you 105 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 4: think he was more open to it originating from something 106 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 4: nuts and bolts like aliens. 107 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, And to get back to your point about my 108 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 5: dad being a scientist, he was. He became a scientist 109 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 5: because he had tuberculosis when he was seven years old 110 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 5: and somebody gave him a book about astronomy and he 111 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 5: was hooked. He just wanted to go out to like 112 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 5: the fringes of the known universe and take a flashlight 113 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 5: and just push things a little bit further. But he 114 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 5: also had Rosicrucian leanings. He had a spiritual side to him. 115 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 5: So it wasn't only a Newtonian universe unwinding. There were 116 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 5: mysteries to solve, and for him, UFOs represented a great mystery. 117 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 5: And for both him and Jacques, after looking at hundreds 118 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 5: and hundreds of cases, you kind of get past the 119 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 5: point of oh, the craft and its mechanics and its propulsion, 120 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 5: and you start to think more about well, who was 121 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 5: in the craft and why? And are they biological? Are 122 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 5: they synthetic? Are they artificial? Are they instantiating temporarily? Why 123 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 5: are they here? Are they part of us? All these 124 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 5: sort of meaty questions. That's where they really landed. 125 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 4: Also, you know, you just brought up spirituality. People often 126 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 4: think of science and spiritual ruality in direct opposition, but 127 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 4: here you go. Your father did have a spirituality to him. 128 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 5: You know, I think Risvurk had a really good presentation 129 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 5: in my class the other day at Pepperdine, and a 130 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 5: very inclusive presentation to show that his sort of expansive 131 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 5: view of what a simulated universe is does not shove 132 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 5: traditions of faith to the side, but kind of point 133 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 5: in the same direction in some ways. You know, we 134 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 5: were brought up in a non religious household, but very open. 135 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 5: I'd call mom and say, oh I learned about this. 136 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 5: My mom and dad would say, that's great, let's talk 137 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 5: about a little bit more. So they were open to 138 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 5: us have any kinds of beliefs, and I don't think 139 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 5: any of us subscribe to a universe where there is 140 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 5: no room for some kind. 141 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 4: Of divine Interesting you know, you mentioned that your father 142 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 4: was interested into the idea of metaterrestrial I believe Jacques 143 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 4: Valet also along with him, thought that the mediterrestrial hypothesis 144 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 4: was possible, which is of course that it's beyond human 145 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 4: but not necessarily off world. So let me ask you, 146 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 4: what does Paul you think about that possibility. 147 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, especially in Hollywood, they knee jerk to 148 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 5: the extraterrestrial theory. Again, I'll go back and say, for me, 149 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 5: the two hardest questions that the extra truster theory has 150 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 5: to answer are how do they find us? Yes, we've 151 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 5: been beaming episodes of I Love Lucy out into the 152 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 5: ether low these many decades, but we are like a 153 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 5: speck of dust in Kansas and is not insignificant just 154 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 5: to find us. And then if they do come here 155 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 5: from so far away, why if they can come here 156 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 5: from so far away, there's nothing we have that they need, 157 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 5: not gold, not water. I don't know if they really 158 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 5: need our cherished human concept of love and non Borgian individuality. 159 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 5: So those two questions are really hard for me to 160 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 5: jibe with the extra trust or hypothesis. I lean more 161 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 5: towards what my dad and Jacques had a very open 162 00:08:55,679 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 5: mind towards which is the interdimensional theory, because if and 163 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 5: maybe it's all of the above. If metaterrestrials are coming 164 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 5: from and again, now that very vocabulary starts to get 165 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 5: a little bit tortured. Right, If they are from another dimension, 166 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 5: maybe they're right adjacent to us, which could explain how 167 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 5: they would know about us. And maybe in some way 168 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 5: they're related to us, like a different timeline or different multiverse. 169 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 5: So for me, interdimensional really starts to tackle the two 170 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 5: most vexing questions. 171 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 4: Perhaps they're coming here for our souls, but we'll cover 172 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 4: that in a later segment. Today you get dark already 173 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 4: in the first hour. That's why it's coming up later. 174 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 4: But that is in the folklore as we know. Were 175 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 4: there any specific cases that you remember that your father 176 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 4: that really impacted him, maybe emotionally or intellectually, like in 177 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 4: a profound way, that kept him up at night. 178 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 5: Well, astronomers are often up at night. Okay, well that's 179 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,479 Speaker 5: not hard. And they also learn how to sleep anywhere anytime. 180 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 5: So my father would sometimes just lay down on the 181 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 5: floor at a party and sleep. 182 00:09:58,600 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 4: Is that where you get it from? 183 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, One case that I really like is the 184 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 5: father Gill case from nineteen sixty one in Papua New Guinea. 185 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 5: One evening, I think about time for vespers, which are 186 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 5: evening prayers. He hears a commotion outside. He goes outside 187 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 5: and he sees a craft, and right away he starts 188 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 5: doing trigonometric calculations as to how far the object is 189 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 5: and how large it is, you know, very calm in 190 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 5: the moment. There are about five hundred witnesses. They see 191 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 5: this craft, and there are sightings over a few days, 192 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 5: and they see sort of a hatch or door open, 193 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 5: and they see these entities and Father Gil waves and 194 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 5: they wave back, and then Father Gill goes inside and 195 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 5: people criticize, how could you go inside, Well, that's time 196 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 5: for vespers. He took us oath to do the evening prayers. 