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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants hut. Let's go,

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Speaker 1: Let's go, Let's go, Giants. Get my Giants, give me

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Speaker 1: some jobs. Part of the Giants podcast Network. Let's roll.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of the Giants Subtle Podcast, brought

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Speaker 1: to you by Citizens, the official bank of the New

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Speaker 1: York Football Giants. I am John Schmelk. Today we are

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Speaker 1: joined by Cody Alexander. He is the creator of match

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Speaker 1: quarters dot com also head of Football Ops over at

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Speaker 1: fuel Vision. We're gonna have a Vikings preview for the

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Speaker 1: second part of this episode. Cody. John Schmelk here and

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Speaker 1: needs to brother for New Jersey and Cody does a

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Speaker 1: lot of work on the defensive side of the ball.

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Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about what Brian Dale might do

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Speaker 1: with the offense this year. Cody, this is a great

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Speaker 1: job to look in what Shane Bowen brings over from

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Speaker 1: Tennessee and how he might use his scheme with the

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Speaker 1: Giants personnel.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, I really enjoy watching

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Speaker 2: Bowen's defense in particular. You know when it was not

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Speaker 2: surprising that he was picked up really quick by the

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Speaker 2: Giants after Rabel was let go with the Titans.

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Speaker 1: All right, So why don't we start real simple first

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Speaker 1: before we start the having into the details. Why do

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Speaker 1: you like why do you enjoy Shamee Bowen's defense? Why

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Speaker 1: do you think it's effective?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think they do a lot of things that

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Speaker 2: modern defenses are kind of doing right now. So he's

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Speaker 2: pretty much on trend with what we're seeing across the

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Speaker 2: NFL level. I really like his nickel usage, the way

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Speaker 2: that he is able the nickel defender, in particular, the

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Speaker 2: way that he uses He had a really really good

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Speaker 2: slot defender in Roger McCreary with the Titans, and he

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Speaker 2: kind of used him as a weapon. That's really how

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Speaker 2: I see Drew Phillips fitting in with the Giants. So they,

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Speaker 2: you guys have a really good nickel and I see

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Speaker 2: him kind of using Phillips in the same way he

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Speaker 2: used McCreary.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you talked about him using the nickel because

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Speaker 1: technically the Giants base defense is a three to four set,

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Speaker 1: but watching his defense in Tennessee, there was just it

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Speaker 1: was mostly even man fronts with the ends really really

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Speaker 1: wide and they were in nickel most of the time.

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Speaker 1: Do you expect that's what we're going to see a

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Speaker 1: lot here with the Giants as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you actually go the three years that he

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Speaker 2: was a defensive coordinator with the With the Titans, they

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Speaker 2: were not high in nickel usage in terms of what

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Speaker 2: other teams in the NFL are doing it, so they

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Speaker 2: didn't just live in it. But when they did run base,

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Speaker 2: they were running it pretty much fifty to fifty four

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Speaker 2: to three or three four, just depending on what the

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Speaker 2: other team was doing. And so going back to like

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Speaker 2: why I like him, he is willing to be very

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Speaker 2: multiple in his attack. They were also one of the

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Speaker 2: top dime defenses, so they were using kind of a

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Speaker 2: four to one box with three defenders. This is where

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Speaker 2: I think like a guy like Tyler Numan who can

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Speaker 2: come in and be that kind of dime quote unquote

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Speaker 2: backer with Phillips at the nickel. Both of the guys

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Speaker 2: that you drafted showed in the preseason they're really good

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Speaker 2: near the box. And so it kind of factors in

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Speaker 2: when you look at what he did with the with

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Speaker 2: the Titans and kind of projecting forward what he might

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Speaker 2: do with the Giants.

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Speaker 1: When he runs that dime. Are you looking at three

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Speaker 1: safeties on the field there or you look at more corners.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I really think, I really think you don't

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Speaker 2: want to leave a guy like Nuban on on the

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Speaker 2: on the sideline. I think if you look at the

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Speaker 2: corner situation with the Giants, it probably is better to

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Speaker 2: have the three safeties on the field than it is

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Speaker 2: to have than it is to bring in like a

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Speaker 2: fourth corner.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have him to agree with you. Bones defense

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Speaker 1: traditionally has been very strong against the run, and I

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Speaker 1: think what makes some more impressive for me is that

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Speaker 1: a lot of his free snap alignment stuff is the

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Speaker 1: you know, two safety shell deep type of things, and

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Speaker 1: the fact that he has been able to stop the

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Speaker 1: run despite you know, leaning into early down quarters things

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Speaker 1: like that. To me, it tells me there's something really

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Speaker 1: well that his guys do fundamentally upfront. So from your perspective,

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Speaker 1: why do you think Bones defense, despite the fact again

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Speaker 1: he wants to try to have those two safeties deep

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Speaker 1: when he can, has been so effective against the run.

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Speaker 2: I think he knows how to utilize the middle of

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Speaker 2: the defense. I mean, when he was with the Titans,

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Speaker 2: he didn't necessarily have the linebackers that the Giants have,

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Speaker 2: but he had two really good inside guys. So I

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Speaker 2: see a guy like Dexter Lawrence being used in a

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Speaker 2: way of really mitigating a lot of the space in

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Speaker 2: the middle of the box, keeping those linebackers clean and

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Speaker 2: then able to run the ball, run to the ball.

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Speaker 2: And that's where I think he's a little bit different

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Speaker 2: from some of these other guys that based the nickel.

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Speaker 2: They don't really care about the run defense as much,

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Speaker 2: whereas he really wants to have kind of a really

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Speaker 2: good base in the run defense. So you stop the run,

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Speaker 2: you have some fun on third down.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, I'm cur we're Actually one thing we've debated here

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Speaker 1: is how they're going to use Dexter Lawrence a little bit,

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Speaker 1: right because watching in Tennessee, they didn't utilize a traditional

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Speaker 1: nose tackle as much. Right, It wasn't a guy necessarily

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Speaker 1: lined up over the center. But that's where Dexter Lawrence

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Speaker 1: has really found his groove and been a dominant player

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Speaker 1: over the last couple of years. Do you feel like

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Speaker 1: bowing to lean into that a little bit more given

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Speaker 1: the personnel at his disposal here, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I do think that it is a trend overall in

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Speaker 2: the NFL of even if we are going to be

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Speaker 2: a a four down nickel base, We're gonna find ways

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Speaker 2: to get into five man fronts, whether that's walking down

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Speaker 2: o'kike or walking down mcfaden. Just as like a you know,

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Speaker 2: a quasi edge, you're really just blitzing the sea gap

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Speaker 2: with the linebacker, but getting into that odd spacing so

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Speaker 2: that now he's shifted over maybe a shade on a

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Speaker 2: center or over top the center. I do also think

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Speaker 2: being able to have a guy that's dominant like that,

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Speaker 2: putting him into two eye or on the inside shade

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Speaker 2: of the guard, you're forcing double teams every single play,

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Speaker 2: which again, you're changing the math up front. That's where

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Speaker 2: I think he's really good, is changing the math up

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Speaker 2: front with that four down front. And really why we

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Speaker 2: saw this offseason inside linemen are especially on the defense,

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Speaker 2: are getting paid. And this is why because you're changing

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Speaker 2: the math up front.

