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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My

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Speaker 1: name is Joe McCormick, and today we are bringing you

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Speaker 1: an episode from the Vault, an older episode of the show.

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Speaker 1: This one originally aired May nineteenth, twenty twenty two, and

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Speaker 1: it is called Creature with the Crystal Skin, about animals

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Speaker 1: that you can see straight through or see inside. I

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Speaker 1: hope you enjoy.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name

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Speaker 3: is Robert.

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Speaker 1: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we're going to

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Speaker 1: be talking about a biological topic which has fascinated me

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Speaker 1: for a while, ever since I was reading about a

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Speaker 1: family of frogs that I'm going to come back to

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Speaker 1: in a bit. And this is the idea of transparency

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Speaker 1: or translucency in animals, animals that have clear or at

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Speaker 1: least translucent skin or other body parts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and just thinking about this topic brought me back

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Speaker 3: made me think about some stories that I probably haven't

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Speaker 3: read in about twenty years now, but the tales of

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Speaker 3: Fritz Lieber, a genre ryder who lived nineteen ten through

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety two. A fun note, he was the son

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Speaker 3: of actor Fritz Lieber, so he's technically a junior to

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Speaker 3: his senior. Fritz Lieber Senior was in films like nineteen

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Speaker 3: thirty three's Phantom of the Opera starring Claude Rains, and

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Speaker 3: then Fritz Lieber Junior's son, Justin Lieber, was a philosopher

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Speaker 3: and a sci fi author in his own right.

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Speaker 1: I think at some point I just popped open his

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Speaker 1: Wikipedia page and I saw there was a top line

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Speaker 1: reference to him also being, in addition to being like

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Speaker 1: a sword and sorcery author and science fiction author, a

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Speaker 1: chess expert. And that was one of those things where

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Speaker 1: I was like, is that real or is that just

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Speaker 1: like something that the author of them, say, elf, or

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Speaker 1: someone associated with them kind of snuck in there.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm not as as up on the

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Speaker 3: full Fritz Lieber biography there, but he wrote a lot

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Speaker 3: of stuff, various genre works. Some of his stories were

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Speaker 3: were also adapted into I think like a couple of

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Speaker 3: episodes of Night Gallery back in the day. But the closest,

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Speaker 3: the thing that's closest to my heart, the material that

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Speaker 3: I'm familiar with, are these stories he wrote about these

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Speaker 3: two characters Fofford and the Gray Mouser. So this is

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Speaker 3: your sort of iconic adventuring duo, and he's these stories

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Speaker 3: helped make it iconic. You have a pair, a barbarian

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Speaker 3: and a rogue and they get into all manner of adventures.

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Speaker 3: These were These were very popular stories. I think they

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Speaker 3: had an influence on the development of dungeons and dragons.

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Speaker 3: And they hold a pretty well too.

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Speaker 1: Well. If it's a barbarian in a rogue, that sounds

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Speaker 1: like Conan and SUBATAI.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, very much of that vein. So they're

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Speaker 3: great fun. They're always encountering various enemies and magic and

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Speaker 3: magical creatures. And in one work in particular, I believe

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Speaker 3: this is The Swords of Lankhma from nineteen sixty eight,

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Speaker 3: they encounter gules. Now I love goules, as they appear

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Speaker 3: in various other works of fiction, these guls are rather different,

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Speaker 3: and I think when I first read Fritz Leiber's Gules,

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Speaker 3: I was a little I wasn't that into them. I

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Speaker 3: was like, ah, this is a little too different from

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Speaker 3: what I'm used to. I just want bone chewing pallid humanoids.

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Speaker 3: Because he takes the idea in a rather different direction.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so your standard gul is just a sort of

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Speaker 1: deathly looking humanoid who hangs out in graveyards and eats

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Speaker 1: grave flesh, right.

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Speaker 3: Right, These gules have translucent anatomy. Essentially, they just look

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Speaker 3: like a walking skeleton because all of the soft tissues

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Speaker 3: in their bodies are transparent. So the only thing you

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Speaker 3: can actually see is the skeleton, unless like the light

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Speaker 3: is just right, because you know, it's not true and

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Speaker 3: it's not magical invisibility. It's supposed to be translucent tissue

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Speaker 3: based invisibility.

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Speaker 1: So you would only see the skeleton. In most cases,

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Speaker 1: though there is more than the skeleton. They've got some fleshy,

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Speaker 1: soft squishy bits, but those just let the light pass

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Speaker 1: right through.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, everything is see through except for the skeleton. So

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Speaker 3: I actually just want to read a little bit from

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Speaker 3: the Swords of Lackmar from nineteen sixty eight. After an

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Speaker 3: instant shock, Fawford realized that these must be ghoules, whose

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Speaker 3: flesh and inner organs he had heard with much skepticism,

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Speaker 3: but now no longer were transparent, except when the skin

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Speaker 3: became salily or rosalie, translucent on the genital organs or

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Speaker 3: on the lops and small breasts of their women. It

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Speaker 3: was said also that they ate only flesh human by preference,

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Speaker 3: and that it was strange, indeed, to watch the raw

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Speaker 3: gobbits they gulped, course down and churn within the bars

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Speaker 3: of their ribs, gradually turning to mush and fading from

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Speaker 3: sight as their sightless blood assimilated and transformed the food.

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Speaker 3: Granting that a mere normal man might ever have the

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Speaker 3: opportunity to watch ghules feast without becoming a supply of

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Speaker 3: gobbits himself. That is some pros. Yeah, yeah, he was

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Speaker 3: a good, good writer. There's a lot of fun and

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Speaker 3: whimsy too. So the Ghules in this story, they describe

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Speaker 3: themselves as being crystal fleshed, and they see it as

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Speaker 3: their sort of sacred responsibility to consume the flesh of say,

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Speaker 3: human beings, because our flesh is murkier, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: not that's translucent purity. So when they eat it, they

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Speaker 3: eat our flesh, it eventually becomes translucent, It becomes crystal

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Speaker 3: inside of them. There's a female Ghul that pops up

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Speaker 3: in these stories that I believe of Fawford actually ends

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Speaker 3: up falling for after a while, and she also has a.

