WEBVTT - Loneliness & Connection (with Surgeon General Vivek Murthy & John Leguizamo) 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:04.600 I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is you and me both. 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:09.520 A few months ago, I published a piece in the 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:14.280 Atlantic magazine on what I called the weaponization of loneliness. 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:19.000 The piece was inspired by some really important and alarming 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:23.080 studies put out by the United States Surgeon General, doctor 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:24.840 Vivek Murphy. 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:26.080 He writes about. 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:30.560 How loneliness and social isolation are having a profoundly negative 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:34.320 effect not only on our mental health, but also on 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:39.640 our physical health. In fact, he says those negative impacts 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:44.839 have reached epidemic proportions. So I argue in my article 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:51.599 that this crisis of loneliness also has political consequences. We 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:57.680 know that social isolation makes people, and especially disaffected young men, 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.120 easy targets for those who want to sew division within 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:08.560 our society using conspiracy theories and hateful rhetoric. As I 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:13.679 see it, loneliness is actually helping to erode our democracy. 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:18.440 I've been so impressed and appreciative of the work doctor 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:22.360 Murphy is doing to tackle the loneliness epidemic head on 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:25.880 that I wanted to talk with him and hear what 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.760 he's doing and what each of us can do. But 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.560 you know, there are lots of ways we can overcome 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:36.040 our isolation. One of my favorite ways is by going 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:39.080 to the theater or to the movies, you know, going 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:43.759 places where we can laugh or cry or be moved 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:48.800 to think about things in new ways together. That's why 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:53.320 I also invited John Leguizamo to be on my show today. 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:58.400 John is an amazing actor, writer, producer, and comedian. But 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:02.840 he's also doing great work to strengthen our democracy by 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:07.120 making sure our vision of America is an inclusive one. 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:11.360 Everybody has a seat at the table, and he acknowledges 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:16.040 and wants us to join him in recognizing the incredible 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:21.000 contributions that Latinos have made to our country, literally from 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:21.959 the very beginning. 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:23.400 So stick around. 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.280 I don't think you want to miss either of these conversations. 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:33.880 First up, Doctor Vivek Murphy. Doctor Murphy has actually served 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:37.959 as Surgeon General two times. He was first appointed by 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:42.519 President Obama in twenty fourteen and then by President Biden 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:46.440 in twenty twenty one. He's currently in the middle of 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:49.480 what the Office of the Surgeon General is calling that 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:54.440 we are Made to Connect tour. He's visiting college campuses 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.320 all over the country to talk with young people about 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:02.000 how to recognize and address the harmful effects of loneliness. 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.640 I am so grateful he was able to make time 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:09.000 for us in the middle of his important tour. 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:11.560 Hello, how are. 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.840 You hi, I Secretary Clinton. I'm doing well. How are you? 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.760 I'm great and I'm so looking forward to talking with you. 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:22.919 So let's dive right in. Let's start with something that 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.919 you have helped to highlight, and that is the issue 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:32.080 of loneliness. When did you first consider the possibility that 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.360 we were facing a loneliness epidemic. 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.160 The truth is I saw loneliness a lot earlier in 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:41.760 my own life, and but it took me many years 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.520 to actually realize it was a broader public health issue. 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:47.760 As a kid, I struggled a lot with a feeling 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:51.280 of being lonely. I was a very shy, introverted kid 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:53.600 growing up. I mean, my family had just moved to 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:55.720 this country. I know, you know a lot of folks 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:59.160 in my school who had a similar background or who 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.360 was familiar with our traditions or anything. I felt so 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.000 I felt very different. You put all that together, and 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.560 it was just it was tough to sort of break 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.440 in and to make friends. And so many times growing up, 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.440 I actually in elementary school faked having a stomachache so 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.400 that my mom would let me stay home because I 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:17.320 wasn't scared about test her teachers. I just didn't want 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:19.440 to walk into cafeteria one more time and not have 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.120 someone to sit next to, or be on the playground 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:25.280 and not have someone to play with two dings. I 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:27.159 still have not told my mom to this day that 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:30.440 I was faking those stomachaches. So but if she listens 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.839 to this podcast, she will find out. But you know, 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.200 I'll tell you. In later years, though, I came to 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:38.240 see that many of the patients I was caring for 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.280 in the hospital were struggling with loneliness. They wouldn't come 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:43.440 in for that. They would come in for a blood 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.320 clot or pneumonia or heart attack, But when I would 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:48.960 sit down and talk to them, these stories about being 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:52.640 alone would come up, like most poignantly and heartbreakingly. It 