1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: I never thought of staying. I never thought that this 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: was what I wanted. But MIT is really honest to 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: be a very special place, and I've been here for 4 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: forty years for that reason. 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 2: From Fudromedia and PRX, It's Latino USA. I'm Maria Posa 6 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 2: today a conversation with Venezuelan born Raphael Rife, whose tenure 7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 2: as president of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology is coming 8 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 2: to a close. 9 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 3: For over ten years. 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: Raphael Rife has been the only Latino president of a 11 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 2: top us university. In fact, the school he leads, the 12 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 2: Massachusetts Institute of Technology, widely known simply as MIT, is 13 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 2: ranked number two, only behind Princeton. Rife's journey to MIT's 14 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 2: helm is a long and unexpffected one. His Jewish parents, 15 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 2: born in Eastern Europe, fled the continent during Hitler's rise 16 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: and increasing anti Semitism. In the late nineteen thirties. They 17 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: escaped to South America, eventually settling as refugees in Venezuela, 18 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 2: where Rife was born. After studying electrical engineering, he applied 19 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 2: to Stanford University in California for his doctorate, which he 20 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 2: got in nineteen seventy nine. After achieving far more than 21 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 2: his parents, who were denied these opportunities by their challenging circumstances. 22 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 2: Rife was ready to return home to Venezuela, but something 23 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: would change his plans, and his future mit invited him 24 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: for an interview. It would be the beginning of an 25 00:01:50,920 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: engagement that would last over forty years. An immigrant by choice, 26 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 2: unlike many in his home country of Venezuela who have 27 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 2: been forced to flee, just as Rife's parents once did too. 28 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 2: This year alone, more than one hundred and fifty thousand 29 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 2: Venezuelan migrants and refugees have arrived at the US Mexico border. 30 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 4: Joe Manzula no John recommend. 31 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 5: Laxle. 32 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 3: Venezuelans now account for roughly half of all migrants traveling 33 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 3: through Latin America, and more than seven million are estimated 34 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 3: to be living as migrants and refugees. 35 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: Rife's own family history and the harsh reality of his 36 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: countrymen and country women have made him a vocal supporter 37 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: of immigrants, particular of those who like him, have sought 38 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 2: to continue their education in the US. When Donald Trump 39 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 2: imposed an anti immigrant travel band in twenty seventeen, Raife 40 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: spoke up against it. 41 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: We will not be able to compete globally, particularly not 42 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: be able to compete with a worthy opponent, a competer 43 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: as China if we don't have the help from talent. 44 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 4: From all over the world. 45 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 2: And when the former president tried to deport international students 46 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: amid the COVID nineteen pandemic, MIT under Rife's leadership, joined 47 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: Harvard in a lawsuit against ICE and the Department of 48 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: Homeland Security. As president of MIT, Rife can look back 49 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 2: with pride and his push to invest in innovation. Under 50 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 2: his watch, MIT created a new business incubator to advance 51 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: scientific and technological change. 52 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 4: So here is the idea today. 53 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 6: As you just saw, MIT is launching a separate entity 54 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 6: called the Engine. The Engine will support tough tech firms 55 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 6: working on big societal problems. 56 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 2: But he also had to lead the university through many 57 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 2: challenges from the coronavirus pandemic. 58 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: L Mundo a cambiallol, Cambiello, Cambio and too. 59 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 3: Momentos to sexual assault on campus. 60 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 6: The most important work is up to all of us. 61 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 6: We need to actively build a culture that threats sexual harassment, 62 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 6: coersion and assault us out of bounds. Unthinkable for anyone 63 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 6: of any age in any context. 64 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 2: Earlier this year, Ripe announced his decision to leave MIT's leadership. 65 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: His departure would only reduce diversity in all levels of 66 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 2: higher education. There will no longer be a Latino at 67 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 2: the helm of a top school in the US. This 68 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,559 Speaker 2: comes at a time when government data shows that black 69 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 2: and Latino and Latina students are less represented in elite 70 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: schools today than they were decades ago, and the Supreme 71 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 2: Court could soon decide to end affirmative Action policies President 72 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 2: established over forty years ago with the intent of promoting 73 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 2: diversity and racial integration today, in our conversation with Raphael Rife, 74 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: we look at how his immigrant background shaped his career 75 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 2: and what his message is for Latina and Latino students 76 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 2: who want to pursue higher education. Before we start, I'd 77 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: like to know how I should address you, like you know, 78 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: President Leo. 79 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 3: Rafael, what do you prefer? 