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Speaker 1: Great story about ghoul romance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, gool romance. But there's a bit where she's

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Speaker 3: talking about like the differences between between gules and humans,

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Speaker 3: and she tells him bones are beautiful, they are made

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Speaker 3: to be seen. And there's another part where Fauford is

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Speaker 3: asking questions about what's it like to be a ghoul

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Speaker 3: and he picks up on a bit of a scientific

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Speaker 3: critique that often comes up when discussing things like H. G.

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Speaker 3: Wells Invisible Man. He says, well, how can you see

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Speaker 3: anything if light passes right through you? He asked her

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Speaker 3: if ghules happen to see with the inside of the

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Speaker 3: back of their skulls, and she responds, quote, look closely

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Speaker 3: into my eyes, no, without getting between them and the fire.

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Speaker 3: Can you see a small rainbow in each That's where

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Speaker 3: the light is refracted to the seeing part of my brain,

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Speaker 3: and a very tiny real image formed there.

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Speaker 1: I love alternative visual anatomy. That's great.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I love that he made sure to actually throw

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Speaker 3: that in there to address how his gules see anything.

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Speaker 3: But anyway, like I said, when I first read of

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Speaker 3: these creatures, I was like, oh, this is too different.

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Speaker 3: These are not gouls. I can really get behind But now,

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Speaker 3: as we're about to jump into the discussion of some

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Speaker 3: amazing natural world organisms that have various levels of translucency

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Speaker 3: to their bodies, I'm looking back on Fritz Lieber's ghules,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, these are amazing, these ideas of these translucent,

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Speaker 3: fleshed beings like jumping into battle with their axes, and

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Speaker 3: to everyone on the other side, they just look like

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Speaker 3: skeletons because that's the only part that isn't see through.

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Speaker 1: That is great. Okay, well, I guess the first example

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Speaker 1: of a real animal I want to talk about today

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Speaker 1: a group of animals actually known as the glass frogs.

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Speaker 1: And a little bit of terminology distinction. I guess we've

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Speaker 1: already said these words, but transparency versus translucency. If you're

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Speaker 1: not familiar, transparency you can think of as being clear

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Speaker 1: like glass, pretty much allowing all light to pass through,

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Speaker 1: whereas translucency you can think of, like frosted glass, is

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Speaker 1: allowing a lot of light to pass through, but not

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Speaker 1: as much as a total clarity.

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Speaker 3: You'll find that these are those sometimes used interchangeably, even

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Speaker 3: sometimes in scientific papers. Though.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, the so called glass frogs comprise many different

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Speaker 1: species but they all belong to the family Centralinidae, which

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Speaker 1: is found in regions throughout Central and South America. These

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Speaker 1: are mostly arboreal creatures, meaning they live in trees, often

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Speaker 1: in rainforests, and especially near sources of fresh water. So

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Speaker 1: if you want to find a glass frog, most of

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Speaker 1: the time a good place to look is like on

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Speaker 1: leaves overhanging the bank of a jungle stream. But if

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Speaker 1: you were to go out looking for one of these creatures,

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Speaker 1: you might have a bit of difficulty difficulty finding the frog,

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Speaker 1: even if you're looking right at the leaf where it's perched,

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Speaker 1: because glass frogs can blend in very well with foliage

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Speaker 1: and Rabbi attached a couple of pictures for you to

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Speaker 1: look at here of various green and yellow species of

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Speaker 1: glass frogs perched on a leaf. It's especially good to

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Speaker 1: look at like a leaf that's sort of lit from behind,

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Speaker 1: and the frog will be right next to a collection

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Speaker 1: of what looked like little semi transparent, semi opaque spherical globules,

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Speaker 1: and these are actually the frog's eggs. One of the

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Speaker 1: most striking things about the glass frog family is their skin. Now,

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Speaker 1: most species of glass frogs appear from above to have

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Speaker 1: a kind of moderately translucent skin, especially on some parts

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Speaker 1: of their dorsal sides, such as like the toes or

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Speaker 1: the legs, and so you can see the blurry specter

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Speaker 1: of bones in their toes or in their legs, which

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Speaker 1: is very creepy and very cool. This would be like

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Speaker 1: crystal ghules. You can actually see the bones through the skin.

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Speaker 1: Some species take this even further and have not only

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Speaker 1: semi translucent legs or parts of the backs, but nearly

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Speaker 1: totally transparent bellies. So this would be the belly the

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Speaker 1: ventral side. Again not all species, but with some it

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Speaker 1: can be almost as clear as glass, and you can

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Speaker 1: look through and see their internal organs in full color,

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Speaker 1: including a little tiny beating heart and a big thick

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Speaker 1: red artery going down the middle of the inside of

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Speaker 1: the stomach, a big coiled white mass of intestines, and

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Speaker 1: so forth.

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Speaker 3: I mean they remind you of the visible man and

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Speaker 3: the visible woman anatomy kits. Yeah, I think we all

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Speaker 3: grew up with you know, where you have the plastics

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Speaker 3: see through skin and have you put all the little

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Speaker 3: organs in there. It's like this frog is meant to

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Speaker 3: be an anatomical education tool.

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Speaker 1: Now, another feature only tangentially related to their transparence your translucency.

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Speaker 1: If you've ever seen the Planet Earth feature on glass frogs,

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Speaker 1: it includes at least one species of glass frog that

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Speaker 1: shows this amazing egg defense behavior. So with these frogs,

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Speaker 1: what will often happen is that there will be a

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Speaker 1: clutch of fertilized eggs sticking to the side of a

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Speaker 1: leaf that may be hanging above the water, and there

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Speaker 1: will be a father frog guarding the eggs. These eggs

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Speaker 1: are apparently a favorite food of local carnivorous wasps that

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Speaker 1: will kind of zoom in and try to munch on

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Speaker 1: them and pull a partially formed tadpole out of the

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Speaker 1: egg and take it away to eat it. But the

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Speaker 1: frog fathers actually defend their eggs literally by kicking the wasps,

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Speaker 1: which is amazing to watch. You should look up this clip.

