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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, Welcome to another episode of the Chuck Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for watching or listening however you doing. And my

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Speaker 1: apologies to my friends at Apple who listen just on Apple.

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Speaker 1: We know we've had some issues. We're working with them.

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Speaker 1: We'll take your help pinging Apple to make sure they

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Speaker 1: fix this problem of automatically updating the podcast there, So

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Speaker 1: my apologies if it's frustrating you on that. My guest

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Speaker 1: today is Rokanna. So it continues sort of a series.

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Speaker 1: There's a theme this week, as you can see, talk

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Speaker 1: to three Democrats from really three different parts of the country,

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Speaker 1: right Iowa, Texas, California. The ones running for governor, one's

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Speaker 1: running for might be running for president in Rocanna, and

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Speaker 1: one is a rising star inside of potentially House leadership,

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Speaker 1: we'll see. And they all have different takes on what

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Speaker 1: should the Democratic Party be doing going forward? How should

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Speaker 1: it deal with it's asked and so I hope you

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Speaker 1: listen and enjoy this conversation with Rocanna through that lens.

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Speaker 1: And I hope you've you know, listened to Rob Sayan

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Speaker 1: and I hope you listen to Jasmine Crockett. So's it's

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Speaker 1: an interesting I think we're getting an interesting window. All

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Speaker 1: three of these are millennial politicians, by the way, if

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Speaker 1: you're keeping tracked generationally, so I think it tells you

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Speaker 1: sort of where the where the next generation of leadership

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Speaker 1: wants to take the party. The question, of course, is

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Speaker 1: whether this older generation of Democratic leaders will ever give

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Speaker 1: up power. A lot of them struggle to do that,

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Speaker 1: whether it was Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, or Chuck Schumer.

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Speaker 1: That's and you can hear a little bit of that

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Speaker 1: frustration in these interviews. But before I get there, I

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Speaker 1: do want to talk a little bit about the president's trip.

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Speaker 1: I do think he's had some forign policy potential. He

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Speaker 1: set himself up for some potential positive form policy developments

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Speaker 1: unless he gets in his own way, which is sort

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Speaker 1: of the you know, the most generous description of the

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Speaker 1: Trump presidency in one point zero or two point zero

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Speaker 1: if you're looking for positive ways of how he's tried to,

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Speaker 1: you know, try to move move the country in a

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Speaker 1: direction that maybe there's a majority wanting to move in

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Speaker 1: that direction. But it's his inability to sort of what

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Speaker 1: he's When he's onto something that has majority support, he

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem to know how to implement it. My longtime

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Speaker 1: colleague and friend, Sahil Kopor, who's over at NBC News,

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Speaker 1: had a terrific piece about Donald Trump responding to this

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Speaker 1: executive order he signed this week before he left for

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Speaker 1: his Middle East trip on prescription drugs, and let me

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Speaker 1: read part of what he said. He says there's been

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Speaker 1: a unique tendency for Trump in his second term, a

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Speaker 1: reluctance to attempt bipartisanship even when there is significant overlap

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Speaker 1: with Democrats on a goal. Instead, Trump has repeatedly sought

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Speaker 1: to go it alone at risk of failure. The self

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Speaker 1: styled deal maker is passing up opportunities for a deal

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Speaker 1: lest he have to share the victory with his political foes.

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Speaker 1: Kupoor rights it is a break from tradition. He notes

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Speaker 1: presidents typically do attempt to achieve congressional approval for their goals,

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Speaker 1: knowing that legislation is the best way for a policy

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Speaker 1: to overcome legal hurdles, especially if it's bipartisan, because it

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Speaker 1: can stand the test of time, and he notes this

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Speaker 1: move on drug pricing is just the latest example. In

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Speaker 1: recent weeks, he notes, Trump has hinted at support for

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Speaker 1: raising taxes and upper earners a goal that is virtually

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Speaker 1: unanimous democratic support. He could have turned that into a

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Speaker 1: bipartisan victory, but instead he's repeatedly offered it up as

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Speaker 1: a trial balloon for his party line agenda, only for

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Speaker 1: congressional Republicans to shoot it down. He notes another example,

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Speaker 1: Trump's campaign promise of government funded IVF treatments, another goal

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Speaker 1: that Democrats are more supportive of than Republicans. And guess

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Speaker 1: what it is not in anywhere in his big beautiful bill.

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Speaker 1: And yet there has been, as he writes, scant effort

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Speaker 1: by Trump at a bipartisan deal that could deliver on

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Speaker 1: that promise. And then he notes the tendency in general

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Speaker 1: is why Trump assigned fewer bills into law than any

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Speaker 1: president since the nineteen fifties during his first one hundred

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Speaker 1: days in office. And this is look, I could sit

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Speaker 1: here and say this is a Trump problem, but this

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Speaker 1: has been something that's developed arguably really since Bill Clinton's presidency.

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Speaker 1: And really so then some might argue, since Newt Gingridge

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Speaker 1: took over and new Gingrich's philosophy took over the Republican Party,

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Speaker 1: where you had a Republican party that wouldn't want to

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Speaker 1: work with a Democratic president and the more that happened

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Speaker 1: with Bill Clinton, the fewer Democrats that would be willing

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Speaker 1: to work with a Republican president. It became this tit

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Speaker 1: for tat. Ronald Reagan enjoyed a lot of Democratic support

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Speaker 1: in the early eighties for his early stuff. I remember

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Speaker 1: getting lots of stories by the late Ken Duberstein, former

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Speaker 1: chief of STAF in the last two years of Ronald Reagan.

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Speaker 1: In the first term, Duberstein worked in the Congressional of

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Speaker 1: the Liaison Office, and they had a mandate to work

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Speaker 1: with Democrats and to find ways to come up with

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Speaker 1: legislation that they could work with House Democrats, and they

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Speaker 1: had a lot of bipartisan success. It was the way

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Speaker 1: you got things done. Now. Granted, Ronald Reagan had to

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Speaker 1: work with Democrats because Democrats had control of the House

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Speaker 1: during his entire presidency, so certainly having you know, and

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Speaker 1: Bill Clinton had to work with House Republicans in his

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Speaker 1: much of his second term. Why because for much of

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Speaker 1: his presidency they controlled the House. George W. Bush didn't

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Speaker 1: have to really work with Democrats till the end, and

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Speaker 1: they weren't ready to work with him. And Barack Obama

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Speaker 1: had most of his legislative success came in the first

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Speaker 1: two years when he had full control democratic control of Congress,

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Speaker 1: and we saw the same thing with Donald Trump. So

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Speaker 1: the point is is that this has been a growing

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Speaker 1: trend of less and less bipartisanship. Really means is why

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Speaker 1: there's a feeling that none of it feels like Congress

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Speaker 1: doesn't really get stuff done because everything is being done

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Speaker 1: on a party line vote. So let's go back to

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Speaker 1: the prescription drug idea. I mean, it's it. You know

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Speaker 1: here he does wants to create most favorite nation policy

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Speaker 1: in order to essentially get prescription drug prices down in America,

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Speaker 1: balance them out with you know, many pharmaceutical companies sell

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Speaker 1: these prescription drugs for a lower cost overseas than they

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Speaker 1: do to Americans. Here, now, his executive order is meaningless.

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Speaker 1: It is just a press release signed by his name

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Speaker 1: he has. It'll get tossed out by the courts. It

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Speaker 1: has no chance of becoming law. And how do we

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Speaker 1: know this? Even the pharmaceutical companies know this. Like the

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Speaker 1: minute the EO went out, stocks went down and then

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Speaker 1: they realized, oh, it has no teeth, and then the

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Speaker 1: pharmaceuticals stop. Stocks went right up. So if he actually

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Speaker 1: wanted to do this. By the way, there were plenty

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Speaker 1: of for Pabloans who weren't interested in doing this with them.

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Speaker 1: But he could have had a bipartisan victory. But he's

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Speaker 1: chosen not to go down that road. He chose not

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Speaker 1: to go down that road. On taxes, he chose not.

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Speaker 1: Now there's a you know, there would be those at

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Speaker 1: the Trump White House that would say, well, there's a

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Speaker 1: reason he has to do it this way. It's called reconciliation.

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Speaker 1: There's the only way he can't get over a filibuster.

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Speaker 1: So if he wants to avoid Democrats having the power

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Speaker 1: of the filibuster to thwart Trump's agenda, they have to

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Speaker 1: do this under specific requirements on a party line vote.

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Speaker 1: And look, I'm not going to bother to go through

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Speaker 1: the minutia that is reconciliation. All I will tell you

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Speaker 1: is that this, you know, when it goes to you know,

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Speaker 1: my frustration and our cult of personality presidencies is mostly

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Speaker 1: the result of an ineffective Congress and a broken Senate

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Speaker 1: and this ridiculous reconciliation process, this ridiculous philip set of

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Speaker 1: filibuster rules that sort of sort of work and sort

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Speaker 1: of don't where you don't really fillip. You don't really

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Speaker 1: have a way to sort of to use it in

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Speaker 1: a way that might actually make it look like mister

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Speaker 1: Smith going to Washington you could have. I think we

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Speaker 1: could have a more functional government, a more functional legislative branch,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, we would have more bipartisan bills. And I

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Speaker 1: know that in these days, if you're if the other

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Speaker 1: party has the White House, the party out of power

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to work with that because the president's going

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Speaker 1: to get all the credit. This should be the incentive

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Speaker 1: for Trump to try get caught trying bipartisanship. Barack Obama

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Speaker 1: didn't like doing it. He wasn't great at it. He

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Speaker 1: tried it a little bit on healthcare, and then the

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Speaker 1: minute Grassling Voinovich walked away, he walked away from bipartisanship.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't alone. I'm not going to sit here and

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Speaker 1: just you know, Bill Clinton tried hard at first with bipartisanship.

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Speaker 1: It didn't really go anywhere. George W. Bush had some

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Speaker 1: success on his tax cuts. He got five Democrats, if

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Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken to sign on David some Bush tax

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Speaker 1: cuts back in twenty oh two. So and he worked

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Speaker 1: at that horror. Obviously, the atmosphere after nine to eleven

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Speaker 1: made things a bit more collegial, at least for a

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Speaker 1: short period of time, and he took advantage of that

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Speaker 1: a bit. But it is odd. There are times that

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Speaker 1: what Trump wants to do align with a chunk of

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Speaker 1: Democrats who would like to pursue the same policy, and instead,

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Speaker 1: in an attempt to be mister art of the deal,

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Speaker 1: he instead sort of floats it and it look I

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Speaker 1: think it serves him well politically, right, because many in

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Speaker 1: his political base are not small government conservatives. They want

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Speaker 1: to hear that he is in theory for some of

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Speaker 1: these things. So he's able to come out and sound

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Speaker 1: like a populace, sound like, Hey, I'm willing to raise

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Speaker 1: taxes on rich people. Yeah, I want to lower prescription

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Speaker 1: drug costs, but I'm not going to do the work

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Speaker 1: to actually make that happen. If he wanted to make

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Speaker 1: that happen, there's a majority of voters that would raise taxes,

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Speaker 1: majority of members of Congress that would agree to raise taxes.

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Speaker 1: He could get he could get a tax break essentially

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Speaker 1: for young parents. They wanted to increase the side of

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Speaker 1: the childcare tax credit, get bipartisan support for it and

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Speaker 1: have it paid for by raising tax rates on individuals

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Speaker 1: that make over two million dollars. You could probably get

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Speaker 1: Democratic support for eliminating many taxes on people earning less

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Speaker 1: than one hundred thousand dollars a year in exchange for

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Speaker 1: raising rates on those that make a million plus for more.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the irony is that there is there are

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Speaker 1: these bipartisan deals to be had if he really wanted

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Speaker 1: to do this prescription drug. So it is a question

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Speaker 1: of does he even want to do these accomplishments. Does

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Speaker 1: he just want some credit that he's for them, and

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Speaker 1: he can say, well, Democrats don't want to work with me. Look,

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Speaker 1: I've said this. I used to say this during the

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Speaker 1: Obama administration, and Obamas folks would get mad at me.

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Speaker 1: I said, you know what, this isn't a fifty to

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Speaker 1: fifty arrangement between president and Congress have to go eighty

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Speaker 1: percent of the way. Congress will never go more than

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Speaker 1: twenty percent towards a president, right because they're so fearful

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Speaker 1: of their own politics, their own place, all of those things.

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Speaker 1: So presidents almost have to go further in order to

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Speaker 1: achieve a small incremental piece of bipartisanship. But this president

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Speaker 1: passes it up, doesn't try, sort of will throw up

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Speaker 1: a tweet or a truth social post here and there,

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Speaker 1: he'll get some credit. He'll have some Democrats going, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we would talk to him, and then it never happens.

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Speaker 1: So it's a fascinating aspect to watch of him. And look,

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Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is his presidency is going

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Speaker 1: to disappear into thin air if he doesn't get bipartisan achievements.