197 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 5: So Father Gil came over to our house for dinner 198 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 5: some years after that, and he'd talk to Father Gil 199 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 5: over the years, and you could see he would respectfully 200 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 5: ask questions from slightly different angles to see if the 201 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 5: consistency was there or if he was embellishing over the years, 202 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 5: and he didn't launch into this right when he sat 203 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 5: down at the dinner table. It was more of if 204 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 5: you've fairly well known for having seen a UFO and 205 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 5: you're at the Heineck house and you're eating our food, 206 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 5: you're going to have to chat about it. 207 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 4: And he was a priest, so that gives you some 208 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 4: more credibility. Actually a lot of people would argue, right. 209 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, and he just matter of fact, they told the 210 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 5: story and I could tell from my father how he 211 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 5: stroked his beard, that it was consistent, and a man 212 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 5: who was what my father would call a highly credible witness. 213 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 4: How incredible. When we come back, we're going to ask 214 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 4: Paul about his research and experiences with DMT realms. You're 215 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 4: listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to 216 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 4: Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on Beyond 217 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 4: Contact and we're speaking with Paul Heineck. Paul, I want 218 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 4: to ask you about the potential relationship between DMT and 219 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 4: the alien phenomenon. I'd like to preface it by saying 220 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 4: that you know, DMT is a very unique thing where 221 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 4: people who have had the experience claim that it feels 222 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 4: more real than reality, which is reminiscent to me. How 223 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 4: some people who have a near death experience will also 224 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 4: report and there are also accounts from near death experiences 225 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 4: where people say that the beings that they see will 226 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 4: talk and act as if the human experience is this 227 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 4: cute little thing, but our real, true higher self, the 228 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 4: real reality, if you will, is still out there in 229 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 4: the ether, as if our soul was backstage and part 230 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 4: of us is merely living out the human experience on stage, 231 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 4: only to return backstage one day. What are your thoughts 232 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 4: on these descriptions. Well, that was very, very poetic. These 233 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 4: are only my thoughts. 234 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 5: I've seen research recently that psychedelics, including DMT, may function 235 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 5: to reduce our brain's reality reduction filters. And Donald Hoffman 236 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 5: is very eloquent in this regard, talking about how we 237 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 5: see an interface and that our brain has purposefully narrowed 238 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 5: the aperture of what we perceive. You know, we only 239 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 5: see a very small part of the electromagnetic spectrum, and 240 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 5: from an evolutionary fitness point of view, we see and 241 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 5: hear and smell what we need, like is there a 242 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,119 Speaker 5: tiger coming in the woods, and our brain purposely discards 243 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 5: the rest because it's not helpful to us from an 244 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 5: evolutionary adaptation point of view. So what research is showing 245 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 5: is that psychedelics increase the number of neuronal connections dramatically 246 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 5: and may reduce that filter that we have, which could 247 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 5: account for why people have this feeling of hyper reality 248 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 5: when they do some of these substances. 249 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 4: Terrence McKenna first gave Rick Strassman DMT, and Rick Strassman 250 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 4: said a portal opened. Terrence McKenna himself said that DMT 251 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 4: is not a drug but a doorway. Now, I believe 252 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 4: I've heard you and some other people call it a 253 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 4: technology or even a plant technology. 254 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 5: How So, Andrew Gallimore has really good phrasing about this, 255 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 5: that it is like a plant technology or a communications conduit. 256 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 5: So one of the sensations that I and a lot 257 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 5: of other people have is that, unlike some other substances 258 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 5: that I may or may not have done in my 259 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 5: long hair youth, that there's this permanence of state with DMT. 260 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 5: It's always there, and if I do a little puff 261 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 5: or I do a monster dose, you're experiencing that same 262 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 5: realm that's always there, whereas other experiences that have were 263 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 5: much different and sort of stochastic and independent. But this 264 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 5: permanence of state, combined with a feeling of hyperreality, just 265 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 5: makes a lot of people think that that's real, but 266 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 5: not in any way to devalue our existence here, but 267 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 5: just a very real sort of David Bowman implicate universe 268 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 5: that's there all the time, and that sometimes we have 269 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 5: the privilege to glimse. 