Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to another edition of All the Smoke. Jack, what's good,
Speaker 1: my brother, and we're here again the final day of filming. Man,
Speaker 1: We've been in l A four days, had some great interviews.
Speaker 1: We get to end with my man our man, uh Man.
Speaker 1: Welcome Lakers assistant coach Phil Hendy walking bag moves into bag.
Speaker 1: I'm glad we finally got to link We've been trying
Speaker 1: to link in and get you on here for a minute.
Speaker 1: Shout out at home girl Michelle. It's her birthday today.
Speaker 1: I was just on the phone with Yeah, so uh. Anyway, Man,
Speaker 1: let's get to it. Obviously was a disaster outside of
Speaker 1: you guys winning a championship. What do you occured about
Speaker 1: halfway through the year at this point, man, from a
Speaker 1: basketball standpoint, because for me personally was like probably one
Speaker 1: of the best years that I've had individually for growth.
Speaker 1: That's the first time in my in my basketball career
Speaker 1: in the last twenty years, I've had a chance to
Speaker 1: sit down and do absolutely nothing. So I had I
Speaker 1: had a great time to reflect and I spent some
Speaker 1: time with myself, Spence, some talking to my son, and
Speaker 1: really just kind of died back into my family a
Speaker 1: little bit. So for me personally, that was one of
Speaker 1: the best things that could have happened. Basketball wise. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, every I think the world knows the challenge
Speaker 1: that we had. But um, we came out of that
Speaker 1: bubble and the season started so fast for twenty one
Speaker 1: and it really it was just all about, man, how
Speaker 1: do we manage this season? You know, how do you
Speaker 1: manage the season? How do you try to keep guys healthy,
Speaker 1: how do you how do you get rest? You know,
Speaker 1: how do you build up your team and just try
Speaker 1: to get through get through a season that's you know
Speaker 1: what we call a sprint. I mean, you guys both
Speaker 1: played in the league for many years. Eighty two games
Speaker 1: was crazy, but seventy two games in that span and
Speaker 1: we just played every other day. So really just figuring
Speaker 1: out how to get through the season, survive, you get
Speaker 1: through the season and come in, come into the playoffs
Speaker 1: healthy and give yourself the best chance to try to
Speaker 1: defend your title. Man, that's from the top right now. Um.
Speaker 1: Thoughts on the playing tournament, Obviously, one of your players
Speaker 1: was not a big fan of it. Bronz said, whoever
Speaker 1: came up with the idea should be fired. From a
Speaker 1: coaching perspective, in the standpoint, where was you what was
Speaker 1: your thought on the playing situation? Um Man, I always
Speaker 1: feel like the playoffs are you gotta win games? So whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, you put us in a position where did
Speaker 1: we want to play in the play in the game
Speaker 1: last night? Uh? Not necessarily, but man, those type of
Speaker 1: games kind of tell you where you are. You know
Speaker 1: you are you ready for the playoffs? You know, are
Speaker 1: you ready for that mental batt that battle? Are you
Speaker 1: ready for the physical? So for me, it's just you
Speaker 1: gotta win a game. You put your hard hat on,
Speaker 1: prepare yourself, you know your opponent, and go win the game.
Speaker 1: That's that's what you know. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people try to say, well, you know, let's play this
Speaker 1: team and play that team at some point in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: You gotta play whoever he is your match up. You're
Speaker 1: gonna have to play. You got the game plan and
Speaker 1: you got to go out there and win. That's what
Speaker 1: it was. That's what it boils down to me. For me,
Speaker 1: And even though it was a playing game, how thrilling
Speaker 1: was it. Let's playoff basketball? Man, it was tough and
Speaker 1: your ship was up a hu from any game last
Speaker 1: season I do. It's a problem, man, it's a straight
Speaker 1: up problem. I don't care game plan. You can game plan.
Speaker 1: He just Draymond to you know, people, people give Dramond
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of problems, but he is
Speaker 1: one of those dudes that figured out who he is,
Speaker 1: figured out how he needs to play, figured out how
Speaker 1: can I play at a high level doing what I
Speaker 1: do best? And that's yeah, I'm gonna have an imprint
Speaker 1: on the game. I'm gonna go over five. I might
Speaker 1: have two points, but my imprint is gonna be all
Speaker 1: over this game. And you look at him and him
Speaker 1: and Steph and they were just disruptive the whole game.
Speaker 1: You know, two dudes, no mind, You don't take anything
Speaker 1: because the rest of the team. Those guys play hard,
Speaker 1: they're playing well, they figured out their roles. But those
Speaker 1: two dudes, man, are disruptive. And staff is just he
Speaker 1: procesaw one clip the whole coaching staff. Man, we're on
Speaker 1: the sidelines. J kid like Hollins, Frank myself. Steph was
Speaker 1: running in circles. He had a d and a Alice
Speaker 1: Carus are running around we on the sidelines, yelling and
Speaker 1: pointing and screaming, like, bro, that's what he does to you,
Speaker 1: like if you let him get loose, and even when
Speaker 1: you don't let him get loose, think about now it's
Speaker 1: just him, But it used to be having to worry
Speaker 1: about two dudes running around like that. You know, that's
Speaker 1: what made them so unfair. Where you have to step
Speaker 1: will start running all this way instead of screen for
Speaker 1: Cli even Clay Poppa hit it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So as a monster, this is kind of you may
Speaker 1: not have the luxury of being able to do this
Speaker 1: because you're so in the moment, but you've been able
Speaker 1: to see Lebron and stepth going each other in the finals.
Speaker 1: You had a great, you know, playing situation last night.
Speaker 1: Do you ever just kind of sit back and realize, like, man,
Speaker 1: we're watching two of the greatest players in the history
Speaker 1: of the game. Go at it? Are you kind of
Speaker 1: more this coach mode? We got fuck them? It's a
Speaker 1: little bit of both. I mean, Matt, like you know me,
Speaker 1: you know, we had some time together with the Lakers.
Speaker 1: I'm ultracompetitive, like I'm old school, like we on the
Speaker 1: other team. I'm not trying to talk to you during
Speaker 1: the game. I'm talking ship to you. I'm trying to win.
Speaker 1: But also on the flip side, there have been times
Speaker 1: while I'm actually selling the bench man said, man, I
Speaker 1: who am I watching? Playing? Real? Talk like, like from
Speaker 1: a perspective of just understanding we love the game and
Speaker 1: the guys that were around and guys that you guys
Speaker 1: play with, guys you played against. Right as a coach,
Speaker 1: there have been time I'm sitting on the bench like, man,
Speaker 1: forget coaching, I'm just enjoy this game, Like I'm watching
Speaker 1: these cats play at a high level, and you know,
Speaker 1: iably one of the best to ever do it. You know,
Speaker 1: Brown is one of those dudes, man, where it's just
Speaker 1: it's incredible to be able to see what he's done
Speaker 1: night and night out, you know. And I've spent you know,
Speaker 1: six years with him, but going through that four year
Speaker 1: stretch when we're in Cleveland and going to the finals
Speaker 1: every year, playing against Staff and and Clay and Katie
Speaker 1: when he came, that's incredible. It's a lot of it's
Speaker 1: a lot of buckets on one court, you know, and
Speaker 1: then you throw Kyrie in there when he was in Cleveland,
Speaker 1: you know, and just all those other people. Man, But
Speaker 1: but being able to sit back and watch this dude
Speaker 1: every night. Sometimes sometimes I'll be on the bench just
Speaker 1: like this, like the living room, and I'll tell people
Speaker 1: all the time, and I got one of the best
Speaker 1: seats in the house, you know, And had a lot
Speaker 1: of luck and just landing obviously grinding to get to
Speaker 1: where you're at, but fortunate enough to catch Kobe coach Kobe,
Speaker 1: coach Lebron, coach Kauai and coach Lebron again. I mean,
Speaker 1: you've got three rings as a as a coach, But
Speaker 1: like I said, somehow you land on your feet in
Speaker 1: great situations. But you mean you're just accustomed to go
Speaker 1: into the finals now, you know. I mean you went,
Speaker 1: like you said, four years in a row with Cleveland,
Speaker 1: then you go with Toronto, then it's a year off.
Speaker 1: I know, you went right with the Lakers, right right,
Speaker 1: So you've been to the finals. What the six years?
Speaker 1: Look at you? But what's that ride been like? Because
Speaker 1: some people never make it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And obviously I know you appreciate it, but to consistently
Speaker 1: go six years in a row with three different teams.
Speaker 1: You've won with all three teams. What's that experience like
Speaker 1: as just a man and a hooper at heart? Man,
Speaker 1: that's um one is unreal. Man. I look and you
Speaker 1: guys both know, you know, having the careers that you
Speaker 1: had in the battles and the playoffs. Like for me,
Speaker 1: um one, it gives me chills, man, because I think
Speaker 1: about the journey that I've been on. I didn't play
Speaker 1: in the NBA for a long time. One I have
Speaker 1: a I have a like a real deep appreciation for
Speaker 1: the journey that I've been on because of because of
Speaker 1: how I became a coach in the NBA. You know,
Speaker 1: Mike Brown obviously gave me an opportunity. I wasn't a
Speaker 1: dude that was that was you know, had a long
Speaker 1: NBA career. I mean I had a long basketball career
Speaker 1: and played overseas. But I've always had this thing of
Speaker 1: for me personally, man, I just I want to compete
Speaker 1: to win. That's just it's in me. Um And you
Speaker 1: know that doesn't always work out like that everybody does.
Speaker 1: But when I got to UM, I got to the Lakers.
Speaker 1: You know, again, I was obviously at the end of
Speaker 1: Kobe's career, going going into it. You know, we had
Speaker 1: our struggles with that team. But when I went to Cleveland,
Speaker 1: Mike got fired and he asked me to come to Cleveland.
Speaker 1: One of the things he said to me was, you know,
Speaker 1: um one, we want you to mentor Kyrie to that
Speaker 1: there's a chance of Lebron might come back to Cleveland.
Speaker 1: Who knows. So I went to Cleveland. My first year,
Speaker 1: we were terrible. Dogshit, We're just young team trying to
Speaker 1: figure it out. And Bron came back the next year
Speaker 1: and we went through that season ups and downs. You know,
Speaker 1: kay Love was getting in the ready whole script, and
Speaker 1: we ended up making to the finals. Once we got there.
Speaker 1: For me now like walking into an oracle. Going back
Speaker 1: home from there, that first opportunity was just like, man,
Speaker 1: this is crazy. And when we got there, all I
Speaker 1: kept saying to myself was, man, there's nothing else. There's
Speaker 1: no other feeling that you want. Now, look, it's not guaranteed,
Speaker 1: but I've always wanted to put myself in a position
Speaker 1: where every year I want to be part of a
Speaker 1: team that's trying to compete for a championship. That's my mindset.
Speaker 1: Competitor and man, people, you know, and some people say,
Speaker 1: you'rein chasing what you call it, whatever you want. I
Speaker 1: want to win. I'm not in this for money or
Speaker 1: you know what I'm I'm a purious to the game
Speaker 1: of basketball. So what opportunities can I put myself in
Speaker 1: to where we can compete for a championship. And you know,
Speaker 1: I went through that run in Cleveland kind of like
Speaker 1: I went through a spell with my time in Cleveland
Speaker 1: kind of came to a you know, it came to
Speaker 1: an end. I was there for five years and then
Speaker 1: it was like, what's next. So, you know, I knew
Speaker 1: bron was was leaving out of the East and Toronto
Speaker 1: had been a team that we have been competing against,
Speaker 1: you know, for years in the playoffs, and I always
Speaker 1: kind of felt like the only reason why they couldn't
Speaker 1: make that home was because Brin was just every year
Speaker 1: and then to run into him at some point in
Speaker 1: our teams. So when the whole thing shifted, you know,
Speaker 1: I played for Nick Nurse in Europe, so Nick became
Speaker 1: the head coach and I looked at Toronto said, man,
Speaker 1: they have a team that can compete. And this was
Speaker 1: before I looked at the mar I loved this game
Speaker 1: I love Kyle Lowry, I love some of the young
Speaker 1: players that they had, and I said, man, shoot, it's
Speaker 1: the East is wide open. There's a chance there. So
Speaker 1: when the opportunity presented yourself, I said going to Toronto,
Speaker 1: Nick wanted me on the staff man. Two days after
Speaker 1: I signed my contract and agreed to terms, I woke
Speaker 1: up ESPN Troynto Raptors have traded to Martin Rosen for
Speaker 1: kau Bro. I was like, come on man, Like you said, man,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, come on man again. The highest
Speaker 1: just just utmost respect for tomorrow because he's a he's
Speaker 1: a Cooper competitor. And you know, I didn't know Kauai,
Speaker 1: but when he came to came to Toronto and saw
Speaker 1: that he was healthy, I was like, look, man, we
Speaker 1: gotta we got a real chance. Bro, you have a
Speaker 1: real chance. And so that year went the way it went.
