1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,600
Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by HKX, Asia's ETF marketplace. Well,

2
00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,719
Speaker 1: you'll find a gateway to liquidity and a diverse selection

3
00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:13,320
Speaker 1: of opportunities across asset classes, sectors, and themes in Asia

4
00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,720
Speaker 1: and beyond. Search HKX to learn more.

5
00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,520
Speaker 2: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good nights wherever

6
00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,480
Speaker 2: you are in this vast beautiful planets. Welcome to tig

7
00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,160
Speaker 2: your money for. This is a Bloomberg podcast about investing

8
00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,920
Speaker 2: financial markets and ETFs capital chases. The best returns and

9
00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:36,080
Speaker 2: trillions of dollars have flowed into global ETF in recent years,

10
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,480
Speaker 2: so let's listen to really how funds are transforming these markets,

11
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 2: along products, themes, and everything in between. I'm David Ingless,

12
00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:50,080
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's non award winning journalists strictly all talk, especially no money.

13
00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,080
Speaker 2: I'm also the Chief Markets editor for the Asia Pacific

14
00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,560
Speaker 2: for Bloomberg TV, and I'm also the host of the

15
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,520
Speaker 2: China Show. And together with me is my co pilots

16
00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,360
Speaker 2: Etfstage and Tiger Mom, Rebecca sim She's head of Asia

17
00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:06,680
Speaker 2: Pacific ETF Research at Bloomberg Intelligence, Bloomberg's pop research departments.

18
00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,920
Speaker 2: We have five hundred analysts across the world, covering more

19
00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:15,240
Speaker 2: than two thousand companies ninety industries in one hundred market benchmarks.

20
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:20,400
Speaker 2: Keep in mind this conversation is strictly non confidential, so

21
00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,399
Speaker 2: if you like what you hear, do not forget to

22
00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,320
Speaker 2: subscribe to like, and of course do share with everyone

23
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:26,840
Speaker 2: that you know.

24
00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,200
Speaker 3: Rebecca, thank you David. Today we're very excited to have

25
00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,520
Speaker 3: doctor Mark Mobius join us on this conversation. He's one

26
00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,440
Speaker 3: of the most successful and influential money managers in the

27
00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,720
Speaker 3: past thirty years and currently chairman of the Mobius Emerging

28
00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,920
Speaker 3: Opportunity Funds. What you may not know is he didn't

29
00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,759
Speaker 3: become a fund manager until he was in his fifties.

30
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,560
Speaker 3: Mark was hired by Sir John Templeton to run one

31
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,840
Speaker 3: of the first emerging market funds in nineteen eighty seven.

32
00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,400
Speaker 3: At the time, he was tasked with opening Franklin's Templeton's

33
00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,440
Speaker 3: first Asia office, and he picked Hong Kong, where Dave

34
00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,000
Speaker 3: and I are situated, where it was originally had a

35
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,080
Speaker 3: consulting business. Mark plans to launch a new hedge fund

36
00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,800
Speaker 3: in September this year, called the Mobius Emerging Opportunity Fund.

37
00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,400
Speaker 3: By then, he'll be eighty eight years old. In his

38
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,840
Speaker 3: free time, he enjoys writing and has published thirteen books,

39
00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,840
Speaker 3: with the most recent publication the Book of Wealth, A

40
00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,320
Speaker 3: Young Investor's Guide to Welcome Happiness. Welcome Mark, and we're

41
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 3: so excited to have you on Tiger Money.

42
00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:23,800
Speaker 4: Well, thank you very much.

43
00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,959
Speaker 2: So Mart, what's keeping you most busy at the moment?

44
00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,560
Speaker 4: Well, of course, you know, the launch of the Mobius

45
00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,560
Speaker 4: Emerging Opportunities Fund is really keeping me busy. You know.

46
00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,560
Speaker 4: To launch a fund registered in Delaware with the feeder

47
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,760
Speaker 4: in Bridge, Virgin Islands is a big undertaking. I was

48
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,800
Speaker 4: managing money so many years Franklin Templeton that I was

49
00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,520
Speaker 4: never involved in the nitty gritty of oh, you know what,

50
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,120
Speaker 4: the legal side and the all the mechanical side and

51
00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,880
Speaker 4: the bureaucratic side. But now I'm involved in that and

52
00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,280
Speaker 4: it's quite something. It's a big experience.

53
00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,760
Speaker 2: Okay, So what do we expect the fund to launch?

54
00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,639
Speaker 2: Give us a sense of the timeline and where you

55
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 2: are in the process at the moment.

56
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,120
Speaker 4: Well, September is a launch date and we're preparing very

57
00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,560
Speaker 4: carefully to make sure everything is in order, and so

58
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,720
Speaker 4: that's when money will go in and we'll start investing,

59
00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,520
Speaker 4: and the approach, by the way, is very different from

60
00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:17,800
Speaker 4: what I've done before in the sense that, as you know,

61
00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,240
Speaker 4: emerging markets is where I really did most of my

62
00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,840
Speaker 4: work in investing. But I'm calling it the emerging opportunities

63
00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,480
Speaker 4: because I've seen how emerging markets have changed so much.

