1 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death Presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy. Hi, everyone, 2 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: Welcome the Mother Knows Death. On this week's external Exam, 3 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: we will be talking to a forensic expert. And we 4 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: always talk about forensic cases on Mother Knows Death, and 5 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: we just we know so much about these stories, but 6 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: we don't know who is involved in solving these crimes 7 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: and helping to figure out what happened in these cases. 8 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: So I thought it would be perfect to talk to 9 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,279 Speaker 1: an old friend of mine. Her name is Antoinette Campbell, 10 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: and not only is she a forensic scientist, but she 11 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: is also the founder of the Association of Women in 12 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: Forensic Science, which is a nonprofit organization to help people 13 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: provide networking opportunities, resources, and programs for female college students 14 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: who are working in forensics, as well as youth that 15 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: is interested in forensics. So welcome today. 16 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 2: Hi, Hi, thank you for having me. 17 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 1: We're gonna learn all about your really awesome job. Because 18 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: I remember when I first met you, I had no 19 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: idea that this job even existed, so I was asking 20 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: you a thousand questions. So I thought, all right, I'll 21 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 1: just ask the same questions again because I think everybody 22 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: will be really interested. So you went to Temple University 23 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: here in Philadelphia around twenty years ago and you majored 24 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: in chemistry. So can you tell us because we know 25 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: obviously you work in forensics. But before you started college 26 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: around the same exact time that I did, and I 27 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: know the Internet existed, I guess, but I didn't have 28 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: access to it, so I had asked around the old 29 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: fashioned way. So how did you get introduced to forensics? 30 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? Same with me, So the internet, I just became popular. Well, 31 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: came on to see you when I started college and 32 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: I found out about the field by accident. I didn't 33 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: know that with my chemistry background, I could become a 34 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: forensic chemist. So I think I was in either. It 35 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: might have been my junior year. I went to a 36 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 2: career fear at Temple and the Water Department was there, 37 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 2: the Philadelphia Water Department was there. They were promoting careers 38 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 2: to work as an analytical chemist. So I applied and 39 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: I got a letter in the mail that I could 40 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 2: come for an interview tour or something like that. So 41 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: I said, Okay, this sounds like something I want to do. 42 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 2: But then I found out that if you applied to 43 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 2: be a chemist. What's the city with Philly? You would 44 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:54,399 Speaker 2: be considered by the police, the Water and Health department. 45 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: So I ended up when an interview at the chemistry 46 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 2: lab at the Philly put Police Department at eighth and Race. 47 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: That's their headquarters. Well, they used to be there at 48 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 2: eighth and Race. They moved on Broad Street and I 49 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: went on an interview. And during that time, I was 50 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 2: working as a pharmacy technician at the Write, a pharmacy 51 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 2: around my way. So I was a pre pharmacy major 52 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: and I just knew I was going to become a pharmacist. 53 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: And then I got interested immediately in being a forensic chemist. 54 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: And then I was hired to work in the chym lab. 55 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 2: And that was back in night now, that was in 56 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: two thousand and one. So I graduated in two thousand. 57 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 2: I started in two thousand and one at eph and Race, 58 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 2: the chemistry lab with the Philly Police. 59 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: And you worked there for twenty years, right. 60 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: I worked there for twenty years. I left about two 61 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: years ago, April two years ago. So yeah, that's that's 62 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: really cool. So you have a lot of experience in this, 63 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: and so why don't you tell us a little bit 64 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: about well, what you did working in the police lab. Like, 65 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: if you work at the police department, do you have 66 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: to be a cop? Do you have to go through 67 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: any training where you could just be a scientist working there. 68 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: So if you want to be a forensic scientist with 69 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 2: any law enforcement agency, so we're talking about fully police, 70 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 2: you have to have at least a bachelor's and science. 71 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 2: So most of my colleagues had their bachelors in chemistry 72 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 2: and a chemistry laboratory. So I started off working at 73 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: the headquarters and the chem lab analyzing drugs. So we 74 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 2: analyze confiscate confiscated drugs. We even get prescription drugs, so 75 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 2: drugs that are coming from the streets, they get transported 76 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 2: to our laboratory by the police and then we have 77 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 2: to analyze it. But you definitely have to have a 78 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 2: background in science to work as a forensic scientist. 79 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: Is this a job that you have to get certification 80 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: for or they train you on the job just with 81 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: your bachelor's degree. 82 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you do receive on the job training. The 83 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 2: training is pretty intense. When I left, it was longer, 84 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 2: so it was taken about two years depending on which 85 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 2: discipline you would go into. So you don't have to 86 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: get a certification, but you do need a bachelor's at minimum. Now, 87 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: I do know people who worked in different units like 88 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: criminalistics that had their master's degrees and forensic science, but 89 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 2: many of them had at least a bachelor's in either 90 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: chemistry or biology. So you do get on the job training. 91 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: And I know a lot of people are concerned about that, 92 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 2: but you can apply to be a forensic scientist with 93 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 2: a bachelor's in science. 94 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,679 Speaker 1: Okay, that's good to note because I know a lot 95 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: of kids end up going to school, they go to 96 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: college and they just get these generalized degrees in biology 97 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: and chemistry and they graduate and they say, I don't 98 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: know what to do with my life. Yeah, And that's 99 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: it's good to be able to tell people that because 100 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: I always tell people to usually go to college for 101 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: a program where they can learn a skill, like to 102 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: work in the lab and get certified at least for 103 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: a medical lab. 104 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: Anyway. 