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Speaker 1: If all of his achievements are via executive order and

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Speaker 1: a couple and reconciliation bills that basically expire after ten years,

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Speaker 1: then it really means his presidency and all the impact

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Speaker 1: to be erased in a decade or less. If you

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Speaker 1: want real achievement, you got to get bipartisan action done

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Speaker 1: and signed into law. That's how you get real achievements. Now,

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Speaker 1: let me offer a little bit of praise here for

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Speaker 1: the President. I thought the words of his speech that

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Speaker 1: he gave in Saudi Arabia were interesting to me because

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Speaker 1: it's I think it's something that, let me just put

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Speaker 1: it this way, it's a type of foreign policy that

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Speaker 1: I sort of it was the coming of age of

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Speaker 1: foreign policy for people of my generation and old, they're

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Speaker 1: very much a Cold War pragmatism. Here's what he said.

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Speaker 1: He goes far. Too many American presidents have been afflicted

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Speaker 1: with the notion that it's our job to look into

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Speaker 1: the souls of foreign leaders an allusion to George W.

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Speaker 1: Bush and Putin, and use US policy to dispense justice

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Speaker 1: for their sins. It is God's job to sit in judgment,

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Speaker 1: My job to defend America and to promote the fundamental

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Speaker 1: interests of stability, prosperity, and peace. Look, there is a

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Speaker 1: bit of a dividing line. There's sort of two divides

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Speaker 1: in American foreign policy. You're basic left versus right, but

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Speaker 1: you do have this sort of different divide, which is

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Speaker 1: between is it America's job to spread and promote democracy

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Speaker 1: or not. George W. Bush thought it was, Barack Obama

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Speaker 1: thought it was as well, And I think post Cold

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Speaker 1: War it's where it was Bill Clinton's instincts, it was

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Speaker 1: George H. W's instincts right, And I think I think

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Speaker 1: if you're a child of the Cold War, or if

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Speaker 1: you were a leader during the Cold War, you want

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Speaker 1: to believe that winning the Cold War meant democracy. One

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Speaker 1: communism lost, right, So okay, so we can keep spreading.

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Speaker 1: So but sometimes, you know, as Donald Rumsfeldt sort of said,

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Speaker 1: once you go to war with the army, you have

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Speaker 1: not the army that you want. And American foreign policy

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Speaker 1: at times has to be, you know, you deal with

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Speaker 1: the leaders that are there, not the ones that you

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Speaker 1: wish were there at times. And so look, he's gone

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Speaker 1: about this in the Middle East with some pragmatism when

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Speaker 1: it comes to the huties, when it comes to Iran,

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Speaker 1: when it comes to Syria, when it comes to Gaza,

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Speaker 1: there's been a pragmatism to him. Now, I'll be honest,

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Speaker 1: there's a cynic in me that says this pragmatism is

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Speaker 1: all because the Golf State rich guys that he's sucking

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Speaker 1: up to and who are helping essentially feather his personal

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Speaker 1: nest and help with all the crypto business that the

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Speaker 1: sons are involved in. Is part of the motivation to

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Speaker 1: be pragmatic about Syria. It's something the Golf States care about,

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Speaker 1: Pragmatic about Iran, it's something the Golf States care about

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Speaker 1: so and pragmatic about Gaza. It's something the Golf States

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Speaker 1: care about. So it's possible this is simply motivated by

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Speaker 1: his own personal greed, his own personal hopes or transaction.

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Speaker 1: And here's another. But the sentiment is a fair sentiment.

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Speaker 1: But I would throw it back at him and a

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Speaker 1: vice president Vance and say, why is it that you're

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Speaker 1: getting involved in Germany's politics? If this is what you believe,

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Speaker 1: And I think it's a fair way to think about

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Speaker 1: American form policy. Be uber pragmatic. What's in the best

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Speaker 1: interest in the United States, hard stop if you've got

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Speaker 1: to deal with a dictator here or there. It is

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Speaker 1: what it is, Okay, then it's none of your business

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Speaker 1: how Germany wants to conduct its politics and treat right

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Speaker 1: wing extremism in their country. It's none of your business

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Speaker 1: what France wants to do. It's none of your business

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Speaker 1: what Albania wants to do. It's none of your business

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Speaker 1: what's happening in other democracies. So it is. It is

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Speaker 1: a like I said, the sentiment I think is a

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Speaker 1: is one that many Americans would agree with because most

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Speaker 1: Americans are pragmatists. You have to be, I always say, it'll.

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Speaker 1: In fact, the whole idea of America is to surface

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Speaker 1: human pragmatism. Okay, So the sentiment works, and frankly, in

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Speaker 1: the Middle East, you know, this kind of sort of

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Speaker 1: real politique over time has served to be the best

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Speaker 1: way to keep stability. But you can't just sort of

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Speaker 1: pick and choose when you're pragmatic and pick and choose.

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Speaker 1: And this would be the problem here is it does

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Speaker 1: feel as if this administration does beat up those that

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Speaker 1: are closest to us ideologically, other democracies, because maybe they

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Speaker 1: don't like his brand of democracy. But if you're going

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Speaker 1: to preach this sentiment to the dictators of the Middle East,

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Speaker 1: and then remember that's look, Katar, Saudi Arabia, these are

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Speaker 1: not royal families. These are benign at best, benevolent dictatorships.

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Speaker 1: I don't really have never understood why we somehow try

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Speaker 1: to separate monarchies from other countries. Just because the person

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Speaker 1: doesn't call themselves a king, they're a dictator. But if

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Speaker 1: they do call themselves a king, they're suddenly a monarch.

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Speaker 1: If it's you know, unitary, if it's sort of dictatorial rule,

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Speaker 1: whether their title is king, emir or president, authoritarians, authoritarian,

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Speaker 1: you can't just pick and choose when you're going to

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Speaker 1: be pragmatic. You can't just pick and choose when you're

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Speaker 1: going to decide whether to get involved in an other

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Speaker 1: countries politics or not, or whether you're going to try

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Speaker 1: to use American leverage. I do think that America auto

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Speaker 1: try to at least live by its own values in

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Speaker 1: how it tries to help those in need overseas. So

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Speaker 1: the decision to cut off AID was one of the

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Speaker 1: worst form policy decisions that Trump has made. So again

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Speaker 1: I go back. It is this sentiment. Live by it

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Speaker 1: through all of your negotiations. Don't just live by it

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Speaker 1: because you're trying to rationalize working with bad guys. This

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Speaker 1: is what you would say when you want to rationalize

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Speaker 1: working with bad guys, and it works if you treat

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Speaker 1: your friends in those countries the same way. One more

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Speaker 1: note on this trip, just before I came on to

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Speaker 1: record this top not shockingly, Vladimir Putin decided not to

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Speaker 1: go to Turkey and to meet face to face with Zelenski.

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Speaker 1: So now the ball's really in Donald Trump's court, right

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Speaker 1: is he going to Putin clearly believes the following on

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Speaker 1: the war that Donald Trump's going to lose interest, America's

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Speaker 1: going to lose interest, and it will slowly back away

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Speaker 1: from Ukraine and he'll be able to essentially over time,

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Speaker 1: push and push and push and break Ukraine. Is Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump going to let Putin play him like this or

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Speaker 1: is he going to realize? And I think more and

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Speaker 1: more Republicans around Donald Trump are trying to tell him

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Speaker 1: this is what we were trying to tell you about Putin.

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Speaker 1: He can't be trusted his word, can't take him at

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Speaker 1: his word. I think Whitkoff has learned this the hard way,

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Speaker 1: his developer friend who is used as his personal secretary

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Speaker 1: of State to go around the country, uh, to go

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Speaker 1: around the world negotiate on his behalf. So ball's now

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Speaker 1: in America's court. Balls now in Donald Trump's court? Are

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Speaker 1: you gonna squeeze Putin? You squeeze Zelenski and forced him

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Speaker 1: to sign this minerals deal. You humiliated him on an

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Speaker 1: international stage at the White House. Putin is humiliating you,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Are you gonna sit there and take it?

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Speaker 1: Or are you going to uh punish him for not

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Speaker 1: accepting your engraved invitation to allow him to win his

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Speaker 1: war with a lot more than Frankly, many in the

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Speaker 1: Western world would have let him walk away with. And

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Speaker 1: he still rejected your offer. He still rejected your offer.

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Speaker 1: What are you going to do about it? A couple

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Speaker 1: other notes, I don't want to make notes since on

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Speaker 1: the political side of the ledger, I think the if

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Speaker 1: you're wondering if twenty twenty six is developing very similarly

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Speaker 1: to twenty eighteen, you have another data point in your favor.

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Speaker 1: The Omaha mayor's race. While officially nonpartisan, it's always been

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Speaker 1: a swing. You know, there's a handful of cities in

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Speaker 1: the top one hundred of populations that actually are swing cities.

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Speaker 1: Omaha is one of them. Jacksonville is one of them,

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Speaker 1: Indianapolis is one of them. Miami Dade County is another

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Speaker 1: one of them. Where these big metro areas where you

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Speaker 1: frequently will see Republican mayor Democratic mayor Republican mayor. Omaha

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Speaker 1: is one of those cities. And here we are in

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Speaker 1: another election where it appears Democrats are a bit more

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Speaker 1: motivated to vote and Trump voters are a bit less

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Speaker 1: motivated to vote. Is that it appears to be the

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Speaker 1: same pattern that we're seeing develop It's yet another data point,

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Speaker 1: and so Omaha mayor this week more proof why so

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Speaker 1: many of US selection analysts believe that the Democratic parties

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Speaker 1: life likelihood of winning the houses probably in the seventy

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Speaker 1: to eighty percent likelihood category if nothing else. Also of note,

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Speaker 1: Pete Bootagic. You know, the last episode, I interviewed Rob

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Speaker 1: sand who I said, if he wins the governorship of

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Speaker 1: Iowa as a Democrat, it probably guarantees that Iowa will

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Speaker 1: be first in the nation. And I said, if Iowa

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Speaker 1: was first in the nation, there'd be one candidate who'd

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Speaker 1: be pretty happy about this, and that would be Pete Bootage.

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Speaker 1: He had a successful Iowa campaign in twenty twenty. I

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Speaker 1: think he and the Sanders campaign can debate who won it.

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Speaker 1: There's some dispute. I think one won the raw vote,

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Speaker 1: one one more delegates. We can go back and forth

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Speaker 1: and who unquote won it. But either way it was Pete's.

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Speaker 1: It was less of a surprise that Sanders was in

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Speaker 1: the top two, and more of a surprise than Bootajig was.

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Speaker 1: He really is made for Iowa. He sort of just

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Speaker 1: just I think temperamentily, really has an opportunity to do

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Speaker 1: well in those caucuses, so he needs Iowa to be first. Well.

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Speaker 1: He made his first sort of presidential foray into Iowa

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Speaker 1: earlier this week, and what was notable to me is

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Speaker 1: what he said about Joe Biden and sort of admitted

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Speaker 1: that Biden was a political liability. Didn't get it to

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Speaker 1: it too much, but the fact that he is saying that,

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Speaker 1: realizing it, because I think it's a huge I think

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Speaker 1: it's a bit of a problem for him right He

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Speaker 1: was he was a great candidate in twenty twenty because

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Speaker 1: he was an outsider. He had no Washington baggage. This

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Speaker 1: time he's going to have some Washington baggage that he

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Speaker 1: has to carry with him, and I think that baggage

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Speaker 1: that's labeled Biden is the heaviest of all. Throw in

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Speaker 1: the fact that the FAA looks like a mess right now,

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Speaker 1: and we have no doubt Sean Duffy, and he's done

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Speaker 1: this a few times, is going to deflect criticism on

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Speaker 1: him and say, hey, I inherited a mess. So there's

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Speaker 1: going to be I think. And at his town hall,

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Speaker 1: Buddhajich was pressed a little bit about the problems at

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Speaker 1: the FAA. What's been going on with recruitment of air

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Speaker 1: traffic controllers. This is clearly not a problem that just

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Speaker 1: started in the last six weeks. Obviously el must and

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Speaker 1: did budajidj a favor if you will, and did Sean

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Speaker 1: Duffy no favors by acting too many people at first

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Speaker 1: and them having to have a massive staffing have to

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Speaker 1: fix their staffing problem inside the Department of Transportation for

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Speaker 1: airline safety. But I think both of those issues are

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Speaker 1: things that I don't think they are they make him unnominatable,

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Speaker 1: but they certainly are hurdles there's going to have to

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Speaker 1: get used to. It is fascinating to me to watch

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Speaker 1: different Democrats and handle the Biden question. Botajig, you got

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Speaker 1: to sort of own it. I think Chris Murphy so

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Speaker 1: far as has done the best. You know, he's basically said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess he was worse shape than we thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of asked and answered, let's move on. Chuck Schumer

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Speaker 1: on CNN when I made an appearance at CNN on

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Speaker 1: Casey Hunt Show, the Arena Terrific Show. It was a

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Speaker 1: really good panel that day that we had. She asked

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Speaker 1: the question and Schumer just said, I'm looking forward. He

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Speaker 1: didn't want to deal with the question at all, which

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Speaker 1: really is pretty cowardly, you know, I think it is.

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Speaker 1: I really believe Democratic voters want to hear their leaders,

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Speaker 1: certainly leaders that they think should be there. And this

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Speaker 1: is why I think Chuck Schumer is becoming more and

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Speaker 1: more unpopular. You're gonna hear Rocanna here in a few minutes.

