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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori

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Speaker 1: with you. Let me tell you about our guest, Sal Santoro,

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Speaker 1: co owner of The Crooked Path, which is a traditional

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Speaker 1: witchcraft shop located in Burbank, California. With more than thirty

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Speaker 1: years of experience, Sala's practice various occult systems has given

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Speaker 1: him the ability to combine these structures and systems for

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Speaker 1: practical ritual magic. His studies include traditional witchcraft, ceremonial magic,

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Speaker 1: planetary magic, voodoo, and spellcraft. Sal sees what he does

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Speaker 1: as math and no matter which religion you identify with,

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Speaker 1: you can always use your will to manifest change. Sal

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Speaker 1: Santoro on Coast to Coast, Sal, welcome to the program. Wow,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much, George. How are you doing to

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Speaker 1: make good? I'm looking forward to this. How did you

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Speaker 1: get involved in witchcraft and things like that? I grew

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Speaker 1: up back in New England and I found stereotypic. Well

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Speaker 1: you think of New England and witchcraft, but it really wasn't.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in the woods of New Hampshire and

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Speaker 1: one of my really dear friends and I both got

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Speaker 1: involved in about nineteen seventy nine to nineteen eighty, so

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Speaker 1: that would have put me in about fifteen years old,

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Speaker 1: and I just became really, you know, really into it

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Speaker 1: and I just wanted to know. I wanted more knowledge,

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Speaker 1: as much as I could get. And of course this

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Speaker 1: is pre Internet, so you know, I did what I

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Speaker 1: could and try to find what I you know, could

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Speaker 1: find out there in my limited abilities with like the

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Speaker 1: public library in New Hampshire or whatever. And by nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty five I moved to Los Angeles, California. And when

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Speaker 1: I moved to Los Angeles, it changed my life because

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Speaker 1: everything was available to me right there, and it started,

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Speaker 1: you know. I did my first internship in a Year

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Speaker 1: in a Day was a Wiccan group called the Druidic

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Speaker 1: Craft of the Wise have been in nineteen eighty nine

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Speaker 1: with a woman named Judith Defrayne, and I learned with them.

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Speaker 1: After that went on, I moved on to my second group,

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Speaker 1: and it was more along the Gardenerian tradition, still Wicca,

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Speaker 1: and I did a Year in a Day with that

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Speaker 1: group as well. And after that time I moved forward

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Speaker 1: and I joined the Golden Dawn, which is a ceremonial

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Speaker 1: magical order. I'm sure you know that, but you know

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Speaker 1: some some people don't. And it's an esoteric order that

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Speaker 1: is based kind of like combinations of the backgrounds of

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Speaker 1: some Rosicrucian work as well as connected to the Masonic lodges,

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Speaker 1: and it was it was first developed around eighteen sixty

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Speaker 1: in Britain, and that was where the first order started,

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Speaker 1: and it brought out people like Alistair Crowley, McGregor, Mathers,

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Speaker 1: Dion Fortune, people of this ilk the weights at the time,

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Speaker 1: that's right, Oscar Wilde, A E. Waite. There was a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that really were in that system at

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Speaker 1: that time, and so I found it by the early

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Speaker 1: nineties and I did my time with them. When I

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Speaker 1: actually left there, I ended up working at a very

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Speaker 1: famous occult shop in Hollywood called Pan Pipes. It was

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Speaker 1: then owned by a man named George Derby who had

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Speaker 1: a background in the Houdan systems as well as ceremonial magic.

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Speaker 1: And I was his like cleanup kid, you know. I

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Speaker 1: would go around and sweep the floors and like the

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Speaker 1: intern right, the intern right right, I was you know,

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Speaker 1: I was like to Jimmy Cricket and I went there

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Speaker 1: and I learned from him even more, and then my

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Speaker 1: systems just kept growing from that point, and you know,

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Speaker 1: moved forward a couple of you know, years, and now

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Speaker 1: I have a shop with my wife here in Burbank,

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Speaker 1: California for you. We'll talk about that shop at a moment.

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Speaker 1: But did it take time to try to convince people, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm a nice guy, I'm not evil, I'm not a Satanist.

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Speaker 1: You know, I practice Wiccan. I'm a witch. But you

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Speaker 1: know what you people are. You know, you've got the

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Speaker 1: wrong information about what we do. Did you have to

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Speaker 1: ever come across that? I think that, I mean more

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Speaker 1: so in the nineties for sure, But you know, during

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Speaker 1: that time, I you know, I left. I left Wicca.