Speaker 1: You know, I have a seven year old son who
Speaker 1: lives here in l A. You know, Bron me and
Speaker 1: Brian always kept in touch. So it just it worked
Speaker 1: out for me to come back to l A and
Speaker 1: we go back to the finals again. I couldn't I
Speaker 1: couldn't write this story right. The only thing I can
Speaker 1: do is one be grateful, you know, because like you said,
Speaker 1: it's not guaranteed. I have a lot of respect for
Speaker 1: a lot of coach is coaching the league for thirty years.
Speaker 1: Some have never been to the finals. Some I've never
Speaker 1: been to a conference finals. So I don't look at
Speaker 1: this journey and say it's been a cake walk, you know.
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at Sam and I keep my head
Speaker 1: down every day, keep grinding and keep working, and just
Speaker 1: try to try to put yourself in the best pusiness
Speaker 1: I possible so you can do compete. We'll get back
Speaker 1: to detail about some of those teams, but let's get
Speaker 1: back to your journey. UM Oakland, California. A. UM, that's
Speaker 1: about your about your upbringing and how basketball came into
Speaker 1: your life. Oh man, I'm the youngest of uh. I
Speaker 1: was the youngest of seven siblings. My parents old school.
Speaker 1: So my father was one of those dudes many he was.
Speaker 1: He was one of the very first minority owned business
Speaker 1: owners in Oakland on the construction business. So Pops was
Speaker 1: up at three o'clock in the morning going to work.
Speaker 1: And so for me, his his whole process was you're
Speaker 1: not gonna play basketball you're gonna learn how to work hard. Summertime,
Speaker 1: where was I three am? I was in the car
Speaker 1: with him going to work. So really the moral that
Speaker 1: he taught me how to work hard, For one, he
Speaker 1: gave me tremendous work ethic, but the whole upbringing basketball
Speaker 1: basketball was like an afterthought. Man. I had to sneak
Speaker 1: out by the time I turned sixteen, seventeen eighteen, you know,
Speaker 1: I had to really sneak out and play because my
Speaker 1: father won. I grew up in a very religious household,
Speaker 1: so I couldn't go out on Friday nights. I couldn't
Speaker 1: play basketball Friday night, which you know, high school basketball,
Speaker 1: big games, So I couldn't really play high school basketball.
Speaker 1: I didn't get a chance to play because of my
Speaker 1: religious beliefs at the time. So Friday night I was
Speaker 1: at home. I didn't go to dance, I didn't go
Speaker 1: none of that. So I had to find ways to
Speaker 1: sneak out and compete. How do I play au Once
Speaker 1: of my parents got me a car, it was over,
Speaker 1: you know, dip out and go where I want to go.
Speaker 1: But for me, basketball was just like I had to
Speaker 1: get away. I had to get away to play, and
Speaker 1: my love for the game was just at a high level. Um.
Speaker 1: I grew up in a great family, but basket ball
Speaker 1: was wasn't something that was prioritized in my family, so
Speaker 1: I had to figure out ways to get around it.
Speaker 1: But as I grew I got scholarship, you know, I
Speaker 1: went on to play professionally. My father became a big
Speaker 1: fan of what I was doing, and so once that happened,
Speaker 1: that changed the whole trajectory of how I perceived the
Speaker 1: game and how I proached it. With my possible behind me,
Speaker 1: it was it was a whole different different story for me.
Speaker 1: Who were some of the influences you had growing up
Speaker 1: on the hoop? Court Man? Dr j was my man
Speaker 1: growing up back in those days. Man, you get up
Speaker 1: on Sunday morning, turn on the TV. When I say
Speaker 1: turned on the TV, wasn't no remote, Get up and
Speaker 1: turn the TV on? Who be on? Plan Boston and
Speaker 1: Philadelphia ABC? So I grew up loving Doc Man. I
Speaker 1: grew up loving Jordan's you know, Jordan was part of
Speaker 1: my era. But the guy that really inspired me as
Speaker 1: a young kid is Walter Davis. You gotta be a
Speaker 1: real hooper to know who that is. Walter Davis Greyhound.
Speaker 1: I'm looking at both of y'all faces like I've heard
Speaker 1: the name. I'm just not familiar world where, so talk
Speaker 1: to me about him. Walter Davis Man was like he
Speaker 1: was just a smooth cat, jump shot, mid range. So
Speaker 1: he was one of those dudes before that era of MJ.
Speaker 1: You know, I used to call him the Greyhound, So
Speaker 1: I was. I was a big fan of his man
Speaker 1: growing up. And then you know, Dr J and m J.
Speaker 1: Man kind of kind of solidified for me Greyhound, And
Speaker 1: then I was a fan of Grand Hill too. Hill
Speaker 1: was to Hill was nasty money. What was the basketball
Speaker 1: culture like in the bed been the Bay when he's
Speaker 1: growing up, it was nasty Stack. J Kidd, G. P. B. Shaw,
Speaker 1: Greg Foster, Tonio Davis. You know. So the WHO culture
Speaker 1: in the Bay was it was pretty Steve Nash was
Speaker 1: going to college there, um j R Jr. Righter, So
Speaker 1: the whole WHO culture. You know, you think about l A,
Speaker 1: you think about New York, you think about certain certain places,
Speaker 1: but but the culture in the Bay was pretty deep,
Speaker 1: you know, and it was with some heavy hitters. San
Speaker 1: Francisco program used to be used to be on point
Speaker 1: back in the day. Keys are It's a small, sweaty gym, right,
Speaker 1: tell you about it, man. Yeah, you know, so those
Speaker 1: are legend but talk to to to the level of
Speaker 1: competition that those keys are games, because those were NBA
Speaker 1: level summer league games. The Warriors had a team in
Speaker 1: the in the program, they had a team like their rookies,
Speaker 1: their young players. They would send them over there to
Speaker 1: play twice a week. And so the league was was
Speaker 1: full of NBA players, it was full of European like
Speaker 1: high level of your players would come home and it
Speaker 1: was ultra competitive. Man. So as a young boy seventeen
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty, you had to wait your turn to get
Speaker 1: on the court. You want, you want on those teams,
Speaker 1: you might not play, you know. So you sit on
Speaker 1: the bench. You're watching j K, You're watching GP. You
Speaker 1: watching these dudes plays. Man, Can I get some just
Speaker 1: can I get some burn? It was, it was. It
Speaker 1: was a tough get up for the summer league. When
Speaker 1: did you know that you wanted to pursue playing basketball
Speaker 1: in college? The first time somebody offered mere scholarships, I
Speaker 1: wasn't sure because I said I didn't play I didn't
Speaker 1: play high school basketball. I played maybe five games in
Speaker 1: high school basketball. UM. I went to junior college, and
Speaker 1: that was when I really had the opportunity to figure
Speaker 1: out if I could play. I knew I could play
Speaker 1: because I play organized basketball, So I went to UM.
Speaker 1: I wanted to went to Scotline Community College and ended up,
Speaker 1: you know, making first team on State San Francisco, right,
Speaker 1: and then all these scholarship offers started coming. I was
Speaker 1: I considered myself as a late late bloomer with the game.
Speaker 1: But the first time I got a scholarship ball for
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, it's real now, and so I
Speaker 1: really started taking it more serious, and I was just like, man,
Speaker 1: let me pick one of these schools, let me figure out.
Speaker 1: When I ended up going to Hawaii, but it was
Speaker 1: it was just an opportunity of like, all right, but
Speaker 1: let me see what I can do with it. But
Speaker 1: you had an interesting story while you went to Hawaii.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us about that? You didn't bring that,
Speaker 1: oh man. So the crazy part about it. At the time,
Speaker 1: you know, I was pretty close to going to Cal Berkeley.
Speaker 1: Jay Kidd and Lema Murray were playing there UM and
Speaker 1: I was at the Juco across the way, and uh
Speaker 1: Cal was was showing heavy signs of interest, and I
Speaker 1: was I was ready to commit. So one of my boys,
Speaker 1: man playing Juco with me, didn't have a scholarship opportunity.
Speaker 1: Hawaii was like recruiting me super heavy. So they wanted
Speaker 1: me to take my visit. You know. Hawaii was like, look,
Speaker 1: you take a visit, you gotta commit, you know, we
Speaker 1: we don't just fly people out here. So I said
Speaker 1: no to that, but I did tell him. I said, look,
Speaker 1: my boy don't have a scholarship, so if you guys
Speaker 1: give him a scholarship, I'll come to Waii. I tried. Nah,
Speaker 1: I was bluffing, and I was bluffing to like to
Speaker 1: like get him off the trail. And so they were like, well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get some film on him. They got the
Speaker 1: film and they signed him first. They signed him first.
Speaker 1: Hold on. Now, let me tell you the real cold
Speaker 1: part about it, that I tried to back out of it.
Speaker 1: My father got wind of it, and as old school
Speaker 1: as this, and no, sir, you gave these people your word.
Speaker 1: You're going to Hawaiian stand on it. Stand on it. Man.
Speaker 1: That was one of the hardest lessons for me because
Speaker 1: I didn't want to do it. I tried to back
Speaker 1: out of it, and I tried. I really was just like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna call the cozy coach came to my house.
Speaker 1: Was sitting on the live room couch with my father.
Speaker 1: When I came home one day and was like Pops like, hey,
Speaker 1: you're gonna sign that scholarship over. I was like, now,
Speaker 1: what are you doing in my house? It was a route.
Speaker 1: So you were about to go to cow with j
Speaker 1: Kid and Lama Murray in Hawaii and up in Hawaii.
Speaker 1: You know, they gave my boy scholarship. We both went
Speaker 1: to it and you got your man in school and
Speaker 1: that that really happened. So that's dope that that ship was.
Speaker 1: What the biggest thing for me though, is it taught
Speaker 1: me don't open your mouth. I don't say stuff that
Speaker 1: you're not gonna follow follow through on. Because my father
Speaker 1: really he helped me to the fire on that one. Man.
Speaker 1: So you end up choosing Hawaii. Uh, your dad said
Speaker 1: you're gonna honor your word. You go out there and play. Um,
Speaker 1: how was that experience? I was dope? Yeah, man, it was.
Speaker 1: It was a culture. It was a culture shock for me.
Speaker 1: So you know, you go to Hawaii, people don't really
Speaker 1: understand like the Asian culture, the Samoan and Polynesian culture,
Speaker 1: and you don't mix them too up neither. It's a problem. Man, Listen,
Speaker 1: it was. It was a good culture shock, but it
Speaker 1: was a culture shock. And then just being on the island.
Speaker 1: You know, you can't you can't go anywhere. You know,
Speaker 1: you drive around the island in three hours and you're
Speaker 1: back at the school. But that part was cool for
Speaker 1: me because of just the one weather. You wake up
Speaker 1: and go to school every day with shorts on, you
Speaker 1: wake up, go on campus, females got bikinis on. It
Speaker 1: was experience, no complaint none. So draft, you happen to
Speaker 1: go undrafted, but that's the hell of a draft. Obviously,
Speaker 1: KG just inducted Hall of Fame, Joe Smith, mcdice, She'd Stardomyer,
Speaker 1: Mike Finley, Brent Berry, h Man. Hell of a draft.
Speaker 1: So pick up basketball late junior college Hawaii, hopes to
Speaker 1: make the NBA. You don't get drafted. What's your immediate
Speaker 1: mindset after you don't get drafted? Man, I didn't even know, Matt.
Speaker 1: I had no clue. Really, it was just like, I
Speaker 1: want to play basketball, but I didn't know what the
Speaker 1: next steps for you know, it wasn't it wasn't like
Speaker 1: I had a bunch of agents knocking down my door.
Speaker 1: So for me, uh, you know, b Shaw was kind
Speaker 1: of kind of crucial. You know, Keith Jennings, Mr. He
Speaker 1: was crucial. You know, Molly and Tim Hardaway, them dudes
Speaker 1: were really crucial to like being in the community. Molly
Speaker 1: was a hooper, he would play anywhere. Hardaway would play anywhere.
