1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning to you with a 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 1: bit of an epilogue to our continuing fascination with pirates. 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: Did you know, friends and neighbors, that there was a 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: pirate's paradise once upon a time? 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot like the wild West wasn't quite 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 2: as wild as people think. Do check out our previous 7 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,319 Speaker 2: episode on that. It turns out that pirates depicted in 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 2: fiction often bear very little resemblance to the real life 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 2: historical ones. And in our previous conversations about some of 10 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 2: history's most ridiculous pirates, we mentioned the quite egalitarian, dare 11 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 2: we say democratic, ways that the pirates organized their society, 12 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 2: and I believe we hinted at something of a pirate paradise. 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: Absolutely, folks, Let's roll the tape. Ridiculous Histories, a production 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio. Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeart Radio. 15 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: Are with a hard, are a vast and ahoy, fellow 16 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians, Welcome to the show. Today, we're diving into piracy. 17 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: I guess diving is an accidental pun. There. Hi, my 18 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: name is Ben, my name is no. 19 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: Do were pirates known for their diving skills? 20 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: Well? 21 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: They were maritime, you know, I would I would think 22 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 2: they would go to a great length to stay as 23 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 2: dry as possible. 24 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: They were known for their non consensual diving skills when 25 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: they had to walk the plank. 26 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Oh I felt bad about that one. No, 27 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: it's very I think we all feel bad about that, 28 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: but we feel great about our super producer. Give it 29 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 2: up for Casey Pegre. Now, none of us here in 30 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 2: the studio, and hopefully none of you have been involved 31 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 2: in acts of IRL piracy. Let's be honest. It is 32 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, and in these our modern days, many people 33 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: are digitally pirating things. I was about to say, I 34 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 2: think we've all probably downloaded a Torrent or two in 35 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 2: our day. We're not advocating that here, but you may 36 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 2: remember that very pointed trailer where I told you about 37 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: how piracy does hurt people. You wouldn't download a car, 38 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 2: which you wouldn't download a car. That's where you wouldn't 39 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 2: steal a car. That's right. So we're not talking about 40 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 2: that kind of piracy. We're talking about a much much 41 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: more brazen form of piracy. And I want to start 42 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: the show off by talking about the fact that in 43 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 2: this age of political correctness, and you know, people getting canceled. 44 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 2: Why aren't people talking more about how pirates probably aren't 45 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 2: the best role model for little kids. You know, you 46 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 2: still can pirate hats and you know, pirates swords and 47 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 2: little eye patches with the Jolly Roger on. 48 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: His sports team. 49 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 2: It's a sports team. It's a lego set, you know. 50 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: It's a it's a series of lego sets. 51 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: It's a series sets. It's a kid's cartoon. Remember the 52 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: Pirates of Dark Water? Remember that? 53 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh deep cut. I loved it. 54 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 2: I loved it. I liked it too. They were sort 55 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: of like future pirates. 56 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: They were some apocalyptic sci fi pirates, you know. Uh, 57 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: it's it's funny, Casey, you were mentioning that off the 58 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: air as well. You specifically said, aren't pirates due to 59 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: get canceled, which I thought was a great point. Man. 60 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: It just seems like they get up to a lot 61 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: of stuff that's not so great, you know. 62 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: The lowest of hijinks. So nowadays we romanticize pirates. However, 63 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: this was not always the case, and we should point 64 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: out now that there are active pirates existing around the 65 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: world right some based in Somalia, so based off different coasts, 66 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: and these folks are not romanticized, but we have in 67 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: our collective brains, we have this idealized, romanticized concept of 68 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: a pirate, a swashbuckler, you know what I mean, A 69 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: lovable rogue. This romanticization begins in eighteen eighty three. It's 70 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: weird because we can pinpoint the exact moment where it began. 71 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: It began, arguably with Treasure Island by Robert Lewis Stevenson. 