1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Frye and 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 2: Wilton. We talked about. 5 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: This Takanovite movement this week, Yes, but we also were 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: going to talk about Succession, Yes, which makes me happy 7 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: to talk about because that show is stressful but very enjoyable. 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: And I will tell you how I started watching it. 9 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 2: I've watched none of it. 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: This is one of those shows that I started watching 11 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: on a flight on my way out to California, Okay, 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: And I came to it very late, like pretty recently, 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: like in end of twenty twenty three, so I got 14 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: to mainline the. 15 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 2: Whole thing, which is kind of nice. 16 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: But I watched two episodes on my way out there 17 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: because I didn't start it right away, and like, I 18 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: was obsessed the whole time we were in California. I 19 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: wouldn't stop talking about it, and I was almost excited 20 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: for a really good trip that I was having to 21 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: end so I could get back on a plane and. 22 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: Watch more episodes. That's how good it was. 23 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: And it's been great, and it had one of the 24 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: best final seasons of a show ever, like just satisfying 25 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: and delicious and painful and good, and I'm delighted it's 26 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 1: getting so many awards. 27 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have watched none of it. 28 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: As I just said, we have an accidental theme for 29 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: the week of TV inspired episodes that Tracy's watched none of. 30 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 1: I will say this, I don't know if you will 31 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: like it or not for a very specific reason. 32 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 2: Is that reason? Throw up? 33 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 3: No? 34 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm trying to think if there's ever any throw No, 35 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: but I will. I don't want to out you, so 36 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: stop me if you're like, don't, but I think you've 37 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: been pretty public. You don't like The Office, Yeah, because 38 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: like the embarrassment comedy in an office setting, which we 39 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: have all lived through, it's just uncomfortable. I have a 40 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: hard time with any TV show where part of the 41 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: setup is people at work having a bad and often 42 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: cringey time because of their terrible bosses. So imagine that 43 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: The Office is a really spectacularly written drama. 44 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 2: I don't know that you enjoy it. I think it 45 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 2: will stressed me out. 46 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: I think it might there are things in it that 47 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: you and I having worked for in a variety of 48 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: large corporations. Yeah, I mean I white knuckled some moments 49 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, where I'm like, oh, I have been 50 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: there when like a boss wagh up the chain makes 51 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: a decision that they think is great and everyone under 52 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: them has to figure out how to execute it in 53 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: a and it's often painful and none of those people's 54 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: needs are ever considered. And there is a lot of 55 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: that on this show. Well, there are shows that are 56 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: set in workplaces and those workplaces have dysfunctions, but the 57 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: episodes often end with like a resolution. Nope, okay, So 58 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: just I'm just going to give an example. So I know, 59 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: people when we discuss things like this, people are often 60 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: compelled to write in with opinions, and so I'm just 61 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: going to give an example of some shows I have 62 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: liked that are also about dysfunctional workplaces. 63 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 2: Superstore. 64 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: I really enjoy fun Fun, so fun, you know, and 65 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: there's times in that show when like managers or bosses 66 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: are just making bad decisions, but you know, often there's 67 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: a resolution. Better Off Ted similarly the workplace and Better 68 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: Off Ted very dysfunctional, but the episodes felt sort of 69 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: resolved and kind of optimistic in some ways, sometimes in 70 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: a way that I found better when we you know, 71 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: our show is part of a company that's been through 72 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: just a whole series of acquisitions and mergers and spinoffs 73 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: and whatever. And during one of those I was promoted 74 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: into management and was given management training, and there were 75 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: scenes from the office that were used as like the 76 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: conversation starter for sort of how not. And I was like, 77 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: this is why I can't watch this show, Like I 78 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: just I want to fix those people's workplace so it's 79 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: not doing this to them anymore. Yeah, I mean, I 80 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: will say, you don't see a lot of like the 81 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: lower level employees on succession. You're seeing like the family 82 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: that runs this business, and they're messed up inner relations 83 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,119 Speaker 1: and how they are all jockeying for power show, which 84 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: to me just leaves like the grossest taste in my mouth, 85 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: Like I don't have whatever ambition that is to run 86 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: any Like I don't. But it's very compelling and all 87 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: of the acting is spectacular, like there is no weak 