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Speaker 1: I didn't stay through it my entire life. That because

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Speaker 1: remember Wicca is actually a religious system, right, and it

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Speaker 1: builds guils the duality of the feminine in the masculine,

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Speaker 1: using pagan usually pagan deities of Europe, old deities, and

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Speaker 1: the agricultural system with the wheel of the year and

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Speaker 1: then the movements of the moon, the lunar cycle. That

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Speaker 1: to me was beautiful in its system, but it limited

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Speaker 1: me to do work that I wanted to do. Um,

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Speaker 1: So I did leave it behind at one At one point,

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Speaker 1: um I and I've looked into different systems. I got

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Speaker 1: to meet Anton Lave actually, who was actually a really

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Speaker 1: really nice guy about it. I was just going to

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Speaker 1: say that a lot of people think otherwise. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: was a card He was. He was. I mean when

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Speaker 1: you hear about him being a carney, he actually was.

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Speaker 1: And he the only thing that he told me. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was so intimidated because you know, here I am

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Speaker 1: this young occultist and this guy walks into the shop

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Speaker 1: and he gave me one sentence. He told me, don't

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Speaker 1: be a parrot. That would be a parrot. That was

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Speaker 1: his advice. Yeah. Ye, And then he walked by, and

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Speaker 1: I was just like that stayed with me. You know,

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Speaker 1: what is Hollywood? You know, and you live in Los Angeles? Now,

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Speaker 1: what has Hollywood done to the impression of witches? I

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Speaker 1: mean I think back to The Wizard of Oz and

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Speaker 1: things like that, and then the TV show Bewitched, which

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Speaker 1: was a cute story of a witch. Sure, but you know,

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Speaker 1: Hollywood gives you the impression that, you know, witches are

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Speaker 1: running around, you know, turning kids into gingerbread and everything else. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I doubt only get that. Well, you know, Hollywood has

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Speaker 1: always I think they're actually more They're the cause of

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Speaker 1: what people see, of course, because we're so induced by

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Speaker 1: media and we see it so much and television shows

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Speaker 1: and you know, I always tell people it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the eighties when rock and roll was big, an

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Speaker 1: MTV was really huge, and we were dealing with the

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Speaker 1: PMRC and you know, heavy metal bands like Motley Crue

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Speaker 1: and all those guys, you know, they were they were

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Speaker 1: using all this flash occult vision choose to sell records,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of like Kissed It in the seventies, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or Black Sabbath Um. But you know, Hollywood got ahold

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Speaker 1: of it and they just they just milked it dry.

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Speaker 1: And you're still doing it. And it bothers me because

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Speaker 1: now I'm almost sixty. You know, I'm four years from

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Speaker 1: sixty years old. Well you don't sound it at all, Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you, good for you. Yeah, fifty six years old

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Speaker 1: this year, and you know it's like for me, it

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Speaker 1: really bothers me because so many people are are caught

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Speaker 1: up with what they're seeing in like shows like Sabrina

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Speaker 1: or American Horror Story you know, the sensational the sensationalism

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Speaker 1: of it all, and it really isn't it's just life.

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Speaker 1: It's it's living life and moving through it with a

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Speaker 1: certain concept on how you want to achieve certain things

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Speaker 1: in your life. Well, give me your definition, cell of

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Speaker 1: what a witch is. A witch, first of all, is

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Speaker 1: a non binary term. So it's not just a female.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a It's a person that uses the

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Speaker 1: herbs and oils and the elements of the earth and

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Speaker 1: their surroundings to cause change with their will by using spellcraft, incantation, oils,

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Speaker 1: and candles to work in the planetary magic structure, like

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Speaker 1: with color scale. So when you when you look at

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Speaker 1: witchcraft in the modern sense, we're not talking about Wika

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Speaker 1: because Wika is a religion in a but the act

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Speaker 1: of witchcraft is really based around a lot of planetary

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Speaker 1: magic systems. It's based around some of Ptolemaic structure and

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Speaker 1: the Caldian oracles, and it's also based also based around

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Speaker 1: Cabala because you know, people see the colors of the

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Speaker 1: planets that they're using. When you see somebody say, oh,

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Speaker 1: I need to burn this candle, and it's this color.

