1 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Invention. My name is Robert lamp and 2 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: I'm Joe McCormick. And Robert, I got a question for you. 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: Have you ever been to like a festival or big 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: public event where the organizers did not get enough porta potties? 5 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: Probably so, probably so. Um, it's I mean, it's it's 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: a weird it's a weird equation you have to work out, right, 7 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: because you need to have the approximate number of porta 8 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: potties for a given event. And at the same time, 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: like I've definitely I've been to events where people care 10 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: more for the porta potties, Like there's more of a 11 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: communal effort to like, let's let's look after these porta potties. 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: Let's even go in there and clean the porta potties 13 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: right to ensure that things don't get too vile too fast. 14 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: Like if there's if it's a multi day event, people 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: might be more respectful of the fact that people will 16 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: need to continue to use these over a period of 17 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: time than if it's just like a it's you know, 18 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: this is going on for a few hours, let's just 19 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: go total war on these facilities. Uh. I've been to 20 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: a one time went to a beer tasting festival in 21 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: North Carolina where they did not get nearly enough porta potties, 22 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: and I remember feeling like, this is the closest thing 23 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: I've ever felt to like a Mad Max type scenario 24 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: in real life. People were losing their minds, Like when 25 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: when you don't have a place you've been drinking beer 26 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: and then you don't have a place where you can 27 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: legally and uh in uh in a in a polite way, 28 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: go to the bathroom, things start to get dire really fast. Yeah, 29 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: and I'm guessing there's probably a lot of indiscriminate aiming 30 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: from male urinators at this these particular events. Yeah, there 31 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: was also a you could tell just like this all 32 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: over the place, frantic search like ants foraging about looking 33 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: for other places they could go apart from really far 34 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: too few porta potties that were swarmed by people waiting. 35 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: But you start doing some very odd math if you're 36 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: in a situation like that, or even if you're not, 37 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: even if it's not that bad you're just waiting in 38 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: line to use a porta potty at least I find 39 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: I do. And one of the questions that I think 40 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: you inevitably start pondering is how much exactly do people 41 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: poop in a lifetime? Like how much do I poop 42 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: in a year? How much do does does my whole 43 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: household poop in? You know, in twenty years? Yeah, though 44 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,399 Speaker 1: these are not necessarily factors that are going to help 45 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: you out for you know, weekend music festival. No, no, 46 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 1: but I mean you have to imagine that there's some 47 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: kind of rough math along those lines going in. I 48 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: guess it's less for the festival. It's probably less thinking 49 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: about the total mass of poop and more about like, 50 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: I don't know how many people and how often they'll 51 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: need to go, because it's not like the things are 52 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: going to be filled up and overflowing at least hopefully not. 53 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: But yeah, that is the thing that you can start 54 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: wondering about, and it's a weird question once you actually 55 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: get the answer. I I found an article that addresses this. 56 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: It was a article on Live Science by Mindy Weisberger 57 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: addressing exactly this question full on with an interview with 58 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: a like health professional who had the dirt. So it's 59 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: impossible to answer this question exactly how much you poop 60 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: in a lifetime, because of course everybody's different, there's different 61 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: average fecal mass production, there's different lifespan and all that. 62 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: But it's actually fairly easy to get some average figures. 63 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: So the article sites Kim Barrett, a professor of medicine 64 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: at you See San Diego, and Barrett says, on average, 65 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 1: men and women have roughly one bowel movement per day. 66 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: Though if you have more than that or less than that, 67 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: don't panic. There's a normal range that's more and less. 68 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: It's okay. But the daily average amount of feces produced 69 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: by mass by a person an adult is usually about 70 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: fourteen to seventeen ounces or about four hundred to five 71 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: hundred grams. And from there, Weisberger does some simple math. 72 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: Quote starting with an average daily amount of about fourteen 73 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: ounces or four hundred grams, the total poop production in 74 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: a week's time would be about six pounds or two 75 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: point eight kill grams. In a year, a single person 76 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: would yield about three hundred and twenty pounds or a 77 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: hundreds of poop, just a little more than an adult panda. Ways, 78 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: al right, so when when one here's the sort of 79 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: drill sergeant cliche of like I've I've craped bigger than you. 80 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: That's probably true. If you're looking at a like a 81 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: year's worth of defecation, Well, that starts to call to 82 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: mind this thing that it got me thinking about. It 83 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,799 Speaker 1: makes it got me thinking about how as people get older, 84 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: often their bodies shrink. Right, you know, after adulthood your 85 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: body can actually physically shrink. You don't continue getting bigger 86 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: and bigger as life goes on. And yet there's this 87 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: invisible phantom of biomass following every person around throughout the years, 88 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 1: and no matter what, it's always getting larger and larger 89 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: the older you get. It is the phantom mountain of 90 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: combined mass of all the feces you've ever produced. Like 91 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: like a big poop golem following you around, you have 92 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: an invisible phantom poop golem that follows you everywhere and 93 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: only gets bigger with age. So so this means that, 94 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 1: like if you live to the age of seventy six, 95 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: Weisberger does the math, on average, you'll produce like twenty 96 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: four thousand, three hundred and twenty pounds or eleven thousand 97 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: and thirty kilograms of poop in your lifetime. If you 98 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: live to eighty one, it's more like, it's close to 99 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: twenty six thousand pounds, are close to twelve thousand kilograms. Quote, 100 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: So a lifetime of a woman's poop, because of the 101 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: average female lifespan is about eighty one years in the 102 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: United States. Uh, the average lifetime of a woman's poop 103 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: weighs as much as three adult male hippos. But if 104 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 1: you follow the same averages we've mentioned a minute ago, 105 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: think about those people who lived like a hundred and twenty, 106 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: you know, the super supercentenarians. Uh. One of these people 107 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: who lives to like a hundred and twenty has created, 108 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: by the end of their life a phantom poop mountain 109 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: or one of these poop golems of thirty eight thousand, 110 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: four hundred pounds or about seventeen thousand, four hundred and 111 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: twenty kilograms. I was trying to find an object to 112 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: compare this to. It's close to the weight of a 113 