1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: dot com. Yankee Doodle, Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles Um Spirit of seventies 4 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: six Bryant and Jerry Bicentennial Baby Roland. And I'm Josh. 5 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: Like I said, Jerry wishes she was a bicentennial baby. Yes, 6 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: she does, both of y'all. Do I know, man, i'd 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: be five years younger. That's exactly where I am, squarely 8 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: in the bi centennial baby year. Oh that's right. I 9 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: demand people refer to me as such when I'm out 10 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: in public. Dr bi Centennial Baby Clark. Ye. So how 11 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: are you feeling pretty good? Good man? We should probably 12 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: say thank you to all the people who came out 13 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: for our West Coast jaunt. Yeah, that's a good idea, 14 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: Chuck last week, so big thanks to Seattle, Portland in 15 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: San Francisco for Stuff you Should Know shows, and then 16 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: everyone who came out for movie Crushing Into the World Live. Yes, 17 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: thank you to everybody for all those jams we had. 18 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: We had like really good crowds and good responses everywhere 19 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: we went. How did you think go? I was drunk 20 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: in Wine Country? It went really well. I was tense 21 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: and on stage and Cafe do Nord. Actually it went 22 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: well when I went out, so it's like it includes 23 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: like a presentation, right, a visual audio visual thing. And 24 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: I could not get it to start working for a 25 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: good fifteen seconds, which which in my mind was a 26 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: good fifteen minutes, and I was like, if you've all 27 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: ever wanted to see someone die of fright on stage? 28 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: But I got it working and it went well from there. 29 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: But the thing that got me the most was they 30 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: sat around for thirty more minutes after the show asking questions, 31 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: so they were really into it and it meant a 32 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 1: lot to me. Thank you, and um we I haven't 33 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: been to Brooklyn yet, but this will come out after 34 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: the Brooklyn show, and I'm just going to know, actually 35 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: will come out probably the day of the Brooklyn show. 36 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: I'll hold my thanks for then we'll see how it 37 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,959 Speaker 1: goes Brooklyn. Great, congratulations. How did yours go with Busy Phillips? 38 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: It was good. It was fun. She's super nice and uh, 39 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 1: I only made a couple of really terrible jokes and 40 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: I will cut those out. Oh you gotta leave them in. 41 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: Were they that bad? Now? Yeah, they were pretty bad. Okay, 42 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: like dad jokes are like super offensive jokes. So one 43 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: which evidently Emily said I said the wrong word, which 44 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: explains why it made no sense because she even asked 45 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: me a straight She was like, what was up with 46 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: that one joke? It's like what? And I told her 47 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: and she was like, no, no, no, that's not what 48 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: you said. I was like, oh, I don't, won't say 49 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: it here, but it it explained a lot. You gotta 50 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: tell me later. Okay, yeah, I'll totally tell you. Okay, cool, 51 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: But what about the other one? Was it a dad joke? Uh? No, 52 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: just dumb Okay, I gotta keep the image up. I 53 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: know it's mean, man, sure, but otherwise it'll be although 54 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: I don't I got the file today and like the 55 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: last twenty minutes of it aren't there. So I emailed 56 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: them and they're like, please tell me this is not all. 57 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: So it may be a truncated version. I don't know. 58 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: I don't know. We'll see the lost episode is what 59 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 1: they call. Um. Okay, well, good, good, congratulations. I'm glad. 60 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: Aside from the file snaffood and those two bad jokes, 61 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: otherwise it was great. Uh and we're gonna go back 62 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: out on the road sometimes soon. We decided this year, right, Yeah, 63 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: we're figuring it out. Hopefully another like nine is shows 64 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: maybe the course of this year. Sure, places we've never been, 65 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: places we have been. Who knows, we're gonna mix it up. Yeah, yeah, 66 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: so keep an ear out for that. We've learned. Now 67 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: we're just straight up going to put that in the 68 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: beginnings of episodes. No messing around anymore, no messing around. Okay, 69 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: So all of that, of course seguys quite nicely into 70 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: the story of Betsy Ross and the American flags origin 71 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: broad I don't know that's necessarily true. I don't think 72 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: that's the official historical stance, but I think a better 73 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: way to say it. Chuck is questioned, and hey, just 74 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: a great story for history. So who cares if it's true? Yeah, 75 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: Layoff puts no. No. The person who's like, you know, 76 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: said fraud. I guess. Uh. So let's well, I mean, 77 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: let's get into this because, uh, the first thing that 78 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: you will probably say, if you're a um Betsy Ross believer, 79 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: she was a real person, by the way, Yeah, I 80 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: think the first thing a lot of our listeners around 81 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,559 Speaker 1: the world will say was is who is Betsy Ross? Sure, 82 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: well she is credited, which is where I was going 83 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:50,679 Speaker 1: with the Uh the sort of creation, design and sewing 84 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: of the first flag thanks to a lot of things, 85 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: but certainly held up by a very famous painting called 86 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: the Birth of Our Nation's Flag by Charles is Weisberger. 87 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: Very famous painting. Yeah, but it's one of those paintings. 