WEBVTT - External Exam - Working in a Drug Testing Lab with Women in Forensics Founder, Antoinette T. Campbell 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:17.480 Mother Knows Death Presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy. Hi, everyone, 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:20.959 Welcome the Mother Knows Death. On this week's external Exam, 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:25.960 we will be talking to a forensic expert. And we 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.400 always talk about forensic cases on Mother Knows Death, and 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:32.839 we just we know so much about these stories, but 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:36.640 we don't know who is involved in solving these crimes 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.839 and helping to figure out what happened in these cases. 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:41.800 So I thought it would be perfect to talk to 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.279 an old friend of mine. Her name is Antoinette Campbell, 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.000 and not only is she a forensic scientist, but she 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:51.920 is also the founder of the Association of Women in 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:56.600 Forensic Science, which is a nonprofit organization to help people 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:02.200 provide networking opportunities, resources, and programs for female college students 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.679 who are working in forensics, as well as youth that 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:08.560 is interested in forensics. So welcome today. 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.120 Hi, Hi, thank you for having me. 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:14.960 We're gonna learn all about your really awesome job. Because 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:17.200 I remember when I first met you, I had no 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.600 idea that this job even existed, so I was asking 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:22.440 you a thousand questions. So I thought, all right, I'll 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:24.759 just ask the same questions again because I think everybody 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:29.399 will be really interested. So you went to Temple University 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:33.640 here in Philadelphia around twenty years ago and you majored 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:38.679 in chemistry. So can you tell us because we know 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:42.280 obviously you work in forensics. But before you started college 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.640 around the same exact time that I did, and I 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:49.160 know the Internet existed, I guess, but I didn't have 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.760 access to it, so I had asked around the old 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:56.000 fashioned way. So how did you get introduced to forensics? 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:02.880 Yeah? Same with me, So the internet, I just became popular. Well, 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.200 came on to see you when I started college and 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.200 I found out about the field by accident. I didn't 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:12.200 know that with my chemistry background, I could become a 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:16.120 forensic chemist. So I think I was in either. It 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:18.720 might have been my junior year. I went to a 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:23.680 career fear at Temple and the Water Department was there, 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.519 the Philadelphia Water Department was there. They were promoting careers 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:31.960 to work as an analytical chemist. So I applied and 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.480 I got a letter in the mail that I could 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.320 come for an interview tour or something like that. So 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.560 I said, Okay, this sounds like something I want to do. 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.680 But then I found out that if you applied to 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.880 be a chemist. What's the city with Philly? You would 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:54.399 be considered by the police, the Water and Health department. 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.560 So I ended up when an interview at the chemistry 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.920 lab at the Philly put Police Department at eighth and Race. 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.120 That's their headquarters. Well, they used to be there at 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.880 eighth and Race. They moved on Broad Street and I 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.840 went on an interview. And during that time, I was 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:15.200 working as a pharmacy technician at the Write, a pharmacy 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.560 around my way. So I was a pre pharmacy major 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.000 and I just knew I was going to become a pharmacist. 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:25.760 And then I got interested immediately in being a forensic chemist. 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:27.840 And then I was hired to work in the chym lab. 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.800 And that was back in night now, that was in 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.000 two thousand and one. So I graduated in two thousand. 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:39.480 I started in two thousand and one at eph and Race, 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:41.560 the chemistry lab with the Philly Police. 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.000 And you worked there for twenty years, right. 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:48.200 I worked there for twenty years. I left about two 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:53.280 years ago, April two years ago. So yeah, that's that's 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:55.720 really cool. So you have a lot of experience in this, 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:59.560 and so why don't you tell us a little bit 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.880 about well, what you did working in the police lab. Like, 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.160 if you work at the police department, do you have 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.680 to be a cop? Do you have to go through 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.640 any training where you could just be a scientist working there. 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.360 So if you want to be a forensic scientist with 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.719 any law enforcement agency, so we're talking about fully police, 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:21.520 you have to have at least a bachelor's and science. 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:26.160 So most of my colleagues had their bachelors in chemistry 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:31.880 and a chemistry laboratory. So I started off working at 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:36.560 the headquarters and the chem lab analyzing drugs. So we 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:41.719 analyze confiscate confiscated drugs. We even get prescription drugs, so 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:47.920 drugs that are coming from the streets, they get transported 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.320 to our laboratory by the police and then we have 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:53.720 to analyze it. But you definitely have to have a 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:57.120 background in science to work as a forensic scientist. 