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Speaker 3: Yes I was watching this earlier, as is often the

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Speaker 3: case with Planet Earth footage. Very impressive, gorgeous to watch,

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Speaker 3: but it also really drives home how much the glass

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Speaker 3: frog looks like a clutch of eggs on the back

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Speaker 3: of that leaf.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they often have marking or coloration patterns on their

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Speaker 1: backs that makes the adult male frog look like a

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Speaker 1: clutch of eggs itself, so it just kind of blends

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Speaker 1: in and then when the wasp gets close, it kicks.

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Speaker 1: One of the amazing things is seeing so it's this

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Speaker 1: tiny little frog. And a lot of these these frogs

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Speaker 1: are so small. They might be just a you know,

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Speaker 1: the size of the size of a fingertip, maybe a

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Speaker 1: couple of centimeters. I mean, they vary in size with

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Speaker 1: different species, but most of them are very small. But

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Speaker 1: then when you see that leg suddenly launch out like

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Speaker 1: a spring, it's like enormous. It's incredible how far it reaches.

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Speaker 1: But to come back to the glass element of the

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Speaker 1: glass frog, what is this translucent or in some cases

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Speaker 1: nearly transparent skin for why would it be of evolutionary

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Speaker 1: benefit to this frog to have parts of its body

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Speaker 1: being almost clear? Well, I think for a long time

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Speaker 1: it was presumed to have some kind of role in camouflage,

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Speaker 1: but we didn't really know for sure. But there was

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Speaker 1: a paper published in twenty twenty by James B. Barnett

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Speaker 1: at All in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences

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Speaker 1: called Imperfect Transparency and Camouflage in glass Frogs, And this

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Speaker 1: was really interesting. It did some experiments to try to

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Speaker 1: look at the translucent skin of a glass frog and

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Speaker 1: say what does it actually do in practice? Does it

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Speaker 1: work as camouflage and if so how? Now They start

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Speaker 1: by giving some background on biological camouflage in general. For example,

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Speaker 1: camouflage patterns on animals can help in multiple ways. They

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Speaker 1: say they can prevent both detection and recognition, so you

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Speaker 1: can imagine those as two slightly different things. Preventing detection

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Speaker 1: might mean that a predator doesn't notice you at all,

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Speaker 1: like they don't see that you're there, whereas preventing recognition

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Speaker 1: might mean that if the predator sees you, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: recognize you as what you are, maybe you look like

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Speaker 1: something else. And the authors mentioned that there are multiple

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Speaker 1: ways camouflage works. It can work by, say, matching a background.

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Speaker 1: There are lots of examples of this. But you can

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Speaker 1: think about a moth or a butterfly that has patterns

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Speaker 1: in coloration on its wings that resemble the patterns and

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Speaker 1: coloration of the bark of a treees it lands on

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Speaker 1: the tree, and it just kind of blends in. Another

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Speaker 1: thing would be mimicking particular background features, trying to recreate

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Speaker 1: textures that would exist in the background, and another thing

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Speaker 1: would be disrupting or breaking up edges trying to have

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Speaker 1: patterns that make it harder to tell where the outline

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Speaker 1: of an animal would be. But they raise an interesting question.

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Speaker 1: What if you're an animal that lives in a habitat

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Speaker 1: where you can't always predict in advance what kind of

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Speaker 1: background you will be the foreground of What if you're

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Speaker 1: a vulnerable creature that needs camouflage but you live in

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Speaker 1: a highly variable environment. Evolution has at least one solution

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Speaker 1: to this, which is active color change. So we've talked

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Speaker 1: about this on the show before, but think of octopuses

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Speaker 1: with their chromatophorre cells that allow them to shift colors

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Speaker 1: and blend in with seaweed or rocks or the sandy

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Speaker 1: floor of the ocean. There are tons of amazing videos

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Speaker 1: of this. You can look up where you wouldn't even

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Speaker 1: see it, Like a octopus just lands among some rocks

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Speaker 1: or some coral or seaweed or something and it just

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Speaker 1: becomes them. It's amazing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just almost a year ago I got to

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Speaker 3: observe an octopus in the wild in Hawaii, and yeah,

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Speaker 3: it got to watch it do this it was amazing,

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Speaker 3: like one of these situations where you watch it go

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Speaker 3: to some rocks or a bit of coral blend in,

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Speaker 3: and since you've been watching it, you can still make

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Speaker 3: out where it is. But if you move your eyes

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Speaker 3: away from it from just a set for just a

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Speaker 3: second and then come back, you can't see it anymore.

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Speaker 3: It's still there right in front of you. But the

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Speaker 3: camouflage is so perfect it's just quite amazing to behold totally.

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Speaker 1: And another classic example one probably everybody's familiar with chameleons.

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Speaker 1: They can change colors to match background surfaces in order

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Speaker 1: to better blend in. But of course having something like

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Speaker 1: chromatophor cells evolving this capability is of course a very

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Speaker 1: niche evolutionary specialization, so you need that history feeding into it.

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Speaker 1: Is also of course biologically costly, and the authors point

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Speaker 1: out that the efficacy of active color change can actually

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Speaker 1: be limited by things such as the range of patterns available.

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Speaker 1: So an animal that can actively change its markings and

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Speaker 1: color patterns can't do that to an infinite degree of flexibility.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's still it's going to have surface features

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Speaker 1: and colors and like it can change somewhat, but can't

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Speaker 1: look like absolutely anything right right. And another thing is

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Speaker 1: the speed of change, so it takes a minute. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can see this even with octopuses that can change

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Speaker 1: very fast, but it still takes a few seconds sometimes.

