WEBVTT - Negotiate What You Deserve (How-To Monday) 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.080 Hey va, fam, we are all. We are featuring our 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:07.200 favorite money and career expert, Lynette Califani Cox. Y'all might 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:09.600 know her as the money Coach, but we know her 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:14.560 as our financial fairy god mama. So Lynette went from 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.600 having a career as a journalist to an entrepreneur who 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:23.000 commands what five figure speaking fees. She's authored maybe at 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:26.160 this point, more than a dozen books, as well as 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:30.440 crafting financial courses for consumers and businesses. Y'all can find 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:34.200 Lynette at Askthemoneycoach dot com. And on today's show, she's 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:36.640 going to share her expert advice on how to negotiate 0:00:36.680 --> 0:01:02.160 on the job. Hope you guys enjoy. 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:59.160 Lynette Calfoni Cox. She was our very first interview and 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.520 she's bad. So we're super excited because let's kind of 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.600 talk about all things negotiating. We're also gonna squeeze some 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:09.120 college tips and info because Lynnette got her daughter a 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:12.040 help to her daughter get not only a free ride, 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.480 but tons of money for college. So if you want 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:16.759 to be like that, you know, get on board. Take 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:19.800 a list of Jamal. You're listening, all right, So Jamal 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:22.160 is who we call our We have a few handful 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:23.800 of mail listeners and that's what we saw them. 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:28.880 Yeah, they tune out for the girls stuff but back in. 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.640 But yeah, no, I think that this topic And thank 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.720 you Lynette for joining us again. You are a fave. 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:37.280 So this is a topic I'll never get tired of 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:40.720 talking about. And I always like to get your perspective, 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:42.880 like each person we talk to their perspective on this, 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:45.720 because we still get a lot of questions about, you know, 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.760 what are some strategies, How should I be asking for 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.080 more at work? What do I do if I feel 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:53.480 stuck at work and I don't feel like I'm getting 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.280 paid enough and the you know, opportunities for. 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.160 Growth just aren't there. 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:01.040 And I wonder if you maybe it could start off 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.520 by talking a little bit about sometimes early in your career, 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:09.560 even recently, when you feel like you either have missed 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:13.160 an opportunity to negotiate or took advantage of one, and 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:14.120 like what you learn from that. 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.440 Sure, well, over the course of my career, I've been 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:23.880 super lucky in the sense that I don't even know 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:29.520 how or like why I chose to like negotiate so 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:33.520 early in my career, because honestly, I don't ever remember 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:38.800 my mom telling me. I don't remember any female mentors 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:43.880 or older women telling me to negotiate. I have five sisters, 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.840 three of them are older than I am, but honestly, 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:50.680 I don't remember them telling me to negotiate early in 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:51.200 my career. 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:54.720 I just kind of took it upon myself to do it. 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.800 And I am so enormously grateful that I did, because 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:04.440 it really has been kind of one of those benchmark 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:12.080 areas in terms of my own financial life, not just 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.919 as an employee, but even now as an entrepreneur. And 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:20.320 so there have been times when I have not negotiated, 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:24.239 and it's usually when I get an offer that's like excellent, 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:26.640 sort of write out the box, and I'm like, I 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:28.119 don't be greedy girl. 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:32.440 You know, but how do you know when it's good enough? Someone? Yeah, 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.120 one of my younger cousins had asked me that, She's like, 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.640 I don't know. I'm really excited, but I don't know 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:40.240 if it should I just negotiate because everyone tells me to, 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:42.800 or how do I know if it's good enough? 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:47.960 See, that's a great question, and you really should know 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:50.320 quote unquote what's good enough for you. So I'll give 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:52.000 you a case in points and you asked about my 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.960 early professional career in my history. 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:57.960 Then the reason I. 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:00.640 Say you should know is you should know, like what 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.440 amount of money would make you happy, and what amount 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:08.480 of money is commensurate with the skills and the background 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:09.960 and the value. 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:11.280 That you're going to bring to an organization. 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.240 So, for example, when I got out of grad school 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:19.800 at USC in Los Angeles, it was nineteen ninety three, 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.680 and I had gotten married very young, and then. 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:25.720 I moved to Philadelphia. 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:28.400 My ex was in graduate school, and so I was 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.160 working not one, but two jobs. 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:33.679 So I worked at the Philadelphia. 