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.000 Is this a job that you have to get certification 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:03.960 for or they train you on the job just with 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:05.480 your bachelor's degree. 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.920 Yeah, so you do receive on the job training. The 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:12.840 training is pretty intense. When I left, it was longer, 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:15.599 so it was taken about two years depending on which 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.599 discipline you would go into. So you don't have to 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.760 get a certification, but you do need a bachelor's at minimum. Now, 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:27.000 I do know people who worked in different units like 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:32.240 criminalistics that had their master's degrees and forensic science, but 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.440 many of them had at least a bachelor's in either 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:39.200 chemistry or biology. So you do get on the job training. 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:40.960 And I know a lot of people are concerned about that, 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.359 but you can apply to be a forensic scientist with 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:44.560 a bachelor's in science. 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.679 Okay, that's good to note because I know a lot 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.800 of kids end up going to school, they go to 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.080 college and they just get these generalized degrees in biology 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.960 and chemistry and they graduate and they say, I don't 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.120 know what to do with my life. Yeah, And that's 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:04.719 it's good to be able to tell people that because 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:07.760 I always tell people to usually go to college for 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:11.320 a program where they can learn a skill, like to 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.120 work in the lab and get certified at least for 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:14.880 a medical lab. 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:15.320 Anyway. 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:17.880 But that's really good to know because I know a 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.599 lot of really smart people that I'm thinking about calling 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.120 after this interview actually to tell them, like, hey, you know, 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:27.560 you can try to do this. So you said, so 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:29.920 this is what was really interesting to me when when 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.359 I met you, because I didn't really understand when you 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.479 said that you did drug testing. I had only rotated 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.279 at the Medical Examiner's office at that point. I know 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:43.080 that we tested you know, urine, vitreous fluid, and body 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:46.840 tissues on humans, but I didn't even realize that there 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:51.479 was a whole separate field to test drugs. So can 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.320 you you said you would get drugs off the street, 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:58.640 can you give us an example of how these drugs 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:02.240 that you received would be helped full in forensic investigations. 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:09.920 So, for example, if someone is charge with drug possession 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:15.880 or distribution and manufacturing, those drugs will be transported to 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:20.360 us by the police officers or detectives, so they have 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:24.000 to go through processing at the precinct. The drugs are 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:28.000 field tested, not all drugs, but certain drugs are field tested, 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:33.560 and when we receive the drugs in our custody, for example, 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:38.680 I'll say cocaine, there are different wet chemical tests that 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:42.480 we perform. We also do instrumental analysis, and our job 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:46.840 is to confirm the presence of a control substance, so 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:51.680 it's alleged when we receive it that is actually the 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:53.880 drug we are looking for. If we receive a powder, 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.200 we can't say like, oh, this is cocaine or this 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.880 is crack or whatever type of drug or meth. We 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:06.160 have to actually test it. We have to do estrumental analysis. 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.200 For example, one of it, one of the instruments will 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:12.680 be like mass, GC, messpeck, And then when we confirm 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:16.200 the presence of that drug, we then have to write 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.400 up laboratory reports and then we may be called to 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:23.320 municipal or federal court. So you also have to have 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:25.680 to testify in court as an expert witness as well. 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:29.520 So and you've had to do that, I'm assuming. 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.720 Yes, So I had to testify in court plenty of times. 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:39.600 There is a different difference between testifying and municipal, municipal 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:44.680 or federal court. You know, some lawyers are more knowledgeable 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.000 than others, So it depends. 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:51.000 Can you give us an example. I mean, I know, 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.000 obviously you can't say much on a lot of things, 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.360 but of some type of case that you worked on 0:08:57.440 --> 0:08:59.240 where you would have had to go to court to 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.200 testify on, is that something you're allowed to talk about. 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:05.520 Yeah, definitely, Like a lot of things, it's public information. 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.959 And I don't work in the laboratory anymore. But in general, 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:14.280 I've had cases kilos of cocaine or heroin. You see 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:18.320 a lot of those type of drugs, and if you're 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.560 called to court on that type of case, then you 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:24.400 have to go and testify. Now, you're not going to 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:29.559 remember every case that you analyze. So that's why when 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:33.959 you're called to court, the lawyer is supposed to prep 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.400 you for the case or go over certain questions they're 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.200 going to ask you so that they can get more 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:42.160 information about the type of case it is. So when 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.440 you go to testify, you can bring your case file 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:48.880 with you because you are prepping your case file for 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.360 each case that you analyze, for each type of drug 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.640 case that you analyze. So it's at that point it's 0:09:55.679 --> 0:10:00.439 a criminal investigation. We see the drugs when it is 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:05.240 already that person has been charged with a drug crime, 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.760 they violated a drug law. So that's how we get it. 