1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: day M paranormal podcast network. Now get ready for another 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: episode of Shades of the Afterlife of Sandra Champlain. The 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: thoughts and opinions expressed by the host our thoughts and 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: opinions only, and do not necessarily reflect those of I 6 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: Heart Media, I Heart Radio, Coast to Coast a out, 7 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: employees of premier networks or their sponsors and associates. You 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: are encouraged to do the proper amount of research yourself, 9 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: depending on the subject matter and your needs. Hi, I'm 10 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, I've been on 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: a journey to prove the existence of life after death. 12 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: On each episode will discuss the reasons we now know 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: that our loved ones have survived physical death, and so 14 00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: we welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. If by sound 15 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: a little sleepy, I'm going to tell you why I 16 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: woke up this morning at five am from the most 17 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: bizarre dream. Now, what happened in the dream isn't important. 18 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: It stems back from my catering days and working. But 19 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: the dream was so real that I woke up and 20 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: I thought, thank goodness, it was just a dream. If 21 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: you're anything like me, we have a tendency to check email, 22 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: social media, and my brain was awake, so I decided 23 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: to do a little research. I was thinking about dreams, 24 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: which led me to thinking about stories I've heard about 25 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: people who have dreams before they pass away, which led 26 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: me about five ten am to a YouTube video with 27 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: palliative care physician Christopher Kerr, who wrote the book Death 28 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: Is But a Dream. In a little while, I'll play 29 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: for you a clip of the interview because it offered 30 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: something to me that I had never really thought of before. 31 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: He mentions a term called post traumatic growth. I've never 32 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: heard that before. And some of these dreams before death 33 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 1: people having an inventory of life, feeling like they are 34 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: intensely living, seeing, most often deceased loved ones that are 35 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: there to help them across the veil, and their fear 36 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: of death goes away. Even though I have been investigating 37 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: the afterlife for twenty five years and I fully know 38 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: the reality of it, there is something in my humanity 39 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: that's not ready to go, nor do I want to die, 40 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: and it's natural, I think, to have fear of the 41 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: dying process. It was early, like I said, five am, 42 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: but I feel so comforted in what I have discovered. 43 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: It's a new layer to things that I have discussed before. 44 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: But realizing that before death, we do a lot of sleeping, 45 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: we do a lot of natural life inventory. We dream 46 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: about people and our past, and most often find it 47 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: very hard to separate what's a dream and what's the reality. 48 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Coobler Ross, you may be familiar with that name. 49 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: A lot of people think that she created the five 50 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: stages of grief, and you might have heard these Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, 51 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: and acceptance. If you've ever grieved, you know there's more 52 00:03:55,040 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: than five stages, and they don't happen in any particular order. 53 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: Those five stages are from Elizabeth Coogler Ross, but they 54 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: were written and developed as the five stages of dying. 55 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: So let's go through them again. Denial, No, not me, 56 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: it can't be true. Then there's anger, that feeling of 57 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:26,119 Speaker 1: why me. There's bargaining, which one attempts to postpone their death, 58 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: thinking if I'm good and I do this and this, 59 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: can I live longer? And then there is a state 60 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: of depression, especially when people are reacting to an illness, 61 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: and then perhaps unfinished business. But then there's the state 62 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: of acceptance, the final rest before the long journey. And 63 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: with listening to Dr Christopher Kerr, I realized that this 64 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: acceptance can be because of the work that is done, 65 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: this life inventory and the dreams and getting to a 66 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: place of accepting one's life as it was with an 67 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: air of excitement because loved ones are there to greet us. 68 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: So in this episode, I want to share with you 69 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: some of those words I heard in the YouTube video 70 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: from Dr Christopher Kerr, and I was inspired to download 71 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: his book on Kindle Death Is But a Dream and 72 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: share with you some of these magnificent stories that talk 73 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: about this life inventory, this growth that we have looking 74 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: back on our lives, and how for most people, given 75 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 1: some time that you know you're dying, how the fear 76 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: of death goes away. Let me tell you first about 77 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: Christopher Kerr, and this is from his book. Christopher ker 78 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: m d, pH d is the Chief Medical Officer and 79 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: Chief Executive Officer for Hospice and Palliative Care Buffalo, New York. 80 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: Alongside direct patient care. Doctor Kerr's focus is in the 81 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: areas of leadership and patient advocacy. He has overseen the 82 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: integration and expansion of palliative care into hospitals and developed 83 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: a large home based program for both adults and children, 84 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: and has published on innovative program models that are designed 85 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: to better align patient and family services. Doctor Kerr's background 86 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: in research has evolved from bench science towards the human 87 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: experience of illness as witness from the bedside. Specifically, patients 88 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: dreams visions at the end of their life. Although medically ignored, 89 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: these near universal experiences often provide comfort and meaning, as 90 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: well as insight into life led and the death anticipated. 91 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: To date, the research team at Hospice and Palliative Care 92 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: Buffalo has published multiple studies on this topic and documented 93 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: over fifteen hundred end of life events, many of which 94 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: are videotaped. Doctor Kerr's work was published in a recent 95 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: book called Death Is But a Dream, Finding hope and 96 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: meaning at Life's end. Christopher Kerr is a hospice doctor. 