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Speaker 1: No question. And you just put a video of on

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Speaker 1: match quarters dot com, and what are the features of

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Speaker 1: was how he tries to attack the edge of the

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Speaker 1: defense right And if again Dexter's drawing two guys inside,

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Speaker 1: he's drawing the guard to whatever side he's lined up

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Speaker 1: on this in the center, that's going to allow him

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Speaker 1: to attack that edge a little bit more so talk

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Speaker 1: about some of the real basic ways that you saw

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Speaker 1: in the preseason. I think it was the Lions game

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Speaker 1: that you looked at, right, that Shane Bowen tried to

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Speaker 1: attack the edge of what's a very very good Lions

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Speaker 1: offensive line.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I always, like, you know, I tell you

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Speaker 2: all the time in the preseason, you're seeing pretty much

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Speaker 2: what the established base is, so we're not getting a

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Speaker 2: lot of kind of you know, these classic pre snap looks,

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Speaker 2: so you're really getting an idea of like how he

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Speaker 2: wants to go about building a base defense.

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Speaker 1: Day one, day two installation type stuffs, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and I like the Lions offense just because they

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Speaker 2: do a lot of gap scheme with a lot of

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Speaker 2: twelve personnel, so you're seeing they do a lot of

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Speaker 2: pre snap movement as well, even in their base offense.

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Speaker 2: So you're seeing a lot of what a lot of

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Speaker 2: these modern offenses are doing. So what he did, you

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Speaker 2: have the classic edge pressure from the nickel where he's

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Speaker 2: coming off the edge rotating to cover three. But what

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Speaker 2: he has really proven that he is really good at

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Speaker 2: is attacking these b gaps which the modern spread offense

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Speaker 2: and really these modern offenses, that kind of where the

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Speaker 2: leverage piece is for these modern offenses where they want

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Speaker 2: to attack, and being able to use kind of these

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Speaker 2: different mixes. Like I said in the video, he used

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Speaker 2: the overhangs, which is your nickel, your down safety, and

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Speaker 2: then your your linebacker, which happens in any kind of

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Speaker 2: three by one. In the NFL is a big three

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Speaker 2: by one league, and so being able to manipulate protection,

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Speaker 2: and part of that piece is going to be Dexter

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Speaker 2: Lawrence and maybe setting him in in a three technique

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Speaker 2: to get the slide, the protection to slide his way

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Speaker 2: attack those B gaps. Having those, now you've got two

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Speaker 2: really good edges and burns with Dibbideaux where you know

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Speaker 2: the tackles are going to have to lock on him,

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Speaker 2: So it creates this natural alley in the B gap

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Speaker 2: and he really illustrated that against the Lions and.

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Speaker 1: Leading into what you're talking about here. With those two

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Speaker 1: edge players, now, I feel like they're going to get

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Speaker 1: some really good opportunities given some of the wide alignments

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Speaker 1: they're going to have, especially on third downs. Is he

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Speaker 1: going to be able to scheme up, especially if Dexter

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Speaker 1: is drawing two inside a lot of pure one on

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Speaker 1: one for Brian Burns and kevon A Tibbett off the edge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's what it goes back to, that math

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Speaker 2: problem is, Yeah, they have five offensive linemen, but if

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Speaker 2: you're gonna take two to go to Lawrence, or you're

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Speaker 2: gonna slide to Lawrence, You're you're essentially playing a four

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Speaker 2: man slide and then I'm locking one of those edges

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Speaker 2: and so they can then dictate off of that where

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Speaker 2: they want the slide to go. Just by placement alone,

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Speaker 2: you can put both of the inside guys in threes.

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Speaker 2: You could take one of the defensive ends and move

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Speaker 2: them inside to kind of put them on the guard

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Speaker 2: and then really unleash that. So he has a lot

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Speaker 2: of ability to then play around with those protection schemes.

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Speaker 2: And really that's what it is in the NFL. It's

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Speaker 2: about attacking protection and not necessarily the blitz schemes.

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Speaker 1: Now the Giants are going from the one of the

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Speaker 1: two heaviest blitz gleams in the league. Last year. We

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Speaker 1: think Martin Dale Brian Fleore is the Giants opponent of

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Speaker 1: Week one. Ironically, Enov was the other that that blitz

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Speaker 1: the ton But talking to the players this offseason. They

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Speaker 1: tell me, Yeah, it's not as aggressive as last year,

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Speaker 1: but it's not a system. This is a system where

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Speaker 1: you are even though again you're trying to get home

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Speaker 1: with four me, ma, if you're not blitzing as much,

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Speaker 1: you're trying to dictate to the offense a little bit.

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Speaker 1: So how despite the fact maybe he's not bringing blitzes

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Speaker 1: so frequently, is Shane Bowen trying to dictate some things

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Speaker 1: to the offense?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I actually I call them passive pressures because

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Speaker 2: you are not necessarily like Martindale, seven guys on the

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Speaker 2: line of scrimmage. You don't know where people are gonna

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Speaker 2: come from. Where we've got our five man six man pressures.

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Speaker 2: We're playing a lot of zero covers, a lot of man.

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Speaker 2: We're putting a lot of stress on the offense. The

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Speaker 2: kind of the inverse of that, though, is you're also

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Speaker 2: putting stress on a really young secondary, which the Giants

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Speaker 2: were last year. So playing a lot of man with

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Speaker 2: a lot of with you know, rookie corners is not

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Speaker 2: necessarily a recipe for success. So what Bowen does is

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Speaker 2: in his three years at Tennessee, they actually led the

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Speaker 2: NFL in simulated pressures. So simulator pressures are just it

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Speaker 2: looks like we're gonna blitz five or more, but we

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Speaker 2: only blit four and a lot of times going back

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Speaker 2: with like the dex lawrence, using him as a leverage

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Speaker 2: tool to get the protection you want or to get

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Speaker 2: the run that you want, and then attacking those natural

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Speaker 2: alleys like for instance, the Lions run a lot of

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Speaker 2: gap scheme. A really good way of attacking gap schemes,

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Speaker 2: which is just counterpower, is we want to attack the

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Speaker 2: B gaps. The B gaps are right where the poll

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Speaker 2: is coming from or so you're either punching the pullar

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Speaker 2: or you're chasing the pollar, and you don't necessarily have

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Speaker 2: to have five man six man pressures off of that.

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Speaker 2: The other part, the other piece of this is that

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Speaker 2: what you're seeing up front doesn't necessarily have to match

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Speaker 2: in the back. So just because we're sending something doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean we have to spin into a fire zone, which

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Speaker 2: is a cover three shell. We don't have to run

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Speaker 2: cover three behind this. So he does a really good

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Speaker 2: job of not only mixing up the the blitz patterns

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Speaker 2: and how they are doing that, but also the coverage

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Speaker 2: piece on the back, which is where that passive pressure

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Speaker 2: comes from. Of we're not gonna, you know, face melter

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Speaker 2: defense where we're sending seven guys and then we're playing

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Speaker 2: cover zero, don't cover one behind. But we're really making

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Speaker 2: the quarterback work and the protection scheme work as well.

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Speaker 1: All Right, I want to get into the coverage packages

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Speaker 1: here in a second. First I want to ask about

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Speaker 1: Bobby o'kaka, because he's gonna be the Giants green dot.