Speaker 1: And Keith Jennings was on the Warriors squad and he
Speaker 1: like took me and some of my friends in and
Speaker 1: we would hoop with him in the off season, and
Speaker 1: you know, he was the one that was really like, yo, yeah, fella,
Speaker 1: you you have some talent. You can play at the
Speaker 1: next level if you really apply yourself. So when I
Speaker 1: got out of school, all I did was work out
Speaker 1: with him as much as I could work out with him,
Speaker 1: stayed in the gym, and uh, the opportunity that really
Speaker 1: changed everything. We had open run at Club one downtown Oakland.
Speaker 1: You guys played for the Warriors Club one that used
Speaker 1: to be serious run. So we were in the hooping
Speaker 1: one day and b Shaw came in and b Shaw
Speaker 1: we knew each other, but we didn't know each other
Speaker 1: too well. But the run was so crazy that I
Speaker 1: was just trying to go at everybody's head. Anybody stepped
Speaker 1: in the court, I was trying to go at your head.
Speaker 1: So b Shaw stepped on and I hate to tell
Speaker 1: this story, be, but you know I tried to go
Speaker 1: at best head the whole game. Yeah, we ran him up,
Speaker 1: We ran him off the floor, and then I went
Speaker 1: and sat down. And so after one after we want,
Speaker 1: I went and sat down. So I'm done playing. So
Speaker 1: bees Man Glenn Graham. Glenn was like a trainer. He said, look, man,
Speaker 1: I need to I need to take you. I need
Speaker 1: to work you out, Let me build you, let me
Speaker 1: put you in touch with some agents. And that just
Speaker 1: opened up the door for me. That year was a
Speaker 1: lockout that he was a lockout. So the Warriors had
Speaker 1: they had a free agent camp and they had lockout end. Look,
Speaker 1: we're gonna fight twenty local dudes come to camp, and
Speaker 1: we got two spots to go to training camp. Man.
Speaker 1: I went to that camp. Feast of Famine was like,
Speaker 1: let me go in here and show these people I
Speaker 1: can play. I was one of the two guys that
Speaker 1: got selected to go to free agent camp, and it
Speaker 1: was just once I stepped into that camp, Man Spree
Speaker 1: took me in. He was on that pretty well, Tim Hardaway,
Speaker 1: Chris Mullen, uh Ronnie psychicly b J arm Song. It
Speaker 1: just got traded to the Warriors. Mark Price was there,
Speaker 1: so it was a team full of vest year that
Speaker 1: put his hands on Oh boy. That was the year
Speaker 1: after that. That was the next year. I missed it.
Speaker 1: That was but that opportunity, like really, Spree took me in.
Speaker 1: Hardaway took me in and they they was like, you know,
Speaker 1: just putting the battery in my pallet. I'm fella, man,
Speaker 1: you can you can do something. You gotta continue to
Speaker 1: work getting the weight room. And once I saw that
Speaker 1: that piece right there, I just kind of took off
Speaker 1: on me. You know. I stayed with the Warriors for
Speaker 1: a small part of the season and I went and
Speaker 1: played in the c B A and U. Once I
Speaker 1: got to the c B A, I just took off.
Speaker 1: Had a great season, you know, made the All Rookie team.
Speaker 1: And then next year I came back and I went
Speaker 1: to the Portland Trailblazers. I was in camp with them
Speaker 1: and spent part of the season there. And then after that,
Speaker 1: I was just like, man, I just want to hoop.
Speaker 1: Now I don't care, so now I want to hoop.
Speaker 1: And my agent was like, listen, man, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of teams in Europe that paid great money and they
Speaker 1: want your services. And it was I was like, all right, man,
Speaker 1: I did the NBA. I made it. Felt like I
Speaker 1: made it. I compose that. Now I want to hoop.
Speaker 1: What does that mean for me? So I went to
Speaker 1: Europe and never came back. I spent eight years in Europe. Man,
Speaker 1: I traveled the world. I went to France, Italy, Germany, Israel, Paine, England, Australia,
Speaker 1: Australia by far? Was it Australia by far? Basketball or
Speaker 1: just life? Everything? The hoops seeing down there is amazing.
Speaker 1: In Melbourne for one year and Sydney for two loved
Speaker 1: it like I still go back. I got deep roots
Speaker 1: in Australia, man. But the league down there is it's
Speaker 1: in the summertime, English speaking country and they try to
Speaker 1: they try to their their whole design of the NBL
Speaker 1: is off the NBA. So they got a TV show,
Speaker 1: they got TV games. It was a dope experience, man.
Speaker 1: To be able to travel travel around the world and
Speaker 1: and and kind of you know, have a career playing basketball.
Speaker 1: It diversified me. Man, that was the best thing that
Speaker 1: could happen to be. You had a lot of game though,
Speaker 1: just because you didn't have a long career. I mean,
Speaker 1: like people tell stories about you back in the Bay
Speaker 1: like feel like feeling hoop, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And that was always the word. I mean we were
Speaker 1: talking about you earlier with raised It's like now I
Speaker 1: feel the Summer League was loaded. But if you had
Speaker 1: feel on your team, you had a chance. How many
Speaker 1: other problems on the other team like you had a chance.
Speaker 1: So now appreciate the games you could definitely who But
Speaker 1: obviously traveling the world, did you see any players that
Speaker 1: really like stood out to you, like overseas legends, anyone
Speaker 1: that became legends. You guys, you played against him that
Speaker 1: was in France, Tony Parker was he was tiny, little dude.
Speaker 1: Tony Parker Patriots MP coop coach Jack had NP gangbanging
Speaker 1: fresh had of France. Yea Andrew Gay Games. I played
Speaker 1: with Andrew Games. So played with Andrew Gays, played against
Speaker 1: Shane Hill, you know, narc Cooperman. I've seen some of
Speaker 1: those younger dudes when they were when they were really young.
Speaker 1: But like TP was the one when I saw him,
Speaker 1: he was just like sixteen seventeen years old and he
Speaker 1: was running around shooting floor. You running just fast, just fast.
Speaker 1: And just to see him years later coming to the
Speaker 1: NBA C Coop coach. You know, these dudes were young.
Speaker 1: They were young kids when I was over there, man,
Speaker 1: So it was um, you know, and I had a
Speaker 1: chance to play some some good countries for some really
Speaker 1: good teams, some EuroLeague teams and things of that where
Speaker 1: they played at a high level and it wasn't a slout.
Speaker 1: People have the wrong conception of what European basketball is about.
Speaker 1: It's tough over there. The problem, you know, sometimes the
Speaker 1: European players come here and it's a hard translation. It's
Speaker 1: a different style of play, right you go to Europe.
Speaker 1: Some Americans have a hard time translating to where they
Speaker 1: play over there. It's a tough translation. But I think
Speaker 1: that was the best thing that could have happened to
Speaker 1: me for my career. In seven, I was I had
Speaker 1: to go to Australia and I played in uh for
Speaker 1: the Sydney Kings, and I was talking about Andrew Gays.
Speaker 1: This was nineties seven. Man, he's shooting from half court.
Speaker 1: I'm telling about head for the gray hair, head for
Speaker 1: the gray hair bucket. This man was unreal. Un him
Speaker 1: and Shane Hill with some of them some of the
Speaker 1: best shooters I've seen in my life. And I've seen
Speaker 1: that in Australia, so I can. But they were a problem.
Speaker 1: No gas, you know, they no gas over there. They
Speaker 1: were playing the way stuff and those guys like you
Speaker 1: had to they crossed half court, you better pick them
Speaker 1: up and everything. Their teams were predicated around making sure
Speaker 1: they get shots off. Eight years overseas you said, when
Speaker 1: did coaching come into the picture for you? Man? I
Speaker 1: never think I was gonna be a coach. Just start. Hold,
Speaker 1: let me take it back. When did you Because you
Speaker 1: started the training space right, started started the training space
Speaker 1: and then with transition. So when did how did you
Speaker 1: go from a player right to trainer? Well, basically started
Speaker 1: giving people bag. See what it is is a lot
Speaker 1: of guys played basketball, but they don't have nothing in
Speaker 1: their bags, so they got bag. So they went to
Speaker 1: the field to feel their bag. You know, when I
Speaker 1: was in Australia, I had some some parents of the kids, saying,
Speaker 1: you know, kids are like big fans. Would you would
Speaker 1: you train them? You know which you could you do
Speaker 1: some workouts with them? And I started doing like workouts
Speaker 1: with some of the kids. I pull out a garbage
Speaker 1: can send them through some else. Man. Every time I
Speaker 1: left the gym, Man, I felt I just felt renewed,
Speaker 1: Like it was a whole different sense of purpose. Like
Speaker 1: I got to a point to where during the season,
Speaker 1: all my off days I was trying to I was
Speaker 1: trying to train kids like I would leave the gym
Speaker 1: man and felt like I felt like I did something.
Speaker 1: I had never felt like that before. It was a
Speaker 1: totally different feeling for me. So when I when I retired,
Speaker 1: you know, I was just like Man. My last year
Speaker 1: in Australia, I was really just gonna take a year
Speaker 1: off because I had played in Europe for eight years.
Speaker 1: My parents were getting older. You know, when you play
Speaker 1: over there, you're gone for ten months, so I spent
Speaker 1: some time in the state. So so let me take
Speaker 1: a year off and spend some time in the family.
Speaker 1: And I was gonna go back to my team. You know,
Speaker 1: we had already set up a multi year deal for
Speaker 1: me to come back. I took that year off. Man,
Speaker 1: it was like, I'm done. I'm not going back to
Speaker 1: At this point, I was thirty one, I was young,
Speaker 1: you know, thirty one, and I was just like, I'm cool,
Speaker 1: I'm done. I didn't. I got to a place where
Speaker 1: I knew I was not mentally in that space of
Speaker 1: what taking care of your body, having to lock in
Speaker 1: watch what you eat being I said, man, if I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna be able to do it at the best
Speaker 1: of my ability, and I'm done, I'm finished. And so
Speaker 1: I walked away from it. I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: what's next? And I went into real estate for like
Speaker 1: a year, just some investment, educated myself in real estate
Speaker 1: and God would have do with by one of my partners,
Speaker 1: and started buying properties and and I was like, after
Speaker 1: about a year, I was like, no, it's not for me.
Speaker 1: I was. I felt like I was missing something. I
Speaker 1: was missing the game man. Me and Tony Dealk used
Speaker 1: to work out together. This is how my career in
Speaker 1: player development kind of started. You know, me and TV
Speaker 1: used to work out, hooped together. Again. He was with
Speaker 1: the Warriors, and when I retired, you know, TV was like, man,
Speaker 1: you know, let let's get some workouts in. I was like, man,
Speaker 1: I'm done hooping. He's like no, you know, he was
Speaker 1: living in Phoenix at the times, like come down here
Speaker 1: and you know, let's get some work in. Put me
Speaker 1: through some workhouts. And I would and spent a week
Speaker 1: with TV, and man, we got some great work in.
Speaker 1: I went home and TV was like, look, we we
Speaker 1: gotta do this for the rest of the summer. So
Speaker 1: I would go to Phoenish from Sunday to Thursday, go
Speaker 1: back to the bay Sunday and Thursday go back to
Speaker 1: the bank. And every week TD had more due show
Speaker 1: up to the gym. Eddie House, you know, I Anie House,
Speaker 1: Sean Mary and started coming at the time. You know Stackhouse,
Speaker 1: I mean our stack house, but Stottemeyer wasn't Phoenish. They
Speaker 1: all these dudes started coming to the gym and I
Speaker 1: was just figuring out how to work these dudes out,
Speaker 1: work with them. And TV was like, listen, bro, you
Speaker 1: have a knack for this. The way you see the
Speaker 1: game and the way you dissecting your drills and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. Bro, you need to you need to seriously
Speaker 1: consider jump into this business. And at that time, this
Speaker 1: was two thousand three, basketball industry was nil. There was
Speaker 1: a few dudes. Gustus is your mentor, my mentor. Gus
Speaker 1: was one of the very few people right that was
Speaker 1: doing it, and he was doing it for years. Matt Right,
Speaker 1: So you man, I used to go to the gym.
Speaker 1: I said, man, let me, let me go down here
Speaker 1: and learn from Gus. And Gus took me in, Let
Speaker 1: me be in the gym. He gave me a voice.
