WEBVTT - A New Plan 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:04.559 A group of high school student High school students. 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:07.440 Elizabeth and high school students started a project to research 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:11.160 a string of unsolved murders. Their research led to the 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:13.000 identification of the killer. 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:16.079 Investigators now have an answer to a thirty four year 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:16.800 old question. 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:20.040 Once you start getting a few tips, or a few 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:24.800 leads or few identifications, then the cold case isn't so 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:27.440 cold any normal. There's a pretty good chance he's still alive. 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:32.199 Everything that the students predicted through their profile turned out 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:32.919 to be accurate. 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:39.000 Redhead killer profile mal Caucasian, five nine, six hundred and 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.320 seventy pounds, unstable home, absent father, and a domineering mother, 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:46.080 right handed IQ above one hundred most likely heterosexual. 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.199 There is no profile of this killer except for the 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:51.479 ones the students created. 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:54.000 Just because some of these women no longer have people 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:55.480 to speak for them, it does not mean that they 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:57.840 deserve to not be so anymore. What if this guy's 0:00:57.840 --> 0:00:59.800 still alive, like what it becomes after us? 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:01.760 I consider it's gonna kill me, he said, Yeah. 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:09.000 This is Murder one oh one, Season one, episode eight, 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:17.680 A New Plan. I'm Jeff Shane, a television and podcast 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:21.720 producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker, Courtney Armstrong, and 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.479 Andrew Arnolt. We're picking up where we left off as 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.479 mister Campbell connected with the Bible Belt Strangler's only known 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:31.560 surviving victim. 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.240 I was a little surprised that he had made bail. 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:36.840 Did did they call you and let you know that 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:38.440 he had made bail? Oh? 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:40.520 Yeah, I was going to the Bahamas. I was on 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:45.400 my way and Larry Johnson said, no, don't leave the 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:47.800 time three because I can't take care of you or 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:50.760 I can't you know, because I said, don't kill me, 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.840 I have to leave. I mean, I guess he's only 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:57.760 out for like a day, but yeah, I just I 0:01:57.920 --> 0:01:59.320 was going to leave the country. 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:02.880 Yeah, I'll have to look at the timeline that I've 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:04.600 been trying to make, but I think he was out 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.360 for a few weeks, and of course he got arrested 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:10.720 for stealing a vehicle. But like, what went through your mind? 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:13.160 I mean, whenever you heard did they call you on 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:14.960 the phone they told you? What went through your mind? 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:16.520 What were you thinking when they said that? 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:20.760 Yeah? Oh yeah, yeah they told me. Oh, I like 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:22.280 to had a heart attack. I just knew that he 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.960 was going to come and kill me. I mean I 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.040 was the only thing keeping him from freedom. I mean 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:31.119 I thought, in fact, I thought the brother would kill 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.280 me because I just, you know, I didn't know that 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.119 whether he was in on it or not. I got 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.400 a gun the first time I life. I kept it 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:41.359 on my coffee table. 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:43.480 So did you end up going to the Bahamas or 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:44.040 did you stay? 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:44.440 No? 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:48.200 I didn't leave because Larry said that, you know, he 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.880 could protect me as I'm here, but not if I'd 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:52.320 run off the Bahamas or something. 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:53.160 No. 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.040 I just wanted to get away when when Jerry down 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.960 got bond, I wanted to go to another country because 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.960 I was scared. No, I just I don't even I might. 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.480 I don't even know if I said Bahamas, I can't remember, 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.680 but that was I just I wanted to leave the 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.560 country because I was terrified that he's gonna kill me. 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.880 Yeah, and I'm curious what other I mean, did you 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.960 do anything else differently because you were scared? Did you 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:21.200 besides by the gun? Did it change the way you 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:23.720 behaved or where you win or anything like that. 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.840 Yeah. I couldn't breathe hardly. I had That's why I 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:31.200 handed up with the psychiatrist because I was having tremble breathing. 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.760 I mean all the time, and I still I still 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:37.520 have treble breathing. If I'm thinking about my breathing. I 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.520 can't stand anything near my neck. A teacher has to 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.040 be round, not like v neck or I mean, it 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:48.480 has to be It can't be like a regular T 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.120 shirt like a man wears where the tup teacher's neck 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:54.280 because I can't wear it. I can't. I can't stand 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.920 anybody to touch me like people like to have a massage. 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:00.000 I can't stand it. 