64
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,160
Speaker 4: You've seen a lot of these countries come up. Previously,

65
00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,720
Speaker 4: the way you defined an emerging market was the low

66
00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,000
Speaker 4: and middle income countries on a per capital basis, And

67
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,760
Speaker 4: you have a situation now where Korea has got a

68
00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,560
Speaker 4: per capita income higher than Spain. So is it an

69
00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,080
Speaker 4: emerging market or not? That's one thing. The other thing

70
00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,160
Speaker 4: is we found that a lot of these companies around

71
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:55,000
Speaker 4: the world are getting earnings and profits from emerging countries.

72
00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,800
Speaker 4: So you have stocks listed in New York which have

73
00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:03,480
Speaker 4: a big share of their earn and profits from China, India, wherever,

74
00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,040
Speaker 4: all these emerging market countries. So we're going to look

75
00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,520
Speaker 4: for opportunities globally, but particularly the high growth areas. That's

76
00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:12,600
Speaker 4: the idea.

77
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,480
Speaker 2: So you started out investing in ems. Was it the

78
00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,719
Speaker 2: mid eighties? Correct me if I'm wrong, roughly yes, eighty seven

79
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,000
Speaker 2: eighty seven. I mean, I would imagine that your investment

80
00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 2: universe now is just vastly larger than the pool of

81
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,560
Speaker 2: securities that you had to pick back then. And I'm wondering,

82
00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,120
Speaker 2: is it more difficult these days or is it actually easier.

83
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,680
Speaker 4: Well, well, first of all, what we saw in nineteen

84
00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,520
Speaker 4: eighty seven, I remember we opened up a small office

85
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,479
Speaker 4: in Hong Kong. It was the first overseas office that

86
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,520
Speaker 4: John Templin had. He was based in Bahamas, you know,

87
00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,159
Speaker 4: that had a little office, a few offices in Florida,

88
00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,279
Speaker 4: but that was that. So that was a big change.

89
00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,160
Speaker 4: Number one. At that time, we only had five markets

90
00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,839
Speaker 4: in which to invest Hong Kong, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, and Mexico.

91
00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,120
Speaker 4: All these other markets were closed. You had the dictatorships

92
00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,720
Speaker 4: or socialist countries that didn't believe in market economy, et cetera,

93
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,200
Speaker 4: et cetera. Of course, no China, no Russia, India was

94
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,599
Speaker 4: closed as well. You know. We then started the process

95
00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 4: of opening up these markets, and thanks to the IFC,

96
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,719
Speaker 4: the World Bank economists finally concluded that in order to grow,

97
00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,040
Speaker 4: in order to become a rich economy, you've got to

98
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,559
Speaker 4: have a market economy. And that's when things really began

99
00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:27,680
Speaker 4: to change. At the end of the day, it was

100
00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,919
Speaker 4: about seventy countries that we opened up and we started

101
00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,680
Speaker 4: investing in the stocks in those countries. So it was

102
00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,080
Speaker 4: incredible because we started with one hundred million dollars, which

103
00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,360
Speaker 4: was so difficult to invest at that time. And by

104
00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,279
Speaker 4: the way, that tied me in with my work at MIT.

105
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,360
Speaker 4: You know, I studied economics and political science at MIT,

106
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,880
Speaker 4: and at that time, the professors were asking the questions,

107
00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,320
Speaker 4: how can we get these countries to grow, the so

108
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,920
Speaker 4: called Third World, the poorer countries, And some professors came

109
00:05:58,000 --> 00:05:59,920
Speaker 4: up with the answer, You've got to build a power plant,

110
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 4: you've got to build a railroad, whatever. But finally they

111
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,240
Speaker 4: concluded you have to have a market economy. And that's

112
00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,279
Speaker 4: really an incredible revolution that's taking place. It's still taking

113
00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,600
Speaker 4: place around the world, and at the peak we had

114
00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,960
Speaker 4: about sixty billion dollars in emerging markets. And that's just

115
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,479
Speaker 4: Franklin Templeton. Of course, there were many others that came in.

116
00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:23,839
Speaker 4: So it's been a revolutionary change.

117
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,200
Speaker 2: So Mark, I'm curious, what do you think. You know,

118
00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,560
Speaker 2: there's been a massive change, and I'm stating the obvious here.

119
00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,960
Speaker 2: From the time you started investing in eighty seven to

120
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,240
Speaker 2: fast forward over thirty years to where we are today.

121
00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,159
Speaker 2: For one, they're just more em markets to pick from then.

