1 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 2 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: Me your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: I am very excited to welcome back on this episode 4 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: of wok F friend of Mine and friend of the show, 5 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: Amara Jones, to talk about a myriad of issues, particularly 6 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: those that are affecting the black trans community, the black 7 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: queer community, and the queer community at large. What does 8 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: it mean to watch as headline after headline goes on 9 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: the attack on your very sense of being when what 10 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: you're reading isn't about some other group or some other place, 11 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: It is about elected officials deciding that you shouldn't exist 12 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: right and that you should be ashamed of your existence, 13 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: or that your very existence should be criminalized. And you know, 14 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: while this summer has been wild in so many different 15 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: fucking ways, with a former twice impeached, you know, rapist 16 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: president being indicted four times on ninety one charges, we 17 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: have also seen a rise in an uptick in violence 18 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: against the queer community. We have seen an uptick in 19 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: racial violence, and it's all stemming from the same poison tree, 20 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: the Republican White Supremacist Party. And so what does it 21 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: mean that when those within the black community align themselves, 22 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: whether knowingly or unknowingly, with the same talking points in 23 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: rhetoric that were used to subjugate them against the trans community, 24 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: against the black transwoman community. So we get into a 25 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: myriad of conversations about so much in this jam packed 26 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: episode with Amara Jones. Folks, I am so happy to 27 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: welcome back to WOKF After God, it feels like a 28 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: very long time CEO of Translash Media, Amara Jones, and 29 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: the host of the Webby Award honored Translash podcast and 30 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: a time one hundred honoree I mean, and documentarian and activist. 31 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: I mean, the list can go on, Amar, How are you? 32 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: It has been a really challenging summer. I would say, 33 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: let me use that word for the black queer community. 34 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: There have been some really high notes, there have been 35 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: some really low notes. So just to start out, how 36 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: are you doing? 37 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 2: I mean, luckily, just be honest. Luckily, for a lot 38 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 2: of the a lot of July, I was gone. I 39 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 2: was gone both for work and I was on vacation. 40 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 2: So that was when there was you know, a lot 41 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 2: of intense conversations. We're being polite here about black queer 42 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 2: people coming from black sis people. So I honestly think 43 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 2: that that helped my frame of mind and helped me 44 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: to be perfectly honest to not be in the center 45 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: of that hurricane, even though I was keenly aware of 46 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 2: what was happening and how it was unfolding. I feel 47 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 2: like I need to take a nap, but I feel 48 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: like it's not going to not going to happen because 49 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 2: I keep getting interrupted by everything that we're all being 50 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 2: interrupted by and more. And so I'm just trying to 51 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 2: find small ways to get through what is going to 52 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 2: be a very intense next you know, sixteen months. You know, 53 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 2: there's not going to be a let up I think 54 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: for a while, and so I am just trying to 55 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 2: get my mind around that and to figure out ways 56 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: of small ways that I can try to preserve myself 57 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 2: in the middle of it, because that's going to be 58 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: kind of the key and the solution. 59 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: I one thousand percent agree. I talk a lot on 60 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: WOKF about self care. I talk a lot about centering joy. 61 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: I talk about, you know, centering it every single day 62 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 1: and doing these small things that allow people to feel 63 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: like they are not losing their minds, to feel like 64 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: there is still hopefulness in you know, in the world. 65 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: And it's hard when you're paying attention to the headlines 66 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: every single day. It's even harder when your life is 67 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: actually a part of those headlines. It's not just something 68 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: that you're reading, it's something that you're living. And so 69 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: I do want to talk to you first about uh 70 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: the comedian and I'll put that in air quotes jefs Hilarious, 71 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: a black sis woman who took it upon herself to 72 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: engage in a conversation she is not educated for or 73 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: should be in, about black womanhood and how she feels 74 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: like it is being quote stolen by black trans women 75 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: and that she, as a sist black woman, was somehow 76 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: making herself the gatekeeper for black womanhood. And I wanted 77 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: to get to your thoughts and reaction because I got 78 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: to tell you, I had to walk myself out of 79 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: those comment sections because the people agreeing with her hateful 80 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: rhetoric are the very same people who have called this 81 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: woman outside of her name for her for her own 82 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: looks and have used right in like, used the idea 83 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: of masculinity as a way to insult her. And it's 84 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: just it is a wild circus. It was a wild circus, 85 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: so I had to walk myself out of that. But 86 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: what did you make of this back and forth that 87 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: we saw? 88 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: Just not hilarious? You mean, I thought it was incredibly sad, 89 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 2: and I thought, just on a personal note, what's sad 90 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 2: is that this is a