1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class A production 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Frye. We spent the whole week talking 4 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: about Horace Walpole. We sure did I have had I've 5 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: had him on the list for a long time for 6 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 1: a possible October episode, And it was one of those 7 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: things that where I had kind of written him on 8 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: the list but not really looked much into what it 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: would actually involve, because, as I said in the episode, 10 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: I read the Castle of a Toronto in college in 11 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: a class that I took that was called Discourses in Terror. 12 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: That was it was an elective literature class specifically about 13 00:00:55,240 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: Gothic novels. So we read Castle of Toronto, Mister Duvi, Dolfo, Frankensteinula. 14 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: We kept getting each It was in a chronological thing, 15 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: so we kept getting like later and later re envisionings 16 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: of Gothic literature. We ended on A Clockwork Orange. We 17 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: were supposed to watch the film A Clockwork Orange, with 18 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: our professor saying, if you're not comfortable watching this movie, 19 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 1: you do not have to. You will not be penalized. 20 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: But something happened and we weren't able to watch it, 21 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: and I don't remember what that was. I'm laughing as 22 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: you say this, not laughing at what you're saying, but 23 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: just to the fact that, like, you remember so much 24 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: more vividly your college experience than I do. I could 25 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: not tell you the name of a single course I took. Yeah, wait, 26 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: one maybe, Okay, So I would say I remember more 27 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: specifics of this one elective class than almost anything else 28 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: that I took as a course in literature, largely because 29 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: it was a lot of them were novels that would 30 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: not necessarily have been taken as seriously as literature. At 31 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: the same time, my professor, who I have learned in 32 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: doing the research for this, his name was doctor ed Katz. 33 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: He passed away a couple of years ago. He did 34 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: have strong opinions about what counted as literature and what didn't. 35 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: From my memory, but like, I don't remember being all 36 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,119 Speaker 1: that interested by The Castle of a Toronto. I thought 37 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: about giving it a reread while working on this, and 38 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: I didn't because I just did not have time to 39 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: do that, and so I had not really I had 40 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: been like, okay, first gothic novel, cool thing to talk 41 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: about in our you know, October episodes around Halloween, but 42 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: I had did not really know anything about Horace Walpole. 43 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: We didn't talk much about him as a person at all. 44 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: And this year when I was like, let's go check 45 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: out Horace Walpole again, I immediately was captivated and was 46 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: like absolutely, I'm not only am I going to do 47 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: an episode on this, I'm ninety percent sure it's going 48 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: to be two parts. I found a lot of stuff 49 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,839 Speaker 1: about his life really delightful. Not everything, but a lot 50 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: of stuff. I mentioned in the show that I had 51 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: wanted to talk more about the gardening booklet but could 52 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: not for reasons that I would talk about today, and 53 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: that reason is that as I was working on these episodes, 54 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: the website archive dot org was hit with a DDoS attack. YEP, 55 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: I had the same problem. And I'm going to talk 56 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: about archive dot org for a minute. And if you're 57 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: having very strong feelings right now, and the feelings are 58 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: not in support of archive dot org, I want you 59 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: to just hang in there for a second, because I 60 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: think a lot of people have an idea in their 61 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: head of archive dot org that does not actually align 62 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: with what is happening. So archive dot org is home 63 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: to a ton of public domain work that is a 64 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: big part of my research on this show a lot 65 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: of the time. It is also home to the Wayback Machine, 66 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: which is like a chronicle of what websites used to 67 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: look like at points in the past, and sometimes that 68 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: is part of the research too, because there will be 69 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: something that used to be on a website that's not 70 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: there anymore and I can only find it at the 71 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: Wayback Machine. There are also books that are still protected 72 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: by copyright, and the way this works is that either 73 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: archive dot org or one of its other physical library 74 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: partners has a physical copy of the book. They have 75 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: made a scan of that book, and people can check 76 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: out the scan of the book, with the number of 77 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: people who can check it out at the same time 78 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: lining up with how many physical copies of the book 79 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: Archive dot org actually has access to. At the beginning 80 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: of the COVID nineteen pandemic, they temporarily waived that limit 81 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: because it was an international emergency where people were suddenly 82 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: forced to stay home locked out of their research materials. 