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Speaker 1: So is there any other way to blend in with

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Speaker 1: your surroundings? Well, what about transparency. Transparency, of course has

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Speaker 1: the ability to create very high fidelity camouflage because you

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Speaker 1: can literally see through to the background. It can match

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Speaker 1: anything in the background. There's no limitation on the colors

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Speaker 1: or patterns available because you're just actually seeing the background,

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Speaker 1: and it works instantaneously. There's no time needed to change

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Speaker 1: if you just are transparent. Of course, there are difficulties

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Speaker 1: with transparency as well, but one example I might use

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Speaker 1: would be if you've ever seen pictures of this. There

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Speaker 1: is a butterfly known as the glass wing butter fly

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Speaker 1: that has you know, like all butterflies, it has large,

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Speaker 1: beautiful wings, but most of the surface of its wings

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Speaker 1: is actually transparent, like a pane of glass. It has

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Speaker 1: a sort of orange and black and white outline of

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Speaker 1: the wings, but most of the wings you can just

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Speaker 1: see right through them and they're not even reflective. They

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Speaker 1: don't cause a glare. I was watching a video about

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Speaker 1: this actually, and the glass wing Butterflies are able to

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Speaker 1: prevent their wings from being too reflective or shining back

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Speaker 1: with a glare by having these little tiny nano pillars

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Speaker 1: of wax on the surface of the transparent membranes that

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Speaker 1: sort of break up light patterns. I think kind of

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Speaker 1: like the way that you might have cones of foam

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Speaker 1: on the walls of a studio to break up the

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Speaker 1: reflection of sound waves. On this they would break up

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Speaker 1: the reflection of light waves with these tiny little wax

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Speaker 1: spikes all over the wings. Of course, you can't see

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Speaker 1: them because they're too small. Instead, it just looks like

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Speaker 1: clear glass.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, these are weird to see in the wild because

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Speaker 3: it does look even as you're watching them fly around,

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Speaker 3: it looks like, well, something or something has come along

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Speaker 3: and just punch sections of their wing out. It's just

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Speaker 3: completely translucent.

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Speaker 1: But the wings wouldn't work, of course, if they just

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Speaker 1: had holes in them. Instead, they actually had to evolve

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Speaker 1: layers of cells in their wings, thin layers of cells

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Speaker 1: that would allow light to pass right through and would

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Speaker 1: prevent the surface of the wings from picking up glare

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Speaker 1: from the sunlight. But also would still be solid enough

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Speaker 1: to work as wings.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're sort of like Wonder Woman's invisible plane.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, right, But I think it works for the

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Speaker 1: butterfly because the material of wings can be very thin, right,

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Speaker 1: it's a sort of thin. I believe it's made mostly

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Speaker 1: of kiten in this case, you know, kiten and cells

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Speaker 1: that can allow that to happen. It's going to be

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Speaker 1: harder to do with, say, like the thick, fleshy body

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Speaker 1: parts of something like a frog. And there are also

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Speaker 1: strategic limitations to camouflage via transparency, especially on land. Some

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Speaker 1: aquatic animals use transparency for camouflage, and we'll get more

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Speaker 1: into that in a bit when I know there's some

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Speaker 1: examples you wanted to talk about, rob but terrestrial animals

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Speaker 1: run into some different problems because on land, the author's

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Speaker 1: write quote, image distortion may be more obvious than in water,

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Speaker 1: and that kind of makes sense, right, It might be

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Speaker 1: easier to see the weird way that even a pretty

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Speaker 1: clear thing like a glass wing butterfly's wing still causes

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Speaker 1: a little bit of distortion in the background. It's not

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Speaker 1: as if there's nothing there, it's just remarkably clear for

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Speaker 1: an actual biological surface. Now, of course, glass frogs are

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Speaker 1: terrestrial animals. They make use of transparency or translucency, especially

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Speaker 1: pronounced in some species, and it is presumably a camouflage tactic,

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Speaker 1: but as I said earlier, we don't really know for sure,

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Speaker 1: or at least before this paper it was harder to know.

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Speaker 1: Is if it is a camouflage tactic, how exactly does

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Speaker 1: it work, and does it work at all? Could that

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Speaker 1: be empirically verified? And especially given some strange features such

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Speaker 1: as the fact that that in the ones that are

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Speaker 1: very clear, the really clear part of the skin is

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Speaker 1: usually on the ventral side, the belly side, and that's

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Speaker 1: the part that would be facing down to the surface

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Speaker 1: that they're perched on. More often they tend to have

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Speaker 1: some dorsal pigmentation, so on the back they might have

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Speaker 1: sort of green and yellow color patterns. You can see

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Speaker 1: they're not totally clear on the back. And so the

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Speaker 1: authors of this twenty twenty paper did a number of

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Speaker 1: different experiments contained within it to try to figure out

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Speaker 1: what was going on with these frogs. So they like

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Speaker 1: simulated the vision of predators that prey on the frogs

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Speaker 1: in the lab and looked at frogs with differing levels

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Speaker 1: of translucency or opacity to see if it made a

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Speaker 1: difference for those predators. They also tested it just with

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Speaker 1: humans looking at them to see if there were differences

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Speaker 1: in detect or recognition times based on how translucent or

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Speaker 1: opaque the frog is. And then they also performed an

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Speaker 1: experiment in the wild with simulated frogs. They like made

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Speaker 1: fake glass frogs out of gelatine with different levels of

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Speaker 1: opacity versus translucency to see if it affected predation. And

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Speaker 1: what these experiments found was that the quote perceived luminance

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Speaker 1: of the frogs was the big thing that really changed,

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Speaker 1: and it changed depending on the background compared to opaque frogs.

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Speaker 1: So I think one of the really important things to

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Speaker 1: understand here is that the translucency of the glass frog

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Speaker 1: doesn't actually change the color of the frog very much.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's basically most of them have some kind

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Speaker 1: of green or green yellow coloration pattern and that pretty

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Speaker 1: much stays the same. What actually changes is the amount

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Speaker 1: of light that is allowed to pass through the frog

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Speaker 1: and specifically parts of the frogs such as the outlines

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Speaker 1: of the toes and the legs, and the transparency of

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Speaker 1: these frogs actually did help them blend in with the background,

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Speaker 1: especially when they're you know, they're on something like a leaf,

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Speaker 1: and it will allow light to pass through their bodies

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Speaker 1: in a manner consistent with the leaf underneath, especially at

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Speaker 1: the edges where their legs are meeting the surface. And

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Speaker 1: they did find ecologically that this level of transparency did

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Speaker 1: increase survival. So the frogs that let more light through