72 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: So Treasure Island comes out, and you guys remember Treasure Island, 73 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: right of. 74 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: Course, swashbuckling adventures on the high seas. I believe long 75 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: John long John Silver. You know, all of the kind 76 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: of like tropes of pirate ness were sort of solidified 77 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 2: in that one book and then it was taken and 78 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: run with and everything from the Pirates of Dark Water 79 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 2: to the Disney Treasure Island to everything. Who knew that 80 00:04:59,240 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: would work. 81 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: It's a film franchise based on a ride, and I'll 82 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: admit the ride's pretty dope, but it you know, when 83 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 1: you're a kid, but it's it's problematic. It is definitely, 84 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: as you guys said, romanticizing things. But yeah, Treasure Island 85 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: has this tremendous influence on how we think of pirates today. 86 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 1: It includes all those things that we consider cliches or 87 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: mandatory parts of a pirate story, Treasure maps that have 88 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: an X on the spot, one legged sailors who have 89 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: a trusty parrot, you know what I mean, all the hits, 90 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: all the all that slow cool jazz. But if we 91 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: look at real pirates, we see a lot of dissonance 92 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: between what they actually were and what Hollywood would have 93 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: us believe. When we engage with things like talk like 94 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: a Pirate Day or watching Pirates of the Caribbean nineteen 95 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: or whatever, whichever one, they're wrong. How far are they 96 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: into that? How many? How many? 97 00:05:56,080 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 2: Well, Johnny Depp got canceled briefly, and I think he okay, 98 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 2: now I can't remember because I think it maybe turned 99 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: out that his estranged wife was actually being abusive towards him. 100 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 2: I saw that pop up in the press and then 101 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 2: it kind of went away. So that's yet to be determined. 102 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 2: I know he's not in the next one, but they're 103 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: doing it without him. They're doing it without him. 104 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: Are they just gonna get Keith Stewart to do it? 105 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 2: I'm not you mean Keith Richards. 106 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: That's the one. Yeah, one of the Keith, one of 107 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: the Keith. I'm not discriminatory when it comes to Keith. 108 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: I just good a guy named Keith in there. Give 109 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: him some dreadlocks, put him in the film. 110 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, just kind of prop him up with a bottle 111 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 2: of rum. 112 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: Is Keith Stewart a famous for series though? That's just 113 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: I think that's a guy who went to my high school. 114 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: It's possible we had kind of a Keith Richard's vibe. 115 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: I don't know any famous Stuart's except for John Stewart, 116 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: Rod Stewart. We're okay, well you got me there. He 117 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 2: did not go to oscool. 118 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: But but yeah, yeah, it's amazing this kind of this 119 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: kind of vision, this pop culture phenomenon exists. But we 120 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: can we can set the stage for today's show by 121 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: looking at pirate fact versus pirate fiction. First things first, 122 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: the life of a pirate was grip. They were ruthless. 123 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: This was a time of homicide. This was a time 124 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: of murder. If you think a captain Jack Sparrow realized 125 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: in real life he could have never become the captain 126 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: of a pirate ship. He would have been killed by 127 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: his crew. 128 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 2: Was it for wearing eyeshadow? 129 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: I think it was less less the the coal liner 130 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: and more the profound commitment to running away. 131 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 2: Oh that's right, because pirates didn't run away. If anything, 132 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: they ran towards things, right, That's what they That's what 133 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 2: they had to do. You know, they had to they 134 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 2: had to capture these ships. We know that the most 135 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: famous pirates were probably not the most successful as well. 136 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: We also see this whole Bury treasure thing. You know, 137 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: it probably happened several times, but it was not common. 138 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:56,559 Speaker 1: It was not normal. These guys. Pirates didn't live super long. 139 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: They weren't like long term thinking, you know what I mean. 140 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: It's like one of the guys selling drugs and the 141 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: wire is not wondering about what he's going to do 142 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: when he's eighty because he doesn't think he'll make it there. 