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Speaker 1: He's a great speed run and chase guy. He's not

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Speaker 1: a guy I think he wanted, you know, taking on

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Speaker 1: on some of those gap scheme plays the offensive line

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Speaker 1: pulling into the hole. He can do it, but that's

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Speaker 1: not really where you want if you want him chasing

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Speaker 1: the ball and being kept clean. Talking to Bobby, he said,

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Speaker 1: we probably aren't going to be doing quite as much

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Speaker 1: to gapping as we did last year on the Wig Martindale.

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Speaker 1: It's more of a kind of get up field penetrate

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Speaker 1: type of thing. Are they going to be able to

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Speaker 1: keep o kara k clean so they can get the

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Speaker 1: most of his skill set at mike linebacker?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I really think it comes down to the

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Speaker 2: inside play, Like Lawrence is going to have to dictate

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Speaker 2: double teams and if he can do and he can

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Speaker 2: do that, which we all are pretty much in agreeance

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Speaker 2: that he's going to be able to do that. If

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Speaker 2: he can do that and still be able to kind

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Speaker 2: of survive, then you're going to be able to keep

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Speaker 2: that second level clean. And that's really where that comes from.

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Speaker 2: Seeing a trend too. There's really kind of two ways

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Speaker 2: of looking at it. We have the Fangio system guys

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Speaker 2: and the Fangio adjacent guys that want to use these

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Speaker 2: five man fronts to create one on one blocking up front,

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Speaker 2: and then it's just kind of we're gonna win somewhere.

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Speaker 2: We don't really care about the linebacker. We're going to

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Speaker 2: keep him clean just through numbers. Then you have kind

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Speaker 2: of this, uh it's the Shanahan kind of conversion of

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Speaker 2: the Carrol system where Sala we have the Jets obviously

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Speaker 2: in that forty nine ers. The Browns are probably in

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Speaker 2: this as well, where we want wide nines with our

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Speaker 2: defensive ends, so they're going to get you mentioned it

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Speaker 2: multiple times. We want them whide, we want them rushing

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Speaker 2: up the field. But then the inside guys really have

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Speaker 2: to be a gap sound. They have to be able

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Speaker 2: to hold their leverage. And what that does is it

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Speaker 2: creates these large windows for the linebackers who can then

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Speaker 2: run through on any kind of downhill attack. But then

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Speaker 2: also they don't necessarily have to sit and react where

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Speaker 2: it's kind of more two gapping, where two gapping is

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Speaker 2: really patient, so you kind of sit sit it, go

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Speaker 2: right or sits it, sit drop, whereas this is more

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Speaker 2: or less hey open window, close it. Oh, this is

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Speaker 2: this is high hat. Okay, I'm dropping back, And so

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Speaker 2: it creates that it's just a different philosophy, but it

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Speaker 2: but Bowen really has leaned into kind of the wide nine.

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Speaker 2: Control the inside with your interior defensive.

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Speaker 3: Linemer, you're ready for a change. Payday comes early with citizens,

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Speaker 3: So go to that retreat. Knew you moves to the country.

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Speaker 3: Now you're raising goats and launching a lifestyle brand. Are

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Speaker 3: you ready for all that life brings?

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Speaker 1: Are we getting to the point now where a guy

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Speaker 1: like Dexter Lawrence might even have more value to a

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Speaker 1: defense than an elite edge player. I mean you've probably

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Speaker 1: mentioned him seven different times in six different questions. And

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Speaker 1: how he allows you to unlock so many different things?

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Speaker 1: Is that what we're heading now where the Dexter Lawrence

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Speaker 1: is the Chris Jones is those guys might end up

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Speaker 1: being more valuable to an NFL defense than maybe even

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Speaker 1: your elite edge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So the thing about the NFL that is so

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Speaker 2: foreign to college and even the high school level is

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Speaker 2: that they really don't necessarily care about a five yard run, right,

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Speaker 2: Like if you get a five yard run off. And

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Speaker 2: this sounds insane right right, because you know, if you're

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Speaker 2: sitting here on a Friday or a Saturday and you

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Speaker 2: get you're they're gashing with five yard runs like you're

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Speaker 2: pulling your hair out. You're like, we gotta get a

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Speaker 2: new DC. But in the NFL, a second and five,

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Speaker 2: a second and six, like even a second and four,

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Speaker 2: that's a passing down. So where where a guy like

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Speaker 2: Lawrence really comes in is if we can stop and

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Speaker 2: we can keep them from running the ball on first down,

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Speaker 2: or we can keep them behind the chains, A second

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Speaker 2: and seven is now we can get into a little

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Speaker 2: bit of our pressure package, or we can are kind

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Speaker 2: of our manipulation. We can now really scheme for that.

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Speaker 2: So it opens the playbook for you. It also, again

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Speaker 2: it goes back to changing the math. I think the

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Speaker 2: philosophy for gms now are the draft edges and draft

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Speaker 2: corners every draft and just at some point you're going

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Speaker 2: to hit. You just kind of cycle through them. But

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Speaker 2: interior defensive linemen, those human beings are not around like

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Speaker 2: elite interior guys just don't exist at a high level.

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Speaker 2: So when you get one, you just pay them because

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Speaker 2: they change so much. They don't get a lot of

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Speaker 2: the credit as the edges because it's not sexy. They

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Speaker 2: don't get, you know, fifteen twenty sacks as some of these,

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Speaker 2: like top level guys get, but their presence is really

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Speaker 2: changing the way that teams, especially offenses, are having to

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Speaker 2: play the game.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Dex floors at four and a hal four and

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Speaker 1: a half sacks last year. He was just as impactful

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Speaker 1: as any edge rusher that had fifteen, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's just weird for people to wrap their heads around. Then. Frankly,

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Speaker 1: look at last year draft classes too. I mean one

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Speaker 1: or two defensive tackles really and just has been very right.

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Speaker 1: They just have not been as common as guys coming

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Speaker 1: off the edge. A right, Let's talk about some of

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Speaker 1: the coverage stuff. Now, I've mentioned this a couple times already,

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Speaker 1: and please correct me if if my interpretation is wrong

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Speaker 1: that he kind of wants to have that too safety

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Speaker 1: shell at the snap and then he's gonna to try

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Speaker 1: to rotate after that to try to confuse a little

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Speaker 1: bit the post snap read from the quarterback. Right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's really kind of been a trend in

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Speaker 2: the NFL this year, really the past couple of years

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Speaker 2: is using more from a two high shell. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm a dB guy. That's kind of how I got

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Speaker 2: my start. It's so much easier playing down than it

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Speaker 2: is to play back. And then even when you're running

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Speaker 2: a Cover three, the NFL offenses are very attuned to

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Speaker 2: how to beat Cover three. It's the main coverage in

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Speaker 2: the NFL. It pretty much always has been that in

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Speaker 2: Cover one, and so for them, how do you attack

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Speaker 2: Cover three? You do it with these deep crossing routes, right,

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Speaker 2: and it's easy for the quarterback, it's right in front

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Speaker 2: of them. Well, as a defense, if I have a

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Speaker 2: guy near the box, it's harder for me to gain depth,

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Speaker 2: especially with so much play action and so much motion

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Speaker 2: now on early downs. But if I play him from depth,

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Speaker 2: by the time he's worked down to about eight yards,

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Speaker 2: he can clearly identify whether he's getting a crossing route,

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Speaker 2: it's play action anything like that within that pre snap read. Now,

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Speaker 2: like I go back, you give a little bit up

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Speaker 2: in the run game, per se, But when you have

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Speaker 2: a dominant interior guy, you know you've kind of mitigated

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Speaker 2: that risk. And I think that that's where that it's

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Speaker 2: that where you kind of want to pull that. Also,

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Speaker 2: play action from under center. The quarterback's turning his back

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Speaker 2: on the defense. The moment he turns around, it can

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Speaker 2: look completely different. Now he has to recalibrate. So elite quarterbacks,

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Speaker 2: obviously it's probably not as big of a deal, but

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Speaker 2: some of these average to look below average quarterbacks, they

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Speaker 2: have to completely recalibrate. Well. By the time that you

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Speaker 2: hold the ball for a second longer, that's when the

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Speaker 2: sacks occurred, That's when the hits on the quarterback occurred,

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Speaker 2: That's when the mistakes occurred. So that's where that comes from.