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Speaker 1: The reason that they're getting that color. It's actually from

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Speaker 1: one of the four worlds on the Tree of Life

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Speaker 1: and Cabala and they don't know that, but that's actually

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Speaker 1: where it comes from. And you you combine that with

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Speaker 1: the concept of these seven days in the week of

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Speaker 1: which was there seven ancient planets, not the modern planets

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Speaker 1: because they're considered errors in time, they're too far out

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Speaker 1: and intole amaze time. That's that's what they dealt with

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Speaker 1: on a daily level, and this is where the names

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Speaker 1: come from. And so you you key in on time

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Speaker 1: with color spectrum and herbs and oils that cross correlate

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Speaker 1: to those planets that you're trying to work with and

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Speaker 1: line it up to get the job done. How does

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Speaker 1: mathematics and science play a role in this? Well, when

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Speaker 1: when I think, what I was trying to say with

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Speaker 1: that was it's it's like math to me, it's it's

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Speaker 1: mathematical in itself. It's not dematria, which is a system

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Speaker 1: of magic through numbers. It's not that specifically, but it's

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Speaker 1: it's for me, it's like simple, simple mathematics. It's like

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Speaker 1: knowing what time of day to do this, working what

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Speaker 1: planet to bring into. So that's what I was trying

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Speaker 1: to get across when I said that. Okay, now you've

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Speaker 1: you've cast spells before for years. Yeah, good spells, bad

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Speaker 1: spells both. So now this is where you start getting

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Speaker 1: into um like thoughts of what's good, what's bad, what's up,

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Speaker 1: what's down? And you know, we're all I want to

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Speaker 1: believe that we're all raised well. I mean, I grew

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Speaker 1: up with parents. My father was on the on the

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Speaker 1: B twenty four Liberator in World War Two. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was raised in an Italian home on the East coast,

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Speaker 1: um with a good family, and I was brought up well,

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Speaker 1: and I brought was brought up to respect people and

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Speaker 1: do right by people. Um. You know. So with with that,

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Speaker 1: when when you have to decide the work that you're

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Speaker 1: doing magically, you have to follow what's inside you and

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Speaker 1: if it's right to be doing that, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: your compass within you and the way you are as

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Speaker 1: a person that decides whether something is bad or good.

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Speaker 1: There's a great occultist in the modern time, okay, named

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Speaker 1: Lawn Milegicet, and he wrote in one of his books

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Speaker 1: there is no black or white magic. There's just the

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Speaker 1: magician Lawn's been on the program before. He is a

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Speaker 1: huge I mean, he's a big deal for me. He's

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Speaker 1: an amazing man, you know what I mean. And that's

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Speaker 1: a quote from one of his books. It's true. It's

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Speaker 1: not black or white, it's it's the person. You know,

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Speaker 1: if the person is going to be doing something horrible

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Speaker 1: and malicious, then that would be deemed in that way

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Speaker 1: for sure, as being a darker act. Sure, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have to look at what's What is corrosion to

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Speaker 1: some people might not be to someone else. Some people

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Speaker 1: see doing a love spell on a person that they

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Speaker 1: already know is bending them to get to the advantage

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Speaker 1: that they want, right, But other people see it differently.

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Speaker 1: How much does karma have to do with us? Well?

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Speaker 1: I believe that that karma, you know, is a word

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Speaker 1: that I believe is kind of gets used wrong. I mean,

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Speaker 1: karma is a really important term in a lot of

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Speaker 1: Eastern systems and it but when people think of karma,

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Speaker 1: I think that they have this understanding that, oh, if

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Speaker 1: if I do something good today, something you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to get something good is going to come back.

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Speaker 1: If I don't bad, something's going to come back. See

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Speaker 1: this is the thing that I think is wrong because

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Speaker 1: you shouldn't be doing good or bad things to get

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Speaker 1: good to get a good badge. You should be doing

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Speaker 1: good things because you're a good person. And that's the

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Speaker 1: way we are to make the world move. We should

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Speaker 1: all be treating each other with that way. You see

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. The concept of karma being mixed into

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Speaker 1: an into an esoteric system, it's it's it's hard to

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Speaker 1: put your finger on, like in Wicca. When Wicca was

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Speaker 1: developed by Gerald Gardner in nineteen fifty six. You know,

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Speaker 1: he made that cohesive system off of utilizing components of

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Speaker 1: ceremonial magic and things like the golden dollars, people like

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Speaker 1: the unfortune and Crowley people like that, and then he

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Speaker 1: brought in the pagan gods of old and built it

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Speaker 1: around the wheel of the year, thus creating a new religion. Okay,

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Speaker 1: And when he did that, I mean, I might this

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Speaker 1: might upset some people out there, and you know, this

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Speaker 1: is just my view. I don't I don't impose my

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Speaker 1: views on anybody because it's it's not right. But I

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Speaker 1: believe that when you start stepping into that system and

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Speaker 1: they say, oh, if you do this, sewing at him.