105 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: But that's really good to know because I know a 106 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: lot of really smart people that I'm thinking about calling 107 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: after this interview actually to tell them, like, hey, you know, 108 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: you can try to do this. So you said, so 109 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: this is what was really interesting to me when when 110 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 1: I met you, because I didn't really understand when you 111 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: said that you did drug testing. I had only rotated 112 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: at the Medical Examiner's office at that point. I know 113 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: that we tested you know, urine, vitreous fluid, and body 114 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 1: tissues on humans, but I didn't even realize that there 115 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: was a whole separate field to test drugs. So can 116 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: you you said you would get drugs off the street, 117 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: can you give us an example of how these drugs 118 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: that you received would be helped full in forensic investigations. 119 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: So, for example, if someone is charge with drug possession 120 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 2: or distribution and manufacturing, those drugs will be transported to 121 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 2: us by the police officers or detectives, so they have 122 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: to go through processing at the precinct. The drugs are 123 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: field tested, not all drugs, but certain drugs are field tested, 124 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 2: and when we receive the drugs in our custody, for example, 125 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: I'll say cocaine, there are different wet chemical tests that 126 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 2: we perform. We also do instrumental analysis, and our job 127 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 2: is to confirm the presence of a control substance, so 128 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: it's alleged when we receive it that is actually the 129 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 2: drug we are looking for. If we receive a powder, 130 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: we can't say like, oh, this is cocaine or this 131 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: is crack or whatever type of drug or meth. We 132 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: have to actually test it. We have to do estrumental analysis. 133 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: For example, one of it, one of the instruments will 134 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 2: be like mass, GC, messpeck, And then when we confirm 135 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 2: the presence of that drug, we then have to write 136 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 2: up laboratory reports and then we may be called to 137 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: municipal or federal court. So you also have to have 138 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: to testify in court as an expert witness as well. 139 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: So and you've had to do that, I'm assuming. 140 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 2: Yes, So I had to testify in court plenty of times. 141 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 2: There is a different difference between testifying and municipal, municipal 142 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 2: or federal court. You know, some lawyers are more knowledgeable 143 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 2: than others, So it depends. 144 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: Can you give us an example. I mean, I know, 145 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: obviously you can't say much on a lot of things, 146 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: but of some type of case that you worked on 147 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: where you would have had to go to court to 148 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: testify on, is that something you're allowed to talk about. 149 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, Like a lot of things, it's public information. 150 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 2: And I don't work in the laboratory anymore. But in general, 151 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 2: I've had cases kilos of cocaine or heroin. You see 152 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 2: a lot of those type of drugs, and if you're 153 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 2: called to court on that type of case, then you 154 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 2: have to go and testify. Now, you're not going to 155 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 2: remember every case that you analyze. So that's why when 156 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 2: you're called to court, the lawyer is supposed to prep 157 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 2: you for the case or go over certain questions they're 158 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: going to ask you so that they can get more 159 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 2: information about the type of case it is. So when 160 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 2: you go to testify, you can bring your case file 161 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 2: with you because you are prepping your case file for 162 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: each case that you analyze, for each type of drug 163 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 2: case that you analyze. So it's at that point it's 164 00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 2: a criminal investigation. We see the drugs when it is 165 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 2: already that person has been charged with a drug crime, 166 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: they violated a drug law. So that's how we get it. 167 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: So when you say you find let's say you find 168 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: kiloids KLA, I can't say the word of cocaine. If 169 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 1: they if they find a lot of it on the field, 170 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: let's say, would they bring all of that to you 171 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 1: in the drug lab or just to so you could say, 172 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: there's definitely this drug and there's this much of it, 173 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: because I know that that has to do with the 174 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: charges depending on how much a person has. 175 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 2: It depends on the amount of drugs. So if it's 176 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 2: a case that is federal, then that will go to 177 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 2: the local DEA laboratory. But if it's something that is 178 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 2: in our jurisdiction that we could get, then it will 179 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 2: go to our lab. So it depends on the weight 180 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 2: because we had to meet mandatory minimum guidelines while we 181 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 2: were analyzing drugs. We have to weigh the drugs. So 182 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:08,719 Speaker 2: we definitely have seen all types of drugs, like I've 183 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,719 Speaker 2: seen hero I'll be in alive heroin. We get a 184 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 2: lot of heroin and silly unfortunately, and marijuana. Back when 185 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 2: I was working in the laboratory, I was seeing a 186 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:26,719 Speaker 2: lot of marijuana, PCPs, syrup, all different types of drugs. 187 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: So over the course of your twenty years and this 188 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: is this is kind of interesting actually, because marijuana became 189 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: decriminalized in Philadelphia I think in twenty fourteen, was it, Yeah, 190 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, so you were obviously working there during that time. 191 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: What are there trends in drugs like this year, this 192 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: drug was really hot, and then marijuana got decriminalized. Now 193 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: you don't see that as much after that, Like how 194 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: could you speak about that? 195 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 2: So when I was working in the laboratory during that time, 196 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 2: we were still getting a lot of marijuana samples and 197 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 2: we have to weigh the drugs. So I believe it 198 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 2: was thirty milligrams. So if someone I believe it is 199 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 2: still that way, I'm not sure if they were caught 200 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 2: with thirty milligrams or drugs, it was a fine they 201 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 2: would get, they would get fined, or they would have 202 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 2: to do some time in jail. But it wasn't as 203 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 2: you know, like forced like it was before as far 204 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 2: as like what the laws were with marijuana. But I know, 205 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: even ever since I left, we have the twenty eighteen 206 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 2: Farm Bill that was passed, so that wasn't an effect 207 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 2: while I was working in laboratory with the Canada marijuana. 