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Speaker 1: their skin got preyed on by birds less. Now coming

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Speaker 1: to I mentioned the legs, They say that the legs

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Speaker 1: made the biggest difference here. They said it was the

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Speaker 1: legs quote which surround the body at rest and create

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Speaker 1: a diffuse transition from background to frog luminance, rather than

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Speaker 1: a sharp, highly salient edge. So I think that's the

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Speaker 1: important way to think about this. What does the glass

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Speaker 1: frog's translucent skin do. It doesn't make frog invisible, and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily change the color of the frog. Instead,

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Speaker 1: what it does is it sort of erases the outline

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Speaker 1: of the frog instead of a sharp line of color

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Speaker 1: change or high contrast between the frog and its background. Instead,

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Speaker 1: there's a gradual, soft transition from background to frog because

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Speaker 1: the frog's skin allows that light to pass through and

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Speaker 1: this is a camouflage strategy they call edge diffusion. The

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Speaker 1: real purpose is to take away your body's outline.

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Speaker 3: I like that, Yeah, I mean you see that in

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Speaker 3: various military camouflage designs as well, And it always makes

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Speaker 3: me think of have you ever seen these examples of

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Speaker 3: playing cards from World War Two? Where each playing card

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Speaker 3: has the outline of a different enemy aircraft on it,

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Speaker 3: The idea being that it'll sort of while I guess

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Speaker 3: the soldiers are sent around playing cards, they'll also end

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Speaker 3: up boning up on what p cular enemy aircraft look like,

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Speaker 3: what their outlines look like in the sky, so they

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Speaker 3: can identify them. So, you know, it's it would be

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Speaker 3: kind of like, then, okay, if we have the basic

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Speaker 3: outline of the of the airplane in people's minds, well,

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Speaker 3: what can we do to break up that outline so

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Speaker 3: that it's not instantly identifiable? Because whether you're talking about

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Speaker 3: animals or you're talking about in a natural environment, or

433
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 3: you're talking about humans in a military situation, it's like

434
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 3: seeing something identifying something and then comes whatever the action is.

435
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 3: And if you can break up that chain of reactions,

436
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 3: then you can buy yourself some time.

437
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: Right, and the outline is incredibly important for that recognition component.

438
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: Like Robigan, you can look at these pictures I attached

439
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: near the top of this section here, both of which

440
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 1: are of glass frogs perching on a green leaf that's

441
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: being sort of brightly lit or lit from behind. And

442
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 1: in both cases, actually, no matter which direction the LA

443
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: sources coming from, the soft, diffuse edges of the frog

444
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 1: really do help it kind of look more just like

445
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: a kind of spot sun a leaf or something.

446
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I mean, both of these cases, it's the

447
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 3: frog is pictured next to a pile of the eggs,

448
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 3: and like I say, the frog looks more like a

449
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 3: pile of eggs than a frog. It looks more like

450
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 3: you know, you look at it, and you're more likely

451
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 3: to say, what is that weird jelly shape? Oh, it's

452
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 3: a frog, as opposed to instantly identifying a frog. It

453
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 3: just throws you off, even for even just a fraction

454
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 3: of a second. And this is in a case where

455
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: we know what we're looking at. It's supposed to be

456
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 3: a picture of a frog.

457
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, And sometimes a fraction of a second is all

458
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: you need. Maybe if you're trying to avoid the gaze

459
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: of a bird that's passing by, or a wasp that's

460
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: passing by, or.

461
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 3: Something trying to kick a wasp in the face, that

462
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 3: sort of thing.

463
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: But as I mentioned a minute ago, while the use

464
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: of translucency or transparency in animals is somewhat rare on land,

465
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: it's actually more common in the water, and there are

466
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: some amazing examples in marine organisms.

467
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, there are a number of examples that

468
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 3: I think line up quite well with camouflage, and in

469
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 3: all cases, I guess it helps to be kind of small.

470
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 3: The smaller you are as an organism, the easier it's

471
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 3: going to be to have some sort of translucency or

472
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 3: transparency to your body. That being said, there are some

473
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 3: very large jellies, you know, they take up a fair

474
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 3: amount of space that of course are to varying degrees translucent.

475
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 3: But this is why the chances of actually seeing something

476
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 3: like one of Fritz Leiber's ghoules, or say a translucent

477
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 3: elephant are pretty slim. But yeah, there are a lot

478
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 3: of creatures in the sea that match up with this.

479
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 3: You have things like glass octopi and so forth. But yeah,

480
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 3: there are also just some really strange fish in the sea.

481
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 3: There are so many strange fish in the sea that frankly,

482
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 3: not being a strange fish is a bit strange. And

483
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 3: one of the stranger fish that you'll likely see is

484
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 3: an image of the barrel eye fish Macropinna microstoma. So

485
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 3: I think a lot of you've probably seen this image before.

486
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 3: And if you were to look up Macropinna microstoma or

487
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 3: just look up barrel eye, you'll see the one or

488
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 3: two famous images of this fish. It's a fish so

489
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 3: strange that you'll likely say, well, where does the fish

490
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 3: get off looking so strange? And then hearing you, this

491
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 3: fish will gaze at you with its two tubular eyes

492
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 3: staring straight through the translucent, fluid filled shield that composes

493
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 3: the upper portion of its head. This is just a

494
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 3: bizarre and I think oddly kind of cute looking fish

495
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 3: at least, like I say, there are a couple of

496
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 3: photographs that are out there just all over the place,

497
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 3: because this one really tore up the nature blogs years ago,

498
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 3: and even I think you're less scientifically inclined boards and

499
00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 3: so forth, we're like, what is this? Look at the

500
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 3: strange creature? How can this be?

501
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: You know what it reminds me of, is I had

502
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: to look up the name of this because I didn't

503
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: know what it was called. But the you remember those

504
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: glass balls they would have in like Worlds of Wonder

505
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: or something with the electricity inside. Yeah, it's apparently called

506
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: a plasma globe or a plasma lamp.

507
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it looks kind of like a plasma lamp for sure.