person who is lost, and 91 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 2: I think that everyone who was joining in are equally lost. 92 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 2: In three kind of ways that stick out to me. 93 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 2: I think the first way is that just Hilarious is 94 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 2: clearly not aware that what she was doing was essentially 95 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 2: parroting talking points that were written I'm sorry, the parenting 96 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 2: talking points that were written by white supremacist as a 97 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: part of a campaign to flood the airwaves with anti 98 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 2: trans disinformation such to the point that it would seem 99 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 2: natural and people would take it upon themselves to repeat 100 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 2: those same views, therefore turning themselves into an agent of 101 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 2: white supremacy and patriarchy. So that's one thing that I 102 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: didn't understand, because what she says is exactly what they say, 103 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 2: and they've said it longer than she said it, So 104 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 2: that's where it comes from. The Second thing that I 105 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 2: felt really sad about is this is a person that 106 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 2: doesn't fully understand the way her or other, as she 107 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 2: would say, since women's bodies like her function. I mean, 108 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: there are so many people who lose their periods at 109 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,679 Speaker 2: a certain age, who have a kid and the periods 110 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: don't come back, who have an accident. Are they not women? 111 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 2: Like it just doesn't make any sense, Like it literally 112 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 2: doesn't make what she was saying, even if you were 113 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: applying it to the people that she thought that she 114 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: was talking about, it doesn't make any sense, like it 115 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: literally is nonsensical. Means you don't understand fundamentally how your 116 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: own body works or could work. And that made me 117 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 2: really sad. And that's true because we know that that's 118 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 2: that's the way that people are have been miseducated about themselves. 119 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 2: I think the third way that it was really sad 120 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 2: is that she clearly doesn't understand the history of black 121 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 2: women in America. Come on, doesn't understand that in America, 122 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: the entire enterprise to define womanhood was so that black 123 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 2: women's bodies could be exploited. And so if you are 124 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 2: getting into this conversation of about what is a woman, 125 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 2: not what's who's not a woman, then what you're essentially 126 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 2: doing is again extending white supremacists in patriarchal enterprise, and 127 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: as I said in a post, it doesn't actually matter 128 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 2: whose mouth that comes out of and the color of 129 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 2: the face attached to that mouth, it's still the exact 130 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 2: same views. And not understanding that this debate over what 131 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 2: is a woman and who's a woman, and who can't 132 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: be a woman and who can be a woman meant 133 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 2: that black women did not achieve full womanhood in the 134 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 2: United States until nineteen sixty five, until probably just hilarious 135 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: Mom in her life technically became a woman in America. 136 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: So you, by doing that is actually stimulating, recreating and 137 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 2: extending the very arguments that were rooted in your own impression. 138 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: I thought it was really sad, and I said, like, 139 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 2: I mean, I really do believe this, and I don't 140 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: say this lightly. I really do believe that. What struck 141 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 2: me is that I was like, Oh, this is a 142 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 2: person who's lost, and oh wow, there are a lot 143 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: of other lost people. You know. 144 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: What struck me is that, to your point, a person 145 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: that has lost, a person that is under educated and 146 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: miseducated about themselves, their own history, and is so easily 147 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: then made malleable by white supremact ideology because you don't 148 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: have any roots of understanding in that right, So you're 149 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: just picking up the same rhetoric and louding it at 150 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: other people as a way that you think it's building 151 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: you up right to be better in some way, But 152 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: you're standing on a pile of shit, right, And so 153 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: for me, that was you know, I'm looking at this 154 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: entire conversation, but what really troubled me were what I 155 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: perceived to be other cis black women that were in 156 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: the comments, you know, applauding her right for taking some 157 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: type of stance. And I'm saying, why do we all 158 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: tend to decide to operate from this place of scarcity, 159 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: like in order for us to expand and think about 160 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: the notion of peoplehood and womanhood and ideas around masculinity 161 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: and why we were indoctrinated in certain ways that that 162 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: means that somebody is taking something away from me. I 163 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: really don't understand that mentality, And you see it play 164 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: out everywhere. You see it play out with Ron DeSantis 165 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: and Donald Trump and white grievance, Like for there to 166 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: be a multiracial democracy, it must mean that you're taking 167 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: something from me. If I'm a white person in America, 168 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: and we just see it play out over and over again. Barbie, 169 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: the movie Barbie comes out and they say, you're taking 170 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: masculinity from you know, from men. No, we're having a 171 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: conversation about toxic masculinity and patriarchy. But it seems like 172 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: you can't do. For all the advances of mar that 173 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: we seem to make in conversation right in understanding, we 174 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: seem to take ten steps back. And I'm wondering how 175 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 1: you see us in a time when the policies that 176 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: are coming out, the anti trans policies that are coming out, 177 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: the anti LGBTQ policies that are coming out, the anti 178 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: black policies that are coming out and are being taken 179 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: up across the country. What does it look like to 180 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: really hold and center your own humanity in this moment, 181 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: Like for us all to continue to hold and center 182 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: our own humanity when we're watching the advance answers of 183 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: the last sixty years be rolled back. 184 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: I mean, I think a couple of things. I think, 185 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 2: you know, first of all, the idea of the scarcity mindset, 186 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 2: who does scarcity benefit? It benefits people who want to hoard. 