122
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,719
Speaker 2: I would imagine what was your limited pool of choices

123
00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,520
Speaker 2: back then. And the other is you have this massive

124
00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,680
Speaker 2: economy that's come up almost from zero, not quite, but

125
00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,320
Speaker 2: all the way from zero to where it is today,

126
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,039
Speaker 2: which is China. Where does it leave China, for example,

127
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,320
Speaker 2: which has seen a lot of outlaws, I should say,

128
00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:57,760
Speaker 2: in recent years.

129
00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,480
Speaker 4: You know, we've had an incredible wealth creation in China.

130
00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:06,320
Speaker 4: The big change came in China when Deng Shaoping said, look,

131
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,799
Speaker 4: I don't care if the cat is black or white,

132
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,160
Speaker 4: as long as it catches the mice, and he said,

133
00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,400
Speaker 4: you know, it's glorious to be wealthy. That was a big,

134
00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:20,280
Speaker 4: big change in attitude and strategy for China. And now

135
00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,360
Speaker 4: India's coming along. But you know, the story for China

136
00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,239
Speaker 4: is not over, that's for sure. Yes, many investors lost

137
00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,040
Speaker 4: money in the big downfall in the market, but that's

138
00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,760
Speaker 4: a temporary thing as far as I'm concerned, because you

139
00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:38,560
Speaker 4: have an incredibly productive nation. And yes, they overdid it

140
00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 4: on the property side, just as Japan did. As you know,

141
00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,680
Speaker 4: Japan went through the same process with a property boom

142
00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,960
Speaker 4: and bust, but they will recover, and they are now recovering,

143
00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:49,880
Speaker 4: and we'll see the market come back.

144
00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,680
Speaker 2: That's a fantastic example on bringing up the Japan analogy

145
00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,960
Speaker 2: because to some that's actually a warning sign of what

146
00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,080
Speaker 2: could become of China. Japan entered two and a half

147
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,920
Speaker 2: decades of deflation and it only now is starting to

148
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,119
Speaker 2: re emerge from it. So I guess what you're seeing

149
00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,720
Speaker 2: is and correct me if I'm wrong. China is not Japan.

150
00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,600
Speaker 2: There's a difference there. What is the difference in your view?

151
00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,760
Speaker 4: The difference is that Japanese people tend to be very,

152
00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 4: very conservative and somewhat longer term in their thinking. So

153
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,360
Speaker 4: when you have a crash like that, they tend to

154
00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,840
Speaker 4: gower into the corner and say, look, we're not going

155
00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:28,800
Speaker 4: to spend, We're going to save to make sure it

156
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,800
Speaker 4: doesn't happen again, et cetera, et cetera. With Chinese they're

157
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,840
Speaker 4: much more flexible and much more enterprising in that sense.

158
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,200
Speaker 4: So the Chinese will get back to work and they say, no,

159
00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 4: that was yesterday, it's today, and we're going to move

160
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,360
Speaker 4: forward and create new wealth. So China is going to

161
00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,680
Speaker 4: be transformed from a property oriented economy to more of

162
00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,520
Speaker 4: a consumer oriented economy, and you're going to see a

163
00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,440
Speaker 4: big change, just as you now beginning to see in Japan.

164
00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,400
Speaker 3: I think from a funds perspective, we are definitely seeing

165
00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,040
Speaker 3: that in terms of assets under management. Our prediction is

166
00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,040
Speaker 3: that China will surpass Japan in the coming years, just

167
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,320
Speaker 3: because we've seen so much growth coming out of China.

168
00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,520
Speaker 3: This year alone, we've had the National Team, which is

169
00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,520
Speaker 3: a sovereign wealth fund of China, invest close to fifty

170
00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,280
Speaker 3: billion dollars worth of ETFs into their own market, and

171
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,440
Speaker 3: so we think that the growth in China is going

172
00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,200
Speaker 3: to be phenomenal in the coming years. If we shift

173
00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,840
Speaker 3: gear to India, I mentioned India previously. India has had

174
00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,480
Speaker 3: phenomenal growth. From a fund closer perspective, we've seen one

175
00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:36,400
Speaker 3: hundred and sixteen billion in ETF assets. A lot of

176
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,440
Speaker 3: people are investing into India right now, and from funds perspective,

177
00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,640
Speaker 3: we've had new launches from Fidelity Global, Eggs, HSBC, Mire

178
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:49,120
Speaker 3: who have all launched ETFs tracking India following the election.

179
00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,240
Speaker 3: How confident are you around the investment thesis surrounding India.

180
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,679
Speaker 3: Do you expect any structural reforms to be delayed or

181
00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,559
Speaker 3: watered down, and if so, will this dilute your focus on India.

182
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,520
Speaker 4: I don't think the election will have much impact in

183
00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,880
Speaker 4: that sense, because remember Modi is still at the top.

184
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,080
Speaker 4: Of course, now he has to make peace with the

185
00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,120
Speaker 4: opponent's bodies. But I think they all will realize that

186
00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,960
Speaker 4: India's got to keep on the same track towards digitization,

187
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,319
Speaker 4: towards technology, and I think they're pretty much agreed on that.