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: number of lighter combat vehicles like the M twenty four 114 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: Chafe light tank first used by the Americans in World 115 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: War Two. Just imagine this. If you live to a 116 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty, over the course of your life, you can, 117 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: on average poop a tank. All right. Well, Uh, let's 118 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: think about these poop golems. Um, obviously they cannot live 119 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: with us. They might live elsewhere. And that's why that's 120 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: where we get to the subject of today's episode and 121 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: the episode to follow this, because this is gonna be 122 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: a two parter and we think you'll love this one, 123 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: but episode number two is going to be real doozy. Yes. 124 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's the subject of our episodes. It 125 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: brings us to the technology of the toilet and ultimately 126 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: the concept of the flush toilet. Um. So, I think 127 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: in today's episode we're gonna be focusing primarily on sort 128 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: of the history of toilet technology, what we what we 129 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: were dealing with, like the problems faced by disposal of 130 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: human waste and and toilets before the flush toilet was invented, right, 131 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: And then in the next episode we'll meet the power 132 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: of the flush. But so, I think one of the 133 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: things to think about is that the problem of what 134 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: to do with human waste only really becomes a huge 135 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: issue once you have sedentary lifestyles and civilization, Like once 136 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: you get a lot of people living in roughly the 137 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: same place and not constantly moving right absolutely, Uh, you know, 138 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: I was looking back at one of my favorite books 139 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: on hygiene clean a History of Personal Hygiene Impurity by 140 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: Virginia Smith, and she points out that making sure that 141 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: your poop is somewhere other than your immediate living environment 142 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: has always been just a universal human behavior. It's just 143 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: part of of our our species and certainly see this 144 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: in any number of species as well. Um, I mean, 145 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: you see like dogs would rather go poop somewhere far 146 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: away from where they live, you know, they don't want 147 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: to poop in their den right, and they're they're even 148 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about coprophagia. There even like some 149 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: ideas and science about like when a dog ends up 150 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: pooping in its house this may come from like an 151 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: instinct to the fact that sometimes dogs will then eat it, 152 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: which seems gross to us, is actually something to like 153 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: prevent possible parasite eggs from hatching in it, because there 154 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: can be a health risk from poop staying around in 155 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: your living areas. Yeah, and if you want to hear 156 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: more about this stuff, Toble your mind has an entire 157 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: episode about animals eating poop. That's right. We're not going 158 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: to be focusing on eating poop today, except in the 159 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: sense the toilet eats poop if you will, Yeah, you can. 160 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: You can look at it that way for sure. So 161 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: you know, back when we were just nomadic creatures, we 162 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: didn't have to worry about this is so much. You 163 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: you poop where you had to poop, You did whatever 164 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: you needed to do to to hide the feces. But 165 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: then you're going to be moving on. You're not going 166 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: to stay in that immediate area, and you're probably there 167 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: aren't that many of you anyway, like any given group 168 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: of human nomads. Uh, it's not going to be the 169 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: size of of a of a village or the stuff 170 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: certainly the size of a large metropolitan area. Now, that 171 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: doesn't mean there are no dangers associated with defecation at 172 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: this stage. Even though you're not gonna have nearly as 173 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: much of a problem with what to do with the excrement, 174 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: you are still like when you when you go to 175 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 1: go to the bathroom, you're putting yourself in a vulnerable state. Absolutely. 176 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: I mean, poop itself opens up vulnerabilities. And you see 177 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: this in any number of animals that have various methods 178 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: for hiding their own poops. Sometimes it's essentially self hiding, 179 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: such as the way a goats poop will rolled away. Goats, 180 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: you know, often would favor hilly environment so that the 181 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: poop rolls away hides itself. Cats, on the other hand, 182 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: of course, or are known for their uh their their 183 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: skillet bearing their poop uh and thus hiding it from 184 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: from larger predators, because that's the fear, right, is that 185 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: your fecal matter is h is a signal. Uh, it's 186 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: an it's a it's an odor that is letting anyone 187 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: with a nose to smell it know where you are 188 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: and perhaps what degree of healthier in as well. Yeah, 189 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: if you are a prey animal, it shows you where 190 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: a predator can come get a meal. If you're a predator, 191 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: it can scare off prey animals. Uh. There's a paper 192 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: that looked into into some of this. It's a two 193 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: paper called the Control of Defecation in Humans and Evolutionary Advantage. 194 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: The question mark part of it there by Italian bowel 195 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 1: experts G. Bessatti and V. Villainacci. And they did something 196 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: interesting here. They ran a human fecal sample. Uh. They well, 197 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: they use both a modern and an ancient example through 198 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: complex gas uh chromatographic mass spec spectrometric analysis, and they 199 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: discovered that quote, human feces are rich in volatile compounds 200 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: likely to be identified by potential predators. And so they 201 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: went on to argue that the high predation risk for 202 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: ancient hominids by large carnivores suggests something rather amazing about 203 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: our pooping powers. Quote. We hypothesize that the voluntary control 204 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: defecation by our ancestors, together with greater brain volume or 205 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: rex stature, opposable thumbs, and other changes, may have contributed 206 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: to the successful march of hominids along the road of evolution. 207 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: In fact, by deciding when, how and where to defecate 208 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: may have several advantages in the complex prey predator relationship, 209 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: because spores are left in places undetectable by predators, or 210 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: there are no fecal tracks who sent maybe easily individualated 211 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: by prey. So they propose that choosing carefully where to 212 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: poop maybe an important part of what kind of animal 213 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: we are exactly so, But but even from an early 214 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 1: point um, as a Virginia Smith points out, Neolithic people's 215 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: they made use of midden piles, so you would have 216 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: an area in which you're living and if you need 217 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: to to poop you're either pooping beyond the area in 218 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: which you're living, or you're taking your poop and dumping 219 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: it out there in in the midden pile. And there 220 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: are you know, a few different systems that that one 221 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: can use here, one of course, is the dry sewer 222 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: system and UH and this is this will remind probably 223 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: a lot of people of a cat box, because they 224 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: a cat's litter box is a dry sewer system. UH. 225 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: That this would have been an indoor bucket of sand, 226 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,719 Speaker 1: ash or dirt that one would defecate into. And then 227 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: you could take that dirt, sand or ash outside, take 228 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: it to the mid and bile dump it out and 229 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: you're done. Or you could do it in the inverse. 