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Speaker 1: He has he doesn't have many nice things to say

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Speaker 1: about the leadership these days of Chuck Schumer in the Senate.

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Speaker 1: But his answer to Casey humins, I'm looking forward. You know,

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Speaker 1: the inability to say, hey, I wish I would have

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Speaker 1: said something sooner. I had my suspicions, but I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I trusted the White House staff whatever. But be a

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Speaker 1: bit more honest. You can't tell me you haven't thought

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Speaker 1: about anything else. And so the whole idea is I'm

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Speaker 1: looking forward. Look, I hear you. I'm hearing it in

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Speaker 1: my own household, where there's a question, why are the

430
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: bidens showing up? This is bad for the Democratic Party.

431
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: Why is the media focused on this? Well, hey, books

432
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: are coming out Trump's overseas. The bidens chose to to

433
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 1: respond to it. You know, a new story is a

434
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: new story, you know, welcome to welcome to the new

435
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: sidele But and there's no doubt if the Bidens would

436
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: stay sort of in in Rehoboth in Delaware and not

437
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: pop their head up. It probably would help the party

438
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: move on from this Biden debacle. But the more they're

439
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: out there trying to defend themselves, the more it's only

440
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: going to hurt the Democratic Party's image numbers, which took

441
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: another beating in another poll that came out this week.

442
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: You know, here, Donald Trump is unpopular. His policy implementations

443
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: are unpopular. People are very suspect of what he's doing.

444
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: Yet the Democratic brand is in worse shape than the

445
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: Republican brand. So the point is, if you're a leader

446
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party, you better acknowledge to your own

447
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: voters what they see. This is a huge problem. Democrats

448
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,959
Speaker 1: are do a terrible job of agreeing with their voters.

449
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 1: Republicans are so much better at actually agreeing with their

450
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 1: own voters. Democrats do a poor job of that. All right,

451
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: enough for me, with that Rocanna, who himself may be

452
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 1: a presidential candidate in twenty twenty eight, the congressman from

453
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley is I always like to introduce him as

454
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: but he's much more than that Rocanna, Democrat from a

455
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: northern California by way of Philadelphia, because you hear, I'll

456
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: be honest, robed your Philly acxet breaks through. There is

457
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: no California accent, right, the Philly ac set is there,

458
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: I've heard.

459
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: I've heard so some people said it was Midwest, but

460
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 2: there's probably New Jersey and some bigs of that that

461
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: I grew up.

462
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: Well, you know, to New Yorkers, New Jersey is the Midwest.

463
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: But that's ourry.

464
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 2: We long ago. I've headed to the Bucks County. We

465
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 2: can talk about that. I do this annual tradition with

466
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 2: my parents. I take him to a Phillies game. And

467
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: this time we're adding in town halls in Allentown and

468
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 2: Bucks County. But we're going mate eighteenth to the Phillies game.

469
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: Very nice. By the way, are you Warriors or Sixers?

470
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: What if you or you know, so, what did you

471
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 1: end up with?

472
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 2: I wrote very strongly for the Warriors, and that's probably

473
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 2: just because Steve Kerr and Steph Curry, like Tom Tell.

474
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: And your and your political coming of age was during

475
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: their run right.

476
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 2: And there, and they're run and then the forty nine

477
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: ers are literally in my district, and I you know,

478
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 2: so I root for them, But the Phillies are the

479
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: one allegiance that I've kept from childhood because when I

480
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 2: grew up, I don't know how much you follow, but

481
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: like von Hayes and Leddy Dykstra and Mike Schmidt and

482
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 2: we used to go to the vet and with my

483
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 2: parents and we used to go. I was a decent student.

484
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: So the Phillies used to do this thing that if

485
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 2: you had decent grades, you used to get free tickets,

486
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: which is to be free tickets to like the seven

487
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 2: hundred level. But we went to so many gays. So

488
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 2: I've got sort of that allegiance I can't shake.

489
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's talk about Look, you're you're traveling the country.

490
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: I here, I here. There's my observation about what's going

491
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: on right now, and that I feel as if there's

492
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: a vacuum of leadership in the Democratic Party right now.

493
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: There are people that have specific leadership titles. But you know,

494
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, if somebody asked me the question, who's the

495
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: leader of the Democratic Party, I say, we don't know yet.

496
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the answer you give, but

497
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: that's the answer I give. And there's a lot of

498
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: you out there, I think are making the case saying, hey,

499
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: we need to go in this direction, or hey, we

500
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 1: need to go in that direction? Am I over Am

501
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: I overstating this?

502
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 2: Or that?

503
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: Is that a fair description of where things are right

504
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: now inside the party?

505
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: Well, I would say the leader of the party right

506
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: now is the King Jeffrince and by by virtue of

507
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: the fact that and there are a lot of people

508
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: I like Shapiro and Pusher and others, they're all at

509
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 2: two three percent nationally, but no one's elected Keith Jeffries

510
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 2: has been elected as a Democratic leader. Chuck Schumer has

511
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: squandered any goodwill he ad. I mean in terms of

512
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: when I go around the country, people just are very upset.

513
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: Wow, I mean laws that that was very matter of

514
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: fact of you just now. I mean Schumer's got that.

515
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: I have sensed that myself. But you're the one traveling

516
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: a lot more than I am right now. So Schumer's branded,

517
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: Schumer's trust levels have really collapsed with Democrats.

518
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: It's shocking to me. Right, they'll criticize Musk first, Trump's second,

519
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: and then Schumer more than even Jady Vance. I was like,

520
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 2: can't what you're in the fire of Vance or Ruvio,

521
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 2: But wow, and you know you cover politics along that

522
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: most people usually don't pay attention to who the Senate

523
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: minority leader is that or the House minority leader is

524
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: the fact.

525
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: That this Biden hangover stuff, meaning he's the last quote

526
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: unquote old guy still in leadership and they're so angry

527
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: at this generation that didn't leave, you know, in time. Frankly, arguably,

528
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: and Schumer in some way is because he's still there.

529
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: He's getting a little bit of the anger at Biden

530
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: for not stepping aside sooner.

531
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: I think it's the anger at not stepping aside and

532
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 2: they'll hangover from Biden. I think it's of course his

533
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 2: capitulation on that vote. Now, whatever you think about it,

534
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: he just didn't do a good job explaining himself. People

535
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 2: felt he should have stood up, he should have had

536
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: a fight. It's kind of a sense that he's operating

537
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: in normal times. He was a fabulous, in my fantastic

538
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 2: majority leader of the Senate, and Biden's agenda would not

539
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 2: have gotten through in those first two years without Chuck Schumer.

540
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: And he's probably one of the best strategic partners that

541
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: Harry Reid had on campaigns for good ten years, fifteen years. Now.

542
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: I feel like he's lost his feel in touch on

543
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: the campaign side of things, and I felt that over

544
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: the last couple of cycles where I think things haven't

545
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: gone as well as they could have. But now he's

546
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 1: getting hammered on the policy front.

547
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 2: And I think it's positive. But it's also a sense

548
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: of standing up vocally showing that you're out there, you're

549
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: finding you get the moment, and there are different people

550
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: doing it right. Obviously, Corey Booker I think had a

551
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 2: moment where he did it successfully. Murphy has done ed

552
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 2: Bernie and AOC have done it. Pritzker has done it,

553
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: you know. And I could go on and on the

554
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: folks who people see is doing something, and he seems

555
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 2: he's the opposite, whereas Hakeen. I'm not saying that people

556
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: are out there saying great things, but there's no criticism

557
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: of him, and there's a sense of okaid, maybe he's

558
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 2: the person who can coordinate all of these efforts. He

559
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: is going to be Speaker of the House. In life view,

560
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously got to fight through every election, but

561
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 2: there's the sense of these tax breaks for the very wealthy,

562
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: and the cuts to medicaid, the cuts to public education,

563
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: the sense that this unelected billionaire is doing this. It's

564
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 2: really upset folks. And you know, very briefly, I was

565
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: in rural Nebraska. I've been doing these town halls, and I,

566
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: as a good politician, I'm grief. And they say, look, well,

567
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 2: you got to talk about one billion dollars of cuts

568
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 2: to farmers, and the farmers are not able to now

569
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 2: provide food to churches and to school kids, and people

570
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 2: applaud But you know what they really want to talk about.

571
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: You want to talk about immigration. Rural community ninety percent white,

572
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 2: saying why are they trampling over the constitution? Why are

573
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 2: they deporting people without due process? So I just think

574
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 2: they've overreached, and I think there's a very good chance,

575
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 2: very very good chance a team speaker.

576
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: So what do you think he should be doing? Should

577
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: he be raising his profile a bit more? Do you

578
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: think he can look it? I've had plenty of Democrats

579
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: who tell me that they think he's stuck in Pelosi's shadows.

580
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 2: Still I think he should be out there. I think

581
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 2: he should say, look, I'm going to be the next

582
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: Speaker of the House. I mean, we're going to win,

583
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 2: and here is my vision for the country, here's my

584
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: foreign policy, vision. I'm going to win. I'm going to

585
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: help to start to re establish ties with Canada, with Japan,

586
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 2: with South Korea, all these things that Donald Trump has broken.

587
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to re establish died with NATO on a

588
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 2: domestic front. I'm going to offer an economic vision that's

589
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 2: actually going to bring a cost down, that's actually going

590
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: to raise people's wages, that's actually going to create economic

591
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: revitalization places. So I think he is going to win

592
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 2: by acclamation if we're in the majority. It's not going

593
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: to be one of these Okay, you got to scramble

594
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 2: for the votes. And what I've said to him privately

595
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 2: and now publicly is start to get the direction of

596
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,239
Speaker 2: your speakership. What is it? What are you going to do?

597
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: And he can almost be forward looking. I think the

598
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 2: message for twenty twenty six kind of writes itself. Whether

599
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 2: you're Jared Golden or AOC, you can agree that we

600
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 2: shouldn't be cutting medicaid, shouldn't be gutting public education, shouldn't

601
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 2: be giving tax breaks for the rich, shouldn't be trampling

602
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: the constitution. I don't think that's sufficient for twenty twenty eight,

603
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 2: but for twenty twenty six, I think that that is

604
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: a unifying message.

605
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: Let me get you though, to respond to something that

606
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: I've noticed in the polling in the more sophisticated polling

607
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: I've looked at, which is all these things you point

608
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: out Trump's unpopular. I think in the group of voters

609
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: that made him president are the ones that have soured first.

610
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: Right ones in are usually the first ones off when

611
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: it comes to So it's not a surprise, right the

612
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: most skeptical supporter is going to be the first one

613
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: to jump off the bandwagon. But they're these same voters

614
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: still view the Democratic Party worse than the Republican Party.

615
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: It's it's been fascinating to watch there. You're out there

616
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: trying to talk to those voters, right, the Democrats that

617
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: that that the Democrats lost, right supporters that they lost. Obviously,

618
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: there's the one way the brand can recover is simply

619
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: by not being Trump. But you know that's only going

620
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: to go so far. What you know, how how damaged

621
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: is the brand and what's your vision to make it

622
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: to recover it? And and you know what would you

623
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,479
Speaker 1: be doing if you were Ken Martin right now? Because

624
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: I'll be frank, I don't know what he's doing.

625
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 2: Well. There are three different sort of questions. I think

626
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 2: what Ken Martin can be doing is coordinating a lot

627
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 2: of the efforts that some of us are doing individually.

628
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 2: I'm not saying I don't think Ken Martin sees it

629
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: as his role to provide the vision of the future

630
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: of the Democratic Party. But he can be saying, hey,

631
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 2: ro look, you've done five town halls. You're going to

632
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: Allentown and Bucks County. Chris Murphy, you're going with Maxwell Frost, Bernie,

633
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 2: you're doing this stuff with AOC Corey. You're doing stuff.

634
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 2: Why don't we all do stuff together? Why don't we

635
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: have these thirty.

636
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: Districts so you have voter registration things here, make sure

637
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: you're doing this, voter contact there right, stuff like that.

638
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 2: And when if someone asks what can I do, which

639
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,919
Speaker 2: is the biggest question, we should be able to say,

640
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 2: go to this site and hear the five things you

641
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 2: can do, almost like we're running a presidential campaign or

642
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 2: a midterim campaign, like go knock on doors, go organize,

643
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 2: and right now the sense first few months people said

644
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 2: you're not doing anything Democrats. Now people are saying, okay, guys,

645
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: you're all doing stuff, but you're all free agents. We

646
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 2: need the coordination. Ken Martin can help provide the coordination.

647
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 2: In terms of the brand. I don't think it's just

648
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: a brand problem. It's a substance problem. And the substance

649
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 2: problem is that there are a lot of places like

650
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 2: I was just two weeks ago, like Lorain, Ohio. You

651
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 2: know you've been to these type of places. So you

652
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 2: go to Lorain, Ohio. Six mile steel plan abandoned by

653
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 2: the way, all the locals think that it's controlled by

654
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 2: a drug cartel from Mexico that uses it for money laundering,

655
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 2: that hires folks every couple months and fires them to

656
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 2: make it look like they're doing work. But it's just

657
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 2: a money wandering operation. The hotel we had meetings in

658
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 2: thirty percent occupants. You shipyard desolated, they lost their their

659
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 2: ship making and they lost an auto plan. And you said,

660
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 2: what has happened to this place? Why has no one

661
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 2: done anything for forty years? And it's not even like

662
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 2: should we have tech jobs or manufacturing jobs or service jobs.