188
00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,560
Speaker 4: And you know the interesting thing about India. I like

189
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,320
Speaker 4: to call India the United States of India because these

190
00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,240
Speaker 4: states are very different one from the other, more different

191
00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,640
Speaker 4: than what you see in China or the US or

192
00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:41,760
Speaker 4: any other country. Different languages, different cultures. And the exciting

193
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,040
Speaker 4: thing is that one state with maybe thirty or forty

194
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:49,560
Speaker 4: or fifty million people can create an economy that is

195
00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,240
Speaker 4: quite productive and quite varied. So I think you can

196
00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,280
Speaker 4: see India moving ahead because these states compete with each

197
00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:00,800
Speaker 4: other to be the best, and because Modi his home state,

198
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:06,080
Speaker 4: has started a more liberal investment system, which I think

199
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,560
Speaker 4: other states are going to copy, so that will attract

200
00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,000
Speaker 4: more foreign investment.

201
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,160
Speaker 2: Part of the conversation we've seen recently and this might

202
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,200
Speaker 2: be cyclical, right, So you know, some of the weakness

203
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,800
Speaker 2: mark we've seen in the Chinese equity market has inevitably

204
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,760
Speaker 2: shifted some of the funds that would have been there.

205
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,400
Speaker 2: They've now played in India, maybe a lesser extent. Some

206
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,439
Speaker 2: have gone to Japan. And some of the new strategies

207
00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,320
Speaker 2: that have emerged because of that sort of phenomenon of

208
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 2: flows is that some EM fund managers have started em

209
00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,040
Speaker 2: X China strategies, for example, some have started a purely

210
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,440
Speaker 2: India strategy because of the interest there from someone who's

211
00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,280
Speaker 2: been investing in ems for a very long time. Is

212
00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,679
Speaker 2: it time to stop looking at this group as one.

213
00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true. And that's the reason why my new

214
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:54,000
Speaker 4: fund is called the Emerging Opportunities, because I think it

215
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,880
Speaker 4: doesn't make sense to just say, Okay, I'm just going

216
00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,240
Speaker 4: to go into India or go into China, or go

217
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,360
Speaker 4: into emerging markets. You got to look global. And of course, yes,

218
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,920
Speaker 4: emerging countries are growing faster than the developed countries, no

219
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:13,079
Speaker 4: question about that. Is double the growth rate. So therefore

220
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,680
Speaker 4: there's going to be more opportunities in the emerging countries.

221
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,720
Speaker 4: But there are so many companies listed in New York

222
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:25,480
Speaker 4: and London other developed markets where the companies are actually

223
00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,480
Speaker 4: emerging market companies because their earnings are from the emerging

224
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,719
Speaker 4: countries like India, China, Brazil and other countries like that.

225
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,080
Speaker 4: So we've got to widen our scope if we want

226
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:37,600
Speaker 4: to be good investors.

227
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,000
Speaker 3: If we shift gear and we look at where the

228
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,360
Speaker 3: prizes had been in elections this year, you know, South Africa, Mexico,

229
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,720
Speaker 3: India in the past few weeks. Do you think investors

230
00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,840
Speaker 3: have been too complacent around pricing in election risk and

231
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,319
Speaker 3: do you see any potential election risk down the road,

232
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,880
Speaker 3: especially with the UK and US elections coming up.

233
00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,440
Speaker 4: You know, a lot of the the election news and

234
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:08,280
Speaker 4: development is peripheral, really peripheral to the market because at

235
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,800
Speaker 4: the end of the day, it's the economy that drives

236
00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,400
Speaker 4: the market. If the economy is doing well, regardless of

237
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,160
Speaker 4: who's in charge politically, then the market will do well.

238
00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,439
Speaker 4: And in the case of the US, whether it's Biden

239
00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,480
Speaker 4: or Trump, there may be some changes on the fringe,

240
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,280
Speaker 4: but the fundamental development of the economy is not going

241
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,320
Speaker 4: to change that much. Same thing is true with China.

242
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,040
Speaker 4: Within the it's the economy that really drives the markets

243
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,640
Speaker 4: rather than the political system. Now, of course, if you

244
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 4: have a very dramatic change, for example, if Trump comes

245
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,280
Speaker 4: in and said, look, I'm going to eliminate capital gain sex,

246
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,200
Speaker 4: that's going to happen incredible impact. But it's unlikely to

247
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,120
Speaker 4: happen in the short term, that's for sure. There'll be

248
00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,719
Speaker 4: a lot of discussion before something like that happens.