208 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: So what would you say, is is the most common 209 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: drug that you see? I guess that varies from city 210 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: to city, but in the Philadelphia area, what's the most 211 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: common drug that you would come across. 212 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 2: I would say the most common drug and pilatuh of 213 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 2: course it's herromin from methazine with coding on the streets, 214 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 2: they call it lean and cocaine. 215 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: Is that like the cough medicine with the coating. 216 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, we I mean, I've analyzed so much of that 217 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 2: and and it's unfortunate, but a lot of people you 218 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 2: even see UH rappers and singers still drinking it like 219 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 2: it's a soda or something. So prom methazine with coding 220 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 2: is heavily abused. 221 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: That's that's really interesting. Yeah, So in our lab we 222 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: use UH. In the medical lab, we use something called 223 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:47,479 Speaker 1: universal precautions, which is like we don't know what specimen 224 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: we're touching or what person we're touching, and what disease 225 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: they might have, So we always go in with every 226 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: person thinking that they have HIV HEPSI, like the worst stuff. 227 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: And do you guys do something like that when you 228 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: handle drugs, just because certain ones if you touch or 229 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: something could maybe you could have an exposure to do 230 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: you have you ever heard of anyone in your field 231 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: having like an accidental exposure to a drug. 232 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 2: So I don't know of anyone that had exposure to drugs, 233 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 2: but we definitely have received drugs and I've analyzed drugs 234 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 2: from mules people that were mule and drugs. We receive 235 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 2: drugs where the ebanus bag was marked HEP or HIV, 236 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 2: so we knew to take extra precautions. We had a 237 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: biohazard bucket that we had to make sure we disposed 238 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 2: dispose of things properly, and we also had to make 239 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 2: sure we wore ppe at all times. I've had colleagues 240 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: that had to analyze some nasty cases from people who 241 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 2: may have drugs and feces. Of course, you've had drugs 242 00:14:55,800 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 2: that had blood on it, So yeah, I've an a 243 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 2: a lot of those type of drugs, and I've also 244 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 2: saw colleagues who had really nasty cases as well. So yeah, 245 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: we always had to take precautions while analyzing drugs because 246 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 2: they come from everywhere. It could come from someone's body 247 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 2: cavity or the dumpster or the ground. So we saw 248 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 2: a lot of gross things. 249 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: And what about fat and all, Like, I'm not really 250 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: too familiar with it, but you hear about these cases 251 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: of police officers being exposed to little amounts and passing out. 252 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: Do you think that that's some because there is a 253 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: debate if that's possible or not, and just these minimal 254 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: amounts people are exposed to they're having reactions to. Is 255 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: that something that you guys have been trained for? 256 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Actually that was the turning point for 257 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 2: me where I decided I didn't want to work in 258 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: the laboratory anymore when I had to get in NARCAN training. So, yeah, 259 00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 2: we were seeing a lot of heroin spike with fentanyl 260 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 2: before it was public knowledge of it, before it was mainstream. 261 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 2: We were seeing in the laboratory the medical examiners where 262 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 2: they communicate with the laboratories, especially if it's the just 263 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 2: the drug unit, it doesn't matter, and they were seeing 264 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 2: overdoses and we were seeing it in drugs, and yeah, 265 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 2: we had to get NARCAN training and that changed our ppe. 266 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 2: It went from us wearing thin nightrial gloves to having 267 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 2: to wear thicker gloves. And when you're working with thicker gloves, 268 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 2: it's much harder to open up the little coke packets 269 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 2: or marijuana packets or the heroin package. We had to 270 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 2: we had to wear the N ninety five masks, and 271 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 2: we had to do that because fentanyl was not only 272 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 2: in the heroin, It could be in coke, It could 273 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 2: be in any powder. So they wanted us to be 274 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 2: careful and because it's so deadly even with micro doses 275 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 2: of it being in contact with your skin or in 276 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: helling it. I was just at the point where you know, 277 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 2: I I'm ready to go over explood quality assurance at 278 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 2: this point, And that was right then where I was. 279 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 2: I just was like, this is just too much. 280 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not worth your life, right, No, I totally understand, 281 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: especially when you're a mom and everything. It's just kind 282 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: of like, this would be so stupid if I died 283 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: at my job right now because of this. 284 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, like having to give someone narcan and you know 285 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 2: that's something that we should be trained to do, but yeah, 286 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: yeah I did. I had to get Narcan training. So, 287 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 2: oh my god, that's so scary. 288 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: So when you have all these drugs in the lab, 289 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: what happens to the drugs after you guys are done 290 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: testing with them. 291 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 2: So after we're done testing the drugs, we have to 292 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 2: package the drugs back up in the ebanus bag, make 293 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 2: sure that it's stealed properly, and then it goes back 294 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 2: to the ebinist locker and it remains there until the 295 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 2: case goes to court or the case is done with 296 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 2: and they are able to destroy the drugs after a 297 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 2: certain amount of years when the case is over. 298 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: So when they do that, do they just bring them 299 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 1: to a place and incinerate them or something like? How 300 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: does that go? 301 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it always goes to this secret location. We never 302 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 2: know where those drugs. They call it a burn. Those 303 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 2: drugs are, like you say, in the cinerator, and we 304 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 2: don't know the location of where it goes. 305 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 1: Oh, that's really interesting. As a forensic scientists, you ever 306 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: have to go on the scene. So you said they 307 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: do field testing. That's when they test where they find it. 308 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: Is that something a person like you would do or 309 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: is that just something that the police do. 310 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 2: So the police officers has something called a field test 311 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 2: kit and it contains the same chemicals that we use 312 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 2: to test certain drugs. So I'll do sill testing for cocaine, marijuana, 313 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 2: and heroin and I think methophetic me but it's the 314 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 2: same chemicals, and they do it for to see if 315 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 2: it's actually that drug that that person is getting arrested for, 316 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 2: and then they could use those results in preliminary hearing. 