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Speaker 1: What is that secondary zone men defense split going to

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Speaker 1: look like? How much does he lead into quarters cover two,

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Speaker 1: man cover three? What is that men you going to

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Speaker 1: look like? Or is it really going to vary a

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Speaker 1: lot each week based on the opponent.

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Speaker 2: It will vary, but he has really shown he really

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Speaker 2: wants to. They've actually led the NFL out behind Actually

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Speaker 2: they're behind the Jets the last three years with the

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Speaker 2: Titans end quarters, I think you're going to see what

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Speaker 2: I think what he really wants is to have about

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Speaker 2: twenty five percent quarters, twenty five percent Cover three, twenty

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Speaker 2: five percent Cover one, and then that other twenty five

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Speaker 2: can be red zone coverages and miscellaneous coverages, and then

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Speaker 2: he does sprinkle in Cover two just because I think

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Speaker 2: everybody in the NFL has to have some sort of Tampa.

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Speaker 2: Tampa is really good when you're playing a lot, when

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Speaker 2: you play a lot of man on third and short third, medium,

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Speaker 2: it's a nice little adjustment right there. So that to me,

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Speaker 2: typically it's like a thirty thirty thirty split is what

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Speaker 2: we see for the most part. But if you look

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Speaker 2: at what he has, it's more it waivers, but it's

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Speaker 2: around that twenty five mark for all of the all

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Speaker 2: those three coverags.

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Speaker 1: Now you've mentioned some of the giant personnel on defense,

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Speaker 1: I'm with you. I think Drew Phillips his physicality, especially

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Speaker 1: in the slot, I think is going to be really

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Speaker 1: important against the run. He's feisty. Tyler Neuban again, we've

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Speaker 1: seen his a billion Minnesota. He can play that post

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Speaker 1: if you need him to. He can play half a field,

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Speaker 1: he can support against the run, he can blitz, he

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Speaker 1: can do all those things. But this is a very

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Speaker 1: young secondary. We went through this earlier in the week

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Speaker 1: on one of our shows. Their top corner, Tight Banks,

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Speaker 1: is in a second year, Quardo Flott. They're obstensive starting

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Speaker 1: second corners in his third year. Jason Pennock's just in

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Speaker 1: his fourth year and he's changed position, so he's probably

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Speaker 1: not even truly a fourth year player. Dan Belton, one

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Speaker 1: of their three safeties, is in a second year. Then

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Speaker 1: you have, of course Tyler Nuban, a rookie. So how

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Speaker 1: does this defense you think going to be able to

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Speaker 1: work with a young secondary where you know, you talk

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Speaker 1: about zones, passing guys off post, that movement, communicating. How

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Speaker 1: is that going to work with such a young group

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Speaker 1: And how quickly do you think Boonen's gonna be able

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Speaker 1: to get these guys on the same page.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do think that that's going to be

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Speaker 2: part of the growing pains early, But I don't think

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Speaker 2: that this is going to necessarily be a super complex

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Speaker 2: defense in terms of the way that it's already set up,

434
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,920
Speaker 2: like it's pretty much you know, the term for it's

435
00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 2: like modular defense, where the front has there on a

436
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,639
Speaker 2: certain front, the coverage behind it is kind of in

437
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 2: there as well, but we run different pressure packages with

438
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,919
Speaker 2: different different coverages. And so to me, I think like

439
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 2: being multiple looks a little scary. But the way that

440
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 2: now a lot of these modern especially the really good coaches,

441
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 2: are teaching it is there. It's kind of like interchangeable parts,

442
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 2: is it. Hey, this technique is similar to this, or

443
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 2: we're using like as systems to teach it. And so

444
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 2: when you want to be multiple like that, a lot

445
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,639
Speaker 2: of times like it. A lot of people see that

446
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,639
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, well, you know, you're not really a

447
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,360
Speaker 2: master of anything, Like you're just kind of the we

448
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 2: do a bunch of stuff, but we're not really We

449
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 2: don't hang our hat on it. You know. The Browns

450
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 2: are over there running nothing but cover one. Like at

451
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 2: least they're good, you know. And so I think what happens,

452
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 2: you know, for a defense like that when you're young,

453
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,480
Speaker 2: is you will go through a couple of growing pants.

454
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 2: But for the most part, I think that the base

455
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 2: is already established, and really you're taking the pressure off

456
00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,360
Speaker 2: of this young secondary by not playing man all that time.

457
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 2: I think man tip typically tends to be the easy

458
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 2: button for a lot of people, but you forget that

459
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 2: when you are young, you still haven't kind of adjusted

460
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,640
Speaker 2: to the speed of the NFL. And so now when

461
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 2: do you ever get a breather? Right when? Can I

462
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,920
Speaker 2: quarters is really easy? I just got to stack my receivers.

463
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,159
Speaker 2: Can't let them deep, you know, play top down or

464
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,360
Speaker 2: have underneath covers like cover two, Like you know, I'm

465
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 2: really just reading the slot. If it comes out, I

466
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 2: snap down on top of it. I know I have

467
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,879
Speaker 2: safety help over the top, like there's different things that

468
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 2: you can do, and especially from playing from depth like

469
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,360
Speaker 2: he and like he wants to play, that also takes

470
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 2: a lot of stress off of it too. So I

471
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 2: think that it's kind of that we're giving the confidence

472
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,199
Speaker 2: back to the secondary. We may have a couple of

473
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 2: bus but for the most part, we're giving that confidence

474
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 2: back to these young guys.

475
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,199
Speaker 1: With the way he runs his zone, how much of

476
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 1: their quarters and zone stuff turns into a match principal

477
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:53,959
Speaker 1: deal where it kind of turns into man to man

478
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: a little bit, or is this more of a kind

479
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 1: of spot drop and player area type of situation.

480
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 2: The easiest way to tell this is where the nickels located.

481
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 2: So like if in cover three, for instance, if the

482
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,479
Speaker 2: nickels typically outside of the receiver, then we're playing some

483
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: sort of match principles. We're trying to funnel it to

484
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 2: the post safety if he's inside out, like now, we're

485
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 2: normally working spot drops. So what you'll see is probably

486
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 2: on bass downs it's going to be more match heavy.

487
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 2: When behind pressures, it's going to be more probably spot drop.