83 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: They were like, Okay, this is a crisis. Everybody can 84 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: get whatever books they need. And some people absolutely freaked 85 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: out about it, and there was a big dog piling 86 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: of people who sort of took the idea of archive 87 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: dot org is pirrating the entire planet and made it 88 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: a talking point, and people kind of glommed onto that 89 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: talking point without actually looking deeper into it. It fed 90 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: into a lawsuit by publishers who were angry that archive 91 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: dot org had like scanned their work that period of 92 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: releasing all of the limits on how many people could 93 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: have a book at the same time. That only lasted 94 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: for like twelve weeks. Archive dot org rolled that back 95 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: and for a year more like years. Since then, it 96 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: has been if archive dot org has one copy of 97 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: a book, one person can look at the digital out 98 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: of time. There is for sure a whole legal argument 99 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: to be made about whether that is acceptable in terms 100 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: of copyright law. But there's a perception that archive dot 101 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: org is just like freely scanning and the throwing people's 102 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: books into a giant website that anybody can access freely 103 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: at all times with their restrictions, and that's like, that's 104 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: really not what's happening. So yeah, doos attack on archive 105 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: dot org. While I was working on this, I fortunately 106 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: had already done most of the research and the reading 107 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: on things that involved public domain biographies of Horace Walpole, 108 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: a lot of his written work also at archive dot org. 109 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: I had already gotten a lot of that. Something I 110 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: had not gotten yet that I had bookmarked was the 111 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: Gardening Essay, and I had not had a chance to 112 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: look at it yet. It's possible that some other digital 113 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: resource also has the Gardening Essay, but I could not 114 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,679 Speaker 1: find it in time to like get this episode done. 115 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to get into the details of like 116 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: what prompted this attack on archive dot org, like what 117 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: prompted somebody to carry out this DDoS attack, because honestly, 118 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: I have heard multiple contradictory explanations about it, and I 119 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: don't know which one is correct. And also, uh, we 120 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: are recording this on the eleventh, the eleventh of October, 121 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: and this episode of the show is not going to 122 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: come out until the twenty fifth, which is in two weeks, 123 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: and so who knows what we will know about this 124 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: DDoS attack by that point. Whatever we would be saying 125 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: now will probably be very old news. Anyway, archive dot 126 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: org has been so important to my work on this show. Yeah, 127 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: ninety percent of what I get there is scans of 128 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: public domain stuff, the other ten percent overwhelmingly is some 129 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: incredibly obscure still protected by copyright, but also out of 130 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: print book which I cannot find at any other library, 131 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: with those including two different public library systems, the Boston Athenaeum, 132 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: which I am a member of and is a private library, 133 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: and Harvard, which I have access to, and I'm like, 134 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: sometimes archive dot org is a place that has a 135 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: book that's not in any of those collections. Anyway, I 136 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: have very strong feelings about archive dot org. I think 137 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: it is a critical and important service, and I wish 138 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: that one thing that was done in a time of 139 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: international crisis of the early pandemic had not then become 140 00:08:50,400 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: a weird talking point of misinformation. Yeah, do you want 141 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: to talk more about Horace Walpole? Let's do talk more 142 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: about Horace Walpole. He fascinates me. I yeah, yeah, because 143 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: he is not specifically his travels with Thomas Gray, Because 144 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: Horace Walpole is not the person, based on everything we 145 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: know up to that point, that I would think would 146 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: be a party boy. But he was like, he was like, Yeah, 147 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: let's go to balls, let's go dance and hang out 148 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: all the time, which sounds super fun to me. But 149 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 1: noney does not sound like your jam. It would be 150 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: like I would there would be an amount of it 151 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: that would be fun to me. But we were having 152 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: an off off Mike conversation in which we talked about 153 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: how like if you and I were traveling together for 154 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: an extended period of time, you would be the walpole 155 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: and I would be the gray. Yeah, for sure. And 156 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: to be clear, we've traveled together plenty and it's been fine, 157 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: but it has not been like just the two of us, 158 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: not just the two of us for two years and 159 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: right in France and Italy, Right, sounds great, Let's go 160 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: on towo year time tour of France in Italy. That 161 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: would be very fun. But yeah, like when we do 162 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: travel together, there are also for sure times that like 163 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: I go out to the hotel room and you're you're 164 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: at a SEEKI bar for however many hours. When we 165 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: do our trips to the show our international trips that 166 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: we've done, there is typically a separation that happens at 167 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: the end of the night, like after dinner, where half 168 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: of the group is like, let's go find every speakeasy 169 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: I'm in that group, and the other half is like, 170 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: let's go find cozy bedtime, and I'm like, cozy bedtime, 171 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: I will lead the procession back to the hotel. Yes, yeah, 172 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: which happens, which made me chuckle a little bit because 173 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: just because Walpole was not the one I would have 174 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: expected to be late. Right woo, I'm going to another ball, 175 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: let's go party. Yeah. It makes me laugh a little bit, 176 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: especially given his later discussions of how he has always 177 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 1: practiced like temperance and it didn't help with his gout 178 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: and I'm like, you are a can an outgoing person. 