663
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 2: How about we have any kind of jobs, how about

664
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 2: we have any kind of economic development. So the first

665
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 2: things democrats have to say is we were part of a

666
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 2: system that failed so many people, that allowed economic opportunity

667
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 2: to pile up in Silicon Valley and other places. And

668
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 2: it's not just materialism, Chuck, And this is I think

669
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 2: where people miss where I'm showing up in tont of

670
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: the economy. It's people's status, people's pride. We used to

671
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 2: celebrate the manufacturers, the workers who were building America, and

672
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 2: suddenly they felt abandoned and hat set calt like the

673
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: people who were really moving the country forward were on

674
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: Wall Street or Silicon Valley. We valued and they weren't valued.

675
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 2: And I think we be honest about that. And then

676
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 2: we say, look, here's the choice you got. Howard Lutnik

677
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 2: and Trump and Manson, they're saying explicitly they won nineteenth

678
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 2: century policies. I mean, Trump loves quoting McKinley, he loves

679
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 2: quoting James Paul.

680
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: I'm curious, do you think the people you've run into

681
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 1: in Lorain, Ohio share Howard Lutnik's vision of creating a generation,

682
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: you know, multi generations of workers for factories. That is

683
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: not the American dream. That is a that is a

684
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: common I'm sorry, that's that's communism. You're locked in to

685
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: a job that you're the once you're born. If your

686
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: father's a factory worker, you're a factory worker. That's a

687
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: caste system. That's a communistic system. I don't get that vision.

688
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: We sort of they've gone off, they've gone off the

689
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 1: deep end. I mean, we need to restore the ladder

690
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: of opportunity, right, That's what this was about. Where you

691
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 1: got a factory job so you could support your family,

692
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: so you could give your kids a better opportunity. But

693
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: maybe you didn't want your kid to work in the factory.

694
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: You hope that that's a that's a safety net, but

695
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: you actually are hoping your kid does better than you.

696
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: That was the American dream. I thought we were trying

697
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: to continue.

698
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: Look, Latin Ache is away with words, I mean, and

699
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: he avidly hasn't been collpics much. I'll be telling you

700
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:36,959
Speaker 2: about it, that's for sure.

701
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: These guys are like, wow, really you're limiting toys.

702
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: Good luck with that. Let me try to be charitable

703
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 2: to let they can see what he was trying to say.

704
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 2: What he said so poorly. You know, obviously there are

705
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 2: a lot of people who grow up in these communities

706
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 2: who want want there to be a manufacturing planter factory,

707
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 2: who who remember nostalgically the days that their grandparents or

708
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 2: their parents enter their kids could work at at a factory,

709
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 2: and it was a job that people had in that

710
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 2: generations of family members did, and it was a job

711
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 2: of pride and of security and there for them. But

712
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 2: the way Lutnik made it seem is that that's all

713
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 2: they wanted and that they would have no choice in

714
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: the matter. But you go to a place like Lorraine,

715
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: do they want a modern factory there? Would they love

716
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 2: a modern skill factory? Absolutely, they would love to have

717
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 2: modern advanced manufacturing. I don't think the way we can

718
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 2: get into it. I don't think the way Lutnik and

719
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 2: Dance and Trump are doing it is actually going to

720
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 2: achieve it because they're not willing to invest in the

721
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: workforce or provide the federal financing to do it. But

722
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 2: they also want technology jobs for their kids because they

723
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 2: want to make sure that the kids aren't leaving and

724
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,959
Speaker 2: that they have access to the future. They also want

725
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 2: jobs in healthcare and education. They want the diversification of

726
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 2: the economy. That you go to these places and they

727
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 2: are so sophisticated they will the first thing. Most of

728
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 2: these places will say is we want a diverse economy.

729
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 2: We can't be just depended on one thing and a

730
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 2: town where I'm going. Did that right? The thing that

731
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: you go to Allentown. You know what they hate the

732
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 2: most is the Billy Joel song about Allentown because they say,

733
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 2: that's not Allentown, that was Allentown Row when you were

734
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 2: going up. We've diversified the economy. We have healthcare, we

735
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 2: have education, and so Lutnick is the bottom line is

736
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: here Lutnik is providing nineteenth century policies, Trump is providing it.

737
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 2: Democrats should say, we are the party that understands the

738
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 2: economic future. We understand people got shifted, they were abandoned.

739
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: We didn't do enough. Now we're going to have a

740
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: Marshall Plan for America with the business, with the private

741
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 2: sector involved, that's going to have economic prosperity in every

742
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 2: part of this country.

743
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: Well here's the other challenge, though, that I think you

744
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: have and the Republicans have, is that the states that

745
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: swung the election are in the north, are the states

746
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: that took it on the chin the most when it

747
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: came to our economic transition. The sort of okay, but

748
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: there's a whole other part of the country that did

749
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: really well. Why is Texas a financial juggernaut and economic

750
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 1: juggernaut because of NAFTA, because of globalization? Why are there

751
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: factories in Tennessees. Why is Tennessee in South Carolina and

752
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: Alabama doing so well economically because a whole bunch of

753
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: foreign companies built American built factories in those states in America.

754
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: Now they chose those states due to union rules. We

755
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,959
Speaker 1: can you know, we can debate that situation as well,

756
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: But the bigger picture is there is a sense that

757
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: I feel like we're pitting communities against each other. What

758
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: was bad for one community was good for another. And

759
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: this is what makes I think this tariff policy impossible

760
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: to succeed at because one set of tariffs may help

761
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:47,479
Speaker 1: the steel industry over here, but may bankrupt a bunch

762
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: of small businesses in the Sun Belt who have been

763
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: able to grow as businesses because of the ability to

764
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 1: buy goods overseas and the goods that they need to

765
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 1: build their businesses. So how do you strike that balance

766
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: Because a good chunk of the we have benefited more

767
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: from globalization than we have been punished. But the three

768
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: states that matter the most politically in the North took

769
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 1: it on the chin. How do you strike that balance.

770
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 2: Well, I would say it that there were a lot

771
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 2: of benefits to globalization. I means we let in technology.

772
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 2: I mean my district. Obviously, Silicon Valley benefited, Wall Street

773
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: benefited because we had so much capital inflow into the

774
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 2: United States. There was a benefit of to some of

775
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 2: the Southern states for the reasons you said. But there

776
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 2: was also a lot of hallowing down the communities, not

777
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 2: just in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, though they took

778
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: it the worst, but also in places like South Carolina

779
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: where you lost the textile industry, also in parts across

780
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 2: this country that had some of industry shut down. And

781
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: so the question is how do we develop it. My

782
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 2: view is that it can't be blanket ary, partly for

783
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 2: the reasons you said. Partly, Look, I don't believe Americans

784
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 2: are in a won a world where we only have

785
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 2: three choices of gauls. You and I grew up was

786
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 2: born here, grew up here. We used to have relatives

787
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 2: from India count to Busy when was young. You know

788
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 2: what they loved to do. They used to love to

789
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: go to the grocery store. You know why, because they

790
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 2: used to be fascinated that we had sixty five choices

791
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: of cereal boxes in America. And that's a great thing.

792
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: That's a quintessential American thing. Americans won sixty five choices,

793
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 2: like we shouldn't be it used to be the left

794
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 2: lecturing them.

795
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: By the way, it's so true, like this is strange,

796
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 1: Like the Republican Party has shifted from a small government

797
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: party to a tell you what to do political party,

798
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: tell you how to live your life, where no floor,

799
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: No local communities get to decide whether they put floride

800
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: in their water. In the state of Florida. Now the

801
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: governor says no, Well, what if a local community has

802
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 1: a better you know, it feels better about how to

803
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 1: do that. We all know about this child you know,

804
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: the fact that childhood health problems skyrocket and unities that

805
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: don't have Florida in the water. So should a local

806
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: community be able to make that decision on their own.

807
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 1: The Republican Party I grew up with believed in local

808
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: control of those decisions making. This Republican Party wants to

809
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: tell universities what to do, tell you how to live

810
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: your life. I'm surprised there hasn't been a libertarian revolt

811
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:20,879
Speaker 1: yet on the right.

812
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 2: I'm surprised that. I'm surprised that there hasn't been more

813
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 2: ambition on the Republican side. Rightly, that was the whole

814
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 2: point of the Madison system. He's like, I'm enlightened Statesman

815
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 2: Arnold was going to be at the helm. But there's

816
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 2: some a compition that will cancel each other out. I'm

817
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 2: just surprised that Ted Cruz started that way. But I'm surprised,

818
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 2: like Josh Hally or others aren't just saying saying you don't.

819
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: Paul seems to be the only one, right.

820
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: So just you know, maybe Jade Vance isn't going to

821
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 2: be the nominee. Maybe if I take a position against

822
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:48,959
Speaker 2: the tariffs, I'm gonna have a shock for the twenty

823
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: twenty eight nomination. I would just think that there would

824
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 2: be four or five people who eventually start to do that.

825
00:44:54,000 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: So far we haven't seen that. But it's surprising. Mer point,

826
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 2: I think is exactly right that we've got to focus

827
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 2: on these local communities. Not every community obviously should become

828
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 2: Silicon Valley or have huge tech companies, but these local

829
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,919
Speaker 2: communities and how they're going to develop how they want

830
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 2: to economically developed. My view is that just blanket terrorist

831
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 2: isn't the way to do it, but to really have

832
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 2: a focus on economic development in those communities, partnering with

833
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 2: the local communities, providing whether it's federal investment for certain manufacturing,

834
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 2: whether it's investment in their university's, investment in skilled trades

835
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,919
Speaker 2: and a workhorse, figuring out how we have government buy

836
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 2: things if they're baking them. Figuring out how we have

837
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 2: tech academies, because everyone's going to need some understanding of technology,

838
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 2: even if they want to be a plumber or a nurse.

839
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 2: And I think that's where the Democrats really can offer

840
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 2: a vision. Silicon Valley wasn't built by terrafs, it was

841
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 2: built by federal investment, and to me, the Marshall Plan

842
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 2: for the country would work. Now where I criticize as

843
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 2: Democratic approaches, I don't think you can do it without

844
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 2: business leaders. I don't think you can do it without

845
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 2: technology leaders. And part of President Biden's presidency it sort

846
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 2: of ended domestically after we lost the House in the Senate.

847
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 2: But you know, Joe, I mean Americans spend maybe five

848
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 2: percent of their time thinking about the House and the Senate.

849
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 2: There's so much more to America, and the question is

850
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 2: can democratic leaders mobilize technology leaders, business leaders, others to

851
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 2: say we're going to focus on the economic rebuilding of

852
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 2: these communities.

853
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: Look, I've noted this. You represent Silicon Valley. When you

854
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: started Silicon the perception of Silicon Valley is that it

855
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: was sort of pro business but culturally liberal. Now it

856
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: appears the tech world has gotten a bit more culturally

857
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: maybe libertarian, I'd say, I think they always were more libertarian,

858
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: but uber transactional. That it became that it was sort

859
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: of like, if you can't beat Trump, we might as

860
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: well play ball with him. But you know, how do

861
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 1: you describe this right word shift of the tech community

862
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 1: and the tech leaders, and how much of it is

863
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: is substantive, you know, maybe that the Democrats drove them

864
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: away versus how much of it is just simply well,

865
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 1: Donald Trump does business transactionally, and we can essentially bribe

866
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 1: our way and to bribe our way into getting what

867
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: we want.

868
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 2: Oh, look, there's no doubt that some of it is transactional.

869
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,240
Speaker 2: Someone texted me the other day saying, we hated Kamala,

870
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 2: we hated we hated Trump. We voted for Trump because

871
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 2: we thought we'd make more money. And I was like,

872
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 2: how does that work?

873
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, how does that work out? Yeah?

874
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 2: But they thought deregulation, tax breaks this, and they were

875
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 2: pretty uh blunt about it. And the same technology leaders

876
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 2: who are we're sitting behind the Donald Trump DAAs will

877
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 2: be sitting behind the Gretchen Wichmer Dais or whoever the

878
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 2: Democratic president is. That then I guarantee.

879
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 1: You'll invite them, You'll invite them all. Is it going

880
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: to cost it? Does the seat cost a million dollars

881
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 1: to the inaugural fund?

882
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 2: Though? Yeh, you know they're all gonna they're all noticed.

883
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,240
Speaker 2: By the way, if you want to know the opportunism,

884
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 2: notice that when Trump was in the White House, they

885
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 2: never took him off the social media platforms. Now in

886
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 2: January sixth, happens Trump's numbers ago to thirty percent. Suddenly,

887
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 2: Oh okay, we're going to take him off the social

888
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 2: media platforms. And then there's social media platforms he's off

889
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 2: until by the way, DeSantis isn't going out, so going

890
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 2: on doing so, well, oh maybe Trump's going to come back. Well,

891
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 2: let's return him to the social media platform There was By.