Speaker 1: And at that point I knew. I said, man, this
Speaker 1: is what I want to do. And so I I
Speaker 1: just laid down the foundation. I started a business. My
Speaker 1: very first client, true client, was a kid who lived
Speaker 1: in Marine. You from the bay, I mean from the
Speaker 1: Marine is way out there stack And at this time
Speaker 1: I was living at eld Raddo Hills. So it was
Speaker 1: an hour and forty five minute dry huh Marne County
Speaker 1: game from one of my first kids. I could charge
Speaker 1: his kid five dollars. Man, I would drive hour and
Speaker 1: forty five minutes. It cost more to get there. It
Speaker 1: was more to put gas in my car. I charged
Speaker 1: that kid twenty five dollars and let little did I know,
Speaker 1: I didn't know much about the Marine area. That's one
Speaker 1: of the most affluent counties in the country. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't really understand that I trained this
Speaker 1: kid and this kid became one of the best players
Speaker 1: in the county. It opened up the floodgates. Next thing
Speaker 1: you know, I'm training high schools. I'm training a U programs.
Speaker 1: So I went from one kid at an hour or
Speaker 1: two about fifty kids in about a two month span.
Speaker 1: And I was probably charging these kids fifty dollars a session.
Speaker 1: It was taking the trip to see what people don't understand. Man,
Speaker 1: like my journey in this in this business, man, it
Speaker 1: would at my over a thirteen year of span. Brothers,
Speaker 1: I did this for thirteen years. And the way it built,
Speaker 1: you know, it started with that one kid. I would
Speaker 1: be a marine. I would be at Stanford, I would
Speaker 1: be at U. C. Davis, I would be at St. Mary's,
Speaker 1: I would be at cow Berkeley. I had all these
Speaker 1: different pockets to where on any given day during the week,
Speaker 1: I'll be driving five hundred miles to get into different gyms.
Speaker 1: The whip was the office for my bags from my cones.
Speaker 1: But it really got to a point where I just
Speaker 1: that was it for me. Man. I was in the
Speaker 1: gym fourteen hours a day training kids, and then it
Speaker 1: eventually started bleeding into NBA players, college players, European players,
Speaker 1: and it became a full blown business for me over
Speaker 1: thirteen years. And that was like my calling. I feel
Speaker 1: like to this day, sitting here on this couch, that's
Speaker 1: what I'll put on this earth to do, is to
Speaker 1: tease the game of basketball and try to inspire people
Speaker 1: through that. Through that channel, it's real for me. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, you're one of the best, are you worry?
Speaker 1: You still are, but obviously have a bigger time town.
Speaker 1: But you're one of the best trainers in the game,
Speaker 1: you said earlier than coaching never even came to mind.
Speaker 1: So how did that transition from training to coaching happened? Man?
Speaker 1: You know, Matt I when I started, I like, I
Speaker 1: had a lot of bad coaches myself that that really
Speaker 1: deprived me confidence wise. Like you know, we've all had
Speaker 1: coaches that try to tell you down. And I went
Speaker 1: into the business of wanting to train young athletes to
Speaker 1: help build their confidence. You give them a platform and say, look,
Speaker 1: this is what you can do. Put it into hard work,
Speaker 1: but you can, you know, let me give you some confidence. Um,
Speaker 1: I started working with with St. Mary's College, and the
Speaker 1: first thing I said to myself was, look, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go in this intage. I want to be one of
Speaker 1: the best to ever do it. That was my mindset.
Speaker 1: So I started training St. Mary's College. Randy Bennett and
Speaker 1: Mike Brown were college roommates. Know, so Lloyd Pierce would
Speaker 1: do some workouts. This is how Lord Pierce started NBA.
Speaker 1: He went to Cleveland. Randy sent him to Cleveland and
Speaker 1: go work with Mike in the summertime, and then Lord
Speaker 1: Pierce ended up on the coach and staff. So Mike
Speaker 1: went through that whole thing, and then he got hired
Speaker 1: by the Lakers. And I was coaching St. Mary's. I
Speaker 1: mean not coaching, but training their players. And Randy was like, listen, man,
Speaker 1: you have to take this job. And at the time,
Speaker 1: my business was booming, like my training business was booming.
Speaker 1: I work when I want, didn't work when I didn't want.
Speaker 1: I had clients all over the place, and I was
Speaker 1: just like, no, I'm not interested. We took up pay
Speaker 1: cut to go to the Lakers did. But here's the deal, man.
Speaker 1: I got to a point where I was like, Lesten,
Speaker 1: you say you want to be one of the best
Speaker 1: in the industry. Then you have to see what that
Speaker 1: looks like. In order to see what that looks like,
Speaker 1: you have to work with the best. The opportunity to
Speaker 1: work with Kobe was the deciding factor for me. That
Speaker 1: was it that pushed me over the airs to say, man,
Speaker 1: you have to take this opportunity to forget about the money,
Speaker 1: forget about what you're leaving behind. You can always go
Speaker 1: back to it. I was ten years ago, ain't been
Speaker 1: back with Loki summertimes. You still do it? Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: and now it's more out of just passion. But that decision.
Speaker 1: I wanted to test myself. I wanted to see, if
Speaker 1: you know, the things that I'm trying to teach and
Speaker 1: the pieces of the game and I'm trying to help
Speaker 1: people with, is it valid and is it value? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You know, I know I work with a lot of
Speaker 1: NBA players, But can you can you help somebody like that?
Speaker 1: Or how do you help someone like that? Is the question,
Speaker 1: you know, And it wasn't even so much, you know,
Speaker 1: how do you impact Mike hired Man and said, look,
Speaker 1: you gotta figure out how to get the relationship with Kobe.
Speaker 1: That's what he told me Matt you know so man,
Speaker 1: you were there, I mean, you know, And for me,
Speaker 1: it was just the opportunity yourself just to to get
Speaker 1: get there and learn and figure out what that looks like.
Speaker 1: That was. That was what would push me into And
Speaker 1: again I didn't know anything about coaching. Remember our first
Speaker 1: day of training camp mat that first day when the
Speaker 1: blockout ended bro my head, I thought my head was
Speaker 1: gonna explode stack all the information. That was the first
Speaker 1: time I had been in that environment of understanding offensive
Speaker 1: breakdown Mike and Mike Brown is it. And so I
Speaker 1: was sitting on the sideline that day while he was
Speaker 1: just walking to him, and I was just like, no,
Speaker 1: what is this? And that was our transition from fields
Speaker 1: last year having cancer to Mike Brown the very next year.
Speaker 1: So and Mike and Fielder that day, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. So this this Laker team as an attitude
Speaker 1: of you know, I went off two championships, we lost.
Speaker 1: I feel retired. And then Mike Brown came that next year.
Speaker 1: But it was just like night and Day and their
Speaker 1: philosophies in their approach. So it took a minute for
Speaker 1: motherfucker's really buy into what what the game plan? Was,
Speaker 1: But what over more than that, What was it like
Speaker 1: actually trying to be friends teach, become one with Kobe? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I looked at it like this, though. Man,
Speaker 1: I had to I had to try to do that
Speaker 1: with all you guys because I didn't you know, I
Speaker 1: knew you a little bit briefly. But but how do
Speaker 1: you how do you come into a team environment and
Speaker 1: and understand each individual player and figure out how you
Speaker 1: can help them or work with them. Man, I think
Speaker 1: the code thing was b Shaw. I told me. I
Speaker 1: called b Shaw when I took the job. Shout out, listen, man.
Speaker 1: Be was crucial. He said, film gonna tell you just
Speaker 1: like this, do not let him punk you. No matter what.
Speaker 1: Do not let him punk you. You stand up for yourself.
Speaker 1: He's gonna test you. And so I didn't really I
Speaker 1: was like, all right, cool, I don't really know what
Speaker 1: that looks like. But I got the job. I didn't
Speaker 1: really speak to Code, you know, I just I did
Speaker 1: my job. I got to the gym early on the
Speaker 1: floor and did my work with the players I was
Speaker 1: working with. And there was a couple of days where
Speaker 1: Cold would come out, he come out of training room,
Speaker 1: he sit on a chair and watched he watched me,
Speaker 1: and he go back in the room and nothing was
Speaker 1: said of it, and really didn't really develop a relationship
Speaker 1: with him until a couple of weeks later, you know,
Speaker 1: when he finally he hit me one day on text.
Speaker 1: Was like, yo, man, just meet me at the gym.
Speaker 1: You know, I told this story a few times, but
Speaker 1: you know, he was meet me at the gym, and
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, bet let's go. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, I showed up at the gym that night
Speaker 1: and he was like, meet me at the gym at five,
Speaker 1: and you know what that means. I showed him that
Speaker 1: night thinking we was gonna work waiting for this dude
Speaker 1: was not there. So I was like, okay, this is
Speaker 1: what we're on. I didn't say nothing. I went to
Speaker 1: practice next morning, you know, showed up early, seven thirty,
Speaker 1: practiced at ten. Man that man came out giving me, hell, hey, bro,
Speaker 1: the yelling and what the funk you're doing that week?
Speaker 1: You know you ain't showing up for work. And I
Speaker 1: was like, man, I was here. You know, he was
Speaker 1: no man, not four forty five and PM. I meant
Speaker 1: this morning. And so that for me, manro it messed
Speaker 1: me up because I was like, damn okay. And after that,
Speaker 1: you know, the relationship started. And you know, the first
Speaker 1: question I asked him was, man, what what can I
Speaker 1: help What can I help you with? You know, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at this dude like, man, I'm here to
Speaker 1: learn from you. You know, it's kind of kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And he was just like, man, I want to get
Speaker 1: better with my ball Helen. I didn't even get better
Speaker 1: with my ball haleing. Sprinkle some stuff into my footwork,
Speaker 1: and and that was just how it started. Man, you know,
Speaker 1: gave him some things on the ball haling and and
Speaker 1: he was the type of dude that was like, look,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take what I need and leave the rest.
Speaker 1: And he told me exactly what he wanted. It was
Speaker 1: my at that point. It was my up to me
Speaker 1: to put it together and and and up him as
Speaker 1: best I could. But that was that was the ultimate
Speaker 1: challenge for me, and to be able to build a
Speaker 1: relationship with him, you know how it is matter It
Speaker 1: was just down that wall. It ain't easy and it
Speaker 1: really is just just one just tried to beat myself,
Speaker 1: you know, and be as organic with it with it
Speaker 1: as it could how did you and pay drop Bard
Speaker 1: the Lakers? This one right here? Me and Matt was straight, bro,
Speaker 1: it's already cool, Bro, we were already to come up
Speaker 1: the sack. So my trainer was his mentor, so obviously
Speaker 1: Phil around. Like I said, we didn't know each other great,
Speaker 1: but we had seen each other. So once I see him, like,
Speaker 1: oh what's up? And then this, like I said, this
Speaker 1: is the ultimate workout. Due. So I'm just like, let
Speaker 1: me give a film, see what I could do. Get
Speaker 1: a lot I've been trying to get, trying to get
Speaker 1: the twins with it. For me, it's busy winning man.
Speaker 1: We're gonna get it. We're gonna get it, Bro, We're
Speaker 1: gonna get it for sure this summer. Yeah, definitely. So
Speaker 1: from the Lakers you head to the Calves. So you
Speaker 1: go from Cobe to ky Re at the time, and
Speaker 1: then Lebron ends up joining. So what was that treasures like?
Speaker 1: Going from l A to Cleveland. It was tough. Um,
Speaker 1: it was tough on just a lot of different reading, right,
Speaker 1: because again, my first opportunity to come into the league
Speaker 1: as a coach was like I'm going to coach with
Speaker 1: the Lakers, you know, And so Cleveland was it's just like, man,
Speaker 1: what am I going to Cleveland for? You know? And
Speaker 1: and really I had to really start to shift and
Speaker 1: understand what the business was about, right with the business.
Speaker 1: So Mike, Mike got fired, d'An Tony came in, you know,
Speaker 1: and the Lakers were going through a phase of uncertainty,
Speaker 1: you know, those few years it was just what are
Speaker 1: they gonna do? And so I give miss cup Check
Speaker 1: a lot of props because he called me into his
Speaker 1: office one day and said, look, the Calves of the
Speaker 1: Calves are called and their interesting interview even and I
Speaker 1: really think you ought to You ought to look at
Speaker 1: this opportunity. We don't know what's gonna happen here. He
Speaker 1: could have he couldn't have said that, you could have
Speaker 1: just let it play out. He said, look, I think
Speaker 1: you ought to really seriously consider this opportunity if they
Speaker 1: want you, And um, I went did the interview and
Speaker 1: and Mike offered me the job. And I think the
Speaker 1: real the thing that that kind of sold me on
Speaker 1: it was I didn't know Kyrie, I didn't know to
Speaker 1: care from out and I hadn't really studied this game.