187 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 2: And if you look at the history of America, it 188 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 2: was won by the hoarders. What I mean by that 189 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 2: is that, you know, when Europeans came here, Native people 190 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: in many places welcome them and said there's plenty, there's 191 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 2: enough for everybody, come on in. But the Europeans looked 192 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 2: around and said, no, there's not, and this is mine. 193 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 2: So I think that we have to realize that this 194 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 2: idea of like hoarding everything right, power, money, resources, humanity 195 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 2: is an under is an undercurrent to that predates the 196 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 2: founding of what we now call the United States of America. 197 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 2: It came with many of the people that came here 198 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 2: as settlers, and it is a mindset that we have 199 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 2: yet to figure out how to effective counter to. I'm 200 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 2: sorry to counter effectively, and so that means that it's 201 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 2: still with us and we need to do some deep 202 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 2: diving into all of that. I think the other thing, 203 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 2: how do we preserve ourselves in the middle of this. 204 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 2: I think what's amazing is that, like growing up, I 205 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 2: got to spend a lot of time with southern rural 206 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 2: black people, including my grandparents, and I often think about 207 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 2: all of the things that they did to preserve their 208 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: humanity in circumstances that I can't imagine, you know, ways 209 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: in which they emphasize community, ways in which they emphasize 210 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 2: connecting with their bodies, ways in which they gardened and 211 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 2: they farmed, and they worked on their houses and they painted, 212 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 2: and they were artistic and they were creative, and so 213 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 2: doing the things with and amongst ourselves that affirm our humanity. 214 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 2: Because the public sphere is not where we can do that, 215 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 2: right Like, that's not where that happens. And if you're 216 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: looking for the public spirit to do that, I would 217 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 2: urge you to think of something different, because that's going 218 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 2: to be a losing enterprise. You will find your humanity 219 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 2: by connecting with other people individuals that affirm your humanity 220 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 2: and in ways that are human, in ways that are 221 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 2: outside of even the digital realm. I think that right 222 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: now we are called to find the new old ways 223 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 2: of connecting with each other and with ourselves. 224 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: I think that's so important and it's something that I really, 225 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: by virtue of privilege, had the opportunity to marinate on 226 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: when we were in quarantine. Is this idea of community 227 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: and the idea of what are the things in our 228 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: lives that are truly important and what can we really 229 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: let go of that has just been weighing us down. So, 230 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: whether it is the capitalistic rat race that has us 231 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: see each other as competition instead of community, whether it's 232 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: the overloading of our work schedule, because I'm only as 233 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: valuable as I am as I am productive, right like, 234 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: it was just these different pieces of recognizing how little 235 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: by little our humanity had been robbed from us for 236 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: the benefit of other people. And so when you say 237 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: to connect as a way to reimagine or refine or 238 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: go back to our grandparents and great grandparents ideas of 239 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: what community looks like, I think that that is absolutely 240 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: right because in the social sphere alone, social media sphere alone, 241 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: I mean, my god, the toxicity is just so is 242 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: so potent, you know, I want to with a few 243 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: minutes that we have left, I do want to get 244 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: your thoughts on Trump and his ninety one charges that 245 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 1: he has against him, ninety one four indictments, ninety one charges, 246 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: the black women who are the ones that have been 247 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: steadfast in the defense of our democracy and the pursuit 248 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 1: of justice that we are seeing play out, and the 249 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: upcoming Republican And I use that in air quotes because 250 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: I don't see why we would watch a white supremacist debate, 251 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: but debate that is happening soon, and what you think 252 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: about twenty twenty four. So let's start with Trump, the 253 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: Republican front runner, and his just myriad, myriad of charges 254 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: against him. 255 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 2: I have so many unpopular opinions today. I'm just going 256 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: to continue in that vein. I mean, I think as 257 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 2: my microphone comes out of my ear my headphones, I 258 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 2: think that, like the thing that I would say about 259 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 2: Trump is I understand the hyper focus on these charges. 260 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 2: It's historic, that's never happened before. And you know Trump 261 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 2: was just you know, operating with abandon for all these years. 