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.200 So when you say you find let's say you find 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:17.480 kiloids KLA, I can't say the word of cocaine. If 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.439 they if they find a lot of it on the field, 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.440 let's say, would they bring all of that to you 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:27.439 in the drug lab or just to so you could say, 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.320 there's definitely this drug and there's this much of it, 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:32.280 because I know that that has to do with the 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:34.600 charges depending on how much a person has. 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:39.760 It depends on the amount of drugs. So if it's 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:43.200 a case that is federal, then that will go to 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:49.040 the local DEA laboratory. But if it's something that is 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.079 in our jurisdiction that we could get, then it will 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:56.920 go to our lab. So it depends on the weight 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.560 because we had to meet mandatory minimum guidelines while we 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.440 were analyzing drugs. We have to weigh the drugs. So 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:08.719 we definitely have seen all types of drugs, like I've 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.719 seen hero I'll be in alive heroin. We get a 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:16.439 lot of heroin and silly unfortunately, and marijuana. Back when 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.880 I was working in the laboratory, I was seeing a 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:26.719 lot of marijuana, PCPs, syrup, all different types of drugs. 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:29.800 So over the course of your twenty years and this 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:34.040 is this is kind of interesting actually, because marijuana became 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:39.360 decriminalized in Philadelphia I think in twenty fourteen, was it, Yeah, 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:43.360 twenty fourteen, so you were obviously working there during that time. 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.920 What are there trends in drugs like this year, this 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:51.000 drug was really hot, and then marijuana got decriminalized. Now 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.320 you don't see that as much after that, Like how 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:55.560 could you speak about that? 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.559 So when I was working in the laboratory during that time, 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.160 we were still getting a lot of marijuana samples and 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.400 we have to weigh the drugs. So I believe it 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.280 was thirty milligrams. So if someone I believe it is 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.480 still that way, I'm not sure if they were caught 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.480 with thirty milligrams or drugs, it was a fine they 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.480 would get, they would get fined, or they would have 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:24.160 to do some time in jail. But it wasn't as 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.760 you know, like forced like it was before as far 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.840 as like what the laws were with marijuana. But I know, 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.600 even ever since I left, we have the twenty eighteen 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:39.400 Farm Bill that was passed, so that wasn't an effect 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:44.560 while I was working in laboratory with the Canada marijuana. 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.400 So what would you say, is is the most common 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.400 drug that you see? I guess that varies from city 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.000 to city, but in the Philadelphia area, what's the most 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.600 common drug that you would come across. 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.440 I would say the most common drug and pilatuh of 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:06.520 course it's herromin from methazine with coding on the streets, 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:11.720 they call it lean and cocaine. 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.520 Is that like the cough medicine with the coating. 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:19.080 Yeah, we I mean, I've analyzed so much of that 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:23.360 and and it's unfortunate, but a lot of people you 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:29.160 even see UH rappers and singers still drinking it like 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.520 it's a soda or something. So prom methazine with coding 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:34.760 is heavily abused. 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.679 That's that's really interesting. Yeah, So in our lab we 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.800 use UH. In the medical lab, we use something called 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:47.479 universal precautions, which is like we don't know what specimen 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.640 we're touching or what person we're touching, and what disease 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.280 they might have, So we always go in with every 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.880 person thinking that they have HIV HEPSI, like the worst stuff. 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.120 And do you guys do something like that when you 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:04.080 handle drugs, just because certain ones if you touch or 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.080 something could maybe you could have an exposure to do 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.280 you have you ever heard of anyone in your field 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:11.760 having like an accidental exposure to a drug. 