Speaker 1: But when I started watching film on him, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to work with this I want to work
Speaker 1: with this kid Man and Mike I had already put
Speaker 1: it out there. That's what that's that's what we want
Speaker 1: you here for. It was I was the best. That
Speaker 1: was probably the best move I made in my career
Speaker 1: and making that decision to go and do it, because again,
Speaker 1: it helped me help me validate just my thought process
Speaker 1: on how to train and how to help how to
Speaker 1: help players get better. It validated it. And and Cole
Speaker 1: was he was. He was instrumental in that. I say
Speaker 1: you were. You were instrumental in getting Kyrie and Kobe together.
Speaker 1: Tell us about how that happened. Yeah, man, kay was
Speaker 1: kay was slippery, bro, he was, you know, he was.
Speaker 1: He was slipping when I first got to Cleveland. Man,
Speaker 1: Kaye tried to hit me with the hit me with
Speaker 1: the bat phone number and you know, not answer the calls.
Speaker 1: He was slippery, you know, and rightfully so he didn't know.
Speaker 1: He didn't know. Yeah, but Scott was guy just got fired.
Speaker 1: So he was he was angry. You know, here we
Speaker 1: come in. He's like, man, like, I don't know, Yeah
Speaker 1: I did. I did one workout with Kyrie and then
Speaker 1: he disappeared right, gave me some number they never checked.
Speaker 1: So I got through this process. I was like, all right, look,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to reach this dude another way. I
Speaker 1: knew we respected code and CO really liked his game,
Speaker 1: and so I just hit Cold one. That's look, man,
Speaker 1: I need you to I need you to mentor this
Speaker 1: kid like I really need you to to to to
Speaker 1: go and if you're okay with it, like give him
Speaker 1: some energy. He's like, bet, I got you. I like it.
Speaker 1: And I told Kai said listen. We finally sat down
Speaker 1: and talked, and I had to fly to Miami to
Speaker 1: talk to this dude to like, listen, man, I don't
Speaker 1: want nothing from me. I don't need nothing from you
Speaker 1: except for you to learn how to work. I want
Speaker 1: you to pick up the phone and call Kobe. He did,
Speaker 1: and they went off to the races, and it just
Speaker 1: you saw a mind shift. He saw a shift. Cold
Speaker 1: really really took him in and kayle Man just bought
Speaker 1: into the work and that changed. That changed his whole
Speaker 1: his whole approach to the game and just understand how
Speaker 1: to take care of his body right off the court,
Speaker 1: being in the weight room taking care of so he
Speaker 1: doesn't be as injured as much, but then challenging him
Speaker 1: to understand what the work means for your game. And
Speaker 1: once he saw that it was over, he just took it.
Speaker 1: He just took it to a whole another level. He
Speaker 1: got the biggest he got the best field bag. He
Speaker 1: got like, nah, Stack, I can't even I can't even
Speaker 1: let it go down like that, got a bag of
Speaker 1: his own. Now, what we did. What we did was
Speaker 1: was fine tune his bag exactly to where he started
Speaker 1: really locking in on details of his footwork, of his balance,
Speaker 1: on how to get how to get guys off to
Speaker 1: where you can get to a spot and get to
Speaker 1: your mid range, how to be able to better finisher,
Speaker 1: how to pull up at the three. Once he really
Speaker 1: like honed in on the small details. Man, Bro, he
Speaker 1: wanted the coldest man. Listen, I will I'm you just
Speaker 1: coached the beast. I'm gonna go out on a limb
Speaker 1: and say, he is probably one of the most skilled
Speaker 1: dudes to ever play this game. Like like skill standpoint, Bro,
Speaker 1: he scored all three levels. Right, most guys you know
Speaker 1: they can do it, but he scores. He's a little
Speaker 1: to be on the post getting he definitely get people
Speaker 1: post you shoot the three, shoot the mid range, like
Speaker 1: you said, stack get he going left right? Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: he's um And he was just missing one thing, the
Speaker 1: work ethic. He was missing the work ethic. And then
Speaker 1: you know, as a young player, what do you miss?
Speaker 1: Then you miss another alpha, like somebody that can really
Speaker 1: kind of kind of help you, King James, bring the
Speaker 1: beast man, let me let me take you to a
Speaker 1: help you go to another level. So what was it
Speaker 1: like there was a whisper it could have possibly happen
Speaker 1: when it actually happened, Lebron coming back to Cleveland, what
Speaker 1: was your thought process and how excited were you to
Speaker 1: kind of okay, so now we got Bron for Kyrie
Speaker 1: and let's see what we can do. Man, that changed
Speaker 1: the whole organization overnight. All right. We went from you know,
Speaker 1: being a young, young team to trying to figure out
Speaker 1: how to win games too. Now you catapulsed into the finals,
Speaker 1: like okay, the whole projection and there, man, man, Cleveland's
Speaker 1: on top. And again I didn't know Braun, I had
Speaker 1: no relationship with him whatsoever. And um, you know, just
Speaker 1: another one of those things to figure out a way
Speaker 1: to integrate a relationship. And for me, the common denominator
Speaker 1: out of all of those dudes everybody has always been
Speaker 1: what through the work on the floor. That's it, right,
Speaker 1: because that's my that's my number one thing. It's just
Speaker 1: let's get the work in the rest of it, the
Speaker 1: relationships that we built, because you're gonna understand who I am.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to know who you are. But it's
Speaker 1: through the work, nothing else. And Braun was the same
Speaker 1: man his first day back to Cleveland. Now I sat
Speaker 1: down and asked me, said, man, where where where areas
Speaker 1: you want to improve? Where you want to get better? Now?
Speaker 1: How can I help assist you in that process? And
Speaker 1: Brown was just like, man, I'm footwork ball, Hanley posted,
Speaker 1: I want to get better at everything. And I will
Speaker 1: say this to this day, man for somebody of his caliber,
Speaker 1: that man is a student of the game and he
Speaker 1: wants to be coached like he he wants to be
Speaker 1: uncomfortable to continue to get better every day even to
Speaker 1: this point. M hm. So what was it like, I mean,
Speaker 1: you as a coach, being there obviously on the outside
Speaker 1: looking in you here, you know that there was some
Speaker 1: head button with Currie and Lebron as a coach and
Speaker 1: as someone who worked closely with both of them. What
Speaker 1: did you see Because obviously, like you always hear ship
Speaker 1: from the outside, but I've been in locker rooms right here,
Speaker 1: stuff like that ship ain't even close to what's going on.
Speaker 1: So from being on the inside, what did you see
Speaker 1: between that dynamic? Man? You know how to meet You
Speaker 1: always try to portray something that's not there. You know
Speaker 1: you have you have too. Two dudes that are playing
Speaker 1: at a high level. One Brian came in with the
Speaker 1: mindset of trying to trying to help and adjust the kyrie, Like, look, man,
Speaker 1: do us you dynamic? I need to I need to
Speaker 1: figure out how to play with you, and we need
Speaker 1: to figure how to play together. There was no issues,
Speaker 1: like you know, it's normal stuff you go through a season, right,
Speaker 1: dudes trying to figure out how to play with each other.
Speaker 1: They didn't have any issues none. And I think what
Speaker 1: happened in the media is whatever. You know, they painted
Speaker 1: that picture and you know the storylines a ran. You know,
Speaker 1: people can flip it anyway you want. But them two
Speaker 1: got along, man, they got what they're best friends now
Speaker 1: were best friends, but they got along right and there
Speaker 1: was a relationship there. Obviously, the relationship was there. We
Speaker 1: were winning. You know, you guys have seen enough of
Speaker 1: it where two guys that don't get along that's just
Speaker 1: spills over to the court. They don't don't go that way. Man.
Speaker 1: They were, that's one of them. That's one of the
Speaker 1: most dynamic duels man ever put together. They were. They
Speaker 1: were as dynamic and different to complement each other's games, right,
Speaker 1: And I just think Kai is one of those dudes. Man,
Speaker 1: he misunderstood a lot of people don't really know him
Speaker 1: and understand him. We've been that way, you know. I
Speaker 1: mean a lot of players get that, get that rap
Speaker 1: when people don't actually get to know who you guys are.
Speaker 1: What takes the time part, Because like I said, I
Speaker 1: didn't take the time to get to carry and I
Speaker 1: made some misconception. And like I said, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: admend to that now. It fix that because like I said,
Speaker 1: for him to love him, for Color to love him,
Speaker 1: for Michelle to love him, like, there's gotta be something
Speaker 1: special about this dude that my family knows something special
Speaker 1: about him, dude, and I think he Kai is a
Speaker 1: you know, he maybe he wanted ultimate competitor to you
Speaker 1: know how people sometimes they grow and they want to
Speaker 1: figure out if they can do things on their own, right.
Speaker 1: That's that's normal. That's normal. Man. I appreciate you, big bro.
Speaker 1: I how to find out. I want to find out
Speaker 1: what kind of what kind of dude I eat? Or
Speaker 1: I could be right? So your first run Brown because
Speaker 1: of back fifteen, you guys make a run to the finals.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately Kai and kay Love aren't there. You guys get
Speaker 1: beat by the Warriors. What kind of a learning experience
Speaker 1: was it? Getting there? Not being at full strength, but
Speaker 1: still getting there? Man? All about competing? Really, man, it
Speaker 1: was really we had a and Matthew delave Adova, tough kid,
Speaker 1: you know, we had j R. Smith, Emmons Schumpert, Tristan
Speaker 1: was rowing. We had to god our team, you know,
Speaker 1: Kyrie and kay Love he was parts of it injured. Man.
Speaker 1: We just thugged it out. That was that was really
Speaker 1: the mentality. Tell you, man, People don't even Matthew Dellavedova
Speaker 1: was on I v S after every game because he
Speaker 1: was given everything he had on the floor, Like he
Speaker 1: was literally on I v S too to rejult his system.
Speaker 1: After every game, Bro, People don't even know that, like,
Speaker 1: and for us to go shorthanded, I mean at one
Speaker 1: point in that series we were up to the one.
Speaker 1: We went back to Cleveland, went back to Cleveland, we
Speaker 1: were up to the one. I mean, we were competing,
Speaker 1: but you know, just just shorthanded. And I think it
Speaker 1: taught us really about one when you get there, it's
Speaker 1: not guaranteed, and you don't know, you don't know if
Speaker 1: you're gonna make it back. And so that whole next season, man,
Speaker 1: we just health was important. You know, you gotta you
Speaker 1: gotta two things. You gotta you gotta have a little
Speaker 1: bit of luck and you gotta have some health. People
Speaker 1: think it's all talent. Luck and health play a big
Speaker 1: part of championship runs. Man, they do, and unfortunately sometimes
Speaker 1: either on your team or it's or it's against you
Speaker 1: as as a cold part of the game. Because I
Speaker 1: mean the Worriors got a little tasted that the following year.
Speaker 1: So in six team coach Black gets dismissed. He little
Speaker 1: takes over. You guys are down three one, Um Draymond
Speaker 1: gets suspended. You guys making amazing at this the seventh
Speaker 1: seventy three and nine team going for the greatest team
Speaker 1: of all time and you got stuck a fork inn
Speaker 1: down down three one, Draymond is suspended. You guys make
Speaker 1: a comeback. What was that experience like game by game
Speaker 1: being down three one? What was that locker room and
Speaker 1: vibe like, man, that's a one game singular focus after
Speaker 1: game for the game five, game four three one. After
Speaker 1: game four in Cleveland, the locker room was calm. You know. Look,
Speaker 1: t Lou and Brown were at the catalyst of that.
Speaker 1: Their mindset was like, man, if you guys don't believe
Speaker 1: we can go to Oakland and win this next game,
Speaker 1: do not get on the plane. That's our focus, anything
Speaker 1: about nothing else. We got one game to win. And
Speaker 1: that was the attitude really coming out of the locker room.
Speaker 1: We left that night. Everybody got on the plane. It
Speaker 1: was a business trip. They were locked in. The dudes
Speaker 1: were locked in just to the moment of we gotta
Speaker 1: win this game tonight. And Kyrie and Brown went out
Speaker 1: there and put on the show boy. That was nasty, man,
Speaker 1: but it was nasty, and they were just tip for tat,
Speaker 1: just tipped for tat. It wasn't and the team really
Speaker 1: just again, you know the part of Draymond being kicked
Speaker 1: out of that, you know, spend it for that next game.