317 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 2: But we will have to retest it because when we 318 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 2: test it, it's done in a more controlled environment. Forensic 319 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 2: scientists are not required to go out on the field, 320 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,439 Speaker 2: and that's the misconception about our job because many people 321 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 2: they watch a lot of television and they assume that 322 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 2: we're out on the crime scene collecting the drugs and 323 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 2: bringing it back and testing it. However, I have met 324 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 2: some forensic scientists in different parts of the country who 325 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 2: actually go out to the scene and they come into 326 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 2: the laboratory and they analyze the drugs. But the jurisdiction 327 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 2: where I worked, we didn't do that. We were strictly 328 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 2: in the laboratory all It wasn't nothing glamorous like people 329 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 2: see on television. And although I was invited to go 330 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 2: out to scenes by the crime scene unit, I was 331 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 2: never interested in going out to the scenes to just 332 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 2: to see like ride along to see what they did. 333 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 2: I never did a ride along to see how they 334 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 2: collected evidence. What we did was we were in the 335 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 2: laboratory all day at our bench, working our cases. We 336 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 2: had cases assigned to us every day, so say for example, 337 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 2: you would get ten cases a day or it depended 338 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 2: on your inventory. So if you already had like thirty 339 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: cases in your lock beIN. Everybody in the laboratory who 340 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 2: was a chemist had their own lock ben we had 341 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 2: the key, it was locked. We had to make sure 342 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 2: that we secured our evidence because chain of custody is 343 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 2: very important. We have to make sure that we know 344 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 2: where the evidence is at all times. If it's not 345 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 2: with us, then it's in the evidence SLocker and we 346 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 2: have to track it. But yeah, people will always ask 347 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 2: me about going out on a scene. I've never been 348 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 2: out on a crime scene. 349 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: It's funny because a common theme that's coming up in 350 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: these interviews when I'm interviewing all these scientists is that, 351 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: like they say, it's not like it is on TV 352 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: and it looks I think a lot of people watch 353 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: all these TV shows and they think it's so glamorous 354 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: and it looks like the coolest job ever. I even 355 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: tell a lot of my followers on Instagram that I 356 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: make the job look way cooler than it is because 357 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: it's just like kind of a drag work in there, 358 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: you know. 359 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 2: Yeah. 360 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like working in a cubicle all day. It's 361 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 1: not very exciting. 362 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 2: And you do have and I did have a cubicle. 363 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 2: So we have our administrative area outside of the laboratory 364 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,719 Speaker 2: where we have a I know where I worked at. 365 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 2: We had our own desks, so and it was kind 366 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 2: of plushed like we had our own desk. We had 367 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 2: lab assistants who made the re agents. Then we would 368 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 2: go in the laboratory and we would work at our bench. 369 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 2: So we had fume hoods and microscopes and scales and 370 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 2: instruments that we use. So it is really cool too, 371 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 2: but it's it's like repetitious as you do the same 372 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 2: thing every day. The only thing that changes is the 373 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 2: drugs and the amount of drugs. You analyze the same drugs, 374 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 2: but the amount changes. It's a lot of PaperWorks. It's 375 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 2: a tedious job. 376 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: It's not easy, yeah, and it's important because you could 377 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: be responsible for sending someone to jail for a long time, 378 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: so that weighs on your shoulders a lot. I'm sure 379 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: you don't want anybody serving time that shouldn't be, you know. 380 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's why every report that we put out, 381 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 2: it's peer reviewed by another analyst to make sure that 382 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 2: those tests were performed correctly, that you have the correct results. 383 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 2: So in the drug unit is not as likely as 384 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 2: someone to probably you know, I know it's in the 385 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 2: news sometimes somebody tested the wrong drug, but We have 386 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 2: so many checks and balances, we have a quality assurance program, 387 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: we have peer reviews. It's not like you're examining a 388 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 2: drug case and then you're just putting the results out. 389 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 2: I know there's some laboratories that had some issues with 390 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 2: people doing it because they they didn't have a really 391 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 2: uh a tight quality assurance program or babe, they weren't accredited, 392 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 2: but you couldn't. You can be accredited and still could 393 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 2: be mistakes. Being accredited doesn't mean that you're not going 394 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 2: to make any mistakes. 395 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to see if we can figure 396 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: out just the scale of the Philadelphia lapse. So you 397 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: you worked at you just said, and Race was at 398 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: the sign the circular building. 399 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 2: That you I started out of eph and Race and 400 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 2: then we moved to Aph and Poplar. So, oh okay, Well, 401 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 2: the Forensic Science la Vatory of Philadelphia is a EFHAN popular. 402 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: And that was the only one for the entire city. 403 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,199 Speaker 2: Only one for the entire city. So inside of that 404 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 2: building you have the crime scene unit, the Chrominalistics Unit 405 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 2: on which is made up of also DNA, the DNA units. 