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:55.320 would be often when we needed to sit down and 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:57.360 have a really tough conversation with them about a new 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:01.400 diagnosis or about having to change treatment strategies because our 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.320 treatment wasn't working. I would often say, is there somebody 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:06.040 that you want me to call to be here with 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.920 you during this tough conversation, and so many of them 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:10.919 would say, you know, I wish there was, but there's 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.440 no one. I'll just do it alone. And that was 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.200 always heartbreaking to hear. But even despite all of that, 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.400 it really took my experience in twenty fifteen, when I 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:22.800 began my first into search in general, traveling around the 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:26.120 country on a listening tour and hearing about what was 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:28.719 going on in people's lives for me to realize that, wow, 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.000 there is actually a much deeper challenge of loneliness that 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.120 I hadn't appreciated. And people didn't come up to me 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:37.840 saying I'm lonely. They didn't say that, but they would 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:39.760 be a college student who would say to me, you know, 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.880 I'm surrounded by all these students on campus, but I 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.480 don't really feel like anybody knows me. It was parents 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:47.160 who would say, you know, I'm at work all days 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.840 surrounded by people. Then I'm in my neighborhood surrounded by people, 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:51.800 and I go to kids' birthday parties and I'm surrounded 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.520 by people, but I don't know. I just feel like 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.080 I'm having to carry all these burdens in my life 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:00.920 by myself. So in their own way, people were telling 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:04.080 me that they felt invisible, that they feel like if 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.800 they disappeared, people wouldn't notice. And it was when I 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.400 dug into it that I realized two critical things. One is, 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.120 loneliness is extraordinarily common, with one and two people adults 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:17.279 struggling with loneliness, and even much higher numbers among kids. 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.240 But the second thing, I realized just how consequential it 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:22.800 was for our health, that loneliness is so much more 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.760 than a bad feeling, but it raises their risk. You know, 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:30.160 together with isolation of us being more risk for depression, anxiety, 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:32.919 and suicide, it increases our risk for physical illness like 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.480 heart disease, premature death, dementia, and the list goes on. 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.960 Well, I think that's such an important connection that you 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:44.800 have made. And you know, it's these physical effects that 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:46.640 really caught your attention, didn't they. 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:50.600 That's right, and that's what made me realize that these 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:54.960 are actually incredibly important public health issues. You know, I 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.200 think so much about the history of our office, Secretary Clinton, 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:02.520 and how we have spent time and effort and energy 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:05.760 focused on tobacco. We've spent a lot of time talking 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:09.320 and thinking about obesity as a public health challenge, But 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.880 what's interesting is when you look at the data on loneliness, 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.920 what you find is it being socially disconnected is associated 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:20.160 with a mortality effect, and that mortality effect is on 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.760 par with smoking daily. It's even greater than the mortality 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.760 impact we see associated with obesity. And so to me, 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.360 that's why loneliness and isolation are public health issues that 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:34.280 should be on par with how we think about tobacco 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:35.840 and obesity as concerns. 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:39.160 As you know, our lifespan is going down in the 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:43.640 United States, and there are some who have described the 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:51.120 increase in fatality therefore lowering of our life expectancy as 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:57.480 deaths of despair overdoses, gun violence, suicide. Is that how 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:58.920 you also think about it? 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.840 Doctor, You know, I. 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:05.520 Do think that there's a deeper despair that's driving a 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.000 lot of these negative health outcomes, mental and physical that 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.240 we're worried about. You know, what's striking to me is 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:17.360 that when people feel hopeful about the future, it turns 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.000 out there's actually a fair amount of adversity that they're 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:23.520 able to contend with and to overcome. But when we 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.360 lose that hope, and very importantly, when we feel like 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.680 we're up against all of these obstacles by ourselves. Then 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:35.160 even what seemed like normal everyday adversity can be absolutely overwhelming, 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:38.520 and I worry in particular that that's what so many 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:41.280 people in our country are experiencing right now. One of 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:43.880 the things that I've talked about in the past is 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.600 that how emotional pain and physical pain actually feel and 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.760 are interpreted very similarly in our brain. And if you 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.120 think about loneliness as a deep source of emotional pain, 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:58.560 it is not surprising that so many people may look 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.560 for things to help really that pain. And it's why 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.120 I think that we actually have to see loneliness is 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.240 so much more than a health issue, but as a 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:12.240 broader societal issue, because when we struggle with loneliness and communities, 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.280 we know it impacts us well beyond health. The connected 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:19.080 communities actually have lower rates of violence, They tend to 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.839 have higher rates of economic prosperity, They tend to be 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.920 more resilient in the face of adverse events like a 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.800 hurricane or a tornado. But they also tend to be 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:32.679 more insulated against polarization. It is so much easier to 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:35.240 come in and to divide people and turn them against 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.120 each other when they don't have connections with one another 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.000 when they're feeling lonely and isolated. 