88 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: It's like super old timing where there's a lot of 89 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: written explanation painted into the painting. M hm. I just 90 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: find that's just there's nothing more old timey than that. Uh. Well, sure, 91 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting this, he says, something along the line 92 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: an award. Well, I don't have anything prepared, he said, Um, 93 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: this is uh. The national standard was made by Betsy 94 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: Ross in seventeen seventy six at two three Niner Art Street, Philadelphia, 95 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: in the room represented in this picture. That's a lot 96 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: of words, but it goes on still. The committee Robert 97 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: Morris and Honorable George Ross, accompanied by General George Washington, 98 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: called upon this celebrated woman, and together with her suggestions, 99 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: produced our beautiful emblem of Liberty. So what do you 100 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: guys do in this weekend? I was thinking about maybe 101 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: going roller skating, I know, it hasn't been invented yet 102 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: because it's only eighteen seventies something, and he actually wrote 103 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: out eighteen seventies something, and then he said, how about 104 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: this new country pretty neat? Huh, right, And that just 105 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: kind of trails off from there. It ends there. It's 106 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: a lot. It's a really wordy painting. Frankly, it is 107 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 1: very wordy, but that that helps sort of cement the 108 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: idea that Betsy Ross was in fact the designer and 109 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: creator and seamstress. I guess for the first flag. Well, 110 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to take issue on behalf of some of 111 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: our more historically astute listeners and say, she I don't 112 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: think she's credited with designing the flag. I think that's 113 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: the one thing that everybody agrees on, is that she 114 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: is not given credit for designing it. She's she's given 115 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: credit for create, like physically creating the first flag and 116 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: then helping with some troubleshooting in the early design. Oh, 117 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: you should go to an elementary school. Why are they 118 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: teaching otherwise? Sure? Is that right? Yeah, it's all created 119 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: by Betsy Ross. Fraud. It's not true. What wait, which 120 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: part is not to the thing? You said? Her? The thing? 121 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: I just said neither one. Okay, but we should talk 122 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: about the real Betsy Ross because she was a real lady. Um, 123 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: she's not an apparition or a visage. Uh. She was 124 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: born in seventeen fifty two on New Year's Day. She's 125 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: a New Year's Day baby supposedly, Um, I think that's documented. Yeah. Probably. 126 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Griscombe was her name. Born to Samuel and Rebecca 127 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, and her great grand pappy Andrew Griscombe, was 128 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: a very notable Philadelphian. He was one of the first 129 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: settlers in a carpenter in like built apparently a lot 130 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: of Philadelphia's first buildings. Yeah, which is I mean that's 131 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: that's pretty prominent for um that that time, because I mean, 132 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: this is when the whole place is being settled, and 133 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: it's being settled by Quakers. So um, like Pennsylvania is 134 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: a Quaker settlement. And that's how Elizabeth Griscomb a k a. 135 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: Betsy Ross, Which makes you think like she she robbed 136 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: banks later in life and went on the lamb and 137 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: changed her name. Not true, you'll see it's it'll all 138 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: become a parent in a second. But she was raised 139 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: as a strict Quaker in Pennsylvania, right, one of nine 140 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: children who grew to adulthood, but her parents had seventeen kids. Dude, 141 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: that is so many kids. Man. Well, the Quakers take 142 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: like keeping their faith going by multiplying. Seriously. I mean, 143 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: that's like how a lot of religious groups are. Um, 144 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: they do it two fold. They reproduce a lot, and 145 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: they also try to make sure that they're they're members 146 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 1: who are born into their their groups marry other members 147 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: born in the group so that they will raise more 148 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: uh Quakers or what have you, and whatever the religious 149 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: group is. And actually Betsy ran a foul this later on, 150 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: as we'll see. She was a bit of a rebel. Yeah. 151 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: And also imagine Samuel as a Quaker was like, you know, 152 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: it's very fun procreation, and his wife was like, it's 153 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: not as fun for me. He's such a great like 154 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: eighteenth century Quaker impression maybe the best I've ever heard. 155 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: This is the one thing we're allowed to do that's good. Well. 156 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: They so the Quakers actually had a really really liberal society, 157 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: Like there was a lot of equality, there was a 158 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: lot of um. It was a very They were a 159 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: very peaceful group and still are their pacifists through and 160 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: through um. But they also were really strict morally, like 161 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: if you were in a play, you could be fine 162 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: twenty shillings and spend ten days ten days in jail 163 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: for being in a play because it was just kind 164 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: of frivolous and not very religious. But on the other hand, um, 165 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 1: they all drank like fish. Um, you just weren't allowed 166 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: to sell it to like the Native Americans, because they 167 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: equated that with corrupting them. Now of some Quakers, Oh yeah, sure, nice. 168 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: Do you I think we used to work with one, 169 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: didn't we? Yes, yes, so I think we know the 170 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: same Quakers probably, But now I'm wondering. First of all, 171 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: I was about to shout out the name. Then I 172 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: was like should I not? Then I was like, why wouldn't, 173 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: I said, the whole thing happened, Why would I Yeah, exactly, 174 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 1: And then you thought fraud. Well, some people like to 175 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: keep their stuff personal, so I'm just I'm not gonna 176 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: do that. Under the table Quaker is what that that is. 177 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: But they're they're also called the Society of Friends, I 178 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: think is the greatest name for any religious group of 179 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: all time, right founded by six year olds. Society Society 180 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,319 Speaker 1: of Best Winds Um all right, so they're in Pennsylvania. 