230 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: I mean this is actually still a common method and 231 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: dry pit latrines around the world. Like if you've got 232 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: an outhouse and it's just a pit latrine. UM, a 233 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: common thing to do to help prevent smells and and 234 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: help keep things from getting too nasty is after you 235 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: do your business in the pit, you've got a bucket 236 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: of like old coal ash or something like that, or 237 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: lime or something in the uh in the outhouse, and 238 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: you scatter that on top and that helps contain smells 239 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: and so forth. Now, of course, the wet sewer system. 240 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: We're gonna get more into that in a bit, but that, 241 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: of course is ultimately what we have today in much 242 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,080 Speaker 1: of the world, where you certainly a flush toy it 243 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: as an example of this, right, and that simply derives 244 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: from sort of the the ingenious mechanical action of water flow. Right, 245 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: if you have to if you want to, say, poop 246 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: in a chamber pot or in a bucket or something 247 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: like that, you've got to physically remove it yourself from 248 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 1: where you are. If you are to poop into moving water, 249 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: then the moving water can remove your waste for you, 250 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: and you don't have to do that, right, Or I 251 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: guess one could poop into a container of water that 252 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: is not moving and then you remove that yourself. That's 253 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: also a possibility, I guess it is. Now the other 254 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: there are all kinds of things you can poop into, 255 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: and I imagine people have tried all of them at 256 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: one point or another. Now, beyond this dry wet distinction, 257 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: there's another important one that Smith points out, and she 258 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: says that toilet culture divides sharply into wiper and washer culture. Yeah, 259 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: and this is of course is just how one cleans 260 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 1: one's bum. Toilet deification. Yeah, like toilet paper versus like 261 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: b day or wet wipes or something like that. Yeah. Now, 262 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: most ancient culture, she points out that they were wipers, 263 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: so they would have used certainly paper if it was available. 264 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: Of course, for the longest paper was Um, it was 265 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: a rarity. So you're gonna probably depend on things like grass, leaves, sticks, 266 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: corn cobs, mud balls, and of course stones I've commonly 267 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: seen sided. I'm trying to imagine this. I just see 268 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: it pop up in like articles about ancient toilets that 269 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: people would use bits of broken pottery to clean themselves. 270 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: That I see that sited. But I'm just trying to 271 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: picture it, and it will not picture it. But you 272 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: know it, it seems it seems a little little risky. 273 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: Well it it drives down just the ridiculousness I think 274 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: of any wiping culture, because I feel like ultimately washing 275 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: culture has the stronger argument. Um, and washing culture is, 276 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: of course, instead of using even paper, what have you 277 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: simply depended more or exclusively on running water or spraying 278 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: water or water poured from an apparatus. That the the 279 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: sort of lubricant power of water. It's taking the principle 280 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: of the flush toilet to your own skin, right. And 281 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: you know, this is the standard in many parts of 282 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: the world, you know, particularly say in Islamic and Hindu cultures. Um, 283 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: I mean you will even find this. Uh, if you've 284 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: ever traveled abroad, you may have encountered this. But I 285 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: have also I know people who like purchased a house 286 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: in the Atlanta area and they're like, I don't know why, 287 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: but there's a vegetable sprayer installed next to my toilet. Well, 288 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: that is it's a bid day sprayer. That's the that's 289 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: the simply a means of of washing one's bum after 290 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: one has defecated, and it's a rather elegant solution. I would, 291 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: in my opinion, hard to argue there. I mean, yeah, 292 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: water gets things cleaner than than without water. I mean 293 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: it's not a perfect analogy, but imagine if I gave 294 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: you the option of would you rather be able to 295 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: take showers or just wipe yourself down with some paper 296 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: towels to clean your body? Absolutely, I think most of 297 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: us would probably choose the running water if it is 298 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: an an option. Uh. That being said, for many of 299 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: these cultures, running water is not an option. You know that, 300 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: then that's one of the main reasons that you're seeing 301 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: the wiping method as the primary method in these in 302 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: among ancient peoples. Now, for the most part, this this worked, right, 303 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: they were able to sort of roll with very simple 304 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: um sewage systems. Just simply get up and move on 305 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: because you're nomadic, or if you're living in a small area, 306 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: just keep it on the outside of your your living environment. 307 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: But the thing about humans is that we inevitably did 308 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: a number of things. We overcame all of our predators. 309 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: We we conquered the natural world and innovented to agriculture, 310 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: and then we started more move and then we started 311 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: building cities. We started building just increasingly large, cramped complex 312 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: um just accretions of human population, which of course is 313 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: one of the reasons we have have so many wonderful 314 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: things in our culture. But also it created a lot 315 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: of problems. Yeah, of course the city comes with many 316 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: wonders for good and ill, and it just I mean, obviously, 317 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: how to deal with human waste is a major one 318 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: of the ills, right, is one of the biggest problems 319 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 1: that you immediately face as soon as you decide to 320 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: create crowded, sedentary civilization. Cramming a bunch of people close 321 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: together and having them all live there and not leave 322 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: and what to do with human waste has long been 323 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: I think one of the single most important and consequential 324 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: problems in the design of human civilizations. Like think about okay, 325 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: if we go with those numbers earlier, like the you know, 326 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: fourteen ounces or whatever average a day, a household of 327 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: five people is producing on average like thirty pounds of 328 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: feces a week. An apartment building of fifty people produces 329 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: like three hundred pounds a week. Obviously, people don't want 330 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: that stuff hanging around. So where does it go and 331 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,239 Speaker 1: how does it get there? If you okay, so if 332 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: you're in a city, you can't walk outside the outskirts 333 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: of the city every time you need to go to 334 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: the bathroom and go to like a midden pile outs 335 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: you know, where nobody is I mean will come back 336 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: to it. To a certain extent, you can, but that's 337 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: only going to scale for so long, right, Like residents 338 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: of New York City cannot go to New Jersey to poop. 339 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: It's just you can't leave. If you have to leave 340 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: Manhattan to poop, then I mean, why you can't really 341 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: live in Manhattan. And even then that's not a good idea, 342 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: especially when you've got lots of people crowded around open defecation, 343 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: even if it's in in a place separated from you, 344 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 1: if it's often a midden pile or something like that, 345 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: that can lead to negative health outcomes. And we'll talk 346 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,959 Speaker 1: about that in a bit um. But so, yeah, so 347 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: you don't want all that stuff hanging around. And it's 348 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 1: not just because we don't esthetically like the idea of 349 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: feces piling up in the streets and alleys around our 350 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: homes because it's gross. It can actually be dangerous to 351 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: be exposed to untreated human waste, like untreated sewage. Getting 352 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: into water sources is especially dangerous. This can spread water 353 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 1: borne diseases like diarrhea, which you know is one of 354 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: the biggest killers of children around the world. And in 355 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: terms of infectious disease, and then like a cholera, I mean, 356 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: cholera has been just one of the most awful diseases 357 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: in human history and it's still kills tens of thousands 358 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: of people every single year, I mean even today. And 359 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: this generally is it's the fecal oral route of disease transmission. 360 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: It's kind of gross to talk about, is but it's 361 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: when sewage contaminates sources that end up going into people's mouths, 362 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: like drinking water, like soil that you know that ends 363 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 1: up in food um. And so for this reason, like 364 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: you know, I was reading this the thing by the 365 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: United Nations about the sort of their toilet initiatives trying 366 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: to get toilets and clean sewage sewage disposal systems to 367 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: people around the world, and and they say, bluntly, toilets 368 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: save lives. We should think about that because obviously, the 369 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: toilet is a nice thing to have. It's a good 370 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: convenience that makes life more esthetically pleasing, but it's also 371 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: like a life or death question, right, And and it 372 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: is so easy to take it for granted just because 373 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: it's this it's this thing that we're we're grateful for 374 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,239 Speaker 1: it when we have it and when we need it, 375 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: but we're also very well ing to forget it and 376 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: and and probably not plan our life around it too 377 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: much unless we absolutely have to. Yeah, And and one 378 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: way to definitely know that you shouldn't take it for 379 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: granted is to think about all the people who are 380 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: around the world who are deprived of these amenities. Like 381 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: according to the World Health Organization and UNI SEF, about 382 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: sixty percent of the global population either don't have a 383 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: toilet in their home or they don't have one that's 384 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: safely removes uh removes human ways. So they might have one, 385 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: but it doesn't maybe it just goes into a place 386 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: where it re enters drinking water areas and stuff. Among 387 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: the facts they said also is that like almost nine 388 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: hundred million people worldwide still regularly practice open defecation just 389 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: out you know, they have to go wherever, like in 390 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 1: a latrine field or or something like that. Yeah, it 391 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: just means somewhere that is not being captured or treated. 392 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: Like if you had if you had a properly dug 393 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: pit latrine, that would not count. But so you're going 394 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: somewhere in the open, like an open pit or something. 395 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: And then this was crazy. So they say globally about 396 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: eighty percent of wastewater generated by human civilization flows back 397 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: into the ecosystem without being treated. Without being treated. Yeah, um, 398 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: I mean it's just ramping around the world that this 399 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: obviously is going to have be having lots of negative 400 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: environmental consequences, but also negative health outcomes for humans. And 401 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: then another thing that we shouldn't take for granted is 402 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: like just the idea of you know, people don't like 403 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: the idea of fly is getting into their their stuff. Right, 404 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: So like if if people have an outhouse or a 405 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: pit latrine, they tend to want to keep a lid 406 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: on it. And one thing that does it helps keep 407 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 1: flies from getting down in there and buzzing around, and 408 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: of course that would be an annoyance when people are 409 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 1: trying to use these facilities. But that's also not just 410 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: an esthetic concern when when human feces are left uncovered 411 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: their breeding ground for for like the fly um Musca 412 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: sorbins known as the bizarre fly, which there's some evidence 413 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: or a disease vector for the bacterium Chlamydia trachomatics, which 414 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 1: can cause an infection in the eyes called tracoma, which 415 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: is a leading cause of blindness around the world. It's 416 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: it leads to hundreds of thousands of people being blind worldwide. 417 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: So again we have we have real life consequences, actual 418 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 1: hygiene public health consequences UH to lack of efficient UH 419 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: toiletry and sewage technology. I can't emphasize this enough. The toilet, 420 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 1: and I want to be very clear about this, and 421 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: not just the toilet in your house, but the toilet 422 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: paired with a waste disposal and sewer infrastructure. That's really important. Uh. 423 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: Those things together are not just esthetically nice, they save lives. 424 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: This is a life and death issue. Yeah. And but 425 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,959 Speaker 1: just to bring it back to a joke, uh, this 426 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: is exactly why the sign at Ikia and the model 427 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: apartment says, do not use this toilet. It's not cooked 428 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: up to anything. The toilet in and of itself will 429 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: do nothing exactly. And we'll revisit this theme throughout these episodes. 430 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: But so without a flush toy, I guess we should 431 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: sort of consider the history of toilet technology and in 432 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: in consider some broad categories. Right, So, without a flush 433 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: toilet connected to a safe disposal system like a sewer 434 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: or a well contained septic tank, what options do you 435 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: have for disposing of human waste? There are a few 436 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: main categories, and they pretty much all have some major disadvantages. 