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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema rewind. This is Rob Lamb.

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Speaker 1: We're on a bit of a summer break here, so

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Speaker 1: we have some extra weird House Cinema rewinds for you.

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Speaker 1: This one is going to be coverage of John Frankenheimer's

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six psychological horror film Seconds, starring Rock Hudson,

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Speaker 1: with cinematography by the legendary James Wong Hoo. Originally published

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Speaker 1: six nine, twenty twenty three. Oh, you're gonna enjoy this one.

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Speaker 1: It's it's darker and deeper than you might expect.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your mind, A production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to Weird House Cinema. My name is

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Speaker 1: Rob Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick. And today on the show,

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Speaker 3: we're going to be talking about a movie from nineteen

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Speaker 3: sixty six, a film called Seconds, directed by John Frankenheimer.

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Speaker 3: And I was trying to think. I was trying to

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Speaker 3: think what to call it. Would you call this a

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Speaker 3: science fiction thriller or a philosophical horror thriller? This really

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Speaker 3: does defy genres in a way.

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Speaker 1: It really does. I mean, you can see there are

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Speaker 1: elements of conspiracy drama, the conspiracy thriller. There there are

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Speaker 1: elements of sci fi and horror, but it's not really

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Speaker 1: any of those things. It is deeply psychological in many respects,

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Speaker 1: so you might say it's psychological ab or c. But

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Speaker 1: any attempt to pin this film down is going to

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Speaker 1: miss something crucial, I think.

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Speaker 3: So I'm really excited to talk about this movie. I'm

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Speaker 3: honestly astounded how interesting I found it. But I do

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Speaker 3: want to issue a sort of dual warning here at

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Speaker 3: the top. First of all, about the podcast episode, This

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Speaker 3: film has some i would say extremely powerful twists and

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Speaker 3: surprises in it, and in order to talk about the

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Speaker 3: movie in detail, we have to sort of reveal those surprises,

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Speaker 3: including the ending, a little later in our conversation. So

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Speaker 3: if you want to watch it spoiler free and preserve

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Speaker 3: your surprise, you should do that before listening. But secondary warning,

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Speaker 3: before you go off to do that, I also have

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Speaker 3: to say I was absolutely floored by the ending of

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Speaker 3: this movie. And I don't usually feel the need to

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Speaker 3: issue like warnings just about a movie having disturbing content

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Speaker 3: or being really unsettling, But you know, we cover a

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Speaker 3: lot of weird horror and stuff but this one was, like,

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Speaker 3: it shook me so hard that I feel like I

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Speaker 3: should give people a bit of a heads up, especially

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Speaker 3: because I think you're not really expecting it given the context.

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Speaker 3: This movie is from nineteen sixty six. It's shot in

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Speaker 3: black and white. The cinematography is amazing. It looks like

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Speaker 3: a film from a little bit earlier, Like it looks

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Speaker 3: like it could be a really well shot, interesting looking

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Speaker 3: film from the fifties. It stars Rock Hudson's that really

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Speaker 3: also makes it feel like, I don't know, one of

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Speaker 3: these kind of romantic comedy movies from the fifties or something.

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Speaker 3: But I think, especially given all that context, I was

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Speaker 3: just not prepared for the raw horror and desperate bleakness

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Speaker 3: achieved by the end of this film. So if you

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Speaker 3: watch it, prepared to be shaken.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: This movie is a sixties film that looks in many

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Speaker 1: respects like a nineteen fifties movie, but ultimately has the

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Speaker 1: feel of a seventies or even eighties film in terms

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Speaker 1: of its impact.

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Speaker 3: I guess I could worry that on the other end,

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Speaker 3: I might be kind of diminishing the dramatic effect by

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Speaker 3: giving this warning, but so be it. I was shocked

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Speaker 3: by the ending, and I was kind of like walking

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Speaker 3: around the house feeling a pit in my stomach afterwards. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, if people were going to go off and

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Speaker 3: watch this, be prepared.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was finishing watching this movie after my son came

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Speaker 1: back from summer camp, and I was like watching it

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Speaker 1: in the living room but with headphones in, and right

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Speaker 1: as everything was going down, and I was like prepared

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Speaker 1: to jump up and like like pause the movies from

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Speaker 1: entering the room just because I was like, this is to.

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Speaker 3: To start exactly right after I finished, I was going

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Speaker 3: to go play with my baby. And it's just I mean,

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Speaker 3: I guess that's a good thing to do, actually, because

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Speaker 3: I want to say but on the other hand, I

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Speaker 3: don't want to scare people off too much because I

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Speaker 3: think Seconds is a phenomenal film. I had never seen

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Speaker 3: it before we watched it this week for the show.

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Speaker 3: I understand it received I think a very polarized reaction

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Speaker 3: from critics back when it was first released. I think

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Speaker 3: some thought it was a kind of strange masterpiece. Others

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Speaker 3: thought it was cold and even reprehensible. And I didn't

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Speaker 3: fully understand this division in opinion while I was watching it.

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Speaker 3: Until the ending and then it made sense. But I

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Speaker 3: think I would side more with the supporters. In my opinion.

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Speaker 3: Seconds is a piercing, fascinating look at the nature of desire.

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Speaker 3: This is a film about what it means to want

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Speaker 3: things and to want something different for your life, and

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Speaker 3: it explores the really complex, troubling, hidden architecture underneath the

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Speaker 3: visible edifice of all those desires. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I won't say anything more about the ending until

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Speaker 1: we get to it, but I will say it's not

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Speaker 1: a gut punch ending. It's not one of those undeserved

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Speaker 1: gut punch endings anyway. I think it's as you were,

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Speaker 1: as you're there on the floor holding your stomach, you

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Speaker 1: realize no, that gut punch was warranted. Yeah, and is

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Speaker 1: supported by the film. Now, one thing that I think

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Speaker 1: is interesting to point out, and this is purely accidental,

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Speaker 1: but I think Seconds is in many ways an interesting

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Speaker 1: companion piece to The Incredible Shrinking Man from nineteen fifty

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Speaker 1: seven that we recently talked about on the show. They

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Speaker 1: both deal with themes of mid century midlife crisis and

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Speaker 1: fantastic treatments of desired or undesired change. In The Incredible

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Speaker 1: shrinking man. Our protagonist is literally diminished and ultimately reaches

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Speaker 1: a point of acceptance and ultimately even transcendence. Seconds, however,

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Speaker 1: deals with the siren song of escape and liberation from

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Speaker 1: one's own life, and is ultimately a far darker tale.

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Speaker 3: Agree one hundred percent. These are both excellent movies and

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Speaker 3: offer really interesting philosophical counterpoints to one another.

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Speaker 1: My elevator pitch is feature length Twilight Zone midlife Crisis. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right, let's go ahead and hear the audio from

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Speaker 1: the trailer.

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Speaker 4: Old Bizarre Terrify rock Hudson in an astonishing change of

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Speaker 4: pace stars in Seconds. Rock Hudson as a second freed

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Speaker 4: from all responsibilities, now ready to taste new pleasures. Rock

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Speaker 4: Hudson as a man who buys for himself a totally

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Speaker 4: new life, a chance to begin again every man's dream

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Speaker 4: since time began. As soon as these people leave, I'm

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Speaker 4: going to attack you. I want you to know that

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Speaker 4: I'm counting on it. Rock Hudson as a man who

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Speaker 4: lives the nightmare of being a second.

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Speaker 1: If you like that, Hey John, Hey John, Hey John,

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Speaker 1: Why are they're stirring at me like that?

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Speaker 3: They know.

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Speaker 1: They know what they're like?

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Speaker 3: You Reborn.

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Speaker 1: All right, Now, if you're eager to go out and

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Speaker 1: see this one for the for yourself before we discuss

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Speaker 1: it any further, and this would be a good place

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Speaker 1: to do that, because after after this, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: going to start getting into the characters and into the plot,

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Speaker 1: and even in discussing the characters, we're gonna spoil a

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Speaker 1: few things for you. So yeah, go out and see

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Speaker 1: it if you're interested. It's widely available on digital and

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Speaker 1: it was released on Blu Ray as part of the

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Speaker 1: Criterion Collection. So yeah, it's a film that, despite it's

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Speaker 1: seeming mixed reviews when it came out, or mixed reception

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Speaker 1: critically and so forth, it has developed a cult following

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Speaker 1: over the decades, and I think is largely very well

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Speaker 1: received and admired today.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think it really aged into proper acclaim.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well, let's talk about some of the

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Speaker 1: folks involved in making this picture. Starting at the top,

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Speaker 1: I mentioned that this is a John Frankenheimer film. He

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Speaker 1: directed it. Frankenheimer lived nineteen thirty three two thousand and two,

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Speaker 1: started out in TV in the mid fifties and directed

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Speaker 1: twenty six episodes of Climax exclamation point. He made his

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Speaker 1: film directorial debut with nineteen fifty seven's The Young Stranger,

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Speaker 1: a drama starring Kim Hunter. In the sixties, though, he

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Speaker 1: really came into his own first with The Young Savage,

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Speaker 1: a nineteen sixty one street gang flick starring Burt Lancaster

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Speaker 1: as a district attorney, not as a troubled youth, I

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Speaker 1: should say, because I don't know Burt Lancaster ever was

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Speaker 1: a youth. He also did a trio of films in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, All Fall Down with Warren Beatty, Birdman

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Speaker 1: of Alcatraz with Lancaster and Carl Malden, and The Manchurian

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Speaker 1: Candidate starring Frank Sinatra and Angela Lansberry. That is probably

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Speaker 1: one of his more famous films.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's a very different kind of genre and subject matter.