249
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,280
Speaker 2: This is an interesting case, right, So the US equity

250
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:04,880
Speaker 2: market has just outperformed almost consistently when you compare it

251
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,520
Speaker 2: to the EM basket for example, right, and I think

252
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:09,320
Speaker 2: you and me and Mark we were having a conversa

253
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,280
Speaker 2: I forget which year was this, a couple of years ago,

254
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,240
Speaker 2: and you brought up the point that you just made

255
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,880
Speaker 2: that if you simply take EM, there will always be

256
00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,800
Speaker 2: a year where one EM market underperforms and drags the

257
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,960
Speaker 2: whole basket down. So I'm wondering, what is the argument

258
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,320
Speaker 2: or what is the best case you can make against

259
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,920
Speaker 2: US exceptionalism that there is a case to be made

260
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:31,880
Speaker 2: to be long ems and simply not just leave your

261
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:33,960
Speaker 2: money and close your eyes and wait. Say in an

262
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,200
Speaker 2: S and P. Five hundred ETF.

263
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,320
Speaker 4: For example, Well, if you look at the long term

264
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,920
Speaker 4: record we're talking about from nineteen eighty seven when the

265
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,840
Speaker 4: Emerging Markets Index was formulated to now and the S

266
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,360
Speaker 4: ANDB five hundred. According to numbers I have emerging markets

267
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,240
Speaker 4: out performed. So if you stayed in that of course,

268
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,760
Speaker 4: a lot of people don't have the guts and the

269
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,480
Speaker 4: patients to do that. If you stayed in, you've done

270
00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:02,160
Speaker 4: better with emerging countries. But you've had incredible volatility, right

271
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,360
Speaker 4: and recently you've seen emerging markets have outperformed certain periods

272
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,320
Speaker 4: the S and P five hundred. But as I mentioned,

273
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 4: the S and P five hundred now contains so many

274
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:17,520
Speaker 4: companies that are benefiting from the growth in emerging countries.

275
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,080
Speaker 4: So you've got to be aware of the fact that

276
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,760
Speaker 4: when you buy Apple, you are buying not the US

277
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,360
Speaker 4: market only, but you're buying China, India, et cetera, et cetera.

278
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:33,840
Speaker 4: So these countries are enabling the American companies, the multinational

279
00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,640
Speaker 4: companies to earn greater and greater profits, and there after

280
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,600
Speaker 4: their stock reflects that. Right.

281
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,520
Speaker 2: So your MOBIU is Emerging Opportunities Fund that's about to

282
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,920
Speaker 2: come online. Are you saying that everything is fair game?

283
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,520
Speaker 2: So a company like Apple, which you correctly point out,

284
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,240
Speaker 2: you're effectively buying an EM stock if you think about

285
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,560
Speaker 2: it longer term, because increasingly their pious China, India Tesla

286
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,040
Speaker 2: is another one. For example, would you be would the

287
00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,200
Speaker 2: S and P five hundred companies or would stocks in

288
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,520
Speaker 2: the US be part of your eligible investment universe? Is

289
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:03,240
Speaker 2: what I want to ask you.

290
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 4: Yes, definitely, yes, there's no question about that. And don't

291
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,840
Speaker 4: forget ADRs. Lots of ADRs are listed more and more.

292
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 4: You can see emerging market companies listed in New York

293
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:14,400
Speaker 4: of course of liquidity.

294
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:20,200
Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by HKX Asia's ETF marketplace,

295
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,520
Speaker 1: where you can get exposure to themes ranging from AI

296
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,840
Speaker 1: to virtual assets, small cap to large cap Greater China

297
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,200
Speaker 1: to global search. HKX to learn more.

298
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,200
Speaker 3: So one of the questions we get asked a lot

299
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,440
Speaker 3: is can active and passive coexist? You know you're an

300
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,640
Speaker 3: active fund managers, but we've seen a huge growth across

301
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 3: passive ETFs. AUM is at thirteen trillion. Now, there's some

302
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,760
Speaker 3: estimates that say by twenty thirty three is going to

303
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,360
Speaker 3: reach thirty trillion, Some say twenty thirty And so what

304
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,880
Speaker 3: are your thoughts around active and passive coexisting.

305
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:59,080
Speaker 4: Well, I love this differentiation because it enables us active

306
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 4: managers to do because as more and more people move

307
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,959
Speaker 4: into index stocks, we can then outperform because we can

308
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,200
Speaker 4: do something different. And I'll give you a good example

309
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,400
Speaker 4: of that. There were so many people who were in

310
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:18,280
Speaker 4: the emerging markets passively. They were buying the Emerging Markets index,

311
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,840
Speaker 4: and they got terribly burned when China went down because

312
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 4: China represented thirty percent of the index. The index crashed,

313
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,480
Speaker 4: they got burned. In our case, we weren't in China

314
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,320
Speaker 4: at that time, so we benefited from this difference. I

315
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,960
Speaker 4: like the fact that more and more people are going

316
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,080
Speaker 4: into the indexed area because it gives the active measures

317
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:41,880
Speaker 4: more room to play, so to speak.

318
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,840
Speaker 2: Okay, so top of your head, rough estimation, what do

319
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 2: you think your exposure breakdown would be for this fund?

320
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,960
Speaker 2: Would it be, for example, twenty percent India, thirty percent China?