437 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: One of course, as we've discussed, is open defecation. That's 438 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: just anywhere in the environment. We know now that's that's dangerous, 439 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 1: That can lead to disease risks. Um. Another option is 440 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 1: pit latrines. This is like an outhouse, you go in 441 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: a hole, you know, and uh. These these are better 442 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: than open defecation because they can be covered up and 443 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: they can keep stuff separating contained. But also they're outside 444 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: your home. You lose the convenience and the privacy. If 445 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: they're inside your home, there can be problems with smells 446 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: and exposure to waste. So they might be better from 447 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: a health perspective than just open defecation or defecation and 448 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: to say water sources, but they're also that there are 449 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: problems with them that make people not prefer them generally. Uh. 450 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: And then you've got like chamber pots and buckets. Historically 451 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: these are very common. These were often emptied by pouring 452 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: the contents out of windows into city streets, which is 453 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: obviously unsanitary, even though it's more convenient like you do 454 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: your stuff indoors, the impact is sort of the same 455 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: as like open defecation on city streets and can lead 456 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 1: to unsanitary conditions and disease and all that. Ye like, 457 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: immediately right outside your your your building. So ideally what 458 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: you'd want given the limitations of all these things is 459 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: some kind of appliance that allows you to do your 460 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: thing inside the privacy and comfort of your own home, 461 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: and then removes the waste automatically to somewhere that it 462 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: can be safely stored or treated that doesn't allow unpleasant 463 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: sights and smells to bother you, and doesn't allow the 464 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: waste to pollute the surrounding environment or get into drinking 465 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: water and soil. Obviously, this is a recipe that a 466 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: that a flushed toilet could meet very nicely if it's 467 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: paired with the right kind of like sewer system. But 468 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: I think maybe we should take a quick break and 469 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: then come back and discuss some of the solutions that 470 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 1: ancient civilizations came up with for for toilets and seward designs. 471 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: All right, we're back. So we're talking about ancient complex 472 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: latrine systems. I was reading about this in a book 473 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: by Brian Fagan that I've mentioned on the show before, 474 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: the seventy Great Inventions of the Ancient World, and he 475 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: points to one of the earliest examples we have of 476 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: of latrine technology being that of a latrine drainage system 477 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: in the Neolithic period. Uh one example being uh Scara 478 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: bray on the Orkney Islands of Scotland from roughly thirty 479 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: one hundred to b C. And the site featured six houses, 480 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: each with a buried duct that drains from small toilet 481 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: rooms to a single duct that removed waste from the houses. 482 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: So it's it's simple, but basically in that you have 483 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 1: the roots of modern sewage technology. Yeah, and so we 484 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: see things kind of like this and other ancient civilizations 485 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: like for example, one of the great UH ancient civilizations 486 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: in terms of civic design and UH and technological advancement 487 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: in the way cities are put together is the Indis 488 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: River Valley civilization, like including sites like Mahinjo, Daro and 489 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: Harapa where they had buildings with these sort of toilet 490 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: holes that rested over an underground brick drainage pipe and 491 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: these sewer drains could be washed out with water to 492 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: carry the waste away to cess pits. Right, this would 493 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: have been about And another interesting bit about the Mahenjo 494 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: Darrow site is that there appeared to be channel junctions 495 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 1: in the sewage system so that you could it could 496 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: be easily be cleaned. You could go in there to 497 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: prevent blockage, so it would seem to be in an 498 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: advancement from from earlier designs. Yeah, and another advancement, of course, 499 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: comes if you have a good source of flowing water, 500 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: like the ancient Romans made use of their aqueduct supplied 501 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: water to power a sort of flush toilet. I think 502 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: it's not quite a flush toilet. I guess it depends 503 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: on how you define it. But it consisted of in 504 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: ancient Rome, basically a bench with multiple holes in it. 505 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: So this would have been a very communal affair. These 506 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: holes are just like right next to each other, so 507 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: you'd go and sit next to a whole bunch of 508 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: people and I guess just sit around talking while you 509 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: were pooping. And uh. These holes in the bench were 510 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: suspended over a drainage ditch with running water, and the 511 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: flowing water below the toilet bench would remove the waste 512 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: and it would also help limit smells. So this is great, 513 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 1: Like you don't you know, it doesn't stink in there 514 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: because stuff is getting well, it might stink a little bit, 515 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: but it's not as bad as it could be because 516 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: it's all getting washed away immediately by the running water. Yeah, 517 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: there's running water, there's there's their their their mosaics and frescoes. 518 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: There is there's probably live music at some of these. Yeah, 519 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 1: I didn't know that. Yeah, that was a detail I 520 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: was reading, and I believe it was Smith's book, um 521 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,719 Speaker 1: pointing out that, yeah, this would have been just kind 522 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: of a fun place to hang out and have a poop. Yeah, 523 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it does seem like it was a thing that. Uh, 524 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: it's it's hard to like with modern Western sensibilities about 525 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: like embarrassment, you know, when you when you have to 526 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: go to the bathroom. It's just hard to imagine sitting 527 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: around talking to people while you're all pooping on the 528 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: same bench. But when in Rome, you know, poop poop 529 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: on the bench. But of course this this had some 530 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: limitations also because it relied on a certain kind of infrastructure, right, 531 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: it relied on the constant running water supplied by the 532 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: aqueduct system, and it had to be done at the 533 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: end of the water supply system or else you would 534 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: of course foul the water sources downstream of you. So 535 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: this sort of had to you know, you wouldn't want 536 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: to put this toilet side at like the first place 537 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: the aqueduct water supplied water gets too in the city 538 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: right now. Now, certainly where we talk some more about 539 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: Roman toilets here, because just the Roman plumbing situation was fabulous, 540 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: it was really it was a wonderful creation. They were 541 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: really proud of it too. Oh yeah. But at the 542 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: same time, there's a problem with thinking too much about 543 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: ancient toilets in light of our you know, our modern concepts, 544 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: because you know, we're standing at the end of a 545 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: long journey in which innate uh, you know, sensibilities about 546 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: cleanliness are confused with concepts of purity, and they're augmenting, 547 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: augmented to varying but hopefully significant degrees by public health concerns. 