179 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: I do get the vibe that he got kind of 180 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: older and crankier and in the later years of his life, 181 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: was like I just kind of want to be at 182 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: my castle. Yeah, all that castle. Yeah, it's been so 183 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: I meant to put this in the episode and I forgot. 184 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: I actually deleted it, and then as we were recording, 185 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: I was like, I should say that thing, and then 186 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: I forgot to do it. So after he had died 187 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 1: and he had left the he had left Strawberry Hill 188 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 1: in his will, it sort of got passed through families. 189 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: It I don't there's a middle part wheun like what 190 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: happened there I don't remember. But now it is a 191 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: place that you can tour as a member of the public. 192 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: It is Strawberry Hill House and Garden. It is Strawberry 193 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: Hill House and Gardens. The contents of it were eventually 194 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: sold off, so it has gone through a restoration, and 195 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: there have also been efforts to like get some of 196 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: the original items that were there, but also replicas and 197 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: reproductions and stuff like that, so that at some point 198 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: in the future a visitor might be able to get 199 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: a sense of like just how packed it was with 200 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: Horace Wallpole's many collections of art and other stuff. Yeah, 201 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,079 Speaker 1: there is a thing that happens at Strawberry Hill House 202 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: and Garden that I have never been able to line 203 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: up with my schedule that I am aching to do. 204 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,839 Speaker 1: Do you know they do a Halloween event there. It 205 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 1: does not surprise me. I'd be into that, and then 206 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: to go to bed at respectable hour. They close all 207 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 1: of the shutters and they do this sort of like 208 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: gloomy presentation, and I really want to go there, and 209 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: I never managed to make it work timing wise. That 210 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: sounds very fun. If I had been smart this year, 211 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: I would have scheduled London right before we go to Iceland. 212 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but I wasn't smart and now it is 213 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: too late to make this all work. Well it's fine, 214 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: but yeah they do. They do a lot of fun 215 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: stuff and I ache to do it one day. Yeah, 216 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: there was also a thing that came up. I will 217 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: spoiler alert people a little. The Walpoles are coming up 218 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: again in our Halloween contents as one of part of 219 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: another thing and not horror specifically, But there is an 220 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: early thing where we were talking about children numbers of children, 221 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: and they're possibly being like another child that may have 222 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: passed in, you know, as a very young young child, 223 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: and like, this is a problem with this family, is 224 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: what I can tell you, because they're in this this 225 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: piece that comes up a little later this month, there 226 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 1: is a discussion of one person who marries a Wallpole 227 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: and him having had X number of children with his 228 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: first wife and then a y number with his second wife. 229 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: And the X and y are variables using algebraic variables 230 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: for a reason, because they are numbered very differently depending 231 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: on what even like sources that seem very official, and 232 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: I think probably some of that is that many of 233 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: the kids died very early on, but they're not documented 234 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: quite in that way, so right, right, Yeah, I had found, 235 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: you know, some biography that I had read was like 236 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: two children had been born in that span, But then 237 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: I couldn't find anybody else saying the same thing. And 238 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: then when I would look at lists of all the children, 239 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: there were not any children or infants who were like 240 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: listed as having died, and I was like, I'm really 241 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: not sure on this. There were a few random things 242 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: that were that came up in the notes that I 243 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: did not have a great place to put into the 244 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: the episodes. One is that one of the things that 245 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: I read was a brief biography he had written of himself, 246 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: in which he said, quote, I was inoculated for the 247 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: smallpox in seventeen twenty four. I like that he was 248 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: both inoculated for the smallpox, and that he thought that 249 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: was an important thing to put in the fact that, 250 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: like his little biography that he had written up. The 251 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: next was a thing that was actually written by Dorothy 252 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: Margaret Stewart. As we said, I found her descriptions of 253 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: him sometimes sound like she really admired him, and other 254 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: times to sound very judgy. But she was talking of 255 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: the trip to France and Italy and wrote, quote, it 256 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: was not long before Walpole became conscious that the amount 257 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: of French he had acquired at Eton was inadequate, and 258 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: that caused me to laugh a lot. Horace Walpole apparently 259 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: coined the word serendipity in a letter to Horace Mann 260 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: and described what saren nipity meant in this letter. And 261 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: then the last thing was, I don't want to throw 262 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: whoever wrote this under the bus, but I've found one 263 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: brief article about Walpole that it framed him as a 264 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: plagiarist because in a number of his letters he makes 265 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: reference to some work of literature. It is set off 266 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: in the letter as though it's a quote, but he 267 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: doesn't say who the author of it was. Oh, gotcha. 