321
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,560
Speaker 2: What would be your best guess at this point in time.

322
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,120
Speaker 4: At this stage would probably be something like I think

323
00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,560
Speaker 4: twenty percent in India would be a good sign point,

324
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,359
Speaker 4: twenty percent in Taiwan and mainland China, or maybe a

325
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,920
Speaker 4: little bit more so that's me thirty percent there and

326
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,480
Speaker 4: then the rest in places like Brazil Turkey, but believe

327
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,680
Speaker 4: it or not, despite the evaluation of the Turkish LERA

328
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,720
Speaker 4: is doing very well. And then maybe a little bit

329
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:23,600
Speaker 4: more in countries like Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia.

330
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,560
Speaker 3: So in terms of investment opportunities, you've given us a

331
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,680
Speaker 3: breakdown from a geographical focus, where do you think investment

332
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,720
Speaker 3: opportunities are key drivers of growth? For instance, in the

333
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:39,040
Speaker 3: fund space, we've seen a huge interest in virtual assets, crypto, bitcoin, ether,

334
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,200
Speaker 3: AI has been a big theme and a lot of

335
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,840
Speaker 3: people are incorporating AI into their investments. In terms of

336
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 3: virtual assets ETF, they've gathered more than one hundred billion

337
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,240
Speaker 3: in assets under management this year. Tech has been a

338
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,080
Speaker 3: big theme for a lot of investors. You know, it's

339
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,640
Speaker 3: done very, very well in the past few years. Where

340
00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,200
Speaker 3: do you think the investment opportunities are beyond geographical focus?

341
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,840
Speaker 4: Well, raise a very good point, and that is the

342
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 4: impact of technology on fund management itself. In our case

343
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,720
Speaker 4: with our new fund, we're using what they call a

344
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 4: quantumental approach, in other words, using quant techniques plus fundamental systems,

345
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,639
Speaker 4: and of course overlaying all of this is AI, because

346
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,720
Speaker 4: with the AI tool we can cover much more data

347
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 4: like never before and much faster. So this combination of

348
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 4: technologies is going to be really useful to us in

349
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,880
Speaker 4: running funds, and not only for us but for other

350
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,440
Speaker 4: fund managers. And now that related to that, of course,

351
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,480
Speaker 4: is where do you go in terms of picking stocks?

352
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,600
Speaker 4: And what I always emphasize when I'm looking at a

353
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 4: company is to what degree is this company using technology

354
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:58,360
Speaker 4: to improve profitability and growth? Because without technology, a company

355
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,879
Speaker 4: is not going to do very well. They've got to

356
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,400
Speaker 4: move with the times and use technology to improve their operations.

357
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,040
Speaker 4: So it's a very important in reidds to what sector

358
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:12,120
Speaker 4: you're in. Of course, currently very attractive to go into

359
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 4: the semiconductor space, particularly the software companies that do the

360
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 4: software for semiconductors. But any company that's using technology in

361
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,399
Speaker 4: an effective way is going to be a winner.

362
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 2: Well, what's the most important financial metric you use to

363
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 2: value a company? I remember a few years back you

364
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 2: said you don't use PE for example, because that's not

365
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 2: very useful guide to measure a company's true value.

366
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, it changes, you know, P was very very popular

367
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,959
Speaker 4: and it's still very popular, and sometimes it's better and

368
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,359
Speaker 4: not to use the same metric that other people are using.

369
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 4: In our case, we like to use a return on

370
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 4: capital or return on assets. Number one, debt load, debt equity,

371
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 4: and of course earnings growth. Those would be three criteria

372
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:58,160
Speaker 4: that we look at very carefully.

373
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 2: Right, And I'm curious, is there one market you would

374
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 2: not touch? In other words, if one of your analysts

375
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 2: came to you and said, Mark, I have an idea.

376
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,400
Speaker 2: Here's a stock, but it's listed in XXX, great company,

377
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 2: but it's in a certain market. Is there a market

378
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:13,360
Speaker 2: that you would go, No, take that away and throw

379
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 2: it in the trash?

380
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,240
Speaker 4: Can well, I mean a country like Venezuela, you can forget.

381
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 4: That's a bad place to be. You know. The main

382
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 4: criteria it is not so much the political environment itself,

383
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,880
Speaker 4: but whether we can get money in and out of

384
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,400
Speaker 4: the country very important. So the first question we asked

385
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 4: is number one, can we get money out when we

386
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 4: put money in? How they've exchanged controls or some other

387
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 4: problem that will borrow us from getting the money out.

388
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 4: Number two, how about the currency? What kind of currency

389
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 4: risk is there and what kind of currency opportunity is there?

390
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 4: By the way, because a lot of times, like in

391
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 4: the case of Turkey, a Turkish lyric devalued by what

392
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 4: eighty plus percent against the dollar. That provided an opper

393
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,679
Speaker 4: tunity for many companies because some of the Turkish companies

394
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 4: were exporting in dollars and their costs were in Turkish lira,

395
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 4: so their profit gap was wider and wider as the

396
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 4: currency devalued. So that's the kind of thing we look at.