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.600 Inquirer as a correspondent by day, and I worked at 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.800 Fox at ten o'clock news by night. And I was 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:45.359 a writer and an assistant producer at Fox. So for 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.360 both of my jobs, literally I was, you know, working 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.679 myself to the bone. I would be at the agey 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.280 as we called it for you know, from about nine 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.760 o'clock in the morning to about five thirty almost six, 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.320 and then I would race like a mad woman cross 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:02.240 the bridge and come back in because I worked in 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:06.880 South Jersey in the Cherry hillbureau for the Enquirer, and 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.640 then I would rush to come back over to downtown 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.240 Philly area, and then I would go to my job 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:14.719 at the ten o'clock News, and I would get there 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.040 about six thirty ish and be there until eleven till 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:24.120 the show ended. Long story short, when I changed and 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.960 left those two jobs to go work for Dow Jones. 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:31.360 Dow Jones, you know, the parent company at Wall Street Journal. 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:36.640 The job offer that I got from Dow Jones was 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.440 more than I was making for both of those previous 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:44.080 two jobs put together, but I still negotiated for more. 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.400 So I knew at the time that. 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:51.520 Not only was I going to have one heck of 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:56.720 a commute, because I was commuting on Amtrak from Philadelphia 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:58.799 from thirtieth Street Penn Station to New. 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:00.320 York Now to go to. 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.760 The World Financial Center, which is where the headquarters for 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:06.839 Dow Jones was. I knew that was going to be 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.760 two hours, you know, door to door commute each way. 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:11.520 I knew I was going to have like a four 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.680 hundred or something dollars round trip Amtrak ticket and everything. 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.520 But I also knew, and again I don't even know 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.560 how I knew this, but I knew that it was 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:26.559 incumbent upon me to show my prospective employer what great 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:28.159 things I was going to do for Dow Jones and 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:30.160 how I was going to deliver value for them, and 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.320 why I was worth X amount. And at the time 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.120 it might have been like, you know, forty eight thousand 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:38.280 or fifty thousand. I can't remember exactly what it was, 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.479 to be honest with you, but it was more for 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:43.400 sure that I was making at those two jobs combined. 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:44.880 I want to say it was in the high forties 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:51.560 or something like that. And another thing that dawned on 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:55.320 me was that it's not the employer's you know, responsibility 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.839 or even concern, frankly, to worry about the fact that 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:02.240 I had a four hour commute, you know, to and 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.920 from when you took two hours each way, or that 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.159 my Amtrak ticket was you know, four hundred and something dollars. 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:11.040 At the time, I negotiated from a position of strength, 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.680 not from a position of need or greed. And I 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:16.720 think that's one of the biggest mistakes that people make 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:17.920 when they say, well, I don't know if this is 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:20.480 a good amount, how much should I ask for, et cetera. 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.400 You have to think about the value that you're going 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.080 to give to a company and what is that worth, 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:28.280 and also what is the dollar amount that you'd be 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.520 happy with. So somebody can tell you, oh, you should 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:35.000 negotiate for more. But if you say, I'm looking for 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.960 a job and you know, to get this new position, Wow, 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:39.640 if they made me an offer of you know, seventy 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.200 five thousand dollars a year, woohoo, I'd be jumping through 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:43.880 the you know, jumping up and. 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:44.760 Down for joy. 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.280 And if they come through with, say an eighty thousand 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.560 dollars offer, and you're like, who, I'm over the moon. 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.200 Do you need to negotiate? No, you don't need to. 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.840 Obviously you'd be happy or satisfied. Perhaps you might want 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:01.280 the experience of negotiating and that can actually be helpful 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:04.240 and beneficial, and yeah, you might actually get more. But 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:08.679 it's not a situation where it's a it's a matter 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:12.200 that has to be forced, where you wouldn't be happy 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:16.160 and truly incentivized and motivated to do a very very 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:16.720 good job. 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:20.320 So go ahead. 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:21.120 I'm sorry it Mandy. 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.160 Nope, actually, Tiff, did you move locations? 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.440 No, I'm in the same space, okay, socially echoway, but yeah, 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:28.920 go ahead. 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.440 No. I was just gonna say, well, how do you 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:34.240 so my little sister just called me the other day. 