97 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: All of his patients die, yet he has cared for 98 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: thousands of patients who, in the face of death, speak 99 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: of love and grace. Beyond the physical realities of dying 100 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: are unseen processes that are remarkably life affirming. These include 101 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: dreams that are unlike any other dream described as more 102 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: real than real. These end of life experiences resurrect past 103 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: relation ships, meaningful events, and themes of love and forgiveness. 104 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: They restore life's meaning and mark the transition from distress 105 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: to comfort and acceptance. Drawing on interviews with over four 106 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: d patients and more than a decade of quantified data, 107 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: Dr Kurrent reveals that pre death dreams and visions are 108 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: extraordinary occurrences that humanize the dying process. He shares how 109 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: his patients stories point to death as not solely about 110 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: the end of life, but as the final chapter of 111 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: humanity's transcendence. Beautifully written with astonishing real life characters and stories, 112 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 1: this book, at its heart is a celebration of our 113 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: power to reclaim the dying process as a meaningful one. 114 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: Death is but a dream is an important contribution to 115 00:08:55,320 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: our own understanding of medicines and humanity's great history. I'm 116 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: always fascinated with these deathbed vision stories, but I never 117 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: quite realized the transformation that can come to a life 118 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: at the end of life. We hear of life reviews, 119 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: don't we after we pass away and someone is called 120 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 1: to the light, and very often near death experiencers describe 121 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: reviewing their life in great detail, often from the perspective 122 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: of the people they impacted, not in a place of judging, 123 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: but in a place of understanding your behaviors and your actions. 124 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: I always think it's good as we live our life 125 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: to follow our moral compass, have integrity, be a person 126 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: of our word, make amends when need be, because we are, 127 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: after all, just human. We make mistake weeks. But if 128 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: we live life knowing that someday we will have this 129 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: life review, why not clean things up before we pass? 130 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: In listening to doctor Kerr's video this morning and also 131 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: doing some reading from his book with the suggestion that 132 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:27,199 Speaker 1: many people review their life on their deathbed, that may 133 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 1: mean that they don't have a life review once they transition. 134 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: Who knows. But think of the power when we can 135 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: live our life right now, being fully in the moment, 136 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: being responsible for the life as we've had it. And 137 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: if we can do that to not only not have 138 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: this life review when we pass, but also to have 139 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: that life review before we pass, looking back on our 140 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: life as one of appreciation and growth, as opposed to 141 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: oh I should have done this differently or done that differently. 142 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: Would it make more room for the loved ones to 143 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: arrive and the happier memories and the greater dreams. So 144 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: I want to investigate this in this episode. When we 145 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 1: come back from the break, I'm going to play that 146 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: clip from what I heard from Dr Kerr. I think 147 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: you're really going to enjoy that, and then we're going 148 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: to share some experiences that people had before they passed. 149 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: If you're interested in this, I want to recommend to 150 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: you just a few places you can find out more. 151 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: First of all, Dr Christopher ker dot com, so it's 152 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: d R Christopher k e r r dot com if 153 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: you are friendly. On YouTube, you can see a lot 154 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: of the videos of the recordings of him actually speaking 155 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: to patients about their dreams. And on YouTube, just do 156 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: a search for hospice and Palliative Care Buffalo. There's tons 157 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: of interviews of Dr Christopher Kerr you can look up 158 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: and read about. Also see his TED talk And I've 159 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: read that PBS has filmed a show about him and 160 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: his work. I haven't been able to find it, so 161 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: maybe that is coming soon. Also on this show, I 162 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: have talked about deathbed visions before, so if it's been 163 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: a while, scroll back through some of the earlier episodes, 164 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: so let's take our break and then we'll be back 165 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: with the words of Dr Kerr about how the end 166 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: of life transforms our life. Pretty great stuff. You're listening 167 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: to Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio 168 00:12:50,360 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: and Coast to Coast a M Paranormal podcast network. Keep 169 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: it here on the I Heart Radio and Coast to 170 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network. Sandra Champlain will be right back. 171 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: I'm George Nor. Thank you for listening to the I 172 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a UM paranormal podcast network. 173 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: You're listening to the I Heart Radio and Coast to 174 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: Coast a M Paranormal podcast network with the best shows 175 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: that explore the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained. You can 176 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: enjoy all shows on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 177 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Welcome back to 178 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sander Schamplain. What I'd like 179 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: to do now is play that YouTube clip that I 180 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: watched so early this morning. It is Dr Christopher Kerr 181 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: talking about the dreams, the healing, and the acceptance that 182 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: can happen at the end of one's life. Dying is 183 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: a singularly unique vantage point that inherently changes your perspective 184 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: um and your perceptions when you look beyond the veil 185 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: of the obvious, which is again this physical stability of 186 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: and symptology. And started asking people what they were experienced, 187 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: as you find out there's another thing happening. And what 188 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: I learned from my nonposician colleagues was that it was 189 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: very common for people at the end of their life 190 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: to have very intense dream vision experiences. UM dying is 191 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: essentially progressive sleep, so you're in and out of sleep states. 