80 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: Well, Maria, if you allow me to call you Maria, 81 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: I would love it if you were. 82 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 4: To call me Raphael. That's my name. 83 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 2: So Raphael officially, welcome to Latino USA, and tell me 84 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 2: why is it important for you someone who holds this 85 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 2: position The president of MIT. Why is it important for 86 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 2: you to just be like, hey, no, no, no, no. 87 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: I like people to call me Raphael. 88 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: What it matters to me because I like to treat 89 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: everybody with respect, and I'd like. 90 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 4: To treat everybody like we're equal. 91 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: And if I have a title and I insist that 92 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: others call me by that title, that means me putting 93 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: some distance between me and another person, and I don't 94 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: like to do that. 95 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 2: Rafael. I'm meeting you for the first time now. But 96 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 2: this notion of kind of RESPECTO mutual for humanity. I 97 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: see the human in you, and from the get go 98 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: there is mutual respect. So talk to me about why 99 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 2: this notion of mutual respect is so deeply important to you. 100 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 4: Well, it is. 101 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: To me very emotional. It's very personal. It's been like 102 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: that all my life and I don't see that ever changing. 103 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: It's very much part of who I am, and I 104 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: think it comes from I come from a very humble, 105 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: modest family with very little material resources, and I remember 106 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: as a little boy my father doing everything he could 107 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: to support the family, and like many fathers and mothers 108 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: do today, and I remember with pain seeing people basically 109 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: humiliating him and not giving him any respect because he 110 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: was doing menial jobs while everybody else was doing more 111 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: important stuff. And I remember one day him coming home 112 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: and you know, he had a very good day because 113 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: somebody smiled at him and it's supposed to humiliated him. 114 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 2: So my god, oh my god, don't get in the 115 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 2: roombo parte. But like, oh my god, like your dad 116 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 2: came home happy because someone had smiled at him. 117 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 3: Correct, I mean, how old were you when that happened. 118 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: Oh I was the little kid. I mean for five 119 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: years old. I mean those things. Look, he was a 120 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: decent man. He was a very smart man. But he 121 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: did not have the opportunity of having an education. So 122 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: is that the difference? Why would somebody treat him in 123 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: a disrespectful way because he didn't have the opportunity that 124 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: other people have had. So that's why to me, I 125 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: mean each time to this day, when I see somebody 126 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: doing a minial job, I want him to be recognized. 127 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: I want everybody to be seen by me. I want 128 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: them to be noticed and for them to know that 129 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: I noticed them, because everybody is important to me. Every 130 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: human being is important to me. It doesn't matter whether 131 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: they have a title or not or they have a 132 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: lot of money or not. That is just a way 133 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: for me to make sure that everybody see me as 134 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: an equal, because an equal to everybody else for all 135 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: human beings. 136 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: So, Raphael, I'm not seeing you. You turned your camera off, 137 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: but I have to ask you. Were you just getting 138 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 2: really emotional? I mean you were crying. 139 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 3: Am I right? 140 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 2: Well yeah, tell me what you're feeling. 141 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: Well, I just it just they connection me my family, 142 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 1: my parents is very deep for. 143 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 3: Me because I mean, I'm not asking. 144 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 2: I'm not asking more because now you've got me crying, 145 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 2: and I'm just like, I'm like, okay, hold on a second. 146 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 2: I'm having an interview with the president of MIT and 147 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 2: within the first five minutes we're both in tears. What 148 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: just happened here? 149 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 4: Because you made me talk about my bag, Maria, it's 150 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 4: all your fault. 151 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 2: Well, so tell me. I'm sorry, Beerdon, but you know, 152 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: Dad's a great look. 153 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 3: Look you're making me. 154 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 4: Cry, Maria. Nobody's going to pay attention to us if 155 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 4: we keep crying here. 156 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 2: So what you don't know, of course, is that my 157 00:09:55,000 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 2: dad was a nerd like you me. Papa Aulo at 158 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: Gonestrui at Greerre the cochlear implant. 159 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 3: He was a genius. 160 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 2: He was based at the University of Chicago medical doctor researcher. 161 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 2: So when you're like crying about your dad, I'm like, no, 162 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 2: it's because, like I'm doing this because of my dad. 163 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 3: But he did get the opportunity. 