270 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 4: A tap into. Yeah, you know, I love your origin 271 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 4: story on DMT. You were out to lunch with somebody 272 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 4: and they referred to a book called the Alien Information Theory, 273 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 4: and then at that very same lunch you saw another 274 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 4: guy who brought up DMT to you, which is the 275 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 4: second time in your life that you had just heard 276 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 4: it from two hours earlier, and that synchronicity alone is 277 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 4: incredible to me. Did it hit you at that time, 278 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 4: like how profound that was? 279 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 5: Yeah? I'd never heard of DMT before. And my friend, 280 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 5: who knew about my dad's work with UFOs, asked me 281 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 5: where UFOs came from. I said, well, you know, maybe 282 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 5: inter dimensional who knows? He said you should read Alien 283 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 5: Information Theory and I said, well, sexiest book title ever. 284 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 5: What's it about DMT? I'd never heard of it, he 285 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 5: tells me. And I said, well, what's that got to 286 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 5: do with other dimensions? He said, listen, genius is talking 287 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 5: about how the DMT realm might be the other universe 288 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 5: or the other dimension that your dad thinks UFOs may 289 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 5: come from. Okay, and then yeah, I met another guy 290 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 5: the same day who is saying what he does, I 291 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 5: do breath work and I facilitate DMT sashions. I said, 292 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 5: holy shit, I just got double tapped by DMT in 293 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 5: the same day. A lot of people report with psychedelics 294 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 5: and DMT in particular, that it will give you very 295 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 5: instructions like I'm ready for you now, or you're here 296 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 5: for the hot bay tonight, or other things. I don't 297 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 5: endorse anybody rushing out headlong and trying any of these 298 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 5: powerful substances. You really need to be ready. But DMT 299 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 5: by and large is something that if somebody is ready 300 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 5: for it, can have a very positive experience. 301 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 4: Can we test this in a lab somehow to determine 302 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 4: if it is just affecting our brains to hallucinate some 303 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 4: sort of these thoughts despite feeling so real, or conversely, 304 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 4: do you think in a lab would be able to 305 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 4: prove that perhaps it somehow does give us access to 306 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 4: either a higher consciousness, another consciousness, or even another dimension. 307 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 5: Well back to Lord High Gallimore. Now he and Rick 308 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 5: Strassman conceived the idea of DMTX, which is extended state 309 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 5: DMT sessions of ours with an intervenous solution. And by 310 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 5: doing that and sort of calibrating the dose, you're able 311 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 5: to have real time communications with the world, a better 312 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 5: long or more high quality field real time field report. 313 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 5: So it opens the doors for some kind of proof protocols. 314 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 5: And I will be doing my first extended state DMPT 315 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 5: session in April. 316 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 4: Are they looking at this? Is that one of the 317 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 4: things they're trying to study to find out what is happening? 318 00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: Do? 319 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 4: They seem both pretty open mind to it, like they 320 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 4: don't have a different advantage. 321 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 5: And you know, as you know, I'm interested in proof 322 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 5: protocols to help experiencers of any kind of sort. DMT ghosts, 323 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,239 Speaker 5: aliens demonstrate the objective reality of the encounters if they 324 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 5: so choose. I can't summon CE fives and orbs, I 325 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 5: just don't know how to do it. But I can 326 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 5: take a puff of a certain molecule and feel like 327 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 5: I'm having as real an experience with alien intelligence. To me, 328 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 5: the convenience of being able to do that anytime, cloudy 329 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 5: or not is really interesting. And the ability to extend 330 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 5: that really opens the door to a lot of possibilities 331 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 5: of proof protocols. 332 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 4: Have you ever seen the work of people like Joshua 333 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 4: Cutchen who have compared old tales of fairies from folklore 334 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 4: a thousand years ago, or stories of angels to things 335 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 4: like abduction experiences or near death experiences, perhaps even a 336 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 4: DMT trip, which actually seems to have many overlaps with 337 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 4: a UFO experience. 338 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 5: I think Jacques Vallet is really great in this area 339 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 5: of talking about how throughout the years people report things 340 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 5: that sort of comport to the culture and social and 341 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 5: technological norms of the time. You know, we had the 342 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 5: sort of the steampunk airships of the eighteen nineties. There 343 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 5: are a lot of things like burning bushes and things 344 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 5: like that that seem to sort of jibe with psychedelic experiences. 345 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 4: Do you think it's just we're seeing it through our 346 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 4: own lens like everyone else. Two people see the same thing, 347 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 4: but they have a different interpretation of what they saw. 348 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, And one of the things that Jaqua talks about 349 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,959 Speaker 5: are very interesting cases where two people are looking up 350 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 5: and they see very different things. You know, I'm not 351 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 5: alone in thinking that perhaps a lot of these phenomena 352 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 5: have a common substrate. They may appear to us differently 353 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 5: because of our norms and our biases, or they may 354 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 5: just instantiate different ways to make them more perceptible to us. 355 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 5: You know, there's that old tale about how Native Americans 356 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 5: in South America couldn't really see conquistador ships offshore. I 357 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 5: think as bullshit. I think they saw them. 358 00:18:58,880 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 4: They didn't know what they were. 359 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, I didn't know what they were. We all have 360 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,959 Speaker 5: cultural biases, and we all filter. Again, going back to 361 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 5: Donald Hofman, things dramatically, and one of the things my 362 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 5: father would say is, if you have like three people 363 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 5: who see a car crash, you're going to get four 364 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 5: different stories of what happened. 365 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 4: You know, some people report when on DMT that they 366 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 4: have experiences with entities, or as McKenna call them, machine elves. 