892
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: The way, let me pause that I have contended one

893
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 1: of the biggest mistakes that we collectively did post January

894
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: sixth was denied Trump his First Amendment rights and that

895
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: tiger turned out to be That turned out to be

896
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: a mistake. That deplatforming him allowed him to create an

897
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 1: alternative ecosystem. That is, now, you thought our information ecosystem

898
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 1: was damaged before January six you ain't seen nothing.

899
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 2: I agree with that. I mean, I I look, I

900
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 2: had said that we shouldn't have censored that her Twitter

901
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 2: shouldn't have censored the Hunter Binden story, on the Underbiben story.

902
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:12,280
Speaker 2: But yes, I mean at the time I didn't. But

903
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,439
Speaker 2: but just because it was a freedom of speech issue.

904
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 2: And I think in retrospect that that and that gets

905
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 2: to the point of Silicon Valley turning. I think that

906
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 2: there was a sense of too much censorship being canceled.

907
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 2: If he's called the wrong joke, if he said the

908
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 2: wrong thing, Uh, if you made a flirtatious pass at

909
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,280
Speaker 2: someone in an office. I mean, I think that people

910
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 2: in the valley thought it went too far, and uh

911
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 2: they reacted to it. I mean, that's the the the

912
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,439
Speaker 2: the honest troop I'm not saying that there wasn't extraordinary

913
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 2: value in having a training of sensitivity and respect, and

914
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 2: of course with a youth support of the me too win,

915
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 2: but people just felt the thing went too far. So

916
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 2: you you combine kind of a sense they would do

917
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 2: better under Trump that they don't want to feel intimidated

918
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 2: by with this sense that we don't feel free speech

919
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 2: and we aren't able to do things, and I think

920
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 2: that explains the decline. And then finally, just like we

921
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 2: were talking about the pride of people in Lorain, Ohio,

922
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:13,919
Speaker 2: that they want to be valued for what they do,

923
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 2: human nature is the same. People in the Silicon Valley

924
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 2: want to be valued for what they do. And they

925
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 2: felt that the Democrats made them to send the villains,

926
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 2: that they were the bad guys, and I think that

927
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 2: turned them off. And so it was I would say,

928
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 2: those are the complex reasons for it.

929
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, very quickly, since you're not waiting in much to

930
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: California politics, what do you make would do you think

931
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris should be the next governor?

932
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 2: I do. I mean it's up to her, obviously she run.

933
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 2: I actually think she would be a good governor. And

934
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 2: I'll tell you why And it's not you know, nothing

935
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 2: to do with whether she should run for president or not.

936
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 2: But she was attorney general, she was DA I think naturally,

937
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 2: she's actually fairly pragmatic on issues of public safety. One

938
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 2: of the things I brag about all the time, as

939
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 2: I said, in my district, Fremont, Sunnyville, Santa Clara, Coupertino

940
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,879
Speaker 2: are in the top ten safest cities in the nation.

941
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 2: San Jos in the top twenty five. And I'm not

942
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 2: responsible for anything else in California. But the point is

943
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 2: that it's innovation intuitive sense. Do you think Apple, Google,

944
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 2: Tesla their executives would live and have kids in schools,

945
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 2: et cetera. If I weren't safe. Of course it's safe.

946
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 2: But you can be in my politics or for Medicare

947
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 2: for all. I would lose my seat next election if

948
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 2: I was for deep on the police or of not

949
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 2: supporting law enforcement. So Harris, I think, will have a

950
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 2: public safety focus. She will have a focus of building

951
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 2: more in California, kind of some of the EZRA client stop.

952
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 2: She'll be part of this tradition like Matt Mahon and

953
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 2: Dan Lourie, mirrors of San Jose and San Francisco, to

954
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 2: help understand the state's just not been that well governed

955
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 2: over the last some years.

956
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: By the way, that's an how is that not an

957
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: indictment on the democratic status quo in California have had

958
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: sixteen straight years of democratic governors.

959
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 2: It is. I mean, I'm not going to defend every

960
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 2: policy that we've had, bad housing policy. I think if

961
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 2: he has Gavin Newston said the same thing, that the

962
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 2: housing policy has been a mistake, that public safety we've

963
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 2: gone to extreme. I mean that we're not We had

964
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 2: this law where we weren't going to prosecute people if

965
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 2: they broke into Walgreens and took under nine hundred and

966
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:31,919
Speaker 2: fifty dollars.

967
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 1: The reason that on the governor is that on the

968
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: legislature being much further to the left than the governor.

969
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not making it. I think it's the whole

970
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 2: California party that we've got to just it. Could some

971
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 2: of it is the legislature, some of it is you

972
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 2: know that maybe it was that governor couldn't get his

973
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 2: initiatives through because he's been he's been talking about some

974
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 2: of this. But the point is, I think Harris is

975
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 2: a with her stature, with her experience in Sacramento, which

976
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 2: is important in California. With her being sort of part

977
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 2: about the democratic apparatus of California, I think she could

978
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 2: actually make a difference on it, and she'd be kind

979
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 2: of liberated. She won't be running for president from day one,

980
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 2: and so she would be able to do what she

981
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 2: really believes. And by the way, being the first African

982
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 2: American woman governor, and that too, of an incredible state

983
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 2: is a prehistoric thing. I mean, it's not an insignificant achievement.

984
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 2: So I don't know what she's going to do. I

985
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 2: do know she'd be making a lot of appearances in California.

986
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 2: It seems interesting that she chose to speak at Emerge,

987
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 2: which is a typical California entity that to make her

988
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 2: major speech. So, you know, I certainly that's.

989
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 1: A tea leaf, but you're saying you're trying to read

990
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 1: tea leaves. That's a tea leaf worth looking at. There.

991
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 1: You're such a student of history that I feel like

992
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: I can ask you this question and that you're pretty

993
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: good about taking yourself out of the equation. So what

994
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: do you make where do you assume in twenty twenty eight,

995
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:03,280
Speaker 1: the country the characteristics, the style of president, the style

996
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: of leader. You know, when we elect a new president,

997
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:10,280
Speaker 1: we usually reasset. We usually end up with a different character,

998
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 1: if you will, a different type of person than the

999
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,399
Speaker 1: previous president, whether we like that president or not. Right

1000
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 1: from Bush to Clinton, it was sort of a bit

1001
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 1: out of touch versus touchy Peely, right, George W. Bush

1002
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 1: was restore on her an integrity. It was a little

1003
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:32,399
Speaker 1: bit moralistic versus Clinton. Obama was mister gray matter, gray area. Right.

1004
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: If Bush was everything in black and white, what do

1005
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: you suspect the nation's going to want in their president

1006
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 1: post Trump?

1007
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting because I think it always becomes

1008
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 2: obvious that that they wanted after the fact. I know, right,

1009
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:50,359
Speaker 2: it is easier to look back.

1010
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,879
Speaker 1: That's why historians have the easiest job in the world, right,

1011
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 1: they could, They could keep a set looking backwards. Like

1012
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: I always joke, I can't wait. I hope I'm alive

1013
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: in fifty years. It's borderline, and I trust your friends

1014
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley to keep us alive longer. But in

1015
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: fifty years, I can't wait to see what historians say

1016
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 1: about the era you and I are living in right now?

1017
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, I know it will just fascinating. I mean, look,

1018
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 2: I think the country, in my view, is going to

1019
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 2: be exhausted and embarrassed, exhausted just by the constantsationalism, the anger,

1020
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 2: the division, the polarization, and embarrassed that the country that

1021
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 2: my parents came to. The Kennedy was talking about that

1022
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 2: that's not America, that there's so much that we've lost.

1023
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 2: And I think that they're going to look, in my view,

1024
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 2: for someone substantive, hopeful, unifying.

1025
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,439
Speaker 1: Do you think sort of less celebrity. I mean, because

1026
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 1: you know, one of the ideas some Democrats, say Steven A.

1027
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 1: Smith or Mark Cuban, right, they're looking for Trump light right,

1028
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 1: going looking for a liberal Trump, And I'm very skeptical

1029
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 1: of that. I just think, no, I don't think we

1030
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: want to continue you down this, you know, celebrity path,

1031
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: that that's what we end up doing. But maybe I'm

1032
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 1: missing something. You're off both too.

1033
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I think Steve and I would be a

1034
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:10,800
Speaker 2: great voice. I mean, he's a he's obviously a blunt,

1035
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 2: true teller. But I sure, but I don't I really

1036
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,399
Speaker 2: skeptical if that too. I think that they would want

1037
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 2: my setters don't want someone who I actually understands. How

1038
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 2: are they're going to rebuild institutions, how they're gonna rebuild

1039
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 2: a country? Uh, substitute. And I don't think they're gonna

1040
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 2: want someone that copies Trump and style. This is why

1041
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 2: I have But I my pet, peeve is every Democratic

1042
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,720
Speaker 2: politician going on and cursing to You've.

1043
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 1: Gone thirty minutes. You have not dropped the F bomb.

1044
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 1: Most Democrats on and it's somebody you say that. You're like,

1045
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: how do I how do I connect? Well, F you,

1046
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: I've connected. Now I'm a working class guy. You're like, really,

1047
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: you know I you know I work.

1048
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 2: I think it's sort of a pandering to polks, like

1049
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 2: it reminds me of people who come to Indian American

1050
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 2: events dressed in Indian clothes, Like now, you don't have

1051
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 2: to do that. You just need to know enough show

1052
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:02,359
Speaker 2: it up, enough showing up with it up and and

1053
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 2: you know this thing that we elect our next door

1054
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 2: neighbor president. That come on. Most people don't do that.

1055
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 2: They want someone who they think doesn't look down on them,

1056
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 2: who they can go to, like Trump and will. If

1057
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:14,959
Speaker 2: you go to a football game with Trump, you would

1058
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 2: think that, Okay, he's gonna be fun to talk to.

1059
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 2: But do you do do you think American people really

1060
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 2: think that Donald Trump or Barack Obama or Bill Clinton

1061
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 2: is their next door neighbor. No. Trump. Trump says he's

1062
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 2: a genius about the economy. He says he really knows

1063
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 2: what he's doing, he knows what he's gonna build well.

1064
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 2: And so partly in my view on this cursing thing,

1065
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 2: not that. Of course, I went to Eagles games at

1066
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 2: the VET.

1067
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: You know obviously there you weren't raised by nuns, I know,

1068
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: But I don't think that's what people want the same style.

1069
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 2: I think they're going to say, well, isn't isn't there

1070
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 2: a way to to to be more hopeful, more inspiring

1071
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 2: about the country, to to to raise us to a

1072
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,439
Speaker 2: better level? And they and they, I don't think they're

1073
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 2: gonna want the same shouting on the on the on

1074
00:57:57,960 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 2: the left than they that they did on the right.

1075
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll be totally wrong, I mean, I and maybe

1076
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 2: they will want that. I think that will be a

1077
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 2: miss sad for the country if that's what it ends

1078
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 2: up ends up being. I will say, the Democrats, so

1079
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 2: one thing we're going to want on the Democratic side

1080
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,479
Speaker 2: is someone more, someone energetic, who's going to say, Look,

1081
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 2: one thing Trump had is a vitality and energy, a

1082
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 2: sense that he was going to get stuff done for

1083
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 2: that agenda. In whoever the next person is on our side,

1084
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 2: whatever style they have, I don't think it's going to

1085
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 2: be enough to say, Okay, we're going to take a

1086
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 2: break from politics, and I want the president out of

1087
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 2: my life.

1088
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: I know, I remember I used to look. I remember

1089
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: Michael Bennett when he was running for president, he said,

1090
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 1: when I'm elected president, you could go three weeks without

1091
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: hearing from me. I promised. I thought, yes, right, you know,

1092
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 1: but but what you're saying is actually that that's actually

1093
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: not a good thing either, right, I mean, what's the

1094
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: lesson learned from the Biden failure of communication?

1095
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 2: I think there wasn't communication, or wasn't communication enough. It

1096
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 2: was so I know, it was still in the old

1097
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 2: playbook of you do a press release, you speak at

1098
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 2: the State of the Union, you go and meet the press,

1099
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 2: and that that's enough. And it wasn't being out there

1100
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 2: telling the story day to day, putting out content, being present, energetic,

1101
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 2: creating a sense of vitality and motion and doing things.

1102
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 2: And I whether the country wants that. I certainly think

1103
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 2: Democrats are going to want that. Democrats are going to

1104
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 2: want someone they think is energetic, who gets the communication,

1105
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 2: who is going to be out there and energetic. And

1106
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 2: what I would hope is that that energy has been

1107
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 2: channeled in a way that this is energy for the country,

1108
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 2: non energy for just the party. Look, one of the

1109
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 2: things Kamalaiir said that I thought was good when she said, Okay,

1110
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to point a Republican into the cabinet or

1111
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 2: try to bring the country together. It denver got much

1112
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 2: traction because then she said I'm not going to do

1113
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 2: anything different. That was one thing she articulated that was

1114
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 2: different right there. But I my sense is that there's

1115
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 2: you know, the parts of the Harris campaign that were right,

1116
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 2: because we forget that there was a time she was

1117
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 2: doing things quite well. Was when it was we're going

1118
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 2: to turn the page. We're going to bring the country together.