164 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 2: His dad did not, So I get to ask the 165 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: question because actually, your dad like has this very particular experience, 166 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 2: And I think that's another reason why it's like it's 167 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 2: it's emotional because your family actually had to flee Eastern 168 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 2: Europe in the late nineteen thirties. Your family was being persecuted, 169 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 2: you found your family found their way to Venezuela. That's 170 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: where you were born and raised. So can you talk 171 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 2: to me a little bit about your dad, Sefjoos. Did 172 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 2: he identify as a refugee family? Was that part of 173 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 2: your identity? Is that why this is partly so emotional too? 174 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: No, not really, I wouldn't say that. I think I 175 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: used the word refugee simply because there is so much 176 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: of that these days, unfortunately in the world, and people 177 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: escaping for different reasons. 178 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 4: From my home. 179 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: Country, Venezuela. There are many people live in the country 180 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: for all sort of reasons. So as a kid, I 181 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: remember that we didn't have much of anything, and we 182 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: live in a poor neighborhood. But I as a kid, 183 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: you just don't know, Assue, everybody is the same. I 184 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: don't think that I had the image or the upbringing 185 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: of a refugee. 186 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 4: We just we were very poor. 187 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: Yes, we didn't have what other people had that we 188 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: can kind of see, but it was not part of 189 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: my identity. It's just simply seeing this couple who left 190 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: Europe and there are so many difficult circumstances. 191 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 4: Or my family on my. 192 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: Father's side were basically died during the Holocaust. So I 193 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: mean just the memory of these two individuals trying to 194 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: provide for for I'm the fourth of four kids, the 195 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: struggle they went through. Again, I go back to the 196 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: mutual respect. It's all about respecting human beings. It's not 197 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: that I feel like I was a refugee. I didn't 198 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: feel any of that. My parents never spoke about what 199 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: they went through. I knew about it, but they wouldn't 200 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: talk about it. 201 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 2: When I hear you talking about this, I'm like, oh 202 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 2: my god. They're part of this historical moment, like a 203 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 2: worldwide moment, and yet they made a choice to not 204 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 2: talk about that with you. 205 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 3: What do you think about that? 206 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: All I can do, Mari speculate, right, I assume that 207 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: they did not want I was brought up without any 208 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: any sense of anger or hatred. 209 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 4: I never never heard anything that has. 210 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: To do with with you know, this society or these 211 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: people did this to me. So I think in a 212 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: way it's about not to bring kids up with a 213 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: sense of you know, of betrayal, of the sense of 214 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: people are not good. And I also think that perhaps 215 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: my father may have had as a of guilt because 216 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: he was the only one he escaped before the whole 217 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: family was taken to a to get on the concentration camp. 218 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: And I think here that felt the status of guilt. 219 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 2: So this movement from one place to another actually becomes 220 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 2: part of your life too. I mean, I imagine that 221 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: at some point you just got know with Michael in 222 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 2: Venezuela and I'll stay in Venezuela. But in fact you 223 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 2: were hungry and yes, I'm sorry a nerd. So you 224 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 2: end up studying electrical engineering at of all places, Stanford University. 225 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 2: So you yourself, Rafael, end up then experiencing a country as 226 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: an immigrant, and I wonder, how do you think you 227 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 2: know your your process of leaving Venezuela, coming to the 228 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 2: United States, now becoming part of the Latino diaspora in 229 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 2: the United States. How do you think that your own story, 230 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 2: not your parents' story, your grandparents, but your own story 231 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: has impacted you and shaped you and your work. 232 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 4: I have to reflect on that, Maria. 233 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: You know I did not escape to come to the 234 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 1: United States, and my situation was much more different than 235 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: my parents, and I studied electrical engineering. Maria, I apologized 236 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: disappoint you, but not so much because I was a 237 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: nerd or I think I'm a little nerd. But I 238 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: really studied engineering in Venezuela because I needed a job. 239 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I was lucky, lucky that I went to university. 240 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: Lucky because many people without resources just have to get 241 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: to work. And my two oldest brothers, in fact, they 242 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: didn't go to high school after elementary school. They were 243 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: to help my father just make a living. So I 244 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: was lucky that I went to college. So I had 245 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: to figure out, Okay, I have to get a job. 246 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: And I looked around and it was very clear that 247 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: the country Venezuela at the time needed lots of engineers, 248 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: most of them electrical engineers, so bingo, that's my career. 