Speaker 1: It's just like, no matter what, we have to go
Speaker 1: here with the purpose to win the game. Does that
Speaker 1: help the situation? Absolutely? Draymond man impacts the game the
Speaker 1: way he does. But regardless, we gotta go win the game.
Speaker 1: So y'all put your shoes on, get your hard hats on. Man,
Speaker 1: let's let's go out here and play. And it was
Speaker 1: just like one game at a time. Man, that's really
Speaker 1: it's hard. You know, we've all been in that situation
Speaker 1: right close out games and whatnot when I go home.
Speaker 1: So you guys were able to walk them down win
Speaker 1: the championship, first championship in fifty two years for Cleveland Sports.
Speaker 1: What would that experience like to to to win it
Speaker 1: in that fashion? Uh? Against you know, like I said
Speaker 1: the words of seventy three and nine that year, man
Speaker 1: asked one. There's there's so many storylines. I'm from the Bay,
Speaker 1: you know, bron from Cleveland. To be able for Brian
Speaker 1: to come back home and encompass that. You know, we're
Speaker 1: the only team in history to come back in the
Speaker 1: finals three one. There's so many different storylines in the
Speaker 1: city of Cleveland was lit, man, Cleveland was lit. People
Speaker 1: talk about Cleveland amazing city, and my time there was amazing.
Speaker 1: But that city and the whole state was lit. Like
Speaker 1: if you see the pictures, Man, it was a couple
Speaker 1: of smith didn't wear a shirt for a month. Hey, rightfully,
Speaker 1: so rightfully? So, man, that's the pinnacle right there. But
Speaker 1: now Cleveland was that experience to this to this day.
Speaker 1: That's to me, that's still my the most memorable one
Speaker 1: for me for just just how we had to do it,
Speaker 1: the process. So you guys obviously make it back running
Speaker 1: to the Warriors again, Katie jumps ship and goes to
Speaker 1: Golden State. What was it like playing against those Warrior teams?
Speaker 1: With all that we're talking about it earlier with how
Speaker 1: tough it was chasing stuff around last night? But add
Speaker 1: Katie to that mix, add Clay to that mix, and
Speaker 1: all them boys is hitting on all cylinders? What was
Speaker 1: it like going up against those Warrior teams? And you
Speaker 1: just shake your head, man, I mean, bro, it's um
Speaker 1: they were game planning for them. You know, I give
Speaker 1: you f Tlu a lot of credit. Man. Our coaching staff,
Speaker 1: like t Louise, very very savvy and some of his
Speaker 1: approaches of trying to slow them down. You ain't are
Speaker 1: you what are you gonna do? You have to try
Speaker 1: to slow them down, and it's just you know, you
Speaker 1: got three headed monster and let's let's legit, man. We
Speaker 1: just we just try to compete as best we could.
Speaker 1: You know, you try to put yourself in a position
Speaker 1: where one you have to try to make them work
Speaker 1: on the defensive end, But really, I mean, what can
Speaker 1: you do with that? That was those were Those were
Speaker 1: some tough, some tough battles against a against a team
Speaker 1: that just had a lot of firepower. But the thing
Speaker 1: to me that people don't talk about enough. Yes, those
Speaker 1: three dudes and who they are, but we really made
Speaker 1: them great with the freaking players around them, role players
Speaker 1: and dudes really bought into their roles and they did
Speaker 1: them roles at a high level. That's what made them
Speaker 1: three do so so old, dynamic, and even harder to
Speaker 1: guard because the other dudes on the floor smart, man,
Speaker 1: they were smart. They knew what they were doing, they
Speaker 1: knew what to play, they knew when to try to score.
Speaker 1: Egua Dolla, you know Livingston Barbosa, you know David west Bogan,
Speaker 1: you know David Lee bro I mean, all of these
Speaker 1: dudes were just cerebral players, and it's just people didn't
Speaker 1: give enough credit to the to the supporting castle they have.
Speaker 1: So your Cleveland, your time in Cleveland, Uh comes to
Speaker 1: an end. You end up going to Toronto. You you
Speaker 1: told us how you got there. Um, what was it
Speaker 1: like getting to work with Kyle Lowry and and and
Speaker 1: and Kauai and on the build up to that finals run? Yeah? Man,
Speaker 1: it was Toronto was Toronto was a dope experience. Man,
Speaker 1: that's a dope city. Great people who man, great great city.
Speaker 1: I got a couple of kids out there. I thought
Speaker 1: I did, but out uh I think. Um. I had
Speaker 1: a misconception with Kyle Lowry, you know, just playing against
Speaker 1: all the years, he's just he's an irritant, right, And
Speaker 1: I hated coaching against him because he just he messed
Speaker 1: with the game. He knows how to mess with the game. Cepts.
Speaker 1: Those dudes, man, they know how to manipulate the game,
Speaker 1: super smart and so playing against him all those years,
Speaker 1: I was just like, man, still get on my nerves.
Speaker 1: But once I got to Toronto and was actually in
Speaker 1: the gym with him and saw what his process was
Speaker 1: about every day what straight pro like pro every day
Speaker 1: man on it. He competes every night, he leaves it
Speaker 1: on the floor for his teammates and just a stand
Speaker 1: up dude, like like an incredible, incredible dude off the
Speaker 1: court as well. So my respect for him and is
Speaker 1: at a high high level. Um again, I didn't know Kauai.
Speaker 1: Didn't know Kauai from Adam that never had a relationship
Speaker 1: with him. And he he is not what people think,
Speaker 1: you know, just from the sense of his personality. Um,
Speaker 1: his Kauai got a little bit of he got a
Speaker 1: little bit of comedian in it. Man of that ship
Speaker 1: go around listen here, l a dude he is. He is.
Speaker 1: He is in l a dude like through and two
Speaker 1: and when and when you're around him, you know and
Speaker 1: you get to know him. Oh man, he is not
Speaker 1: what people think. B But Kauai is cut from the
Speaker 1: same cloth as cold as brown, as m J. Like,
Speaker 1: he cut from that cloth in the sense that his
Speaker 1: work and the first time we worked out together, um,
Speaker 1: you know, after the trade and stuff cleared, you know,
Speaker 1: I reached out to him and said, man, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: just excited to you know, get with you and try
Speaker 1: to build. And he was like when you come in
Speaker 1: to San Diego. And we got to San Diego and
Speaker 1: we got in the gym, and he's just a a
Speaker 1: little coach. I'll just tell you like that, I like
Speaker 1: the gym quiet. I don't like people in the gym.
Speaker 1: I like to get my work in. That set the
Speaker 1: tone right there, set the tone. And he is just
Speaker 1: one of those dudes that like really just about getting better.
Speaker 1: You know, he wanted He's like, Yo, I want to
Speaker 1: get with COLDE. You know how when when can we
Speaker 1: get with cold I'm I'm trying to trying to get
Speaker 1: that that process. So we got what We went went
Speaker 1: down and spend some time with Cold just and he
Speaker 1: was always luck man, I want I want to I
Speaker 1: want to figure out this post up stuff. I want
Speaker 1: to get my footwork round. I want to get my
Speaker 1: handles right. You know, I want to be able to
Speaker 1: be able to shake dudes free and create. And he
Speaker 1: was just really one of them dudes. Man. It just
Speaker 1: student of the game. You know, people think he's not
Speaker 1: a leader. Leadership comes in different ways, right, It's not
Speaker 1: always vocal. Example, he shows up. No you're not perfect,
Speaker 1: but he shows up and he works. He's a worker,
Speaker 1: He is in the gym working on his craft all
Speaker 1: the time. Man, and just a competitor. He wanted to
Speaker 1: do as it compete man. It was it was a
Speaker 1: great opportunity for me to again work with some work
Speaker 1: with some other guys around the league that I didn't know.
Speaker 1: So you guys make this run to the finals. Um,
Speaker 1: what was it like in that series leading into the
Speaker 1: finals against Philly? Kauai hits that shot that takes like
Speaker 1: seven seconds to actually go in the basket. Um, How
Speaker 1: what kind of series was that versus Philly? That was
Speaker 1: the most physical one of the most physical series I've
Speaker 1: I've been a part of. Yeah, that that series, man
Speaker 1: was tough. They prepared us, you know for like every
Speaker 1: round that we played in prepared us for something. But
Speaker 1: they they prepared us. They were physical as ship man
Speaker 1: Like Jimmy Butler, you know, he was a big part
Speaker 1: of the team. But Ben is been is a physical dude.
Speaker 1: People don't understand how physical. They don't understand how physical
Speaker 1: being is. Being is physical and beat is big. You know,
Speaker 1: their whole team, they were a big team and us
Speaker 1: they had to bias, so they played a big lineup,
Speaker 1: and so their their size was a problem. And so
Speaker 1: what they do was, you know, they stuck in beat
Speaker 1: on Pascal, which Colin you know Pascal year man, he
Speaker 1: was he was giving people problems at that fourth spot.
Speaker 1: But you know, and b was so big, you know,
Speaker 1: he could take away some of his drives, take away
Speaker 1: his post ups. So they kind of kind of nullified
Speaker 1: him a little bit. And they just they threw bodies
Speaker 1: at Kauai, you know, Jimmy guarden him to Bias guard
Speaker 1: and being guard him. You know, they had multiple guys
Speaker 1: and it was a it was a physical, physical series, man.
Speaker 1: And as you can tell, Game seven I think could
Speaker 1: win anyway. It could have because it really Philly. At
Speaker 1: one point they had us down two to one, right,
Speaker 1: they had us down to one. We had to win
Speaker 1: game four in Philly or they would have went up
Speaker 1: three one. And that game Kauai just he took that
Speaker 1: game over at the end. But that was a that
Speaker 1: was a must win game for us, and I think
Speaker 1: that right there was the turning point for the series
Speaker 1: for us in the team because they were they were
Speaker 1: they were at our heads, man, because we won game
Speaker 1: one and they won Game two and three and they
Speaker 1: won them games emphatically. It wasn't like they were Yeah,
Speaker 1: they was beating us. So it was game four was
Speaker 1: it was a he was adjustment. Adjustment. But um, that
Speaker 1: Philly series was one of the toughest ones I've been
Speaker 1: a part of. And then you spoke on earlier. You
Speaker 1: needed a little bit of luck and obviously grind and talent.
Speaker 1: You guys run into a warrior team that that it's
Speaker 1: a little bit banged up and not to your you know,
Speaker 1: not not your fault, but that's just how it was.
Speaker 1: So to be able to go in there, and then
Speaker 1: when that series, Katie comes back, gets hurt again, Clay
Speaker 1: tears his knee. At the end of the day, you
Speaker 1: guys end up winning. What was it like to be
Speaker 1: able to help bring the first championship to a country?
Speaker 1: You know, the fans up there in Toronto, they are crazy,
Speaker 1: crazy and and loyal. We got back to Toronto, I
Speaker 1: thought the parade in Cleveland was crazy. Man. It was
Speaker 1: three and a half million people in Toronto for that parade.
Speaker 1: It was that like you said, Matt, it was it
Speaker 1: was a country, not a state, not a city. The
Speaker 1: whole country was put on and it was That was
Speaker 1: a dope experience, man, to be part of that, to
Speaker 1: be part of just seeing where they came from, you know,
Speaker 1: the culture of how they built the franchise and and
Speaker 1: then losing so many years in the playoffs to us
Speaker 1: in Cleveland, that was a dope experience. Man. What was
Speaker 1: the energy like when Drake came around, No huge ambassador,
Speaker 1: big fans, that's right by the bench with that energy, like, man,
Speaker 1: you know Drake is one of them dudes. Man, he
Speaker 1: just he put he gonna put the battery in your
Speaker 1: pack man for us and you guys know you're on
Speaker 1: the sidelines. He he was an agitator too, as much
Speaker 1: as anything. He you know, that's why the NBA was
Speaker 1: giving him, giving him a hard times in time. He
Speaker 1: was an agitator to opposing teams and players and he
Speaker 1: talked big ship. You know, he wanted them dudes may
Speaker 1: he talked. He talked a lot. I think for the players, man,
Speaker 1: just they all fed off his energy because he was
Speaker 1: you know, that's his team, that's him, that's his city,
Speaker 1: that's his his love. Man. I think it was it
Speaker 1: was just a perfect storm, that's what it was. It
Speaker 1: was a perfect storm. And like you said Matt. The
Speaker 1: injuries to the Warriors were you know, it's unfortunately. I'm
Speaker 1: the type of dude if I'm always feel like you
Speaker 1: want to try to compete against the best and win
Speaker 1: against the best and play at the high level. But
Speaker 1: but injuries happened, and why everybody else was talking that
Speaker 1: and no, so listen, man, we still got to win
Speaker 1: these games. We have to win these games. Don't matter
Speaker 1: who's on the floor. You have to win the games.