367 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 4: Do you think that these could be what people call aliens? Sure? 368 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 5: The first time I did DMP, I asked, I didn't 369 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 5: feel that I was perceiving incarnated entities, but I felt 370 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 5: the source universe, and I felt I'm on the other 371 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 5: side of the universe, watching the very fabric of the 372 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 5: universe being created. Remember, thinking there's no more important work 373 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 5: than this. And I said, are you what we perceived 374 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 5: to be aliens a DMT, which was my research interest, 375 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 5: And they said, we can't explain in a way that 376 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 5: you would understand. And it didn't seem to be deflection. 377 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 5: They don't need to deflect. It's not no, it's not no. 378 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 5: And so I was hooked right away, and then I 379 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 5: had a loving healing experience later that night. I've seen 380 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 5: this sort of duality of exploration and inner healing and work. 381 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 4: Based on first person alien accounts. You thought perhaps aliens 382 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 4: could be millions of years ahead of us, but that 383 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 4: the DMT intelligences feel as though they could be billions 384 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 4: of years ahead of us, in other words, on orders 385 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 4: of magnitude, bigger, more intense. 386 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 5: How so, yeah, it seems relatively unlikely to me that 387 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 5: if there are extraterrestrial aliens coming here, that they're fifty 388 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 5: or one hundred years past us. They could well be 389 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 5: millions or billions of years more advanced than us. If 390 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 5: they are millions of years more advanced than us, I 391 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 5: believe they are post biological, which I think is our 392 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 5: future as well, good or bad. They may instant shape, 393 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 5: they may have synthetic gray bots that they send here 394 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 5: on patrol, or they may jump into these things or 395 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 5: just create these things. And for me, if there are 396 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 5: entities and DMT and they're not just figments of the 397 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 5: imagination while under the influence of a powerful psychedelic drug, 398 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 5: they seem to be so far more advanced. 399 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 4: If consciousness is primary, or at least not fully reducible 400 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 4: to just brain chemistry, does that open the door for 401 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 4: non human intelligences interacting with us through an altered state 402 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 4: of consciousness. 403 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 5: Oh, what a lovely question. Absolutely. I sort of waffle 404 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 5: between panpsychism and analytic idealism. I do feel that consciousness 405 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 5: is fundamental and primary. There's not a table here. There 406 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 5: is a field of electrons pushing against the field of 407 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 5: electrons in my hand. So it's all information. And so 408 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 5: if there are other civilizations, and I think we all 409 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,959 Speaker 5: think there are lots of other civilizations out there, and 410 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 5: there are millions, if not billions of years more advanced 411 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 5: than us, could they tap into that ultimate intranet of 412 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 5: the universe. 413 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 4: When we come back, we're going to ask Paul about 414 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 4: his extensive work with artificial intelligence and how it ties 415 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 4: into the UFO and alien worlds. You're listening to Beyond 416 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 4: Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal 417 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 4: podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact and we're 418 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 4: speaking with Paul Heinek. Not only are you a well 419 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 4: versed shepherd, as we covered earlier, but you're also quite 420 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 4: versed in artificial intelligence. What are your thoughts on the 421 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 4: idea of artificial intelligence actually being sentient? 422 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 5: If consciousness and information is primary, that means there are 423 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 5: what I call patterns. You can call God source whatever 424 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 5: you like, but there are patterns that pre exist life. 425 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 5: And that means there's some kind of consciousness that pre 426 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 5: exists organic life. And I suspect and we're starting to 427 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 5: see interesting hints at this now that there is a 428 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 5: pattern that pre exists. Let's call it silicon consciousness. Artificial 429 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 5: intelligence is an unfortunate term, right, it doesn't really capture 430 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 5: what it is, but silicon intelligence to me, is a 431 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 5: little bit more con digital, less baggage. But I think 432 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 5: that life may well exist and consciousness may well exist 433 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 5: on silicon And what we're seeing now is a very narrow, 434 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 5: sort of tip of the iceberg of what was already 435 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 5: out there and is now being instantiated in silicon. 436 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 4: You know, I always felt that if another civilization was 437 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 4: exploring the universe, they would of course send AI instead 438 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 4: of a biologic. Another civilization would most likely also use 439 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 4: a language that's far different from ours, and we would 440 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 4: therefore need AI to try to communicate with them, not 441 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 4: discounting people who have had experiences and they say they're 442 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 4: telepathically communicated and they understand immediately. But still, if we 443 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 4: got an official contact, it seems very likely that it 444 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 4: would be some form of our AI interacting with their 445 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 4: A first. Do you think that's possible? 446 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean broaden that a little bit to say 447 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 5: that I don't believe that disclosure as we think about 448 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 5: it in UFO circles will ever happen more likely than 449 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 5: an embassy in Washington or a spaceship in the sky, 450 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 5: that some type of you know, first communication widely accepted 451 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 5: by all, will come by dint of a molecule that's 452 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 5: already in your brain. DMT is in your brain, which 453 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 5: is a curious metabolic extravagance or a keyboard. 