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Speaker 3: I would say one thing that is shared in common

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Speaker 3: between Manchurian Candidate and Seconds is the atmosphere of secretiveness

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Speaker 3: and paranoia that is conjured in both films.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, This after this came nineteen sixty four, seven

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Speaker 1: Days in May. This is about a military coup taking

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Speaker 1: place in the United States, which I think also has

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Speaker 1: similar strains. You know obviously of conspiracy and so forth

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Speaker 1: in Paranoia, and then a film called The Train, which

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Speaker 1: I think is maybe a little less on the intrigue

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Speaker 1: and conspiracy spectrum. And then comes the movie Seconds. Frankenheimer

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Speaker 1: continued work steadily throughout the rest of his life, and

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Speaker 1: some of the standouts include seventy five's The French Connection two,

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven's Black Sunday. This was the first film

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Speaker 1: adaptation of a Thomas Harris novel. The nineteen seventy nine

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Speaker 1: mutant Bear movie Prophecy, which we've mentioned a few times

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Speaker 1: on the show before.

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Speaker 3: Seems to come up frequently.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's a mutant bear movie,

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Speaker 1: directed by John Frankenheimer. I still haven't seen it all

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Speaker 1: the way. I started watching it and then realized it

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Speaker 1: it was maybe too serious for what I had in

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Speaker 1: mind for myself. He directed the nineteen eighty two John

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Speaker 1: Salis scripted action movie The Challenge, starring Scott glenn In

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Speaker 1: Toshiro Mafuni nineteen ninety four is The Burning Season starring

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Speaker 1: Raal Julia. He of course stepped in to replace Richard

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Speaker 1: Stanley on nineteen ninety six as the Island of Doctor Moreau,

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Speaker 1: and then he also directed nineteen ninety eight's Ronan, which

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Speaker 1: is a pretty entertaining espionage thriller. As I recall, it's

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Speaker 1: got a really solid cast and some excellent vehicular stunts.

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Speaker 3: I think that's one of those movies I saw when

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Speaker 3: you know, I was like too young to understand the

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Speaker 3: plot at all, but I do remember, like Robert de

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Speaker 3: Niro and Sean Bean and still in Scars Guard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, even you don't have to understand the plot of Ronan. Really,

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Speaker 1: it's just, you know, various spy types are encountering each

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Speaker 1: other as saying cryptic things, and then stuff gets blown

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Speaker 1: up and so forth, all right. The screenplay for this

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Speaker 1: film was written by Lewis John Carlino, who lived nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty two through twenty twenty American screenwriter and director. He'd

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Speaker 1: written for TV previously, but this was his first feature

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Speaker 1: screenplay credit, but certainly not the last. His later screenplays

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Speaker 1: include nineteen seventy twos of the Mechanic and nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: nine's The Great Santini starring Robert Devall. This was based

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Speaker 1: on the Pat Conroy novel, and Carlino also directed film

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Speaker 1: Now this film, Seconds is based on the novel by

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Speaker 1: David Ealy born nineteen twenty seven. The only other adaptation

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Speaker 1: of his work that I ran across as a nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy one segment on Night Gallery titled The Academy starring

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Speaker 1: Pat Boone. I think I've seen this one because I

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Speaker 1: think it's season one, but I don't remember it at all.

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Speaker 1: Seconds was a nineteen sixty three novel, and his other

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Speaker 1: works include sixty eight Timeout and nineteen ninety two is

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Speaker 1: a journal of the flood year. All right, getting into

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Speaker 1: the cast here, and yes, there're gonna be some spoilers,

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Speaker 1: as we discussed, like who each of these people is playing.

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Speaker 1: We have this character named Arthur Hamilton. He's the initial

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Speaker 1: incarnation of our protagonist, a successful man who's deeply uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: in his own life and completely bottled up emotionally. It is,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, just a really great performance by the actor.

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Speaker 1: John Randolph, who lived nineteen fifteen through two thousand and four.

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Speaker 3: Agree that the cast is excellent across the I think

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Speaker 3: really everybody who gets speaking roles in this is very good.

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Speaker 3: But the two actors playing the protagonist are I think

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Speaker 3: should be singled out for really high praise.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, obviously a performance doesn't exist in isolation.

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Speaker 1: Randolph's performance here is accentuated by great direction, great cinematography.

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Speaker 1: But man, it really all comes together in this very

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable and at times like really surprisingly raw, like emotionally raw,

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Speaker 1: and also just paranoia inducing performance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 1: Randolph was born Emmanuel Hirsch Cohen and was active on

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Speaker 1: Broadway as far back as nineteen thirty eight according to

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Speaker 1: the Internet Broadway Database, and his earliest TV and film

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Speaker 1: credits go back to forty eight and forty nine. But

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Speaker 1: he and his wife Sarah Cunningham were both blacklisted around

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Speaker 1: that time, and in nineteen fifty five they were both

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Speaker 1: called to testify before the House and American Activities Committee.

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Speaker 1: As such, Randolph was forced to work outside of Hollywood

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Speaker 1: and New York film televis in radio for a good

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Speaker 1: fifteen years.

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Speaker 3: Man, I feel like Huac has been coming up a

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Speaker 3: lot in Weird House episodes recently. That's not by design.

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Speaker 3: It just happens to.

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Speaker 1: Me, It just it just happens. It seems like it's

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Speaker 1: a case of watching, you know, meaningful films with talented

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Speaker 1: folks in them from this time period. It just it

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Speaker 1: ended up impacting so many people, either the Blacklist or

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Speaker 1: the Gray List or the ramifications of those lists. So anyway, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he continued working in New York theater. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that was like directly impacted. It may have been indirectly.

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Speaker 1: But his TV and film credits are pretty lackluster up

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Speaker 1: until the mid sixties, and this film Seconds was his

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Speaker 1: first real film role coming out of that Blacklist period. Now,

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Speaker 1: after Seconds, he did a lot more TV work, including

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Speaker 1: Night Gallery, and played the chairman in two Planet of

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Speaker 1: the Apes movies, Escape in Conquest at seventy one and

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Speaker 1: seventy two. He was in Serpico in seventy three, the

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Speaker 1: al Pacino cop movie. He was in the seventy six

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Speaker 1: King Car film Heaven Can Wait in seventy eight, Pritzy's

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Speaker 1: Honor in eighty five. Oh, I didn't recognize him at

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Speaker 1: all from this, but he was in National Lampoon's Christmas

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Speaker 1: Vacation in eighty nine playing Clark Griswold.

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Speaker 3: No memory of that, though, I've seen that movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was in You've Got Mail in ninety eight,

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Speaker 1: and he played the original Frank Costanza on Seinfeld. I

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Speaker 1: either didn't know or had forgotten that this was ever

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Speaker 1: a case of someone else ever having played the plot

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Speaker 1: before Jerry Stiller and I couldn't find a clear answer.

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Speaker 1: It seems like it might have been just scheduling issues

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Speaker 1: that the reason they ended up replacing him as playing

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Speaker 1: Frank Costanza, but it also may have been a desire

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Speaker 1: to go in a new direction with the character. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure. I can't really imagine him being Frank Costanza

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Speaker 1: long term on the show. Likewise, I can't imagine Jerry

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Speaker 1: Stiller playing this role in this movie.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I really want to give credit to

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Speaker 3: Randolph in this role because he's very good, and in

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Speaker 3: many ways it's a thankless kind of performance because he

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Speaker 3: it's very complex and he's pitch perfect in it. But

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Speaker 3: it's a role where he doesn't really get to branch

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Speaker 3: out and like offer much emotion, because like the whole

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Speaker 3: point is that his character is kind of like unfulfilled

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Speaker 3: and unfulfilling. He's just sitting there, like containing all of

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Speaker 3: his disappointment within himself and not really getting to express it.

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Speaker 3: And this character does have an arc where he goes

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Speaker 3: other places, but as we're about to reveal in a minute,

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Speaker 3: this actor doesn't get to be there for that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the key thing is that as a

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Speaker 1: vessel containing these complex emotions that are just straining to

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Speaker 1: leak out, like you can see that, you can observe that,

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Speaker 1: you can feel that in its performance, and it's not

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Speaker 1: it's not a situation where you just have to imagine,

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Speaker 1: you know, purely imagine what's going on inside, like you

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Speaker 1: can see the gears turning. So excellent performance. Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And you know, I don't think i'd really seen much

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Speaker 1: of his work before outside of obviously Christmas Vacation, which

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Speaker 1: you know, it is perfectly fine. I've seen it a

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Speaker 1: million times, but not really a showcase for his work,

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Speaker 1: all right. Playing author Hamilton's wife, Emily Hamilton is Francis Reid,

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Speaker 1: who lived nineteen fourteen through twenty ten. American actor, best

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Speaker 1: known in film for her role here, but she also

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Speaker 1: acted in nineteen seventy one's The Andromeda Strain soap opera. Fans, however,

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Speaker 1: might recognize her from This Is Correct, three three hundred

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Speaker 1: and ninety three episodes of Days of Our Lives, in

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Speaker 1: which she played Alice Horton from nineteen sixty five through

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 3: How is that even possible? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It just it sounds astounding, But I guess they just

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Speaker 1: really cranked these out. I mean this was like a

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Speaker 1: daily show, right.

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Speaker 3: That's a sound. I had no idea that show ran

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Speaker 3: that long. But also I want to say Francis Reid

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Speaker 3: extremely good in this movie in a similarly thankless kind

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Speaker 3: of role to to John Randolph here, that she you know,

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Speaker 3: she plays a character whose complexity is a lot in

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Speaker 3: what she doesn't get to say and doesn't get too emote.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah. So I think it's also a solid performance.

