WEBVTT - Roots of a Poison Tree 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.680 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:19.160 Me your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:23.280 I am very excited to welcome back on this episode 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:26.040 of wok F friend of Mine and friend of the show, 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:30.160 Amara Jones, to talk about a myriad of issues, particularly 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:34.200 those that are affecting the black trans community, the black 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:37.720 queer community, and the queer community at large. What does 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:44.519 it mean to watch as headline after headline goes on 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:48.800 the attack on your very sense of being when what 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:53.680 you're reading isn't about some other group or some other place, 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:58.600 It is about elected officials deciding that you shouldn't exist 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:02.480 right and that you should be ashamed of your existence, 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:07.840 or that your very existence should be criminalized. And you know, 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:12.319 while this summer has been wild in so many different 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:16.120 fucking ways, with a former twice impeached, you know, rapist 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:21.120 president being indicted four times on ninety one charges, we 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:24.920 have also seen a rise in an uptick in violence 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:28.520 against the queer community. We have seen an uptick in 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:33.320 racial violence, and it's all stemming from the same poison tree, 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.160 the Republican White Supremacist Party. And so what does it 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:41.200 mean that when those within the black community align themselves, 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:45.560 whether knowingly or unknowingly, with the same talking points in 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:52.680 rhetoric that were used to subjugate them against the trans community, 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:58.400 against the black transwoman community. So we get into a 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:02.760 myriad of conversations about so much in this jam packed 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:10.320 episode with Amara Jones. Folks, I am so happy to 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:14.080 welcome back to WOKF After God, it feels like a 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:18.920 very long time CEO of Translash Media, Amara Jones, and 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:23.639 the host of the Webby Award honored Translash podcast and 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:29.880 a time one hundred honoree I mean, and documentarian and activist. 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:34.000 I mean, the list can go on, Amar, How are you? 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:41.440 It has been a really challenging summer. I would say, 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:46.320 let me use that word for the black queer community. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.239 There have been some really high notes, there have been 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:53.040 some really low notes. So just to start out, how 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:53.760 are you doing? 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:58.919 I mean, luckily, just be honest. Luckily, for a lot 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:02.280 of the a lot of July, I was gone. I 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:04.040 was gone both for work and I was on vacation. 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:07.200 So that was when there was you know, a lot 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:11.320 of intense conversations. We're being polite here about black queer 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:15.240 people coming from black sis people. So I honestly think 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.560 that that helped my frame of mind and helped me 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.560 to be perfectly honest to not be in the center 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:23.880 of that hurricane, even though I was keenly aware of 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.960 what was happening and how it was unfolding. I feel 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.080 like I need to take a nap, but I feel 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.480 like it's not going to not going to happen because 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:37.440 I keep getting interrupted by everything that we're all being 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.680 interrupted by and more. And so I'm just trying to 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:44.200 find small ways to get through what is going to 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:49.040 be a very intense next you know, sixteen months. You know, 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:51.560 there's not going to be a let up I think 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:55.280 for a while, and so I am just trying to 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.720 get my mind around that and to figure out ways 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:01.760 of small ways that I can try to preserve myself 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:03.680 in the middle of it, because that's going to be 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.880 kind of the key and the solution. 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:12.680 I one thousand percent agree. I talk a lot on 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:17.719 WOKF about self care. I talk a lot about centering joy. 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.039 I talk about, you know, centering it every single day 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:24.919 and doing these small things that allow people to feel 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.479 like they are not losing their minds, to feel like 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:32.520 there is still hopefulness in you know, in the world. 