406 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 2: Oh okay, in documents, firearms, crime scene documents, all. 407 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: And how many people were working there that were doing 408 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 1: your job exactly. 409 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 2: I was saying the chemistry unit, it was a lot 410 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,880 Speaker 2: of us. It had to be about I don't know, 411 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 2: twenty something of us, yeah, twenty five of us maybe. 412 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: And then you get you were like, what would be 413 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: the average of cases that you would work on a day? 414 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 2: The average cases I used to work on a day 415 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 2: before I became a senior analyst, and I wasn't getting 416 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: as many cases. Probably was like I always had at 417 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 2: least fifteen to twenty cases. Maybe. 418 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a lot for twenty for twenty people 419 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: to each have that many passes. 420 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 2: I remember when we get the cases, the cases go 421 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 2: in sequential order of numbers. You know, it's the year 422 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 2: and then the number case it is. I remember when 423 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 2: I was working, we were up like almost thirty thousand 424 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 2: cases for the year. Well there's a lot of drugs 425 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 2: in Philly, Yes, clearly. I mean I remember seeing numbers 426 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 2: like over twenty thousand, almost thirty thousand cases. Oh yeah, 427 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 2: just by you looking at the lab, I d number. 428 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: It's funny how you say, like the job's kind of 429 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: like a boring office job, and it's like your friends 430 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: you're eating lunch with or like checking guns and doing 431 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: DNA and all this stuff. It's it just I understand 432 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: though totally. You're working with all this crazy stuff. But 433 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: after for every person, you just get used to it 434 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: after a while. 435 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, you get used to it. I mean you get 436 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 2: used to laying out hundreds of packets of blue glaze 437 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 2: heroin packets. I mean that's the thing in Philly. Our 438 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 2: heroin packets are blue glaze packets inside of a glassy 439 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 2: It's a glass sen blue glaze packet inside of a 440 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 2: clear packet with logos. So that's our thing with heroin. 441 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 2: And you just see different logos and you see all 442 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 2: different types of pills, and you could be working on 443 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 2: a brick of marijuana. You could get a bag full 444 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 2: of marijuana plants or see. I think this is cool 445 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 2: because their whole day is you analyzing drugs, doing your cases. 446 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 2: You go from case to case. You gotta test it. 447 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 2: You do presumptive color tests. All drugs have different colors 448 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 2: tests we have to do. And this is a part 449 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 2: of your training. When you get trained, you have to 450 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 2: go through the different type of classes of drugs, the theory, 451 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 2: and you have to take competency exams, you have to do, 452 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 2: mock trials, you have to do It's like you're constantly 453 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 2: learning all the time. It's never ending. 454 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 1: This episode is being brought to you today by my book, 455 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: Nicole and Jemmy's Anatomy. If you didn't get what you 456 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 1: wanted this holiday season, you're gonna want this book. It 457 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: is a tour through the human body, starting with A 458 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: through Z, and it tells you all the different things 459 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: that could go wrong with your body. And a little 460 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: unknown fact about this book is that there are multiple 461 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 1: members of my family in this book, including my handsome husband, 462 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: my dad, my aunt, and my sister in law. So 463 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: check it out. You can go to thedoormotor dot com 464 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: slash book and find where you can get this great book. So, 465 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: speaking of learning, So you're working here at this really 466 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: boring job and then you decide that, I, how did 467 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 1: you come up with the decision that you were going 468 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: to start this huge nonprofit organization? Like what gave you 469 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: the idea to start that? 470 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 2: So I just was coming across a lot of people. 471 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 2: It didn't matter if I was going you probably experienced it. 472 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 2: You go to the bactor's office, you go anywhere, and 473 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 2: as soon as they asked me what I do, they 474 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 2: start talking to me forever. They're just so fascinated by 475 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 2: what I do. And then I was coming across a 476 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 2: lot of college students, in high school students and even 477 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 2: career changers who wanted to get into the field, but 478 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 2: they didn't have no mentorship, they didn't know where to start. 479 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,239 Speaker 2: So I had this crazy idea where I didn't know 480 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 2: nothing about starting a nonprofit. It was in twenty ten, 481 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 2: so I was in my thirties, like early thirties, and 482 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 2: I wanted to help people. And it didn't start off 483 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 2: right away as a nonprofit. I know, I had to 484 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,719 Speaker 2: come up with a name, and I just came up 485 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 2: with a name like Okay, there are no women owned, 486 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 2: especially black owned organizations to help people in forensics. And 487 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 2: I asked some of my friends who were forensic scientists 488 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 2: working in the laboratory from each unit to help. I 489 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 2: had friend and firearms and a friend in sorology in chemistry, 490 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 2: and I just asked, you want to help. So I 491 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 2: started doing classes at the rec center around my way 492 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 2: and at this other STEM center, and I just started 493 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 2: doing workshops. I was doing networking events and I was 494 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 2: doing this before it was only Facebook. Instagram didn't exist. 495 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 2: I don't think Twitter existed, so how I was getting 496 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 2: a word out? I was just posting stuff on Facebook. 497 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 2: I had started a blog and I remember I remember 498 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 2: interviewing you for my blog. It was the Women in 499 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 2: Forensics blog that was afterwards, but it was it was 500 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 2: just solely driven by my passion of wanting to help people. 501 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 2: That's it. I wanted to do something. I saw there 502 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 2: was a need and I just was like, Okay, this 503 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 2: is what I'm gonna do. I'm ana startup organization and 504 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 2: I'm gonna call it this and it just went from there. 