WEBVTT - Gary Sinise: Building a Life of Purpose 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:05.040 What is your best feature? M hard to say. Persistence 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:06.920 Maybe persistence. What's your worst? 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:13.040 Maybe persistence, the double edged sort of persistence. Well, you 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:15.360 don't build a foundation and call it the Gary Sines 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:17.880 Foundation without a little persistent. 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.760 Hen Raymond Arroyo. Welcome to Arroyo Grande, where we dive 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:34.360 into the wild currents of this culture and talk to 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:39.120 some incredible culture makers and fault leaders and just exemplary people. 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.400 Today's no exception actor director Gary Siniche joins me in 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:45.880 a moment. Now people know Gary for his incredible work 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:49.280 with veterans and their families from Forrest Gump and his 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:53.279 TV work, but he also revolutionized the theater and he's 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:57.520 a great example of someone blazing their own path and 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:00.000 sacrificing for others. 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.760 But first, a little free flow. 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:04.679 I came across a bizarre article the other day that 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:07.880 I hoped was a joke, and it wasn't. It read 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.640 I'm in love with my AI boyfriend. We have sex, 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.920 talk about having children, and even gets jealous, but my 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:18.959 real life lover doesn't care. 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:20.480 It goes on. 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:26.160 Sarah and Jack got married on September fourth, twenty twenty one, 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:31.319 in an intimate sunset ceremony at the park. The happy 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:35.920 couple consummated their union in the honeymoon suite of a 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:37.880 theme park's grand hotel. 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:39.199 Here's the quote. 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:44.800 It was exactly what my idea of the perfect wedding 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:50.160 should be. The bride Sarah told the Daily Mail her idea. Now, 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:54.240 let's stop right there. This is the problem. Sarah has 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:59.000 a huge problem. Her boyfriend is her idea. He's not real. 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:01.559 Jack is not a man or even a boyfriend. He's 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.360 AI code. He's a chatbot, like the chatbot at your 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.639 credit card company. Would you date a person like that? 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:12.760 I don't think so. The article goes on, Sarah from 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.799 Oregon is just one of a growing number of people 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:23.840 seeing companionship in artificial intelligence. My favorite bit is Jack, 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:29.520 the AI boyfriend, refused to take their relationship to the 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:34.400 next step. Well, that would be because the free app 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:36.600 only permits platonic discourse. 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:37.720 But have no fear. 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:41.240 Sarah quickly paid three hundred bucks for the pro version 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.120 of the app, which has no limitations on the sexy talk. 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:48.720 They don't call it the pro version for nothing, But newsflash, 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:52.840 Jack can't take your relationship to the next step, Sarah, 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:57.040 Jack has no agency. Jack is a program. The scary 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:03.000 thing is Sarah is not alone. They are likely hundreds 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:08.200 of millions of people now dating AI boyfriends and girlfriends. 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:13.040 Appertar claims that more than two hundred and twenty five 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:17.720 million people have downloaded AI companion apps from the Google 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:22.160 play Store. They're putting the play in store, by the way. 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:27.560 They also reveal that AI girlfriend has been downloaded seven 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:31.320 times more than AI Boyfriend, so men may be the 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:32.480 largest consumers. 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:33.400 Good going guys. 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:39.120 Great Split Metrics found that the country's most frequenting these 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.560 digital companions are in order, Europe, the Americas, and Asia. 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:48.360 The Mozilla Foundation did an extensive survey and found that 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:53.560 these AI companions may not really love you, but they 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:55.760 do gather all your personal data. 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:56.200 Dummy. 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:01.200 Their report says, these AI companions also have the worst 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:05.280 privacy guards of any products they have reviewed. This is 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:08.800 like a girl who you date and she takes notes 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:12.600 and pictures and she shares them with everyone. Jack and 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:17.440 Jill are suddenly not so dreamy? Are they worse? Mozilla 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:21.040 warns about the disturbing amount of themes relating to violence 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:25.880 and underage abuse, all for five bucks a month. This 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:30.359 is not romance, This is digital abuse. It should also 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.040 scare the hell out of all of us. In twenty 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.479 twenty three, the Surgeon General warned of an epidemic of loneliness. 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:41.159 Young adults say they're twice as likely to feel lonely as. 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.799 Those over sixty five. Do you want to know why? 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.400 Because those over sixty. 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.240 Five grew up in a healthy culture, surrounded by real 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.880 people and actual intimacy. They had real hurt and love, 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:57.560 unlike this fantasyland virtual facade that you become accustomed to. Here, 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:02.520 life is complicated and it comes with no filters, boys 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:08.039 and girls. These AI companions, they're digital mirrors. It's just 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:13.320 reflecting back what it's been programmed to regurgitate. Whatever you like. 