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Speaker 1: And there's there's kind of a part one in part

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Speaker 1: two of it that I think equals thinks out really well.

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Speaker 1: All right, the next character we're going to discuss here

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Speaker 1: has a different name. It's Antiochus Wilson or Wilson as

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Speaker 1: he's mostly referred to. This is the reborn Arthur Hamilton.

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Speaker 1: So this is we'll explain, this is the character he becomes.

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Speaker 1: He is reborn as this person through like surgical reconstruction

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Speaker 1: and through fraudulent documents and so forth. There's a whole

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Speaker 1: organization we'll get to that, but basically, one character becomes

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Speaker 1: this other take on the Carre and a new actor

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Speaker 1: takes over the role. That actor is Rock Hudson, who

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Speaker 1: lived nineteen twenty five through nineteen eighty five.

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Speaker 3: I'm not super well versed on Rock Hudson's career, but

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Speaker 3: from what I understand, this was a major departure for

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Speaker 3: him that he had mostly done much lighter movies. You know,

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Speaker 3: he's known as that, like, he's a handsome guy. He's

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Speaker 3: there to like be like the fun, good looking guy

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Speaker 3: in like a romance or romantic comedy or something to

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Speaker 3: be in a in a dark, brooding, philosophical science fiction

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Speaker 3: film like this. I don't think he'd really done anything

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Speaker 3: like this, had he?

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Speaker 1: No, No, I was looking around. I don't think he'd

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Speaker 1: ever done anything that you could classify as horror or

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Speaker 1: science fiction or certainly fantasy. And you know, part of that,

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Speaker 1: as we've discussed highly successful actors or directors or what

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Speaker 1: have you of the day, they generally didn't have to

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Speaker 1: do that. It's such an inversion of what we have today,

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Speaker 1: where the biggest actors around are you know, almost inevitably,

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Speaker 1: with some notable exceptions of it, there no, any of

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Speaker 1: these generalities are not going to be one hundred percent,

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Speaker 1: but you know, it's not surprising to see someone who's

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Speaker 1: won multiple Oscars show up in a Marvel movie or

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Speaker 1: in you know, whatever the or Star Wars or what

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Speaker 1: have you. But back in the day, you know, as

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Speaker 1: we've discussed on these various genre pictures, they were lower

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Speaker 1: down on the pecking order, and so yeah, it's not

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Speaker 1: surprising to find a situation where rockets and had never

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Speaker 1: been in a movie that had robots or aliens or

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Speaker 1: even you know, the sort of ultimately kind of light,

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Speaker 1: sophisticated sci fi, you know, kind of more Twilight Zone

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Speaker 1: ish elements that you find in this picture. Like you said,

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Speaker 1: he was, I mean he was a nineteen fifties leading

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Speaker 1: man perhaps, I mean not just a he was kind

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Speaker 1: of the nineteen fifties leading man. He's the top build

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Speaker 1: actor in this film. And he was easily one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest, if not biggest movie stars off his era.

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Speaker 1: His main film roles were stuff like his biggest pictures anyway,

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Speaker 1: from the fifties were stuff like All That Heaven Allows

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Speaker 1: Written on the Wind and Pillar Talk. These are all

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Speaker 1: movies where you look at you can pull him up

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Speaker 1: now on the database of your choice, and all the

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Speaker 1: posters prominently feature his character romantically embracing the lead actress.

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Speaker 1: That is not the case with Seconds. No, so so yeah,

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Speaker 1: going into that, this was a departure. And I'm to

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Speaker 1: understand he was not Frankenheimer's first choice for the role.

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Speaker 1: Apparently Frankenheimer considered Rock Hudson to you know, to be

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Speaker 1: maybe a lighter weight actor. Ultimately, you know, he's the

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Speaker 1: he's the rom com guy, he's the heart throb guy.

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Speaker 1: He's like, I need somebody like a Bert Lancaster. But

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Speaker 1: ultimately he gets sold on Rock Hudson, like his agent says,

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Speaker 1: you know, no, Hudson can do this. He's excited for

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Speaker 1: this role. And and in thees, so Frankenheimer was proved

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Speaker 1: wrong and has admitted as such. And and I know,

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Speaker 1: I absolutely agree. I think Hudson's performance in this is great.

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Speaker 1: I think he perfectly captures this sense of the reborn

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Speaker 1: in Seconds.

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Speaker 3: Fully agree. I wouldn't want anybody else in this role.

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Speaker 3: I think he's fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like, he's playing a character that's outwardly strong

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Speaker 1: and confident, you know, a complete transformation from his previous incarnation.

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Speaker 1: But inside, you know, there's still this uncertainty, there's perhaps

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Speaker 1: this sense of inadequacy, and you can see all of

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Speaker 1: that happening. You know, it just was I was worried,

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Speaker 1: honestly because the first performance of this character, John Randolph's

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Speaker 1: performance is so strong. I was like, even not being

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Speaker 1: that familiar with Rock Hudson's work, I was like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if Hudson's going to really be able to

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Speaker 1: pull this off, or we're going to feel it's going

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Speaker 1: to feel unequal. But I really think that he pulls

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Speaker 1: off a great performance here, and yeah, I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: it being any different now. Hudson would go on to

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Speaker 1: appear in two more films you could qualify as science

403
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Speaker 1: fiction nineteen seventy six is Embryo in nineteen eighties, The

404
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Speaker 1: Martian Chronicles, and the various other films. I think he's

405
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Speaker 1: in an avalanche movie that was covered on Mystery Science

406
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Speaker 1: Theater at some point late in his career. Much has

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Speaker 1: been written about Hudson's personal life, as he was a

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Speaker 1: gay man working at a time and in a position

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Speaker 1: that did not permit him to live openly as such,

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Speaker 1: and this is also factored into a fair amount of

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Speaker 1: film analysis. You know, retrospectively concerning seconds. But any way

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Speaker 1: you shake it, any way you look at it, this

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Speaker 1: is now largely considered to be one of his best performances.

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Speaker 1: I think I read that it's a performance that Hudson

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Speaker 1: himself was very proud of, and I think with good reason.

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Speaker 3: Here here hats off to Rock Hudson.

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Speaker 1: This is one of those episodes where we don't really

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Speaker 1: get to harp on anybody or critique anybody's performance. It's

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Speaker 1: like every one of them is like, Wow, they nailed it,

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Speaker 1: absolutely well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how it is across the board. I feel

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Speaker 3: like everybody did great work here.

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Speaker 1: Now up next, we have Salome Gents playing Nora Marcus

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Speaker 1: Or nineteen thirty five American modern dancer turned actor of stage,

425
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Speaker 1: screen and TV. Her first major role was playing the

426
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Speaker 1: Future Woman in nineteen fifty eight Terror from the Year

427
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Speaker 1: of five thousand, a movie some of you misties out

428
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: there might remember from Mystery Smith's Theater three thousand. It's

429
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Speaker 1: not actually that memorable a film, but a lot of

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Speaker 1: people probably saw it through MST. She played the title

431
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Speaker 1: role in nineteen sixty one's Angel Baby, which starred George

432
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: Hamilton and was the film debut of Bert Reynolds pre Mustache.

433
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: Of course, she was in sixty five's The Fool Killer

434
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: opposite Anthony Perkins, and then comes Seconds in which she

435
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 1: plays this captivating character Nora that our protagonist encounters in

436
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: his new life in bohemian California.

437
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 3: She is a self actualized free spirit who has taken

438
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 3: her life into her own hands, and she represents, in

439
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 3: a way, I think, the potential to live life in

440
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 3: freedom and self determination.

441
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's so alive, but to the degree that, at

442
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: least through the lens of our main character, you know,

443
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: she is exciting and full of promise, but also maybe

444
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 1: a little bit intimidating and frightening. And I think it's

445
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: all played perfectly. It's a very lively and charismatic performance.

446
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 1: So hats off to Solome gens here. She worked a

447
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: lot after this, mostly on TV, but her TV credentials

448
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 1: are really solid, including The Outer Limits, the original Outer Limits.

449
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: She was also in a single episode of Tales from

450
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: the Cryptomaniac at Large. That one's notable because that one

451
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: was directed by John Frankenheimer. That was a pretty solid episode.

452
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: That was one that we actually discussed on a past

453
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: anthology of Horror for stuff to blow your mind. Oh okay,

454
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: that one had adam Ant in it. You might recall

455
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 1: she also pops up on Star Trek the Next Generation,

456
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: and also had a more substantial role as the female

457
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: shape Shifter on fifteen episodes of Star Trek Deep Space nine.

458
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: She narrated nineteen eighty six's Clan of the Cave Bear

459
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: and did other voice work late in her career. All right,

460
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: So at the heart of this movie, there's a sinister

461
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: corporation that is called The Company, and it has various

462
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: individuals working in it. I'm going to go lighter on

463
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: the backgrounds on these actors, just because I don't want

464
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: to spend the entire podcast just talking about the Stellar cast.

465
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: But heading this up, or seemingly heading this up, is

466
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: the Old Man, played by Will Gear, who lived nineteen

467
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: oh two through nineteen seventy eight, botanist turned actor and

468
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: lifelong activists who also found himself blacklisted in nineteen fifties

469
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: Hollywood after refusing to name names before Congress. Other films

470
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: of note include nineteen sixty sevens In Cold Blood and

471
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two's Jeremiah Johnson.