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:05.640 Yeah, yeah, Well what was it like testifying in court? 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.080 I guess you were in front of him? And how 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:09.160 did how? What was that like? 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:09.760 It was? 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:15.200 I was absolutely terrified. I've never been in anything like 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.960 that before. I was when I was young. I was 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.000 married and divorced in the same year, and we walked in. 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:24.480 I walked in by myself a named some sort of 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:28.040 judge's little room thing with my attorney inside of piecepaper, 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:29.880 and that was as closet as I've ever come to 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:34.080 a courtroom. So I've never ever been in trouble or 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:36.320 been in a court, you know, anything like that. So 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.520 the whole thing was scary, and I had trouble talking 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.520 because I couldn't get my voice above a whisper, they 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.560 kept And yeah, when when I saw him for the 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.960 first time after three years, whatever it was, I mean 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.960 I was having trouble breathing, not not like I'm going 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.440 to die and wasn't turned blue, but like I couldn't 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:58.960 get a breath. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was. I 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.920 didn't think i'd make it through. I thought, there's just 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:03.320 no way that I can do this. 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:05.760 What do you think allowed you to make it through? 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:10.680 Knowing that he was going to kill other women If 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.640 I didn't, there was no doubt in my mind that 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.800 women who knows how many would have died. And all 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.320 those pictures of all those women that looked like me 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.400 were all dead women. Of course, I mean they didn't 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.360 show any pictures of dead women. They chose some of them. 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:28.839 I've been I don't know. There hundreds is not thousands 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:33.080 of pictures on that table and just spread around everywhere. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.960 And I guess where they'd shared it with each other 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:37.839 or something before I got there, I don't know. But 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.960 all I kept thinking was I have to do this 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:44.480 if it kills me, because if not other women were 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:44.960 going to die. 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:47.440 Did you ever have to look at him in court 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:48.400 or anything or. 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:50.640 Oh, yeah, he was there the whole time, and he 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:56.039 stared at me. When I first took the stand the 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.120 first time. I guess I was across from him. The 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:04.359 other guy, yes, his attorney or the said do you 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.360 see him in his court room or whatever like this? 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:10.960 And I said yes. He said, well, looked like when 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:16.280 when you saw him last. I said, well, something's different. 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.039 I said, I don't know. He's like shaved his beard 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:23.479 or mustache or something, and whatever it was. I was right, 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:27.560 I guess because when I was done, my attorney suggest 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:32.480 that's exactly the right. Whatever, I don't I'm not. I 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.240 don't remember what it was. He had a mustache, had 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:37.440 a beard, and none just had a beard. I don't know, 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:38.520 but I. 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.200 Was going to ask you, how did you find out 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.480 that he had been tied to Tina Farmer's murder. Did 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:45.760 somebody call you and tell you that? 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:52.960 Yeah, the that TBI guy called me was still alive 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.240 and he's in GOMP for two years, so it had 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.720 it had been I don't know when it was, sometimes 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.320 last twenty years, in the past two years. I'm real 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:03.240 bad of time too. 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:07.599 I think they identified her in twenty eighteen, but he 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:08.720 might have known before then. 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.760 I don't know that would have been exactly that would 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:15.480 have been the right time when they and also told 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:19.160 me that there was a lot of stuff in the 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:23.040 papers and on TV. And I needed to prepare myself 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:27.720 because for the first twenty years or so, you know, 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:31.400 anybody that I saw or what by you know, telling me. 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:35.440 But then I dated this guy and I'm just crazy 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:37.440 about him. And then I thought, Okay, if I'm gonna 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.800 start dating, I gotta be completely honest. And I said, 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:41.800 this is what used doing. This will happen from that 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:45.840 day forward. He treated me like a whoor just the whole, 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.920 the whole. Everything changed. So that's when I thought, well, 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:52.320 you know what, I'm gonna quit telling people. I'm gonna lie. 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.800 There's no you know when I'm ascot. It's been years 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.680 since I've been on a date, many years. So after 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:04.200 we'd started, Joself now I'm not a virgin, you know, 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.400 I've got children, I've got you know, and I said, 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.880 I've done some things, awful thing, you know, he he 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:12.760 and he just said more than what he said, I 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.160 don't need to know about your past. And so I 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:20.120 never told you any of it and like that, and 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.120 I moved here. So it's not like I wasn't around 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:24.760 people that were to come up and call me Tasha 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.240 or you know that. I don't think he put even 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.680 put together if he saw a newspaper clipping that said lady. 