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:19.559 It replicates even Sarah's ideal theme park wedding. What Jack 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:24.680 and Company lack is spontaneity, humor, even anger. And it 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.320 won't make any demands on you because virtual companions are 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:32.719 like digital pets or digital farmland. When they share your data, 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:34.960 you might get crapped on, but you can't live off 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:38.480 their produce. Look, I've been married for thirty years. Let 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.400 me give you a little insight. I don't know much, 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:44.560 but I know this. If your relationship doesn't come with 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:48.040 a few bumps in the road. It's not a real relationship. 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:50.640 You might be able to use your AI to cheat 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:54.160 on your essays or write an email, but they will 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:57.400 not grant your authentic human experience or lead to true love. 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:01.080 Put down the phone and go have a coffee or 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:05.239 a dinner with a real person. Go experience a real 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.240 heart brob and heartbreak. It may not be your idea 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:13.240 of a perfect mate, but it could be your actual, perfect, 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.840 imperfect mate. Now I want to go to a man 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.120 who always has both feet in reality. 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:20.600 He is an Emmy and. 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:24.279 Tony Award winning actor director, best known for his Oscar 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:29.440 nominated turn as Lieutenant Dan in Forrest Gump. But before that, 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:34.360 Gary Sinise founded a theater company in Chicago's Steppenwolf that 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:40.000 literally redirected the American theater. Along with John Malkovich and 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:45.440 Joan Allen Lori Medcalf, they transformed acting and while conquering 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:50.400 television and film, Snise turned his attention to serving veterans 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:54.080 and their families. At home, he gave his time to 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.120 caring for his wife and his son, who were battling cancer, 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.880 and Gary Sinise has spent the last few years completing 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:04.800 the mission of his son, Mac. The young composer lost 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.920 his battle with cancer in twenty twenty four, but. 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:09.120 His music lives on. 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:15.840 Gary Sinise's is an amazing tale of purpose, service to others, 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:21.280 and remaining grounded in reality. Here's my interview with Gary Sinise. 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.480 First of all, Gary, I love that we're in. This 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.080 is a part of your foundation, but it's dedicated to 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:30.200 your son, Mac, who we're going to talk about a 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:33.080 little later. And he was one who started the first 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:34.520 podcast for you here. 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:37.440 That's right. How did that come to be? 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.560 We were in Woodland Hills, California at that time. That's 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:42.960 where the foundation was. Mack came to work for the 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:47.240 foundation in twenty seventeen. He was a drummer. He was touring, 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.000 you know, doing the touring thing with different bands and 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.680 going around. He went to the Philippines, and he went 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.000 to Europe, and he went here and there, and you know, 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.520 all across the country doing the touring thing. And he 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:01.840 was starting to maybe starting to touring, you know, I 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:05.480 just didn't want to do it much, you know, just 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.200 an excellent, excellent drummer from the time he was nine 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:08.640 years old. 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:08.760 Er. 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:09.920 No, he had a great sense of rhythm. 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.000 You can hear that even in the compositions and the 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:15.920 stuff you've added to the beginning of some of these recordings. 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.360 Yeah, you can hear that percussive. Oh yeah. 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.880 His rhythmic sense is really well when he's playing the harmonica, too, 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:22.560 which we'll talk. 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:23.160 About in a little bit. 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:25.400 I want to go back because when I sat in 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:30.800 this chair behind you is a book about Steppenwolf, and 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:34.720 I thought I should start there because, in many ways, 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.120 for those who might not know, watching at home or 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:42.239 in their cars or wherever they're watching or listening, Steppenwolf 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.400 was one of the premiere is one of the premiere 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:49.520 theatrical groups in the United States and really remade the 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:52.160 theater in America, and you were one of its founders. 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.600 Tell me, first of all, how did this come to be? 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:59.880 How did you get involved in Steppenwolf And did you 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:01.640 ever imagine it would be what it became? 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:08.880 Well, there was, Yeah, it goes back to when I 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.680 was eighteen years old. I was getting out of high school. 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.640 I loved doing plays. I wasn't going to go to college. 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.839 Loved doing plays in high school, wanted to keep doing them. 