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:38.160 She had a job interview, and it was strange in 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:43.480 that her employer is based in London, and so they 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.800 were asking, you know, they want basically heard I guess, 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.679 to pay her health insurance out of pocket, but they 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:53.400 wanted to include that into her income. So she was 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:55.160 asking me like, well, how do I know you know, 0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:00.280 health insurance as well as her retirement package. So she 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:04.160 was asking about how do I negotiate that part of 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.800 my salary because you know, she never had to do 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:10.280 that before because usually it comes with the company figuring. 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:10.800 Out the dollar amount. 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:12.560 So what is something that somebody that she can I mean, 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:14.720 she's already since I told her to go to like 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:17.800 policy Genius to see how much insurance would cost that 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:19.679 she was going to be paying out of pocket. But like, 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.640 what are some tips that someone who has to figure out, Okay, 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:26.400 this company's not giving me health insurance or a retirement package, 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.120 how can you incorporate that into negotiating for how much 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.880 you want as far as your salary? So great question, 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:37.880 and it's definitely an atypical situation tip that your sister 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:38.559 is dealing with. 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:40.600 Usually it's the other way around. 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:45.640 Usually it's a company trying to perhaps give up a 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:50.200 lower cash portion of the compensation, and they're trying to say, 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.880 but look at all these other benefits and perks. You know, 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:54.600 we're going to take care of your health insurance, We're 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.120 going to give you retirement benefits, or profit sharing or 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:01.520 stock options or whatever. So what you advise her to 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:05.800 do is actually was smart counsel, which is you need 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.360 to understand exactly how much you would have to pay 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:12.640 independently on your own for those types of things in general, 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:14.880 though regardless of which way it goes, if you have 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.600 to pay it or if the employer is covering those 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.960 things for you. One of the things that I teach people, 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:22.839 and you guys know that, I have a course now 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.240 called The Art of Negotiating for Women on Money Coach University. 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:31.360 I talk about valuing other variables. And it's so important 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:36.000 to do this because for the most part, when you 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:40.360 think about your pay, it's not just about the cash 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:42.800 dollars that the employer is going to give to you, 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.280 you know, every two weeks or whatever. All of those 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.920 other variables, all of those other benefits, those are real 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.200 life dollars, because otherwise it would be out. 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:53.560 Of pocket costs for you. 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.480 So you need to say how much holiday pay am 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:01.319 I going to get? How much extra or anticipated vacation 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:05.800 pay will this employer be providing me? And how much 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.880 negotiating room is there for that. It's always negotiable. Everything 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:11.200 is negotiable. Will they be willing to pay off my 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.200 student loans, for example, all or a portion of the 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:15.680 student loans? 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:20.600 Will they provide me with flexible work schedules? You know, 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:22.000 what is that worth to me? 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.280 When I was leaving, when I was at the tail 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.960 end of my employment as a Wall Street Journal reporter 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:31.319 for CNBC, one of the things that I negotiated at 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.720 the end of my contract there, I had a very 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:36.920 nice six figure salary, but I was in the process 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.079 of writing my first book, and long story short, we 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:42.360 were at an impass, and I had an agent who 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:48.200 was negotiating for me, a very high profile TV and 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.800 book agent, a guy named Bob Barnett. But long story short, 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:56.719 we were at an impass, and at that point I 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:05.200 negotiated directly with a woman who was one of the. 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:04.600 Key people there. 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:09.120 And in the end it kind of all fell apart 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:13.120 and there was, you know, some frankly bad faith negotiations 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.600 that took place, not on the part of CNBC management 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:18.880 and not on you know, Wall Street journal Folks. You 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.440 know this person got fired and whole bunch of other stuff, 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.560 as did I, you know, me, and two hundred other people. 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:28.320 But I'm saying all that to say that what I 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:32.440 negotiated was when we got to an impasse and she 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.160 told me, this is as high as I can possibly go, 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.280 I said, okay, I'd be willing to accept that salary 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.160 if I get that salary and I'm able to work 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.960 four days a week instead of five days a week, 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.760 and having that flexible schedule was beneficial to me. It 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:50.920 basically meant I was working eighty percent of the time 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:53.240 instead of one hundred percent of the time, but I 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.040 still got the same level of pay, and I used 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:59.600 that extra Friday off each week to write my first book, 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:03.959 invest Success. So you have to be able to quantify, 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.000 and you can do it through a variety of means. 