488
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 2: And that's just that little nix right there. If a

489
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 2: lot of times in the NFL, if you want to

490
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 2: get real match heavy with it, like you really want

491
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 2: to lean into that, you're just going to play cover

492
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 2: one anyway, because that's essentially what it ends up. And

493
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, if you go for verts,

494
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 2: it's typically going to turn into a match at some point.

495
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 2: So it's kind of a depends on what you get.

496
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 2: But for the most part, blitz is going to be

497
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 2: zone and then kind of base downs will probably be

498
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 2: a little bit more of a match principle to it.

499
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 1: Oh, so really you see thing in his blitzes. A

500
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: lot of people think blitz you're in man. You think

501
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 1: a lot of when he blitzes, he's going to be

502
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 1: more of a kind of keep everything in front of

503
00:22:58,480 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: you kind of spot zone type of deal.

504
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially if it's not actually man coverage behind it.

505
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 2: So if you're seeing done behind it, and a lot

506
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 2: of times what you don't want, For instance, I don't

507
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 2: want you know, I don't want Brian Burns trying to

508
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 2: carry the vertical hook from the first level, Like, I

509
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 2: don't want him to get in a situation where he's

510
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 2: got to run with a slot defender. So a lot

511
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 2: of times what you do is you just put a

512
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 2: safety on top of that. So that's where these quarter

513
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 2: pressures have become really popular, is because we're seeing these

514
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 2: guys get burned out in these seam routes and it's

515
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,199
Speaker 2: not really their fault. I mean, you know, Thibodeau and

516
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 2: Burns are great athletes, but you match them up against, like,

517
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 2: you know, somebody that's running and burning through the slot.

518
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 2: The average third receiver in the NFL is still going

519
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 2: to be faster than most defensive ends who have to

520
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 2: start move and then go with it. So that to

521
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 2: me is where the spot drop mentality comes, especially on

522
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,679
Speaker 2: these second and third downs that are long and we

523
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: want to send some pressure because we want eyes on

524
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 2: the quarterback. We want to attack the ball in the air.

525
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: All right, let's lock in real quick before we say goodbye, Cody,

526
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: And this has been fantastic, a great conversation. You're going

527
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,239
Speaker 1: to play a Vikings team on Sunday which comes from

528
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 1: the McVeigh school with with Kevin O'Connell new quarterback and

529
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: sam Donold do I think it's a chance to have

530
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 1: a pretty good year playing in that system. We saw

531
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: Nick Mullins did then the last year of very productive games.

532
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 1: How do you think Shane Bowen's scheme is going to

533
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 1: adjust to what Kevin O'Connell tries to do and what

534
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 1: that Vikings offense is going to try and do.

535
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's set up to be pretty even

536
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 2: and I think you're gonna see a lot of quarters.

537
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 2: I think you're gonna see a lot of cover too,

538
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 2: just to be have hard edges on both sides. I

539
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 2: think what we talked about having that edge pressure is

540
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 2: going to be really important, especially with the wide zone

541
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: and you know this crew has been dabbling and getting

542
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: back into more power schemes. So again we're right there

543
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 2: with the pressures that we have right there. You know,

544
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: the thing that you're going to have to do is

545
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 2: they are going to feed justin Jefferson regardless. And really,

546
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 2: what I think where Jefferson has set himself apart from

547
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 2: pretty much everybody other than Tyreek Kill, is just that

548
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter zone man. So what you have to

549
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 2: be able to do is just survive the shots to Jefferson.

550
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 2: Just understand that he's going to probably get one hundred yards,

551
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 2: but we can't allow him to have touchdowns. And I

552
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 2: think that's what's going to be the key is we

553
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 2: can't allow these explosive plays, which is really essentially what

554
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: Bowen is trying to do with the scheme that he

555
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 2: has four down. Let him to the clock. If they

556
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 2: want to run the ball a little bit, We're okay.

557
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 2: Eventually they're going to get a two yard run or

558
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 2: a three yard runner. We're going to tackle him for loss.

559
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 2: Play some quarters behind it, play cover two when we

560
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 2: need to to kind of keep that shelf defense, and

561
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: then just on early downs, be really smart about where

562
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 2: we implement our cover three and doing it from debth

563
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 2: so that we're cutting off those crossing routes.

564
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: I mean, that's really the base principle of good defense

565
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: is now right. Don't let a team gorge you in

566
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: the run. You know, if they get you know, average

567
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: three and a half, four even four yards per carry,

568
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: your fine. But it's really all about limiting explosive plays

569
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: now right. And I feel like leading into quarters a lot,

570
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: that's pretty much what Bowen's trying to do here. Have

571
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: dexter Lawrence, lead a lighter front to do well enough

572
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: against the run, but do not let guys beat you

573
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 1: with explosive plays.

574
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and really, the way the modern game is now

575
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 2: is like you run to win the game. You don't,

576
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: but you're not gonna win running the ball. I think

577
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: that that's kind of where we've got and that's where

578
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 2: you know, we kind of had that. You know, running

579
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 2: backs don't matter. What was like five years ago people

580
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 2: are like, oh, analytics, running backs don't matter. We need

581
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: to pass every down and people like, oh, it's gonna transcend. No,

582
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: no, no no. With football is always going to be a

583
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 2: physical game, running the ball is always going to be important,

584
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 2: especially as we know, like play action matters like things

585
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 2: early down, but in being able to establish just some

586
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 2: sort of physicality throughout the game, being able to control

587
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 2: the clock when you are ahead and when you do

588
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 2: need to win the game. But in terms of just

589
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 2: like winning the game, you have to be able to

590
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 2: throw the ball and when you you know, dampen those

591
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 2: explosive plays, especially these offenses that are used to these

592
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 2: these explosive plays, and you keep a damper on that,

593
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: it frustrates them. And especially with a quarterback that's pretty

594
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 2: much average to below average, you're forcing him to win

595
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 2: the game, which is what you want, instead of being

596
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 2: able to control the clock.

597
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: All right, final question, just getting back to Justin Jefferson.

598
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, and we saw when the Giants played

599
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: the Vikings at the end of the twenty twenty two

600
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: season in the playoffs with Big Martindale, they were putting

601
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: a safety over the top, they were putting a linebacker

602
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 1: to take away those deep incuts. They had three guys

603
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 1: in that zone sometimes to not let Justin Jefferson beat him.

604
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: How does Bowen generally like to work against top wide receivers.

605
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 1: Does he to go over the top with the safety

606
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: does he like to do bracket how does he try

607
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: to take away other teams top wide receivers or does

608
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: he just kind of stick to his principles and run

609
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: what he runs.

610
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's also a trend now, I call

611
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 2: it targeted coverage. So we're used to like the old

612
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: school quarter quarter half, but now we've kind of been

613
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: People have been playing around with where do you run

614
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 2: the cover two side because you're basically getting a zone double.