249 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: So I had to choose something that I can secure 250 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: to get a job, because otherwise, who're going to help 251 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: me and give me some food. Eventually, I did go 252 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: to Stanford, and I was lucky enough to be able 253 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: to get there, but mostly because I realized after I 254 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: got my degree of engineering and I went to work 255 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: for a company for a little while, I realized that 256 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: working maintaining equipment and stuff like that was not my thing, 257 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: and I tried. I was very lucky to have a 258 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: position as an instructor at the University in Venezuela as 259 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: in Unbeliever in Caracas, and I realized that I loved 260 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: being with students. I love being with people who are 261 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: intellectually curious, who ask questions, who just the intellectual environment 262 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: of a university was fascinating to me, and I realized, well, 263 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, that's what I want to be. I want 264 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: to be a college professor. But again, you don't just 265 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: get jobs because you want them, even if you compete 266 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: for them. You have to know somebody. And I didn't 267 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: know anybody. I was just nobody. But I figured well, 268 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: if I get a PhD, I'll have a very good 269 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: chance of keeping this job that I just got retaining it. 270 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 4: So I went to. 271 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: Get a PhD and to come back. I did not 272 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: leave the country to be an immigrant. I left to 273 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: get a PhD and to come back to that job 274 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: in that university. 275 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 4: That was my aspiration at the time. 276 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, MIT President Raphael Rife on 277 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 2: today's Venezuelan refugees and the importance of Latino and Latina 278 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 2: representation in higher education, and how he sees his tenure 279 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: as he gets ready to step down. 280 00:16:30,920 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 3: Stay with us. Hey, we're back. 281 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 2: We're going to continue our conversation with Raphael Rife in 282 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 2: his last weeks as president of MIT. I'm thinking about 283 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 2: what we in the United States have witnessed human beings 284 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 2: being trafficked by members of the government. So Florida Governor 285 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 2: Ronda Santis transported migrants from Texas to Massachusetts, your state, 286 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 2: and many of them were Venezuelano's Venezuelan just like you. 287 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 7: The forty eight asylum seekers, mainly from Venezuela, landed and 288 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 7: Martha's Vineyard aboard two planes from Texas and organized by 289 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 7: Florida's republic looking governor round the Santas Louis Vonseca says 290 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 7: he left Venezuela to look for a better life for 291 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 7: his three children who were still there. 292 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 2: And so I'm wondering how you've been processing not only Venezuela, 293 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 2: but the fact that there are so many Venezuelanos now 294 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 2: who are refugees, refugees in the United States, and their 295 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 2: treatment by elected officials in this country. 296 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: Well, it's extremely sad. This whole situation has been extremely 297 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: painful to me for years already. I remember Mantel a 298 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: few years ago, following the situation in Venezuela very closely. 299 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: In one moment, I just I remember reading something in 300 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: the paper about the story of how people who were 301 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: escaping and all the things they were doing in other 302 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: countries to leave because they had no other way to 303 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: get jobs and stuff. The neighboring countries could not absorb 304 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: the migration of Venezuela, and said, I remember, it just 305 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: really tore my harder part. I mean, I just was 306 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: very painful, and I mean I just had to stop reading, 307 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: had to stop becoming a way because I couldn't deal 308 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: with that anymore. 309 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 4: I remember I was on a business streep. I happy 310 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 4: to be in Ecuador and kit too. 311 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: And I remember arriving at the hotel from the airport 312 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: in the evening and I heard venezuela music coming into 313 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: the window. 314 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 4: And I looked out and. 315 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: I looked a few people, you know, playing with typical 316 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: venezuela and instruments, and see what's going on here? 317 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 4: This is years ago. 318 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 1: So I quickly went downstairs to find out who they were, 319 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: and they told me, well, they just were migrants. They 320 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: were lucky to have those instruments. That's what they're doing, 321 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: living in the street to try to make a living. 322 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 1: I mean, that's just too painful. Now we have migrants 323 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: here in the United States being moved for political reasons. 324 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: It just makes you feel terrible about the human condition 325 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: and how again, as I said before, what humans do 326 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: to each other, it's just much too painful. 327 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 2: It's very interesting raphire because people say to me, oh, Maria, 328 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 2: you know you're obsessed with the issue of refugees and 329 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 2: migrants and immigrants because you are an immigrant, and it's like, no, 330 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 2: I'm actually obsessed with this country's capacity for inhumanity towards 331 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 2: people who simply were not born in this country. You're 332 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 2: clearly a deeply emotional person. How have you been managing 333 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 2: your emotions? 