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.839 And it's hard when you're paying attention to the headlines 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:40.599 every single day. It's even harder when your life is 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.360 actually a part of those headlines. It's not just something 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.159 that you're reading, it's something that you're living. And so 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:53.040 I do want to talk to you first about uh 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:58.280 the comedian and I'll put that in air quotes jefs Hilarious, 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:04.839 a black sis woman who took it upon herself to 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.919 engage in a conversation she is not educated for or 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:13.120 should be in, about black womanhood and how she feels 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:19.000 like it is being quote stolen by black trans women 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:23.719 and that she, as a sist black woman, was somehow 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:30.720 making herself the gatekeeper for black womanhood. And I wanted 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.320 to get to your thoughts and reaction because I got 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:35.160 to tell you, I had to walk myself out of 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:42.440 those comment sections because the people agreeing with her hateful 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:46.640 rhetoric are the very same people who have called this 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.520 woman outside of her name for her for her own 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:58.040 looks and have used right in like, used the idea 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:02.280 of masculinity as a way to insult her. And it's 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:06.040 just it is a wild circus. It was a wild circus, 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:08.080 so I had to walk myself out of that. But 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:12.839 what did you make of this back and forth that 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:13.360 we saw? 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:21.640 Just not hilarious? You mean, I thought it was incredibly sad, 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.279 and I thought, just on a personal note, what's sad 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:31.440 is that this is a person who is lost, and 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:36.600 I think that everyone who was joining in are equally lost. 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:40.919 In three kind of ways that stick out to me. 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.520 I think the first way is that just Hilarious is 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:51.840 clearly not aware that what she was doing was essentially 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:57.839 parroting talking points that were written I'm sorry, the parenting 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:05.120 talking points that were written by white supremacist as a 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:10.520 part of a campaign to flood the airwaves with anti 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:14.520 trans disinformation such to the point that it would seem 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:18.480 natural and people would take it upon themselves to repeat 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:22.720 those same views, therefore turning themselves into an agent of 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:27.240 white supremacy and patriarchy. So that's one thing that I 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:30.760 didn't understand, because what she says is exactly what they say, 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.280 and they've said it longer than she said it, So 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:38.080 that's where it comes from. The Second thing that I 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:42.800 felt really sad about is this is a person that 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:50.880 doesn't fully understand the way her or other, as she 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:54.480 would say, since women's bodies like her function. I mean, 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.480 there are so many people who lose their periods at 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:00.679 a certain age, who have a kid and the periods 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.840 don't come back, who have an accident. Are they not women? 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.120 Like it just doesn't make any sense, Like it literally 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.560 doesn't make what she was saying, even if you were 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:12.720 applying it to the people that she thought that she 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.040 was talking about, it doesn't make any sense, like it 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:22.560 literally is nonsensical. Means you don't understand fundamentally how your 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:26.000 own body works or could work. And that made me 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:28.480 really sad. And that's true because we know that that's 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:33.880 that's the way that people are have been miseducated about themselves. 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:36.720 I think the third way that it was really sad 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:40.840 is that she clearly doesn't understand the history of black 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:46.240 women in America. Come on, doesn't understand that in America, 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:53.920 the entire enterprise to define womanhood was so that black 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:58.240 women's bodies could be exploited. And so if you are 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:01.000 getting into this conversation of about what is a woman, 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.600 not what's who's not a woman, then what you're essentially 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:11.440 doing is again extending white supremacists in patriarchal enterprise, and 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.880 as I said in a post, it doesn't actually matter 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:18.040 whose mouth that comes out of and the color of 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.280 the face attached to that mouth, it's still the exact 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:26.360 same views. And not understanding that this debate over what 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:28.679 is a woman and who's a woman, and who can't 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.160 be a woman and who can be a woman meant 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:34.640 that black women did not achieve full womanhood in the 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:40.680 United States until nineteen sixty five, until probably just hilarious 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:45.760 Mom in her life technically became a woman in America. 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:53.040 So you, by doing that is actually stimulating, recreating and 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:58.840 extending the very arguments that were rooted in your own impression. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:01.640 I thought it was really sad, and I said, like, 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:03.360 I mean, I really do believe this, and I don't 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.640 say this lightly. I really do believe that. What struck 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:08.200 me is that I was like, Oh, this is a 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:10.679 person who's lost, and oh wow, there are a lot 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:15.000 of other lost people. You know. 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:19.000 What struck me is that, to your point, a person 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.640 that has lost, a person that is under educated and 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:27.400 miseducated about themselves, their own history, and is so easily 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:32.640 then made malleable by white supremact ideology because you don't 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:36.360 have any roots of understanding in that right, So you're 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:40.520 just picking up the same rhetoric and louding it at 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.160 other people as a way that you think it's building 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.720 you up right to be better in some way, But 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:51.680 you're standing on a pile of shit, right, And so 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.560 for me, that was you know, I'm looking at this 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:59.240 entire conversation, but what really troubled me were what I 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.320 perceived to be other cis black women that were in 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:09.240 the comments, you know, applauding her right for taking some 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:13.600 type of stance. And I'm saying, why do we all 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:17.480 tend to decide to operate from this place of scarcity, 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:23.720 like in order for us to expand and think about 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:30.319 the notion of peoplehood and womanhood and ideas around masculinity 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.920 and why we were indoctrinated in certain ways that that 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.840 means that somebody is taking something away from me. I 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.439 really don't understand that mentality, And you see it play 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:45.280 out everywhere. You see it play out with Ron DeSantis 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.040 and Donald Trump and white grievance, Like for there to 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:52.400 be a multiracial democracy, it must mean that you're taking 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.920 something from me. If I'm a white person in America, 0:11:56.080 --> 0:12:01.120 and we just see it play out over and over again. Barbie, 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:05.160 the movie Barbie comes out and they say, you're taking 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:09.600 masculinity from you know, from men. No, we're having a 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:14.600 conversation about toxic masculinity and patriarchy. But it seems like 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:18.840 you can't do. For all the advances of mar that 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:25.520 we seem to make in conversation right in understanding, we 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:31.920 seem to take ten steps back. And I'm wondering how 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.839 you see us in a time when the policies that 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.920 are coming out, the anti trans policies that are coming out, 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.920 the anti LGBTQ policies that are coming out, the anti 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.840 black policies that are coming out and are being taken 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:50.640 up across the country. What does it look like to 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.040 really hold and center your own humanity in this moment, 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.360 Like for us all to continue to hold and center 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.560 our own humanity when we're watching the advance answers of 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:04.280 the last sixty years be rolled back. 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:07.520 I mean, I think a couple of things. I think, 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.280 you know, first of all, the idea of the scarcity mindset, 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.920 who does scarcity benefit? It benefits people who want to hoard. 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.520 And if you look at the history of America, it 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.199 was won by the hoarders. What I mean by that 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:28.000 is that, you know, when Europeans came here, Native people 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:32.160 in many places welcome them and said there's plenty, there's 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:36.360 enough for everybody, come on in. But the Europeans looked 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:40.000 around and said, no, there's not, and this is mine. 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:43.320 So I think that we have to realize that this 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:51.760 idea of like hoarding everything right, power, money, resources, humanity 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:57.560 is an under is an undercurrent to that predates the 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.880 founding of what we now call the United States of America. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.200 It came with many of the people that came here 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:07.560 as settlers, and it is a mindset that we have 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:12.040 yet to figure out how to effective counter to. I'm 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:19.040 sorry to counter effectively, and so that means that it's 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:23.640 still with us and we need to do some deep 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:28.400 diving into all of that. I think the other thing, 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:30.600 how do we preserve ourselves in the middle of this. 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.080 I think what's amazing is that, like growing up, I 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.920 got to spend a lot of time with southern rural 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:45.800 black people, including my grandparents, and I often think about 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:47.920 all of the things that they did to preserve their 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:54.400 humanity in circumstances that I can't imagine, you know, ways 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:58.920 in which they emphasize community, ways in which they emphasize 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:03.080 connecting with their bodies, ways in which they gardened and 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:08.520 they farmed, and they worked on their houses and they painted, 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.760 and they were artistic and they were creative, and so 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:16.800 doing the things with and amongst ourselves that affirm our humanity. 