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Speaker 1: None do what thou will. Okay, that's what That's a

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Speaker 1: term that Gardner phrased for the Wiccan system, which which

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Speaker 1: is actually a revamp of do what thou wilt shall

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Speaker 1: be the whole of the Law by Auster Crowley. And

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Speaker 1: you know, when you look at the two there are

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Speaker 1: obviously there's similarities, but they're different. But I believe that

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Speaker 1: you remember when when Gardner built this system, he was

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Speaker 1: a fictional writer, and when he built the system of WICCA,

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Speaker 1: we were just coming out of World War two. We

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Speaker 1: are coming in the in the United States specifically, we

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Speaker 1: were coming into McCarthyism, and everything was set up a

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Speaker 1: certain way and we were we were our boys were home,

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Speaker 1: and everything was was moving it in that in that

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Speaker 1: in that space and time. And I believe that when

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Speaker 1: he developed this system he didn't want people to think

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Speaker 1: that which meant bad, you know, because it has a

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Speaker 1: stamp on it, kind of like we're discussing earlier. And

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Speaker 1: I think that he did his best by creating sewing

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Speaker 1: that I'm none do without will to show people that

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Speaker 1: they were not unlike people that study or practice Western

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Speaker 1: systems of religion like Christianity, right, And I think that

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Speaker 1: that's where he was going. But that was kind of

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Speaker 1: like softening the blow so people could see that they

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Speaker 1: weren't malicious, they weren't these twisted chrone people. They weren't

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Speaker 1: they weren't desy its or being evil, you know, And

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Speaker 1: I think that it spoke a lot for that time.

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Speaker 1: But I think people now, I'm starting to understand it.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you when you have a store like

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Speaker 1: this ideal with parents anywhere between thirty five and sixty

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Speaker 1: that that are bringing their kids in the store now

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Speaker 1: to teach them things and to give them the right information,

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Speaker 1: did you give them choices? And you know, being a

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Speaker 1: kid growing up in the sixties and seventies, I didn't

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Speaker 1: have that. You know, a lot of us didn't. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we didn't. And I'm not knocking my parents at all.

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Speaker 1: They were They're amazing and both still live ninety seven

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Speaker 1: and ninety four. God's great. Yeah, they're they're great. They're

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Speaker 1: they've got their wits about them. They're great people. But

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Speaker 1: you know, they taught They just happened to teach me

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Speaker 1: in a certain way. You know, I was an ultra

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Speaker 1: boy in a Catholic church growing up. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: beautiful to me, it's it's so you know, after I

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Speaker 1: moved through the systems that I did, I realized that

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Speaker 1: witchcraft doesn't really mean that you worship a devil, where

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Speaker 1: you worship a god or a goddess specifically. Witchcraft is

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Speaker 1: just it's a science that well what you just said

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Speaker 1: is the most poignant thing about this most people, so

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Speaker 1: most people think when you talk about witchcraft, you're talking

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Speaker 1: about Satan or the devil, and that is so wrong.

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Speaker 1: But they all think that, I'll come the media, television movies.

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Speaker 1: You know, look a look at the movies of the seventies.

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Speaker 1: Every time there was a movie in the seventies and

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Speaker 1: the eighties, think of Rosemary's Baby, you know, there was

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Speaker 1: always a pentagram. And you know how long the up

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Speaker 1: into the nineties did people see that five pointed start

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Speaker 1: and either think it was a the sign of someone

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Speaker 1: of the Jewish faith or they thought it was the

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Speaker 1: devil that not many people really could wrap their head

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Speaker 1: around it other than that just meant something bad, you know,

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Speaker 1: just like the word occult meant something bad. Now not

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Speaker 1: many people realize that some of us do. But occult

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Speaker 1: is just knowledge that's hidden from view. It's esoteric knowledge,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of people I think confuse words like oh,

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Speaker 1: halt was cult, you know, because when you think of

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Speaker 1: this again, in the last in my lifetime, Jim Jones, um,

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Speaker 1: Charles Manson up everywhere. But that's not occultism. That was

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Speaker 1: a cult. The Moonies was another one. And the ones

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Speaker 1: that chase to Chase the stunt, remember the ones that

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Speaker 1: Heaven's Gate. Heaven's Gate people, Yeah, that's a cult. That's

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Speaker 1: not occultism. And I think that people just get scared

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Speaker 1: of the words, and I think through movies and things

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Speaker 1: like that, this is why people it for so long

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Speaker 1: were stuck in this being one thing. I mean, my

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Speaker 1: mother comes to my store and she's still is like,

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Speaker 1: isn't that Mike, No, And I have explained to her.

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Speaker 1: My mom's very open minded and is very great with

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Speaker 1: the whole thing. Now, you know, I've been, but she's

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Speaker 1: known I've been this way since you know, the early

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Speaker 1: early eighties. Listen to more Coast to coast Al every

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Speaker 1: weeknight at one a m. Eastern and go to Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast am dot com for more