397
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,159
Speaker 3: You've done everything in your career, from winning awards to

398
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 3: writing books to be one of the most influential people

399
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 3: in finance. Why launch another fund right now?

400
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 4: Thanks for the compliments. I don't know whether I've been

401
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,639
Speaker 4: that influential, but anyway, why a new fund? Because I

402
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 4: like to try new things. I enjoy it. I don't

403
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 4: necessarily need the money, but I like the idea of

404
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 4: using the money I have to invest and also to

405
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 4: try something new, and that's really the reason. And of

406
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 4: course I enjoy travel, I enjoy meeting new companies, So

407
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 4: it's just something that I love to do.

408
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 2: Is it more a mental challenge for you than I mean,

409
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 2: delivering actual returns to investors is obviously important, but you

410
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,479
Speaker 2: know personal challenge when you look at investing and out

411
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 2: performing and all these things. I'm wondering if that's more

412
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 2: personal then what seems to be the case.

413
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 4: Well, you know, it's really interesting. I never really look

414
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 4: at the performance in that sense. Of course, the clients

415
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 4: and colleagues look at performance, but don't I look at

416
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 4: what kind of companies we have? Are they profitable, are

417
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 4: they growing? Are they run by good people? And all

418
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 4: the rest of it takes care of itself. So I

419
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 4: think you have to be very careful not to be

420
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 4: too focused on what's your performance this week or this

421
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 4: month or this year, but more focused on what the

422
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 4: assets you have and how good they are basically, right.

423
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 2: And do you think em fund managers these days, or

424
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 2: just fund managers in general, do you think they spend

425
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: enough time actually speaking with management. I mean, how important

426
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 2: is that to actually meet, like literally meet the company's employees.

427
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 4: It's very, very critical, very important because at the end

428
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 4: of the day, companies are people. They're not things that people,

429
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 4: and companies are run by people, and if those people

430
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 4: are ethical and are capable, then you want to put

431
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 4: your money with them. You know. It's basically like we're

432
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 4: in a partnership. And by the way, That's the exciting

433
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 4: thing about going into equities and equity investing is because

434
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 4: you are forming partnerships with the companies in which you're investing,

435
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 4: So they're making money for you. So you've got to

436
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 4: understand them and understand what their problems are and where

437
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 4: the opportunities are through their eyes.

438
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 3: So you mentioned people as being one of the most

439
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 3: important factors. You've, of course had a very successful career.

440
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 3: What is one of the best career advice you would

441
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 3: give someone.

442
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,199
Speaker 4: I think the most important thing in this field and

443
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 4: investing is to be curious and humble. In other words,

444
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 4: don't think that you know everything, because you never do.

445
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 4: There's always something to learn. One of the reasons why

446
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 4: I like this business is because I've always been a

447
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 4: perpetual student. In fact, I almost never left the university.

448
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 4: I love to be learning in the diversity. So I

449
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 4: think that's important. If you want to be in this business,

450
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 4: you've got to be curious, humble, and willing to learn

451
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 4: and change your mind. You know, things are changing every day.

452
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 4: You've got to be willing to adjust to a changing situation.

453
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of humility, what's your biggest investment regret? What's

454
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 2: the one Mark, what's the one that got away from

455
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 2: mister Mobius.

456
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 4: Well, it was in Brazil. We were invested in a

457
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 4: department store and two times a year we'd go back

458
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 4: and talk to the financial director. Everything seemed to be great.

459
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 4: Then suddenly the company was bankrupt and we couldn't understand why.

460
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 4: And the mistake there by the way, was that we

461
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 4: didn't meet the owners, the people who were really controlling

462
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 4: the company, and understand their background and their problems, and

463
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 4: so that was a big disaster.

464
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: That's the thing too, I feel in just as a

465
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 2: side point, right, so there's this bifurcation between the US

466
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 2: and China, So I understand geopolitically, that's a rivalry that

467
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 2: will continue. What's happened, is Mark chime in. There seems

468
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,439
Speaker 2: to be a gap that's formed between the communities of

469
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: both sides. So American investors who would have otherwise been

470
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 2: happy to go to China meet the companies, send their kids,

471
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 2: study language, and vice versa. That's not started to recede

472
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 2: as well. And are you optimistic that over time, while

473
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 2: the rivalry continues, that things normalize. Relations normalize is simply

474
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 2: on a people to people basis.

475
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 4: Well, I think they will normalize. They already If you

476
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 4: look at very closely and talk to Chinese people who

477
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 4: travel around the world, you know that so many of

478
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 4: them have their children in the US studying or visit

479
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 4: the US, often have property in the US. I'm talking

480
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 4: about the post and wealthy people, but even on the

481
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 4: ground in China there's an open mind. It's one of

482
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 4: the thing wonderful about the Chinese people is that they've

483
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 4: got a global view. They travel around the world, they

484
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 4: invest around the world, they ship products around the world.