548 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: So like, you know, for a fact that exposure to 549 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: human feces can actually be a public health risk. But 550 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: there's also like this weird kind of primal thing where 551 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: you think of feces as morally bad or something. Yeah, 552 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: And that's one of the major trends and in a 553 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: Smith's book about hygiene is that these two things just 554 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: become interwoven and it's hard to to to to take 555 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: them apart. But the ancient understandings of public health we're 556 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: very unlike our own. We've discussed before on stuff to 557 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: able your mind. How Roman civil engineer Attruvious advised against 558 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: building towns near marshes because of the fear of the miasma, right, 559 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: which which there's some truth to that, and also just 560 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: like he's coming upon truth, but at the same time, 561 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: there's no magical fog that's going to come out and 562 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: give you an illness. Well, he was right for the 563 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: wrong reason, right, Like, so the idea that you might 564 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: get malaria because there are bad smells and vapors coming 565 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: off of the marshes is wrong, but it might actually 566 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: be correct. So that you don't want to be too 567 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: close to the marshes because the standing water produces disease vectors. 568 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: The mosquitoes, they're the vector for the malaria. Now, he 569 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: also advised that latrine should be positioned so that odor 570 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: is directed away from public spaces. Sounds reasonable, But as 571 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: Brian Fagan um at All point out in the seventy 572 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: Great Inventions of the Ancient World, quote, such purely practical 573 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: measures need not refle like they generalized concern for public 574 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: health as we understand it, uh, you know, But for all, 575 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: for all the Roman feats of plumbing, you know, it 576 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: all says little about what they necessarily thought about hygiene. 577 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: For instance, Fagan points out that many private toilets in 578 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: Pompeii were positioned right next to the kitchen, right. Yeah. 579 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: It makes me think about Simpson's episode where they building 580 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: ad Flanders a new house and the toilet is just 581 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: in the middle of the kitchen because they're like, you 582 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: haven't tried lugging a toilet up a flight of stairs. 583 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: Another fact about how these Roman toilets don't necessarily like 584 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: completely interlocked with common ideas about hygiene. So you wonder, 585 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: what are the ancient Romans used for toilet paper? Right 586 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: like when when they were sitting around by the dozens 587 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: for social pooping, Yeah, where they wipers orhere they washers. 588 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: There's sort of in between. There were well, I guess 589 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: you call them washers because there was a water element, 590 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: So they apparently wiped themselves with a kind of wetted 591 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: sponge on a stick, which they So you'd be sitting 592 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: there on the toilet and then in front of you 593 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: there'd be a separate stream of fresh water washing in um, 594 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: and then everybody would sort of dip their sponges at 595 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: the end of their stick in this water to like 596 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: wet it and wash it off, and then they'd wipe 597 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: themselves with that and then dip it in there to 598 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: wash it off again, and everybody like you would, you know, 599 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: people would share these things obviously. I mean, imagine an 600 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: alternate version of our present world in which instead of 601 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: using toilet paper or any kind of sprayer or what 602 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: have you, instead it's single use disposable sponges on sticks. 603 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: You know, like we're very we're hygienic about it, but 604 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: we're just so extra wasteful about it. I came across 605 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: I think, what is a false factoid that I'm I 606 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: wonder if I should even repeat because I don't want 607 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: to spread it via the illusory truth effect, But I'll 608 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: say it anyway. Uh. There there are people out there 609 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: saying that the phrase getting the wrong end of the 610 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: stick comes from this Roman experience, but I did not 611 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: find good evidence that that is true. I do not 612 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: think that is the origin of that phrase in English. Yeah, 613 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: and really, what which at what end is the wrong end? 614 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: It kind of depends on what you're doing, right, Yeah, 615 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: I mean if they were like, if it's good enough 616 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: for your butt, why isn't it good enough for your hand? Um? 617 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna come back to the Romans. But 618 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: but real quick, I want to touch base again on 619 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: some of these these older settlements, um, because we don't 620 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: want to give the false impression that like from a 621 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: very early point, from say again onward, people were just 622 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: all on board with some sort of primitive sewage system, 623 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: because that's not the case, because there are plenty of 624 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: other advanced settlements in the ancient world. They just didn't 625 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: seem that concerned with the latrine technology. Cattle hook, I 626 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: believe I'm attempting to pronounce that correctly. Would this have 627 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: been abrout seven thousand b C in modern Turkey. So 628 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: they had mud brick houses for thousands of people. And 629 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: one of the interesting things about this settlement is that 630 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: most of these buildings were accessible by like sometimes like 631 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: apertures in the sides of the buildings, but often ceiling holes. 632 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: They had no proper streets. The rooftops were the streets. 633 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: Um so so so so that's fascinating. But but then 634 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: they also had they had cooking hearts, they had ovens, 635 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: they had storage rooms. Uh. And yet they seem to 636 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: have been just content with carrying all of their trash 637 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: and ratrine latrine waste out to dumping sites, out to 638 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: middens beyond the limits of their uh, their their town. Well, 639 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: I wonder if the fact that the streets were positioned 640 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: above the dwelling spaces actually would have discouraged them from 641 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: dumping all of their waste out on the streets as 642 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: often happened in other cities, because they would quickly and 643 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:39,280 Speaker 1: easily run into people's homes. Yeah, it could be another 644 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: big example classical Athens may do just open sewers. Fagan 645 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: adds that although the water supply was taken care of, 646 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: the fifth century BC drainage system consisted of a single 647 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: large duct in the marketplace, and everybody else just had 648 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: to make do. But let's get back to Rome, Okay, 649 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: So obviously a lot of time, in ergy and money 650 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: went into the sewage system, into the overall plumbing infrastructure. 651 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 1: We've mentioned the aqueducts already, but we haven't mentioned Rome's 652 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: great central sewer, the Cloaca maxima. Cloaca maxima, that's like 653 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,240 Speaker 1: a body part on a Turinosaurus reaxient, but cloaca means sewer, 654 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: so it's the So it's the maximum sewer, the great sewer. 