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.440 Well, inspired by your work, I wrote an article in 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:49.119 The Atlantic magazine talking just about that the weaponization of loneliness, 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:53.360 because it's not only how people themselves feel, but how 0:09:53.440 --> 0:10:00.520 those feelings can be manipulated and exacerbated by hateful rhetoric, 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:05.520 by finger pointing and scapegoating. And it does seem as 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:11.320 though the pandemic, with the amount of isolation that people lived, 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:15.000 with their children out of school, with people working from home, 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:20.040 with every kind of civic and social activity being canceled 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.360 or maybe moved online but not having the same in 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:28.920 person impact, that this problem became even more acute. 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:32.880 Yeah, that's a student observation. And by the way, I 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.960 so appreciated you writing about loneliness in your Atlantic piece. 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.240 I heard so much feedback from people who read that 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.160 article and who had not previously realized just how big 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.960 a challenge loneliness was. But I think you're exactly right 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:47.120 about COVID. It poured fuel on a fire that was 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:51.800 burning long before, of a fire of loneliness and isolation 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.400 and despair. But I'll tell you I spend a lot 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:56.720 of time with young people when I travel around the country, 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.320 and I remember being in a school in Chicago and 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:02.560 a young man in high school telling me, he said, 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.200 you know, I know, it's been a while since, you know, 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.440 we were all staying at home and not in school. 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:09.319 He's like, but I feel like I'm still learning how 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.640 to socializing it. A young woman in his class actually 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:14.880 raised her hand and she said, yeah, I see that 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:17.160 all around me. She's like, it's like we all forgot 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:21.360 how to be with each other. And their feedback, it 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:25.120 turns out, is actually very common. University chaplains who I've 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:27.720 been speaking with also, who have been charged with looking 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.600 out for the health and well being of students, they 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.560 too say that they feel has become much much harder 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:35.680 in the last few years for young people to actually 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:39.320 have conversations with one another, especially if they're worried that 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:42.600 they may disagree with someone or have a differensive opinion. 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.880 And so I do think the pandemic made things worse, 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.440 and we're still recovering from that. And I think Felmin 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.000 is for older people who look at that, they're like, 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:52.640 you know, I went through the pandemic. It was rough, 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:54.120 but now I'm fine. Now like, why are these young 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:56.360 people having such a hard time? And I think one 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:58.920 thing that's really important for folks out there to understand 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.480 is that young people are not just younger older people, 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.840 and they're fundamentally at a different phase of development of 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:09.520 brain development, of social development. Like you miss a year 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.920 in middle school, that's a year of critical social development. 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:15.520 You're building skills, you're learning how to deal with conflict, 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.760 you're learning how to start a conversation, how to negotiate 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:20.120 differences of opinion. 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.040 Well, it's also a bigger percentage of their life than 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.680 it was for somebody like me. I mean a year, 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:28.720 a year and a half, two years out of a 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:34.360 fourteen year old's life is enormous. I know that you're 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:38.080 currently on a tour of college campuses to talk to 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.560 young people about connecting with each other. 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:43.560 How did you make that decision? 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:45.719 Because I can imagine with the many things that the 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.679 Surgeon General has to worry about, going on a college 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:52.520 campus tour to talk about loneliness mental health may have 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:55.480 struck some people as well. It's a nice thing to do, 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.880 but is it really important? Whereas I think what you're 0:12:58.920 --> 0:12:59.920 doing is critical. 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.520 Well, thank you for that and here's why we decided 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:07.199 to do it. For me, the issue of youth mental 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:10.840 health rose to the top because I think of our 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.240 mental health as a fuel that allows us to do 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.160 everything else we do in our life, to show up 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:18.280 for our families in school, at work, and for our communities. 