88 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: link in that chain. And it's kind of interesting because 89 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: you get well, you start to get a little invested 90 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: in certain characters, thinking like, oh, this is the one 91 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: who has a little bit of a conscience and if 92 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: they can just nurture that seed and grow a tree 93 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: of actual good judgment and competanto that tree doesn't it 94 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: gets no, not gonna discount, so don't don't get attached an. 95 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: But it is spectacular television and I love it. So 96 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: that is yeah, why it inspired this to kud of 97 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: my Movement episode. But I also have such feelings about 98 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: this moment because, like I said at the end of 99 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: the episode, I have a weird I feel really bad 100 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: for Alexis ta Khanov in the midst of all of it. Yes, 101 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,679 Speaker 1: I do not feel good about him selecting a fourteen 102 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: year old as his bride y so gross, But I 103 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: do think, like I said, he was a guy who 104 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: did not have a lot of education but was a 105 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: pretty good miner, and they were like, we can exploit that, sure, 106 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: and it just is like and then it was gone 107 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: and he didn't know how to cope with his life anymore. 108 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: And I, yeah, I think that's it's a little bit heartbreaking. 109 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: It's one of those things where you're like, if you 110 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: had not if none of that had happened, would he have, 111 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 1: you know, lived out his life with you have Dokia 112 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: and their kids and been poor and probably not having 113 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: a great and luxurious life, but you know, not the 114 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: extreme roller coaster that his life began, because right right, 115 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. I hope his his surviving children. I 116 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: think his daughters are still alive. I hope they are 117 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: prosperous and faring very well, but I don't know. It's 118 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: not my business to look into their lives. No, so, uh, yeah, 119 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: I know. I wondered how you would perceive some of 120 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: this as interlocking into what we had talked about on 121 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: you know, the famine discussion, because you did the research 122 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: on the Holidaymoor episode. Yeah, did it conjure any thoughts 123 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: or like, were you like, huh, I hadn't thought about 124 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: how this led to this, lad to this or you 125 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: usually have a pretty good holistic. 126 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: Sense of how it all plays out. 127 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: Uh, this this is not the only effort, like Stalin's 128 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: Fidier plans, not the only effort to like let's just 129 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: totally revolutionize how things work, oh right, but then went 130 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: very badly and caused it famine or other strife and 131 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: huge death tolls. And so I feel like, now I 132 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: am really cynical any time I hear any proposal for 133 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: any kind of effort like that, And I'm like, yeah, 134 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: it's not going to go great. And with this one 135 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: in particular, so much of the Holladaymoor episode was focused 136 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: specifically on like farming and grain and food that I like, 137 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: I didn't spend a lot of time a lot of 138 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: time thinking about like industry and what happened after that 139 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: and all of that. So it's definitely all part of 140 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: the same the same. 141 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 3: Arc of. 142 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: A lot of really radical plans that did not work well, right, 143 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: some of which on the surface seemed kind of compelling. 144 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 2: Like one of the things that I. 145 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: Was thinking about as we talked about this was like 146 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: all the praise for labor, Like I can absolutely understand 147 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: why a lot of folks who were in the labor 148 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: movement in the United States were like, yeah, this is 149 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: this is the way that like and like had a 150 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: lot of especially at the outset, like very pro pro 151 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: Soviet ideas, until it became clear that like a lot 152 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: of things were leading to famine and destruction and death. 153 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: Because when you're talking about the rights of workers and 154 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: praising the worker and like praising innovations that came from 155 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: the worker, I'm like, I can totally see how people 156 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: might just like eat that up when you're in a 157 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: movement that's like trying to fight for the basic rights. 158 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 2: Of the worker. Yeah. 159 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, So what I'm hearing is that in your big 160 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: sweeping changes are bad, is that you're never gonna get 161 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: on board with my internet time idea as long as 162 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 1: your internet time does not lead to mass famine and 163 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: death when liquidating a class of dear lord, no people, 164 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: no one's ever going to I hope people know that. 165 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: While I do love the concept of internet time, I 166 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: am joking. 