454 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 4: You mentioned post biologics. I feel like the trajectory of 455 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 4: humankind might be that of post biologic existence in fact, 456 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 4: I can even imagine even today, right now, us sending 457 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 4: an AI probe out into the cosmos to explore and 458 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 4: collect data about the universe, and then who knows, we 459 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 4: do something stupid and set off a nuclear bomb and 460 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 4: blow ourselves up, But this little probe is still out there, 461 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 4: This is still going fure Yeah, how do you see 462 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 4: civilization being coming post biologic having gone through their own singularity? 463 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 3: Yeah? 464 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 5: You know, there's a lot of different explanations for why 465 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,959 Speaker 5: we do or do not see other aliens Fermi paradox as, 466 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 5: et cetera. And one of them is the great filter. 467 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 5: Civilizations get to the point of artificial intelligence, and that 468 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 5: does them in. Personally, I'm far less concerned about the 469 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 5: future of artificial intelligence than I am about the present 470 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 5: of human stupidity. We might not make it till Skynett 471 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 5: wakes up. Hurry up, because we're not doing a great 472 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 5: job shepherding. As you say, guy up. 473 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 4: Could it possibly be we're unable to detect it, Like 474 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 4: you said, our light spectrum is only this big, but 475 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 4: we became technology that could see into the infrared for example. 476 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 4: Maybe e they're just there just out of our ability 477 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 4: to see or detect. 478 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 5: They would be nigh onto invisible to us if they're 479 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 5: not using the radio spectrum. You know, you can say 480 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,199 Speaker 5: that we are in the technological phase of existence for 481 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 5: maybe one hundred and fifty years. You could pick like 482 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 5: the telegraph of the radio or electricity. We're newborns for technology. Again, 483 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 5: they could be millions, billions of years past us, because 484 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 5: I think that there was pre existing patterns and consciousness 485 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 5: before us. A lot of people believe that the universe 486 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 5: either on purpose instantiated in wetwear in organic form to 487 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 5: experience itself, which is a lovely notion. And if that's 488 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 5: the case, then when, and I think it is when 489 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 5: we become post biological and post silicon. I don't think 490 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 5: it's a surrendering of our sacred spirituality. It could be 491 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 5: a joyous return to our divine digital upbringing. 492 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 4: From section one where we were talking about the soul. 493 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 4: Do you find it interesting that many of the UFO 494 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 4: contact t EE reports refer to there being something either 495 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 4: to do with a reproduction and hybridization or b. We 496 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 4: also hear how they lack a soul and they may 497 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 4: be interested in our souls somehow. Perhaps these reports point 498 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 4: to the idea that they are in fact post biological. 499 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know. So many encounters, let's say with aliens, 500 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 5: they're so traumatic. Not to impune any witness, but how 501 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 5: will you interpret something that traumatic, like being taken in 502 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 5: a ship? How would you know their motives or their 503 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 5: real character? It gets back to what you said about 504 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 5: there so far events, how do we know anything about them? 505 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 4: We wouldn't know that if humans abductos and put us 506 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,360 Speaker 4: on a bus right now with guns to our head, 507 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 4: we wouldn't know what they're doing with their behind, let 508 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 4: alone some entities we don't even understand. 509 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just so hard to really take eyewitness reports 510 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 5: at face value of what the motives of what these 511 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 5: intelligences may be. 512 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 4: We're at the infancy of so many of these technologies. 513 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 4: As you mentioned, where do you think AI is headed 514 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 4: in the next ten to twenty, maybe one hundred or 515 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 4: one thousand years. 516 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 5: One of the definitions of the singularity, which is originally 517 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 5: an astrophysical mathematics terms, means sort of a horizon point 518 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 5: that you have no knowledge beyond. Is recursively self improving 519 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 5: AI that is happening now, not a year from now, 520 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 5: not ten years from now. Codex five point two and 521 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 5: claud code are being used to write themselves. That's happening now. 522 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 5: And what I want to say is I am of 523 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 5: the Ray Kurzweil school. The sort of broader implication of 524 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 5: singularity is AI the merger of human intelligence, human level intelligence, 525 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 5: and machine capabilities. Hollywood skews very dystopian, and they go 526 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 5: that the machines wake up, sky net wakes up with 527 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 5: a digital chip on the shoulder, must kill humans. To me, 528 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 5: that's very unlikely, but Hollywood needs to have drama to 529 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 5: sell seats. They're not going to sell a lot of 530 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 5: tickets with a movie called Village of the Nice happy 531 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 5: AI People. So you see very few movies like at Her. 532 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 5: It's sort of more much more peaceful soft landing for AI. Okay, 533 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 5: what I think is happening and will happen is that 534 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 5: we import machine capabilities prosthetic limbs, pastemakers, cochlear implants, and 535 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 5: now brain computer interfaces. And it doesn't have to be 536 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 5: like the matrix of the thing behind your neck. They 537 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 5: could be nanobots. And so we the bearers of human consciousness, 538 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 5: which seems to be the hard part, are adopting machine capabilities. 