334 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 4: Well? As I said, Maria is hard. 335 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: I think I tried to protect myself a little bit, 336 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: as I couldn't do when you start asking those tough 337 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: questions about my parents. 338 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 4: I have a job to do, and I try. 339 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: To live my life every day and to convey to 340 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: everybody around me the dignity and almost the sacred way 341 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: of treating each other with respect. And that's really all 342 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: I can do. There is nothing that I can do 343 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: to change the situation, whether it is right now in 344 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: America with Venezuela answer, whether quite frankly, Maria is all 345 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: over the world. So sometimes you feel pretty hopeless. Of course, 346 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 1: and there are many human beings who do very many 347 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 1: good things, and I want us to connect with them 348 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: and do things with them and try to work with them. 349 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: I try to do productive things that compensate for what 350 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: others do that are so damaging to the human condition. 351 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 2: Well, you are in a position to have influence, and 352 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 2: I'm wondering about that journey because again, you know, you 353 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 2: were like, look, I'm going to become an electrical engineer 354 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 2: because there's a need for electrical engineers in Parrakas, which 355 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 2: is a booming capital at that point. And then all 356 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 2: of a sudden, your journey leads you to being the 357 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 2: only Latino of a top university in the United States. 358 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 2: So what was that journey like and how did you 359 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 2: get there? 360 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 4: Well, that's a long story. We need the whole day 361 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 4: for me to. 362 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 3: Tell you the story, the short version, but okay. 363 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: The short version, let me give you the quick summary. Well, 364 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: I get my PhD, and then, to my pleasant surprise, 365 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: I was asked by Stanford to stay there in some capacity, 366 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: to work there, to do some research there. And I 367 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: hesitated because I did want to go back home to Venezuela, 368 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: but also to my family and friends. But I figured again, 369 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: thinking about my career, if I have a PhD from Stanford, 370 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: and on top of that, I can say I also 371 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: worked at Stanford, that will embellish my curriculum even more 372 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: and I can really secure a job where I wanted 373 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: as a teacher university. So that's what I did, and 374 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: I told them that I would only do it for 375 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: a year a year and a half, not more than that, 376 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what I did. As I was literally 377 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: packing my bags and going back to Venezuela. Then MIT 378 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: approached me and they wanted me to come to a 379 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: conversational interview. And I was very uninterested in doing that 380 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: because Stanford is one of the best places in America. 381 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: So if I'm living Stanford, why do I go to MIT? 382 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: What's the point? But to make a long story short, 383 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: that insisted very strongly, so I figured, let me just 384 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: go again. I want a care in academia, so I 385 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: want people at MIT to think a lot of me. 386 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: So I figured, well, I'll go and visit, just to 387 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: get them off my back. And I came and visited, 388 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 1: and the place blew me away, and the students, the faculty, 389 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: the humbleness of the place. I fit in here. 390 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 2: Wait wait, wait, wait, what you're like. I fell in 391 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 2: love with MIT, fell in love with the culture. Everybody 392 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 2: who is humble. I mean, that's not you know, Draf, 393 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 2: That's not the way that MIT is perceived out there, right. 394 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 4: I know. 395 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 1: When I was a Stanford and people, my PhD advisor 396 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: people learned that I was considering visiting MIT. Once I decided, 397 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: my advisor say, look, we gotta go for a talk, 398 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 1: and we went and walk around Stanford, and he was 399 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: just my mentor was telling me, don't go to MiB. 400 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 4: This's a terrible place. They do horrible things to people. 401 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 4: I know all that. 402 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 3: This is too funny. This is people understand the competition 403 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 3: between the top universities. This is how they talk about 404 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 3: each other. Okay, And you were like mel Way anyway. 405 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: No, But I just said, I want to just see them. 406 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think they meant to tell me 407 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: those things because of competition. 408 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 4: I think the reputation of. 409 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: M I T is one of a bunch of arrogant 410 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 1: people that two people out. And I come here and 411 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: I meet the people that are famous because of the 412 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: work they've done. And I know their work, and I 413 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: meet them and I talk to them, but I've never 414 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: met them in person. And I also, for the first 415 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 1: time I experienced and now things have changed in America, 416 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: but I'm talking about forty years ago, I experienced faculty. 