167 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 2: I don't. I'm not really trying to start a movement, 168 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 2: but man, it would be so cool. 169 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: Let's just all take a week off and then we 170 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: just start the clocks over again, because that would work. 171 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: That's no problem. I feel like I'm exactly the person. See, 172 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: this is exactly why I should never have a position 173 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: of extreme power, because nobody who's like kind of a creative, 174 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: dreamy kind of person should do that. Because then I 175 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,599 Speaker 1: say that and it sounds like a great idea to me, 176 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: and there are a bunch of other people that go, 177 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: how are we going to do this? 178 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: Shoot, didn't even think this through. That's how it happens. 179 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: That happens. 180 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: I'm having a flashback to the time when we were 181 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: owned by a previous company and they changed all of 182 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: our email overnight and didn't tell anybody. Oh yeah, yeah, 183 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: people thought they were fired. 184 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, because none of us could log in. 185 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, went to log in to their email over the weekend, 186 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: their account did not exist anymore. 187 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: They were like, I still work here. Yeah. It was 188 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 2: a wild time. Yeah, wild time. 189 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: So the time I got in trouble for yelling at 190 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: some people for having not communicated that. You got in 191 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: trouble for that. I don't know if I got in 192 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: trouble for that. Getting in trouble is probably too strong 193 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: a word. I sent a very pointed email, which was 194 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: maybe too pointed, and the response I got to it 195 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: was not was not like, oh, you are so right. 196 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: I absolutely should go apologize to everyone who thought they 197 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: were fired. 198 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 2: It was so many years ago. 199 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a previous iteration of our thing. 200 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 1: It was just a wild time. Every company, by the way, 201 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: has been through that at some point in time. Oh, 202 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: I mean I can't anytime I talk to friends who 203 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: work for some big corporation or even a small corporation. 204 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: Small companies have problems too, for sure. It's like they 205 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: all have some absurd story of like, and then the 206 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: decision was made to. 207 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 2: Give us all a baby goat for Fridays. 208 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: Like there's always some wacky thing that someone thinks is 209 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: going to be a big innovation and of course turns 210 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: into an absolute stressful train wreck. I don't know the 211 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: solution here, because I do think like, sometimes you have 212 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: to shake stuff up, but it's hard to do that 213 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: and maintain like the through line that people need to 214 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: get their jobs done. 215 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 216 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's tricky, tricky anyway, he's here our hippie talks. 217 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: I'm big. 218 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: Yes, I think part of my email had said I'm 219 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: probably gonna get in trouble for sending this email, and 220 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: the response included, if you have to put in the 221 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: sentence I'm probably going to get in trouble for sending 222 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: this email. 223 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 2: Don't send the email. And I was like, we're not 224 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 2: gonna agree on this. Maww. 225 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 226 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: We also talked about Emily Warren Roebling this week and 227 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: our accidental theme of stuff inspired by TV that I 228 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: didn't watch. 229 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 2: I have not watched this show. 230 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, in this case, neither of us has watched the 231 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: show The Gilded Age. I was too busy getting up 232 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: early so that I could watch an episode of Succession 233 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: before I. 234 00:12:59,160 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 3: Right. 235 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: God, So it's a show I may watch sometime. I 236 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: just I have not watched it. So while while I 237 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: was doing research on this episode, I listened to an 238 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: episode of the podcast Bowery Boys. 239 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 2: Oh Yeah. 240 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: Podcast Yeah about New York history is sort of like 241 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: a background knowledge listening for me. This is an episode 242 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: that they put out that was about all three of 243 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: the Roblings, so John and Washington and Emily Warren Robling. 244 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 1: And near the beginning of it, they were talking about 245 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: favorite bridges designed by John Robling, and one of them 246 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: says that he particularly likes this one that is over 247 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: the Delaware River near the New York Pennsylvania border, not 248 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: far from Port Jervis, And I was like, hang on, 249 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: I know exactly where you're talking about. 250 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:53,839 Speaker 2: Let me look. 251 00:13:54,280 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 1: And every fall, a bunch of friends of mine we 252 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,719 Speaker 1: go in together. When I say a bunch, I mean 253 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: like thirty of us, and we rent what is effectively 254 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: a mansion that has sleeping space for thirty people, which 255 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: you can do when you have thirty people all pitching 256 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: in on the cost. And as we drive out to 257 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: this place, there is this weird one lane bridge that 258 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: we drive over, and it has always been weird to me. 259 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: Number one, that it is a one lane bridge. Traffic 260 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: goes on it in both directions, so you gotta yield 261 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: if if it's coming from the other way. But then 262 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: also just the structure of it seemed odd to me. 263 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: I was like, this bridge, it's weird to have a 264 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: one lane bridge. 