615
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 2: On top of that, you have a corner that can

616
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 2: be physical in trail, you're funneling him to a safety

617
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 2: if you have a good nickel that can handle the

618
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 2: number two where you can then carry that vertical hooks,

619
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: so you can really do it. I think we're going

620
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 2: to get a lot of zone doubles. I think if

621
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: you play a lot of man a lot of times too,

622
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: like people are like, oh well just play man and

623
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: then shade a safety over top of him, and that

624
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily work. When you play basically a motion offense

625
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: like we have with the Vikings that use a lot

626
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 2: of pre snap motion, there's a lot of moving parts,

627
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: guys going in all different directions. That doesn't necessarily work

628
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 2: in that sense. So that's where I think these zone

629
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: doubles having some sort of way to play cover two

630
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 2: over top of Jefferson at all times. And then also,

631
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 2: you know, when you do run your quarters, make sure

632
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: that we are we are, he's catching it underneath of us,

633
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: tackle him, live to play another day. All right.

634
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: Final question is you just mentioned motion. When you see

635
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: teams do their pre snap motion, are we going to

636
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: see the Giants do a lot of shifting with their

637
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: linebackers and ends to accommodate that. So you're on the

638
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: you know, week strong and all that stuff. And the

639
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: second part of the question, when you have the shifts

640
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: in motions at the snow app are we going to

641
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: see a lot of you know, communication trading guys off

642
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: or are we going to see guys following and trailing

643
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: in some of those motion situations.

644
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is actually why quarters has become so

645
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: popular in the NFL. And even just Cover two just

646
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: a little bit, just because you're an even defense and

647
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: so you have two bait, You basically have two safeties

648
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 2: on each half, you have two corners outside any kind

649
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 2: of motion can be dealt with. Even if we run

650
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: cover three, I'm still doing it from the table. We

651
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 2: can still get our rotations. We don't have a lot

652
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 2: of moving parts. If we get tied and shift, all

653
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: we are literally doing is going from a two eye

654
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 2: to a three, so you're going from inside shade to

655
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 2: an outside shade of the guard. Very limited movement. Our

656
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: ends aren't moving, our backers are in thirties. Basically they're

657
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: on the outside shade or stacking the guard. So what

658
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: ends up happening in this is you've kind of made

659
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: it hard for the offense to really use motion as

660
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 2: a leverage tool, and so that keeps you pretty much safe.

661
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: Is safe in that.

662
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: Sense, Cody, this has been fantastic. Tell the folks where

663
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: they can find other great knowledge on D defense and

664
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: everything everything else you're doing.

665
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, So if you're interested in defensematch quarters dot com

666
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: it's a place to go. I've got links to pretty

667
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 2: much everything. I've got everything from clinics, books to articles

668
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: that long form articles that you can read. And then

669
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 2: obviously I'm on social media with links on that. So

670
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: head over to match quarters and make sure you subscribe.

671
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: Cody, fantastic. The week one of the regular season's final

672
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: here it feels like it's taken forever to get here,

673
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: and now we're in a four month sprint, which is

674
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: always the best time here. Thanks so much of the time, man,

675
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: and enjoy the season.

676
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate it. You too.

677
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 3: You love turf, You're good at it. So you start

678
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 3: a turf fiz. Business grows, your savings grow, become the

679
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 3: most celebrated name in turf. Are you ready for all

680
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 3: that life brings?

681
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: All? Right? Now we turn our attention to the Giants

682
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: opponent and don't forget Giants. Huddle is brought to you

683
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: by Citizens, Official Bank of the Giants. From game data

684
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: celebrations to your everyday financial needs, Big Blue fans can

685
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Speaker 1: get the most out of every moment with Citizens. Learn

686
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: more at Citizens bank dot com. Selet Giants, and now

687
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: we joined by Matthew Coller. He joined us earlier in

688
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: the year to talk a little bit about his book

689
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: on PFF. He also covers the Vikings. Matthew, before we

690
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: get started, to tell the folks, we think it finds

691
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: your great coverage of the Minnesota Vikings.

692
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, Purpleinsider dot com is everything you need. You know,

693
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 4: we all try to be on all the platforms I

694
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,239
Speaker 4: was thinking about. I don't know if other people are

695
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 4: fans of the office, but remember the woof and how

696
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 4: it sends you an email and a fax and all

697
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 4: those things at once. I feel like that's what I

698
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 4: do now. It's just like you can find me here, here, here, here, here,

699
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 4: and here, But Purple Insider dot com is probably the

700
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 4: best place for everything.

701
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,719
Speaker 1: Do you also have the collar of thoughts at blogspot

702
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: dot com like creed? Now?

703
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 4: You know, I probably did at one point have a

704
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 4: blog spot where I was trying to, you know, practice

705
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 4: writing articles or something when I was in college.

706
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think that exists anymore. All right. Uh,

707
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: we're just so the fans know. We're recording this on

708
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: Thursday morning, so that's kind of where the information is

709
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: the most is gonna get posted on Thursday. Latest on

710
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: Joan Addison. He's the one guy I think that everyone

711
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: kind of keep an eye on. In terms of the

712
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: Vikings injury Reporteah.

713
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 4: Absolutely he was limited in practice yesterday. Just from the

714
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 4: fifteen minutes that we get to see of practice, looked

715
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 4: like he was moving around okay. And then when we

716
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 4: talked to Kevin O'Connell, he was positive about his chances.

717
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 4: He talked about getting him ramped up a little bit

718
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 4: more as the week goes along, so I would expect

719
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 4: that he might be limited to some extent again for

720
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 4: the next two practices, but it sounds like everything is

721
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 4: trending for him toward playing, which is a really good

722
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 4: thing for the Vikings because they don't have a safety

723
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 4: net with the wide receiver room like they did when

724
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 4: kJ Osbourne was here. He signed with the Patriots in

725
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,239
Speaker 4: the offseason, and that's not a household name, but he

726
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 4: was a guy who could get fifty to sixty catches

727
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 4: five hundred, six hundred yards in a season, and if

728
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 4: he had to be bumped up to wide receiver two,

729
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 4: he could absolutely do it. Now, if you go past

730
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 4: the number two wide receiver, you haverent Sherfield, who's bounced

731
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 4: around the league, Jalen Naylor who is also banged up

732
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 4: with an ankle injury and we'll see if he's gonna play.

733
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 4: Christian Jackson, who was a really good camp story but

734
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 4: has I think two NFL receptions, So they need Jordan

735
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 4: Addison to be healthy for this game.

736
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and obviously no TG Hawkinson either, who's still dealing

737
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: with the recovery from his really bad injury at the

738
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: end of last year, So we spoke back in I guess, gosh,

739
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: it was probably June, right. We both thought that Sam

740
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: Donald would start the year as the starter, and now

741
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: he kind of has to because JJ McCarthy is out.

742
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: So what has the Sam Donald experience been like throughout

743
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: camp watching him with the first team? And do you

744
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: think there is a full trust there with Kevin O'Connor

745
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: where he's just handing him the offense and he's gonna

746
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: run this thing as though he has Kirk Cousins like

747
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: he did last year.

748
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's gonna be a lot different than

749
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 4: it was with Kirk Cousins. Where if you go back

750
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 4: and look at the game logs with Kirk Cousins, and

751
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 4: you saw this in the twenty twenty two two games

752
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 4: that the Vikings and Giants played, they threw the football

753
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 4: a lot. It was a pass first and then passed

754
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 4: some more and then pass a little bit more. With

755
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 4: Kirk Cousins, I was looking at his game logs and

756
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 4: found that sixteen out of Kirk cousins twenty five games

757
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 4: with Kevin O'Connell, he threw thirty five passes or more so,

758
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 4: he really leaned into the Kirk I don't know if

759
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 4: that's what you want to do with Sam Darnold now

760
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 4: during practice throughout the summer, I can see why people

761
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 4: keep giving Sam darnld chances to be an NFL starter. Talented,

762
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 4: he is extremely, extremely talented. The arm talent down the

763
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 4: field looking for explosive plays is exceptional. He had some

764
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 4: really wow wing practices, especially when throwing to Justin Jefferson.