262 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 2: I think that we have to be very cautious of 263 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 2: believing that the judicial system is going to save us. 264 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 2: I think we need to be people need to be 265 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 2: more skeptical than they are of where this is headed 266 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 2: and what the outcomes are, because it is I was 267 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 2: thinking about this the other day. The judicial system has 268 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 2: been equipped to deal with people have political power. It 269 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 2: is equipped for people who have monetary or corporate power. 270 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 2: Is it equipped to deal with people who have both? 271 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. So I think that 272 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 2: we just need to be a little bit more skeptical 273 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 2: in that and just be a little just be circumspect 274 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 2: in ourselves. The other thing that I think about is 275 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 2: what happened in Brazil and the two totally different ways 276 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 2: that they dealt with their insurrection and we dealt with ours. 277 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 2: Immediately after their insurrection, a governor was forced to resign, 278 00:19:53,280 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 2: hundreds of people were put in to jail overnight. Them 279 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 2: are still there and they're being processed, and now the 280 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 2: home of their president has been rated, et cetera. And that's, 281 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,719 Speaker 2: you know, in less than a year after that, we 282 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 2: are now coming up on nearly four years later and 283 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 2: are just beginning to hold some of the people accountable. 284 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 2: That I think again should give everybody pause in a 285 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 2: moment of reflection. With regards to the upcoming election. It's 286 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 2: going to be I'm not even going to say unprecedented. 287 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 2: I think it's just going to be something we haven't 288 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 2: seen before. You know, unprecedented means that in the way 289 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 2: that we use it is it's without precedent. But I 290 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 2: think that what we are about to see is beyond 291 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 2: our imagination, and what we're going to go through next 292 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 2: year is something that we can't conceive. And I think 293 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 2: that we have to all get ready for that, and 294 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 2: we could have a whole show on all the various 295 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 2: scenarios that could play out next year. But I think 296 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 2: that we just have to get our minds ready for 297 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 2: the fact that it's going to be a say what 298 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 2: moment after a say what moment after a say what moment, 299 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 2: and I think that for trans people in particular, it's 300 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 2: going to be extremely rough. Every single major declared candidate 301 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 2: except for Chris Christy has an explicit anti trans platform. 302 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 2: I think Hutchinson, I should say, and William Hurd, but 303 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: essentially all of the people who could potentially become president, 304 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: and that means then that gender identity is going to 305 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 2: be at the very heart of their electoral strategy, both 306 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 2: for themselves and for the country, and I think that 307 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 2: that's going to add to a very toxic and dangerous 308 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 2: atmosphere for trans people. 309 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: Last question for you, You, knowing all of those things 310 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: to be true, what does safety in this time look like? 311 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 2: Mm? Huh, oh gosh. I told you, I'm not going 312 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 2: to have a lot of it like popular opinions today. 313 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 2: I've been getting to toy with the idea of say 314 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 2: what's what I what people have said in various ways 315 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 2: throughout history. You know, is the idea of safety and 316 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 2: illusion is safety temporary. It's safety something that you you 317 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 2: have and that you can lose. Right, This idea of 318 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 2: permanently being safe, is that really is that realistic? Right? 319 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 2: So that's one thing is that I'm thinking about safety 320 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 2: is being something that expands and contracts. And so if 321 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: I get that, then I'm less shocked that things get 322 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 2: less safe, right, because I'm like, oh, well, things can 323 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 2: get less safe. The second thing that I think about 324 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 2: is that again, and safety is provided by the people 325 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 2: around you. If you are at a dance event like 326 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 2: Soul Summit in New York City or in the apartment 327 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 2: building which I live or you live, who guarantees our safety? 328 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 2: It is literally the people around us. That's what guarantees 329 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 2: our safety. Right. We saw it in Lahina, you know, 330 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 2: it was ours, if not days before anyone saw any 331 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 2: authorities be present. So who guarantee their safety? Each other? 332 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: So I think that we have to fundamentally think about 333 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 2: safety as being those people who we are around and 334 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 2: where we are around, and how we we create the 335 00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 2: spaces literally around us that will provide safety. 336 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 1: You said it was going to be unpopular, but I 337 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: think that that needs to be a very popular opinion 338 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: because you didn't just leave it at safety as an illusion. 339 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: How we create safety is through community and the people 340 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: around us, and I think that that is beautiful and true. 341 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: Amara Jones, as always, thank you so much for making 342 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: the time to join Woke aff and for all of 343 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: the work that you do and the voices that you 344 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: lift up. It is truly needed and we're grateful. 345 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 2: Thank you well, in the vein of our conversation, we're 346 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 2: all needed, So thank you. 347 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: That is it for me today, Dear friends on Woke 348 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 1: app as always, power to the people and to all 349 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.