192 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: UM kind of got a foot in two worlds, and 193 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: people who even don't normally dream, we're reporting these very 194 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: good experience instance, and what impressed me was how profoundly 195 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: comforting they were, and they gave such meaning and kind 196 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: of what happened was I was trying to teach this 197 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: to medcal residents and students, and the response I got was, well, 198 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: there's no real evidence for us, and they kind of 199 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: put it in a bucket of confusion and whatever, and 200 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: it would really frustrating me because it clearly had me 201 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: into the patient of their loved ones. So originally I 202 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: did the research just to give it validity. So with 203 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: this a university modern research project, we had to rule 204 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: out confusion, um make sure people were cognitively intact aware 205 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: all those things that had to signed consents, and we 206 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: started interviewing them and uh, knowing that scene is believing, 207 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: we also started filming them. You know, shoot ahead twenty 208 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: years and you know, we published on seven eight papers 209 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: on it, a book, PBS documentary, and we're part of 210 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: a Netflix document series. And what's fascinating is there was 211 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: very little response in the medical world, but the non 212 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: medical world has gone around and around the world. This 213 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: wasn't true a hundred years ago, but the more medicines 214 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: being able to do the scientific revolution essentially from antibiotics 215 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: to imaging to interventions, has self amused the physician to 216 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: really become death defying and death denying. The oath in 217 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: medicine is to cure where possible, but to comfort always, 218 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: and I think we've clung to the one and not 219 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: the other. And it's how we educate and how we train. 220 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: And then you add to it that we become spot welders. 221 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: So you get sick and you can see a buffet 222 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: of six doctors, so everyone's there. It's very organ system based, 223 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: but even our economics of healthcare organ system base. So 224 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: you do things two parts and lose sight of the whole. 225 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: So it's not uncommon for us to have patients who 226 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: by multiple by every measure constitutionally are dying. I'll give 227 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: you an example, person with cancer hasn't eaten in three weeks. 228 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: They're dying. They do the imaging, and the imaging might 229 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 1: show disease progression, but it's really the burden of the 230 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: disease over the time and frailty to come into play. 231 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: So though it's not uncommon to see physicians prognosticating off 232 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: of a scan that doesn't consider looking at an organ, 233 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: but doesn't consider the body that the organs in for 234 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: the patient's wishes. So we lost our ability to look 235 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: at the totality, not only the person. What's happening happened 236 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: to them in the fullest sense, but what what considerations. 237 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: Some people are just tired. That's a lot of energy 238 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: to be uh to fight illness, and you're eight. You 239 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: can't get up anymore. You know, it's easier not to 240 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: do than to do. So if we treat numbers and 241 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: treat pictures and treat parts, you can miss the forest 242 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: for the trees. So we've done this with now hundred 243 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 1: patients and families, and in our first study we did 244 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: interviews of them daily, surveys of them daily until death, 245 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 1: so this is several weeks and months before that and 246 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: not the last moments when people are clearly often confused 247 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: um or deauctionated. And what they will tell you is, yeah, 248 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: I don't normally dream um. This was different. We asked 249 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: them to scale the realism of it is usually ten 250 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: out of ten they're virtual, like they've been lived. They 251 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: come out with a sense that they were it happened, 252 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: and of course they're thematically. The content is at random, 253 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: you know, overwhelmingly it's about people who they've loved and lost. 254 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: So we looked at this as people. What changes occurred 255 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: as people who got closer to death, and what happened 256 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: is they stopped dreaming of everyday events and started experiencing 257 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: people who were most important to them and time didn't 258 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: seem to matter. So they could have lost a parent 259 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: eight decades ago, but they were tangible to them very little. 260 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: As said, they don't need a lot of interpretation. They're 261 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: not looking for metaphor. They're just given an understanding, and 262 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: the predominant themes are themes of love. The people who 263 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: condition their love are often removed, so it could be 264 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: one parent present, not another um. Whatever injury you had, 265 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: um that could be lost, a child that comes back 266 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: to We've had a many veterans who had survivor's guilt 267 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: that gets addressed. We've all been harmed and when we 268 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: were the other for having lived, and we seem to 269 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: get put back together through these experiences, and so the 270 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 1: life you lead gets kind of validated. Adversely, the fear 271 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: of death seems to lessen. And when we asked them 272 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: to measure comfort from these experiences, whether they're company and discompany, 273 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: the actual comfort level goes up, so as that as 274 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: I approached death, So there's an increase in frequency, intensity 275 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: and the comfort given. About six people have a non 276 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: comfort experience. But it's really interesting is those are often 277 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 1: the most transformational or meaningful. I'll give you an example. 278 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: We had a guy who was in his forties who 279 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: has spent most of his life in and out of 280 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: in prison, more in prison than out. He had drug 281 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 1: addictions and he had had a neck cancer, and he 282 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 1: was dreaming and we caught this on film by accident. 