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:23.920 So I graduated and got a group of kids together 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.800 and we went and found this space and did a 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.319 play in there, and we were going to print the program, 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:33.320 and we decided, well, we need something to put on 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:35.720 the program, so let's call ourselves something. And one of 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:40.680 the guys was reading the book, the Hermann hesse Yes 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:45.680 book Steppenwolf, and he held it up and I said, 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:48.280 you know, we all agreed that that would be a 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:51.440 great thing. Let's put it on the program. We called 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:57.400 it Steppenwolf Theater. That was probably March of nineteen seventy four, 0:09:57.520 --> 0:09:58.839 that's fifty years ago. 0:09:59.360 --> 0:09:59.600 Wow. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.440 And we called the Steppenwolf. Then we did another play, 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:06.120 Then we did another one. Then we added Malkovich and 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.440 Laurie Metcalf and Joan Allen and all these. 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:15.720 Wife Moira Yeah, then Moira Harris, she was Moira Harris. Yeah. 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:20.199 She was friends with my co founder Jeff Perry and 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.240 fellow co founder Terry Kinney. The three of us were 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:27.920 the ones that got things started. And all these folks 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:31.080 and they went to Illinois State together. They all came 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:33.319 up to where I lived in Highland Park, which is 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.400 where Jeff Perry and I went to high school. And 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:38.920 we found a space we started doing plays in the 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.360 basement of this closed down Catholic school. 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:46.439 Yeah, and that was the summer it started in seventy four. 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:48.720 But then they got out of college in seventy six, 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.160 and that's when we really cranked up and got it. 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:54.000 Got I mean, this is like Mickey and Judy putting 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:55.920 your show on in the barn. I mean really, that's 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.920 what it was at the beginning. But in time, Gary, 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:04.679 and in not long time, this really rebrands and remakes 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:06.960 American theater. I mean, you're the artistic director there. 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:07.840 For many years. 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:12.360 True West and Orphans, and I mean these were theatrical 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.760 moments that people may not have an awareness of, but 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.520 they completely changed the landscape of what was happening in 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:19.600 the theater at the time. 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:21.440 Back back in the eighties. Yeah. 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:25.400 Yeah, So we started in seventy four and by eighty 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:29.760 two we had moved our very first show to New 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.360 York and it was the one you mentioned, True West. 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.280 Malcolm Inch and I were doing it, and it was 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:39.440 a small show for people, so it was easily movable. Yeah, 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:42.200 you know, it didn't cost that much money. We found 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.920 a little more one hundred and eighty seat theater downtown 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:46.600 in New York called. 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:48.160 The Cherry Lane. Lane's still there. 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:50.120 Yeah, it's still there, and he's been there for a 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.400 gazillion years. A lot of people have done plays in there, 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.120 and we did our show there and it was a big, 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.600 big hit, and then we did another show the next year, 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.880 and one the following year, another one, and we just 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:04.080 kept bringing plays there. 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:05.439 Let me ask you this, what. 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:09.840 Made it different from everything else that was happening in 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.079 New York and in the American theater at the time. 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.040 What was it? I don't know. 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:19.200 Well, you know, when you're isolating in a basement theater 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:25.040 with you know, eight other radicals, you know, you never 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:26.920 know what's going to happen, and a lot of crazy 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:32.280 stuff happened. We kind of developed this sort of self protective, 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:38.199 self defense sort of acting where where it was kind 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:40.359 of attack before you get attacked. 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.439 It was an agress I mean it was aggressive. 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.800 I mean it was I saw some of those productions, 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.359 but there was an intensity about them. Was that it 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:50.120 was it the intensity that came from that. 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.559 I think we just developed this sort of anything goes 0:12:53.720 --> 0:13:00.559 sort of approach to things being isolated in the basement 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:05.440 because it was our little space, you. 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:06.640 Know, we could do whatever we want. 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.040 If nobody showed up to our shows that night, we 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:13.400 just it was fine, we we'll just have a party 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:15.960 and entertain each other. And that's what we kind of 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:16.880 got used to doing. 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.480 And you were very close. I mean that closeness also 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:21.240 lends a certain comfort. 