485
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 4: So I think it will be very difficult to close

486
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 4: the door between the US and China. It's just I

487
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 4: don't see that happening.

488
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: Sorry, Mark, forgot to ask you as well, that you're

489
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 2: launching in your fund, do you have a target in mind?

490
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 2: How much money do you want to raise? How big

491
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 2: you need the fund to get?

492
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 4: Well, the most that we could do in this strategy

493
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 4: would be about a billion dollars, but frankly, I prefer

494
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 4: to have it maybe at five hundred million around that range.

495
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 4: Why is that simply because if you get too big,

496
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 4: then it becomes more difficult to get liquid. The kind

497
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 4: of liquid stocks and the limited number of stocks you

498
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 4: have in the portfolio. So we plan to have anywhere

499
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 4: between eight to twenty socks, no more than that in

500
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 4: the portfolio.

501
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 2: Wow, okay, that's not a lot of stocks to begin with.

502
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: Do you have a try do you have a targeted

503
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 2: mind as far as performance or returns? I know that's

504
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 2: a difficult question, but what would be ideal and achievable?

505
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 4: Well, the ideal is to do better than what you

506
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 4: would do by putting your money in the bank, putting

507
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 4: yourself your money into treasury bonds. So we're talking about

508
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 4: ten percent annually or more in that range because you

509
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 4: can't expect to get fifty percent, twenty percent. Yes, one

510
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 4: year you might get that, but it means taking a

511
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 4: lot of risk, and that's one thing we don't want

512
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 4: to do. So anywhere above ten percent is really where

513
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 4: we want to be.

514
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 3: If we look at emerging market funds, one of the

515
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 3: questions we get asked a lot is why do I

516
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 3: need to invest in an active emerging fund when I

517
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 3: can access a ETF for seventy basis points? So, for instance,

518
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 3: the I Shares MSCI Emerging Market only charges seventy basis points?

519
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 3: What are your thoughts on that?

520
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 4: A very good point because That's one of the things

521
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 4: that active managers have challenges about is the fee structure

522
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 4: compared to ETFs case, we're going to give clients the

523
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 4: opportunity to have zero fee, in other words, no fee

524
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 4: and only a carry. In other words, we take a

525
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 4: percent of the profits we make above a certain amount.

526
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 4: So that's I think a much better way to run

527
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 4: things because then you are really in partnership with your investors.

528
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 2: Okay, Mark, one final question for you, nothing to do

529
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: with market. I know you pretty much live on an airplane.

530
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: You live in a jet. I see you sometimes in Singapore,

531
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: I see you're in India. Your social media team, by

532
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 2: the way, do a very good job because I see

533
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 2: you enjoying Japan. For example. One day you're in Vietnam,

534
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 2: the next day you're in Brazil. Give us your top

535
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 2: three favorite places to live. I know you have residences

536
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: all over the world, let's put it that way. So

537
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: what are your top three favorite spots.

538
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 4: Well, I'm now in Dubai, so that's one. Singapore would

539
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 4: be the other one in Hong Kong. Really, those three

540
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 4: are the best, I would.

541
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 2: Say, Okay, and any go to meal, like if I

542
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 2: were to visit Dubai. What is something I have to

543
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: try in Hong Kong? What is your go to meal

544
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: in single for What would that be.

545
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 4: Here in Dubai. You have so many choices, but perhaps

546
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 4: some of the Lebanese food here is very very good

547
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 4: because that have terrific salads, They have terrific barbecues, that

548
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 4: sort of thing. So Lebanese food here in Dubai would

549
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 4: be good, but you've got everything here. In Singapore, of

550
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 4: course it would be Singapore noodles, and in Hong Kong

551
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 4: it would be canted these food you know, incredible surfried

552
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 4: vegetables and that sort of thing. I really enjoy it.

553
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 3: Mark, You'll have to let us know next time you

554
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 3: come to Hong Kong, we'll take you up for some

555
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 3: dim sum or some Hong Kong local.

556
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 4: Food and I look forward to that.

557
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us today. You've provided

558
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 3: us a lot of insights from career to investments to markets.

559
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your time and for making

560
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 3: effort all the way from Dubai.

561
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 4: Well, thank you. It's a pleasure speaking with you.

562
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: See you in Hong Kong, and so our audience, thank

563
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: you for joining us today, and thank you for listening

564
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: to the Tiger Money, your Bloomberg podcast about investing funds

565
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: and financial markets in the region and beyond. If you

566
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: like what you hear, please do not forget to subscribe,

567
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: to like and to share Until next time. You can

568
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 2: find us on the Bloomberg inside a terminal, on LinkedIn,

569
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: and across other platforms as well. We look forward by

570
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 2: the way to hearing from you. This podcast was produced

571
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 2: by Clarenchant