765
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 4: But then you also saw when we had joint practices

766
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 4: with the Cleveland Browns, where there's some reasons why he

767
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 4: has bounced around the league. One of the things I

768
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 4: think with the middle of the field, reading the field

769
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 4: is difficult for him. At times when people get around

770
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 4: his feet. He gets a little bit antsy, as a

771
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 4: lot of quarterbacks do, but I think he gets more

772
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 4: antsy or struggles to keep his eyes down field and

773
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 4: kind of just the ball into traffic sometimes and that

774
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 4: results in interceptions past breakups. And so I think that

775
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 4: Kevin O'Connell has had a huge sample size to understand

776
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 4: the strengths and weaknesses of Sam Donald and to be

777
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 4: able to curate his offense rather than just trying to say,

778
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 4: all right, just play Kirk Cousins. Because they're so different.

779
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 4: Kirk Cousins doesn't have the big arm, but yet was

780
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 4: very accurate, was extremely good at hanging in the pocket

781
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 4: and delivering, you know, accurate passes over the middle. Anticipation

782
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 4: throws were great for kirk Cousins, whereas I think Donald

783
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 4: just wants to let a rip. And I also think

784
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 4: now they have a much better running game to play

785
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 4: off of, which will be very important with Aaron Jones.

786
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 4: So you're going to see a different offense than the

787
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 4: last time the Vikings face the Giants. But also you

788
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 4: know when you look around at what Sam Donald's gonna have,

789
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 4: assuming that Addison will play, and a better offensive line

790
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 4: than he's ever had, better receiver certainly, and justin Jefferson

791
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 4: than he's ever had, better number two receiver when Hawkinson

792
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 4: comes back, better tight end. Eventually you can get talked into, Hey,

793
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 4: when you look at those Carolina and Jets teams he

794
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 4: played for, it was nowhere close to this, and you

795
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 4: could see him playing a lot more competently than he

796
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 4: ever has before. So I think he had a very

797
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 4: good camp, was better than even I expected. But now,

798
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 4: of course got to go do it in the regular

799
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 4: season to prove that, but I can see why people

800
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 4: keep running Sam Darnold back out there.

801
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: You know, I feel like I'm not going to ask

802
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: you a question about Justin Jefferson because I don't know

803
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 1: what else we can say other than he's just freaking awesome.

804
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: I rewatched a lot of his tape earlier in the week,

805
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 1: and he's unbelievable. You can throw something in there on JJ.

806
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: Then maybe we don't know if you want, But you

807
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: mentioned the run game there, which I think is interesting.

808
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: The Viki's had one of the least efficient run games

809
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: in the league last year. They couldn't really do anything.

810
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: They bring in Aaron Jones, who went healthy, is a

811
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: really good back. Is there a confidence level that the

812
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: running game will be better? And what is that run

813
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: game going to look like a lot of his own stuff?

814
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: Are they leaning into some of that gap stuff that

815
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: some of the other McVay disciples are. What do you

816
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: think this run game is gonna look like? Yeah?

817
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 4: I mean Aaron Jones is a massive upgrade from what

818
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,919
Speaker 4: they had an Alexander Madison. Madison was a guy who

819
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 4: was a quality number two that they tried to push

820
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 4: into a role that was a little over his head.

821
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 4: Aaron Jones is a straight up baller. I mean, you

822
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 4: look at all time yards per carry, Aaron Jones is

823
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 4: way up there on the list. He averages the same

824
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 4: yards per carry as Barry Sanders for his career, five

825
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 4: point zero yards per carry. That's crazy and not surprising

826
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 4: to me, of course, because he throttled the Vikings every

827
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 4: time they played against him when he would come to

828
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 4: US Bank Stadium or at lambeau Field. But what you

829
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 4: see from him is a guy who is the older

830
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 4: running back. It's always a concern. Now maybe Tiki Barber

831
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 4: would say, you could be a thirty year old running

832
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 4: back could be pretty good, but there's always the concern

833
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 4: that somebody's gonna fall off at that age. I think

834
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 4: what they have with Aaron Jones, though, is a guy

835
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 4: who doesn't necessarily live on you're burst. This isn't a

836
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 4: if you remember Chris Johnson for Back of the Day,

837
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 4: he ran that four to two, but as soon as

838
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 4: he didn't run a four to two, he wasn't the same.

839
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 4: This is more of a Mac truck at times who

840
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 4: can plow over people. He's also extremely crafty and I

841
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 4: think he sees the field extremely well. He sees blocks

842
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,240
Speaker 4: develop before they're going to happen, and then he catches

843
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 4: the ball really well out of the backfield, so he

844
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 4: kind of sees the matrix as a running back rather

845
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 4: than just running by people, and I think that that

846
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 4: could help with his longevity. The other thing is too,

847
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 4: that as soon as the Vikings signed him, they had

848
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 4: a plan formulated for him throughout training camp in the

849
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 4: offseason to make sure that by week one he was

850
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 4: one hundred percent healthy, And so far as I could tell,

851
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 4: he is that he took some practices off as veterans should.

852
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 4: He's got a routine before, he's got a routine after

853
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 4: to try to stretch as much as he can and

854
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 4: work on some of the previous areas that he's had

855
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 4: injuries before. And they're doing everything they can to get

856
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 4: the best version of Aaron Joe zones. And if they do,

857
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 4: then after being one of the worst running teams in

858
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 4: the league last two years, they could be one of

859
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 4: the better running teams in the league because their backup

860
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 4: also has a lot of talent Ty Chandler, and I

861
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 4: think those guys are going to mix and match. And

862
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 4: then to add to that, they really struggled at left

863
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 4: guard last year to run block. Ezra Cleveland at first

864
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 4: was their left guard, and then Dalton Reister, who people know,

865
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 4: but he's more of a pass protector. They've replaced him

866
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 4: with a six foot seven guy who weighs about three twenty,

867
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 4: big giant, jumbo Elliott looking dude looking to road grade.

868
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 4: So I think they want to do more of that

869
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 4: gap stuff. They call it kind of the mid zone.

870
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 4: They like to run between the guard and the tackle,

871
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 4: but you can do almost anything with Aaron Jones, and

872
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 4: I think they've put a lot of thought into what

873
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 4: is our run scheme really going to be because it

874
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 4: was very scattershot throw stuff at the wall last year.

875
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 4: So I think they've made some internal changes for even

876
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 4: just how they design that run game, and then just

877
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 4: to even go even farther on this, because this has

878
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 4: been a deep Purple Insider investigates over the summer. How

879
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,959
Speaker 4: will they run the ball better? I think they're gonna

880
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 4: play two tight ends a lot more, Johnny Munt and

881
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 4: Josh Oliver. Oliver's one of the better run blocking tight

882
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 4: ends in the league. I could see a lot of

883
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 4: big personnel in this game from the Vikings.