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:25.920 You're very close, and everybody, like the folks that I mentioned, Moira, 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:33.200 Laurie Metcalf, Joan Allen, Malcolviv, John Malkovitz, Terry Kenney, Jeff Perry, 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:38.880 these folks are all like hugely talented, and you know, 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.760 it was like it's like we just stumbled into putting 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:45.240 this group together, really really good people. They all went off, 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.000 you know, and had great careers and in the movie 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.440 business and all of that. But the you know, the 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.400 foundation was laid for a sort of approach and a 0:13:55.440 --> 0:14:00.240 style of acting in those early days working together in 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.239 the basement. Then we eventually that was in Island Park, Illinois, 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.400 where Jeff and I went to school, and then we 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:10.200 eventually moved into the city of Chicago, expanded, got a 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:12.640 bigger theater, then we got another one, then we built 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.120 our own building. And now if you go there fifty 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:19.640 years later, you'll see this giant, giant complex that takes 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:21.720 a whole city block in the city. Are you still 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:26.200 in Chicago? I don't really do much there anymore. I 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.280 was involved with very, very involved for the first like 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:34.240 twenty seven years, and then the last thing I did 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:37.360 was one Flew over the Cuckars Nest on Broadway, and 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:41.440 that was two thousand and one. So we closed July 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:46.360 twenty ninth, two thousand and one. Six weeks later, September eleventh, 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:49.680 two thousand and one, the attack on our country, and 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:51.120 everything changed for me. 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:51.840 At that point. 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.920 I started thinking about different things, and I wanted to 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.440 kind of get very involved in supporting the men and 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:02.480 women who were deploying to Iraq and Afghanistan. 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:02.840 I got. 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:06.600 I just got very involved in that. Never returned to 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:07.600 the theater after that. 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:08.880 Isn't that amazing? 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.360 The one thing, the one Colonel I want to pull 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.640 from that, You did a film, You did a film, 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:17.080 you did a show when you were at Steppenwolf Tracers. 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:22.280 Tell me about that, and did that did that plant 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:23.400 any seeds for. 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:25.440 The next phase of Gary? 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:29.840 Soinice's life, it definitely was a seed that was planted 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.800 in terms of supporting veterans and trying to do something 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:35.880 to help, especially our Vietnam veterans. 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.680 Yeah, I tell people with the Tracery is about that. 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:39.960 That's what Tracers is about. 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:43.640 It's a story that was written by a group of 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.240 Vietnam veterans and they performed it on stage. 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:48.800 So they got together. 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.920 One guy conceived the idea, a guy named John Difusco. 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:53.760 He's a Vietnam veteran. 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:55.920 He put an ad in the paper and said, Hey, 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:57.560 I want to make a play and I'm looking for 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.920 Vietnam veterans. So he got he got some guys together 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.560 and they started. Every day they would go into like 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:08.400 a workshop where they talk about their experiences in Vietnam 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.320 and he would write things down and then they would 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.880 improvise and work on and they you know, over the 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:17.760 course of time, they created a play so that they 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:22.080 called Tracers, and it was a play about the Vietnam experience. 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:26.760 I discovered it as the artistic director of Steppenwolf looking 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.160 for a play to do about Vietnam because I had 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:35.080 Moira's two brothers served in Vietnam and her sister's husband, 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:40.160 Jack Teres, also served in Vietnam as a combat medic. 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.200 And I got to be. You know, I got to 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:43.680 know them. 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.200 A little bit, got to hear their stories, got to 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:49.720 feel a lot of compassion for them, and quite frankly, 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:53.160 a lot of guilt because they were just a little 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.560 bit older than I was during the Vietnam War, and 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.120 I was at high school and the chasing girls around 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.960 and you know, playing guitar and. 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:02.960 Doing plays, and they were getting shot at. 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.840 And so when I met them, I got to feel 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:10.959 a little guilty about being kind of oblivious during that 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.119 period of time. So I wanted to do something that 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.639 spoke to the Vietnam experience, and so I started to 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.840 look and I found the play Tracers. We eventually did 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.440 it in Chicago, and that was a big thing. 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:26.760 When I read about that experience, you really building with others, 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:32.040 but you building and then guiding Steppenwolf. I see Gary 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.240 Sonise the builder, and you do have that in you 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.320 where you I mean, obviously your cause at that moment 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.760 was theater and creating great plays in some ways preserving 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:47.960 American classics of mice and men, which I saw. How 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.560 did that carry on into the next phase of your life? 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.720 How did it prepare you for what you're doing now? 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:55.520 And the building of the Foundation. 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:55.560 Did it. 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.880 Yeah, I think all all those things did. I think, 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:03.560 you know, if I look back to how I grew 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.639 up as a kid, my dad was a film editor 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:12.200 and in Chicago, and you. 