181 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: The one thing that we do know is that her 182 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: nickname was Betsy h And when she was about fifteen 183 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: she did learn to sew very well. She was an 184 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: apprentice to an upholster named John Webster, and this is 185 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: where she learned her craft. Right and um, when you 186 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: think of like you always hear of Betsy Ross being 187 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: a seamstress, right, she was not a seamstress. She was, 188 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: like you just said, an upholsterer, which involved a lot 189 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: more than say dressmaking. As a matter of fact, I'm 190 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: sure she did make clothes here there she knew how to, 191 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: but mostly her stuff was on like sewing curtains and 192 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: tablecloths and rugs and like other textiles, um, rather than 193 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: like actual clothing. So she was in upholsterer three and through. 194 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: So it seems stress specifically clothing. That's the impression I have. Interesting. 195 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: I feel like such a fraud because I didn't look 196 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: up the difference between the two. But that's that's my 197 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: take on it. I'm gonna find out also, chook umbrellas, 198 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: Venetian blinds and flags, that's something in a pholsterer would 199 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 1: have made back in the eighteenth century. Apparently a seamstress 200 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: is any woman who sews well. Then I wonder if 201 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: aupholsterer is a specialty of a seamstress then yeah, probably 202 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: so okay. And what is a man whoso is called 203 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 1: a seamster? Maybe never never thought about that. And if 204 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: he's in the union, he's a seamster teamster. Oh, Dad, 205 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: I know it's gotten really bad. Maybe we'll have Jerry 206 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: cut that out to keep my public inventory. Uh So, 207 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: while she was doing this work, she met a man 208 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: named John Ross, not the last name. And he was 209 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 1: also an apprentice, and he was good at it, and 210 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: he opened his own shop, and he was sort of 211 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: I mean, he came he came from a well connected family. Uh. 212 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,359 Speaker 1: And that his actual uncle, George you might have recognized 213 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: from that painting, George Ross Jr. He was He signed 214 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: the Declaration of Independence, right, so that's legit. Oh yeah, 215 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: he was a he was big time. He was um 216 00:12:53,559 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: I think a representative for UM for Pennsylvania and the legislature, 217 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: either Pennsylvania or New Jersey, one of the two. He was. 218 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: He was a big wig. If he's hanging out with 219 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: George Washington and Betsy Ross's upholstery shop. Then he was 220 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: a big wig, that's right, a big powdered wig by 221 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: the way. So so this her marriage to John Ross. 222 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: It didn't last very long, um, although it was um 223 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: kind of marked by that like younger younger age radicalism 224 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: where she So John Ross was an Anglican, right, Yeah, 225 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: he wasn't a Quaker, which was bad, right, So they 226 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: fell in love. He was in a pholster as well, 227 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: and um, John Ross and Bets Betsy later Betsy Ross. 228 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: When they met and fell in love, they had to 229 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: elope to New Jersey, which everybody does, the Elope to 230 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: New Jersey, um, because her parents were like, you cannot 231 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: do that, and she said, well I'm doing it, and 232 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: they said, well then you're out. And she went off 233 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: and got married and she was, um, ex excommunicated is 234 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: not the way I think that's specifically Catholic. But she 235 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: was kicked out of the Quakers and her parents, her 236 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: family disowned her. So she definitely loved the guy went 237 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: off and followed her heart and they made sweet upholstery 238 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: together because he opened his own shop. Actually, yeah, it's 239 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: really sad though. I mean, it's great that they found 240 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: each other, but it's anytime someone's like expelled and disowned 241 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: by their family, it's just sort of of her religions 242 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: a sad thing, Yeah it is. Or yeah, for any 243 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: reason really, you know, like bringing shame or dishonner. It's 244 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: like it's your family that's supposed to They're supposed to 245 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: be there for you no matter what, but it doesn't 246 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: always work out that way. Which which was which Chuck 247 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: means that family is what you make of it. I 248 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: thought family, what was it? Never trust family, Never trust family, 249 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: but specifically blood family. Okay. Um, So the Revolutionary War 250 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: comes along and in Philadelphia, um, people were you know, 251 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: kind of getting together forming militias in order to you know, 252 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: defend the city in case in case things went down, 253 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: And no one knows for sure what was going on 254 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: with John and Betsy, but we do know that he died. 255 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: We just don't know quite how. Yeah. They think maybe 256 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: it was either an accident um or a death from 257 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: being in the militia, or there's there's supposedly, uh family 258 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: rumor that he may have suffered from mental illness and 259 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: may have died as a result of something some complication 260 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: from that. Yeah. It's really sad though, because that was 261 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: obviously her true love enough to to leave her family 262 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: in religion. And she was widowed in seventeen seventy six, 263 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: just what three years later after they got married. Yep, 264 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: so so it was just three years after, right, Yeah, okay, 265 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: So when she was a widow that that radicalism I 266 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier started to kick in. She um went back 267 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: to Quakers. Um, if she ever left, I don't. I've 268 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: never seen that she began attending like Anglican mass or anything. 