283 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: Really we're just interviewing from another topic and he's Joe 284 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: came was very jovial. He's one of these guys who 285 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: couldn't afford to live with wi grat or look backwards. 286 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: And then he starts crying because he's having these horrible dreams. 287 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: He's being stabbed by all the people he's hurt out 288 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: the sight of his cancer and he breaks down. But 289 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: then when he comes out of it, he asked to 290 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: see a daughter that he wanted to express his love 291 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: towards and apologize, and after that he slept. So these 292 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: dreams don't deny life. Um. We had a mother who's worthless, 293 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: questioned as because two of her kids were in prison 294 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: for tread related offenses, and in her end of life, 295 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: she's back in her home in Puerto Rico and her 296 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: parents come to her and tell her what a good 297 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: mother and what a good person she was. So again 298 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: they're not denying that bad things and painful things transpire, 299 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: but they addressed them and suthed them in a way 300 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: that's very interested. Um. I talked about the most powerful 301 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 1: one in my ted talk to where a guy he 302 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: had been involved in the invasion of Normandy, and his 303 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: whole life had been he had been suffered with PTSD. 304 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: He never got help, and he kept it all to himself. 305 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: His wife knew because he'd scream in the night, and 306 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: so he came into our unit at the end of 307 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: his life because he was having such her off experiences 308 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: where he's seen body parts and bloody water and screams, 309 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: and he couldn't rest. He can't die really unless you 310 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: can sleep. It's pretty hard to do because you're to 311 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: passive sleep. So he couldn't sleep. And then one day, 312 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 1: going to see him, he's he slept and I said, 313 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: it's a dream about he was in our study. He goes, well, 314 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: I had a great dream, he said, where I relived 315 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: the best day of my life, which was the day 316 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: he got his discharged papers. And he said, and I 317 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: had a really good dream, he said. I was on 318 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: a beach, presumably Normandy, and a soldier who he didn't 319 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: know came up to him and said, now we're going 320 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: to come and get you. So that sense of that 321 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 1: he abandoned people had kind of gone full circle. And 322 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: he slept peacefully after that, and he died peacefully. This 323 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: whole notion, first of all, that their year passive to 324 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: the process where there's nothing to be learned from a 325 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: negative experience. This isn't true. So we took dying and 326 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: there's actually an inventory to measure, something called post traumatic growth. 327 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: So the idea, for example, you go into war and 328 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: we all the negatives are obvious, but is there positive 329 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: elements to it? And that's what we found in dying. 330 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: So people who are who are dying, who are having 331 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: these experiences, when compared to people who weren't, we're adapting, 332 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: we're learning, we're gaining insight, and it was measurable right 333 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: up until the very end. So yeah, there's this other 334 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: side to it. Basically, because you're dying doesn't mean you've 335 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,719 Speaker 1: stopped living, and you do intense living in that latter period. 336 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: It kind of makes sense, and you go, you knew 337 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: you were dying. Your worries and focus and concerns are 338 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: on affairs and other people and your own mortality. But 339 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 1: if you actually get close to it, you're looking back 340 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: on the life you've left and you're extracting from it. 341 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: The things that come to surface are actually overwhelmingly positive, 342 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: a firm life. Rather than deny it, they don't deny death. 343 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 1: That's what's really interesting, nobody. They don't come out of 344 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: these experiences so you're you're not dying. You're you're dying, 345 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: but you're doing so with a better sense of meaning. 346 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: We didn't measure fear per se. What comes out in 347 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: abundance is they're not fighting the dying of the light stuff. 348 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 1: They're actually trying to get towards, not away from so um. 349 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: There's a great lady in the video who had lost 350 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: her daughter and her husband, and you know, days before death, 351 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: she's just sitting around the kitchen table. Nobody's talking, but 352 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: she feels them and it gave her a sense of 353 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: warmth that was beyond description, and you know that's what 354 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 1: she wanted to return to. They just are left with 355 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 1: a sense of knowing, a sense of love, of being 356 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: put back together, of reacquainted with their loved one, what 357 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: have you. They've gone through a period of accepting their mortality, 358 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: the finality of their life. If I was hearing this 359 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: on the outside, you think we must be the most 360 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: depressed people in the world. Were the best depressing, it's 361 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: actually the opposite. You'd find the place oddly uplifted, full 362 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 1: of humor. There's undeniable sadness, particularly in unfinished lives. You know, 363 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: a young parent leaving choice, and we care for three 364 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: kids a day. But you know, we're also enormously privileged 365 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 1: to witness participate in the care of patients along with 366 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 1: their loved ones. And what we see on the caregiving 367 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: side is the best of our nature. We see people 368 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: finding courage to care for their loved one in ways 369 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: they couldn't imagine. It's heroic. We think of caregiving in 370 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: terms of burden, but we actually see is remarkable. It's 371 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: not easy, and what we here and see it's the 372 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,479 Speaker 1: best hardest thing they've ever done. I can totally relate 373 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: to the best and hardest thing I've ever done when 374 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: my thought their past. So let's go to the break 375 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: and we'll be back. You're listening to Shades of the 376 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast, 377 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: a m paranormal podcast network. Don't go anywhere. There's more 378 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: Shades of the Afterlife coming right up. Hey, it's the 379 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: Wizard of Weird Joshua Pee Warren. Don't forget to check 380 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: out my show Strange Things. Each week as I bring 381 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: you the world of the truly amazing and bizarre right 382 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: here on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast, 383 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: a m paranormal podcast network. Welcome back to Shades of 384 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: the Afterlife. I'm Sandra shall Plane. I found the Buffalo 385 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 1: Spree magazine had an article about Christopher Kerr's life written 386 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: by Sally Cunningham, and I just want to read a 387 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: little bit about it. She's talking to him about his book, 388 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 1: but there's some really good nuggets of information here. So 389 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: talking about Dr Kerr, he was born in Canada, but 390 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: came to Buffalo, New York as a cardiologist, first moonlighting 391 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: for Hospice Buffalo to pay some bills. He recalls himself 392 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: an inexperienced but confident young resident approaching the charge nurse 393 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: to recommend fluids and meds for a forty year old 394 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: end stage AIDS patient to buy him some more time. 395 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: The charge nurse, Nancy knew better. She said, too late, 396 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 1: he's dying. He's been dreaming about his dead mother. Chuckling inwardly. 397 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: The young doctor thought that sounded crazy and replied, I 398 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,239 Speaker 1: don't remember that class from medical school. Nancy put him 399 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: in his place, son, you must have missed a lot 400 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: of classes. The writer says that story illustrates a broad 401 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: gap in the ways we approach dying in the United States, 402 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: both medically and socially, as described in Doctor at All 403 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: Gwandhi's bestseller Being Mortal. The medical profession has excelled at 404 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: managing diseases, repairing body parts, and extending life, but doctors 405 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: often withdraw when there's nothing more we can do. The 406 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: tendency is to duck or disdain choices that supports spiritual 407 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: needs and the quality of lives that are ending. Doctor 408 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: Kerr phrases it, in many ways, we have lost our 409 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: way in dealing with dying. It is easier now to 410 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: live longer than to die well. After learning from Nurse 411 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: Nancy and other dedicated people, he committed his life's work 412 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: to palliative care. There are three common things that dominate dreams, 413 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: Curse said about his research. First, traveling, preparing to go somewhere. 414 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: One third of his interviewees reported travel as a recurring theme, 415 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: whether or not the person had traveled much in life. 416 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: Destinations were usually undefined. The patients took trains, planes, taxis, buses, 417 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: and cars. Others started walking, even attempting to leave their beds. 418 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: Many reported that deceased loved ones arrived to pack up suitcases, 419 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: saying things like we'll come back for you soon. Next 420 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: is seeing departed loved ones. As death neared, Reporters found 421 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: that dreams of the deceased began to win over dreams 422 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: of the living. Some dreams recalled people who had been 423 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: nearly forgotten. Long repressed memories re emerged. Stillborn babies came 424 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: back to their mother's arms, relatives visited who had died 425 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: decades ago, and long lost pets cuddled in their hospital beds. 426 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: Children especially found solace in joyful reunion with deceased pets. 427 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: Widowed men and women were often reunited, as in the 428 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: story of Joan and Alfred. Just after their fifty seventh anniversary. 429 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: Alfred died, and soon Joan was seeing him in her 430 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: room and calling out, Alfred, come get me. She went 431 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: to join him within two months. In a similar story, 432 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: eighty nine year old Beverly danced again in dreams of 433 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: her ballroom dancing husband, every detail clear, even the colors 434 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: of her dresses. The dream Researchers reported that most of 435 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: the patient's dreams produced emotional healing or resolution, even when 436 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: relationships had been destructive. Or hateful feeling forgiveness towards oppressors 437 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: or seeking forgiveness from victims is typical to be seen 438 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: in the future public television special. One Unforgettable patient named 439 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: Dwayne had lived on the street, hurt many people, and 440 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: been incarcerated. Toward the end. He wept, saying he'd been 441 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: a sick and terrible person and acknowledged that the bad 442 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: things all caught up with me. But something remarkable happened. 443 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: He became a good father, giving peace and comfort to 444 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,239 Speaker 1: his daughter who had suffered greatly. After bad lives are 445 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: good ones, people seemed to find near death dreams as 446 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: great equalizers. Next is remembering trauma, war abuse, horror dreams 447 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: towards the end of life maybe nightmares, especially for those 448 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: who suffered trauma in war or in a terrible personal circumstance. John, 449 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: a World War Two veteran who had survived Omaha Beach, 450 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: had never spoken of the trauma until his last weeks, 451 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: when he vividly relived the horrors in a true state 452 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: of terror. Over many nights, he saw and spoke of 453 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: floating limbs in the water, a bloody beach strewn with bodies, 454 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: and nothing but death. Dead soldiers all around me undesirable 455 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: As that experience sounds something that would normally cause one 456 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: to take mind numbing drugs, it actually resulted in a 457 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: great transformation. John finally had dreams of reward, which was 458 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: his friends coming to take him safely. He found peace. 