508
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's like a it's like a clear glass ball,

509
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: and then inside it'll be filled with some kind of

510
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: noble gas, I don't know, neon or something, and then

511
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: it will have a high voltage electrode in the middle.

512
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: And I guess what when you touch the you touch

513
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: the glass, it sort of like tries to jolt out

514
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: at you.

515
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

516
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: Well that's what this fish's head looks like. You're just

517
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: looking in at I don't know if that's brains or

518
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: what it's. It looks like plasma.

519
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, this this creature is so to be clear, most

520
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 3: of this fish is not translucent or transparent, but the

521
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 3: top of the head is, and inside you see primarily

522
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 3: these two big tubular type globes, and these are the

523
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 3: creature's eyes. So I'll get back in a second to

524
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 3: what this means. But this creature is the only known

525
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 3: member of their genus, but they are part of the

526
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 3: barrel eye family Opisto Proctadae, home to the spookfishes as

527
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 3: they're called with that all have these weird tubular telescoping eyes. Now,

528
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 3: these deep sea creatures have eyes like this, so they

529
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 3: can look, they can lock into a vertical position, but

530
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 3: they can also scan the depths above for possible prey.

531
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: So I imagine yourself living kind of deep, but you're

532
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 3: also concerned with the lighter regions of the ocean above

533
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 3: you because that's where potential food is. So you need

534
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 3: to be able to look straight up while yourself remaining

535
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 3: in a horizontal position, and so that's what they've evolved

536
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 3: to do. But then they can also direct them forward

537
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 3: as well, obviously to aid in such forward facing ventures

538
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 3: as say, actual eating the prey or dealing with things

539
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 3: that are happening on your level of the ocean. But

540
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 3: all these other tubular eyed spookfishes, they do not have

541
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 3: this strange translucent head situation going on. This is something

542
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 3: that we find particularly in the macropenum microstoma, and I

543
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 3: was reading about them in a paper. This was published

544
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 3: in the journal Coopia it's by authors Robinson and Rizin Bitchlar,

545
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 3: and it's titled Macropenum Microstoma and the Paradox of its

546
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 3: Tubular Eyes. So I want to read. I want to

547
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 3: read just a quote from this quote. The most striking

548
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 3: aspect of these fishes, when first viewed in situ, is

549
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 3: the transparent, cowl like shield that covers the top of

550
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 3: the head and the prominent tubular eyes. Within the shield

551
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 3: is a tough, flexible integument that attaches to dorsal and

552
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 3: medial scales behind the head and to the broad, transparent

553
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 3: subocular bones that protect the eyes. Latterly, this fragile structure

554
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 3: is typically lost or collapsed during capture by nets, and

555
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 3: it has not been previously described or figured. Beneath the

556
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 3: shield is a fluid filled chamber that surrounds and protects

557
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 3: the eyes. Okay, so first of all, one of the

558
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 3: things they mentioned, there's something we've discussed regarding deep sea

559
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 3: creatures as well. You know, you bring these up through

560
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 3: the depths, stuff implodes or explodes, etc. And neurally implodes,

561
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 3: I guess, gets torn and what you end up with

562
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: is kind of like the deflated balloon version of the animal,

563
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 3: as it would exist in the depths.

564
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, this be like sometimes people go fishing for deep

565
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: sea fish and pull them up and it looks like

566
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: they've got some giant tongue sticking out of their mouth.

567
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: That's actually like their guts being inverted by the change

568
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: in pressure because they've got like a swim bladder, and

569
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,239
Speaker 1: then when that comes up to when they come up

570
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: the pressure is too low, that inflates and it pops

571
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: their stomach out. Is really gross.

572
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, sometimes you'll see threads where people are like, look

573
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 3: at this blobfish. How disgusting? What disgusting things live in

574
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 3: the depths, And you almost want to see a Gary

575
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 3: Larson far side reversal of that situation where you have

576
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 3: the like luminous and deep sea creatures that are all

577
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 3: spread out in balloony and they have dragged like a

578
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,479
Speaker 3: human body down into the crushing depths and they're like,

579
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 3: look at this thing, look at this disgusting creature from

580
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 3: the surface world.

581
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, or just pulled literally pull your body into the

582
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: vacuum of space and say like what a what a whimp?

583
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 3: But anyway, this description they give, which I really like it,

584
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 3: describing it as a cowl like shield, like what they're

585
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 3: saying here is that there is this this clear like

586
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 3: shield on the top of their head. It's filled with fluid,

587
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 3: and inside that fluid behind that shield are its eyes.

588
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 3: And so this is wondrous when you start thinking about, well,

589
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 3: what does it mean when you have translucent or transparency

590
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 3: as a option for flesh on a being, you know,

591
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 3: imagined or otherwise. Well, like to come back to Fritz

592
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 3: Laber's gules, it would mean, why do you need your

593
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 3: eyes to be on the outside of your body at all?

594
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 3: Why not have more material there between your delicate eyes

595
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 3: and the you know, the harmful, scabby outside world.

596
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: That's an amazing point. Yes, if you have parts of

597
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: your body that are as clear as glass, you could

598
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: put your eyes inside those parts. And yeah, yeah, I

599
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: mean in a way you could already say that's sort

600
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: of true. I mean, I guess it's not true, because

601
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 1: I mean, we have focusing parts that are basically right

602
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: on the exposed parts of our eyes, the cornea and

603
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: the lens and all that. But you could say that

604
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: the light sensing cells and our retina are they're not

605
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: exposed to the outside, they're in the back of the eye.

606
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: So you could just take that another step further and

607
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 1: just say, well, let's add another clear protective layer. Except

608
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: that's just like your skin now outside the eye.

609
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, with fish too, you can also I think there's

610
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 3: also strong argument to be made for like the various

611
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 3: like slimy membranes, that coat of fish as being an

612
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 3: extra level of protection that is generally translucent as well.