655 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 1: Um I mean, and so the to clarify the cloaca 656 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: in the uh in the animal world, I think, i'm 657 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: I think it's basically like a single passage way that 658 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: serves the function of like a rectum and a urethra 659 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: and a birth canal and all that. It's all sort 660 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: of in one right and so, But but here we're 661 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: talking about a great central sewer, and accounts vary on 662 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: when this was built. There's there's a tradition that says 663 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: that it was built in the sixth century BC, but 664 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: Fagin stresses that it likely came later and may have 665 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: remained an open sewer until about second century BC. But 666 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: but it was a pretty impressive since the system, for instance, 667 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: our for in plenty the elder was absolutely bonker balls 668 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: for it. I want to read a quotation here. This 669 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: is from the Rackham translation that we've used before on 670 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: the show. You mean of the natural history. Yes, this 671 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: is from the natural history quote. But at that time 672 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: elderly men still admired the vast dimensions of the rampart, 673 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: the substructures of the capital, and furthermore, the city sewers, 674 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: the most noteworthy achievement of all. Seeing that hills were tunneled, 675 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: and Rome, as we mentioned a little earlier, became a 676 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: hanging city beneath which men traveled in boats during Marcus 677 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: Agrippa's term as Edile after his consulship. Through the city 678 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: there flows seven rivers meeting in one channel. These rushing 679 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: downwards like mountain torrents, are constrained to sweep away and 680 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: remove everything in their path, and when they are thrust 681 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 1: forward by an additional volume of rain water, they batter 682 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: the bottom and sides of the sewer. So yes, in 683 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,720 Speaker 1: case anyone missed it, there plenty is telling that Marcus 684 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: Agrippa took a sailing vessel through the sewers. That's how 685 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: amazing they were. That there's essentially a river uh that 686 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: runs through Rome and it is the fabulous sewer. So 687 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: this sort of toilet technology. You find this throughout the 688 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,399 Speaker 1: Roman Empire. Uh. And yet at the same time they 689 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: still had to post warnings against public defication. So I 690 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: want to touch on some of these, but I'm gonna 691 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 1: stress here that apparently in translating these, the word poop 692 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: is not always sufficient. So I am going to go ahead. 693 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: We're gonna go ahead and use the stronger S word 694 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: for excrement. But we're going to come up with the 695 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: delightful ways to bleep the profanity. This is a show 696 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: of family values, folks, right, But but it also has 697 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: a show about about history. And apparently these these bits 698 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: of often graffiti cannot be properly translated without using some 699 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: vulgar terminology. Let's vulgar, alright. So one this was a 700 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: graffiti on a wall in Pompeii that says, again translated 701 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 1: with comfort and good cheer, so long as you don't 702 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:11,959 Speaker 1: do it here. So it's a warning, please please don't 703 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: poop here. Don't poop here. There are places to poop, 704 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,800 Speaker 1: but not here. There's a kind of beautiful irony about 705 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: that being on a house at Pompeii. They want to 706 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: keep all nice and clean. Yeah. Uh, there's another one. 707 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,439 Speaker 1: This was on a wall of a Roman amphitheater. Uh 708 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: that is what is it? Cassatur cave mallum. I think 709 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 1: it would be hard season in Latin. I think it 710 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: would be cocatur cockatur cave mallum, which means roughly translated 711 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: as to beware the evil eye, which is which is 712 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: a delightful thing. I actually I actually saw a website 713 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: where someone had had taken this thing in Latin and 714 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: they framed it above their modern toilet in their apartment, 715 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: which is a nice, a nice, a nice twist. So 716 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 1: Christina Kilgrove actually wrote a wonderful article on Forbes about 717 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,879 Speaker 1: these inscriptions, titled uh, scatological graffiti was the ancient Roman 718 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,239 Speaker 1: version of Yelp and Twitter, And she points out that 719 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: you know, even with with latrines, pooping was still something 720 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: you were exposed to a lot. Again, they were very communal, 721 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: these Roman toilets. Now, she points out that these bitsical 722 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,000 Speaker 1: grew graffiti were generally not found in actual latrine zones. 723 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 1: They were found elsewhere in the city. And part of that, 724 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,919 Speaker 1: of course is warning against inappropriate defecation. Please go usual train, 725 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: don't do it here. But then she said, there are 726 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: other such inscriptions that were essentially Yelp reviews, like one 727 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 1: that is translated as we pete in the bed, I 728 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,439 Speaker 1: confess we have aired innkeeper. If you ask why there 729 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: was no chamber pot, that's a good excuse, except on 730 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: why in the bed? Why not somewhere else in the room? Well, 731 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:52,760 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean you could just use the corner. 732 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: I guess It's like it would be the most destructive 733 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: thing you could do, right, and since you can't, you can't. 734 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: Actually you leave a Yelp review. You can just say 735 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: I pet in this bed, but the reason is because 736 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 1: you didn't provide a latrine for me to use. So yes, 737 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: graffiti artists of Rome had some fun with with defecation 738 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: in general and with the use of latrines. Um, the 739 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: whole books have been written on Roman graffiti. It's it's 740 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: a wonderful topic. But still, at the same time, we 741 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: stressed that the latrines of ancient Rome, they do represent 742 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: a major contribution to public health. Uh, you know, even 743 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: if they didn't have the science down perfectly on everything, 744 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: and even if there were a few rogues who didn't 745 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: appreciate any of it. Okay, I think we need to 746 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 1: take one more break and then we will come back 747 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:47,439 Speaker 1: to finish up our discussion about toilet history. Alright, we're back. 748 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 1: Are we ready to get into some medieval toilet technology here? Joe, Yeah, 749 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,320 Speaker 1: we've talked about some pit latrines, We've talked about some 750 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,280 Speaker 1: uh some ancient sewer systems sort of with toilets suspended 751 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: over them. I wanted to talk about guard robes. So 752 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: guard robes are a common solution later in like castle 753 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: building periods in Europe. And there's a simple principle at 754 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: work here. Why not let gravity flush for you. Uh So, 755 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: a garden robe would generally be like a small room 756 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,720 Speaker 1: with holes that you could sit over, suspended up high, 757 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,400 Speaker 1: over a pit, or over an exposed area outdoors, so 758 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 1: there could be multiple ways you would do this. But 759 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: the waste would generally fall down into a pit where 760 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 1: it would be stored and then could be removed by 761 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: workers at some point, or it would fall into a 762 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: moat this was pretty common for castles, or it would 763 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: just fall down to the ground along the exterior wall 764 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,840 Speaker 1: of the castle or manor house. Uh And because of 765 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,760 Speaker 1: exposure to like cold winter winds, a sixteenth century poet 766 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 1: named John Harrington, who we will revisit in the next 767 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 1: episode called this quote sitting on the draft, So you 768 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,880 Speaker 1: can imagine it was like, you know, there's just a 769 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 1: hole that's exposed to outside, and I guess your your 770 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: stuff falls down along the castle wall, and and you've 771 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: got the winter winds biting at your butt. Ye, your 772 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: whole is exposed to the outside. This, yeah, exactly, So 773 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: of course, the waste would either end up in a 774 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 1: water source and that's not great, or it would pile 775 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: up below and have to be removed by workers. And 776 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: I'm not positive, but I think a guard robe type 777 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:22,280 Speaker 1: structure is the central uh architectural feature in a story 778 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 1: that I loved about a castle I've actually been to 779 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 1: in Slovenia. Uh. So, there's a castle called Prajamski Grod 780 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,440 Speaker 1: and Slovenia also known as Prajama Castle, and I've got 781 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: a picture of it here. It's it's so it's a 782 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: castle that was built in the thirteenth century in the 783 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,279 Speaker 1: mouth of a cave. Yeah, and Slovenia just generally has 784 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: awesome caves and like karst geological features. But here's somebody 785 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: decided to be super bad and build a castle right 786 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,720 Speaker 1: on a cliff at the entrance of a cave system. 