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.160 But you should know, for something like that flexible work schedule, 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.160 what would it be worth to you? Only you can 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:12.640 answer that question. You don't need to go on a 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:16.880 website or to you know, look up something on Google 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:20.000 or whatever. You know, what that is sort of worth 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:22.959 to you from a quality of life standpoint or from 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.040 an aspirational standpoint if it frees you up to do 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:27.880 something else, right. 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.760 I have a question, Lynnette, So this is and you 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:34.480 talked about asking for a semi part time schedule, a 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.720 day off a week to work on your book. Do 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:40.160 you feel like that is maybe treated differently than one So, 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:42.400 for example, let's say a new mother may not get 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.480 very much maternity leave at her office. Do you think 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.440 it's looked at differently if a worker a woman would 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:52.839 want to take off or ask for a part time 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.800 schedule to spend time with her a newborn or with 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:02.120 her child. And do you suggest that you know, new 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.760 moms ask for that, especially if they don't get a 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:08.760 very generous which many many women don't get a very 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:11.640 generous maternity leave schedule. 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:17.720 The reality is there there are gender biases in the workforce. 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:23.280 And yes, you know, I would be less than honest 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.640 if I said that I didn't think many employers frankly 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:33.400 dependent upon the industry, dependent upon the line of work 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.520 that the woman was doing. If I didn't say that, 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.080 many employers would look kind of a skance at that 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.760 or see that in potentially a negative light. You have 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.200 to think about it in a bigger context, however, because 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.400 not everybody, of course, you know, many of us are 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.280 going to have kids, and I've had three kids, and 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.000 many people will go through a phase where you're out 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.280 of the workforce for X amount of time. Again, I'll 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:02.120 tell you what I negotiated during my maternity leave and elsewhere. 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:03.000 It was great. 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.120 I got an office and built in my house twice, 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:08.880 not once, but twice when I had my two kids 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.520 when I was in corporate America, So it actually worked 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:16.400 out for me. But some employers will look at what 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:20.119 is the reason that you're asking for a flexible schedule. 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.320 For example, if you want to do a sabbatical, if 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:27.480 you want to take time off to travel or do research, 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:30.840 if you want to go do a graduate program or 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:32.800 take part time for school, if you want to write 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.480 a book, if you want to do something quote unquote professional, 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.760 or something that's along the line of career or perhaps 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:43.040 academic development. Chances are they're going to look at that 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:47.160 in a certain light, which is going to likely be 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:51.160 viewed differently than taking care of your personal needs, you know, 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.920 tending to your family, your kid, that kind of thing. Now, 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:56.600 you and I we all know that a woman or 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:01.680 a man who is not distracted at work, who feels focused, 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.840 and who has flex time, et cetera, is probably going 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.960 to be actually a better employee, right because they're going 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:09.640 to be less stressed about it, They're going to have 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.680 more work life balance, and they won't have the same 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.960 stress around those issues. But you know, think about a 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.120 woman who's you know, on the sort of on the 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.359 career track to become a partner in a law firm. 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:22.560 Et cetera. 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.240 Sure I can see her being you know, put on 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.400 quote unquote the Mammi track and not being viewed as 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.120 viable a candidate for promotion, et cetera. If she flat 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.000 out said, listen, I want to take time off because 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.280 I want to go, you know, with my kids. 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:38.160 I think a. 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:43.720 Better strategy is to come at an employer by explaining 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:48.120 how a flex schedule or a co working schedule with 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:50.520 you and another person who might be you know, the 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:52.320 two of you might each do twenty hours a week 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.760 or something to that effect, how that would benefit the 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:55.920 employer period. 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:56.760 End of story. 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:01.600 Again, my initial advice is that people go to employers 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:05.000 with the wrong approach or with the wrong messaging. So 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.040 that sounds like a personal need to me. You know, 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.119 I have a baby, and I want to spend extra 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.720 quote unquote time with my baby. I took this six 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:16.320 weeks maternity, three weeks, eight weeks, whatever it was you took. Oh, 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.439 but now I want to spend extra quote unquote. 