472
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 3: Will Gear really stood out to me, he was perfect

473
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 3: in his role. I think we can talk more about

474
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 3: him when we get into the plot.

475
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. We also have a man by the name of

476
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: mister Ruby, played by Jeff Corey. Jeff Corey lived nineteen

477
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: fourteen through two thousand and two, another stage and screen

478
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: actor blacklisted during the nineteen fifties, also for refusing to

479
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: name names. He became a noted acting teacher during that

480
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: period and worked with a number of future stars. His

481
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: biggest films include sixty nine's True Grit as well as

482
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 1: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and nineteen seventies Beneath

483
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: the Planet of the Apes. Also the film Little Big

484
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: Man from nineteen seventy. We also have a character named

485
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: Doctor Inni. This is the I guess, the plastic surgeon

486
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: that works for the company, and he is played by

487
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: Richard Anderson, who lived nineteen twenty six through twenty seventeen.

488
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: American actor, best known on screen for supporting roles in

489
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: fifty eight Paths of Glory, fifty nine's Compulsion, and fifty

490
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: six's Forbidden Planet. On TV, he played Oscar Goldman, who

491
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: is the boss of both the six Million Dollar Man

492
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: and the six million Dollar Woman, or I guess like

493
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: the twelve million dollar man in Woman. There's also another

494
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: interesting character in the company, a character named Devallo, and

495
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: he's played by the actor Kay d who lived nineteen

496
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: ten through nineteen ninety one, an American actor of Anglo

497
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: Egyptian Sudanese ancestry who tended to play characters of Asian

498
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: descent in various pictures and TV projects from nineteen fifty

499
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: through about nineteen ninety. His other big film was nineteen

500
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: sixty two's The Manchurian Candidate, where he played the brainwashing

501
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: expert doctor Yen Lowe.

502
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, okay. In this movie, he has an interesting role.

503
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 3: It's a very small role, but an interesting moment in

504
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 3: the plot where he is there to sort of illicit

505
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 3: confessions and monologues from the clients of this company to

506
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 3: sort of reveal their hidden true desires. Yeah.

507
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: So it's a similar feel, I guess in some ways

508
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: to this character from The Manchurian Candidate and also a

509
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: wonderful mustache. Yes, we also have a character named John.

510
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: We don't know his last name, he's just John. We'll

511
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: discuss his role and everything in a bit, but he's

512
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: played by Wesley Addie, who lived nineteen thirteen through nineteen

513
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: ninety six stage and screen actor, best known for nineteen

514
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: fifty fives, Kissed Me Deadly, nineteen seventies, Tora Tora Torah

515
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six's Network. All Right, moving outside of

516
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: the company here we have another character or not completely

517
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: outside of the company, but another character encounter is a

518
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: character named Charlie, and he's played by Murray Hamilton, who

519
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: lived nineteen twenty three through nineteen eighty six stage and

520
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: screen actor who might not be as recognizable to many

521
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: in this film. But Joe, where do you know this

522
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: guy from?

523
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 4: Oh?

524
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 3: This is the Mayor from Jaws in a way, playing

525
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 3: the same kind of squirrely scammer he is in Jaws.

526
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. This is Mayor Vaughn from the first two

527
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: Jaws movies. He was also mister Robinson in sixty seven's

528
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: The Graduate and Father Ryan in The Amityville Horror from

529
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine.

530
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 3: It is weird seeing him without one of his signature

531
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 3: blazers from Jaws. By the way, if you've never noticed

532
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 3: in Jaws before the Jackets that Mayor Vaughn wears, they

533
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 3: are words can't even describe just chef kiss. I want

534
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 3: them all in my closet. One of them is an

535
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 3: anchor print. It's just got a little anchors all over it.

536
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 3: And another one is rob look at the one with

537
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: the parallel lines. I don't even know how to describe this.

538
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: Wow, I went. I would be very surprised if someone's

539
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: not putting these out again now, because I'm served ads

540
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: of lake for reproductions of like shirt prints from like

541
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and other films like

542
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: this is like people have realized that people just want

543
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: to wear that shirt. So how long until this blazer

544
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: with all the anchors on it is out? When people realize, hey,

545
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: as I, you know, settle into the late middle age,

546
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: I want to I want to start wearing jackets, like

547
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: like the mayor from Jaws does.

548
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, Amity, as you know, means friendship.

549
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: All right. The music in this film is by Jerry Goldsmith,

550
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: who lived twenty nine through two thousand and four. His

551
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: work has come up on Weird House previously, I believe

552
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: in the Congo episode and in the Grimlins two episode.

553
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: So I won't go really deep here or anything, but

554
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: suffice to say, a very successful and prolific film composer,

555
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: and I think this score hits all the right notes.

556
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: It really leans into the melodrama where that's appropriate, and

557
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: certainly into the paranoia.

558
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 3: I agree. I think this very strong score really does

559
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 3: help but drive home the paranoia. But another thing, probably

560
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 3: the thing that more than anything else, really sets the

561
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 3: tone of paranoia is the excellent cinematography.

562
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: That's right, and this is the work of James Wong Howe.

563
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: Howe lived eighteen ninety nine through nineteen seventy six, and

564
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: he's actually the reason this film initially popped up on

565
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: my radar. That was because I was reading about notable

566
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: Asian American film industry folks and James Wong Howe is

567
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: considered one of the best cinematographers of all time, a

568
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: real master of shadow. Was highly sought after for multiple decades,

569
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: ultimately earned ten Oscar nominations, including for this film, and

570
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: one two of them they're only like when I I

571
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: was looking into him, I was like, well, hopefully this

572
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: guy did some weird films, something that we could discuss

573
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: for weird House. And out of all the movies he did,

574
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: I think only two or three classify it, but this

575
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: was one of them, and I'm glad we went with

576
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: this one.

577
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 3: Another one I think was Mark of the Vampire, right,

578
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 3: which is a vampire movie famous for having kind of

579
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 3: a Scooby Doo ending.

580
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's a Todd Browning. It's supposed to

581
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: look gorgeous. Nineteen thirty five has a great cast, but

582
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: I don't think it's the Todd Browning film we need

583
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: to watch. So this one was I think the right

584
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: choice for James Wonghow.

585
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. I haven't seen that other movie, but you can't

586
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 3: be disappointed with his work on this one. It's just amazing.

587
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: So how was born in China, but his father went

588
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: to work in America for the Northern Pacific Railway and

589
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: eventually was able to bring his family over as well.

590
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: I think how would have been four or five at

591
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: the time. His father eventually ran a general store in

592
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: Washington State, and Howe got his young hands on an

593
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: Eastman Kodak Brownie camera, which I'm to understand was kind

594
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: of like his This was where things would begin his

595
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: interest in photography and a old time mintly cinematography. Now,

596
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: as he grew older, he tried his hand at a

597
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: few different career paths, but eventually worked his way into

598
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: first commercial photography and then cinematography in la during the

599
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: Silent film era. He did assistant camera and clapper work

600
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: as early as nineteen nineteen, but served as cinematographer for

601
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: the first time on nineteen twenty three's Drums of Fate,

602
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: due apparently in part to star Mary Miles Minter, who

603
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: took note of Howell's technical ability capturing I believe the

604
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 1: darkness in her eyes. He had some trick for photographing

605
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: her just the right way, and she's like, well, this

606
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: is the guy, this is who I want to work with,

607
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: and work he did. He worked steadily throughout the twenties, thirties,

608
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: and forties, and became highly sought after, working with such

609
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: directors as Howard Hawks again Todd Browning. He worked on

610
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: such films as nineteen thirty four as The Thin Man.

611
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: He was also the uncredited cinematographer on those orchestra segments

612
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: in Disney's Fantasia in nineteen forty woh Okay. He made

613
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: numerous technological innovations as well, and ultimately cemented his place

614
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: as an innovator and master, particularly of shadow as well

615
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: as deep focused cinematography now in many respects, Yeah, his

616
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: is a great Chinese American success story, but it's also

617
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: essential to realize a lot of what he was up against.

618
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: He couldn't obtain US citizenship till the nineteen forties due

619
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 1: to the Chinese Exclusion Act, which ran from eighteen eighty

620
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: two through nineteen forty three. And he also could neither

621
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: legally marry or publicly acknowledge his wife, Sonora Babb until

622
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties due to California laws against interracial marriage

623
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: and the moral clause of his studio contract, which I

624
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: think that the basic idea is there, like he couldn't

625
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: legally marry her, and then due to the moral clause

626
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: of his contract, he could not like publicly be in

627
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: a relationship with her, that sort of thing. Then, during

628
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 1: the years of the Hollywood Blacklist, his wife was blacklisted

629
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: for alleged Communist sympathies, and Howl himself was gray listed.

630
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 1: This forced them to move to Mexico for a period,

631
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: though year by year his output seemed to remain pretty

632
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 1: steady by the look of things, so you know, one

633
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: way or another, he was still finding projects to work on.

634
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: Other films of note that he worked on include nineteen

635
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: fifty six's The Rose Tattoo, This was his first oscar win,

636
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty eight's The Old Man in the Sea, nineteen

637
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: sixty three's Hud that's also one that won him an Oscar,

638
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eights, The Heart is a Lonely Hunter, nineteen

639
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: seventies The Molly Maguires, and nineteen seventy five's Funny Lady.

640
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: This was his last film for which he was also

641
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: nominated for an Oscar. He also has eight directorial credits

642
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: to his name, including nineteen fifty four's Go Man, Go

643
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty eight's Invisible Danger. But again, his work

644
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: in this film is just tremendous. I think you've never

645
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: seen a film that he worked on like this is

646
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: a perfect starting place.