143 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 2: Only here's the thing, Ben, Some pirates did kind of 144 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: live the equivalent of a Twilight Years retiring to Florida 145 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 2: kind of situation, didn't they They did. 146 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: They did nail on the head. This is something that 147 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: the three of us recently found out about. Because we're 148 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: all right, we understand that Hollywood doesn't depict a lot 149 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: of the truths about pirates, like the whole walking the 150 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: plank thing are and I made. Those are kind of 151 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: Hollywood creations, but some pirates did make it. Some pirates did. 152 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: As you say, Nol have a retirement plan. There is 153 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: a small island off the coast of Madagascar that we 154 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: call Nosey Burraja today weird, it's weird, it's a weird one. 155 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: In the past it was known as the is Sainte Marie. Casey, 156 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: could you help us out with that. 157 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll stall Mari. That sounds about right, Casey, and 158 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 2: Ben on the case whoa and noul I thank you. 159 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: I appreciate that, Ben, but you nailed it in the 160 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 2: first place. We just got a little bit of confirmation 161 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 2: from our resident, what do you call him, a Francophone. Yeah, 162 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 2: Casey Pegram, Casey Pegrim, the. 163 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: Man, the myth, the legend. And speaking of men, myths 164 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: and legends, there was in the Indian Ocean again, just 165 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: off the coast of Madagascar, a real life pirate paradise. Yeah. 166 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: When about in the neighborhood of one thousand pirates weren't 167 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 2: out pirrating, they can't. This was kind of their summer home. 168 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 2: You know they're off season paradise. There was a map 169 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: from seventeen thirty three that was discovered of this area 170 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 2: and it was simply headed with the Island of Pirates. 171 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 2: It is near the East Indies trade route, very very 172 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: centrally located to where these folks would have been pillaging 173 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 2: and pirrating and looting and raping their way across the 174 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: high seas. It was very convenient and it was the 175 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 2: perfect place to it. It was like a real life 176 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 2: treasure island in theory anyway, right, because it was perfect 177 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 2: tucked away location where they could hide all of their 178 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: ill gotten booty. I like saying booty, right right. Yeah. 179 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: Since a pirate named Adam Baldridge started making that his 180 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: base in sixteen ninety one, this became a home away 181 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: from home or in some cases a legit first home 182 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: for a lot of pirates and it went on until 183 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: seventeen nineteen with a pirate named John pro There were 184 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: multiple reasons for this tiny island to be attractive to pirates. 185 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: They first off enjoyed proximity to multiple trading routes. You 186 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: know what I mean. This ships would be returning from 187 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: the East Indies with fresh goods, fine fine clothing, spices 188 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: and so on. And then it had a bunch of 189 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: bays and inlets that were protected geographically from storms. It 190 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: was situated in quiet, easy water. It had tons of fruit. 191 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: You could just live off the land if you had to. 192 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: And so a bunch of or make their own rum 193 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: or make their own rum. Oh that's probably more important 194 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: than the fruit. That was a big That was a biggie, 195 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: I think yeah, I think you're right. 196 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 2: And they lived in these little huts, right, They were 197 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 2: like little wooden huts, and each one was marked with 198 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 2: an emblem or one of you know, the pirate the 199 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,839 Speaker 2: ubiquitous pirate flags, which presumably would have been different designs 200 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 2: for the different crews that were under serving under these 201 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 2: different captains. And also, wouldn't you think, man, that some 202 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 2: of these factions wouldn't necessarily be like vying for the 203 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 2: same stuff, Like there wasn't necessarily like an overall brotherhood 204 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 2: of pirates. To my understanding, it was sort of like 205 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: every man, every crew for themselves kind of situation. And 206 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 2: yet they managed to coexist on this island, That's true. 207 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 2: Quite a few of them managed to coexist, So maybe 208 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 2: they had kind of a truce situation. But we're talking 209 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: legendary real pirates, William Kidd, Robert Culliford, Henry Avery, Abraham, 210 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 2: Samuel Thomas, two and so on. The island had a 211 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 2: main town called Embodi Futatra, which is a mouthful. And 212 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 2: they also had family here, you know. They they met 213 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 2: women who were native to the area, and they had children, 214 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 2: and they evolved this sort of