459 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: In kurs book Death Is But a Dream, page fifty nine, 460 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: the author summarizes John's story exemplifies the process through which 461 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: even the most difficult dreams can provide substantial psychological or 462 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: spiritual benefits to the dying patient. Why are these dreams 463 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: not just brain cells malfunctioning the equivalent of drug induced 464 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: to loosen nations or clues to bodily breakdown. The hospice 465 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: and palliative care team has answered this question consistently. First, 466 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: these dreams are reported as absolutely real. Even when interviewers 467 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: ask the dreamers to report the level of reality on 468 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: a scale of one to ten, the tens were the norm. 469 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: They had no doubt. Second, the experience of the hospice 470 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: patient's dreams is qualitatively different from hallucinations. In delirium, people 471 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: are often agitated and terrorized, so different from the clear 472 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: dreams reported here. And then here are some questions the 473 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: interviewer gave doctor Kerr after reading Death Is But a 474 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: Dream and seeing the Ted talk and video, I visited 475 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: doctor Kerr on his farm where he relaxes with his 476 00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: dogs and horses. She asked him where does religion come from? 477 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: How many patients are concerned about heaven and Hell or God? 478 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: He said, really not the case. Hospice has a wonderful 479 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: chaplain and nondenominational, non judgmental approach to all spiritual beliefs. 480 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: But beyond institutional religion, remember that all religions are first spiritual, 481 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,839 Speaker 1: and the basic tenets of religion are love and forgiveness. 482 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: So even cross culturally we may be saying the same thing. 483 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: At the end of life. Most people's concerns go back 484 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: to everyday life, family, love, pets. Death is a full 485 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: circle inclosing the whole human experience. We die as we lived. 486 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: Next question, why do you think the medical community often, 487 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 1: perhaps typically, disengages in the end of life spiritual processes? 488 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: He answers, medical training doesn't include these topics mostly, and 489 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 1: the systems we've set up, the huge body of medicine 490 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: that doctors must absorb the time available. It all contributes 491 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: to a brushing aside an avoidance of the spiritual aspect 492 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: of dying. Next question, what do you want to tell 493 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: family members and partners about hearing of their loved ones 494 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: dreams and concerns. He answers, listen, be present, don't invalidate, 495 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: don't correct, don't say they're hallucinating, except that spiritual and 496 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: emotional changes are at least as important as physical decline, 497 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: and don't interpret. The time for therapy is past and 498 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: may feel awkward to talk or hear about death, but 499 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: just be there for them. What do you think about 500 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: people dying at home versus in an institution or hospital? 501 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: The answer, some people require a medical facility. Isolation is 502 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: the worst suffering for dying people. That can happen at 503 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,919 Speaker 1: home too, so there may be times that an institution 504 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: is more supportive. It's an individual situation, so family should 505 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: talk about it. Next question, what about telling a dying 506 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: person and he says the truth about the time left 507 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: and pending death. People want to know and have the 508 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 1: right to know. Families often want to spare the dying 509 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: person the truth as if it's comforting. Usually the patient 510 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: knows anyways, But we see the worst deaths in people 511 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: who didn't know it was coming, even rage a feeling 512 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 1: of abandonment and betrayal. I have observed children, especially coming 513 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: to terms matter of factly about their mortality and then 514 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: moving on to enjoy the time that they have left. 515 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: Tell people the truth. Death is but a dream. Is 516 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: a book and topic for the living. It is neither 517 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: depressing nor sad to read or view the stories and 518 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: interviews with hospice patients. Humans often live as if death 519 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: is out there, somewhere far away, and many in our 520 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: culture treat the subject as taboo. But these patients and 521 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: their dreams suggest otherwise. None of us will avoid the 522 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: death of loved ones, and we are all going to 523 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: pass through that stage ourselves. Let us embrace the end 524 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: of life experience in all of its richness, unforgettably, a 525 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: ninety year old patient named Patricia in the videos and 526 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: books says, dying is the most interesting thing I've ever done. 527 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 1: She had a rich and varied life, but her pre 528 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: death experience was equally as exciting. She lamented that now 529 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 1: nobody wants to talk about it. Fortunately Dr Christopher Kerr 530 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: and his team did and we can all benefit. Wow, 531 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: those are some good words from the dying for the living. 532 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: I have to be honest with you. When I first 533 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 1: started this episode, I thought I was going to tell 534 00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: you lots of stories of deathbed visions. But after reading 535 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: what I have to you and hearing the audio clip 536 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: from Dr Christopher Kerr, I realize that what was said 537 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: in this episode is so important. I've been on this 538 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,839 Speaker 1: journey over twenty five years, like I've said, and I've 539 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: never heard about these dreams. I heard them as though 540 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,839 Speaker 1: loved ones come to visit, but not the transformation that 541 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 1: can happen at the end of our life and the 542 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: joy that can come and the closure two things. And 543 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: like this last lady said, it's the most exciting time 544 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: of her life. You may ask what happens to people 545 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,760 Speaker 1: that die suddenly, that didn't have time to prepare for death. 546 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: I know that they get greeted with loving arms and 547 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: they are taken care of. Truly they are. I've got 548 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: a little piece of good news for you coming up 549 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: in the next segment, So let's take our break. We'll 550 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,839 Speaker 1: be right back. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife 551 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM 552 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: Paranormal Podcast Network. Don't go anywhere. There's more Shades of 553 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: the Afterlife coming right up. Thanks for listening. Keep it 554 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 1: here on the I Heart Radio on Coast to Coast, 555 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: a M paranormal podcast network. You're listening to the I 556 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast, a M paranormal podcast network. 