505 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: It's so awesome. Like I I'm thinking, like we kind 506 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: of go way back. I met you before I even 507 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: had my little kids, and I remember I have this 508 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: good story of you asked me to do some event. 509 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: I think it was I don't even know what the 510 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: neighborhood was. Do you know where I'm talking about? 511 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 2: Yeah? Uk, And did the our murder Mystery event, Murder 512 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 2: of a Prime Queen. It was in Germantown. 513 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, So that was that was cool. And 514 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: I had just had when you asked me to do it, 515 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: I just had Lilian. She was less than one month old, 516 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: and I said, I don't know, like I can't. I'm 517 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: breastfeeding this kid. I don't even know how to pump yet, like, 518 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: and you just were so cool, like just bring your 519 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: kid with you. And I felt like I was like, 520 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: that's this is what's great about the women thing because 521 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: it's like you get Yeah, you got that right. So 522 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: I went there to that event with my mom. My 523 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: mom came with me, and I had her dealing with 524 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: Lilian when she was a month old while I was 525 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: doing my thing. Yep, and I have this picture of 526 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: Lilian in the stroller one month old, like all slouched 527 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: over in front of my autopsy tools. 528 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 2: Yeah I remember. Actually you did two events. Okay, that 529 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 2: was the first event that was the Philadelphia Science Festival 530 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 2: event we did a murder mystery. Oh yeah yeah, and 531 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 2: then you came to my other event. But yeah, you 532 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 2: were always cool. I mean I met you when you 533 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 2: was our heart autopsy. You're black. Yeah, well, last said 534 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 2: this is so dope, like I want to know more. 535 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really cool. And then I got to meet 536 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: a lot of your friends too that that also do 537 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: really cool jobs doing the DNA and everything like that, 538 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: and it's like this full circle of everything coming together. 539 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: It's just really cool. 540 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 541 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: I also have a picture with you from like one 542 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: of the moodor events. Was that the was the prom 543 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: queen one there or no, there was another one there events? 544 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 2: So we used to always see each other there every year. Yeah, 545 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 2: a motor event and wait, I forgot you did no, 546 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 2: you did three events because you came to one of 547 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 2: my beyond crom Seas and autopsies at a restaurant. Oh yeah, 548 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 2: Green Soul Yeah so. 549 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah that the one on Broad Street there. 550 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that was that was a cool night. 551 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 552 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: I love what you're doing because it's it's really it's 553 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: just so cool to introduce kids and you have you 554 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: set me a couple of years ago this this T 555 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: shirt that said Junior Forensic Scientists or Forensic Scientist in Training. 556 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, Junior Forensics Squad. I think was a junior forensic. 557 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: Yeah it was. Well, my kid wore it every day 558 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: and all the kids at school were like, where'd you 559 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: get that? It's so cool? But she finally grew out 560 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: of it. I still saved it aside because I'm like 561 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: the aams like coolnather shirt. 562 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 563 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: So you're still doing that too, like making shirts and 564 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: stuff for for well. I saw the Barbie theme one 565 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: you have, which is amazing. 566 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a street Forensics dot com when it's on 567 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 2: Street Forensics dot Com. So I do all sigance shirts 568 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 2: and stickers and and hoodies. Yeah, so that's that's one 569 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 2: of my my babies too, is Street Forensics dot Com 570 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 2: to do stuff when they're Yeah. 571 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: That's so cool. So I know that there's I've been 572 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: hearing a lot of high school kids say that they 573 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: offer forensics classes now in high school sometimes do you 574 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: have any involvement with those sort of things? 575 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 2: So I do. I do brain cloths for silly forensics 576 00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 2: to schools. I do contract with certain schools. I still 577 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 2: come out to schools and do career days. I also 578 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 2: still run my own club fully forensics program. I was 579 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 2: doing it at the MEG in Mount Erie. My last 580 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 2: class was in December. So although I'm not working in 581 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 2: the laboratory no more, it's still I'm still connected to 582 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 2: wanting to help youth, to mentor them and give them 583 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 2: guidance to get in a field if that's what they 584 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 2: want to do, to get exposed to it. 585 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: I love that do you ever have. I mean, because 586 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: now you've been doing it so long, do you have 587 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: people come up to you that say, hey, you helped me, 588 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: and now I've went through school and graduated, I'm doing 589 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:38,320 Speaker 1: this career. 590 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I'm like wow, Like, yeah, I have 591 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 2: people that come up to me who are adults that 592 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 2: were in my class and they were little kids, or 593 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 2: they either graduated and are working in a field, or 594 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 2: they decided it wasn't for them and they changed major. 595 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 2: But I have parents get in touch with me, students 596 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 2: still dm me, and yeah, it's it's uh, it's like 597 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 2: what I really like to do. I enjoy doing it. 598 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: It's cool too, because I know, since we're in a 599 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: similar field where you kind of go to work in 600 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: a lab all day and nobody ever says thank you, 601 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 1: and you can't really tell that you're making. 602 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 2: A difference exactly. 