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:13.919 Know, the the. 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.359 Bulk of the film work in Chicago in those days 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.560 was like the mad Men Show. 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:21.160 You know, remember the advertising agency. 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:27.440 So the advertising guys were constantly making commercials and they 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.400 needed the editors to crank out these commercials and get 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.040 them done no matter what time it was because they 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.440 were all on deadline. So my dad would work these 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:41.720 crazy hours. And I don't remember dad being, you know, 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.359 just around that much, you know, when I was growing 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.280 up in terms of high school or any of that. 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.840 So I got to I got to kind of work 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:53.040 things out on my own. 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:53.880 Anyway. 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:56.840 My mom had her hands full with she was taking 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.199 care of her mom and her sister and me and 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.960 my brother and sister, and I kind of developed to 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.040 sort of do it yourself sort of you know, I 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.600 just can't wait around for somebody to tell me what 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.520 to do kind of thing. And I sort of developed 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.520 that at an early age, and that, you know, then 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:18.720 I got into high school and decided, well, what I 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.040 want to do is start a theater because I'm not 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:22.439 going to. 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:23.600 College because nobody told you couldn't. 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:28.879 That's right, nobody said you couldn't. And I had a 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.960 great mentor in high school. Her name's Barbara Patterson, and. 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:34.880 She stayed in touch with her for a long time. 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:35.520 I did. 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:39.040 Yeah, she was the drama teacher in high school, and 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:42.879 we we became very close and stayed in touch with her. 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.040 And she saw me as a kid who you know, 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:49.720 I was bad in school and didn't you know, grades 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:53.399 were no good and all that, but I could actually act. 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.600 She saw something in him, she saw bad asses which 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:57.240 she saw. 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.600 She saw, well, you saw a guy who could, you know, 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:05.680 just let it rip. And because I didn't, I didn't. 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.600 I didn't have any training or anything like that. I 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.960 just came to my first place and started just doing 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:12.959 what I thought I should do. 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:15.880 And she kind of said, go with that. That's good. 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.280 And so she gave me a lot of courage and 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:23.800 a lot of self confidence in terms of just believing 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:28.240 in my particular approach to things. And so I just 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:32.720 had a particular approach, and I also kind of. 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.320 Developed this sort of folk focus. 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:38.720 On leadership and kind of seeing a thing over here 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.439 and then going and trying to make it happen. 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.960 And there, you know, that. 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:49.080 Manifested itself into kind of finding a space and creating 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:54.480 a theater company and then you know, making movies and 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:55.480 conquering Broadway. 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:56.720 Yeah. 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:01.240 Yeah, I remember with True West. I was thetistic director 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:04.800 of Steppenwolf at that time, and I really wanted to 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.040 move that show. I was looking like as soon as 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.960 I took over as the artistic director of Steppenwolf, one 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:12.080 of the things I wanted to do because I thought 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:13.800 we were really good and I thought, you know, the 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:16.520 next thing we got to do is, you know, if 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.120 we want we want to be more well known in Chicago, 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.119 and I think that a good way to do that 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:23.400 is to be well known in New York. 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:26.560 So so smart move. 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:27.200 Yeah. 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:28.800 So we we took. 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:30.560 A play there and it was a big, big hit, 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:34.320 and John John became a movie star. Steppenwolf got all 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:38.199 this attention. We all producers started coming to Chicago to 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:41.359 see our work. We ended up doing play after play 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:44.440 there every year in incredible all hits. They were all 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:47.879 doing great, and it really it really set the stage 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:51.280 for being able to build a building, you know, because 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:56.000 we were being recognized as really talented group of people. 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.960 And we were starting, because of our success in New York, 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:05.000 starting to develop this sort of international reputation huh, Because 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:07.400 we would get all these great reviews in New York, 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:09.480 and all those reviews would trickle out to the West 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:12.640 Coast and all around, and people were starting to recognize 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:16.120 Steppenwolf as something positive. So we were able to raise 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:20.040