647
00:36:54,320 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 5: Absolutely, yeah, all right, we ready to talk about the plot.

648
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: Let's do it, all right.

649
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 3: So I found myself thinking we probably shouldn't do a

650
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 3: detailed scene by scene recap of this one like we

651
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 3: do in some episodes. Actually, this movie got me thinking

652
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 3: about which movies feel right for that and which ones don't. Somehow,

653
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 3: I think it's the campier or sillier outings that really

654
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 3: invite the more minute scene by scene treatment, and for

655
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 3: some reason, the more weighty and serious dramas don't. I

656
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 3: don't exactly know why that is, but that does seem

657
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 3: to be the general trend.

658
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: A lot of times we kind of breathe life into

659
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: the spaces where there's not life, and yeah, a film

660
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: like this, it's like all the spaces are occupied, all

661
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: the spaces are meaningful, and they don't necessarily need us

662
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: to interpret them exactly.

663
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 3: So something would feel kind of cheap I think about

664
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 3: looking at it too closely. So instead we're going to

665
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 3: zoom in and zoom out a little bit. But one

666
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 3: place I do want to start zoomed in is the

667
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 3: very beginning with the opening credits, where we have dissonant

668
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 3: mechanical music, almost like the sound of a kind of

669
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 3: scanning device emitting a signal that there is something being

670
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 3: detected right here. It made me think of the motion

671
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 3: trackers and aliens, but I don't know, some kind of

672
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 3: music like that. And then you also have dark, moody

673
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 3: strings and minor chords on the organ. Again, this is

674
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 3: a score by Jerry Goldsmith kind of reminds me in

675
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 3: a way of some of Howard Shore's music for like

676
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 3: David Cronenberg movies. Yeah, that would come later, of course.

677
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 3: And throughout the credit sequence we have extreme close ups

678
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 3: on human facial features with a kind of fun house

679
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 3: mirror effect. Everything is warped and inverting upon itself, lips, teeth, ears, eyes,

680
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 3: and then there's one part that's kind of funny with

681
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 3: the name Rock Hudson appearing across the sclare of a

682
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 3: tortured eyeball, and then finally a face covered in cloth wrapping,

683
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 3: almost like a ski mask, but I think it is

684
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 3: supposed to be bandages.

685
00:38:58,800 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 4: Now.

686
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: It's a note that the one and only Saw Bass

687
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: is credited with the titles here. He of course directed

688
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: Phase four, the ant movie that we discussed on the

689
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: show previously, though to just call it an and movie

690
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: is almost a disservice. That was his one and only

691
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: feature directing credit. But the man's main bread and butter

692
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: was this sort of work.

693
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, like main titles and credit sequences and stuff posters

694
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 3: as well.

695
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and these are great, but again but kind of

696
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: to your point, if you don't want to look up

697
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: anybody's nose or into someone's ear, if that's like a

698
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,760
Speaker 1: real turn off for you you might want to skip

699
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: this section of the movie.

700
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 3: Well, if you got that kind of constitution, you might

701
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 3: just not want to watch seconds. Yeah, so the movie begins.

702
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 3: You were speaking earlier about the paranoid cinematography, and there's

703
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 3: a great example of that right at the beginning. The

704
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 3: movie begins with a man moving through a train station.

705
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 3: I think it's actually Grand Central station. It is, And

706
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 3: there is a type of shot that I believe occurs

707
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 3: several times in the film where the camera is kind

708
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 3: of floating over the man's shoulder from behind and following

709
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 3: him very tightly as he moves. It's almost like it's

710
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 3: glued to him. And this has, for some reason a

711
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 3: very unsettling paranoid effect. It's like the feeling of an

712
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 3: unseen spirit chasing and observing your every move.

713
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, this movie doesn't play around with these the

714
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: feeling of something unsettling about the nature of reality.

715
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 3: And so it's following this man through a train station.

716
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,720
Speaker 3: We see this man moving, and then another man who's

717
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 3: always sort of photographed from the middle of the face

718
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 3: up I believe, with like the brim of his hat

719
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 3: down in in a kind of sinister way, following behind him.

720
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 3: So the man who's walking ahead turns out to be

721
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 3: our protagonist, Arthur Hamilton, and the stranger who's following him

722
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 3: follows him through the crowd, down the stairs, all the

723
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 3: way onto a train and then suddenly calls out his

724
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 3: name and hands him an address written on a piece

725
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 3: of paper and then departs, leaving Arthur just standing there

726
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 3: on the train baffled. What is this?

727
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the whole setup, it's like, what's going to happen?

728
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: Is so I'm going to be stabbed or shot? You know,

729
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: there's a handoff of a note, and somehow that makes

730
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: it all the more sinister because you know, especially from

731
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 1: the individual's reaction, like there's something really wrong about about

732
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: what just happened. Nothing good will come of this.

733
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 3: I guess we should take a moment to describe Arthur

734
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 3: the man here. What is his vibe?

735
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 1: Well, it's like we kind of discussed earlier. He has

736
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: a vessel, an unleaking vessel, straining with all sorts of

737
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: uncomfortable emotions. He is not comfortable in his own flesh,

738
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: in his own body. He's a man in his I

739
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: mean to be accurate, I mean the actor himself was

740
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: in his early fifties at this point though it's nineteen fifties,

741
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: early fifties, which is kind of a different animal than

742
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: we tend to have nowadays. You know, a lot is

743
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: said and commented upon regarding like differences in aging, or

744
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: aimingly difference that there are differences in aging, et cetera.

745
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 3: I think the way he plays it and the way

746
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 3: he's made up in photographed just makes him feel older

747
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 3: than he actually is. Yeah, So we learn a bit

748
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 3: about Arthur's life. We see him interacting with his wife,

749
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 3: We see him at work. He is a moderately successful

750
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 3: man in middle age. He's a banker. He obviously has

751
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 3: a steady income and some accumulated wealth. He has a

752
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,320
Speaker 3: very nice home. He has a wife and an adult

753
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,959
Speaker 3: daughter who is out of the home now she lives

754
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 3: with her husband in another state. And yet he seems

755
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 3: rather unhappy with his life. And this doesn't come from

756
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 3: overt expressions of emotion, but rather from kind of what

757
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:48,720
Speaker 3: is unsaid and his something kind of straining underneath the surface.

758
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 3: We see him at his job, where he obviously makes

759
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 3: a very good living. It seems he could hardly complain

760
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 3: about that, and yet he is just clearly bored with

761
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 3: his work and preoccupied. We see means of Arthur and

762
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 3: his wife Emily interacting, and there's an interesting approach here.

763
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 3: I feel like a lesser film might have made their

764
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 3: relationship more strife ridden or more strained. But they don't fight,

765
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 3: they're not overtly unhappy. They are basically loving and supportive

766
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,240
Speaker 3: of one another. But there's something kind of intangible missing.

767
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 3: You get the sense that their marriage is basically celibate,

768
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 3: and that they're like in that he reads this in

769
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 3: a way that's just kind of gray and disappointing.

770
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like he's not like a lesser film would have

771
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,720
Speaker 1: also made him just completely cold, and it's not quite

772
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 1: what's going on. There's this just this this sense of

773
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: like I feel like I should want to and yet

774
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: I cannot. Yeah, sort of thing.

775
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 3: You know.

776
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 1: It's it's it's complex.

777
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 3: And in the middle of all this, Arthur has begun

778
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 3: receiving strange phone calls in the middle of the night,

779
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 3: calls that claim to be from someone he knows from

780
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 3: his old old friend, Charlie, who played They played tennis

781
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 3: together when they were in college. And at first this

782
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 3: seems impossible because Charlie died several years before. But one night,

783
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 3: the man claiming to be Charlie gets Arthur talking and

784
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: he provides all kinds of private details that no one

785
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 3: would have any way of knowing. It has to be Charlie.

786
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 3: But how could he be back from the dead. Well,

787
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 3: Charlie tells Arthur to go to the address the man

788
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,879
Speaker 3: on the train gave him. He sort of like gives

789
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 3: him this this exhortation. I think he I don't recall exactly.

790
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 3: I think he also sort of implies like, you've got

791
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 3: to do it for me.

792
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

793
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 3: Now, I'm not going to go into great detail about this,

794
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 3: but this does lead to a kind of hunt sequence

795
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 3: where where Arthur decides that he does have to go

796
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 3: find this place, this address, and he goes to this

797
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 3: laundromat where he's asking around about it. I liked this

798
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 3: whole sequence because it's not exactly easy to find the

799
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 3: thing that Arthur is looking for, and he doesn't even

800
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 3: know what it is he's looking for. He's looking for

801
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 3: an unknown and yet he's he's going to all these

802
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 3: lengths to find it.

803
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and really going through you know, the underbelly

804
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: of the world here, like the laundry mat where you know,

805
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,919
Speaker 1: where where the garments are washed and pressed and they're

806
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: steam and sweat going through. Then this there's this whole

807
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 1: scene where they're going through this like meat processing place

808
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: where you know, obviously big swabs of meat is taking place,

809
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: animals are being processed, and people are walking around and

810
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 1: in smocks, uh, you know, and the whole time we're like,

811
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: oh my god, what's gonna what's gonna happen? Author you

812
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: should really really be walking in I don't want to

813
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: say confidently, because he doesn't really do anything with confidence,

814
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 1: but it's there's it's a very sinister ara to everything.