269 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: But she went back to the Quakers. But she joined 270 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: a group, a specific group of Quakers called the Free 271 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: Quakers or Fighting Quakers, who were like, yeah, we're Quakers, 272 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: but we also are not crazy into pacifism because well, yeah, 273 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: we will shoved me back, shoved me and see what happens. Um, 274 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: and uh that was what they wore on their on 275 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: their shirts. But um oh man. But um, the reason 276 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: that they were anti pacifists because they wanted to support 277 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: independence and then there was going to be a fight, 278 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: a struggle for independence, and you couldn't really side with 279 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: one side and and not and be a pacifist. Basically. Yeah, 280 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: remember our pacifism episode. That was a good one. Yeah, 281 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: that was a good one, so she uh was once 282 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: again unlucky in love. She got married again to a 283 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: man named Joseph ashburn He died in prison and in Britain, 284 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: and then she finally got married a third time to 285 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: a man named John Claypool will and she was married 286 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: to him until he died. But this was like twenty 287 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: years this time. You want you want to know how 288 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:11,719 Speaker 1: She and John Claypool met at her second husband's funeral 289 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 1: almost okay, he showed up bar afterwards. John Claypool even 290 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 1: even more even sooner than that. John Claypool was imprisoned 291 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: with Joseph Ashburne over in Great Britain, and after he 292 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,959 Speaker 1: got out, he made his way over to America. And 293 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: he's the one who brought Betsy Ross the news that 294 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,959 Speaker 1: her husband had died. And then he, I guess he 295 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: was like, so you're doing all right? Can I Can 296 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: I be of any assistance for you? And rather than 297 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: just being there for her, he took away before her 298 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: and he was just there. I wonder if he was like, 299 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: by the way, your husband's last words were totally you 300 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: should go marry my wife. That's the that's what they 301 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: used to do back in the day. So she worked 302 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: as an upholster until she died at the age of 303 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: four and eighteen thirty six. She had five little girls, 304 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: which is kind of great. And aside from that, that's 305 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: kind of what we know about Betsy Ross. Um, as 306 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: far as the facts go, Yeah, that's about where they 307 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: run out. And you might say, listener, well guys, you 308 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: left out the most important one, the most important fact, 309 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,880 Speaker 1: the story of her sewing the American flag. Well, well, 310 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: we're going to stick by what we just said and 311 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: say that we just ran out of facts, which means 312 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: it's pretty good time for a message break, don't you think. 313 00:18:32,800 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: Charles agreed, We'll be right back. Okay, So it's about 314 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: here that we should kind of go over the Betsy 315 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: Ross legend because what we just described as in eighteen 316 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: early nineteenth century American woman who was a Quaker and 317 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 1: an upholsterer, and her love life and her children, her offspring. Yes, 318 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: that's it, that's all we've got. Um. So the flag story, 319 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: for those of you who aren't familiar with this, is 320 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: that when Betsy Ross was hanging around her upholstery shop 321 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: one day in Philadelphia and I believe seventeen seventy six, 322 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: I think June seventeen seventy six when they say it happened. 323 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: Three men came in that trio, including George Washington, George Ross, 324 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 1: who was um remember her first husband's uncle, and then 325 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: a man named Robert Morris, who was a wealthy man 326 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: known as the financier of the Revolution and considered one 327 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: of the founders of the US financials system. These three 328 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: come in, very very important men, and as legend goes, 329 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: Betsy Ross recognized George Washington immediately and they said, Ms Ross, 330 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: we need your help. We we have to. We're part 331 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: of the Continental Congress's Flag Committee and we've been tasked 332 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: with coming up with the flag. Will you help us 333 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: create this flag? And she basically said, let me see 334 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: what you got. Yeah, she said, well, first of all, 335 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 1: my husband passed away six months ago, so why are 336 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: you bothering me of all people, right, And Uncle George 337 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: was like, I know, but you're still family. You still 338 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: got Ross on your name, and this will make for 339 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: a good story later, right. So she looks at the 340 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: design and she said, this is not bad, she said, 341 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: but you may want to change the proportions a bit. 342 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: And her real and and this is kind of the 343 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: one thing that I think most historians do agree on 344 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: is that her one big change design wise was changing 345 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: the star from a six pointer to a five pointer. 