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.760 So I don't know of anyone that had exposure to drugs, 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.800 but we definitely have received drugs and I've analyzed drugs 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:24.320 from mules people that were mule and drugs. We receive 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:29.200 drugs where the ebanus bag was marked HEP or HIV, 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.440 so we knew to take extra precautions. We had a 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.800 biohazard bucket that we had to make sure we disposed 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.240 dispose of things properly, and we also had to make 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:44.280 sure we wore ppe at all times. I've had colleagues 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:49.920 that had to analyze some nasty cases from people who 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:55.720 may have drugs and feces. Of course, you've had drugs 0:14:55.800 --> 0:15:00.280 that had blood on it, So yeah, I've an a 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.000 a lot of those type of drugs, and I've also 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.520 saw colleagues who had really nasty cases as well. So yeah, 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:11.000 we always had to take precautions while analyzing drugs because 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.840 they come from everywhere. It could come from someone's body 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:19.000 cavity or the dumpster or the ground. So we saw 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:20.080 a lot of gross things. 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.240 And what about fat and all, Like, I'm not really 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.520 too familiar with it, but you hear about these cases 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:32.400 of police officers being exposed to little amounts and passing out. 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.960 Do you think that that's some because there is a 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.920 debate if that's possible or not, and just these minimal 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:42.480 amounts people are exposed to they're having reactions to. Is 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.600 that something that you guys have been trained for? 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.000 Yeah, that's true. Actually that was the turning point for 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:51.000 me where I decided I didn't want to work in 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:55.640 the laboratory anymore when I had to get in NARCAN training. So, yeah, 0:15:55.760 --> 0:16:00.560 we were seeing a lot of heroin spike with fentanyl 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:05.160 before it was public knowledge of it, before it was mainstream. 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.360 We were seeing in the laboratory the medical examiners where 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:15.840 they communicate with the laboratories, especially if it's the just 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.360 the drug unit, it doesn't matter, and they were seeing 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.600 overdoses and we were seeing it in drugs, and yeah, 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:27.880 we had to get NARCAN training and that changed our ppe. 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.400 It went from us wearing thin nightrial gloves to having 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:35.160 to wear thicker gloves. And when you're working with thicker gloves, 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:38.800 it's much harder to open up the little coke packets 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:42.360 or marijuana packets or the heroin package. We had to 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.280 we had to wear the N ninety five masks, and 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.560 we had to do that because fentanyl was not only 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.520 in the heroin, It could be in coke, It could 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.080 be in any powder. So they wanted us to be 0:16:56.160 --> 0:17:01.840 careful and because it's so deadly even with micro doses 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.480 of it being in contact with your skin or in 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:07.760 helling it. I was just at the point where you know, 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:12.400 I I'm ready to go over explood quality assurance at 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.800 this point, And that was right then where I was. 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:18.439 I just was like, this is just too much. 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:23.680 Yeah, it's not worth your life, right, No, I totally understand, 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.600 especially when you're a mom and everything. It's just kind 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:28.680 of like, this would be so stupid if I died 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:30.159 at my job right now because of this. 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.960 Yeah, like having to give someone narcan and you know 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:37.960 that's something that we should be trained to do, but yeah, 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.000 yeah I did. I had to get Narcan training. So, 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:43.639 oh my god, that's so scary. 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.399 So when you have all these drugs in the lab, 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.120 what happens to the drugs after you guys are done 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:50.920 testing with them. 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.439 So after we're done testing the drugs, we have to 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.240 package the drugs back up in the ebanus bag, make 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:00.680 sure that it's stealed properly, and then it goes back 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:05.880 to the ebinist locker and it remains there until the 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:09.119 case goes to court or the case is done with 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:12.639 and they are able to destroy the drugs after a 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:14.880 certain amount of years when the case is over. 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:18.080 So when they do that, do they just bring them 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.360 to a place and incinerate them or something like? How 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:21.880 does that go? 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.840 Yeah, it always goes to this secret location. We never 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.000 know where those drugs. They call it a burn. Those 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.119 drugs are, like you say, in the cinerator, and we 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.639 don't know the location of where it goes. 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:37.359 Oh, that's really interesting. As a forensic scientists, you ever 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.760 have to go on the scene. So you said they 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:43.200 do field testing. That's when they test where they find it. 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:45.720 Is that something a person like you would do or 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:47.320 is that just something that the police do. 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.640 So the police officers has something called a field test 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.320 kit and it contains the same chemicals that we use 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:59.680 to test certain drugs. So I'll do sill testing for cocaine, marijuana, 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.879 and heroin and I think methophetic me but it's the 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:08.480 same chemicals, and they do it for to see if 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:13.800 it's actually that drug that that person is getting arrested for, 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:16.879 and then they could use those results in preliminary hearing. 