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.199 So anyway we're talking about, Uh, they called you and 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.560 let you know when Tina Farmer, you know, had been 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.840 tied to Terry John's what what did you think or 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:43.680 what was the feeling you had when you when you 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:44.360 found that out. 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:47.640 Well, there was no doubt in my mind that he 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:51.079 was a serial killer. I mean, no matter what the 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.800 judge said to have been not looked into anything else whatever. 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:58.319 I know he killed women before. He wasn't gonna stop, 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.640 he said. But when what it called me to tell 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:07.840 me was that that they had DNA positive proof now 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.839 because they didn't have that with me, and it was 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.960 almost like he said, she said, except they found them 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:15.640 in my car. They found the blood on the cold 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:19.320 you know, there's others, you know, but he tried that 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:21.960 his tiny tried to blame it on uh, you know, 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:25.640 some other man or something. I don't know, but there 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.640 was a huge relief to know that there was positive 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:35.240 proof out there because I think the wife always thought 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:39.000 I was lying and I always worried about her. I 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.600 know they got divorced when after he went to prison, 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:45.400 and she was about the same height to me and 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:49.160 had fluffy hair and way and looked like twins. But 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:50.760 there were some similarities. 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:54.880 You know. They actually showed her the pictures. I can't 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:56.600 remember if you were one of them, but I know 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.960 Tina Farmer was one of them, and his ex wife 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.280 Life actually said she looked just like me when I 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:02.680 was young. 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.360 Yeah, I saw a picture of ken of Farmer and 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:06.720 I said, oh my god, brother, they get a picture 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:08.240 of me, and then while I look at it, they 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:09.040 realized it's not me. 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.480 But yeah, so she felt that she felt there was 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:17.680 some similarities to And the interesting part was they his wife, 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.640 his ex wife Phyllis, and him were actually half brothers 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:21.280 and sisters. 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:31.600 Oh my gosh, let's st up here for a break. 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:32.640 We'll be back in a moment. 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.560 Murder one on one. 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:48.960 And they had had a very of course you probably 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.040 understand this many times, people who are violent and such 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:54.680 have had really rough lives. It was a really rough 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.960 home and some different things. But they didn't know they 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.880 were related. They lived down the road from each other, 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:05.959 so her mom was married to his real dad. 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.120 So they were from where. 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:14.080 Okay, So it's really crazy because they moved everywhere, but 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:17.280 they were living in Illinois at the time. And so 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:19.640 he joined the Marines and he went awall and he 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:23.280 was hiding out at his house and just down the street, 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.640 you know, was this girl. And so they saw each other, 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:30.200 and you know, they got involved. But they didn't even 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.440 know that there. You know, that her she didn't know 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:35.679 that her mom used to be married to his dad. 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.040 It's one of those things where it seemed like there 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:42.000 was like some infidelity, but both husband and wife were 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:43.599 a part of that, and they didn't like it was 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.000 an open secret. People knew it. They knew it, they didn't. 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.880 And so when they got divorced, I guess they just 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:52.280 were like they still stayed friendly, you know, and it 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:54.679 wasn't weird. I don't know, but that's the kind of 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:55.680 the way she made it seem. 0:11:55.920 --> 0:12:00.000 Well, he was already in prison, wasn't when they got divorced. 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.959 Okay, So yeah, they had separated. What happened. It was 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:07.079 really sad. They had two sons and they had. 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:09.880 Thought they had kids. 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.160 They did, and one had died at twenty two months old. 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.920 He died in nineteen eighty three, and from what I understand, 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.959 the marriage just deteriorated and they had been separated, and 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.199 she had moved back to Illinois, and he was staying 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.680 around Cleveland, Knoxville, and he was driving a truck. He 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:30.320 wasn't driving a truck. It's kind of hard to really, 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.440 but basically what I think is that he had been 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:36.920 involved in criminal activity going back to fifteen years old. 