557 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: Heard on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 558 00:39:45,280 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: wherever you find your favorite shows. Welcome back to Shades 559 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,919 Speaker 1: of the Afterlife. I'm Sander Champlain and we are talking 560 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: about the wonderful Dr Christopher ker his book Death Is 561 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,880 Speaker 1: But a Dream. And I told you I have some 562 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,919 Speaker 1: good news. Yes I do well. First I mentioned that 563 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 1: you can go to YouTube. You can find his ted talk. 564 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: You can also search on YouTube Buffalo Palliative Care and 565 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 1: see many videos. You can look up Christopher Kerr on YouTube, 566 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: see lots of interviews. You can pick up a copy 567 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: of his book, Death Is But a Dream. But here's 568 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 1: the good news. I found out that there was a 569 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 1: eighty minute PBS television special that was being created on 570 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: the work of Christopher Kerr. And from this morning when 571 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 1: I started recording this episode until now, I have finally 572 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: found where we can watch it. Go to Death Is 573 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 1: But a Dream dot com Death Is But a Dream 574 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:14,799 Speaker 1: dot com. You can purchase for currently a copy of 575 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 1: the video and watch it yourself, filled with stories and 576 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: meeting some of the patients and hearing their testimonials. So 577 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: I'm very excited about that. On this last segment together, yes, 578 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: I will be telling you some stories and reading from 579 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: the book. But I want to give you another hint. 580 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:41,720 Speaker 1: Any time you are on YouTube and you watch something 581 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 1: about deathbed visions or any other afterlife topic like near 582 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: death experiences, look in the comments. There are tons of 583 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 1: people who tell their stories of what happened when their 584 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,800 Speaker 1: loved one past and the people that were there to 585 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,359 Speaker 1: greet them. I know there's not too much time that 586 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,959 Speaker 1: we have left here together on this show today, so 587 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 1: what I read to you is just a sample from 588 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:15,360 Speaker 1: Death Is But a Dream by Christopher Kerr. Frank's advanced 589 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 1: age and frailty disguised the remarkable agility of his mind. 590 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: He had been admitted with severe congestive heart failure, but 591 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,359 Speaker 1: at he was still completely aware of his surroundings and 592 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: loved a good conversation. He had collected encyclopedic bits of 593 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,319 Speaker 1: baseball lore the way others do treasured objects, and he 594 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,719 Speaker 1: could talk the game like no one else. He could 595 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: recount of the sports development from the very beginning of 596 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 1: the professional leagues. He reminisced about players, teams, seasons, and 597 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: incidents in the game's history. He remembered the first televised 598 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 1: major baseball game in nineteen thirty nine, and could name 599 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: the baseball legends as well as the not so famous. 600 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,240 Speaker 1: He boasted the accuracy of the stats he had developed 601 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 1: for seasons that players had not yet played. His passion 602 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 1: for the sport had clearly sustained him since childhood, and 603 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: he still derived intense satisfaction from it. Yet, despite his 604 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: recall and engagement, when Frank closed his eyes to rest, 605 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 1: his room became crowded with dead relatives that only he 606 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 1: could see. This was a reoccurring phenomena, and one I 607 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 1: knew better than to mistake for the manifestation of a 608 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,440 Speaker 1: broken mind. I remember the day I was summoned to 609 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 1: Frank's bedside because he was demanding medication to help him rest. 610 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: That morning, he had greeted his nurse Pam with a 611 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 1: roaring where is my damned doctor? Frank was so agitated 612 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,480 Speaker 1: that before I entered his room, Pam cautioned me that 613 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,440 Speaker 1: he was particularly cranky that day. Frank had been a 614 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,879 Speaker 1: steel worker and was most comfortable bending things to his will, 615 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: me included. I went in to ask how he was doing, 616 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,880 Speaker 1: and he shot up in bed, exclaiming, I can't sleep. Look, Doc, 617 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,279 Speaker 1: it's been great to see my uncle Harry, but I 618 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,640 Speaker 1: wish he'd shut up. Turns out Uncle Harry has been 619 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:28,400 Speaker 1: dead for forty six years. During the final stages of dying, 620 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:33,320 Speaker 1: the pull to sleep is typically strong, deep, and soothing. 621 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:39,280 Speaker 1: The sporadic wakefulness that at times interrupts it looks increasingly 622 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: like slumber. Sometimes this trend takes an unexpected turn. The 623 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,200 Speaker 1: slow drift comes to a halt as the sleep awake 624 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: state is flooded with intense and lifelike dreams and visions. 625 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,680 Speaker 1: The exhausted patient is not always ready for this turn 626 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 1: and may react to it in a surprising way. Frank 627 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,480 Speaker 1: certainly did. Three days before his passing, he was slipping 628 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 1: in and out of consciousness when he suddenly cried out 629 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: in wonder, I am in nineteen twenty seven? I am 630 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: a boy? How did they do that? His dreams and 631 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: visions were so true to life that he was compelled 632 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 1: to inquire about the behind the scenes workings of the 633 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:30,920 Speaker 1: magic trick that was creating this illusion of time travel. 634 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,399 Speaker 1: He did not doubt that what he had seen had 635 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:39,799 Speaker 1: taken place. Instead, he assumed that trickery must have been 636 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: involved to make this possible. His body was shutting down, 637 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,399 Speaker 1: but his mind had not yet lost its foothold. In consciousness, 638 00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:53,239 Speaker 1: he knew where and who he was, but continued to 639 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:59,240 Speaker 1: identify what he was experiencing as an alternate reality. In truth, 640 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:04,200 Speaker 1: he had a foot in two worlds, only one of 641 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:10,080 Speaker 1: which we shared. Over time, Frank's inner world experiences returned 642 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,319 Speaker 1: him to what he treasured most in life, his wife's love. 643 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,400 Speaker 1: The more he dreamt of her, the more he felt 644 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,800 Speaker 1: her presence, and the more peaceful he became. He finally 645 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:28,320 Speaker 1: requested that we discontinued treatment. His decision to decline care 646 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:33,759 Speaker 1: was medically appropriate, As is so often the case, patients 647 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 1: recognize medical futility before their physician does, and in a sense, 648 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 1: release the doctor from an obligation that can no longer 649 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:49,640 Speaker 1: be honored. Frank wanted to join Ruthie in heaven. We 650 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:54,239 Speaker 1: helped him reach comfort for this much awaited reunion, and 651 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: he died with the integrity He had lived and created. 