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:22.840 Because the public sphere is not where we can do that, 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:28.120 right Like, that's not where that happens. And if you're 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.360 looking for the public spirit to do that, I would 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.600 urge you to think of something different, because that's going 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:37.600 to be a losing enterprise. You will find your humanity 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:43.000 by connecting with other people individuals that affirm your humanity 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:45.760 and in ways that are human, in ways that are 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:50.040 outside of even the digital realm. I think that right 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:56.280 now we are called to find the new old ways 0:15:56.400 --> 0:16:00.200 of connecting with each other and with ourselves. 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.720 I think that's so important and it's something that I really, 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.560 by virtue of privilege, had the opportunity to marinate on 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:13.760 when we were in quarantine. Is this idea of community 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.360 and the idea of what are the things in our 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.720 lives that are truly important and what can we really 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.840 let go of that has just been weighing us down. So, 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:27.520 whether it is the capitalistic rat race that has us 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:32.200 see each other as competition instead of community, whether it's 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.360 the overloading of our work schedule, because I'm only as 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.920 valuable as I am as I am productive, right like, 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.960 it was just these different pieces of recognizing how little 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:48.200 by little our humanity had been robbed from us for 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.040 the benefit of other people. And so when you say 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:55.600 to connect as a way to reimagine or refine or 0:16:56.000 --> 0:17:00.760 go back to our grandparents and great grandparents ideas of 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.320 what community looks like, I think that that is absolutely 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:09.040 right because in the social sphere alone, social media sphere alone, 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.560 I mean, my god, the toxicity is just so is 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:17.680 so potent, you know, I want to with a few 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.000 minutes that we have left, I do want to get 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:26.000 your thoughts on Trump and his ninety one charges that 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:30.640 he has against him, ninety one four indictments, ninety one charges, 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:38.520 the black women who are the ones that have been 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.439 steadfast in the defense of our democracy and the pursuit 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:47.439 of justice that we are seeing play out, and the 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.440 upcoming Republican And I use that in air quotes because 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:54.359 I don't see why we would watch a white supremacist debate, 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.920 but debate that is happening soon, and what you think 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.560 about twenty twenty four. So let's start with Trump, the 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:09.840 Republican front runner, and his just myriad, myriad of charges 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:15.720 against him. 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:19.000 I have so many unpopular opinions today. I'm just going 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.800 to continue in that vein. I mean, I think as 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.840 my microphone comes out of my ear my headphones, I 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:29.400 think that, like the thing that I would say about 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:35.560 Trump is I understand the hyper focus on these charges. 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:39.520 It's historic, that's never happened before. And you know Trump 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.960 was just you know, operating with abandon for all these years. 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.040 I think that we have to be very cautious of 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.040 believing that the judicial system is going to save us. 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.920 I think we need to be people need to be 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:55.840 more skeptical than they are of where this is headed 0:18:55.840 --> 0:19:04.639 and what the outcomes are, because it is I was 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.840 thinking about this the other day. The judicial system has 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:11.639 been equipped to deal with people have political power. It 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:18.359 is equipped for people who have monetary or corporate power. 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:23.919 Is it equipped to deal with people who have both? 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:29.359 I don't know. I don't know. So I think that 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.800 we just need to be a little bit more skeptical 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:35.800 in that and just be a little just be circumspect 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:39.960 in ourselves. The other thing that I think about is 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.480 what happened in Brazil and the two totally different ways 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:47.000 that they dealt with their insurrection and we dealt with ours. 