815
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 3: I think the significance of the meat packing plant has

816
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 3: the gateway to his final destination will make a lot

817
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 3: more sense once you see the end of the film. Yeah,

818
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 3: So eventually Arthur meets someone who knows what he's looking for,

819
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 3: and they sort of like they load him into the

820
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 3: back of a truck because he can't see where he's going,

821
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 3: and he is transported into the bowels of some large

822
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 3: building with no windows, to the heart of a secretive organization,

823
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 3: and they have a proposition for him. They say, Arthur,

824
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 3: what if you could have another chance at life? In fact,

825
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 3: we know that you are unhappy with your life, you

826
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 3: are not satisfied. What if you could start over somewhere

827
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 3: else and have the life that you really wanted, that

828
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 3: you know you should have had to begin with. This

829
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 3: company claims they can give that to you. Now, they

830
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 3: charge a very hefty fee they're going to take. I

831
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 3: think they say it's thirty thousand dollars, which is a

832
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 3: lot in the money of the time. But they can

833
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 3: do this impossible thing. They will stage your death, freeing

834
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,399
Speaker 3: you from your family and work obligations, and they will

835
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:55,280
Speaker 3: give you advanced plastic surgery basically full body plastic surgery

836
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 3: to completely transform your identity and appearance. So they can

837
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 3: take this bored middle aged man and his boring gray

838
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 3: life and transform him into the man he wishes he

839
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 3: could be. Now there's an interesting ripple here because at

840
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: first Arthur seems very hesitant. But they say, well, we

841
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 3: know everybody actually wants this, but they're going to feel

842
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 3: unable to say yes. So to help you along with

843
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 3: your decision, we have removed that choice for you with

844
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 3: the help of blackmail. So they say, when you first arrived,

845
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 3: we drugged you and we took photos staging a fake

846
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 3: sexual assault with you as the perpetrator, and if you

847
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 3: try to leave, we'll release the photos. So you have

848
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 3: no choice. You have to say yes. But this is

849
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 3: presented as we're doing you a favor because we know

850
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 3: you want to agree to this. You just don't feel

851
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 3: like you can. Now you don't have a choice.

852
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like we both know you want to leave

853
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: this lot in a new car. To help you out,

854
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: we went ahead and set your old car on fire. Yes,

855
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: and all this is played very well, like you can

856
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 1: see just how uncomfortable and afraid he becomes at this,

857
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: and the whole setup for it is also like hypnotic

858
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: and disturbing. So already we're well into the twilight zone here.

859
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 3: Right, But despite all of his hesitation and fear, Arthur

860
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 3: does agree. So he undergoes plastic surgery and then a

861
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 3: serious rehabilitation course and is transformed from his boring, doe

862
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 3: middle aged self into Rock Hudson, a lithe, dashingly handsome

863
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 3: and glamorous man, and he's given a full new identity.

864
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 3: He's a man called Antiochus Wilson. Now, of course, since

865
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 3: the company faked his death and committed all this fraud,

866
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 3: he has to keep his past life absolutely secret, so

867
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 3: he can't go around saying, you know, I used to

868
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 3: be this other guy. He has to just pretend all

869
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 3: he is is antioch As Wilson, that other life never existed.

870
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 3: During this process, he undergoes therap sessions to sort of

871
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,439
Speaker 3: I think it's to uncover his true desires. And there's

872
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 3: a theme that emerges during these therapy sessions that'll come

873
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 3: up a couple of times in the film, where I

874
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 3: think they put him under hypnosis and record the things

875
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 3: he's talking about, and before he gets into talking about

876
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 3: the things that they try to actualize, there are moments

877
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 3: where he kind of regresses into childhood desires and he

878
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 3: keeps talking about a big red ball. So there's this

879
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 3: establishment of a theme that becoming free to actually seek

880
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 3: one's true desires is in a way a kind of

881
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 3: regression into more and more immature objects of desire. But

882
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 3: they find through all this process that Arthur actually always

883
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 3: had an interest in painting. We find out later that

884
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 3: he sort of had a watercolor hobby. You know, he

885
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 3: would do little paintings, but he never got to really

886
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 3: pursue this because, of course, you know, he's trying to

887
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 3: have a serious career as a banker. So they set

888
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 3: him up as a professional painter with a house on

889
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 3: the West coast, and they send him off to settle

890
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 3: into his new life where he has like a butler

891
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 3: or a valet. I think the guy's name is John,

892
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 3: Is that right?

893
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 1: This is John the Silver Fox.

894
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 3: Yes, the butler who is provided by the company, who

895
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 3: attends to all of his needs. He's got this nice,

896
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 3: swanky house, he lives on the beach. He has this exciting,

897
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 3: glamorous life where he can do whatever he wants, and

898
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 3: he has all these friends, and he has this exciting

899
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 3: career with actual artistic fulfillment. Now he gets to be

900
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,439
Speaker 3: the painter that he thinks he really should have been.

901
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 3: He also meets an exciting woman, a woman named Nora

902
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 3: Marcus played by salome A Gens, and she's like a

903
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 3: free spirit who also left her previous life behind. Of course,

904
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 3: he can't admit that he did this. And they meet

905
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 3: and get to know one another, and they bond, and

906
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 3: eventually there's a scene where they attend like a literal

907
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 3: bacchan al together a bunch of hippies get naked and

908
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 3: they're like chugging and playing musical instruments and stomping on

909
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 3: grapes and.

910
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: A big vat Yeah, some obvious jazz cigarettes being smoked

911
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 1: at this event. I can come back to one second

912
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: to one second for the whole idea of them setting

913
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: him up as an artist. There was one of the

914
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: many scenes where the company men are talking him through

915
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:19,760
Speaker 1: what's going to happen. There was one scene in particular.

916
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: I thought it was really good because he's he's they're

917
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: showing him the paintings that they have provided that he

918
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: they're setting him up with his portfolio of his previous

919
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: work and talking about, you know, and then you'll you'll

920
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: change up your style a bit and you'll do something different,

921
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: and and they he has some hesitation about this, you know,

922
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: because it's like I really I don't have that level

923
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 1: of ability. And they're like, it doesn't matter, because you

924
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: will be established. And I thought that was that was

925
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: very chilling and kind of kind of cutting, and one

926
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: of the many moments in the film that you know

927
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 1: isn't about like, you know, high levels of anxiety or fear,

928
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: but it's just very solid.

929
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 3: I totally agree, and in fact, I think we see

930
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 3: it with like the Wild the bakan a, oh yeah,

931
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 3: the party lifestyle, and with his supposedly fulfilling artistic career.

932
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 3: In both of these cases we since that despite him

933
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 3: quote getting what he wants, something is very wrong and

934
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:16,240
Speaker 3: very empty with this life. There's a scene where he paints,

935
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 3: and that the scene is just painful because, as you

936
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 3: said earlier, like there so they establish his reputation as

937
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 3: an artist by buying paintings done by someone else, faking

938
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 3: them as his, passing them off as his, and now

939
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 3: he gets to paint. When he goes to paint, it's

940
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 3: it's obvious he's not happy doing it, Like he may

941
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 3: have been happy in his previous life doing his little

942
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 3: amateur watercolors, but now that he is supposed to be

943
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:49,240
Speaker 3: a serious painter and he realizes he's not like satisfied

944
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 3: with the paintings that he can produce with his own hand,

945
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 3: something is very like gnawing at him about this.

946
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it's it's been taken out of like

947
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: the organic pattern of his life, and now it's presented

948
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 1: in this unnatural state, and therefore it's not fulfilling because

949
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 1: the things that made it fulfilling and and made it desirable.

950
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: All of those conditions have been removed.

951
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 3: He may have not been able to be a painter professionally,

952
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 3: but in his other life when he was painting, at

953
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 3: least that was an honest pursuit. And now it's all

954
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 3: a fraud. Yeah, So that that emptiness comes through in

955
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 3: the painting scene. But there are also the scenes where

956
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 3: he like, he has these parties where he uh, you know,

957
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 3: is drinking and doing drugs and you know, having this

958
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 3: exciting lifestyle. But then he gets drunk and he blabs

959
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 3: about his previous life.

960
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: Oh boy, does he get drunk. He this is such

961
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: a like, these are such cringey scenes, Like I'm tempted

962
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: to compare them to like something you would see on

963
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: I think you should leave, yes, yeah, because but without

964
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: the comedy, you know, just like that level of windful,

965
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 1: it is painful to watch. I mean, he's it's beyond like,

966
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: oh he's a funny drunk or and he's just like

967
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: a he gets sloppy drunk where you characters are trying

968
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: to say you shouldn't drink anymore or you should leave,

969
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: and he keeps going.

970
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 3: And there is a scene where at one point he

971
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:17,320
Speaker 3: gets drunk and he starts blabbing about his previous life,

972
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 3: and some people from the party have to grab him

973
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 3: and take him into his bedroom and explain to him,

974
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 3: you need to keep your mouth shut, because it turns

975
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 3: out all of his new friends, they're not necessarily like

976
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,919
Speaker 3: organic friends. Most of these people at the party, maybe

977
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 3: not all of them, are also people living second lives.

978
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 3: They're also born yes, they're also reborns. And they're like,

979
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 3: you're gonna spoil this for all of us if, like

980
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 3: the company gets exposed, if we get found out too,

981
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 3: you got to shut up. And you got to think

982
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 3: that that also sort of cheapens it for him, right,

983
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 3: that like all of his so called friends are also frauds.

984
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

985
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 3: So this leads to a break where he ends up

986
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 3: going back to visit his wife. As rock Hudson. He

987
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 3: doesn't say like, hey, you know, I'm your husband, remember me.