1119
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 2: It's going to be a more hopeful era for America.

1120
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 2: It turned out that people said, oh, it's joy and

1121
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 2: you're not getting the anger. That's fine, but there was

1122
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 2: a sense we wanted to move forward. You just couldn't

1123
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 2: finish the sale. I think that sense is going to

1124
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 2: be deeper by twenty twenty eight.

1125
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: Do you there's a there's a movement out there. In fact,

1126
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 1: the guy who helped recruit Dan Osborne to the Senate

1127
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 1: in Nebraska. You said, you were just out in Nebraska,

1128
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: and he is. You know, he views some of his

1129
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 1: success as not being a Democrat, right, pledging himself as

1130
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 1: an independent. And there are people that were very supportive

1131
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 1: of him are actually going, Hey, that's the right road

1132
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 1: to go down in Iowa, and that's the right road

1133
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: to go down in Kansas, and maybe that's the right

1134
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: road to go down in Florida. What do you say,

1135
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I look at my home state of Florida.

1136
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: The state senate Democratic leader left the party.

1137
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 2: Wow, he's the elected.

1138
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: Lead, right, he left the party to go into Pennett

1139
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: saying that Democratic brand was Yeah, and yet there is

1140
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 1: half of the state not liking the Republican governance of

1141
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 1: the state. Right, what's your prescription in these places that

1142
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 1: doesn't like their leadership? Iowa is a good example, Nebraska

1143
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 1: is a good example. But they've lost total trust in

1144
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party, so they don't look to the Democrats

1145
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 1: as an alternative. You know, there's a movement of independence

1146
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 1: here that the Democrats have to win over in order

1147
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 1: to be a majority party. How do you get them back?

1148
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 2: But look, if people want to run as an independant

1149
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 2: like Ann Osborne and then ultimately caucused with Democrats, I

1150
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 2: think you have to tailor to what's going to be

1151
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 2: effective in a community. And that doesn't mean that I'm

1152
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 2: not encouraging people to run as Democrats. I think we

1153
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 2: have to talk about all the things that Democrats were not,

1154
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 2: from getting a worker safety to the work or wage,

1155
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 2: to medicare, medicaid to getting social Security. In a sense,

1156
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 2: the Trump is helping us remind people of what was

1157
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 2: good about government. They even Ronald Reagan he tried to

1158
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 2: overturn the Great Society, Linda Johnson, he didn't try to

1159
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 2: overturn the New Deal. I mean Trump is literally in

1160
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 2: some places trying to or at least must going after

1161
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:21,919
Speaker 2: the New Deal. So I think we have as a

1162
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 2: party remind people about the core that we fought for

1163
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 2: working class Americans, middle class Americans, economic security, we industrialize

1164
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 2: the country. But then we need to have a vision

1165
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 2: going forward that we care about people. And I think

1166
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 2: people thought we got caught up in niche issues and

1167
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 2: niche issues, and caught up in doing things for the groups.

1168
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 2: You know, I don't think it's wrong for Democrats to

1169
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 2: say America is a great country. We want America to

1170
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 2: be strong. The first thing we're going to care about

1171
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 2: is how America succeeds and is wealthy and strong and

1172
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 2: prosperous in the twenty first century. And I just think

1173
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 2: we even though a lot of Democrats believe that it

1174
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 2: became that they're they're more sidetracked with things that affect

1175
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 2: a few percent and with different groups than having this

1176
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 2: narrative that FDR or John F. Kennedy or Barack Obama had,

1177
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 2: which was it was about America.

1178
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 1: Donald Trump called you up and said, I want to

1179
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: work with you on an issue. What issue would you

1180
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: pick that you actually think you could work with him on.

1181
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 2: Let's turn around Loraine Ohio and John Sounth Pennsylvania. But

1182
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 2: but but, mister President, we're going to have to spend

1183
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 2: some money. Uh, you know, call call these technology leaders

1184
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 2: instead do the deals in places like this, because right

1185
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 2: now you're just saying u AE spending money and all

1186
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 2: these foreign investors and they're making these pledges let's make

1187
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 2: it concrete. Turn around some of these communities. Let's turn

1188
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 2: around five communities. Uh, and do it together to get

1189
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 2: to give hope for the country.

1190
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 1: Uh, jd Vance, you're era, I take it is this?

1191
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: Is this the first debate we might get before the midterms?

1192
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 1: Do you think we could get I'll moderate you, Advance.

1193
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 1: This could be fun.

1194
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 2: You know, he may even go for it.

1195
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 1: So, oh, he's a very confident guy.

1196
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 2: He's very confident guy, and he's an engaged guy. And

1197
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 2: I'll give Vance this. You know, he was pretty awkward

1198
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 2: and I don't say this. It's a hard thing to do,

1199
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 2: is you know, he's pretty awkward on the Sunday shows

1200
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 2: when he started. By the end of it, he got

1201
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 2: pretty good. And the reason is because he did so

1202
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 2: many of them. And it's just like that in practice, right,

1203
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 2: And so look, the thing about him is he's willing

1204
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 2: to at least engage. He's willing to engage in argument,

1205
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 2: and he's on the wrong side of a lot of

1206
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 2: these arguments. But you know, the two places where I

1207
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 2: have the biggest criticism of it. I mean, we obviously

1208
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 2: have a different economic vision, but we're at the biggest

1209
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:41,120
Speaker 2: criticism is he's out there saying openly that there should

1210
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 2: be a less of a due process standard for people

1211
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 2: who are not citizens. And he's very candid about it.

1212
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 2: He says, it's just not worth the trouble. That's a

1213
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 2: blatant violation the Fourteenth Amendment, First Amendment and everything I

1214
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 2: believe in in this country. It's what makes our country exception.

1215
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 1: Oh, it's what made us different. That's exceptional. Is that

1216
01:04:57,120 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 1: in America, when you're in our borders, the Constitution applies

1217
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:01,920
Speaker 1: to you even if you're not a citizen.

1218
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 2: And that's and the second place is just his critiques

1219
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 2: on universities, which you know I I admired growing when

1220
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 2: when he wrote Hillbilly Oh Here. I read the book

1221
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 2: and agree with all of it. I thought it was

1222
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 2: a beautifully written book. I thought, here's a guy grows

1223
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 2: up in Appalachia and serves the country as a marine.

1224
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 2: And guess what his way up is is way up.

1225
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:22,920
Speaker 2: As he goes to Ohio State and a deal he

1226
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 2: has a professor, Amy Chua, and that professor says, you

1227
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 2: know what, take your paper and make it a book.

1228
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 2: And he makes it a book. And the rest of

1229
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 2: the story is is history. But why is he why

1230
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 2: is he attacking those institutions as right that the way

1231
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 2: up in the world. And you know, it's the biggest

1232
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 2: irony all these people, they've all gone to ivy leagues.

1233
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 2: I said, this, this is a this is the ultimate

1234
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 2: gatekeeper of privilege. It's good for them, good for their

1235
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 2: families than not for anyone else.

1236
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 1: I want to get get you out of here on this.

1237
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 1: I I spent the introduction of a previous podcast that

1238
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 1: indirectly said that when America retreats from the world, when

1239
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 1: there's a perception that America retreats from the world, it

1240
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,479
Speaker 1: is not It is not a surprise if you start

1241
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: to see the rise of hotspots. And I'm not going

1242
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:10,720
Speaker 1: to sit here and so I look at what's happening

1243
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 1: with Pakistan and India right now, and this is the

1244
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 1: type of stuff that and the aggressiveness of Israel right

1245
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 1: now in the Middle East in different things. This is

1246
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 1: you know, when America is not says hey, we're not

1247
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 1: going to be the world's beat cop that other countries

1248
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:31,400
Speaker 1: decide to take. You know, if nationalism becomes the American way,

1249
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 1: then nationalism will become the globe's way, and everybody is

1250
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 1: survival of their own regime and survival of themselves. And

1251
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 1: this idea that oh, America is not there to tell

1252
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 1: us no, or America is not there to help us

1253
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 1: out if we need it. You think I'm being overly

1254
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 1: critical here in this situation between Indian and Pakistan, or

1255
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 1: that I feel like if we were a robust NATO nation,

1256
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 1: if we were trying so hard to build an Asian NATO,

1257
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 1: which I think we really need right now, that maybe

1258
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 1: Indian Akistan don't, this doesn't spiral the way it could spiral, or.

1259
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 2: Just if we're seeing as a nation interested in moral

1260
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 2: leadership and being the leader of the free world, that

1261
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 2: there is a value to that, not just for America

1262
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 2: but also for the world. And what does it look

1263
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 2: like concretely in India Pakistan. Look, India and Pakistan will

1264
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 2: both say we don't want the United States to be

1265
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:29,480
Speaker 2: involved in settling a Biladal dispute. That's their standard line.

1266
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 2: But the reality is behind the scenes, when these countries

1267
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 2: have escalated, it's our Secretary of State, it's our National

1268
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 2: Security advisor, it's our military.

1269
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 1: That's all the same person. Now, by the way, as

1270
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 1: you know.

1271
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, hopefully not the military. Let's not give any ideas.

1272
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 1: Yet, but you never know. Hank Seth may go. And

1273
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:47,880
Speaker 1: who else is he going to upput in charge? Why

1274
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 1: not Rubio for that too?

1275
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll punish right where? Did you notice what Trump

1276
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,440
Speaker 2: was sort of like, well, it could be Vans or

1277
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 2: it could be Rubio or the best line was and

1278
01:07:57,560 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 2: I hope it's a Republican, but it could be someone else.

1279
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 2: I think he's going to have an apprentice like contest

1280
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 2: for every party, every candidate to ask yourself, does he

1281
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 2: want another Republican to succeed him?

1282
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:09,919
Speaker 1: Or would it be better for.

1283
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 2: Trump Hill to go to blue maga or independent maga?

1284
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 1: He wants he wants. He doesn't want a successor because

1285
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:18,600
Speaker 1: that implies he can be succeeded.

1286
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 2: But you're but the more serious question, I think that

1287
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:25,679
Speaker 2: Secretary of State, and I hope he will because Rubio

1288
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:28,839
Speaker 2: is a capable and others. They need to be meeting

1289
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 2: a semen. They're meeting Prime Sramodi or at least talking

1290
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 2: behind the scenes and engaging in what we cliche called

1291
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 2: shuttle diplomacy to tell them, Look, the retaliation needs this stuff.

1292
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 2: There's no other who else is going to do it?

1293
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:43,800
Speaker 2: And do we want China to be doing it?

1294
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I always say. If you don't want

1295
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:48,680
Speaker 1: America to be the world's cop, somebody else is going

1296
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:50,640
Speaker 1: to play that role. Are we gonna like that?

1297
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 2: And China has got its own interest, I mean, China

1298
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 2: has got China is much more biased in my view,

1299
01:08:56,200 --> 01:09:00,200
Speaker 2: towards Pakistan and the alliance there than the United States date,

1300
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 2: which was still viewed as an honest broker in that area.

1301
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:07,479
Speaker 1: Well, we have been. I mean, the legacy of India

1302
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 1: is part of the Soviet Block, or at least more

1303
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,680
Speaker 1: supportive of the Soviet Block. Back in the day we

1304
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 1: became Pakistan got closer. We had close but you know,

1305
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 1: we've had these uncomfortably close ties during the Afghanistan War,

1306
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 1: right that we're both hot and cold and this or that.

1307
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:25,639
Speaker 1: And obviously now strategically and economically we have to get

1308
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:29,760
Speaker 1: closer to India at this point. And so no, the

1309
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 1: irony is we have a ton of influence here and

1310
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:32,600
Speaker 1: we're not using it.

1311
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 2: We have done it. It was a bit moral influence. I

1312
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:38,840
Speaker 2: look at his FDR that pushes Churchill on the decolonization

1313
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 2: of Indian and the decolonization of the British Empire. We're

1314
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 2: not perfect. I'm not saying that we haven't engaged in

1315
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:48,719
Speaker 2: wars of land acquisition. But unlike the British, unlike other empires,

1316
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 2: the Americans have an idealism to us as self determination

1317
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 2: and respect the decolonization. And when Trump makes jokes about

1318
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 2: acquiring Panama or Canada, that also seed some of that.

1319
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 2: And you know, I believe that the country has to

1320
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:04,280
Speaker 2: return to this view that we believe in the self

1321
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:06,639
Speaker 2: determination of people. We want to be an honest broker.

1322
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:11,559
Speaker 2: We want ultimately to recognize liberal democracies of the world.

1323
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:13,720
Speaker 2: We could disagree with George W. Bush. We're not try

1324
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:17,720
Speaker 2: to militarily make democracies, but certainly we should believe that democratic,

1325
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 2: liberal nations are am a moral greater moral claim than

1326
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:27,840
Speaker 2: authoritarian nations, and so did they. The loss of our

1327
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 2: leadership is one of the real damages trumpled. And one

1328
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 2: last point. I was talking to some Canadian and I said, oh, yeah,

1329
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 2: the Canadians are really polite. They'll they'll get over this

1330
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:39,600
Speaker 2: once we have a new democratic president. And he said, no,

1331
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:42,760
Speaker 2: you don't watch enough hockey. We've got this thing. Elbows up.