787 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 1: I like the way they think. So, You've got this 788 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,680 Speaker 1: guy named erasm Luger or Erasmus of Lugue, who is 789 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: a so called robber baron. He's a bad dude who 790 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: owns a castle, though I guess most of the people 791 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: who own castles are bad. Yeah, it's kind of a 792 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: red flag. Yeah, Oh, and that's something we'll get to 793 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: again in a minute. Uh. So. Uh, he's a he's 794 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,280 Speaker 1: a so called robber baron, and he and his family 795 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: Arizon Luker. Uh. They take over the Prajama Castle by 796 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,399 Speaker 1: the end of the fifth fifteenth century. And at one 797 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: point Luger gets in trouble because he murders a relative 798 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: of the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick the third, and the 799 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 1: Holy Roman Empire comes to collect and they end up 800 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,360 Speaker 1: laying siege to his castle here at the Cave Mouth. 801 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,440 Speaker 1: But the siege went on and on because the castle 802 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 1: had a secret weapon for siege survival. It had a 803 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: tunnel leading into the cave system, which had other openings 804 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,360 Speaker 1: to the countryside, so it allowed occupants occupants of the 805 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 1: castle to secretly sneak out and get supplies while they 806 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: were under siege. And this of course means a siege 807 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,279 Speaker 1: can go on for a really long time for all 808 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,440 Speaker 1: I know. You know, it could go on forever. While 809 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 1: the army is waiting outside to starve you out, you're 810 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: sneaking off to the snack bar. So apparently somebody within 811 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,640 Speaker 1: the castle got sick of this after about a year 812 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: or so, and the insider decided to betray Luger, the 813 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,759 Speaker 1: master of the castle, and I guess they must have 814 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: coordinated a plan with the army outside. But however they 815 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 1: arrived at this plan. What happened is they waited until 816 00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 1: Luger himself had to go up to the guard robe. 817 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,160 Speaker 1: It was this little room overhanging the outside wall of 818 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,239 Speaker 1: the castle, and then they raised a red flag to 819 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: let the army outside know. And the army blasted the 820 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,920 Speaker 1: garter robe with a cannon and killed Luger in one shot. 821 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 1: And that should have been adapted to a Game of 822 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,759 Speaker 1: Throne scene. Maybe it still will be. That's right, The 823 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 1: Game of Thrones did have a death on the toilet scene. 824 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,760 Speaker 1: They also had the moon door, which was not a toilet, 825 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,720 Speaker 1: but was. It was very much like what we're describing here. Yeah, 826 00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 1: a hole that opens up onto the the expanse below 827 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: the castle along the castle walls. Now, one more note 828 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,440 Speaker 1: about medieval toilets. Generally there were two ways do you 829 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,719 Speaker 1: do your business in the medieval bedroom. There was a 830 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,880 Speaker 1: jerry which you simply pushed under the bad so this 831 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 1: would be just like a standard chamber pot. But then 832 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: there was also the closed stool, which is like a 833 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,320 Speaker 1: toilet box, and you'll you'll find some examples in the 834 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 1: cushions where it's like satin cushion. It's this fancy little box. 835 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:28,959 Speaker 1: It's like imagine the fanciest um, you know, enclosure for 836 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,839 Speaker 1: a litter box you can purchase, and it's essentially that 837 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,799 Speaker 1: for human defecation, you know. I find so you look 838 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,640 Speaker 1: at a lot of this like medieval royal toilet technology, 839 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,400 Speaker 1: you know, the stuff that kings and queens of Europe 840 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,280 Speaker 1: would poop in, and in these times there's an awful 841 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 1: lot of like cloth in the elements involved. It just 842 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,960 Speaker 1: seems like a bad idea, Like you don't want, you know, 843 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 1: when you see people who have like toilet like toilet 844 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 1: seat covers that are like fuzzy cloth stuff, and I'm 845 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,840 Speaker 1: always just like, what are you doing? Toilet should be 846 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,000 Speaker 1: all like hard surfaces that are easy to clean off, 847 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,920 Speaker 1: you know, Oh my god, it just seems wrong to 848 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,640 Speaker 1: like be putting cushions and fabric and all that are 849 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,120 Speaker 1: all over your toilet. That just seems like a recipe 850 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:17,760 Speaker 1: for disgustingness. Oh yeah. An example of this, my family 851 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,680 Speaker 1: wants rented a home that had a white carpet in 852 00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,560 Speaker 1: the bathroom all the way up to the toilet is ridiculous. 853 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:30,360 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's horrible. Like brown shag carpet. Fine, 854 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,080 Speaker 1: but you don't. White carpet is just a terrible idea. 855 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: I mean, why don't you If you're gonna do that, 856 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:40,080 Speaker 1: why not just have like cloth dinner plates and stuff 857 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: hard non porous surfaces people this, Yeah, you gotta be 858 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,319 Speaker 1: able to clean it all. Right, So we're gonna go 859 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,200 Speaker 1: and close out this episode right here, but we will 860 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,040 Speaker 1: be back because the next episode we're going to really 861 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,360 Speaker 1: get into what you probably think of as the modern toilet. 862 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk more about the modern flush toilet, where 863 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,520 Speaker 1: it came from, uh, and what it's it's impact has been. 864 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,520 Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you want to check out more 865 00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,200 Speaker 1: episodes of Invention, head on over to invention pod dot com. 866 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,520 Speaker 1: That's our website. That's where we'll find all the episodes, 867 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,400 Speaker 1: links out to social media accounts, you name it. And 868 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,520 Speaker 1: I should really stress if you want to support the show, 869 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 1: the best thing you can do is make sure you've subscribed, 870 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,200 Speaker 1: and then if you have the ability to rate and 871 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,800 Speaker 1: review the show, uh wherever you get it, uh, please 872 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,360 Speaker 1: do so because that that helps us out, helps the algorithm, 873 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,840 Speaker 1: and helps us continue to bring you week after week 874 00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:36,719 Speaker 1: uh new, amazing, mundane and world changing inventions. That's right, so, 875 00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 1: as always, thanks so much to our excellent audio producer, TORR. Harrison. 876 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,319 Speaker 1: And if you would like to get in touch with 877 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,719 Speaker 1: us with feedback about this episode or any other, to 878 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 1: suggest a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 879 00:47:50,120 --> 00:48:00,000 Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at invention pod dot com. 880 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,799 Speaker 1: The reps you can sun with your day