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.200 And what that fuel tank is running low, as it 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.800 is for so many people, especially young people in our country, 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.240 everything else becomes harder, and then we start to ask, well, 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:28.800 how come young people aren't doing more of this and 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.199 more of that. Well, it turns out that there is actually, 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.040 I think, a common root cause here, and so that's 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.480 why I wanted to focus on the issue and the tour. 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.080 Our college tour is a way of actually going directly 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.840 to young people and not just talking to them about 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:46.000 this issue why it's important, but really harnessing their ideas, 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.720 motivating them to help build the broader movement I think 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.400 we need in our country to address this deeper youth 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.520 mental health crisis, because to do it right, we've got 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:57.440 to work on multiple fronts. Yes, we have to expand 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.440 access to treatment, but we've also got to rest the 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.480 deeper root causes of what's driving this crisis, whether it's 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.600 how we're using social media and how it's designed, whether 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.559 it's issues related to trauma and violence, with gun violence 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.760 now becoming the number one cause of death among children, 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.760 which is appalling. But these deeper root causes have to 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.520 be addressed. And there's a cultural piece here too that 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.040 we've got to address, which is where young people come in, 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.520 which is we have to fundamentally change not only how 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.120 we think about mental health and well being and our 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.840 willingness to talk about it, but we also have to 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.000 ask ourselves, I think a much more fundamental question as 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.720 young people and as parents, which is, are we asking 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:38.400 our kids to chase the right things in life? The 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.960 achievement culture that we have right now, I worry has 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:46.640 tilted in a direction that has actually become counterproductive and harmful. 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:48.880 And I hear this directly from young people who call 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.560 it hustle culture. They say, we're being asked to chase, chase, 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:55.640 chase all of these things, fancy jobs, fancy internships, like 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.960 the top gp of getting into fancy schools. Is this 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.960 really going to lead us to happiness, to fulfillment? So 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.840 changing all of this requires a shift in consciousness, a 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.360 broader movement that we build a call for a different 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.840 way of life, and that's something that I think young 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.440 people are uniquely poised to do. The greatest movements in 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:17.520 history have been led and built by young people. And 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.640 that's one of the reasons I'm going to college campus 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.680 is it's to talk to them directly about these issues 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.760 and to help them understand that to do any of 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:29.040 this world requires us to build community and connection to 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.320 sustain and support us through the challenges ahead. 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:34.400 Well, that's exactly right. You know. 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:38.160 I talked with a group of young women, fifteen sixteen 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.680 year old girls in high school about the article I 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.000 wrote about the study that you had done, and you've 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:46.880 done several you know, you've talked about the impact of 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.560 screen life on kids, and it was so fascinating for 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.480 me to hear what they had to say. You know, 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.520 they said, look, that is our community. We're on our 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.240 phones because that's where our community is. I said, yeah, 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.880 but it's like not the real life community. And they 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.400 looked at me like, well, yeah, it is our real life. 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.920 And I found it fascinating to try to talk about 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:13.120 how all the research shows that, you know, too much 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:17.280 screen time can lead to bad feelings about yourself, It 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.680 can lead to greater anxiety and depression. It can lead 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:24.000 to young people being you know, more and more alienated. 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.560 And their pushback was, yeah, but there are no places 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.120 for us to go. As teenagers, they lived in a 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:34.920 place where there were no safe opportunities for them to 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.080 gather at night, to have fun and just be themselves. 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.440 They said they found it very difficult to talk to 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.480 their teachers and their counselors because they just didn't seem 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:49.240 to understand even their parents. So the sense of both 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:53.880 isolation from the larger world and the creation of what 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.520 I consider to be a kind of, you know, faux 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:02.200 community online is something that they they are not unconscious about. 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.679 They understand there's a trade off. They just don't know 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.520 how to do the other and they don't feel like 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:12.080 the adults in their lives are able to connect with 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.199 them either. Does this sound familiar to you. 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:18.280 It sounds really familiar. Yeah, And that's really powerful feedback 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:23.160 because I think what those young kids were teaching you 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.440 and teaching me and teaching all of us is that 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:27.520 these two things. I think one is that young people 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.080 do have a remarkable amount of insight into what they're experiencing. 