268 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: And I was like, this is a deeply normal thing 269 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: to me for an eighteenth century writer to do. Like 270 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people were throwing in quotes and literary 271 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: references and whatever to their and their letters to each 272 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: other and their other written work without saying specifically who 273 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: the author of that piece was. There's kind of an 274 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: implied assumption that the person receiving the letter h writing, 275 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: they're well read enough, they're gonna know what the reference is. 276 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: And so when I was like, what is this, what 277 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: is this thing that was like and he was also 278 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: a plagiarist. I was like, I don't think that's the 279 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: definition of plagiarism that was existing in the seventeen whatevers. Yeah, 280 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: when he was writing this stuff well, and also usually 281 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: plagiarism is not referencing it as a quote either, right right, 282 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: it would be it would be stylized in a way 283 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: that was clearly meant to suggest like this is someone 284 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: else's words, just to like say whose words it was. Anyway, 285 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 1: as I said, I love him in a lot of ways. 286 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: I love the idea. I mean, I know this is 287 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: an interpretation of his life, but I love the idea 288 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: that he was like, I'm going to put so much 289 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 1: time and effort into making this eccentric castle that nobody's 290 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: going to notice if I bring all my gay friends 291 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: over and have a big gay party. Yah. I love 292 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: everything about the castle concept. Obviously we've talked on the 293 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: show before that I am a kooky house, so I 294 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: love the idea that he just went full boar on 295 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: the kookie house concept. I love the idea of his 296 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: housekeeper having to give people tours like all right, here's okay, 297 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: here's the hall, and in my head, it's like a 298 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: very jaded I think a lot of the biggest states. 299 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: You could go to the housekeeper and say I would 300 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 1: like a tour, but like not necessarily with somebody intending 301 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 1: for it to be a stop for tourists and writing 302 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 1: a guide for it. In writing in my head, it's 303 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: a little bit of ras from Monster sinc. Here we 304 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: have the collection of Swoods, Like, I just know that 305 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't be what it was, but in the cartoon it 306 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: runs in my head. The other thing that I wanted 307 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: to talk about with Walpole is that initial printing of 308 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: a Toronto Oh yeah, because he's kind of the original 309 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: Blair Witch situation. I had that exact thought honestly, which 310 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: I love. I'm like, he's actually kind of This becomes 311 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 1: one of those questions for me of is he the 312 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: influence or was he just the first to think of it? 313 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: Which aren't the same thing? Right? Yeah, what if we 314 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: just throw this out as though it's a real thing, 315 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: see what people do? Yeah? I love that stuff. Yeah, 316 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: I super have no idea if there was an earlier 317 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: example of that in English language literature specifically, but yeah, yeah, 318 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: and then I kind of wondered if if Chatterton was 319 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 1: trying to do the same thing in this manuscript that 320 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: he sens well, huh, And I really don't know that 321 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: for sure. I intended this morning to go and actually 322 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: read all of their letters to each other, and I 323 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 1: did not get it done because I had only read 324 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: sort of a summary of their correspondence. But like, it 325 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: did sort of seem to me like maybe that was 326 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: what he was trying to do with this. Yeah. It 327 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: made me think a little bit too of when we 328 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: covered Bram Stoker and his kind of very emotionally raw 329 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: fan letter to Walt Whitman, and I was like, oh, 330 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: is this a similar thing where yeah, where Walpole was like, ooh, 331 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: you're coming in a little too hot. I'm not sure 332 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 1: I trust your intentions here. It's very fascinating. Yeah. Anyway, 333 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: I'm so glad that I finally got to Horace Walpole. 334 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: Me too. I should not have put it off for 335 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: as long as I did. If you would like to 336 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: send us a note about this, We're at History Podcast 337 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: at iHeartRadio dot com. Whatever's happening this weekend for you. 338 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: I really hope that it's great. We will have a 339 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: Saturday Classic tomorrow. We will have a brand new episode 340 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: on Monday. Stuff You Missed in History Class is a 341 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcast from iHeartRadio, visit the 342 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,239 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 343 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: favorite shows.