346 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: Right if you if you agree that that Betsy Ross 347 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: did have a hand in making the original flag, then yeah, 348 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: you would probably say that's probably correct. And apparently just 349 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: because it was easier on her to cut. Yeah, I 350 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: think though that they were saying, like, five pointed stars 351 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: would be harder than a six point star, and she 352 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: said no, no, and like whipped out her scissors and 353 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: cut up some either cloth or paper and showed them 354 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 1: how easy it wasn't They're like, oh, that's beautiful. And 355 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: George Westington was like, are we still talking about this? 356 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: Can we go? He's like, why am I in the 357 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: bulstry shop? Why am I in the story? It doesn't 358 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: even make sense that I would be here? Oh save that? 359 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: So um, they said, sure, that's fine. Easier to cut. 360 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: You've proved it, even though George Ross was over there 361 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: trying to cut the six and prove her wrong. The 362 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 1: sun went down, came back up, he was missing a fingertip, 363 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: and so they said that that that's fine, let's just 364 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: do it, and uh, they draw up the new sketch. Uh. 365 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: They incorporate her her new star, and they said, get 366 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: to it, kind lady, and she did, and it's a 367 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:14,719 Speaker 1: It was a big flag. It wasn't like this was 368 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: when they were gonna fly, you know, out in public, 369 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: so it wasn't like a little tester flag. So it 370 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: took a while and what it would It took a 371 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: few days maybe, and she finally says, here's what I've 372 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: got and they say, this is great. Let's see how 373 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: it looks on a on the mast of a ship. 374 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 1: They hoisted it up a ship and they said, all right, 375 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: I think we're good to go here everyone. Basically, that's it. 376 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: You know, it's just occurred to me, Chuck, is how 377 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: closely our History episodes resemble Drunk History episode except for 378 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: sober right ish um? But the uh so the flag 379 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: is it's been proven on this mass of the ship. 380 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: It looks beautiful. And they go back to Betsy Ross 381 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: and they say, Betsy, we're gonna need a lot more 382 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: of these. And the implication is commerce takes over and 383 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: Betsy becomes wealthy and secures her her her place as 384 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: one of the the important figures of early American history. 385 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: That's right. Uh. Here's the thing though, is there is 386 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 1: no proof or evidence that this happened. This all comes 387 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: from a story that her grandson, William can be told 388 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: in eighteen seventies. So she's been passed away for uh 389 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: what thirty years more, almost close to forty, Yeah, between 390 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 1: thirty and forty. So she but but it wasn't like 391 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 1: she died a hundred and fifty years before when her 392 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: grandson wrote it down like he had known her in 393 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: his lifetime. Yeah, and he said that his aunt had 394 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: told him this ten years before and said, listen, she 395 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: told me this story. He you know, recounted it, probably 396 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: in a much nicer way than we just did. And uh, 397 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: he told this in a speech at the Pennsylvania Historical Society. 398 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: And this was, you know, eighteen seventy eighteen seventy six 399 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: is right around the corner, and everyone's getting all uh 400 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: all hot and bothered by the upcoming celebration. And I 401 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: think everyone just sort of well, we'll get to the 402 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: reasons why. But everyone definitely bought into this like this 403 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: is great, let's run with it, right, And so, um, 404 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: here's about where historians say, okay, all right, so William 405 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: can be Um produced this story in a speech to 406 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: the Historical Society. It took place a hundred years after 407 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: the thing happened, almost forty years after Betsy Ross died. 408 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: It's family lore, and apparently they got other people from 409 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: the family to come testify, like, yes, they've heard this 410 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: story multiple times in very similar iterations. It's like the 411 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: story of how our ancestor or grandmother Ann or whatever 412 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: she was to them, um sowed the first American flag. 413 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: And they say, Okay, we don't think that the Ross 414 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: and Claypool families are liars by any stretch. They're not like, 415 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: just didn't make it up, you know, right. That's that's 416 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: kind of the the the uh what's it called when 417 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: you give somebody the benefit of the down, just benefit 418 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: of the down. That's the benefit of the doubt that 419 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: historians tend to give the family so that they're they're 420 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: not just like liars who made this up? Um, But 421 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: but it is family laren So, historians kind of approach 422 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: it with a little bit of a grain of salt. 423 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: The thing is, there's no other family in the United 424 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: States who's saying, actually, it's it was our grandmother who 425 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 1: made the first American flag, or my grandfather was at 426 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: that meeting and he was the one who came up 427 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: with the stars. There's nothing like that. There's no other 428 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: competing stories to this one, to this family story. The 429 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: reason why historians take it with a grain of salts 430 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,360 Speaker 1: because again, like you said, there's just no documentary evidence 431 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: whatsoever to show that it ever did take place. Yeah, 432 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: and there's like there are a few flags here, red 433 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: flags that is about out why this may not be true. 434 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: What I think is that it is a version of 435 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: the truth, and then history tells wraps a good story 436 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: around it. Um. There was no record of a flag 437 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: committee being formed. Um, the fact that George Washington was 438 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: there is just doubtful in and of itself. As a 439 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: huge superstar Army general and American hero, that he would 440 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: be like, we're kind of kidding around and when he's like, 441 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 1: why am I here? But why would he have been there? 