Speaker 1: You've got a chance to work with great sweet we
Speaker 1: we've detailed, you know, a handful of them. Give me
Speaker 1: one word when we ask when we say these players names,
Speaker 1: that comes first thing that comes to mind Kobe and
Speaker 1: one word ship Momba, rest in peace, sight, Kyrie, Swiss Army,
Speaker 1: knife compartment, Swiss Army, Like just what this skill sets
Speaker 1: Swiss Army could do it all. Lebron man complete mm
Speaker 1: hm m hm complete as a picture of a complete
Speaker 1: player by far Morely, they call him the terminator dog
Speaker 1: like like that's that's real. That's like when I think
Speaker 1: of him, when you you you actually think of Kauai's movements,
Speaker 1: how are yeah? People think he's robotic, but that man
Speaker 1: like determinator for real, Like like he carries that, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna tell a story to me that's personified. We were
Speaker 1: down to all against Milwaukee, you know. Nick Nurse came
Speaker 1: into the locker room said, you know, we we're gonna
Speaker 1: make some adjustment. We'll get back to Toronto and and
Speaker 1: we're gonna be ready. And Kauai said, the adjustment is
Speaker 1: I'm guarding your honest we walked out the locker room.
Speaker 1: That's it right there. I remember that ship. Uh, what's
Speaker 1: something you learned from just being able to work those
Speaker 1: or guys out about yourself. I think they really respected
Speaker 1: my my work ethic, and for me that was something
Speaker 1: that I wasn't aware of, just my work ethic, and
Speaker 1: they really they respect just to work my work ethic
Speaker 1: more than anything. And for me, man, just it taught me,
Speaker 1: like I said, man validated. I've always wanted the validation
Speaker 1: of you know, just just knowing that the way I
Speaker 1: think the game and the right way, yeah, right, the
Speaker 1: way I try to help players. Just validate knowing that
Speaker 1: you're doing the right thing to see what I even think.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you realize, but that probably goes
Speaker 1: even back to your playing days because you said, right
Speaker 1: when you went to the Warriors, who took you under
Speaker 1: the arm, the two best players, Tim Hardaway, it's pretty
Speaker 1: well they don't have to do that, so they must
Speaker 1: tell you how hard he works, you know. I mean that.
Speaker 1: To be able to translate that into everything you're doing,
Speaker 1: I think that's dope. Um your return to the Lakers,
Speaker 1: How did that come about? And how's it been? Man?
Speaker 1: You know, it was hard to leave Toronto. Man, Toronto
Speaker 1: was you know again, And even with Kauai leaving, I was.
Speaker 1: I was locked in for three years. It was it
Speaker 1: was hard decision to leave. But I think that the
Speaker 1: the biggest thing for me was, like I said, I
Speaker 1: have an eight year old son who lives here in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles and being able to be close to him,
Speaker 1: that was that was the main, the main priority. And obviously,
Speaker 1: look the Lakers were We're putting together a championship caliber team.
Speaker 1: And when I left the Lakers the first time, you know,
Speaker 1: I walked out of the building saying I want to
Speaker 1: come back here one day and be a coach on
Speaker 1: the front of the bench and I want to win
Speaker 1: a championship here. I left saying that, and to be
Speaker 1: able to come back and have that come to fruition
Speaker 1: as in all things too. You know, again the championship
Speaker 1: caliber piece was a part of it, and do we
Speaker 1: have a team to compete coming back here? So it
Speaker 1: was again that was another thing that was kind of
Speaker 1: everything was was nicely wrapped, but my son was was
Speaker 1: the UH was the biggest, biggest part of that decision
Speaker 1: for me. So you returned to the Lakers um, like
Speaker 1: I said, obviously was a mess for all of us.
Speaker 1: We lose code at the beginning of what's the team's
Speaker 1: energy focused like and then the drive to actually winning
Speaker 1: it the year he passes. Yeah, at first it was tough, man,
Speaker 1: It was a tough That was a tough adjustment for
Speaker 1: the team because you know, you you get through that
Speaker 1: initial stages, you know, the first few days right, kind
Speaker 1: of get used to it. But every time we went
Speaker 1: on the road, teams did a Kobe tribute every that
Speaker 1: that season, So it was it was tough to kind
Speaker 1: of kind of put it behind you. But I think, um,
Speaker 1: once we got to the bubble, you kind of felt
Speaker 1: like everybody's uh motivation and then they pulled out their
Speaker 1: mama jerseys, They pulled out their Mama Jersey's dog. You
Speaker 1: saw just a whole different different for someone forever reason. Man,
Speaker 1: they they played at a different sense of urgency. But
Speaker 1: you kind of felt everybody was really really pulling, pulling
Speaker 1: in that direction, man, and trying to do something special.
Speaker 1: When you reflect on Kobe and his memory, what what
Speaker 1: stands out? Man? His realness? His realness? Man, he was
Speaker 1: he was misunderstood man. People. I asked him one time,
Speaker 1: Matt Like, I asked him, I said, why you're such
Speaker 1: an asshole? I asked him that. He said, you really
Speaker 1: want to know? You know how he was, And he
Speaker 1: said to me, said, Phil, Man, some of my teammates
Speaker 1: don't understand the work. He says, So I see dudes
Speaker 1: walk into practice ten minutes before practice and they leave
Speaker 1: right after. Why the fund am I gonna pass them
Speaker 1: to basketball? I don't respect the work ethic. I'm in
Speaker 1: here busting my ass every day trying to perfect my craft,
Speaker 1: and these dudes, these dudes don't want to work on
Speaker 1: the game. I don't trust him, So I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: pass on the basketball. I'm gonna ride them hard every day.
Speaker 1: Made perfect sense when he really broke it down as
Speaker 1: to why he is the way he is with certain dudes.
Speaker 1: I was just like, I respect that, bro, I respect that,
Speaker 1: but his realness in the sense of, you know, he
Speaker 1: told me. He was like, look, man, you have you
Speaker 1: have an ability to connect with people. Don't do not
Speaker 1: concern yourself with what people think about you. He told
Speaker 1: me that, man, and just and that sunk in. It
Speaker 1: sunk in. He said, look, you got to move the
Speaker 1: way you move to make sure you do your job,
Speaker 1: make sure you're professional, make sure you study the game,
Speaker 1: but don't be concerned with what people think about you.
Speaker 1: And that stuck with me ever since since I've been
Speaker 1: in this league. He was a pro that I laughed
Speaker 1: when you said the five forty five thing because I
Speaker 1: automatically knew five forty five in the morning because I
Speaker 1: just have to go out to Orange County and what TI,
Speaker 1: what are you wanting to meet you at the track?
Speaker 1: Like Nick, it's still dark. We're talking about we got run.
Speaker 1: We gotta run, and we gotta hit the gym. We
Speaker 1: hit the gym and lift so hard I felt like
Speaker 1: I couldn't lift my arms up. And then we gotta
Speaker 1: go shoot for like two hours at like the Worth
Speaker 1: experienced it. Matt I ran through you. You experienced people don't.
Speaker 1: People don't really understand like what that was about with him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he respected you. He sucked with you if they like
Speaker 1: he said, he would have me come out there, we
Speaker 1: go work out, then we go have breakfast and everything.
Speaker 1: And like I said, I know he didn't let too
Speaker 1: many people do that, you know what I mean, to
Speaker 1: be able to get that side of him was doping.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I asked him the same questions like
Speaker 1: why don't you ever show I didn't say be an assholes,
Speaker 1: Like why don't you show the world how dope you
Speaker 1: are and how you are with us? And he looked
Speaker 1: at me and he said, I can't let the motherfucker
Speaker 1: see that, you know what I mean. It was just
Speaker 1: like that constant always go because you know, you know,
Speaker 1: and a lot of Kobe as cool as funk. I
Speaker 1: was talking to him, he would talk back. We'd all
Speaker 1: talk and joke on each other, but you would if
Speaker 1: you didn't see that, you would never know he was
Speaker 1: probably similar to quiet. You would never know that. That's
Speaker 1: what kind of shift he's on. Man ultimate competitor. And
Speaker 1: I know you remember that day right practice when he
Speaker 1: was second unit when y'all was tearing Bro. He was pissed.
Speaker 1: They were beating up brakes off and talking to and
Speaker 1: it was like just one game. It was like one
Speaker 1: game that Co was like running back. It was the
Speaker 1: second game running back, and then it was the third game,
Speaker 1: and then finally CO said we did and practice. Man
Speaker 1: Cod flipped over tables. He was cussing everybody. Bro. It
Speaker 1: was he the whole thing you're supposed to were supposed
Speaker 1: to win the championship with, y'all start with this unit,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean just getting under the skin. He
Speaker 1: was pissed at practicing end first of all. And once
Speaker 1: we called it, I think it was flipping over tables,
Speaker 1: water containers. He was heated. That's funny. I ain't talked
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, I remember that day. It was funny.
Speaker 1: What was the NBA bubble and championship run? Like, man,
Speaker 1: that was one of the hardest things I've ever done.
Speaker 1: For a long other day. It was hard in the
Speaker 1: sense of, you know, just being away from your family
Speaker 1: comfort zone, just just different. You don't have your normal
Speaker 1: stuff during the season routines or players routines where everybody's
Speaker 1: routines were just throwing out the window. But I think
Speaker 1: the hardest part it was was U one, the no
Speaker 1: fans thing took. It took a while to get adjusted
Speaker 1: to that, because where you generate energy from things, you know.
Speaker 1: And so I'm gonna tell you, man, we had a
Speaker 1: crew like Dwight Howard, JaVale, McGee, j R. Smith, Rondo
Speaker 1: and them dudes on the bench. Bro. They used to
Speaker 1: they generated so much energy, like the energy that they
Speaker 1: brought Javelle and Dwight alone them Bro, they were like
Speaker 1: teens screaming fall out. So the challenge was, you know,
Speaker 1: just just being there. And but again we had a
Speaker 1: special group, you know, we had a bunch of dudes
Speaker 1: that felt like that stuff to prove. Rondo, the White
Speaker 1: you know, Broun, you know, even a d like our
Speaker 1: whole team, you know guys, we felt like they had
Speaker 1: stuff to prove. And so the mindset of them dudes, man,
Speaker 1: we're here for one reason, we are here for one reason,
Speaker 1: and wants to layoffs started. Man. They just they automatically
Speaker 1: clicked into that. Them dudes, when I say, they were
Speaker 1: as bought in and as much involved in our coaches
Speaker 1: meetings as we were. Like Rondo used to be in
Speaker 1: our meetings, like just like like for real, man, they
Speaker 1: were brought into trying to win um and it was
Speaker 1: it was really just generating the energy. And then again,
Speaker 1: you know, once you get into that part of it
Speaker 1: just I think it was some some ways it was
Speaker 1: easier because you didn't have a lot of distractions, but
Speaker 1: you know, on the flip side of that, again, you
Speaker 1: didn't have your family. Your comfort zone was gone, so
Speaker 1: we just we had to find ways. Man, through that
Speaker 1: four months, it just really a long time, a long
Speaker 1: time to be on the resort. No, look, the NBA
Speaker 1: on the flip side of the NBA did a They
Speaker 1: did a fantastic job. You know, people don't really talk
Speaker 1: about what they did to make that place as comfortable
Speaker 1: as possible. They had. We had everything we needed in there.
Speaker 1: I mean they had movie theaters, you have restaurants, you
Speaker 1: you can go fishing, you go golfing, but you you
Speaker 1: had everything you needed. But it was just one of
Speaker 1: those things where if you were not locked into being
Speaker 1: in the bubble to to really try to compete and win,
Speaker 1: if you win in the bubble with him and I
Speaker 1: don't want to be here, You're gonna You're gonna be
Speaker 1: home soon you were done right, and so we had
Speaker 1: we had it. I always said, man, whoever, whenever team
Speaker 1: comes into the bubble with the strongest mental fortitude, it's
Speaker 1: gonna win. You're big on mental. You're big on mental,
Speaker 1: especially at this level. I mean, because I don't think
Speaker 1: people understand how important mental aspect of the game is.