265 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 2: You don't see many of those. 266 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: I know they exist, especially more rural areas, but like, 267 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: you don't see that many of them, and just the 268 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: building of it was weird. Turns out, as I learned 269 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: from this episode of The Bowery Boys, that this was 270 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: originally an aqueduct that John Roebling designed, and that coal 271 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: barge is coal barges would be floated across it, and 272 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: I was like, well, that answers why this bridge has 273 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: also always seemed so weirdly designed to me. So then 274 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: of course I immediately got into the group chat with 275 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: the friends that, you know, some of the friends that 276 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: I go on this trip with every year, and I 277 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: was like, hey, you know that one way bridge that 278 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: we are always driving over, here's why it's so weird. 279 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 2: So that was great. 280 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: Some things came up in the research for this that 281 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: didn't make it into the episode. One is that there 282 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: was a report in one of the newspapers in eighteen 283 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: ninety from Trenton, New Jersey, and I'm just going to 284 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: read it quote State Dairy Inspector maguire is investigating the 285 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: cause of the sickness which attacked two or three dozen 286 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: of the guests at a barn party given by Missus 287 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: Washington a Roebling on Friday evening. 288 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 2: None of these cases so far have been fatal. Bump bump. 289 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: I didn't find any other anything about this, but I was, 290 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: you know, writing just a whole story in my head 291 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: about you know that Emily the party that Emily were 292 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: in robling Through where everybody got food poisoning. Yeah, that's 293 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: what I'm assuming happened. There saw contradictory accounts of whether 294 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: she had resigned from her leadership position at the Daughters 295 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: of the American Revolution because of her health or whether 296 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: she was voted out in something that sounded like it 297 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: was full of drama. 298 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 2: I mean, I could not confirm which of those was 299 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 2: say it does. 300 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: I was like, uh, that sounds like maybe a good 301 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: cover story, but I don't actually know, right, I mean 302 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: I am now probably writing historical fan fiction, but like, 303 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: given the nature of that, she wrote near the end 304 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: of her life about her son even not believing she 305 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: was capable of what she was capable of and stuff. 306 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 1: Was she getting real frustrated with people towards the end 307 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: and maybe just like tired of dealing with the things 308 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,959 Speaker 1: she had been I mean, she was so accomplished in 309 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: so many ways. Am I particularly marvel at how much 310 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: education she continued to go after, you know, in her 311 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: very adult life. And so I could see someone like 312 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: that eventually hitting that tipping point of like, but you 313 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: are treating me like a delicate flower. I have all 314 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: the skills and knowledge and maybe that becoming a greeting 315 00:17:53,800 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: point in social situation that makes sense, or maybe characteristically 316 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: some other members of that group were like, what did 317 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: she say about foreign husbands? I don't know, Yeah, I 318 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: didn't love that at all. No, So we said that 319 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: there's a ton of correspondence between her and Washington that 320 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: survives in a collection, but like, it's not they haven't 321 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: been published for everyone to read, right right, There are 322 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: a couple of quotes from them that have circulated in 323 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: a lot of articles. One is actually not between Washington 324 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: and Emily, but was a letter that Washington wrote to 325 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: his sister right after they met. And I don't remember 326 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: the exact wording, but he was talking about having met 327 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: this woman and he said something like, so, yes, someone 328 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: has finally captured your brother Washi's heart. And the fact 329 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 1: that he were for her to himself is Washy. I 330 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: found really charming. And I'm like, I'm guessing this is 331 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: probably like the family nickname for him. 332 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 2: The other was and I think. 333 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: This might have also been a letter from him to 334 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: his sister, not a letter it was. This was also 335 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: to his sister, so he wrote he described her as 336 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: quote a most entertaining talker, which is a mighty good thing. 337 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: You knew, I myself, being so stupid, I loved that. Also, 338 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: you had remarked on that address and sort of the 339 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: moment where we took a took a little sponsor break, 340 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: you had had commented on the address at the alumni dinner. 