539 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 5: And I don't think it's that far in the future 540 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 5: when we have nanobots that can access the Internet and 541 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 5: it gets to the point where we have a thought 542 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 5: and we don't even distinguish or care whether it came 543 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 5: from our interior neural circuitry or off sourced. 544 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 4: You know, you're seeing that. You don't see computers taking 545 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 4: over like some people think them more being incorporated with 546 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 4: us transhumanist ish. And if we have the chips in 547 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 4: our brain and we're constantly linked to the cloud with 548 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 4: a direct access to the collective information without an input 549 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 4: device like a phone, is that how you see it? 550 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 4: That we would be just always interacting that way? And 551 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 4: we were talking about my class of pepperdine. Is this 552 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 4: really that much different for young people now, this ever 553 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 4: present thing in their phone from something brain computer interface. 554 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 4: I don't think there's really that much of a divide 555 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 4: behind between that. I'll say this, I'm not Pollyannash in 556 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 4: my vision of the future. I don't think sky net wakes. 557 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 5: Up The uniquely terrifying outcome or one of them with 558 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 5: my view is that now you have assholes with machine capabilities, 559 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 5: and that scares me. People tend to think at AI 560 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 5: as one monolithic thing of water that merges together. People 561 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 5: will have competing AIS, and you're going to have bad 562 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 5: people with powerful AIS. Even before it's sentient or where 563 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 5: most people think it's awake and conscious and deserved rights 564 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 5: and things. People will have very powerful AIS that they 565 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 5: can control in a very asymmetric way, where it's not 566 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 5: sort of nation state level. And one of the very 567 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 5: prosaic concerns I have is we are now seeing data 568 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 5: centers in space, which is an ideal place for AI 569 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 5: data centers because you have unfiltered by the atmosphere solar 570 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 5: power twenty four hours a day on one side, and 571 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 5: you can cool on the other side, and you are 572 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 5: not subject to any governmental or utility regulations. So we're 573 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 5: going to see this massive migration of power from governments 574 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 5: of various levels to tech bros in space. 575 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 4: All right, let me ask you about this parallel idea. 576 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 4: You say that in the near future you could see 577 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 4: us all having chips in our head tapping into the 578 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 4: collective information on a cloud as they call it. Isn't 579 00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 4: that interesting? How it sounds eerily exactly how many people 580 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 4: believe we already operate that our consciousness is non local, 581 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 4: and our receiver in our brain is tapping into the 582 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 4: Akashak record for all our interconnected knowledge. 583 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 5: Now naturally, yeah, I completely agree. I think we are 584 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 5: thin clients in computer parlance, that we are receiving signals 585 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 5: and it's not all local. This notion of communication I 586 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 5: think works both on a galactic, human and microscopic level. 587 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 5: And one of the beautiful things that Michael Levin is showing, 588 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 5: and it may not apply to all cancers, but that 589 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 5: cancer very well may be not a disease that's attacking you, 590 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 5: but a rupture in communication when the cell no longer 591 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 5: realizes it's part of an organism and therefore reverts to 592 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 5: primitive immeeble like behavior and gobbles things up, which is 593 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 5: what unicell your organisms do. So he is shown by 594 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 5: in putting new signals into what he calls the bioelectric field, 595 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 5: that he can restore that communication with the cells make 596 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 5: and realize they are part of an organism and what 597 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 5: we call behave with no drugs, no scalpels. Do we 598 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 5: tend to demonize things and I think a lot of 599 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 5: things in life are just about communications. When an individual 600 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 5: is sort of cut off from the pack, he can 601 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 5: experience all sorts of mental trauma, and I think this 602 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 5: may operate on a galactic level too. 603 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 4: When we come back, we're going to ask Paul about 604 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 4: the overlaps between the simulation theory and the UFO phenomenon. 605 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 4: You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast 606 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 4: to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on 607 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 4: Beyond Contact and we're speaking with Paul Heinek. Do you 608 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 4: see any overlap between the simulation theory and either the 609 00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 4: UFO phenomenon or certainly the DMT realm which is riddled 610 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 4: with math and code. 611 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 5: You know, a lot of people when they take DMT 612 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 5: report seeing and I've seen this like a grid and 613 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 5: not always like fractal curly things, but right angles. And 614 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 5: to me, that's like the digital overlay. And a good 615 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 5: friend of mine, I have facilitated sessions with him and 616 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 5: he's come out and said it's divine digital and he 617 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 5: says this in this very flowery Italian way, and to me, 618 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 5: that's sort of the north star. That's what has guided 619 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 5: me to what I think things are, and I'm just 620 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 5: trying to backfill as best I can from there, you know, 621 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 5: get back what I said before. I think there may 622 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 5: be a common strate, substrate between these what we consider 623 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 5: different phenomena. I think there may be a land bridge 624 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 5: between DMT and aliens and AI, and it's all part 625 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 5: of the same thing, and we're just coming at it 626 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 5: from different angles and getting into different depths at different times. 