442 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,120 Speaker 1: Not only that this is um, this was recounted by 443 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:39,959 Speaker 1: William Canby as a Congressional committee for the flag and 444 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: there's two problems with that one. George Washington wasn't a 445 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: member of Congress, so again, why would they send him 446 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: along with this committee? And then Secondly, Um, Congress never 447 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: in any way, shape or form on paper at least 448 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: took up a flag the details of the flag until 449 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: seventies seven, a full year after this story supposedly took place. 450 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: That's right. Uh, there are a few things working in 451 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: her favor here. Um. It is verified that she was 452 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: paid a pretty good sum of money um that same 453 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: year by the Pennsylvania State Navy Board. Okay, I saw 454 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: that she did make flags for the Pennsylvania Navy. Well, 455 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 1: this is where it gets all murky because there's another man, 456 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: which we'll get into. Uh. Let's let's put a pin 457 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: in that though of that guy for now. Okay, alright, 458 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: because we were getting pretty fast and furious eight there. Uh. 459 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: And there's also a painting supposedly dating to eighteen fifty one, 460 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: a different painting that shows her sewing an American flag. Um. 461 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: But I don't think they have like officially authenticated that 462 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: it's from eighteen fifty one. But here's what I don't understand. 463 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: If there was a painting in eighteen fifty one, I mean, 464 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: supposedly none of this happened until eighteen what seventy the 465 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: can be story? Yeah, like when the big meeting took place. Well, 466 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: I mean that's when that's when William can be told 467 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: that family story. But the fact that there's a painting 468 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: that predates his speech by nineteen years showing the same 469 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: thing that lends support to his story, for sure, But 470 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: it's still that's an eighteen fifty one painting depicting something 471 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: that happened seventy five years prior, right if uh oh, yeah, sorry, 472 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: my math was I forgot a hundred years. You forgot 473 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: to carry the one that did. But again, that that 474 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,719 Speaker 1: painting is not I don't think fully authenticated. So who 475 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: knows if that's true or not. One of those dirty 476 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: lying Ross Claypool family members did it in like two twelve. 477 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: But he said less Claypool for a minute, and I 478 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: was about to run out of the room. Yeah, like 479 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: Less Claypool. Huh. I'm not a primus guy. Um so 480 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: I wouldn't call myself a primus guy either, But I 481 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: like some of their songs. Yeah. Um so, Chuck, you 482 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: want to take another message, break and then come back 483 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: and get to it. Get to the truth about the flag, 484 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: all right, Charles, So you said that there was another 485 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: guy who kind of muddles the issue a little bit, 486 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: and he does, but not fully because, um, if little 487 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: school kids are being taught that Betsy Ross did design 488 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: the flag, that is an issue because this guy named 489 00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: Francis Hopkinson is given credit more than anybody else for 490 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: having a hand in designing the first American flag, if 491 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: not being the designer of the American flag. This this 492 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: sketch that this trio of the Congressional Committee brought in allegedly. Yeah, 493 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: so the story, the story I heard around the campfire 494 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: of old Hopkinson was that he he kind of was, 495 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: in fact the designer. He designed quite a few things, 496 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: uh back then for the United States. And the first 497 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: thing that he did was say I want payment of 498 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: a quarter cask of wine. But then he said, actually 499 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: I want pounds, which would be like half a million 500 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: pounds today. Wow. Um, Apparently it bureaucracy took over and 501 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: they batted it back and forth, and then we're like, well, no, 502 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: we're paying you as an it's sort of that like 503 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: working for a corporation and owning your own I P. 504 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: And they were like, no, we're paying you anyway, this 505 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: is ours. And when you look at what he filed 506 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: for and this is where the naval thing comes in. 507 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: It was for the naval flag of the United States, 508 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: is what he requested payment for. Right. Supposedly, the quarter 509 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: cask of public wine was for the American flag, and 510 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: the big old pound bill was for the naval flag. 511 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: And that's the only one that Congress responded to. They 512 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: just totally ignored the first one. I guess, yeah, but 513 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: this is where I just get a little confused, like 514 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: it was important. Uh. And that's the kind of one 515 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: of the keys here too, is that they needed a flag. 516 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: It wasn't just like I mean, there were practical reasons. 517 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: It's not like we just want to fly a flag 518 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: like in battle. Flags are very important, or they were 519 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: back then, because if you were a small navy and 520 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,479 Speaker 1: you didn't have a flag that everyone knew, as you know, 521 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: the United States would be basically don't bomb me, right exactly, 522 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: don't shoot I'm I'm friendly with you. Which needed naval flag, right, So, um, 523 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: they had they There are a bunch of flags that 524 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: that you had find in revolutionary America at the time. 525 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: There were some very famous ones that you would recognize today. Um, 526 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: the Washington Squadron it is it's a white flag with 527 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: a green pine tree, right, Which is the point of 528 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: that is to say that, um, when you revolt, you're 529 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: you're going above the king's head because the king was 530 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: that had the divine right, like they ruled by, you know, 531 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: on behalf of heaven. So by revolting against the king, 532 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: you were going to heaven the king's boss and saying, hey, 533 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: we want to get rid of this guy. But the 534 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: pine tree there was actually a revolt that was that 535 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: took place a few years before the Boston Tea Party. 