Speaker 1: I'd say nine of the game is mental at this level,
Speaker 1: especially when you get into the playoffs. Right, you get
Speaker 1: into the playoffs, you lose a game that you're not
Speaker 1: supposed to lose, your mentals has gotta be You gotta
Speaker 1: be right to wherever you can. You can you can
Speaker 1: readjust and bounce back quickly. You spoke on Rhando being
Speaker 1: in the coaches meeting, How instrumental was he coming back
Speaker 1: because he wasn't gonna come back. I don't instrumental was
Speaker 1: he coming back in the playoffs in the bubble and
Speaker 1: obviously helping you guys win? Yeah, we didn't win. We
Speaker 1: don't win that trip with a Rondo. And you ask
Speaker 1: anybody on that team, coaches, players, front office, man. Rondo's
Speaker 1: probably one of the smartest i Q basketball players that
Speaker 1: ever lays up shoes. He shot the lights out to listen,
Speaker 1: and people people give him flat for that. Rondod can shoot.
Speaker 1: He just don't you know. His gravitation is to do
Speaker 1: what he does right, play, make involve other people. Man,
Speaker 1: that man is a maestro straight up. He is a
Speaker 1: basketball savant in his sense of his dissection. You know,
Speaker 1: Rondo argue with you. I got many arguments Rondo, you know,
Speaker 1: because he his thing was like I studied this ship
Speaker 1: and I'm black man, so do I you know, our
Speaker 1: whole coaches staff, you know. But but but that's you want.
Speaker 1: That's what you want, man, you know, as a as
Speaker 1: a as a coach and organization and and just you
Speaker 1: can win with dudes like that. Doc said he used
Speaker 1: to have to give him as a play card before
Speaker 1: the game. He said, Ron to be looking at the
Speaker 1: play card calling Ship before I even call Rondo. You
Speaker 1: try to put some that's saying teacher team. Ronda already
Speaker 1: on five or six different counters. What the other dudes
Speaker 1: is still trying to figure out the basic part of
Speaker 1: the play. But he's a he's a different breed man.
Speaker 1: It how special talent the unicorn, Yeah, unicorn, that's what
Speaker 1: I said about I called him. Tim Duan on Rod man,
Speaker 1: stack you, I don't even think A D is special. Man.
Speaker 1: He could do it seven ft trouble pass, shoot, post up, handle. Man,
Speaker 1: he's special. And I don't even think A D realizes
Speaker 1: how special. And what I think great part about that
Speaker 1: about him is he's such a good dude. Yeah, good
Speaker 1: good dude, got a great family. But I think A
Speaker 1: D has an opportunity to He's an NBA, He's an
Speaker 1: m v P caliber player. And I'm talking about the
Speaker 1: way he can he can really dominate the game on
Speaker 1: both ends, Like he cleans up a lot of stuff,
Speaker 1: UF man, and he's just special talent. Man. They call us,
Speaker 1: you know, they call him the unicorn. The second time
Speaker 1: around with Lebron, Um, how special has been being able
Speaker 1: to work with him and win championships with him? Man,
Speaker 1: that's been, Um, that's been just like for me, a
Speaker 1: great Like I said, I've always had the mindset of
Speaker 1: learning from players. Um, you know, as much as we
Speaker 1: as coaches try to try to help, And I've learned
Speaker 1: so much from bron just from commitment, Like his work
Speaker 1: ethic is insane. The way he takes care of his
Speaker 1: body is unbelievable. That man is literally in the weight
Speaker 1: room three hundred sixt or five days. He might take
Speaker 1: time off the court, but he is doing something to
Speaker 1: his body every day to keep himself and he's just Uh.
Speaker 1: I think the misconception is that again that he's you know,
Speaker 1: he's a coach, he's a gm man, he's coachable a right.
Speaker 1: He wants to be coached, you know, he want to
Speaker 1: be He want to be challenged in that way, and
Speaker 1: I respect that that part of it is because he's
Speaker 1: never shied away from being uncomfortable in terms of trying
Speaker 1: to trying to reinvent himself and continue to stretch his
Speaker 1: game beyond what people think he can do. But he's um,
Speaker 1: he's just a coachable dude, which is to me the
Speaker 1: most important piece, you know, because even as coaches, he
Speaker 1: looks us in the eye, even you know, a coach,
Speaker 1: whatever you need, whatever you want to coach. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, he also knows what he wants and
Speaker 1: he knows that the ingredient for him to be successful,
Speaker 1: what he needs around him to be able to compete
Speaker 1: and compete for championships. So that's rare to right, understanding
Speaker 1: what you what you need around you, what kind of
Speaker 1: team you need, and then being able to being able
Speaker 1: to execute on it. Being around him a lot. Obviously
Speaker 1: banged up a little bit this year seeing the kind
Speaker 1: of work he puts in. How many more years you
Speaker 1: feel like he has under his belt until he doesn't
Speaker 1: want to play. That's how man, Until he doesn't want
Speaker 1: to play. I'll be looking at this dude like, bro,
Speaker 1: when you're gonna slow down until you don't want to play?
Speaker 1: And that's you know, that's testament. That's what he does
Speaker 1: with his body, man, how he takes care of himself.
Speaker 1: Talk to us about business that you've been able to
Speaker 1: create outside of basketball. I know you're working. You have
Speaker 1: an app that's that's up and run and talks to
Speaker 1: us little bit out the business side outside of basketball. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think, um, you know, I think the platform that
Speaker 1: that we all have this industry is sometimes it's not
Speaker 1: used properly right, And so I've always had this passion
Speaker 1: of of what do I want to do with the
Speaker 1: game of basketball and be able to just share knowledge.
Speaker 1: I use that phrase all the time, really taken what
Speaker 1: God has blessed me with and try to help the game.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of bad trainers out there. It's a
Speaker 1: lot of it's a lot of bs out there with
Speaker 1: training and in the whole basketball world. So I created
Speaker 1: the app. You know, I've had a lot of coaches
Speaker 1: and trainers reach out to me over the years about
Speaker 1: my philosophy and what have I done, and so the
Speaker 1: app is the place that I was like, man, let me,
Speaker 1: let me put this together and make it because I
Speaker 1: can't be everywhere, I can't do as much. But the
Speaker 1: app is a global thing, you know. Game app is
Speaker 1: that's my passion project, that's my lifelong work right there
Speaker 1: of being able to take you know, this whole system
Speaker 1: and formula that I've tried to create for training and
Speaker 1: put it in one place where kids, coaches, trainers, players,
Speaker 1: everybody can have access to it to help. Again, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that my way is the only way
Speaker 1: to teach, but this is what made me success. This
Speaker 1: is what made me successful, and so that's what the
Speaker 1: app has been about for me. What it's called game app?
Speaker 1: Where where can they get it? There? You can get
Speaker 1: on all platforms, and you know it's real when you
Speaker 1: can get that ship anywhere all platforms. Man, We're just
Speaker 1: trying to make it as available to people and as
Speaker 1: feasible to people to Again, if you really want to
Speaker 1: figure out some detailed training, you know that app is
Speaker 1: a It's a great tool. And I'm not just saying
Speaker 1: it because my app. We put a lot of work
Speaker 1: into it to make it very easy for people to use.
Speaker 1: Congratulations on that. Appreciate that advice to young coaches trying
Speaker 1: to break in this trainings and development of guys. There
Speaker 1: is no there is no blueprint, There is no there
Speaker 1: is no everybody asked what's the path? There is no path.
Speaker 1: Everybody's journey is different. Mine is different than any other,
Speaker 1: you know, any and everybody's journey is different. And I
Speaker 1: always tell the coaches that it's not instant. You know
Speaker 1: a lot of people think you come in or you
Speaker 1: you have an opportunity to coach in the NBA, and
Speaker 1: it's just it's instant, oh man. I mean some guys
Speaker 1: start out being video coordinators, some guys start out being interns. Right,
Speaker 1: and even when you get the opportunity to be in
Speaker 1: my own experiences, is I locked into my job? I
Speaker 1: wasn't looking at being a bench coach. I wasn't looking
Speaker 1: at being a second assistant. Mike Brown, what's my response? Abilities.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm locked into that. Let me let me
Speaker 1: kill that role. I think coaches have the same responsibility
Speaker 1: as players. We all have a role as a coach.
Speaker 1: Let me stay in my lane and do my role.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, people come into the league,
Speaker 1: or they try to get in and say, in five years,
Speaker 1: I want to be this. Five years, I want to
Speaker 1: be that. Well, what if that's not the plan. What
Speaker 1: if it's not meant for you to be that in
Speaker 1: five years. So how about you just whatever your job is,
Speaker 1: lock into that and be the best that you can
Speaker 1: be at that part of your job. And then organically,
Speaker 1: what happened, It's gonna happen wherever, wherever it's meant for
Speaker 1: you to go. So I'm always telling coaches about you know,
Speaker 1: just understanding. You know, your journey is different, and my
Speaker 1: journey was thirteen years. It's a grind, it's a real grind,
Speaker 1: and it's not a glamorous it's not a glamorous job.
Speaker 1: It's it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work.
Speaker 1: And being okay with understanding that may not happen when
Speaker 1: you wanted to happen. Quick hitters. First thing to come
Speaker 1: to mind home stretch right here. Top five musical artists.
Speaker 1: Oh J cole Man, Jay Cosey, I'm different man. I
Speaker 1: like Jay cole I always fool with jay Z. I'm
Speaker 1: a nas guy. Um, I'm a fool with Drizzy And
Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw you all off with this one. I
Speaker 1: like St. John. I fool with St. John. Okay J
Speaker 1: fool St John Man. Five more skilled players you've ever seen?
Speaker 1: Five more skilled Kyrie, Oh Kobe, mm hmmm, Kimla, Juan,
Speaker 1: Steve Nash. I might to put Brown in there, and
Speaker 1: that's not in any particular order. That's nice. Five that's
Speaker 1: not in particular order. U plus four going to play
Speaker 1: pick up basketball at Oakland at Oakland's Minas Park. Who
Speaker 1: are you taking? I'm taking g p J Kid, Greg Foster,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take hook Mitchell. Boy are a legend. If
Speaker 1: you could go back to one night in your career,
Speaker 1: what would it be and why? As a player period player?
Speaker 1: Coach Man Game seven in the Oracle when we were
Speaker 1: down three one. Um, I had just my family sitting
Speaker 1: in the stands, being a boy from born and raised
Speaker 1: from Oakland, being in that environment when it when it
Speaker 1: was over, and that was probably the most emotional period
Speaker 1: of my life for just for a lot of reasons.
Speaker 1: You know, my parents were no longer alive, but just
Speaker 1: going through what I had been through to be able
Speaker 1: to be in that position as a coach. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's probably that's the pinnacle of my career right there
Speaker 1: that night. M M. Most influential basketball figure in your
Speaker 1: life My brother unheard of Ceel Handy Jr. Uh He
Speaker 1: was my closest brother. Taught me how to play. He
Speaker 1: really took me under his wing when I was a
Speaker 1: little kid, and he would just beat the ship out
Speaker 1: of me. Man. My my goal, my number one goal
Speaker 1: was to beat him one on one and I don't
Speaker 1: ever think I don't think I ever did that drove me,
Speaker 1: but he but he inspired me to to really take
Speaker 1: the game of basketball, try to do something with it.
Speaker 1: Ask questions, who do you want to see on all
Speaker 1: the Smoke? And yeah, you have to help us with
Speaker 1: your answer. You have to help get us you answer
Speaker 1: on the show. Had a couple of guys in your
Speaker 1: team that haven't been on the show. Yeah, throwing that
Speaker 1: ship out there. Oh man, man boy, all the smoke,
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you're trying to get Brown on here.
Speaker 1: I know you know you're trying to get a D
Speaker 1: on guys. Um, I wouldn't mind seeing Kyrie on here though.
Speaker 1: We're working on it. Yes, sir, Well Phil Handy Man,
Speaker 1: we appreciate you, man Love, I appreciate your brothers Man,
Speaker 1: appreciate all the smoke. Special guest Feel Handy World champion,
Speaker 1: three time world champion. You've catching some Showtime Basketball YouTube
Speaker 1: and the I Heeart platform Black Effects, and he opened
Speaker 1: if you need to put something in your bag? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you might have to get on the waiting list. You
Speaker 1: got something to put in your bag. Let's see you
Speaker 1: all next week. This is All a Smoke, a production
Speaker 1: of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership
Speaker 1: with Showtime