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.520 He'd been a lot, very long police record, but it 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.160 seemed like for about eight years, between seventy six and 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:47.400 maybe eighty five, there was no arrest record. But his 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:49.840 ex wife said he had been stealing some trucks, and 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.320 we know that he's probably related to some murders, but 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:54.720 for whatever reason, he wasn't arrested or anything for a 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.040 long time. But I think if you look at when 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:01.360 most of these bodies in Tennessee started having it was 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:05.760 around nineteen eighty four and eighty five, So I think 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.640 that's when the marriage broke up and she moved back 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:11.880 and he had no one to watch him. He didn't 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.120 have a wife, he didn't have kids, and he owned 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.640 his own trucking business, so there was no boss and 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:18.920 he basically had free reign and I think for about 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:21.600 six months, like there was a lot of murders. 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:25.720 Oh, I'm pretty sure it went on before that. I 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.360 think a lot of the women that they show me 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:32.480 pictures of had died before a year or two ago. 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.680 I mean, I will say that the Tracy Walker, who 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.640 they just identified at the end of August, she was 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.600 found very close to Tina Farmer, like maybe two miles 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:44.719 away there in Campbell County. But they actually lived near 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.400 each other in Indiana. And the interesting part is that 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:53.080 Interstate goes between Knoxville and Rockford is where he lived, 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.920 and you have to go through both of their hometowns. 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.200 So they went missing like four hundred miles away, but 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.360 their bodies went up very close to each other, just 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.400 thirty miles north of his house. So I feel there 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.120 could be a connection, and that's one of the things 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.040 we're looking at. And she died, she went missing, she 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:11.400 kind of ran it. She had had a history of 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.360 running away as a teenager, and she had ran away 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.360 for the final time in nineteen seventy eight. When they 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.440 found her remains, they said that she'd probably been dead 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.760 two to four years or longer. So she could have 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.560 been killed as early as nineteen seventy eight, So that 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.320 would give it seven years until nineteen eighty five. 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:33.800 Yeah, probably, I would assume if there was a split, 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.280 he might have went wild. But I mean, from what 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.040 I've read of that sial pillars, they may start out 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.520 doing one a year and then they go do more 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.640 and quicker, you know, less time between. Yeah, that's the 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:49.920 way I've always felt, just from those words he said, 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.440 is that I was not I was a prostitute, so 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.640 I wasn't worthy of life, and he was doing the 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.480 world of favor. You know. That's he didn't say that, 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:03.280 but that's way he treated me. That's what outside. 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.920 Yeah, so he told you you were a nuisance. His 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.480 ex wife when she was interviewed, she said that he 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:12.520 told her many times when he was out on the 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.560 road prostitutes were a nuisance. And then he told the 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.600 TBI when he was interviewed that prostitutes were a nuisance. 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.480 So he keeps using that same word, and you know, 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.480 and so that's and so with a killer like that, 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:28.800 they don't always kill closer and closer together. It can happen, 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.200 but they don't have to. But anyway, that's something interesting 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.040 to look at. But the one thing is like, how 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.680 do you feel what was the biggest change you think 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.960 about yourself as a person by going through this experience? 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.720 Well, it kun my whole life around. 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:46.320 I mean. 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.800 I grew up in church, and I knew whatever was 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.440 doing was wrong. You know, you make excuses, you need this, 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.760 you need that, you know, and I knew God got 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.840 my attention and he let me live for a reason. 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.800 So now I think back and I think, how could 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.320 I have ever done that? But you do what you 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.840 got to do is it's just like being a mother, 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.320 you know, or whatever you're doing. Oh, I could never 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.440 do that. You can. You do whatever you have to do. 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.440 I mean, and I mean I could have gone back, 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.240 and it's hard to leave all that money, you know, 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.040 people tipping one hundred dollar bills and stuff. I mean, 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.640 because I never had to sleep with anybody. There was 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:31.600 no reason for me to have done that. I had made 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.280 eight hundred and some of dollars that night, you know, 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.480 I didn't need more. Just I was in a bad 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:41.040 mood and just is just stupid. But I mean, yeah, 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:44.720 my entire I tried to completely forget, like said my husband. 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:49.640 Reason knew I'm not that person anymore, And it wasn't 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:55.400 that person before I started. Actually, he is the reason 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:59.720 that I started dancing. We were in Indianapolis and he 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:01.760 kept on because has I begged of me to get 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:03.760 a thurn dance and he'd take me to these places 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.160 and show me, you know, and then so I would 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:10.840 widely done anything to me do. So I got really, 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.000 really really drunk, but it wasn't like I was drunk, 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:16.240 because I couldn't get drunk. I mean, I was so scared. 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.720 And then I got a third danced and I didn't 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:21.040 do a doup for a long time. But that was 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.840 how the first time I ever you know, dance. The 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:28.639 mood was because my husband wanted me to. And so 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.960 then when I was in I moved to Gatenburg to 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.639 get away from him because he was he was hitting 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.000 me into stuff. So even though we're divorced, I had 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.359 to get away from him, and I moved to Gattenburg 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.639 and there's only one hospital there and back then they 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.439 didn't have like home health or anything like that. And 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.119 I applied for a job and they didn't have any openings. 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.800 So I went to work because I work Castle on 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:59.280 the Hill and they really did money, you know, a 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:01.919 hundred times hunt dollars a day or hunt back then 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:06.760 it's love money. And but then the season changed and 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:10.560 there was nobody in Gallenburg, so I wasn't making any money. 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:14.439 And then a friend of mine took me to Noxtle 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.520 to apply for a job. It was din a pay 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.720 for a waitress. So I got there and they said, well, 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.679 you know, we we don't have a waitress position, but 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.040 you can dance. And I'm like, no, no, no no, 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:30.760 And eventually I said. Then about a year later, I 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:36.280 didn't I learned, Thank god, I don't keep that up. 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:41.399 I'm sure it be dead or on drugs or who knows. 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.480 I mean, it's not a make a lot of money, 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:47.920 but it's not a pretty life. When that's why when 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.520 they didn't when he went to prison for life, they 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.280 didn't spend a whole bunch more money to prove that 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:57.080 he killed other women because he's already in prison for life. 0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:59.360 And I guess it didn't know what expensive, but. 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.880 Yeah, which which okay, it protects other women from him 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:08.000 in society from him, but it doesn't let other families 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.919 have that closure, you know, of knowing exactly. 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.359 Yeah, I'm going to tell you could comments question because 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:16.640 I know I'll think of things I wish I had 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.200 said to you, because you know, things I'll think of 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:20.920 along the way. 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.160 But I might be able to ask you about this 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:26.600 and see if you heard this. There was the body 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:28.560 that was found in Green County. I don't know if 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:29.160 you remember that. 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:30.119 I heard about her. 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:33.000 Yeah, it was it was a few, like a few 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.199 weeks after your incident, but she had been dead for 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:36.679 a while. 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.080 It was way before what happened to me. 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:41.720 Or there was a few. There was some in like 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:43.760 down near Knoxville and Cheatham County that had been dead 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.000 for over a year. But the one girl, she had 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:47.840 been dead for a few weeks, so he could have 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:50.919 killed her before he was arrested. But my point is 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:55.600 we had an investigator in Kentucky tell us that they 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.760 found a business card near her body and it was 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.840 from a certain t truck stop in Houston, which is 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.119 where he lived. Jerry lived there part time. He had 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:06.520 family that lived there. His trucking company was registered in 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:10.520 Houston as well as Cleveland, Tennessee, and Rockford, Illinois, so 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:12.119 we know he was there. He actually said when they 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:14.720 interviewed him to the TBI that he just got back 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.680 from Houston, so we know that he had been in Houston, 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.120 and we know that he just got back from Houston. 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:23.800 Yeah. I had always hoped that they would, but when 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:25.800 I talked to him, they said that, you know, they 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.600 couldn't afford it because well, his advices daughter in prison, 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.600 her life, so there was no it would cost millions 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:35.200 of dollars to do all this and well the DNA 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:39.280 wasn't back like that back then. But he's always worried 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.240 about his wife too. I've never spoken to her. She 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:45.000 gave me horrible looks in the courtroom because you know, 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:47.919 if somebody told my husband Kilton Bay, I get him 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.359