417 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: I met faculty from all over the world. I mean 418 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: there were people from Greece and from India, and from 419 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: Turkey and from China and from everywhere. And I just felt, 420 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: not only these people are just humble, unpleasant, but this 421 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: must be the true meritocrac here. And I remember leaving 422 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: after I came for the interview for the conversation, kicking 423 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: myself for giving them such a hard time because I 424 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: don't want to come and leaven, thinking, boy, now I 425 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: really wish they're making an offer into my extreme daylight. 426 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: They did, now what I thought at the time, I 427 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: was not thinking again as an immigrant Maria. Yet I 428 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: was thinking again my career, Venezuela, and I want to 429 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: have a curriculum that I worked at Standford now when 430 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: I work at MIT teaching for a couple of years, 431 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: who on earth will not give me a job back home. 432 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: I never thought of staying. I never thought that this 433 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: was what I wanted. But Mi, it is really, honestly 434 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: a very special place, and I've been here for forty years. 435 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 2: For that reason, you know, Rafe, I'm also a professor 436 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 2: in the IVY League. I'm here at Barnard College, part 437 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 2: of Columbia University. 438 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 3: It's my alma mater. 439 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 2: And I happened to have a meeting with one of 440 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 2: my students, Latina actually, and she says, I'm really feeling 441 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 2: burnt out. And she said, every time I come to 442 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 2: your class, Professor, that's when I feel engaged and reinvigorated. 443 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,479 Speaker 3: But I'm wondering about. 444 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 2: This particular culture, especially for kids who are not white 445 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 2: and women, right. 446 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,239 Speaker 3: That there is like this deep competitiveness. 447 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 2: It becomes, as she said, my students said, a grind. 448 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 2: How do you process that? Because yes, students, they kind 449 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 2: of do grind themselves. So how do you figure managing 450 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 2: this culture? 451 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: Well, it is a very good question. Let me just 452 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: say two quick observations. When I was a grass to 453 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: in a Stanford, it was hard for me. I didn't 454 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: speak the language much. I was not prepared the education 455 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: that I had in Venezuela, which was good, of course, 456 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: but it was just behind the times for what I 457 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: was learning at Stanford. So I did not have a 458 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: good preparation. I did not understand the language, and it 459 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: was very very hard for me. I mean I remember 460 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: going to class. I couldn't understand a word the lecture 461 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: was saying. 462 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 8: I'd like you to know about abstraction. 463 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: So I wrote in my class now I wrote everything 464 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: in Spanish. The sound of what the professor was saying. 465 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: I wrote it in Spanish. And then in the evening 466 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: on my desk I would try with the dictionary to 467 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: figure out what the professor was saying in class. So 468 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: it was very, very very hard, and the consequence of 469 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: that is that I felt I felt that I was 470 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: basically the dumbest person in the whole institution because it 471 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: was so hard for me. And when Stanford asked me 472 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: after I got my PhD to stay, I was extremely surprised, because. 473 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 4: In my idea is that I. 474 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: Was just was not that smart because I just had 475 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: to to work so hard to get my stuff my 476 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: work done, So one normally overcomes those kinds of things. 477 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: But coming to MIT, I think I took the position 478 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: that I want to be one more. I don't want 479 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: to be noticed for my difference. I just want to 480 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: be noticed for whatever I have that is similar. I 481 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: remember at the very beginning some colleagues would either pretend 482 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: or not really understand what I was saying. And I 483 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: don't blame them, because my accent is still here and 484 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: it was much worse four years ago. They probably couldn't 485 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: understand what I was saying, and they showed me that, 486 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: so but I ignore that. I just kept going and I 487 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: kept going forward. So I guess the point that I'm 488 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: making is that my addu was, I'm just gonna do 489 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: the best I can of what I do and not 490 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 1: be affected by other people seeing me different. I just 491 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: speak differently and that's it. 492 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 2: So the reality is that Latinos and Latinas in higher education, 493 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 2: and I know you know this data right that essentially 494 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 2: the future in terms of the financial stability of all 495 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 2: higher education institutions depends a lot on Latino Latina latinx 496 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 2: Latina enrollment. 497 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 3: Am I right? 498 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 4: Correct? 