536 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: Even it was the first revolt in the in the 537 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: colonies against the king, the first actual revolt, and it 538 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: was because the king said, I own this pine tree, 539 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: I own that pine tree, I own this pine tree. Um. 540 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,239 Speaker 1: And they were to make ships masts out of they 541 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: were very, very valuable, but the king was keeping all 542 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: the good ones, and so these mill owners just started 543 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: cutting up the king's ones as well. And the sheriff, 544 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: and I can't remember where it was, but came to 545 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: arrest a mill owner, and some other mill owners came 546 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: around and they beat the sheriff up and chased him off. 547 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: And that was the first actual act of rebellion in 548 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: the colonies. And that's why the pine tree became a 549 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: symbol of rebellion and revolution. Yeah, I didn't know that 550 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: until today. It's a symbol of a pain in my 551 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: butt if you're king, the king, the King of England. 552 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: But it's a pretty flag, that's all right. Okay, are 553 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: you a Gadsden flag person? Okay, not that thing, that's 554 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: too much controversy. That's the very famous don't tread on 555 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: Me flag, right, the rattlesnake coiled up saying don't mess 556 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: with Texas. Well not Texas, don't tread on me, that's 557 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: what it says. Uh yeah. And then there's of course 558 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: the Sons of Liberty flag. Nine vertical stripes, red and white. Um, 559 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: it's fine, and this, you know, and this one took different, 560 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: um different the the one we stuck with with the 561 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: thirteen stripes and thirteen stars over the blue field in 562 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: the upper left corner. Um. There were different designs for that, 563 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: including one that I think I might have liked better. Um. Well, 564 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: one time they had thirteen stars and forming a square. 565 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: But then they had one where they were in an 566 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: arch over seventy six, which I think would look kind 567 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,760 Speaker 1: of cool. That's a boss flag. Yeah, yeah, I agreed 568 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: for a little while. They had the American flag, the 569 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 1: red and white stripes thirteen red and white stripes UM 570 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: as a field on the flag, and then the canton, 571 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: which is um a square in the upper left corner, 572 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,240 Speaker 1: which can be up to a quarter of the size 573 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: of the flag, and it's still considered a canton. Um 574 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: was the Union jack the British flag, Yeah, it looks 575 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: real weird and um they apparently were running into trouble 576 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: flying that too because it was a little confusing, so 577 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: they abandoned that. And as legend has it, that flag 578 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: is what what what showed that they really needed an 579 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: official United States flag, and so that supposedly is what 580 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,240 Speaker 1: led to that Betsy Ross flag, which was thirteen stars 581 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,280 Speaker 1: in a circle on canton, a blue canton with the 582 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: thirteen alternating red and white stripes. Yeah. I would say 583 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,320 Speaker 1: that at the very least, the Union, the Grand Union 584 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: Flag as it was known, with the Union Jack in 585 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: the corner, was highly confusing in battle. Right, So Congress, 586 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: it becomes clear to them that they that yes, they 587 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: need a flag, we need a national flag. But the 588 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 1: big distinction between what actually happened and this this story 589 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: of Betsy Ross, is that they didn't say anything about 590 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,760 Speaker 1: the flag until June fourteen, seventy seven, when they passed 591 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 1: a flag resolution and they just basically said, yeah, these 592 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,720 Speaker 1: are these are some things we want on the flag, 593 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: and that's it. And that's the first time there's any trail, 594 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: any paper trail, of the United States actually thinking and 595 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: talking about and discussing a flag. And we have every 596 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: other change from then up to I think nineteen fifty 597 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,800 Speaker 1: nine or nineteen sixty, um. From seventies and seventies seven 598 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: onto the mid twentieth century, you know every change that 599 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: was made because they documented it. But this alleged first 600 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: Betsy Ross flag took place outside of that documented history. Well, 601 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: they may not have known at the time, you know 602 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,240 Speaker 1: that this was something important, Yeah, I guess so. Um, 603 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: So you know why does this happen? Well, there's a 604 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: lot of reasons. Um. One reason was, even way back 605 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: in the eighteen seventies, there was a notion that uh, 606 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: women were doing some great things and being overlooked, and 607 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: they wanted to inspire young women and girls across the 608 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,279 Speaker 1: country to do great things as well. So what better 609 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,280 Speaker 1: way to do so than to um sort of gussie 610 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: up this Betsy Ross story, right. Um, there was also 611 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: like a desire for you kind of referenced it earlier 612 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: about um the centennial coming up in eighteen seventy six. 613 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,760 Speaker 1: There was like a real hunger in the United States, 614 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: which was a relatively young country um to to to 615 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: have its own mythology. And so that's what some of 616 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: these stories that were being um kind of generated and 617 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: rehashed or put down on paper for maybe the first 618 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: time that that's what they provided, was this this shared 619 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: national history that that the United States citizens were kind 620 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: of like rallying behind. And that's that's a good example 621 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: of why that would have taken off and become cemented. Yeah. 622 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: The other thing that kind of cracks me up is 623 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: the fact that George Washington was in the story himself, right, 624 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: because apparently he was just such a legend at the time. 625 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: Uh and just you know, emblematic of of what this 626 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: country was and would be, is that he turned up 627 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: in a lot of stories that he was he was 628 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 1: never really at because I mean, this is a time 629 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: where people would just tell a story and be like, 630 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,240 Speaker 1: and guess who else was there? Maybe if they're losing 631 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: the crowd, General George Washington himself, the crowds just gas 632 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: and sits up. That's great if they the crowd. Uh. 633 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: And then, of course the easiest explanation is that, you know, 634 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 1: it's a simple story and it's easy to tell, and uh, 635 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: it's pretty streamed. Line, has a nice beginning, middle, and end, 636 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: and it's much better than some weird, convoluted retelling that 637 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 1: no one would remember anyway. Right, So here's where Frances 638 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: Hopkinson comes in the story. Uh, it's a gonna get 639 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: a little money here, kid, but just the wine. But 640 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: then money. And then it was a naval flag, right. Uh, 641 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: let's see, I got a couple of things about the flag. 642 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,240 Speaker 1: So you know, there's the study of flags, how they're made, 643 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 1: what they're what they symbolize, is called vel exology. I 644 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: thought it was flaggery. No. Um, that's where you're starting 645 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: to lose steam. Okay, vel exology. There's a great invisible 646 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 1: episode on flags. Heard that word it is? Um. So 647 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 1: the United States flag there's thirteen horizontal stripes, seven red, 648 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,720 Speaker 1: six white. In case you ever want to win at trivia. 649 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: The stripes are the thirteen colonies, obviously, and the stars 650 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,800 Speaker 1: of the fifty states of the Union. Um. The red 651 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: symbolizes hardiness and valor not blood. White symbolizes purity and innocence. 652 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: Blue represents vigilance, perseverance, and justice. And if you ever 653 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 1: want to see a heck of a flag, go to 654 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,720 Speaker 1: the Smithsonian Museum of American History and you can see 655 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 1: the Star Spangled banner, the flag that was flying over 656 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 1: Fort McHenry in eighteen fourteen when Francis Scott Key looked 657 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:49,759 Speaker 1: up in the dawn's light and saw that it was 658 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: still flying over there despite just a massive assault by 659 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: the British, and was inspired to write the Star Spangled Banner, 660 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:01,840 Speaker 1: which became the national anthem. And thirty three I believe ye, 661 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,720 Speaker 1: of course is what I meant. Amazing. So that's the flag, 662 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,240 Speaker 1: and Betsy Ross go forth and tell the truth. Uh. 663 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: And if you want to know more about Betsy ROSSI 664 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 1: you can read this article, a fine one by Ed 665 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 1: Grabanowski actually on how Stuff Works dot com. Since I 666 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: said that it's time for listener mail, I'm gonna call 667 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: this really cool email from an Atari guy. This is thrilling. 668 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,759 Speaker 1: I thought so too. Hey, guys, love the show. I 669 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,360 Speaker 1: worked at Attari in the late seventies. I ran the 670 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 1: warehouse in nineteen seventy six, Warner Brothers purchased Attari from 671 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 1: its founder Nolan Bushnell. No One stayed on for a 672 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: couple of years after that, before departing in seventy eight. 673 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: Cartridges created to meet movie releases is probably one of 674 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 1: the reasons he left. When I first heard that the 675 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,000 Speaker 1: ET cartridges had been buried, I laughed because I oversaw 676 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:58,280 Speaker 1: the burying of leftover Superman cartridges for that first movie 677 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: and seventy eight at the Ebil, California landfill, which is 678 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: right across the street from the building. Iran, something you 679 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: would not be able to do today because of environmental restrictions. 680 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: Um like the ET cartridge, Superman would fly around, pick 681 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 1: up Lois Lane and rescue her from some villains. The 682 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,320 Speaker 1: only problem Superman kept dropping her and she would plumme 683 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,760 Speaker 1: it to the ground. That's a bug. It's so funny. 684 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: It's just so similar to eat. The cartridge was rushed 685 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: into production was a huge flop. I thought you might 686 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 1: find the Warner Brothers tie interesting. Sure that is from 687 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:36,800 Speaker 1: Gordon Selig. Nice Thanks a lot, Gordon. That was a 688 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 1: good one. I think I see he runs his own 689 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,840 Speaker 1: I T business now too. Yeah, man, that's that's what happens. Um. 690 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: So if you want to get in touch of this, 691 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 1: like Gordon did with a great story that kind of 692 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: rounds out something we were talking about. We love those things. 693 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: You can tweet to us at s Y s K podcast. 694 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,720 Speaker 1: You can join us on Facebook dot com. It's slash 695 00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,320 Speaker 1: stuff you should know. You can hang out with the 696 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: Sun Insta Graham. I've got my own site that Josh 697 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,839 Speaker 1: clark Way. And then, as always, you can send us 698 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: a nice email to Stuff Podcasts at how stuff works 699 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 1: dot com for moralness and thousands of other topics. Is 700 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com m