988
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 3: She is still going on under the impression that her

989
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 3: husband died in a fire in a hotel room, which

990
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 3: is what the company staged for him and Rock Hudson.

991
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 3: He pretends to be a friend of her late husband's,

992
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 3: and so he goes to visit the house and speaks

993
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 3: to her, I think he's like, hey, you know, I

994
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 3: maybe wanted I'm a painter and I wanted to paint

995
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 3: a portrait of your husband because he was a friend

996
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 3: of mine. He also asks about the watercolors. He's like,

997
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 3: you know your husband's watercolors? Do you still have them?

998
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 3: And it's interesting there's an unresolved thing from this conversation.

999
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 3: I wonder what you made of this where she's like, oh,

1000
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 3: the watercolors. Yeah, and he's like, did you get rid

1001
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 3: of them? And she says not exactly.

1002
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was expecting there to be some follow up,

1003
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: like maybe she donated them somewhere or they were painted over.

1004
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, because in a sense, I mean, his

1005
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: life has been painted over, right, But yeah, yeah, we

1006
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:05,959
Speaker 1: don't get the second beat on that really.

1007
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 3: But she actually in the scene has insights about her

1008
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 3: late husband, very cutting ones, the kind of thing that

1009
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,399
Speaker 3: you know, she never would have said to him when

1010
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 3: she thought he was alive, And she says that she

1011
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 3: thinks he spent his life trying to acquire what he

1012
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 3: had been taught to want, you know, a good job,

1013
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 3: a steady income, a nice home, a family, and yet

1014
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 3: he was deeply unsatisfied, she says, that it was like

1015
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 3: there was something he always wanted to say, but he

1016
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 3: couldn't say it. He was just holding it in. And

1017
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 3: in the background in this scene, we know that now

1018
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 3: he's gotten all of the things that he yearned for

1019
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,439
Speaker 3: when he was unsatisfied with his previous life, the life

1020
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 3: he had when he pursued what he had been taught

1021
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 3: to want. So there's the second order thing, the things

1022
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 3: he thinks he really wanted, his genuine one, good looks, glamour,

1023
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 3: artistic expression, excitement, sex, drugs, bacchanalia. And yet we can

1024
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 3: tell that he is not at all happy by acquiring

1025
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 3: these things either. There is a deep hollowness and fraudulence

1026
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 3: and anxiety at the core of his new existence. So

1027
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 3: his wife sends him away with a memento of her

1028
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 3: late husband. It's his tennis trophy, which is is a

1029
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 3: callback to a scene earlier where when his friend Charlie

1030
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 3: called him on the phone and said, hey, you know

1031
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 3: this is really me. You can know because look on

1032
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 3: the underside of our tennis trophy from the doubles tournament.

1033
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 3: We carved this into the bottom. I think it's like,

1034
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 3: you know, fidelis Eternia or something, and So when Antiochus

1035
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 3: Wilson leaves the house, he is picked up by John,

1036
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 3: the valet from the company, in a car and he says,

1037
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,919
Speaker 3: I want to go back, and John says, of course, sir.

1038
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 3: He says, no, no, no, I don't mean to California.

1039
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 3: I want to go back to the company. I want

1040
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 3: to start again again. Is it possible, Anti kis Wilson

1041
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 3: can die, can't he? And John says, I think that

1042
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 3: can be arranged, sir. So they go back to the

1043
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 3: company and here Rock Hudson meets with his caseworker and

1044
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 3: they explained to him, yeah, we can set you up

1045
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 3: with a new life once again. You know, sometimes this happens.

1046
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 3: People are not satisfied with their second life. They need another.

1047
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 3: But before we do that, we do need you to

1048
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 3: do something for us. We would ask you to sponsor

1049
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 3: someone else for our programs. Someone you know obviously, you

1050
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 3: know you must know tons of people who would be

1051
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 3: good candidates. We just need you to give us a name,

1052
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 3: somebody we can get in touch with, and we might

1053
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 3: need you to stay on hand to help them, maybe

1054
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 3: make some phone calls to them to make sure that

1055
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 3: you know that they end up in our care. And

1056
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 3: this makes sense because they can't add what they do

1057
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 3: is illegal. They can't advertise on the news in the newspaper.

1058
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 3: They have to operate on a personal referral basis. And

1059
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 3: here it becomes clear there was a payoff of a

1060
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 3: waiting room that Arthur Hamilton went into earlier in the movie.

1061
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 3: That's full of men just sitting around, playing cards, reading books,

1062
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 3: hanging out, just seemingly waiting, you know, wiling away the hours.

1063
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 3: Here we meet Murray Hamilton and it turns out this

1064
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 3: is this is Arthur Hamilton's old friend, Charlie, the guy

1065
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 3: from school, except of course he looks nothing like him.

1066
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 3: He has had a second, second life a he is

1067
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 3: a reborn by this company. But it turned out he

1068
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 3: also needed another chance. He also needed to start over again,

1069
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 3: but he couldn't do that until he fulfilled his duty

1070
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 3: for referring Arthur Hamilton here, and they'd had him on

1071
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 3: hand so he could continue making phone calls to him

1072
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 3: and helping him get settled in.

1073
00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1074
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a great vibe with the day roun because

1075
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: we saw the dayroom earlier and we saw everyone it

1076
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 1: looked like more like they were working or studying. And

1077
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 1: now we realize they're just passing the time, and we

1078
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: also see that they're being given little cups of medication

1079
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 1: to help them pass the time, and that it's this

1080
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: kind of limbo between lives with all of them clear

1081
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 1: they are waiting for their next chance to get their

1082
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 1: third life, or perhaps their fourth or fifth, who knows.

1083
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't know how many times. So but now

1084
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 3: finally the mayor from Jaws is going to get another shot.

1085
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 3: Whatever he blew the last one for some reason, it

1086
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 3: is not what he wanted, so he's going to get

1087
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 3: another one. But now this is where this is where

1088
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 3: Rock Hudson is stuck. And so they say, okay, that's fine,

1089
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 3: we can give you another one, but we do need

1090
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 3: you to refer somebody first, And the problem is he refuses.

1091
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 3: He's like, I can't think of anybody to refer. I'm sorry,

1092
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 3: and he's really hung up on he's got to have

1093
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 3: another chance at a new life because he screwed up

1094
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 3: the first one, and you know, he just wanted what

1095
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 3: people taught him to want. The second time, he wanted

1096
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 3: something else, but he didn't do it right. Something wasn't

1097
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 3: right about it. But the third time, then he'll get it,

1098
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 3: then he'll really fulfill his desires.

1099
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, he expresses that he on his second life, he

1100
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: also didn't have input in it like the first life. Yeah,

1101
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: he didn't have input into what he should want. And

1102
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 1: the second time around, like what did they do? They

1103
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 1: kind of drug some things out of him during hypnosis,

1104
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 1: constructed something for him, and then put him into that slot,

1105
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 1: and so he kind of he felt ultimately trapped in

1106
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 1: an artificial place once more, and he thinks, well, this

1107
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: next time, I want lots of input into it. I

1108
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 1: have ideas. Let's work together so that this can work.

1109
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 3: But they keep asking him, you know, we got to

1110
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 3: get a referral. You got to give us somebody, and

1111
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 3: he doesn't. He's just like, I can't think of anybody.

1112
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 3: So then we are finally let after he refuses multiple times,

1113
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 3: he's led to another meeting with the old Man by

1114
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:03,479
Speaker 3: Will Gear, who he spoke to earlier the first time

1115
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 3: he was in the building belonging to the company. Will

1116
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 3: Gear is very good in this role because he's very folksy,

1117
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 3: and he's very soft spoken, and he's just like a sweet,

1118
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 3: sweet old man who talks about his dream of giving

1119
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 3: people what they really want. He knows that so many

1120
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 3: people live lives of kind of quiet misery that they

1121
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 3: just can't can't really commit to living the lives they

1122
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 3: know they should be living, and he wanted to create

1123
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 3: the opportunity for people to have that chance. But then

1124
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 3: he also gets a little real He's like, you know,

1125
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 3: so that is the ideal under which I started the company.

1126
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 3: But the fact is, you know, now we have a

1127
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 3: lot of employees, and we got to make payroll, and

1128
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 3: we have shareholders, and we've got to meet our obligations

1129
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 3: to shareholders. So if we don't have an ongoing you know,

1130
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 3: basis of new referrals coming in, we really can't keep

1131
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 3: doing what we're doing. In order to make the dream work.

1132
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 3: We gotta have money coming in, So you got to

1133
01:02:58,280 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 3: refer somebody.

1134
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Again, is basically as he puts it is is

1135
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 1: to end human suffering, like he has this, and I

1136
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: think that's one of the great things about the Old

1137
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 1: Man particularly, but the company as a whole, well, there's

1138
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: almost everything about it is sinister and at times very cold,

1139
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: and very also very you know, corporate and so forth.

1140
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 1: It is presented as if like at in its roots anyway,

1141
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 1: it is trying to help people.

1142
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 3: Will geartt. Yeah, he at least thinks he is trying

1143
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 3: to help people. But then, of course, you know, once

1144
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 3: you start, once you start a business, it kind of

1145
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 3: has a it has hungers of its own, like you

1146
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 3: got to you got to keep the lights on. So

1147
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 3: they need the referrals, and he doesn't give them the referrals,

1148
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 3: so they're like, okay, well that's all right. And then

1149
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 3: this leads up to the ending, the the shocking, horrifying

1150
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 3: ending where they strap rock huts into a gurney. He

1151
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 3: thinks he is being taken off to his next plastic

1152
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 3: surgery to get a whole new face, a whole new body,

1153
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 3: a whole new identity again, and it turns out no,

1154
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 3: they are taking him off to become one of the

1155
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 3: cadavers that will be used to fake the death of

1156
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 3: a new applicant.