613
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 3: But oh and you know, just to mention the fritz

614
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 3: lever Ghul thing again, we also when thinking about eyes,

615
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 3: we also have to remember that with human eyes we

616
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 3: also have eye lids. Because it's not just about what

617
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 3: light does when it enters the eye. We also need

618
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 3: to control how much light is entering the eye, something

619
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 3: that would be I guess quite difficult if you if

620
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 3: your your eyelids were completely transparent. Yeah, anyway, back to

621
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 3: this fid, because this fish is ultimately even more amazing

622
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 3: because its head is kind of like a space helmet,

623
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 3: you know, with eyes looking out through the substance of

624
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 3: this call like shield. And so this leads to the

625
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 3: big question, why is it like this like this is

626
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 3: this isn't It really isn't a case of camouflage, and

627
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 3: it doesn't seem to be a case of like breaking

628
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 3: up the overall outline of the organism. So what is

629
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 3: the deal? So the authors here of this paper, they

630
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 3: write that the main hypothesis is that the shield is

631
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 3: there for protection. It provides protection for these eyes from

632
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 3: the tentacles of Nigerians, one of the apparent sources of

633
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 3: food for this fish. So we're talking about like stinging

634
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 3: jellyfishes and the like. So they're gazing up, they're hoping

635
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 3: to catch sight of some sort of swirling jelly mass

636
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 3: of deliciousness. But the thing about that swirling mass of

637
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 3: jelly deliciousness is that it also will have tentacles and

638
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 3: nematicists in there that can damage your tissue all the

639
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 3: better than if there's this extra layer of protection between

640
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 3: your delicate eyes and that all of those bioweapons. So

641
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 3: it's able to rise up and entangle itself in all

642
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 3: of that and start eating without damaging its eyes.

643
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: So you say, this is just the raining hypothesis. I

644
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: guess this is difficult to test because this is like

645
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: a delicate deep sea organism and right access.

646
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but it seems seems to be the best

647
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: argument for what's going on here, And yeah, it makes sense.

648
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 3: Why else have your eyes so secluded inside of this

649
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 3: this strange space helmet like head cranial feature. It's amazing.

650
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: I love this fish.

651
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again these images are quite captivating. A lot

652
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 3: of people were amazed by this because it looking at it,

653
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 3: not knowing what you're looking at, it's easy to mistake

654
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 3: of some details on the front of the fishes, I mean,

655
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 3: for lack of a better word, face thinking, those are

656
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 3: the eyes, and it has maybe like two globular brains

657
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 3: or something, but that the globular things. That the things

658
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 3: that look like a pair of globes, those are the eyes.

659
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: Wow.

660
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 3: And if you the thing is, if you look up

661
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 3: examples of other tubular eyed fish, you can see this

662
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 3: a little better. However, this fish is so popular that

663
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 3: if you do Google image searches for tubular eyed fish,

664
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 3: you're probably gonna mostly just see this guy because he's

665
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 3: just really taken over. He's been an Internet sensation.

666
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: Steal in the limelight. But Macropinna is not the only

667
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: fish that incorporates transparent or translucent body elements.

668
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 3: Right right, there are a number of other ones. And

669
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 3: now that you set it up, so I wish I

670
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: had an example of just a purely camouflaged based translucent fish.

671
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 3: But my next example kind of exkews the definition a

672
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 3: little bit, but does contain some species and specimens that

673
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 3: have a translucent look to them. So we're dealing with

674
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 3: the crocodile ice fish. These compose an entire family Chennick

675
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 3: the day of fish that are found in the icy

676
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 3: waters of the southern Ocean ant Antarctica. Now, some of

677
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 3: these are again small enough that photographs of specimens and

678
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 3: species with the right lighting do look partially translucent, but

679
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 3: other species and particular specimens certainly don't look crystal like.

680
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 3: They just look like some sort of a weird, big

681
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 3: headed gray fish. However, the most interesting thing about these

682
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 3: fish is their blood, sometimes described as white blood or

683
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 3: translucent blood or transparent blood. This is because their blood

684
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 3: is lacking hemoglobin, and they're the only known vertebrates to

685
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 3: lack hemoglobin in their blood as adults.

686
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: Oh wow, interesting.

687
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 3: And Joe, if you scan down in the notes here,

688
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 3: I included an image here from the Studiu I'm about

689
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 3: to site which you get to see red blooded fish blood,

690
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 3: and then also an example of the milky white, almost

691
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 3: translated I would say, translucent blood of these crocodile fish,

692
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 3: So it's not quite androids in the alien franchise level

693
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 3: of white blood. It's not like milk coming out their bodies.

694
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: That white blood. Yeah, that was milk.

695
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 3: Yeah. This reminds me of certain spirits alcohols that you'll

696
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 3: find that have kind of a like an opay milky

697
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 3: consistency without being like that white. But anyway, it's pointed

698
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 3: out by Sidel and O'Brien in When Bad Things Happen

699
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 3: to GoodFish excellent title published in Journal of Experimental Biology

700
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 3: in two thousand and six. This is a unique trait

701
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 3: due to their cold, isolated environment, resulting in not only

702
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 3: the loss of hemoglobin expression, but sometimes myoglobin expression as

703
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 3: well and to refresh. Hemoglobin is a red protein responsible

704
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 3: for transporting oxygen in the blood of vertebrates, and myoglobin

705
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 3: is a red protein containing heme, which carries and stores

706
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,240
Speaker 3: oxygen in muscle cells.

707
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: Right, So myoglobin is a great example. Like if you

708
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,439
Speaker 1: ever cut open a piece of meat that you get

709
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: in the grocery store, that's probably it's got like some

710
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: red juice coming out of it. People often call that blood.

711
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: They think it is blo blood. But you know an

712
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: animal that's been butchered, has usually been drained of its

713
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: blood that's going to be myoglobin, the sort of pinkish

714
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: fluid within the muscles.