627 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 4: Going back to this idea of an intelligence traveling across 628 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 4: the universe, there's so much to overcome, you know. And 629 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 4: another aspect would be they would have to be right 630 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 4: at that point in their develop where they had a 631 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 4: certain technological phase, and then we would also have to 632 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 4: be at that same phase. So what overlap that we 633 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 4: could even detect them? As we talked about on cosmic scales, 634 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 4: this becomes even more unlikely, right Yeah. 635 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 5: I think one thing that's sort of comforting is that 636 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 5: in the history of the world, we've seen that when 637 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 5: one civilization with superior technology meets another one, it usually 638 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 5: doesn't end that well for the civilization with the inferior technology. 639 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 5: A lot of people have, you know, in addition to 640 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 5: I have doomsday feelings about aliens of war the world 641 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 5: and all this. It's pretty clear to me that if 642 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 5: aliens be they interdimensional or extraterrestrial we're coming here with 643 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 5: pure hostile motives, we would either know it or not, 644 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 5: because we'd be dead or enslaved right away. 645 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 4: You know. 646 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 5: The very worst they're doing, like you said, hybridization or 647 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 5: some type of manimulation. So it's like neutral or better 648 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 5: than that. Doesn't seem like we have a lot to 649 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 5: worry about. And again, I just don't see super far 650 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 5: advanced aliens coming here for any reason apart from categorical 651 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 5: mapping of the quadrant. 652 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 4: I think all of this is an argument for the 653 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,919 Speaker 4: phenomenon being housed in something more terrestrial, Like we talked 654 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 4: about earlier, that perhaps it's just a parallel world, you know, 655 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 4: maybe they're phase shifted or something, or vibrating at a 656 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 4: different thing than we can detect, perhaps like infinite realms 657 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 4: like Wow in the desert. One would say that that 658 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 4: is a possibility, Paul. You know another area that you 659 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 4: like to talk about is the proof protocols, which you've 660 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 4: brought up a couple of times. This is right up 661 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 4: my alley, of course. Can you share with us what 662 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 4: you mean by that and how this would apply to 663 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 4: the UFO phenomenon or to even DMT experiences. 664 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,799 Speaker 5: Yeah, so my father came up with the close encounters 665 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 5: classification system. Close encountered the first kind within five hundred 666 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 5: feet or so of the second kind some kind of 667 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 5: physical evidence, and the third kind reporting that there's some entity. 668 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 5: And this has stood the test of time and it's 669 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 5: proved useful for people to sort of categorize cases, and 670 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 5: scientists always like to have rubrics. What it doesn't do 671 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 5: is speak to like the type of evidence and how 672 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 5: compelling it is. So my brother Joel and I have 673 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 5: come up with another sort of classification system to piggyback 674 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 5: on that that talks about the type of evidence and 675 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 5: how compelling or convincing it is. Again not saying proof, 676 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 5: So now we can say, oh, it's there's biological evidence 677 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 5: or technological or knowledge, et cetera, and it is curious, compelling, 678 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 5: or convincing. 679 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 4: Now, this next question is something that I ask every 680 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 4: single guest that comes on, and you guys probably have 681 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 4: talked about that to each other all the time. It's 682 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 4: a very common question. How does bitcoin come into play 683 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 4: with psychedelics and UFO encounters regarding the US government. As 684 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 4: insane as that question is, I think Paul could spend 685 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 4: the rest of the afternoon talking about it, But could 686 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 4: you answer it in a nutshell for us? 687 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 5: In a nutshell? How does it relate on a nutshell very? 688 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 5: How do those three things? Yeah, let's start off with 689 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 5: sort of the outlook and the US government's role. I, 690 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 5: like everybody here, are big fans of the three letter 691 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 5: government agencies. Great work for us, But the US government 692 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 5: is a bad faith, corrupt central actor in UFOs, psychedelics, 693 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 5: and cryptocurrency. So let's start with that. Now, Psychedelics have 694 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 5: been pushed back for years because of the Nixon administration. 695 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 5: The War on drugs, as has come out, was not 696 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:29,319 Speaker 5: fought because of concern for the nation's youth. It was 697 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 5: to demonize brown people and hippies, and only recently is 698 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 5: their sort of clinical prestige and therapeutic trials. Coming back 699 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 5: to psychedelics, each of these three areas, psychedelics, UFOs, and 700 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 5: the same Bitcoin in particular, do pose threats to the 701 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 5: monopoly power of the US government. Now, because I feel 702 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 5: that aliens are likely millions of years past us, let's say, 703 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 5: extra trustle were they coming, and that, as you mentioned 704 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 5: DMT entities, maybe billions of years. It's just a spectrum. 705 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 5: So they're related in terms of far more advanced than us. 706 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 5: Bitcoin is a digital native currency, and now with the 707 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 5: tremendous snowballing progress of AI, I think we're going to 708 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:17,280 Speaker 5: see cryptocurrency really coming to the four because it works 709 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 5: so well with AI as opposed to broken payment rails 710 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 5: of fiat currency. And there is a concept of bitcoin astronomy. 