1157
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh god, it's there's there. It really builds up

1158
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: to because at first he's like, where we go? We're

1159
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: going to my surgery. It's too soon because you know,

1160
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 1: we didn't talk through all the details. You know, I

1161
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 1: really I have ideas, you guys have ideas, you know,

1162
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: I want to make sure we're doing it right this time,

1163
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: and they're reassuring him, but then is there going It's

1164
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 1: fabulously shot, this strange hallway that they're going down. I

1165
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 1: can only imagine that some of the gurney scenes in

1166
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: Jacob's Ladder that would come many many many years later,

1167
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: or perhaps referring back to this sequence, because you know,

1168
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 1: at first, he's you know, he's just expressing his you know,

1169
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 1: concerns over it, and then it becomes clear that this

1170
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 1: priest perhaps that is speaking to him, is basically administering

1171
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 1: last rites.

1172
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 3: Yes, it is hard for me to commune Kate, how chilling.

1173
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 3: The last few minutes of this movie are one of

1174
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:07,919
Speaker 3: the most shocking, unsettling things I've ever seen in film.

1175
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, because when he begins to realize what's really happening,

1176
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 1: he begins to struggle. They jump, they like strap his

1177
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 1: mouth closed, and he continues to fight and scream horribly

1178
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 1: for what feels like fifteen minutes or so. It's a

1179
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 1: lot as they drag him off to the death room.

1180
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:30,439
Speaker 1: And I kept thinking, well, they're going to stop out

1181
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 1: the way, We're going to fade away or cut away

1182
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: as they roll them into that room, and they don't.

1183
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 1: We go into the death room with him, and there

1184
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:41,920
Speaker 1: is the doctor from earlier, his plastic surgeon, and he explains,

1185
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 1: you know, like, yeah, you were my best work. I

1186
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 1: really nailed it.

1187
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 3: I made a rock Hudson out of you.

1188
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 1: I made rock Hudson out of you. And I hate

1189
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 1: to see this work, you know, go down the drain

1190
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 1: and then we go. We follow the scene right through,

1191
01:05:56,360 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 1: like the cranial drilling of our main character as they

1192
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 1: drill the life out of him, and we get like

1193
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 1: the final sort of like death, desire, hallucination, and it

1194
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 1: is a scene what of presumably either him and his

1195
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: daughter on the beach with a red ball, or perhaps

1196
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 1: it is some other scene. Maybe you could interpret it

1197
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 1: as him and a parental unit on the beach with

1198
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 1: a red ball, like you know, it's I guess it's

1199
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 1: abstract like that, but like this, I guess was the

1200
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 1: true desire. You know, this was you know, deep down

1201
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 1: in him, like this is the most honest part, the

1202
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 1: purest part of his life, and it's the last thing

1203
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 1: we see. You know.

1204
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 3: It made me think about how so once I saw

1205
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 3: the ending, I was like, oh, okay, now I think

1206
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 3: I understand because the ending of the movie feels so bad.

1207
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 3: I understand why some people hated this movie and thought

1208
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 3: it was like cold and awful. I think it's actually

1209
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 3: quite brilliant. But I think the film and I'm not

1210
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 3: at all saying it should have done this. I'm just

1211
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 3: saying imagining a different movie that could have been. I

1212
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 3: think the ending would have felt very different if there

1213
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 3: was some character in it somewhere who got it, who

1214
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 3: figured out the I don't know what the correct desire is,

1215
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:16,240
Speaker 3: the desire that that one can have in order to

1216
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 3: find true happiness, And the movie does not give an

1217
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 3: answer on that. It doesn't. It just shows It shows

1218
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 3: you lots of failures of wisdom and failures to understand ourselves,

1219
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 3: and the pitfalls of desire and the hollowness of desire.

1220
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 3: But it never shows you the right way. It never

1221
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 3: provides the solution. So so you you know, you're not

1222
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 3: given like that sort of ladder out of the pit

1223
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 3: of despair.

1224
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no there's no Buddha in this film. And

1225
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 1: I thought for a little bit they were setting our

1226
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 1: main character up to be a kind of Buddha that

1227
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 1: he would realize that. Essentially, in the day room, you

1228
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:55,720
Speaker 1: have these characters that are going in and out of incarnations.

1229
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 1: It's very much like the Buddhist Wheel of Semsara in

1230
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 1: the real is that like everything is just a cycle

1231
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 1: of life and death and rebirth, and that the only

1232
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 1: way to find true liberation is to remove yourself from

1233
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 1: that cycle. But there is no such revelation in this

1234
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:16,600
Speaker 1: film because ultimately he's like, give me another shot. I

1235
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:18,679
Speaker 1: think the next shot is it. I think the next

1236
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 1: shot will be better, and he just commits to the

1237
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:23,919
Speaker 1: wheel and that is undoing.

1238
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:27,080
Speaker 3: Well in a way, I think this film is extremely

1239
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:30,040
Speaker 3: compatible with Buddhist ideals, Like I think that is sort

1240
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 3: of the wisdom of the movie. But there's no character

1241
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 3: who embodies that realization. You only see the characters who

1242
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 3: are who fail and just like you know, are are

1243
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:45,919
Speaker 3: slavering after their their next desire.

1244
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, they're all all hungry ghosts.

1245
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 3: So the ending is bleak, dark, shocking. It does not

1246
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:56,440
Speaker 3: feel good at all, but I think is quite powerful,

1247
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:59,600
Speaker 3: and I want to make clear again, I don't I

1248
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:01,400
Speaker 3: don't think I would change it. I don't think I

1249
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 3: would prefer the film with the character who does get

1250
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 3: it or does embody sort of the wisdom of the

1251
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 3: movie's message.

1252
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, I think it's it's perfect as is.

1253
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 1: I like the direction they ended up going in. I'm

1254
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:17,559
Speaker 1: I didn't even look into it. I'm assuming this is

1255
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 1: the basic direction of the novel as well, but perhaps

1256
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 1: it goes in a different direction. I'm also I'm also

1257
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 1: a little shocked that no one has remade this film,

1258
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:29,719
Speaker 1: or certainly maybe not as a as a motion picture.

1259
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:31,679
Speaker 1: But it seems like the kind of thing that someone

1260
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:35,960
Speaker 1: could pick up for some sort of a television series,

1261
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 1: you know, especially nowadays thinking of the success of things

1262
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 1: like Severance and so forth. There's a lot you could

1263
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 1: do with seconds. But on the other hand, as we

1264
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,599
Speaker 1: often say with films that really nail something, I don't

1265
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 1: really want to see someone else come in and perhaps

1266
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:56,200
Speaker 1: screw it up. This this film doesn't need to be reborn.

1267
01:09:56,720 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 1: As I mentioned the other day, off off my my

1268
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 1: one caveat would be this would have made a great

1269
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 1: tree House of Horror episode if the Simpsons had done

1270
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 1: a send up of this with Homer Simpson or I

1271
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 1: don't know, there are various other Simpsons characters that might

1272
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:14,840
Speaker 1: have been ideal for this treatment, but I can imagine

1273
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: at least the old Days of the Simpson Treehouse of Horror.

1274
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 1: They could have they could have done this up really nicely.

1275
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:22,519
Speaker 3: First life, you're Ned Flanders, Second life, you're Troy McClure.

1276
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 3: Third well, third life, you know you refer Homer and

1277
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 3: you get to go be somebody else, you get to

1278
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 3: be Auto.

1279
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:33,599
Speaker 1: Finally, yeah, yeah, all right, Well that is seconds from

1280
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:38,639
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six. Yeah, terrific picture. Not for the Week

1281
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: of Heart, not for someone expecting just kind of a

1282
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, an easy going psychological horror film. This

1283
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,880
Speaker 1: one has a lot going on in it, so obviously

1284
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear anyone's thoughts out there about the film.

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Speaker 1: You know, what's your interpretation of its message? What do

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Speaker 1: you think about some of the choices here and the

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Speaker 1: performance and the sinemography and so forth. Right in we'd

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Speaker 1: love to hear from you. We discuss listener mail from

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Speaker 1: everything we do here in the Stuff to Blowing Mind

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Speaker 1: podcast feed on our Monday listener mail episodes. Our Core

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01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:16,559
Speaker 1: science episodes air on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Wednesdays, we

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01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:20,120
Speaker 1: do a short form monster fact or Artifact episode, and

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01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:22,840
Speaker 1: on Fridays we set aside most serious concerns even though

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty serious movie and many respects for Weird

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Speaker 1: House cinema. And if you want to see a full

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Speaker 1: list of the movies we've covered over the over the

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Speaker 1: years here, you can go to letterbox dot com. That's

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Speaker 1: L E T T E R B O x D

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Speaker 1: dot com. We have an account there. Our username is

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01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 1: weird House and you'll find a list of everything we've covered.

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01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:43,720
Speaker 1: And that website allows you to do a lot of

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01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:47,599
Speaker 1: really cool things too, like organized by decades and years

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01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:50,840
Speaker 1: and genres. So check it out. It's a it's a

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01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:51,839
Speaker 1: neat little tool.

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Speaker 3: Huge thanks to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If

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Speaker 3: you would like to get in touch with us with

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Speaker 3: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest topic

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Speaker 3: for the future, or just to say hello, you can

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Speaker 3: email us at contact at stuff to Blow Yourmind dot com.

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Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

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Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.