non criminal lifestyle, but 215 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 2: they took a bunch of stuff with them. So the 216 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 2: island today remains allegedly home to massive amounts of missing 217 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 2: loot or as you prefernal booty, booty, booty hard d. 218 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 2: So we're talking gold, we're talking coins, works of art, 219 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 2: religious artifacts, precious stones, and legend has it that the 220 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 2: treasure of William Kidd is still buried somewhere in this 221 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 2: pirate island, in the bay near the main town, and 222 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 2: people have been hunting around this area for buried treasure 223 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 2: for decades and decades and decades and decades. But one 224 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 2: thing that really fascinated us was the culture that sprang 225 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 2: up on this island, particularly that there is an actual 226 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: pirate cemetery that's nuts, there's actually there, you know, like 227 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 2: the whole nine. They are tombstones. 228 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: They're weird messages and codes and skulls and there's actually 229 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: there's skulls inscribed on the tombstones. 230 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 2: Totally, and that whole Jolly Roger imagery. Yes, so it's 231 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 2: not a huge one. It's on a hill shaded by 232 00:13:55,559 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 2: palm trees and it overlooks the ocean and pretty small. 233 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 2: Only about thirty real life irl pirates are buried there, 234 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 2: and they were buried there because they were residents of 235 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 2: this island. This was their home away from their home 236 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: on the high Seas, I guess. And you can still 237 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 2: go visit this site today. 238 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you can go tour it the same way 239 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: that you could see another local attraction. It's only about 240 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: three or four dollars to go us. There's a small 241 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: pathway behind this long way wall which is south of 242 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: the capital, and signs from there will lead you to 243 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: the cemetery. There's a small hut where you can pay 244 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: your entrance fee and you can learn more about the 245 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: pirates that are buried in the in the area, and 246 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: then you can walk over to Saint Pierre. The problem 247 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: is that over the years, surprise, surprise, not a lot 248 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: of people have put time into taking care of the 249 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: gravestones on the grave site. So a lot of a 250 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: lot of graves and crips were damaged because because of 251 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: a very understandable crime. I have to say, guys, if 252 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: I grew up in this area, or if I were 253 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: interested in being around pirates and finding their treasure, I 254 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: would totally mess with their graves because I would figure 255 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: they would be buried with their stuff. Because again I 256 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: have like a goonies level understanding of real pirates. 257 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, to be fair, that's probably one 258 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 2: of the more historically accurate pirate films that's out there, 259 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 2: right right right. Mine was Pippy long Stocking or Pippy 260 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 2: long Stocking. I do she was? She was she a pirate. 261 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 2: She wasn't a she was on a pirate ship. There 262 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 2: was a pirate, I believe. I believe she served under 263 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 2: some sort of pirate and she had a monkey, right 264 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: I think? 265 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: So, you know, I mainly remember her hair. But it's 266 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: it's true, though, this is one of the misc inceptions 267 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: that's leading to pretty serious damage to this real life 268 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: pirate cemetery. Pirates didn't again, they didn't really bury treasure. 269 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: It could happen, but it was not commonplace instead. Just 270 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:18,119 Speaker 1: imagine if you listening and Casey and Noel and I 271 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: are all together and we're pirates. We're sailing the high seas, 272 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: and we rob a ship and we get our booty 273 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: with the hard tea. Then we're going to keep it 274 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: on this ship, and then later we'll divide it up 275 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: amongst ourselves. Again, this idea of buried treasure comes from 276 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: Treasure Island, and the X marks the spot. The whole 277 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: nine largely fictive. The only person we know for sure 278 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: to bury anything was Captain Kidd, and the entire reason 279 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: he buried his treasure was to keep it away from 280 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: the Governor of New York. He buried it outside of 281 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: New York, I don't know, like Yonkers or something. I'm kidding. 282 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: He didn't do it in Yonkers. 