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:21.760 But we will have to retest it because when we 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.359 test it, it's done in a more controlled environment. Forensic 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:29.800 scientists are not required to go out on the field, 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:33.439 and that's the misconception about our job because many people 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.679 they watch a lot of television and they assume that 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.760 we're out on the crime scene collecting the drugs and 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.240 bringing it back and testing it. However, I have met 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.720 some forensic scientists in different parts of the country who 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.200 actually go out to the scene and they come into 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:54.320 the laboratory and they analyze the drugs. But the jurisdiction 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:57.800 where I worked, we didn't do that. We were strictly 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:03.600 in the laboratory all It wasn't nothing glamorous like people 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:08.840 see on television. And although I was invited to go 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:10.879 out to scenes by the crime scene unit, I was 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:15.600 never interested in going out to the scenes to just 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:17.920 to see like ride along to see what they did. 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:20.399 I never did a ride along to see how they 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.520 collected evidence. What we did was we were in the 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:29.040 laboratory all day at our bench, working our cases. We 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:32.680 had cases assigned to us every day, so say for example, 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:36.560 you would get ten cases a day or it depended 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.119 on your inventory. So if you already had like thirty 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:44.040 cases in your lock beIN. Everybody in the laboratory who 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:48.200 was a chemist had their own lock ben we had 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:51.080 the key, it was locked. We had to make sure 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.960 that we secured our evidence because chain of custody is 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:55.760 very important. We have to make sure that we know 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:57.879 where the evidence is at all times. If it's not 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.159 with us, then it's in the evidence SLocker and we 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.800 have to track it. But yeah, people will always ask 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:06.880 me about going out on a scene. I've never been 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:07.919 out on a crime scene. 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:11.879 It's funny because a common theme that's coming up in 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.080 these interviews when I'm interviewing all these scientists is that, 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:17.520 like they say, it's not like it is on TV 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:21.000 and it looks I think a lot of people watch 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.440 all these TV shows and they think it's so glamorous 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:25.720 and it looks like the coolest job ever. I even 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:28.600 tell a lot of my followers on Instagram that I 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:31.160 make the job look way cooler than it is because 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:33.720 it's just like kind of a drag work in there, 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:33.960 you know. 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:34.879 Yeah. 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:38.320 Yeah, it's like working in a cubicle all day. It's 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:41.719 not very exciting. 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.480 And you do have and I did have a cubicle. 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:48.320 So we have our administrative area outside of the laboratory 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:50.719 where we have a I know where I worked at. 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:55.200 We had our own desks, so and it was kind 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:57.680 of plushed like we had our own desk. We had 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:00.960 lab assistants who made the re agents. Then we would 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:03.320 go in the laboratory and we would work at our bench. 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:07.320 So we had fume hoods and microscopes and scales and 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:11.879 instruments that we use. So it is really cool too, 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:16.080 but it's it's like repetitious as you do the same 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:18.600 thing every day. The only thing that changes is the 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:23.240 drugs and the amount of drugs. You analyze the same drugs, 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:27.720 but the amount changes. It's a lot of PaperWorks. It's 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:28.560 a tedious job. 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:32.840 It's not easy, yeah, and it's important because you could 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:36.639 be responsible for sending someone to jail for a long time, 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:39.359 so that weighs on your shoulders a lot. I'm sure 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:42.760 you don't want anybody serving time that shouldn't be, you know. 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.880 Yeah, And that's why every report that we put out, 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:52.439 it's peer reviewed by another analyst to make sure that 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:57.080 those tests were performed correctly, that you have the correct results. 0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:01.480 So in the drug unit is not as likely as 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:05.199 someone to probably you know, I know it's in the 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:09.399 news sometimes somebody tested the wrong drug, but We have 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:13.080 so many checks and balances, we have a quality assurance program, 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:16.520 we have peer reviews. It's not like you're examining a 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:19.360 drug case and then you're just putting the results out. 0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:23.080 I know there's some laboratories that had some issues with 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:26.040 people doing it because they they didn't have a really 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:32.040 uh a tight quality assurance program or babe, they weren't accredited, 0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:34.160 but you couldn't. You can be accredited and still could 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:37.399 be mistakes. Being accredited doesn't mean that you're not going 0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:38.600 to make any mistakes. 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:42.280 So I'm just trying to see if we can figure 0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:46.520 out just the scale of the Philadelphia lapse. So you 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:49.600 you worked at you just said, and Race was at 0:23:49.600 --> 0:23:52.320 the sign the circular building. 0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:54.280 That you I started out of eph and Race and 0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:57.520 then we moved to Aph and Poplar. So, oh okay, Well, 0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:02.920