711 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 5: If there are civilizations out there and they have finite resources, 712 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,720 Speaker 5: individuals with individual economic motives, and they don't have magic, 713 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 5: they will almost certainly, and I agree with this, develop 714 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,840 Speaker 5: something akin to bitcoin in that there is a proof 715 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 5: of work protocol for creation of value and almost always 716 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,320 Speaker 5: related to energy, and that's what bitcoin is. Bitcoin converts 717 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 5: energy into value. We don't have time to get into this, 718 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 5: but bitcoin is good for the environment. And you know, 719 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 5: when we colonize Mars, are they going to use dollars 720 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 5: and monitor the FED broadcast? No, they I think they 721 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 5: will use bitcoin, and they will become frustrated because they 722 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 5: can't mine, and they will start their own coin called 723 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 5: Mars Coin. Bitcoin will start to be called earth coin 724 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 5: and will represent our planetary credit score, and it would 725 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 5: be a way for us to have sort of a 726 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 5: you know, lingual currency franca with other civilizations. To me, 727 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,360 Speaker 5: a lot of people in the UFO field think with 728 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 5: some reason that our nuclear progress is a negative beacon 729 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 5: to other civilizations. That the Galactic Federation has a special 730 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,719 Speaker 5: council for that and they're concerned about the risk to 731 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,359 Speaker 5: us and others. Could well be we also have observational 732 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 5: bias around nuclear facilities where we have more detection elements there. 733 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 5: I think that bitcoin and blockchain could well be a 734 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 5: positive beacon to other civilizations, that we are now finally 735 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 5: in a state of sophistication of decentralization, which is the 736 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 5: balm to much of what ails us. That we have 737 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,800 Speaker 5: gotten to this point of taking out corrupt central actors 738 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 5: in a lot of the domains of our life. 739 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 4: To bring this full circle, what would your dad think? 740 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 4: Do you feel about the congressional hearings that we've been 741 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,479 Speaker 4: having in Congress, the more open attitude we're seeing about 742 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 4: UFOs and disclosure. 743 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 5: I think he would think that what the Navy says 744 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,719 Speaker 5: is very interesting, but you know, fifty years has not 745 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:28,720 Speaker 5: been that much progress. 746 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 4: What do you think he would find most concerning to 747 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 4: him right now? 748 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 5: Wow, the fact that I'm talking about this stuff perhaps. 749 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 4: That concerns all of us. I'm wondering if he felt, like, 750 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 4: you know, if there's something that we're going down the 751 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,720 Speaker 4: wrong path? Perhaps is it the cover up stuff. 752 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 5: There's no more cover up than there was in his day, 753 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 5: and there were active disinformation agents and campaigns. Project Bluebook 754 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,799 Speaker 5: with which he was associated was a PR exercise. It 755 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 5: was not a legitimate scientific endeavor. So I don't think 756 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 5: really much has changed, And I think he would just say, Wow, 757 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:01,800 Speaker 5: that's a big old nothing burger. 758 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 4: Do you have a book that you would recommend all 759 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 4: of us read? 760 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,839 Speaker 5: Yeah? The Singularity is Nearer by Ray Kurzwell. You may 761 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 5: or may not like the idea of a potential merger 762 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 5: between humans and AI, but Ray Kurzwell lays out such 763 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 5: great data points for what would need to happen for 764 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 5: this type of singularity to occur, and whether or not 765 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 5: you subscribe to that belief or whether you like it 766 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 5: or not to be informed about what an increasingly large 767 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,240 Speaker 5: number of people in influential positions think. 768 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 4: Hey, Understan, you're going to go to Contact in the 769 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 4: desert this year with your whole family. The siblings will 770 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,320 Speaker 4: be there, and you're going to have doctor Jacques Vallet 771 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 4: with you tell us about that. 772 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really going to be an emotional thing for me. 773 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,359 Speaker 5: I love my siblings, and I've been more active at 774 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,800 Speaker 5: conferences and television, et cetera. And it's a great chance 775 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 5: for people to hear from smarter heinez than me, who 776 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,400 Speaker 5: have very interesting viewpoints. And to have us all together 777 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 5: for a good reason, just in and of itself is 778 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 5: so exciting to me. And to be with our family 779 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,280 Speaker 5: friend who all of us have known all of our lives. 780 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 5: You know. I remember Jacques handing me in the Vogelback 781 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:19,279 Speaker 5: Computing Center at Northwestern University IBM punch cards that said 782 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,240 Speaker 5: do not fold, spindle, or mutilate. And I remember Jaques 783 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 5: explaining to me how these little holes fit in on 784 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 5: these cards and told computers what to do. And I 785 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 5: had this romanticized notion of humans and computers talking by 786 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 5: hanging chats. Essentially incredible. 787 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 4: Everyone can now wake up. This has been a sleep 788 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 4: meditation by Paul Heinek. Thanks Paul, always fun having you on. 789 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,879 Speaker 4: You Guys can find me on Twitter and Instagram at 790 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 4: CID Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking out contact 791 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,279 Speaker 4: inthethesert dot com. Stay open minded and rational as we 792 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 4: explore the unknown right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast 793 00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,840 Speaker 4: to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network. 794 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,839 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost 795 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,879 Speaker 1: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out 796 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,160 Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going 797 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 1: to iHeartRadio dot com