715
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, So without either of these being expressed and the organism,

716
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 3: the result is that their blood is white or colorless

717
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 3: or transparent, if you will. So the authors here point

718
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 3: out a few key details about the environment that these

719
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 3: fish have evolved to thrive in. So, first of all,

720
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 3: is really cold here, obviously, and it's not only really cold,

721
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 3: but it's oxygen rich. Quote, because oxygen solubility and seawater

722
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 3: is inversely proportional to temperature. The cold Antarctic seas thus

723
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 3: are an exceptionally oxygen rich aquatic habitat all. Right on

724
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 3: top of that, it's isolated, so you have circumpolar currents

725
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 3: and deep ocean trenches surrounding the continent of Antarctica, cutting

726
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 3: these creatures off from other fauna. And then also the

727
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 3: authors state that these fish need to evolve with very

728
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 3: little niche competition due to a mid tertiary through present

729
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 3: crash in fish diversity. So they've evolved yeah, yeah, so

730
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 3: they've evolved to do without hemoglobin because of their low

731
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 3: metabolic rates in this cold environment. But also due to

732
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 3: the high solubility of oxygen in the water at the

733
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 3: low temperatures in this environment. However, since their blood carries

734
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 3: less than ten percent of the oxygen carried in red

735
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 3: fish blood, they've also evolved other cardiovascular adaptations, including enormous

736
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 3: hearts with cardiac rates that are quote four to fivefold

737
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 3: greater than that of red blooded species. And so yeah,

738
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 3: so the authors drive home that this is blood that

739
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 3: works really well with creatures that live in a stable

740
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 3: cold water environment, and this region stabilized in such a

741
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 3: way roughly ten to fourteen million years ago, allowing ice

742
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 3: fish like this to thrive. And again, these are strange

743
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 3: looking fish. You look at them. Some times they do

744
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 3: look extremely translucent. Other times it's just kind of a

745
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,399
Speaker 3: weird looking gray, big headed fish when you know there's

746
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 3: a big honkin heart in there working extra hard.

747
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: Looks like a fish that would have fallen off the

748
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: garage and hit Ralphie in the eye and he ends

749
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: up crying, Yeah, broke his glasses.

750
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 3: Speaking of you know, coming back to fictional accounts, I

751
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 3: know that the image of Micropinna, as well as images

752
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 3: of some of these translucent glass frogs, I think they

753
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,479
Speaker 3: must have influenced the animators on the series Adventure Time,

754
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 3: because I can think of a few different cases where

755
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 3: you had some sort of a creature pop up on

756
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 3: that show that had some sort of translucent aspect of

757
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 3: its anatomy that remind me of both of these creatures.

758
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 3: If one does an Internet search for Adventure Time Frog Wizard,

759
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 3: you'll see a character named Buffo that I remember showing up.

760
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so wait, am I looking at the translucent

761
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:02,800
Speaker 1: element here? Looks like it's the throat sack?

762
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 3: Am I?

763
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, kind of puffs up the sack and the

764
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:07,959
Speaker 1: sack is translucent, right.

765
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 3: Buffo has two wizard hats on his head. But yeah,

766
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 3: when he puffs up his throat, you see several different

767
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 3: little tadpoles in there that are actually the ones that speak,

768
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 3: and each of them has a little wizard hat as well.

769
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Oh this is also like this is a

770
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: different biological connection. The frogs that keep their they incubate

771
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: their tadpoles inside their mouths or digestive systems.

772
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

773
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like for the biological trifecta here, they

774
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: should also have this wizard frog vomit up its own

775
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: stomach and scrape it out with its hands and then

776
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: swallow the stomach again.

777
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,959
Speaker 3: I got into some of this on a monster fact

778
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 3: a while back about I can't remember its name off hand,

779
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 3: but the creature from Super Mario Brothers Too that spits

780
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 3: eggs out of its mouth.

781
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: Oh I remember that thing.

782
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,479
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, But the closest comparison, drolly that I could

783
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 3: make between that and the natural world world, it takes

784
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 3: us to the realm of amphibians and frogs incubating their

785
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 3: eggs in curious places and in some cases ejecting them.

786
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: This makes me feel like we got to do the

787
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: biology of why the princess can float for two seconds?

788
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 1: She did.

789
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 3: She was good. She was my go to because she

790
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 3: could do that little flying thing. I would generally do her,

791
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 3: or I would do Luigi, but I almost never did

792
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 3: Mario or Toad.

793
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 1: Toad. What was Toad's deal? Could he throw farther or something?

794
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 3: I don't even remember. Toad was just Toad. Didn't work

795
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 3: for me. But then again, oh, I definitely didn't beat

796
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 3: that game, did not make it ver far. I got

797
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 3: as far as like, there's some sort of a hydras snake,

798
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 3: and that was that was the limit.

799
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 1: There's a lot of pulling up radishes in that one.

800
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 3: And pulling up of radishes and throwing a red That

801
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 3: was pretty satisfying, I guess, but that was way too

802
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 3: hard for me as a kid. I guess Birdo Burdo

803
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 3: was that creature's name. I had to look at Birdo Burdo.

804
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: All right, does that do it for today?

805
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 3: I believe it does. We're going to go ahead and

806
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 3: call it on this episode. Though, again, there are a

807
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 3: number of other translucent creatures we didn't have time to

808
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 3: get into on this episode. So if you have a

809
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 3: particular favorite that we didn't cover, write in about it.

810
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 3: We'd love to discuss it. Maybe we can break it

811
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 3: down in a future episode future listener mail something like that. Also,

812
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 3: if you have thoughts on translucent fleshed beings in various

813
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 3: fictional works, I'm sure it's not just Fritz Liber. There

814
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 3: have to be some other ones that I'm not thinking of,

815
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 3: or you know, the people that were influenced by by

816
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 3: Fritz Liber or people that influence Fritz Liber. I'm not

817
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 3: sure there might be some older examples to draw on,

818
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 3: but at any rate, we'd love to hear from you

819
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 3: on any and all of that. We remind you that

820
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 3: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science podcast,

821
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 3: with our episodes coming out on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Those

822
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 3: are the core episodes and the Stuff to Blow your

823
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 3: Mind podcast feed. We usually do listener mail on Mondays.

824
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 3: We also do a short form artifact or monster fact

825
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 3: on Wednesdays, and on Fridays we do Weird House Cinema.

826
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 3: That's our time to set aside most serious concerns and

827
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 3: just talk about a strange film.

828
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth

829
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch

830
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode or any other,

831
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to

832
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,240
Speaker 1: say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff

833
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: to blow your Mind dot com.

834
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

835
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

836
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 2: or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.