884
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 1: Interesting, all right, let's jump in to the defensive side.

885
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: Do you feel confident the defensive personnel has been improved

886
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: upon from last year because it was rough at times

887
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: last year? And how do you think that's going to

888
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,919
Speaker 1: impact Brian Flores's approach in terms of how he runs

889
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: his defense.

890
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think what Giants fans are going to see

891
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 4: is an incredibly different defense than the last time they

892
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 4: played the Vikings. I mean, night and day. The personnel

893
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 4: is completely different, the scheme is wildly different. I don't

894
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 4: think Daniel Jones can use that game to prep although

895
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 4: maybe to hype himself up because he played so well

896
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 4: against the Vikings in those two games. But they have

897
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 4: really become a much deeper defense with the additions that

898
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 4: they made this offseason because last year Brian Flores was

899
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 4: inheriting what was left over for him from.

900
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: Ed Dona Tell.

901
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 4: But now he's been able to bring in the guys

902
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 4: that he wanted for this defense, and so the outside

903
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 4: linebackers are more his style, the quicker, the undersized guys

904
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 4: as opposed to, Hey, Danil Hunter, you have to do

905
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 4: all the pass rushing. Now they've got Jonathan Gernard Andrew

906
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,720
Speaker 4: Van Ginkle. Two day one free agent signings Dallas Turner.

907
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,439
Speaker 4: It will be very interesting to see how they mix

908
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 4: him in. He took a lot of first team reps

909
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 4: in the summer, which I think is a good sign

910
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 4: for him, and his quickness is really something different. You

911
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 4: don't get drafted in the first round for no reason,

912
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 4: but there is an element of athleticism there with Dallas

913
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 4: Turner that goes above and beyond for that role. So

914
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 4: how do they mix him in. They've improved a little

915
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 4: bit on the defensive line and the cornerbacks, even though

916
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 4: it's one of their weaker groups. Last year it was

917
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 4: maybe the worst cornerback group in the entire league. And

918
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 4: they bring in Stefan Gilmour, who I think will be

919
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 4: a big, big upgrade from what they've had before, Shack

920
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 4: Griffin as well, and then they have a strong linebacker group.

921
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 4: They have a strong safety group. So I think that

922
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 4: this defense as far as just talent across the board,

923
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 4: and they are completely healthy on this unit. I mean,

924
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 4: we're looking at a team that could be in the

925
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 4: top ten. The schedule is not easy, but as far

926
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 4: as it pertains to this game, yeah it is. It's

927
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 4: going to be a wildly improved defense in the last

928
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 4: time they faced the Giants.

929
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: And we still expect still Brian Flores crazy blitz packages

930
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: showing eight dropping six dropping eight like and just depending

931
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 1: on how you know from play to play, he's going

932
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: to show a lot of different looks.

933
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, the last time you and I talked,

934
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 4: we talked about how a team's scheme using a lot

935
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 4: of the data and stuff, and I'm sure the data

936
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 4: was wild to look at for teams behind the scenes

937
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 4: last year.

938
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 1: What is he doing?

939
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 4: I think it will be less madness this year because

940
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,399
Speaker 4: the reason. I don't know if you've ever read Doug

941
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 4: Farrar's book, The Genius of Desperation. It's great, Yeah, great,

942
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 4: great book, and there was a lot of genius of

943
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 4: desperation in the Vikings defense last year. I don't think

944
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 4: that Brian Flores wants to blitz that much or wants

945
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 4: to drop eight that much. It was that's just the

946
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 4: best thing he could do when he only had really

947
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 4: one pass rusher. And now that he has numerous options here,

948
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,919
Speaker 4: Blake Cashman can also rush as well. They signed him

949
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 4: as a free agent. Ivan Pace is a good rusher,

950
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 4: so is Josh Mattelis so they can bring it from

951
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 4: a lot of different places. I think last year they

952
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 4: were just who can we blitz? How can we do

953
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 4: something here? I think they want to rush for more often.

954
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 4: I also think they want to play man coverage more often.

955
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 4: Stefan Gilmour was I believe, the tenth highest graded man

956
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 4: coverage corner last year, and he's always been really good

957
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 4: at that. Last year they had to play a lot

958
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 4: of zone just because they didn't have guys who could

959
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 4: play effective man coverage. Now they went and got a

960
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 4: couple of corners who can do that, and I think

961
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 4: that will bring it back to normal ish. It's never

962
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 4: going to be normal with Brian Flores, we know that,

963
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 4: but normal ish will be this defense I think more

964
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 4: than just blitz or drop everyone.

965
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: All right, final question. You don't have to give me

966
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: a score if you don't want to. If you want to, great,

967
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: How do you think this game is going to do?

968
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: What do you think it's gonna look like? I think

969
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: we could be in line for a bit of a

970
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: high scoring affair on Sunday, to be honest with you.

971
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting because I think most people would probably

972
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 4: say the defenses are gonna be ahead of the offenses

973
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 4: here considering Dexter Lawrence, where everyone here is expecting Dexter

974
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 4: Lawrence to wreck the game as he did in the playoffs,

975
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 4: and the addition of Brian Burns also that battle with

976
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 4: him and Christian Dearrisaw is going to be phenomenal to

977
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,919
Speaker 4: watch those two go at it. I lean a little

978
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 4: bit more toward that. I think the Vikings want to

979
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 4: run the ball more and look for an explosive here

980
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 4: or there off play action, and if they can win

981
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 4: the game twenty one pin seventeen, I think they would

982
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 4: be pretty happy with that rather than maybe some of

983
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 4: the shootout style games they played with Kirk Cousins. I

984
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 4: tend to lean toward the defenses are going to be

985
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 4: a little ahead here. But the thing about Week one

986
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 4: is I think it's always Week one advantage offense because

987
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 4: defenses don't know the new wrinkles that are going to

988
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 4: be thrown in. I'm sure Brian Dabeles got his little

989
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 4: package of plays that he's no ever used before that

990
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 4: he wants to throw out there. I guarantee that I

991
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 4: have a lot of respect for him as a head coach.

992
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 4: So but I think that these are two teams that

993
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 4: both also are coming into this season knowing that nobody

994
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 4: really thinks either one of them is going to be great.

995
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 4: But when you look at their roster, there's more talent

996
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 4: than maybe they're giving credit for. I think that goes

997
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 4: for both teams. So maybe maybe a little edgier between both,

998
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,919
Speaker 4: a little motivation to win this one.

999
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you what, Matt, I learned something today

1000
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: that maybe the Vikings are going to lead into a

1001
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: little bit of a different offensive style here, and you're

1002
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: not going to have that kind of you know, free

1003
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: flowing offensive attack. Appreciate the time my friend enjoyed the

1004
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 1: game on Sunday, and we'll talk soon.

1005
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, great to catch up with the John. We'll talk soon.

1006
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 4: Appreciate it man.

1007
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: That's the Giants Total Podcast, brought to you by Citizens,

1008
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: the official bank of the Giants. Citizens will do an

1009
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: a seven hundred and fifty dollars for the Giants Foundation

1010
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 1: for each scoring drive during the twenty twenty four season.

1011
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: Learn more at citizensbank dot com slash Giants. Thank you

1012
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 1: to our guest today, I am John Schmulk. We'll see

1013
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: you next time on the GIHNS Total Podcast.