283 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: So one of the I don't know, slightly more well known, 284 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 2: certainly not as well of them as Billy. The kid 285 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 2: pirates that was laid to rest in this graveyard and 286 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 2: spent a lot of time on this island was a 287 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 2: French Corsair by the name of Olivier Lavasier or a 288 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 2: ka LaBouche, LaBouche LaBouche. 289 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: Casey, can we get a sound effect for that. 290 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 2: Of course, that means the mouth. I don't know if 291 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 2: he has some sort of weird snaggletooth kind of situation 292 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 2: going on, or if he just talked too much. But 293 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 2: apparently dead men tell no tales. But here's the thing, 294 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 2: LaBouche did tell tales after his passing, in the form 295 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 2: of a cipher. I know you're a fan of a 296 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 2: good cipher, and we're not talking about a freestyle rap, ben, 297 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 2: are we no? 298 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: But fun fact, I am actually very scarily to freestyling. Yeah, 299 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about a cipher is in a code. So 300 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: he's executed in seventeen thirty for as many, many, many 301 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 1: many crimes as a scaly wag, a buccaneer and so on. 302 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: But apparently, moments before his execution he yelled, find my treasure, 303 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: the one who may understand, and hurled a necklace into 304 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: the crowd. And this necklace had sort of a note, 305 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: but it was actually a cipher is a seventeen line 306 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: coded message. And you can see you can see photographs 307 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: of this cipher on a great article by Magellan Times. 308 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: The cipher itself remained It's unsolved today, right, No one's 309 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: cracked it. 310 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 2: I believe that's true, and not that it wasn't attempted, 311 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 2: because maybe it's just maybe no one's figured it out yet. 312 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 2: I mean, on the same article there is like a 313 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 2: key with some of the little symbols and what letter 314 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 2: they're present, But obviously it didn't do the trick. 315 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: And not for nothing people have been trying to find 316 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: this for such a long time. There's a guy named 317 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: Barry Clifford who is a real life treasure hunter and 318 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: somewhat successful too. That that's nuts to me. Do you 319 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: guys think about that. We're here in our podcast studio 320 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: and we're we're having a lovely time making shows and 321 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: exploring these stories, but this guy is actually out hunting treasure. 322 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,959 Speaker 1: I gotta say, if I had to pick another job, 323 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: no offense to you guys, but I would totally be 324 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: a treasure hunter. Would you guys be in like if 325 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: we had a chance of finding treasure. 326 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 2: Like Steve Zisu's style, Yes, well he was more like 327 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 2: a naturalist, like a figure, but yeah, I'd be down, 328 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 2: especially if you knew a good area to look. Where 329 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 2: might that be? 330 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: Right? 331 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 2: It's almost as though we've been talking about what might 332 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 2: have been a hotbed of pirate activity. It boggles the 333 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 2: boggles the mind, and it boggles Barry Clifford's mind to 334 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 2: the point where he decided, surely there are remnants of 335 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 2: sunk in pirate galleys and all of the accompanying booty 336 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 2: littered throughout Sant Marie. He told The Daily Mail in 337 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen that pirates had more money than they could 338 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 2: spend in ten lifetimes. So surely there's stuff squirreled away 339 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 2: in these little lagoons or you know, in caves or 340 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 2: what have you. Right, yeah, yeah, so surely he must 341 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 2: have had complete success, and he is now a very 342 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 2: wealthy man. 343 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 1: Right he changed his name to Jeff Bezos. No, he 344 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: goes on and he says, he's like, yeah, you know, 345 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: back in the day, if you were a pirate, this 346 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: island's where you would go. It's where all the pirates 347 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: hung out. 348 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 2: Why is this guy so haggard sounding. 349 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: He's lived a hard life, you know what I mean. 350 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: He doesn't wear sunscreen, so that's the secret. It's very apparently, 351 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: it's very bad for your throat not to wear sunscreen. 352 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 1: But he has been exploring the island for almost well 353 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: more than twenty years, and during this time, he's found 354 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: thirteen separate distinct ship and you can see you can 355 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: see photos, you can see some of the stuff that 356 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 1: he's that he's extracted from these crash sites or these 357 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: uh oh, some of these ships were probably scuttled too, 358 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: if their damage was too great. And I know you 359 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: love that word. 360 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 2: Scuttle, but scuttle, but would be rumors if I say scuttled, 361 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 2: but I said scuttled. 