603 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, you say, if you're sitting 604 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: there just analyzing drugs all day, you you know that 605 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: you're making a difference. But really it's just different when 606 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: you're when you're hearing it from actual people, you know. 607 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's more of fulfilling. You feel appreciate it. Like 608 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 2: you said, I didn't find my feel to be too 609 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 2: welcoming like STEM being a scientist. It's it's still I 610 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 2: would it's a lot of women, but it's still male 611 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 2: dominated when it comes to people who are in like 612 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 2: the leadership positions exactly. Yeah, so that's one of the 613 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 2: reasons why I les that's fir. Yeah. 614 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: I was wondering that too, because when I feel like 615 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: when I started, it's it went from being a more 616 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: male dominated feel in pathology and then at some point 617 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: it was like every single person that was in the 618 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: program was a woman. Yeah, for training, which was really 619 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: interesting seeing here. 620 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, saying I experienced the saying it's just that we 621 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 2: need to see more women directors and lab managers. Especially 622 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 2: when you're working with the police. It's it's just so 623 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 2: much testastone and you see women around. But again, you 624 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 2: know what it is when you're working in these certain environments. 625 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: So yeah, and the lab is always I always have 626 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: this theory on the lab too, is that when you're 627 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 1: at the hospital and you're a nurse or something, or 628 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: you're even when you're a police, you have interactions with 629 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: other people. When you work in the lab, you only 630 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: have interactions with your coworkers, and sometimes it could get 631 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: nasty because it's you Like I feel like if you 632 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: work on the floor, the nurse could be like, oh 633 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: my god, that patience sucks or whatever, you know. But 634 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: but for us in the lab, it's just like, no, 635 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: by coworker sucks. Like they're the only ones that are 636 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: getting on my nerves right now, right, Yeah. 637 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 2: You're very isolated from everybody because again you're only seeing 638 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 2: your coworkers every day. Now. When I transferred over to 639 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 2: Quality Assurance, I was working even more with the police 640 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 2: and the command of officers, and it was a totally 641 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 2: different experience. 642 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I feel like that would be That's how 643 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: it was like in the lab. We might have the 644 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: occasional person come and drop off a specimen, but that 645 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: was it. Sometimes if we got to leave for lunch, 646 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 1: like that would be like other human interactions. 647 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we would have you know, of course, 648 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,359 Speaker 2: we would come across lawyers and paralegals that would come 649 00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 2: into the laboratory and they wanted to review a case 650 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 2: before the before the trial or whatever. So yeah, but 651 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,800 Speaker 2: we were mostly just cooped up in the edmin area 652 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 2: and our cubicle. You just see the same people every day. 653 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:16,879 Speaker 1: It gives me bad flashbacks. 654 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. That's why I have no desire. 655 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: To go back to Yeah. I feel that way too. 656 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: I'm good going once in a while and like I 657 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: don't need that as a full time job anymore. 658 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 2: No thanks in here. I'm good. I did, I did 659 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 2: enough time, you know, and now I'm doing things that 660 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 2: are more you know, make me happy. 661 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,280 Speaker 1: So it's funny how we're referring to our old careers 662 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: as prison time, like I. 663 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,319 Speaker 2: Did my I mean that's how you feel like as 664 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 2: you get older, you just change, you change, or you 665 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 2: know you have. When I started, I didn't have a daughter, 666 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 2: you know. I and especially when you start a family, 667 00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 2: you want to spend more time with your family than 668 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 2: you spend at the job. 669 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: So I know that your women in Forensics program is 670 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: based out of Philly, but is that something Are you 671 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: able to help youth like all over the country, not 672 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,240 Speaker 1: just specifically in Philadelphia. Do you do like online programs 673 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:14,760 Speaker 1: or anything? 674 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 2: Yeah? I do, I especially daring COVID. That's when my 675 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 2: virtual stuff started with me doing club Fully, I did 676 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 2: a club Phully Forensics virtual program and I had a 677 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 2: student helped me. She was so helpful with that, and 678 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 2: she talked to classes and after that I realized, you know, 679 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,359 Speaker 2: I want to do virtual stuff more. So that's why 680 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 2: my membership that I have it's all virtual, so that 681 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 2: way I can reach people from all over the country, 682 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 2: from all over the world, which I do have a 683 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 2: global following. 684 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: So oh that's cool. 685 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like meeting people from all over It was 686 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 2: it was just me getting used to the time zones, 687 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,720 Speaker 2: you know, being able to accommodate people from different time zones. 688 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 2: And yeah, that's the goal for me really, one of 689 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 2: them is to do more things that are digital. 690 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: It's cool too because you can learn, i know, in 691 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 1: my specific pathology, just learning what other countries do. They 692 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,280 Speaker 1: don't have the same exact process as us when handling 693 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: natural deaths or any kind of deaths or anything. So 694 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: it's really interesting to learn what they do in other countries. 695 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: Are you finding that too that yeah, yeah, their whole 696 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: other systems are just different. 697 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I am finding out finding that out, like I have. 698 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:36,919 Speaker 2: Like doctor, her name is Doc Gobins. I hear she's 699 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,479 Speaker 2: from Morocco and she's the way they're training medical legal 700 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 2: death investigation and what they're able to do is different 701 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,719 Speaker 2: than the US. And that's why I tell a lot 702 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 2: of people, like, you don't have to stay confined to 703 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 2: the United States. You could think about going outside of 704 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 2: the country to get a job. And I think that's 705 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 2: what a lot of people don't think about when they 706 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 2: want to go into forensics. If they can't find a 707 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 2: job here, they don't think about relocating to a different 708 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 2: country or or a different continent. A continent you know, 709 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 2: you don't have to stay here, you can go somewhere. 710 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's it is cool because you have to 711 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: Like I understand that people Americans don't think that way, 712 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: but you're like, guess what, There's drugs in other countries 713 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,839 Speaker 1: and people murder people in other countries. 