1332
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 2: Then Jersey's off yeah, and we're not going to forgive this.

1333
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 2: We're not going to forget this. I don't care if

1334
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 2: you get an ex Barack Obama or something. And this

1335
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 2: is the real damage he's doing.

1336
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 1: It's going to take a generation for this to recover.

1337
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:58,599
Speaker 1: That it doesn't just recover in one election. I think

1338
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 1: that's right. Hey, let me get you out of here.

1339
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 1: Truly on this, when would you when is it appropriate

1340
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:05,599
Speaker 1: to start running for president your mind?

1341
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 2: I think whoever wants to do it to do it

1342
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:10,599
Speaker 2: after the midterms for one simple reason, and it's not

1343
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 2: even political. It is that it comes off as too

1344
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 2: self absorbed to not be focused right now on the

1345
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 2: cuts and nih they making a team speaker. It's no

1346
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:27,320
Speaker 2: secret that people are planning, and they should. Yeah. I

1347
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:29,360
Speaker 2: never understood the sense of, well, you just want to

1348
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 2: Murtraage out of nowhere. You're trying to lead the free world.

1349
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:32,680
Speaker 2: I want some one.

1350
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:35,599
Speaker 1: I was just going to say, I judgicated it based

1351
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:37,480
Speaker 1: on whether they're actually prepared.

1352
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:40,400
Speaker 2: And so fine. I think it's great, and I think

1353
01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 2: we had a lot of talent in the bench. And

1354
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:44,559
Speaker 2: I and I say that not sort of coillycause people

1355
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:46,840
Speaker 2: obviously people float different names and.

1356
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 1: If you're not on that debate stage, I'll be shocked.

1357
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 1: But I know that's ultimately up to you.

1358
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 2: But but ultimately the great thing is it's up to

1359
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 2: It's up to the country. Right. I called Corey Booker

1360
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 2: last time was a fantastic Canadate. He gave fantastic speeches.

1361
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 2: I would have never guessed he'd be at two percent,

1362
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:07,360
Speaker 2: but that's what the country decided. And I don't think

1363
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 2: anyone I will say this. I don't think there's any

1364
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:12,599
Speaker 2: front runner, and I don't think anyone knows what's going

1365
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 2: to actually be connect But what what I think was

1366
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:18,200
Speaker 2: good wise is we have a lot of candidates. They

1367
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 2: do their preparation with the focus up till the mid

1368
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:23,559
Speaker 2: terms is on stopping Trump and taking back the house.

1369
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 1: Bro Connor, it's always you never play coy, which I appreciate,

1370
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 1: and you don't. You don't get punished for it. Right,

1371
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: You're you're very you know, you you answer questions very comfortably.

1372
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:38,559
Speaker 1: And there's too many politicians that always get nervous about

1373
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:40,960
Speaker 1: making somebody mad and you don't ever seem to have that.

1374
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:44,120
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. I uh and the high high price

1375
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:48,840
Speaker 2: coming from me at the press is mcor you don't

1376
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 2: you don't hold back.

1377
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:54,679
Speaker 1: Well, I just that's well, that's because you know, that's

1378
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:55,760
Speaker 1: the way democracy is.

1379
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 2: That's democracy. That's and I do think that was the

1380
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:03,840
Speaker 2: addendum is I think that was the biggest mistake, that

1381
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:06,000
Speaker 2: that that the Vice president Harris made. You and I

1382
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 2: both talked her in private. She is capable, she's certainly

1383
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 2: intellectually capable of doing the job. She certainly has deep thoughts.

1384
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:14,920
Speaker 2: I think that the big critique it was just she

1385
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:19,200
Speaker 2: was so cautious, and you got and Vance and Trump,

1386
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 2: weren't they They were out there, they mix it up,

1387
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,679
Speaker 2: they give you answers. They they'd fight, I mean, look dance.

1388
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 2: And people are saying, oh, why is Vance responding to you?

1389
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:29,800
Speaker 2: Is the sitting vice president, You're a congress person, you know,

1390
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 2: why is he uh not just staying at his level?

1391
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:36,400
Speaker 2: And this is the Washington thinking that has gotten the

1392
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 2: Democrats in a mess, like you just have to be

1393
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:42,519
Speaker 2: out there these days and express yourself and share your

1394
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:44,840
Speaker 2: views and and and and mix it up. And I

1395
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:46,120
Speaker 2: think that's that's what the point.

1396
01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:49,760
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that entire White House and ticket and they

1397
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:52,439
Speaker 1: were so cautious. It's like they were in their own

1398
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:55,479
Speaker 1: COVID protocols. Still, I mean, it's I mean, and that's

1399
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 1: the that's the only that's the most generous way I

1400
01:13:57,680 --> 01:14:00,800
Speaker 1: could critique it in that they got they got into

1401
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 1: bad habits during COVID where they did they could be

1402
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 1: in a zoom and they could do these things detached,

1403
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 1: and they got too comfortable being detached. Frankly, I look,

1404
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:12,599
Speaker 1: I see it with my son and his friends who

1405
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 1: were in their eighteen nineteen twenty right, they're they're almost

1406
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 1: they're revolting against what COVID did to them type of thing.

1407
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, I think there's I think there's

1408
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:24,960
Speaker 1: a message in there for for how Biden and Harris

1409
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 1: handled thinks.

1410
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:29,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I I and that's interesting. I didn't even

1411
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 2: thought of that. And but for your kids, I mean,

1412
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:32,720
Speaker 2: that's one of the biggest because your kids were at

1413
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:36,719
Speaker 2: the toughest age when COVID hit. That is a well

1414
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:38,280
Speaker 2: and I have a gen z focus.

1415
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 1: I got twenty one year old and eighteen year old,

1416
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 1: and I'll just leave it at that, is that there

1417
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:46,760
Speaker 1: is a real distinction between their experiences and their level

1418
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 1: of trust in government. It's fascinating that's not there the

1419
01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 1: level of trust. That's right, that's rights.

1420
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 2: The last thing I'll say, which I'm worried about substantively

1421
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 2: is even if we get a Democrat, I think the

1422
01:14:57,479 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 2: damaged Trump is going to have done in terms of

1423
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:02,280
Speaker 2: like let's say you go to Loraine, Ohio. Now the

1424
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:04,799
Speaker 2: next Democrats like, I'm going to turn this country around,

1425
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:07,080
Speaker 2: in this place around. They're like, come on, you we

1426
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 2: did the eight years with Trump. We've done eight years.

1427
01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:10,400
Speaker 2: We've done all this time we did.

1428
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:13,360
Speaker 1: Obama said it, Trump said it, and our place is

1429
01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 1: the same. Right.

1430
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:16,559
Speaker 2: So more than the Democrat band brand is the brand

1431
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:19,680
Speaker 2: of politicians, and that is It's a really sad thing

1432
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:21,960
Speaker 2: to me because I think most politicians are still honorable.

1433
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:24,680
Speaker 2: I think there's still nobility to public service. But that

1434
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 2: is just you know, there's no respect in the profession.

1435
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 1: It's no and I you know, I joke. I think

1436
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 1: both parties are more fragile to collapse than you realize.

1437
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:37,439
Speaker 1: Look at what's happened to the Tories. Don't think that

1438
01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:39,679
Speaker 1: can't happen to any major party in this country.

1439
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:41,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, good point.

1440
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 1: You know, anyway, be safe out there was a great

1441
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 1: k Take care, sir, well, I told you Roy kind

1442
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:58,559
Speaker 1: of had some choice words about Chuck Schumer and had

1443
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:01,080
Speaker 1: some advice for a team Jeff that he's got to

1444
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:03,679
Speaker 1: get a bit more aggressive designing what his speakership should

1445
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:08,080
Speaker 1: look like, get out of Nancy Pelosi's shadow. And I

1446
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:12,000
Speaker 1: found the mocking of cursing to be a fascinating and again,

1447
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:16,240
Speaker 1: it's just interesting how different Democrats want to handle this

1448
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 1: situation in this climate. Let me stack in a couple

1449
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:23,559
Speaker 1: of questions from you guys. I love it. You guys

1450
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:27,320
Speaker 1: pipe in with more questions all the time. So let's

1451
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:33,040
Speaker 1: do a little last Chuck Ask Chuck. By the way,

1452
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 1: speaking of Ask Chuck, there is now a weekly substack

1453
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 1: that I'm doing beyond the pod, if you will. I

1454
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:43,759
Speaker 1: have a fascinating I have My lead item this week

1455
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:47,600
Speaker 1: is about whether both parties, the Democratic Party and the

1456
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:51,479
Speaker 1: Republican Party are fragile enough that they could collapse. Allow

1457
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:55,479
Speaker 1: what's happening to the Tories in the UK. I provide

1458
01:16:55,479 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 1: a little bit of historical context there would love for

1459
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: you to check it out and tell me what you think.

1460
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 1: You please respond and ask questions based on it. I'm

1461
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 1: all for it. Here we go. Question from James E.

1462
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:10,559
Speaker 1: Why do reporters who covered Trump avoid asking him questions

1463
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:13,120
Speaker 1: about his weaknesses. Why not ask him about his mafia

1464
01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:15,880
Speaker 1: mindset as anyone asked him about Lisa Murkowski's comments about

1465
01:17:15,920 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 1: being afraid or how would he feel if the next

1466
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:20,960
Speaker 1: president tries to remove or limit his Secret Service and

1467
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:23,400
Speaker 1: his lack of character being a bad example for the

1468
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:27,040
Speaker 1: next generation. Well, there's a reason why you're not hearing

1469
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:30,679
Speaker 1: many reporters ask him these questions because he has decided

1470
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 1: who gets to come into the Oval office at be

1471
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 1: in the press pool. And I do think the attempt

1472
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:38,880
Speaker 1: to control the press pool, because this actually happened a

1473
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:42,559
Speaker 1: lot more often in the first term. You'd have more

1474
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:45,240
Speaker 1: and more just combative questions, which I think is a

1475
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:49,360
Speaker 1: healthy you know, combative questions. You'd have combative questions. That's

1476
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:51,560
Speaker 1: what That's what the White House press course should be

1477
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:53,920
Speaker 1: there for, no matter who's president, you know a little bit,

1478
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:56,360
Speaker 1: because sometimes it's a combative question that really can help

1479
01:17:56,400 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 1: you suss out what president is really thinking or understand

1480
01:18:00,040 --> 01:18:03,599
Speaker 1: and the motive for decision. And you know, I also

1481
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 1: believe that there are questions that you ask a president

1482
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:11,200
Speaker 1: that isn't always about trying to catch him in a gotcha,

1483
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:14,200
Speaker 1: but in fact hand him rope to hear more of

1484
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:17,679
Speaker 1: his answer. I'm one of those you know, look, Trump

1485
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 1: will get out of anything and claim he's not for

1486
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:22,559
Speaker 1: something this or that. So you're better off asking him

1487
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:25,439
Speaker 1: about things he might be for rather than things he

1488
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:29,120
Speaker 1: might be again sometimes or asking him why didn't he

1489
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:31,760
Speaker 1: do things that he said he was going to do? Right?

1490
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:35,880
Speaker 1: Why didn't you go up to Capitol Hill on January six?

1491
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:39,040
Speaker 1: It's a question that nobody's asked him directly, and I

1492
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:42,040
Speaker 1: kind of I don't. I certainly hope to have that

1493
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:45,200
Speaker 1: opportunity and whoever doesn't exit, you know, why didn't you go?

1494
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:48,040
Speaker 1: Why did you choke? On January six? So I think

1495
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:52,040
Speaker 1: that that style of questioning should be more common with

1496
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:53,720
Speaker 1: dealing with Donald Trump. But the reason you're going to

1497
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:56,680
Speaker 1: get many of these questions is he's hand picking some

1498
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:58,719
Speaker 1: of the people in the pool. So while he's still

1499
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 1: doing this daily back and forth, he's, you know, he's

1500
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:07,479
Speaker 1: he's trying to have the most friendly questioners as he

1501
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:11,680
Speaker 1: can surround himself with at times. On that, All right,

1502
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:15,800
Speaker 1: let me do one more before we talked to little

1503
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:20,960
Speaker 1: Pete Rose, And here's the question. You talk about the

1504
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:23,919
Speaker 1: possibility of the Republican Party splitting between more traditional Republicans

1505
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 1: than mega Republicans that were to happen, who would even

1506
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:28,920
Speaker 1: be in the traditional wing. It's interesting that this is

1507
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 1: josh in Ohio and the question goes on for a while.

1508
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:38,559
Speaker 1: Here's the thing I just do think that you're going

1509
01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:42,760
Speaker 1: to see, you already are seeing. The Republican Party is

1510
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:45,599
Speaker 1: broken into two. The state of Texas is a great

1511
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:48,840
Speaker 1: example that has become a three party state. And how

1512
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:50,719
Speaker 1: do you know it's a three party state? Pay attention

1513
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:53,160
Speaker 1: to how they elected the state Speaker of the House.

1514
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:57,479
Speaker 1: It was a coalition of Democrats and essentially non mega

1515
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 1: Republicans who who banded together to create a majority to

1516
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:05,800
Speaker 1: elect a non maga speaker or in this case, a

1517
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:08,719
Speaker 1: non Ken Paxton wing of the party. Speaker Ken Paxton

1518
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:14,160
Speaker 1: the attorney general there who's certainly pretty maga. Lieutenant Governor

1519
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:16,599
Speaker 1: Dan Patrick's pretty maga. Greg Abbott is a guy who's

1520
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:21,519
Speaker 1: trying to straddle the two wings of the Texas Republican Party.

1521
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:24,360
Speaker 1: And John Cornyn is a decided member I think of

1522
01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 1: the more traditional wing. Of course, he's trying to be

1523
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:30,600
Speaker 1: mega friendly a little bit, but I do think, you know,

1524
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:33,160
Speaker 1: in many ways, I look at the Texas Republican Party

1525
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:38,559
Speaker 1: is more of a sort of on the forefront of

1526
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:42,160
Speaker 1: where the Republican Party is headed, and it's already split

1527
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 1: in two. They're just all member of one party right now.

1528
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:47,679
Speaker 1: But this really is a divided Republican party. I think

1529
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:50,200
Speaker 1: Florida's Republican Party is headed there, We're not there yet.

1530
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:54,040
Speaker 1: I think you will see this aft during the twenty

1531
01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:57,559
Speaker 1: twenty six governor's race. I'm not as convinced Byron Donalds

1532
01:20:57,560 --> 01:20:59,879
Speaker 1: as a glide path, and I don't think Casey DeSantis

1533
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:02,760
Speaker 1: campaign is going to get taken that seriously. I just

1534
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:05,720
Speaker 1: think that Rohnda's Antis is too unpopular frankly with a

1535
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:08,360
Speaker 1: lot of people these days. But I don't think Donald's

1536
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 1: will be alone. I just suspect that there'll be more

1537
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:13,800
Speaker 1: that jump in now. Maybe Trump will keep a lid

1538
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:16,760
Speaker 1: on that a little bit, But I do think Texas

1539
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:19,839
Speaker 1: is the sort of what you're seeing happening in Texas

1540
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:22,479
Speaker 1: is where things are going. I think in the rest

1541
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:24,559
Speaker 1: of the Republic, where you will see a sort of

1542
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:29,080
Speaker 1: a distinctive split. Then the question does it become a party,

1543
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:32,559
Speaker 1: you know, does something like the Forward Party be able

1544
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:35,560
Speaker 1: to sort of recruit some of those non mega Republicans,

1545
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:39,479
Speaker 1: just like they're trying to recruit the non progressive Democrats. Right, So,

1546
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:41,840
Speaker 1: but I think it's I think in that sense it's

1547
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:46,160
Speaker 1: already there. And I you know, if the Democrats go

1548
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 1: further the left, I think for sure it's going to

1549
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 1: leave sort of that traditional wing of the Republican Party,

1550
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:56,639
Speaker 1: the pre Trump wing, bit homeless and possibly searching. All right,

1551
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:03,080
Speaker 1: Pete Rose Hall of Fame. Look, I've always thought this

1552
01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:07,640
Speaker 1: was the exact punishment that he deserved, which was he

1553
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:11,040
Speaker 1: should not be allowed to financially take advantage of being

1554
01:22:11,040 --> 01:22:14,080
Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame while living, and that it's

1555
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:17,960
Speaker 1: perfectly appropriate that he posthumously. You know, in fact, it

1556
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:21,519
Speaker 1: should have. I you know, I think in maybe the

1557
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:23,360
Speaker 1: right thing to do would have been to let him know, look,

1558
01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:25,800
Speaker 1: you're you're eligible, You're going to be on the Hall

1559
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:30,400
Speaker 1: of Fame ballot after you pass away, as a way

1560
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:32,840
Speaker 1: of saying, you know, the punishment is you don't get

1561
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 1: to financially benefit from it, which which seems appropriate given

1562
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:40,080
Speaker 1: what he did and that he did tarnish the game,

1563
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:43,040
Speaker 1: you know, and there's evidence that he bet against his team.

1564
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:45,439
Speaker 1: By the way, my favorite part of the whole Rose

1565
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:48,040
Speaker 1: story sidebar story is the guy who wrote the damning

1566
01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:52,640
Speaker 1: report that got Rose banned from baseball. John Dowd was

1567
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:55,479
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's first attorney in Trump one point.

1568
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:55,640
Speaker 2: Oh.

1569
01:22:56,920 --> 01:23:01,639
Speaker 1: So it's just you know, strange bedfellow list always gets

1570
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:04,400
Speaker 1: so long in the Trump era. But that's just one

1571
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:07,519
Speaker 1: of them. But for me, this opens the door about

1572
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 1: how should you how should our hall of Fames work?

1573
01:23:11,240 --> 01:23:14,479
Speaker 1: And it's always bugged me because look, baseball's the one

1574
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:17,679
Speaker 1: hall of fame where baseball fans we all get so well,

1575
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:19,479
Speaker 1: he's a Hall of famer and he's not. We all

1576
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:22,040
Speaker 1: get so focused on numbers and they did this and

1577
01:23:22,080 --> 01:23:24,479
Speaker 1: they did that. You know, I'm obsessed, For instance, with

1578
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:27,880
Speaker 1: Fernando Alezuela. He'll get into the Hall of Fame now,

1579
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:32,200
Speaker 1: probably because he's both the broadcaster, successful broadcaster, and he

1580
01:23:32,280 --> 01:23:35,320
Speaker 1: had a great career. You know, was his numbers enough

1581
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:37,320
Speaker 1: compared to his peers? And I look at it and

1582
01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:39,639
Speaker 1: be like, my god, go look at how many innings

1583
01:23:39,680 --> 01:23:42,639
Speaker 1: he averaged in his first ten years pitching. You look

1584
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:44,680
Speaker 1: at his first ten years and tell me it is

1585
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 1: not compared to the way we use pitchers now, why

1586
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:52,400
Speaker 1: it wouldn't make him an automatic Hall of Famer. On

1587
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:55,320
Speaker 1: that front, I was also somebody that used to wonder

1588
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:57,120
Speaker 1: why Steve Garvey was into the Hall of Fame. But

1589
01:23:57,160 --> 01:24:01,080
Speaker 1: I understand the numbers. It was. It's you know, now,

1590
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:05,920
Speaker 1: I'd argue he was the best player on a team

1591
01:24:05,960 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 1: that was one of the three best teams for a

1592
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:11,240
Speaker 1: fifteen year period in baseball, which the Dodgers were from

1593
01:24:11,439 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 1: arguably seventy two to eighty to well Garvey's almost from

1594
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:19,800
Speaker 1: at least Garvey's time seventy two to eighty four. And

1595
01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 1: then of course I've always said the Dodgers were the

1596
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:22,840
Speaker 1: team of the eighties. They were the only team to

1597
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:25,559
Speaker 1: win to World Series titles in the decade of the eighties.

1598
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:27,960
Speaker 1: The Cardinals went to more World Series, but they only

1599
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:32,320
Speaker 1: came away with one on that front, but I always

1600
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:34,519
Speaker 1: thought it should mean that the Dodgers were the team

1601
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:38,280
Speaker 1: of the eighties on that But the issue of the

1602
01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:40,799
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, because I'm one that thinks Barry Bonds

1603
01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:44,120
Speaker 1: has got to be put in, I would struggle with

1604
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 1: Rafael Palmerow and I'm talking, of course, by the steroid

1605
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:51,240
Speaker 1: guys and I struggle a little bit with Clemens because

1606
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:54,559
Speaker 1: I've always been what spugged me about Clemens. You know,

1607
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 1: I accept the premise that Bonds was a Hall of

1608
01:24:57,000 --> 01:25:01,160
Speaker 1: Famer before he started taking the clear and the whatever

1609
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:04,479
Speaker 1: it was lotion. How everyone to look at it? You know,

1610
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:07,559
Speaker 1: there was Bonds through nineteen ninety five, and then Bonds

1611
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:12,920
Speaker 1: the last you know, eight years of his career. Clemens

1612
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:15,960
Speaker 1: looked like a worn out pitcher when he left Boston.

1613
01:25:16,479 --> 01:25:20,599
Speaker 1: Suddenly was rejuvenated when he goes to Toronto. So I'm

1614
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:23,479
Speaker 1: I there's there's always I've just always had more questions,

1615
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:25,599
Speaker 1: That's all my say. I've just always had more questions here.

1616
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:28,920
Speaker 1: That said, whatever he figured out, then he was able

1617
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 1: to sustain it for a long period of time. But

1618
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:34,639
Speaker 1: let's not forget what one of the three words is

1619
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:38,200
Speaker 1: in Hall of Fame. Fame is Barry Bond's famous? Is

1620
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:41,240
Speaker 1: he one of the most famous baseball players? Yes? Is

1621
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:43,160
Speaker 1: Pete Rose famous? Is he one of the most famous

1622
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:45,800
Speaker 1: baseball players? Yes? Is Bob Bucher famous? Is he one

1623
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:47,880
Speaker 1: of the most famous baseball players? Yes? Now, Bob Buker

1624
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:50,760
Speaker 1: didn't have a Hall of Fame playing career, but what

1625
01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:53,519
Speaker 1: he did for baseball, and as a broadcaster, it puts

1626
01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:55,439
Speaker 1: him in there, right, You got to have him in

1627
01:25:55,479 --> 01:25:59,479
Speaker 1: there as because he belongs somewhere, because in the game

1628
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:02,240
Speaker 1: of baseball, he's there. And with the steroid guys, a

1629
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:05,519
Speaker 1: lot of them, they belong there. Now, I've always joked,

1630
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:08,519
Speaker 1: build a wing that sort of has a bull. Build

1631
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:12,120
Speaker 1: a wing of Cooperstown that bulges out of the building.

1632
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:16,760
Speaker 1: You know, go ahead, have the say it on the plaque.

1633
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:21,679
Speaker 1: But the idea that you ignore them. If Cooperstown should

1634
01:26:21,720 --> 01:26:25,240
Speaker 1: be that museum of the history of baseball, hard stop?

1635
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:29,559
Speaker 1: Do you just for ten ten years? Aren't there? Fifteen years?

1636
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:32,800
Speaker 1: Aren't there? With this dearth of players that we're not

1637
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:36,599
Speaker 1: going to put in? So look, I think we need

1638
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:41,080
Speaker 1: to I know, my baseball friends, my purest friends. Look,

1639
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:43,519
Speaker 1: I think the NFL Hall of Fame is in excuse me,

1640
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:45,960
Speaker 1: the football Fame. It's not the NFL Pro Football of Fame.

1641
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:48,040
Speaker 1: So it's like it's obviously not run by the NFL

1642
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:50,839
Speaker 1: the way they do it. I mean, at least baseball

1643
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:55,080
Speaker 1: is transparent with its writers. The convoluted nature of the

1644
01:26:55,479 --> 01:26:59,320
Speaker 1: nf of the Football Hall of Fame business is just ridiculous.

1645
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:03,439
Speaker 1: You don't. There's no accountability on voting. It's not clear.

1646
01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:06,680
Speaker 1: It's like these committees and it just you know, there

1647
01:27:06,680 --> 01:27:08,840
Speaker 1: are guys that don't make the Hall of Fame right away?

1648
01:27:09,080 --> 01:27:11,320
Speaker 1: How did that happen? Then there are guys that make

1649
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:15,400
Speaker 1: it quicker, and you're like, really, and they just it's

1650
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:20,880
Speaker 1: kind of their process is a mess and isn't very transparent.

1651
01:27:20,920 --> 01:27:22,840
Speaker 1: I wish it were. So we always nitpick the most

1652
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:26,080
Speaker 1: about the Baseball Hall of Fame because of the magic

1653
01:27:26,200 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 1: of numbers. Right it feels like it's the most meritocracy

1654
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:33,759
Speaker 1: of all the Hall of Fames because numbers have mattered

1655
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:36,840
Speaker 1: so much in baseball. But of course because of the

1656
01:27:36,840 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 1: steroid era, it has sort of screwed that, screwed that

1657
01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:45,679
Speaker 1: up a little bit. So anyway, I let's remember what

1658
01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:47,880
Speaker 1: one of the words is in these Hall of fames fame,

1659
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:52,519
Speaker 1: and let's not underestimate the importance of that when trying

1660
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:54,080
Speaker 1: to decide who's in the Hall of Fame. All Right,

1661
01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:56,639
Speaker 1: I'm going to shut up now. I appreciate it. Thank

1662
01:27:56,640 --> 01:28:00,280
Speaker 1: you for listening, Like and subscribe, give us that five

1663
01:28:00,320 --> 01:28:05,280
Speaker 1: star review. That especially let Apple know that you love

1664
01:28:05,320 --> 01:28:08,840
Speaker 1: the podcast, but you wish the feed were more reliable

1665
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:10,640
Speaker 1: when they were updated. Come on, Apple, let's get T

1666
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:12,960
Speaker 1: back together and with that until we upload again.