499 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 3: So we also at. 500 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 2: The same time know that Latino and black students are 501 00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 2: underrepresented in higher education, that professors, that faculty super super 502 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 2: low numbers, especially in elite schools. So at MIT, in 503 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 2: the most recent class, Latino students made up fourteen percent 504 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 2: of the incoming class. So how important is this particular 505 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 2: issue not only a question of representation because you know 506 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 2: we're almost twenty percent of the country, but also in 507 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 2: terms of a financial stability plan for the future of 508 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 2: higher education and the importance of non white students. 509 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: Well, I think the MT the percentage of undergo audus 510 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: who are underrepresented minorities are close to thirty percent, is 511 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: twenty five thirty percent, and that more or less much 512 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: is the percentage of the groups graduating from high school. 513 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 4: So in that sense, it is what it is. 514 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: The real issue to me is that many of them 515 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons, and many of them could 516 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: be financial, because at places like MT if you don't 517 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: have the resources, we provide a financial unit to be 518 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: able to study. But once that is done, going to 519 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: continue to get a PhD, to continue to grad school. 520 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: I've met many of these students who just have not 521 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: been able to make that decision because they have to 522 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,239 Speaker 1: go and work just the same way that I had 523 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: to go and work after I graduated then that same situation. 524 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: So that is a concern of mine. I mean, how 525 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: do we increase the rank of graduate students that come 526 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: from the underrepresented groups? And that's something that has to 527 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: be addressed. 528 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 2: Rafael, I believe that you've talked about healing. This is 529 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 2: something that you, as a as the president of MIT, 530 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 2: have actually talked about with your students. 531 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 8: Yes, Indeed, as you strive to hug the world, please 532 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 8: try to heal the world too. Our society is like 533 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 8: a big, complicated family in the midst of a terrible argument. 534 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 8: I believe we can each try to make it better 535 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 8: by finding ways to listen to each other with compassion, 536 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 8: to focus on achieving our shared objectives, and to try 537 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 8: constantly to remind each other of our common humanity. 538 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 2: Okay, president of MIT, wanting to talk to students about healing. 539 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 2: Why did you feel it was important to talk about 540 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 2: this with your students. 541 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: Well, when I was a regular professor outside administration, I 542 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: had I think I remember, I had eighteen. 543 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 4: Or so advises typically that I kept for three years. 544 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: The first time they came to see me, within the 545 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: first five minutes that we talk, the student will start crying. 546 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: And the bottom line is that they tell me everybody 547 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: here is smarter than me. 548 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 3: I hear this every week every week. 549 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: Well this today, the first one my office comes. The 550 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: second one is the same thing. So everybody feels everybody 551 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: else is smarter. And I think my point is that 552 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: I thought that when I came here years ago, I 553 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: think MIT was really sometimes treating students and maybe each 554 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: other with a kind of a sink or swim attitude, 555 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: and I thought that we are not exactly like that, 556 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: and it's a misrepresentation of what people were experiencing. So 557 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: I thought it was important just to connect with the 558 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: students and for them to understand how well they are, 559 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: how well they are doing, and how the impression they're 560 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: getting that is affecting them. You know, how to explain 561 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: that to them and just simply talk to them. So 562 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: it's more the idea of creating a caring community. That 563 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: was what I wanted to do, and my ten years 564 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: of presidency, every time that I had an opportunity to 565 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: speak to students and to parents, I would use those 566 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: kinds of terminology. I mean caring community. We do try 567 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: to care for each other. MIT has a model, it's 568 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: minds and hens, and we have an initiative years ago 569 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: that out of the world hard So we are the 570 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: mindhand heart initiative connect with that caring community. That way 571 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: of thinking. I think it's important. It was important to me. 572 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: I think I moved a needle in that direction of 573 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: the last ten years, and I hope it stays there 574 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: or even improves in the years to come. 575 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 2: So your replacement is doctor Sally Kornbluth, only the second 576 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 2: woman to be president of MIT. But we know after 577 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 2: you're gone there will not be a Latino or Latina president. 578 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 2: In the top universities of the United States, there are 579 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 2: Latino or Latina presidents very few, but they are not 580 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 2: in the top ranch colleges and university. So how are 581 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 2: you assessing your tenure as you get ready to leave. 