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:20.000 Time with a baby. 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:24.040 That's not the right approach because again, that's arguing from 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.800 a standpoint of need, or sometimes people argue from a 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.640 point of greed even and not from a position of strength. 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:33.880 If you can show your employer, if. 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:37.280 You can demonstrate to them how you are going to 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:41.800 be just as productive during your twenty to twenty five hours, 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:43.200 or how. 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:44.760 You will be. 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.360 Still effective in your job, or how you will actually 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:54.320 impact their bottom line, whether that's revenues or profits, or 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:59.840 ability to engage with and retain clients, whether it's achieving 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:05.760 some cost savings or efficiencies, whether it's in the operation side, whatever, 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.439 and you can and should be able to demonstrate that. 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.119 So part of what I like to tell people about 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:14.960 is we've all heard this expression about oh, you know, 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.520 know your worth, you know and all of that. Well, 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.160 it's not important to just know your worth. It's important 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:24.119 to show your worth, to demonstrate to literally give them 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.320 a bottom line, give them some numbers, because that's what 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:32.760 employers understand. They understand, Oh, she will still have x 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.960 number of customers served. She will be just as effective 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.640 on the sales or distribution or the marketing side, or 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.440 you know, her efforts will help us to curb these 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.119 legal costs or you know that kind of thing. You 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.399 have to be able to document and show to an 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.800 employer how it is that you're still helping the bottom 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:54.679 line and indeed improving it. 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:56.400 That's great advice. 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:02.719 Well, okay, so I'm going to ask for the entrepreneur 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:05.439 side because you know, I know that you've answered some 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:07.600 great questions. 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:07.960 For when you have a job. 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.720 So say you're an entrepreneur, and I you know, I 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.719 know I've asked you this personally. You've guided me so well. 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:21.240 When you're negotiating, you know, like a speaking engagement or 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.959 a contract or, and you're not quite sure because you know, 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:27.400 a speaking engagement can run anywhere from you get five 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.840 hundred dollars, some people get fifty thousand dollars, and how 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.200 do you know you know what your cutoff is? 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:34.359 Like? 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.320 You know, well, I'm at a point now I'm not 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.680 going to take a less than this, but I probably 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.560 should not expect fifty thousand dollars? Like, how how do 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:42.359 you navigate? 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:42.639 You know? 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.280 So this is someone who's not brand new to speaking, 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.600 but they're also not a super season veteran. Most people 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:51.000 fall somewhere in the middle. How do you start to decide? 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.760 You know, like, you know, how much is how much 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.919 to expect and when? Because There's been times when people 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.160 have said yes so quickly and I'm like, oh man, 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:04.320 I not lay exactly, maybe you know thousands of dollars more, 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:05.960 And I'm like, how am I supposed to know that? 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:06.600 You know? 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.400 So how do you figure that out? So great question, Tiffany. 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.880 I think the way that I've navigated this challenge over 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:16.240 the course of my career and especially the last fifteen 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:20.280 years as an entrepreneur is I set my rates accordingly, 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:24.120 first and foremost based on the value that I bring 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:26.600 to an organization and what I would be happy to 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.359 be paid to get for a speaking engagement or for 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:34.879 other types of client work that I do. So for me, 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:38.280 the first question is one of. 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:39.960 Value. 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:43.920 The second thing is around benchmarking. So yes, I mean 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.080 you do want to have competitive pricing right, So that 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.280 means that you do have to kind of know the 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:53.120 going range. And as you said, somebody might be starting out, 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.240 they might be like, great, if I get five hundred 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:57.160 dollars one thousand dollars for a speaking. 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.040 Gig, I'm great, I'm good. I'm real happy with that. 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:06.200 My case, I think a third point of reference is instructive. 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:10.679 It's definitely helped me, and that's to talk about this stuff. 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:12.680 That's to be candid and honest. 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:17.359 So, for example, I pride myself on pricing integrity, and 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.240 that's what I call it in the sense that any 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:22.240 client who calls me up, they're going to get the 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:27.439 same price. It can be Walmart or Prudential or you know, 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:31.639