362 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,239 Speaker 1: Some of these ships were scuttled. I know that's one 363 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: of your favorite. 364 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 2: Words, is but it would have been funny if you 365 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 2: had said, I know some of these ships were scuttled, but. 366 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: It would have been yeah, it's true. The jokes that 367 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: would have been everybody who's seen Hunger Games, go ahead, 368 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: kiss your fingers, do the uh what what was that motion? 369 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 2: Oh that's I always thought of that as sort of 370 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 2: like a badass like sign off, like I'm out yeah. 371 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think both of us have done 372 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,479 Speaker 1: that in social situations before. But anyway, Yes, he has 373 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: not found treasure. Clifford has not. He has, however, found 374 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: religious artifacts. He's found ships, of course, and pieces of ships. 375 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: One of his big one of his big recoveries was 376 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 1: an early statue of Jesus Christ from the thirteenth or 377 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: fourteenth century. So who knows whether you have a dream 378 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: job or something that's just sort of a means to 379 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: an end right now, maybe a career in treasure hunting 380 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: is for you. It takes some dedication, and it sounds 381 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: like it takes a lot of overhead, but I would 382 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: personally love it. I would love it if someone listening 383 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 1: now actually found buried treasure, you know what I mean, 384 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: because even we know it was super unusual. No, it's 385 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: largely a myth, but that doesn't mean it's totally a myth. 386 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: The treasure's out there right Also hashtag no oak. 387 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 2: Island Remind me about Oak Island again? 388 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: Then the Oak Island money Pit. We did a show 389 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,959 Speaker 1: on this for stuff they don't want you to know, 390 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: and the Oak Island money Pit in Nova Scotia is 391 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: thought to be a site of largely unrecovered buried treasure. 392 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: Now this has also become a reality show phenomenon, so 393 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: the producers got involved and now you will see all 394 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: kinds of here you go scuttle butt at about what's 395 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: actually in the ground there. 396 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 2: Thanks for doing that for me, Ben. 397 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: Hey Man, I got your back. So some things have 398 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: been carbon dated. Some people have claimed that they found something, 399 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: but they haven't found any significant treasure. The thing is, 400 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 1: there are real buried treasures out there, and I would 401 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: I would love to be a part of finding one. 402 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: So you know, hit us up, Hit us up on 403 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians if you have a If you have a 404 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 1: pitch for a likely sight of buried treasure, you can 405 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,959 Speaker 1: find us on Facebook where we are Ridiculous Historians. 406 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 2: It's a group that we have. You might have heard 407 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,199 Speaker 2: of a time or two. We tend to mention it. 408 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 2: You can join just simply by saying Ben in my name, 409 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 2: and the same way you might some and a genie 410 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 2: in some sort of secret cave. 411 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: And of course there you will also see our good 412 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: friends Superducer, Casey Pegrim and Christopher Hasiotis, among others. You know, 413 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: I noticed some of our coworkers are sort of stealth 414 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:14,959 Speaker 1: hanging out on that page. 415 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 2: Have you seen that? Totally a lot of Larkin. 416 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram. If 417 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: you want to get a peek behind the curtain, you 418 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: can follow. You can follow us on our personal instagrams. 419 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: I am at Ben Bolin. 420 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 2: I am at Embryonic Insider and big thanks to super 421 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 2: producer Casey Pegrim. As always thanks to Alex Williams who 422 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 2: composed our theme. Thanks to our Here in Spirit cohort 423 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 2: Christopher Hasiotis, who is one day going to see the 424 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 2: light about how amazing a movie Mandy is. 425 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: And let us know about your favorite pirate throughout history, And. 426 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 2: Let me know was Pippy Longstocking a pirate? I don't know. 427 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 2: I forget, it was a long time ago. We'll see 428 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 2: you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 429 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 430 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 2: your favorite shows.