652 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,000 Speaker 1: When ninety one year old Anne was admitted to our 653 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:07,439 Speaker 1: impatient facility with congestive heart failure, she was having such 654 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 1: clear visions of her long deceased sister that, upon waking 655 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,680 Speaker 1: one day, she looked around and asked where is Emily. 656 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:19,439 Speaker 1: Emily had been dead sixteen years, but to Anne, her 657 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,800 Speaker 1: presence and appearances were as real as her doctor's. Anne 658 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:29,080 Speaker 1: was subsequently admitted to our impatient unit and acute respiratory distress, 659 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,719 Speaker 1: where she woke up, stared up at the ceiling, and 660 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,320 Speaker 1: acted as if she was seeing things that were not there. 661 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,680 Speaker 1: At one point, she sat up in bed and stretched 662 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,320 Speaker 1: her arms out to the ceiling as if to embrace someone. 663 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,239 Speaker 1: She asked her family, am I going to die now? 664 00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:50,320 Speaker 1: When her condition improved, she awoke, looking around and asked 665 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:54,799 Speaker 1: again for her dead sister, explaining that Emily had been 666 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,240 Speaker 1: there all along, sitting next to her on her bed. 667 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,200 Speaker 1: Anne also we ported having frequent dreams of a more 668 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:06,920 Speaker 1: youthful Emily going about doing the usual things around the house. 669 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:13,000 Speaker 1: She described her sister's appearance in detail, the strong jutting chin, 670 00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,880 Speaker 1: the dark blonde hair pulled up in a high, loose bun, 671 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,879 Speaker 1: the sagging pea green cotton jersey dress whose sleeves were 672 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:26,359 Speaker 1: rolled carelessly at the elbows. Sometimes Emily put her hand 673 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,400 Speaker 1: over her mouth and laughed before moving on to the 674 00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,239 Speaker 1: next task at hand. Few words were uttered, but the 675 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:38,720 Speaker 1: dreams were heartwarming and invigorating, and Anne often envisioned herself 676 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,200 Speaker 1: as much younger and going for walks with her sister. 677 00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,000 Speaker 1: She had been one of five siblings, but she was 678 00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,799 Speaker 1: closest to Emily, who had raised her. I am not 679 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,760 Speaker 1: going alone, Emily will be with me, she insisted. Most 680 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:59,080 Speaker 1: of our patients pre death dreams and visions staged meaningful 681 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:03,960 Speaker 1: reunions with the ceased loved ones. Doris, however, seemed to 682 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:08,560 Speaker 1: be experiencing freedom from those bonds. She had dreams of 683 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:13,719 Speaker 1: flying through the air above crowds and buildings, unimpeded and 684 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:18,680 Speaker 1: free from fear. This was one of the most exhilarating 685 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,480 Speaker 1: feelings she had ever experienced. It made her feel so 686 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:27,160 Speaker 1: empowered that had conjured up images of superhero like power. 687 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,160 Speaker 1: I am flying. I can just push my feet and 688 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,839 Speaker 1: take off, so I said to everyone around me. All 689 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,400 Speaker 1: you have to do is have faith the size of 690 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:41,440 Speaker 1: a mustard seed, and you can go too, but I 691 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,040 Speaker 1: was the only person in the world who could fly 692 00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:48,600 Speaker 1: around on top of mountains anywhere, looking down at all 693 00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:53,400 Speaker 1: these people in those buildings. Doris dreamt of being waitless 694 00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:59,280 Speaker 1: among undifferentiated crowds, and she found this state so joyful 695 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,040 Speaker 1: she didn't want to wake up from that one. The 696 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,239 Speaker 1: dream concluded with her witnessing a winged angel flying through 697 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,759 Speaker 1: a church's stained glass window, to the amazement of the 698 00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:16,880 Speaker 1: crowd of onlookers. The story with Doris continues quite a while. 699 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 1: She was a woman who had a very tough childhood, 700 00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:26,879 Speaker 1: never experienced love, and it's quite sad the life that 701 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,239 Speaker 1: she led, never having freedom. You'll be happy to know 702 00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:37,000 Speaker 1: that not only did she experience freedom of flying, but 703 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,400 Speaker 1: the love that she never felt while on earth. She 704 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:47,520 Speaker 1: had the dreams and had a beautiful, beautiful experience of 705 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:52,560 Speaker 1: love before she passed. So many great stories. I'm excited 706 00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,840 Speaker 1: to keep reading the book myself Death Is But a 707 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,080 Speaker 1: Dream and also go to Death Is But a Dream 708 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:03,240 Speaker 1: dot com and watch that film. I hope you've enjoyed 709 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:07,920 Speaker 1: this episode as much as I have. As always, come 710 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,440 Speaker 1: visit me on one of our Sunday gatherings or something 711 00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:16,160 Speaker 1: else we do online. Go to We Don't Die dot com. 712 00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,920 Speaker 1: If you are experiencing grief, go to the store page, 713 00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:24,320 Speaker 1: scroll down, find that We Don't Die, a skeptics Discovery 714 00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:28,040 Speaker 1: of Life after Death audio book, and be my guest 715 00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:32,160 Speaker 1: and use coupon code of free. The information about the 716 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:36,520 Speaker 1: afterlife is great, but I think we all need to 717 00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:40,759 Speaker 1: know how to navigate through grief. And speaking of navigation, 718 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:45,400 Speaker 1: I couldn't be happier to learn about the dying process. 719 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,640 Speaker 1: It's something to be excited for. Hard to believe I'm 720 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,560 Speaker 1: saying that, but I truly am Death is but a dream. 721 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,160 Speaker 1: Our loved ones will be there greeting us. Sounds like 722 00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:01,520 Speaker 1: we can have some extraordinary vision of what's to come 723 00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,359 Speaker 1: and who will be with us. We've got a life 724 00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:08,479 Speaker 1: to live here first, but we won't be afraid. I'm 725 00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,600 Speaker 1: Sander Samplain. Thank you for listening to Shades of the 726 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,840 Speaker 1: Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast 727 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:21,600 Speaker 1: d a M paranormal podcast network. And if you like 728 00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,360 Speaker 1: this episode of Shades of the Afterlife, wait until you 729 00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,880 Speaker 1: hear the next one. Thank you for listening to the 730 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:28,880 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast d a a M 731 00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:30,680 Speaker 1: paranormal podcast network