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:34.040 But it's also the complexity of solving that. I think 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.360 that one of the things you're absolutely right that we've 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.080 lost are these third spaces, these places for people to 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.959 actually encounter each other and gather. And one of the 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:47.119 things I think that happens the more you lose opportunities 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.360 for in person interactions is that the skills and comfort 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:53.240 that you have interacting with people also starts to deteriorate. 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:57.440 I'll tell you interestingly interesting happened to me during the pandemic. 0:17:57.600 --> 0:17:59.479 You know, in the first year of the pandemic, I 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:01.280 was a private say, and I was out there like 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.320 everyone else, just largely trying to protect my family, you know, 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.000 my own health, et cetera. But I had much less 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:10.600 social interaction. And even for me, it took me a 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:12.800 while to actually come back and to get comfortable with it. 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.119 I remember the first time we had parents over from 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:18.800 our kids' school to our house, and it was as 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:20.320 I was like, wow, this is like taking a lot 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.359 of energy to like interact with everybody, you know, like 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:24.040 it was like a muscle that I had to build 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:27.680 back up again. But if you're really young and you're 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:29.920 living in an environment where you've actually never been able 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:33.200 to truly build that muscle. Because you're in an environment 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.560 that's been primarily online, then you run into a real 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.399 challenge in terms of comfort and the skill set itself. 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:41.880 And I only say this because I think we both 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:45.040 have to create those spaces in our communities and our schools, 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:48.359 but we also have to help people develop the comfort 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:50.800 and skills. And so I think if we just throw 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:52.800 a bunch of people in a room together and say, 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.399 get to know each other, interact, you know, it may 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:57.800 or may not happen. But if we create opportunities for 0:18:57.840 --> 0:18:59.240 them with a little bit of structur and a little 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.840 bit of time to actually get to know one another, 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.520 to learn about each other, and then we give them 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.320 more time to interact, that can make a world of difference. 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:11.480 And that's what I see actually happening in various schools 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.040 across the country, where young people are starting to build 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.880 programs where they bring peers together to actually learn about 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:21.000 one another, to actually do activities together, sometimes their service 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.399 projects and engagements, and that kind of in person interaction 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.919 can actually help people to get more comfortable with in 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:28.760 person interaction. 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:44.200 We're taking a quick break. Stay with us. 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:47.200 On your tour, your college campus tour. You are putting 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:50.040 for something called the five for five Challenge. 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.240 What is that, doctor, Yes, So, one of the things 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.760 we want to do on the college campus Tour, which 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:57.600 we call our We Are Made to Connect Tour, is 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.760 we want to give young people to experience connection. Let's 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:02.359 just talk about it and given the experience of it. 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.360 So we designed something called our five for five Challenge 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:10.200 where we're asking people for five days to take five actions, 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.680 one action each day that will give them the experience 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:15.600 of connection. It could come on one of three forms. 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:19.280 You can either express gratitude to someone, you can extend 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.760 support to someone, or you can ask for help. We 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:25.600 do the first one actually with everyone like in the 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.159 auditorium or the sting that we're in, and what we 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:30.120 do is certainly very simple. We ask them to pull 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.520 out their phone and to compose an email or a 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:37.280 text to someone in their life who they're grateful for. 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.000 It could be for something very simple. Maybe it was 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:42.000 someone who a few years ago showed up for you 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:44.520 when you were having a really hard day. Maybe it's 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:47.119 somebody who knew that you got a big disappointment that 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:49.440 maybe you've got a bad grade on a test, or 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:51.080 you didn't get picked for the team that you tried 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.240 out for and they just showed up to listen to you. 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:56.280 Whatever it was like, what they made you grateful for them. 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:58.199 We asked people to reflect on that and then to 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:02.040 send them a short message. The whole thing takes about 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:05.200 ninety seconds, and at the end of that we ask 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.600 everyone who has sent a message of gratitude to turn 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.679 the flashlight on on their phone and to hold it 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:14.399 up and we dim the lights in the auditorium and 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.800 what you see is so beautiful. It's light after light 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:21.320 to sort of pop up and just fill the entire auditorium. 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:23.880 You look around you and you realize, wow, there are 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.520 all of these rays of hope that have just gone 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:28.920 out into the world. People are going to receive those 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:32.560 messages that people just sent, They're going to feel appreciated, 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:35.080 They're going to feel connected, and it's going to feel 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:37.359 good to know that you helped create that feeling. So 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:40.359 we ask people to do something like this, an active 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:43.240