582 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: Well, the good news and bad news that I've been 583 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: so busy that I haven't had time to reflect on 584 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: my tenure. Hopefully I have some time to do that 585 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: this coming year. I really wanted very much to be 586 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: everybody's president here. I you don't want to be identified 587 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: as the Latino president, or the Jewish president, or the 588 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: I didn't want any identification that distinguishes me from others. 589 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: I just wanted to be one more. Did I succeed? 590 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. Of course, everybody knows that I'm Hispanic. 591 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, this is not something that I hide, 592 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: but I don't. It's not an in you face kind 593 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: of thing. I just want to blend with everybody else 594 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: so that everybody can see me. Yes, I come from 595 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: a different culture, but I'm just one more. And I thought, 596 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: and I hope I succeeded what I would tell. 597 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 2: So what is your message for Latinos and Latinas and 598 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 2: their pathway to higher education at a time when you 599 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 2: know there's a lot of people just like well, it's expensive. 600 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 2: I don't know what's your message to them? 601 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: Well, my message is really very simple. I mean, if 602 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: it weren't for education, I wouldn't have had the life 603 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: that I had. 604 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 4: I wouldn't be here. 605 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: I think Latino Latinas, Hispanics, Venezuela and Argentinians Caribbeans. I mean, 606 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: they are as smart as everybody else, if not smarter. 607 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: I think I just want them to get the message 608 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 1: to apply themselves to anything they want to apply themselves, 609 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: and that things are hard, but they overcome them. Just 610 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: go at it, find what you want to do and 611 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: do it. Every one of the ones who are listening 612 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,879 Speaker 1: to me that are young in college or as young 613 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: engineers or young economists or. 614 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 4: Whatever, go at it. 615 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: You will succeed. I believe in all of you. I 616 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: didn't know that I had to believe in myself, but 617 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,760 Speaker 1: it just happens. So it happens if you apply yourself. 618 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: Just go for it. 619 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 2: Rafael rafe muchas gracias. Thank you so much for speaking 620 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 2: with me on Latino USA. Formally, I will address you 621 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,280 Speaker 2: as the president of MIT. Muchas gracias for this conversation. 622 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,439 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, not everybody makes me cry, so you did 623 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 2: make that happen. 624 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 4: Well, I'm sorry that I did. 625 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 2: No I think what you know what the beauty of it, Rafael, 626 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 2: was that your dad Comosamanjime to Babajaime and my dad 627 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 2: Raoul made themselves present during our inter and that is 628 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 2: really the best acknowledgment that we can have for them. 629 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: Well that that was very special to me too, Maria, 630 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: thank you for saying so. 631 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:13,359 Speaker 2: With Muaz and congratulations and have a great time off 632 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 2: at Tiatiati. Raphael Rife will serve as president of MIT 633 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 2: through the end of twenty twenty two. He plans to 634 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 2: take a sabbatical and then return to his beginnings at 635 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 2: the institute the faculty at the Department of Electrical Engineering 636 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 2: and Computer Science. This episode was produced by Norsati and 637 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 2: edited by Andrea Lopez Grusado. It was mixed by JJ 638 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 2: Karuba Special thanks to Patricia Sulbaran and Harsha Mahata. The 639 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 2: Latino USA team includes Marta Martinez, Deisy Condredras, Mike Sargent, 640 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 2: Julieta Martinelli, Victoria Strada, Renaldo Leanos Junior, Alejandra Selasad and 641 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 2: Julia Rocha, with help from Raoul Perez Our editorial director 642 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 2: is Fernandes Santos. Our director of Engineering is stephanielbo. Our 643 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 2: senior engineer is Julia Caruso. Our associate engineer is gabriel 644 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 2: A Bias. Our marketing manager is Louise Luna. Our New 645 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 2: York Women's Foundation Fellow is Elizabeth Lenthal Torres. Our theme 646 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 2: music was composed by Xenia Ruinos. I'm your host and 647 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,320 Speaker 2: executive producer Mariao Posa. Join us again on our next episode. 648 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 2: In the meantime, follow us on all of your social media, 649 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 2: and remember not devayas c Cao. 650 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 5: Latino USA is made possible in part by W. K. 651 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 5: Kellogg Foundation, a partner with Communities where Children Come First, 652 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,720 Speaker 5: the chan Zuckerberg Initiative, and Michelle Mercer and Bruce Golden. 653 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 3: One of the top twenty five colleges or universities in 654 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 3: the United States. 655 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: M I t let me correct. This is one of 656 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 1: the top twenty five. I would say one of the 657 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: top five, but that's okay. 658 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,919 Speaker 2: You're looking together sea oh yea man, I just want 659 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 2: to be clear. I was going to say top ten. 660 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 2: So grass, yes, I mean thank you for the nerdiness 661 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,760 Speaker 2: of yes getting sure that our data is correct. 662 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 4: My numbers. I'm ay fielding with numbers.