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.920 Immediately after their insurrection, a governor was forced to resign, 0:19:53.280 --> 0:20:00.159 hundreds of people were put in to jail overnight. Them 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.520 are still there and they're being processed, and now the 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:06.560 home of their president has been rated, et cetera. And that's, 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.719 you know, in less than a year after that, we 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:15.920 are now coming up on nearly four years later and 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.040 are just beginning to hold some of the people accountable. 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:24.320 That I think again should give everybody pause in a 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:32.800 moment of reflection. With regards to the upcoming election. It's 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.879 going to be I'm not even going to say unprecedented. 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:38.440 I think it's just going to be something we haven't 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:42.240 seen before. You know, unprecedented means that in the way 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:45.040 that we use it is it's without precedent. But I 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.440 think that what we are about to see is beyond 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.960 our imagination, and what we're going to go through next 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:54.600 year is something that we can't conceive. And I think 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:58.800 that we have to all get ready for that, and 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:00.480 we could have a whole show on all the various 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.600 scenarios that could play out next year. But I think 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:05.520 that we just have to get our minds ready for 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:09.000 the fact that it's going to be a say what 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:11.679 moment after a say what moment after a say what moment, 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:18.280 and I think that for trans people in particular, it's 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:23.440 going to be extremely rough. Every single major declared candidate 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:28.640 except for Chris Christy has an explicit anti trans platform. 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:32.119 I think Hutchinson, I should say, and William Hurd, but 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:35.040 essentially all of the people who could potentially become president, 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:42.800 and that means then that gender identity is going to 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:47.040 be at the very heart of their electoral strategy, both 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:50.720 for themselves and for the country, and I think that 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:54.400 that's going to add to a very toxic and dangerous 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:55.639 atmosphere for trans people. 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:02.200 Last question for you, You, knowing all of those things 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:08.359 to be true, what does safety in this time look like? 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:15.679 Mm? Huh, oh gosh. I told you, I'm not going 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:19.119 to have a lot of it like popular opinions today. 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:21.640 I've been getting to toy with the idea of say 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:25.480 what's what I what people have said in various ways 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:28.520 throughout history. You know, is the idea of safety and 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:33.359 illusion is safety temporary. It's safety something that you you 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:35.920 have and that you can lose. Right, This idea of 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:40.880 permanently being safe, is that really is that realistic? Right? 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:44.440 So that's one thing is that I'm thinking about safety 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:48.080 is being something that expands and contracts. And so if 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:50.840 I get that, then I'm less shocked that things get 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:53.680 less safe, right, because I'm like, oh, well, things can 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:56.440 get less safe. The second thing that I think about 0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:03.800 is that again, and safety is provided by the people 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:09.879 around you. If you are at a dance event like 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:14.119 Soul Summit in New York City or in the apartment 0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:19.880 building which I live or you live, who guarantees our safety? 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:25.159 It is literally the people around us. That's what guarantees 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:29.760 our safety. Right. We saw it in Lahina, you know, 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:35.240 it was ours, if not days before anyone saw any 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:39.200 authorities be present. So who guarantee their safety? Each other? 0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:42.840 So I think that we have to fundamentally think about 0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:49.600 safety as being those people who we are around and 0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:55.399 where we are around, and how we we create the 0:23:55.480 --> 0:24:03.879 spaces literally around us that will provide safety. 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:06.159 You said it was going to be unpopular, but I 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:11.440 think that that needs to be a very popular opinion 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:14.480 because you didn't just leave it at safety as an illusion. 0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:18.919 How we create safety is through community and the people 0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:22.560 around us, and I think that that is beautiful and true. 0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:27.040 Amara Jones, as always, thank you so much for making 0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:29.600 the time to join Woke aff and for all of 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:32.159 the work that you do and the voices that you 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:38.880 lift up. It is truly needed and we're grateful. 0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:42.680 Thank you well, in the vein of our conversation, we're 0:24:42.680 --> 0:24:44.159 all needed, So thank you. 0:24:49.640 --> 0:24:52.399 That is it for me today, Dear friends on Woke 0:24:52.440 --> 0:24:55.880 app as always, power to the people and to all 0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:59.520 the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.