341 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: I can't remember the exact wording of what you said, 342 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: but it was something to the effect of, man, that 343 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: guy could really write a speech. Yeah, I mean, like 344 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: we we were both really quite moved by it. During recording, 345 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: we were both very emotionally overcome by this very flowery, 346 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: beautiful description, you know, which has some elements today that 347 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: come across, as I would say, a little maybe patronizing, 348 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: but like still very very beautifully written. 349 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 2: So Rother W. 350 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 1: Raymond, who gave that address, was a mining engineer. He 351 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: was not a graduate of renssel Or Polytechnic Institute, And 352 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: as I understand it, the reason he was giving the 353 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: address at this alumni dinner was specifically. 354 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:38,479 Speaker 2: Because he wrote a good speech. 355 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: He had a reputation as a speech maker, so like 356 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: he gave this speech for that reason, not because he 357 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: was affiliated with the with the institute. Well, he gave 358 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: a good speech. That's a really good speech. As you said, 359 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: some of it obviously patronizing, which is part and partial 360 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: of its time, right, but it's also. 361 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 2: Really like. 362 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: In terms of a narrative, it's just beautifully structured. Yeah, 363 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: I love it. Do you dream that someone would write 364 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: such a speech about me? 365 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 2: My goodness. Yeah. 366 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: There are a lot of sort of more recent write 367 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: ups that are really focused on Emily in the ground. 368 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: She broke into a space that women were not part of, right, Yes, 369 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: super important. I think it's also really important to talk 370 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: about disability and access and accommodations and things like that, 371 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: because still today there are a lot of people who 372 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: are skilled in whatever field, but like like an office 373 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: is not accessible to them, right And in a lot 374 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: of cases like the default in the United States, while 375 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: we do have things like the Americans with Disabilities Act, 376 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: which is a minimum, not the end, I'll be all 377 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: of everything, right, Like, there are still places, plenty of 378 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: plenty of places where sort of the go to responses, well, 379 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: like that person obviously can't do that job, instead of 380 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: how can we make this job accessible to that person 381 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: who has this expertise? Right, I mean I get frustrated 382 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: to I'm sure you have run across this where there 383 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: are discussions about situations like that, and they're always there's 384 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: always some person who thinks they are telling it like 385 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: it is, and they're like, why should jobs have to 386 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: make special dispensations so this one person can get blah 387 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. And I get I rate, which 388 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: I know you do as well, and it's like, no, 389 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: the point is that everyone could do that job. 390 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 2: Job. 391 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just for this one person. In this case, 392 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: there might be one person you can easily point to 393 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: and say they are the beneficiary of the work that 394 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: we're immediately doing to like make this place accessible. But 395 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: that will mean that going forward, it is accessible to everyone. 396 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: That is the point, Like I just it makes me 397 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: rabid angry. 398 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, my mom. 399 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: When my mom went back to work after my brother 400 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: and I were little, because she stayed home with us 401 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: for a little bit. 402 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 2: After some years after my brother was born, when she went. 403 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 1: Back to work, she spent the entire rest of her 404 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: career working with disabled people. So she taught disabled adults, 405 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: she worked in a couple of different roles in long 406 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: term care for kids, disabled kids who had like really 407 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: really high support needs. And then she herself started to 408 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: become disabled and the place she was working, which was 409 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: literally residential care for disabled children and did not want 410 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: to accommodate my mom's disability. That is the wildest Uh yeah, yeah, 411 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: so this is not a new thing. It's uh progress 412 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: has been made, uh since the days of Emily Warren 413 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: Rubling and her husband, but not to the point that 414 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: we need to in my opinion. Yeah, Okurt, So I 415 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: think that's where we can leave it today. Fingers crossed 416 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: for better futures. 417 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, So Happy Friday. 418 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: Whatever's happening this weekend for you, I hope it goes well. 419 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: We will be back with a Saturday Classic tomorrow. We 420 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: will have something brand new on Monday. Stuff you Missed 421 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more 422 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 423 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.