714 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 2: Me and you know, what we do is global, so 715 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 2: you meet different people and your system is different, and 716 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 2: it's so interesting to get out there and meet people 717 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 2: who are who speak different languages and who don't practice 718 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 2: things the same way you do. So I just think 719 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 2: that's part of us being American, Like we. 720 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,319 Speaker 1: You need to go visit your friend in Morocco's that's 721 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:45,240 Speaker 1: like on my list. 722 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:50,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, she she I think she's in Casablanca, so cool. Yeah, 723 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 2: and she's she's done a beyond crime seas or autopsies 724 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 2: for me like three times. And she's so nice and 725 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 2: and I and I meet so many people who want 726 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 2: to help. I've met more people outside of the country 727 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 2: who wants to support and do things with women in 728 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:11,280 Speaker 2: forensics than people in the United States, like a worldwide 729 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,960 Speaker 2: association of Women Forensic Experts, Like she's in Italy and 730 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that's a best coordinator with her, Anna Barbaro, 731 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,839 Speaker 2: and she's real helpful. So it's yeah, it's like you, 732 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,760 Speaker 2: I've kind of been able to see the world without 733 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 2: me physically being there, just by me meeting these people, 734 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 2: and that's been kind of also one of my interests 735 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 2: is to get out and travel and meet other people 736 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 2: outside in forensics and see what's what's different about what 737 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:44,719 Speaker 2: they do. I love that. 738 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. 739 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:45,440 Speaker 2: Thanks. 740 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: So, so now that you're you're retired from the from 741 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 1: the police department, what what's next for you? I know 742 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 1: that you're just going to continue to do this, which 743 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 1: is awesome. Do you have any other any other interest 744 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:00,799 Speaker 1: in doing anything else? 745 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 2: Yeah? So I do like out of school time working 746 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,320 Speaker 2: with after school program so I do that as well, 747 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,759 Speaker 2: And I just want to continue to run my club 748 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 2: fully forensics program and grow Street Forensics and also create 749 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 2: like educational resources for youth who are interested in forensics 750 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 2: because I love art, so I like creating stuff that 751 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,359 Speaker 2: they could use to be able to learn more about 752 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 2: the field. Yeah. 753 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: But you know it's interesting too with all these interviews, 754 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: I noticed that a lot of scientists that are in 755 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,360 Speaker 1: this field are are artists as well, Like I consider 756 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,320 Speaker 1: myself to be an artist. Yeah, and we just interviewed 757 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: someone last week who's a forensic artist. She does the 758 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: composite sketches and also the clay bone sculpture. And it's 759 00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,920 Speaker 1: just cool because sometimes when you have one of these 760 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,839 Speaker 1: jobs at Super Science Base, you need this like other 761 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:04,879 Speaker 1: outlet to get your art stuff out. 762 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:05,359 Speaker 2: Yeah. 763 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:10,160 Speaker 1: So all right, so let's tell everybody where they can 764 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: find it, because you have a lot of different things 765 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 1: going on. But let's start off with the clothes. That 766 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: was the Street Forensics, right, Yes, those shirts are really cute. 767 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: What's the that website? 768 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,480 Speaker 2: So that's street forensics dot com. So that's Street s 769 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,719 Speaker 2: t R e e T Forensics dot com. And then 770 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 2: I had a withst dot org a w ifs and 771 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,279 Speaker 2: frank As is a Sambaut org. And I also have 772 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,960 Speaker 2: a membership which is my Patreon forward slash Women a 773 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,719 Speaker 2: Forensics where people can join and be able to meet 774 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 2: with me twice a month, and I have guest speakers 775 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 2: to talk about how they can start a career in 776 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,759 Speaker 2: forensics and that's awesome. And my handles women in Forensics 777 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 2: on Instagram and Street Forensics Instagram. 778 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 1: Thank you, Yeah, I think you're I think your Patreon 779 00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,400 Speaker 1: page is really good because it's it's almost like having 780 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:03,399 Speaker 1: a like a guidance counselor specific to what you want 781 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,880 Speaker 1: to do that actually knows the right advice each of you. 782 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 2: Yes, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that, being as though 783 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,920 Speaker 2: you've had a membership for so many years. I mean, 784 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,360 Speaker 2: you the pioneer and all of it. No one was 785 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,360 Speaker 2: doing what you were doing when you started, Like, oh, 786 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,120 Speaker 2: thank you, I'm proud of what you're doing. 787 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 1: I'm so proud of what you're doing too. It's awesome. 788 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being here today. 789 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,960 Speaker 2: Of course, you're welcome. Thanks for having me. I really 790 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,360 Speaker 2: appreciate you having me on your platform, and you've always 791 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,560 Speaker 2: been supportos for years, so. 792 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 1: Of course anything for you. You're awesome. 793 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 2: Oh are you too? Thanks Nicole, appreciate you. 794 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Mother Knows Death. As a reminder, 795 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,719 Speaker 1: my training is as a pathologist assistant. I have a 796 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 1: master's level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education. 797 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,400 Speaker 1: I am not a doctor and I have not diagnosed 798 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: or treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of 799 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website, and social 800 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,920 Speaker 1: media accounts are designed to educate and inform people based 801 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,879 Speaker 1: on my experience working in pathology, so they can make 802 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:19,760 Speaker 1: healthier decisions regarding their life and well being. Always remember 803 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,920 Speaker 1: that science is changing every day and the opinions expressed 804 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,560 Speaker 1: in this episode are based on my knowledge of those 805 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,359 Speaker 1: subjects at the time of publication. If you are having 806 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,400 Speaker 1: a medical problem, have a medical question, or having a 807 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,800 Speaker 1: medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit an urgent 808 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,560 Speaker 1: care center, emergency room or hospital. Please rate, review, and 809 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:47,200 Speaker 1: subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or 810 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:59,279 Speaker 1: anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks