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Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is you and me both.

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Speaker 1: A few months ago, I published a piece in the

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Speaker 1: Atlantic magazine on what I called the weaponization of loneliness.

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Speaker 1: The piece was inspired by some really important and alarming

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Speaker 1: studies put out by the United States Surgeon General, doctor

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Speaker 1: Vivek Murphy.

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Speaker 2: He writes about.

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Speaker 1: How loneliness and social isolation are having a profoundly negative

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Speaker 1: effect not only on our mental health, but also on

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Speaker 1: our physical health. In fact, he says those negative impacts

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Speaker 1: have reached epidemic proportions. So I argue in my article

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Speaker 1: that this crisis of loneliness also has political consequences. We

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Speaker 1: know that social isolation makes people, and especially disaffected young men,

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Speaker 1: easy targets for those who want to sew division within

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Speaker 1: our society using conspiracy theories and hateful rhetoric. As I

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Speaker 1: see it, loneliness is actually helping to erode our democracy.

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Speaker 1: I've been so impressed and appreciative of the work doctor

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Speaker 1: Murphy is doing to tackle the loneliness epidemic head on

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Speaker 1: that I wanted to talk with him and hear what

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Speaker 1: he's doing and what each of us can do. But

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Speaker 1: you know, there are lots of ways we can overcome

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Speaker 1: our isolation. One of my favorite ways is by going

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Speaker 1: to the theater or to the movies, you know, going

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Speaker 1: places where we can laugh or cry or be moved

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Speaker 1: to think about things in new ways together. That's why

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Speaker 1: I also invited John Leguizamo to be on my show today.

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Speaker 1: John is an amazing actor, writer, producer, and comedian. But

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Speaker 1: he's also doing great work to strengthen our democracy by

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Speaker 1: making sure our vision of America is an inclusive one.

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Speaker 1: Everybody has a seat at the table, and he acknowledges

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Speaker 1: and wants us to join him in recognizing the incredible

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Speaker 1: contributions that Latinos have made to our country, literally from

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Speaker 1: the very beginning.

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Speaker 2: So stick around.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you want to miss either of these conversations.

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Speaker 1: First up, Doctor Vivek Murphy. Doctor Murphy has actually served

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Speaker 1: as Surgeon General two times. He was first appointed by

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Speaker 1: President Obama in twenty fourteen and then by President Biden

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one. He's currently in the middle of

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Speaker 1: what the Office of the Surgeon General is calling that

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Speaker 1: we are Made to Connect tour. He's visiting college campuses

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Speaker 1: all over the country to talk with young people about

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Speaker 1: how to recognize and address the harmful effects of loneliness.

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Speaker 1: I am so grateful he was able to make time

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Speaker 1: for us in the middle of his important tour.

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Speaker 2: Hello, how are.

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Speaker 3: You hi, I Secretary Clinton. I'm doing well. How are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm great and I'm so looking forward to talking with you.

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Speaker 1: So let's dive right in. Let's start with something that

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Speaker 1: you have helped to highlight, and that is the issue

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Speaker 1: of loneliness. When did you first consider the possibility that

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Speaker 1: we were facing a loneliness epidemic.

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Speaker 3: The truth is I saw loneliness a lot earlier in

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Speaker 3: my own life, and but it took me many years

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Speaker 3: to actually realize it was a broader public health issue.

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Speaker 3: As a kid, I struggled a lot with a feeling

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Speaker 3: of being lonely. I was a very shy, introverted kid

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Speaker 3: growing up. I mean, my family had just moved to

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Speaker 3: this country. I know, you know a lot of folks

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Speaker 3: in my school who had a similar background or who

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Speaker 3: was familiar with our traditions or anything. I felt so

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Speaker 3: I felt very different. You put all that together, and

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Speaker 3: it was just it was tough to sort of break

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Speaker 3: in and to make friends. And so many times growing up,

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Speaker 3: I actually in elementary school faked having a stomachache so

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Speaker 3: that my mom would let me stay home because I

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Speaker 3: wasn't scared about test her teachers. I just didn't want

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Speaker 3: to walk into cafeteria one more time and not have

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Speaker 3: someone to sit next to, or be on the playground

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Speaker 3: and not have someone to play with two dings. I

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Speaker 3: still have not told my mom to this day that

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Speaker 3: I was faking those stomachaches. So but if she listens

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Speaker 3: to this podcast, she will find out. But you know,

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you. In later years, though, I came to

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Speaker 3: see that many of the patients I was caring for

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Speaker 3: in the hospital were struggling with loneliness. They wouldn't come

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Speaker 3: in for that. They would come in for a blood

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Speaker 3: clot or pneumonia or heart attack, But when I would

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Speaker 3: sit down and talk to them, these stories about being

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Speaker 3: alone would come up, like most poignantly and heartbreakingly. It

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Speaker 3: would be often when we needed to sit down and

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Speaker 3: have a really tough conversation with them about a new

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Speaker 3: diagnosis or about having to change treatment strategies because our

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Speaker 3: treatment wasn't working. I would often say, is there somebody

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Speaker 3: that you want me to call to be here with

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Speaker 3: you during this tough conversation, and so many of them

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Speaker 3: would say, you know, I wish there was, but there's

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Speaker 3: no one. I'll just do it alone. And that was

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Speaker 3: always heartbreaking to hear. But even despite all of that,

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Speaker 3: it really took my experience in twenty fifteen, when I

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Speaker 3: began my first into search in general, traveling around the

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Speaker 3: country on a listening tour and hearing about what was

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Speaker 3: going on in people's lives for me to realize that, wow,

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Speaker 3: there is actually a much deeper challenge of loneliness that

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Speaker 3: I hadn't appreciated. And people didn't come up to me

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Speaker 3: saying I'm lonely. They didn't say that, but they would

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Speaker 3: be a college student who would say to me, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm surrounded by all these students on campus, but I

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Speaker 3: don't really feel like anybody knows me. It was parents

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Speaker 3: who would say, you know, I'm at work all days

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Speaker 3: surrounded by people. Then I'm in my neighborhood surrounded by people,

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Speaker 3: and I go to kids' birthday parties and I'm surrounded

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Speaker 3: by people, but I don't know. I just feel like

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Speaker 3: I'm having to carry all these burdens in my life

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Speaker 3: by myself. So in their own way, people were telling

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Speaker 3: me that they felt invisible, that they feel like if

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Speaker 3: they disappeared, people wouldn't notice. And it was when I

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Speaker 3: dug into it that I realized two critical things. One is,

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Speaker 3: loneliness is extraordinarily common, with one and two people adults

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Speaker 3: struggling with loneliness, and even much higher numbers among kids.

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Speaker 3: But the second thing, I realized just how consequential it

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Speaker 3: was for our health, that loneliness is so much more

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Speaker 3: than a bad feeling, but it raises their risk. You know,

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Speaker 3: together with isolation of us being more risk for depression, anxiety,

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Speaker 3: and suicide, it increases our risk for physical illness like

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Speaker 3: heart disease, premature death, dementia, and the list goes on.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think that's such an important connection that you

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Speaker 1: have made. And you know, it's these physical effects that

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Speaker 1: really caught your attention, didn't they.

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Speaker 3: That's right, and that's what made me realize that these

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Speaker 3: are actually incredibly important public health issues. You know, I

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Speaker 3: think so much about the history of our office, Secretary Clinton,

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Speaker 3: and how we have spent time and effort and energy

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Speaker 3: focused on tobacco. We've spent a lot of time talking

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Speaker 3: and thinking about obesity as a public health challenge, But

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Speaker 3: what's interesting is when you look at the data on loneliness,

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Speaker 3: what you find is it being socially disconnected is associated

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Speaker 3: with a mortality effect, and that mortality effect is on

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Speaker 3: par with smoking daily. It's even greater than the mortality

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Speaker 3: impact we see associated with obesity. And so to me,

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Speaker 3: that's why loneliness and isolation are public health issues that

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Speaker 3: should be on par with how we think about tobacco

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Speaker 3: and obesity as concerns.

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Speaker 1: As you know, our lifespan is going down in the

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Speaker 1: United States, and there are some who have described the

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Speaker 1: increase in fatality therefore lowering of our life expectancy as

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Speaker 1: deaths of despair overdoses, gun violence, suicide. Is that how

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Speaker 1: you also think about it?

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Speaker 2: Doctor, You know, I.

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Speaker 3: Do think that there's a deeper despair that's driving a

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Speaker 3: lot of these negative health outcomes, mental and physical that

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Speaker 3: we're worried about. You know, what's striking to me is

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Speaker 3: that when people feel hopeful about the future, it turns

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Speaker 3: out there's actually a fair amount of adversity that they're

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Speaker 3: able to contend with and to overcome. But when we

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Speaker 3: lose that hope, and very importantly, when we feel like

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Speaker 3: we're up against all of these obstacles by ourselves. Then

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Speaker 3: even what seemed like normal everyday adversity can be absolutely overwhelming,

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Speaker 3: and I worry in particular that that's what so many

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Speaker 3: people in our country are experiencing right now. One of

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Speaker 3: the things that I've talked about in the past is

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Speaker 3: that how emotional pain and physical pain actually feel and

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Speaker 3: are interpreted very similarly in our brain. And if you

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Speaker 3: think about loneliness as a deep source of emotional pain,

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Speaker 3: it is not surprising that so many people may look

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Speaker 3: for things to help really that pain. And it's why

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Speaker 3: I think that we actually have to see loneliness is

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Speaker 3: so much more than a health issue, but as a

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Speaker 3: broader societal issue, because when we struggle with loneliness and communities,

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Speaker 3: we know it impacts us well beyond health. The connected

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Speaker 3: communities actually have lower rates of violence, They tend to

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Speaker 3: have higher rates of economic prosperity, They tend to be

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Speaker 3: more resilient in the face of adverse events like a

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Speaker 3: hurricane or a tornado. But they also tend to be

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Speaker 3: more insulated against polarization. It is so much easier to

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Speaker 3: come in and to divide people and turn them against

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Speaker 3: each other when they don't have connections with one another

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Speaker 3: when they're feeling lonely and isolated.

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Speaker 1: Well, inspired by your work, I wrote an article in

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Speaker 1: The Atlantic magazine talking just about that the weaponization of loneliness,

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Speaker 1: because it's not only how people themselves feel, but how

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Speaker 1: those feelings can be manipulated and exacerbated by hateful rhetoric,

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Speaker 1: by finger pointing and scapegoating. And it does seem as

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Speaker 1: though the pandemic, with the amount of isolation that people lived,

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Speaker 1: with their children out of school, with people working from home,

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Speaker 1: with every kind of civic and social activity being canceled

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Speaker 1: or maybe moved online but not having the same in

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Speaker 1: person impact, that this problem became even more acute.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a student observation. And by the way, I

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Speaker 3: so appreciated you writing about loneliness in your Atlantic piece.

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Speaker 3: I heard so much feedback from people who read that

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Speaker 3: article and who had not previously realized just how big

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Speaker 3: a challenge loneliness was. But I think you're exactly right

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Speaker 3: about COVID. It poured fuel on a fire that was

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Speaker 3: burning long before, of a fire of loneliness and isolation

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Speaker 3: and despair. But I'll tell you I spend a lot

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Speaker 3: of time with young people when I travel around the country,

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Speaker 3: and I remember being in a school in Chicago and

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Speaker 3: a young man in high school telling me, he said,

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Speaker 3: you know, I know, it's been a while since, you know,

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Speaker 3: we were all staying at home and not in school.

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Speaker 3: He's like, but I feel like I'm still learning how

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Speaker 3: to socializing it. A young woman in his class actually

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Speaker 3: raised her hand and she said, yeah, I see that

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Speaker 3: all around me. She's like, it's like we all forgot

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Speaker 3: how to be with each other. And their feedback, it

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Speaker 3: turns out, is actually very common. University chaplains who I've

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Speaker 3: been speaking with also, who have been charged with looking

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Speaker 3: out for the health and well being of students, they

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Speaker 3: too say that they feel has become much much harder

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Speaker 3: in the last few years for young people to actually

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Speaker 3: have conversations with one another, especially if they're worried that

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Speaker 3: they may disagree with someone or have a differensive opinion.

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Speaker 3: And so I do think the pandemic made things worse,

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Speaker 3: and we're still recovering from that. And I think Felmin

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Speaker 3: is for older people who look at that, they're like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I went through the pandemic. It was rough,

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Speaker 3: but now I'm fine. Now like, why are these young

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Speaker 3: people having such a hard time? And I think one

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Speaker 3: thing that's really important for folks out there to understand

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Speaker 3: is that young people are not just younger older people,

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Speaker 3: and they're fundamentally at a different phase of development of

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Speaker 3: brain development, of social development. Like you miss a year

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Speaker 3: in middle school, that's a year of critical social development.

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Speaker 3: You're building skills, you're learning how to deal with conflict,

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Speaker 3: you're learning how to start a conversation, how to negotiate

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Speaker 3: differences of opinion.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's also a bigger percentage of their life than

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Speaker 1: it was for somebody like me. I mean a year,

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Speaker 1: a year and a half, two years out of a

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Speaker 1: fourteen year old's life is enormous. I know that you're

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Speaker 1: currently on a tour of college campuses to talk to

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Speaker 1: young people about connecting with each other.

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Speaker 2: How did you make that decision?

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Speaker 1: Because I can imagine with the many things that the

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Speaker 1: Surgeon General has to worry about, going on a college

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Speaker 1: campus tour to talk about loneliness mental health may have

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Speaker 1: struck some people as well. It's a nice thing to do,

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Speaker 1: but is it really important? Whereas I think what you're

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Speaker 1: doing is critical.

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you for that and here's why we decided

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Speaker 3: to do it. For me, the issue of youth mental

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Speaker 3: health rose to the top because I think of our

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Speaker 3: mental health as a fuel that allows us to do

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Speaker 3: everything else we do in our life, to show up

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Speaker 3: for our families in school, at work, and for our communities.

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Speaker 3: And what that fuel tank is running low, as it

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Speaker 3: is for so many people, especially young people in our country,

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Speaker 3: everything else becomes harder, and then we start to ask, well,

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Speaker 3: how come young people aren't doing more of this and

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Speaker 3: more of that. Well, it turns out that there is actually,

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Speaker 3: I think, a common root cause here, and so that's

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Speaker 3: why I wanted to focus on the issue and the tour.

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Speaker 3: Our college tour is a way of actually going directly

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Speaker 3: to young people and not just talking to them about

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Speaker 3: this issue why it's important, but really harnessing their ideas,

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Speaker 3: motivating them to help build the broader movement I think

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Speaker 3: we need in our country to address this deeper youth

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Speaker 3: mental health crisis, because to do it right, we've got

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Speaker 3: to work on multiple fronts. Yes, we have to expand

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Speaker 3: access to treatment, but we've also got to rest the

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Speaker 3: deeper root causes of what's driving this crisis, whether it's

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Speaker 3: how we're using social media and how it's designed, whether

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Speaker 3: it's issues related to trauma and violence, with gun violence

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Speaker 3: now becoming the number one cause of death among children,

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Speaker 3: which is appalling. But these deeper root causes have to

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Speaker 3: be addressed. And there's a cultural piece here too that

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Speaker 3: we've got to address, which is where young people come in,

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Speaker 3: which is we have to fundamentally change not only how

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Speaker 3: we think about mental health and well being and our

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Speaker 3: willingness to talk about it, but we also have to

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Speaker 3: ask ourselves, I think a much more fundamental question as

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Speaker 3: young people and as parents, which is, are we asking

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Speaker 3: our kids to chase the right things in life? The

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Speaker 3: achievement culture that we have right now, I worry has

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Speaker 3: tilted in a direction that has actually become counterproductive and harmful.

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Speaker 3: And I hear this directly from young people who call

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Speaker 3: it hustle culture. They say, we're being asked to chase, chase,

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Speaker 3: chase all of these things, fancy jobs, fancy internships, like

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Speaker 3: the top gp of getting into fancy schools. Is this

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Speaker 3: really going to lead us to happiness, to fulfillment? So

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Speaker 3: changing all of this requires a shift in consciousness, a

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Speaker 3: broader movement that we build a call for a different

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Speaker 3: way of life, and that's something that I think young

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Speaker 3: people are uniquely poised to do. The greatest movements in

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Speaker 3: history have been led and built by young people. And

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Speaker 3: that's one of the reasons I'm going to college campus

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Speaker 3: is it's to talk to them directly about these issues

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Speaker 3: and to help them understand that to do any of

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Speaker 3: this world requires us to build community and connection to

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Speaker 3: sustain and support us through the challenges ahead.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly right. You know.

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Speaker 1: I talked with a group of young women, fifteen sixteen

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Speaker 1: year old girls in high school about the article I

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Speaker 1: wrote about the study that you had done, and you've

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Speaker 1: done several you know, you've talked about the impact of

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Speaker 1: screen life on kids, and it was so fascinating for

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Speaker 1: me to hear what they had to say. You know,

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Speaker 1: they said, look, that is our community. We're on our

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Speaker 1: phones because that's where our community is. I said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it's like not the real life community. And they

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Speaker 1: looked at me like, well, yeah, it is our real life.

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Speaker 1: And I found it fascinating to try to talk about

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Speaker 1: how all the research shows that, you know, too much

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Speaker 1: screen time can lead to bad feelings about yourself, It

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Speaker 1: can lead to greater anxiety and depression. It can lead

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Speaker 1: to young people being you know, more and more alienated.

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Speaker 1: And their pushback was, yeah, but there are no places

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Speaker 1: for us to go. As teenagers, they lived in a

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Speaker 1: place where there were no safe opportunities for them to

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Speaker 1: gather at night, to have fun and just be themselves.

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Speaker 1: They said they found it very difficult to talk to

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Speaker 1: their teachers and their counselors because they just didn't seem

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Speaker 1: to understand even their parents. So the sense of both

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Speaker 1: isolation from the larger world and the creation of what

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Speaker 1: I consider to be a kind of, you know, faux

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Speaker 1: community online is something that they they are not unconscious about.

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Speaker 1: They understand there's a trade off. They just don't know

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Speaker 1: how to do the other and they don't feel like

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Speaker 1: the adults in their lives are able to connect with

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Speaker 1: them either. Does this sound familiar to you.

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Speaker 3: It sounds really familiar. Yeah, And that's really powerful feedback

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Speaker 3: because I think what those young kids were teaching you

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Speaker 3: and teaching me and teaching all of us is that

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Speaker 3: these two things. I think one is that young people

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Speaker 3: do have a remarkable amount of insight into what they're experiencing.

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Speaker 3: But it's also the complexity of solving that. I think

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Speaker 3: that one of the things you're absolutely right that we've

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Speaker 3: lost are these third spaces, these places for people to

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Speaker 3: actually encounter each other and gather. And one of the

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Speaker 3: things I think that happens the more you lose opportunities

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Speaker 3: for in person interactions is that the skills and comfort

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Speaker 3: that you have interacting with people also starts to deteriorate.

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you interestingly interesting happened to me during the pandemic.

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Speaker 3: You know, in the first year of the pandemic, I

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Speaker 3: was a private say, and I was out there like

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Speaker 3: everyone else, just largely trying to protect my family, you know,

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Speaker 3: my own health, et cetera. But I had much less

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Speaker 3: social interaction. And even for me, it took me a

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Speaker 3: while to actually come back and to get comfortable with it.

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Speaker 3: I remember the first time we had parents over from

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Speaker 3: our kids' school to our house, and it was as

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Speaker 3: I was like, wow, this is like taking a lot

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Speaker 3: of energy to like interact with everybody, you know, like

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Speaker 3: it was like a muscle that I had to build

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Speaker 3: back up again. But if you're really young and you're

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Speaker 3: living in an environment where you've actually never been able

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Speaker 3: to truly build that muscle. Because you're in an environment

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Speaker 3: that's been primarily online, then you run into a real

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Speaker 3: challenge in terms of comfort and the skill set itself.

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Speaker 3: And I only say this because I think we both

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Speaker 3: have to create those spaces in our communities and our schools,

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Speaker 3: but we also have to help people develop the comfort

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Speaker 3: and skills. And so I think if we just throw

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Speaker 3: a bunch of people in a room together and say,

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Speaker 3: get to know each other, interact, you know, it may

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Speaker 3: or may not happen. But if we create opportunities for

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Speaker 3: them with a little bit of structur and a little

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Speaker 3: bit of time to actually get to know one another,

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Speaker 3: to learn about each other, and then we give them

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Speaker 3: more time to interact, that can make a world of difference.

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Speaker 3: And that's what I see actually happening in various schools

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Speaker 3: across the country, where young people are starting to build

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Speaker 3: programs where they bring peers together to actually learn about

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Speaker 3: one another, to actually do activities together, sometimes their service

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Speaker 3: projects and engagements, and that kind of in person interaction

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Speaker 3: can actually help people to get more comfortable with in

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Speaker 3: person interaction.

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Speaker 2: We're taking a quick break. Stay with us.

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Speaker 1: On your tour, your college campus tour. You are putting

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Speaker 1: for something called the five for five Challenge.

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Speaker 3: What is that, doctor, Yes, So, one of the things

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Speaker 3: we want to do on the college campus Tour, which

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Speaker 3: we call our We Are Made to Connect Tour, is

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Speaker 3: we want to give young people to experience connection. Let's

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Speaker 3: just talk about it and given the experience of it.

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Speaker 3: So we designed something called our five for five Challenge

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Speaker 3: where we're asking people for five days to take five actions,

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Speaker 3: one action each day that will give them the experience

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Speaker 3: of connection. It could come on one of three forms.

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Speaker 3: You can either express gratitude to someone, you can extend

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Speaker 3: support to someone, or you can ask for help. We

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Speaker 3: do the first one actually with everyone like in the

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Speaker 3: auditorium or the sting that we're in, and what we

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Speaker 3: do is certainly very simple. We ask them to pull

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Speaker 3: out their phone and to compose an email or a

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Speaker 3: text to someone in their life who they're grateful for.

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Speaker 3: It could be for something very simple. Maybe it was

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Speaker 3: someone who a few years ago showed up for you

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Speaker 3: when you were having a really hard day. Maybe it's

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Speaker 3: somebody who knew that you got a big disappointment that

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Speaker 3: maybe you've got a bad grade on a test, or

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Speaker 3: you didn't get picked for the team that you tried

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Speaker 3: out for and they just showed up to listen to you.

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Speaker 3: Whatever it was like, what they made you grateful for them.

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Speaker 3: We asked people to reflect on that and then to

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Speaker 3: send them a short message. The whole thing takes about

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Speaker 3: ninety seconds, and at the end of that we ask

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Speaker 3: everyone who has sent a message of gratitude to turn

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Speaker 3: the flashlight on on their phone and to hold it

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Speaker 3: up and we dim the lights in the auditorium and

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Speaker 3: what you see is so beautiful. It's light after light

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Speaker 3: to sort of pop up and just fill the entire auditorium.

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Speaker 3: You look around you and you realize, wow, there are

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Speaker 3: all of these rays of hope that have just gone

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Speaker 3: out into the world. People are going to receive those

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Speaker 3: messages that people just sent, They're going to feel appreciated,

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Speaker 3: They're going to feel connected, and it's going to feel

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Speaker 3: good to know that you helped create that feeling. So

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Speaker 3: we ask people to do something like this, an active

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Speaker 3: connection over five days, and then to share with us

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Speaker 3: how they're feeling. This is something that anyone can do.

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Speaker 3: The people listening to our conversation today could do. And

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Speaker 3: I guarantee you at the end of those five days,

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Speaker 3: it will feel better, you'll feel more whole.

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Speaker 2: Oh I love that.

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Speaker 1: And I know that there's a lot of literature, research

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Speaker 1: disciplines of all kinds that you really are calling on

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Speaker 1: as you talk about that, because you know, gratitude is

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Speaker 1: an attitude, and if you make yourself do it, and

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Speaker 1: you force yourself to say, Okay, what am I grateful

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Speaker 1: for despite how hard the day was, it changes your

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Speaker 1: brain chemistry, doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: It really does. And you know one thing is it's

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Speaker 3: very difficult to be grateful and to be angry at

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Speaker 3: the same time.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, and sadly, there are people in our politics today

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Speaker 1: who want to get you angry and keep you angry.

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Speaker 1: So I have to ask you, as you've traveled around,

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Speaker 1: as you've talked about these studies and reports that you've issued,

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Speaker 1: are you feeling more or less hopeful than you did before?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 3: My gosh, I'm feeling so much more hopeful. Of all

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Speaker 3: the public health issues that I've worked on over the

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Speaker 3: last however many years, there is no issue that I

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Speaker 3: have found has resonated more strongly with the public than

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Speaker 3: this issue of loneliness and social connection. And I think

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Speaker 3: it's because so many people have been feeling it. When

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Speaker 3: I go into a room, I'll ask people how many

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Speaker 3: of you know someone in your life who's struggling with loneliness.

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Speaker 3: I'd say ninety five plus percent of the hands go up.

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Speaker 4: Wo.

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Speaker 3: So it is so commonly and deeply felt, but rarely

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Speaker 3: talked about. And I think the opportunity to actually get

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Speaker 3: at the heart of what is causing and driving so

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Speaker 3: much as despair, I think it is one that people

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Speaker 3: are embracing, so one that makes me feel hopeful. But

438
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 3: the second thing that's happened as we've had these conversations

439
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 3: is I've found people, especially young people, starting to take

440
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 3: action in their own communities to build connection. And that

441
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 3: is actually the great thing about rebuilding the social fabric

442
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 3: of our country is that it's something that we can

443
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 3: each start doing, Like we don't have to wait for

444
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 3: an Act of Congress.

445
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 2: Literally or figuratively.

446
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 3: We can start taking action in our day to day

447
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 3: lives and we can feel the results of it within

448
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 3: short order. It's why I just I feel compelled to

449
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 3: want to do everything I can to build a broader

450
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 3: movement around social connection. And this is partly about the

451
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 3: practices you know of connecting and building those skills, exercising

452
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 3: that muscle and creating spaces for people to connect at

453
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,199
Speaker 3: a really deeper level. Like to me, this is also about,

454
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 3: I would say, the deeper values that we want to

455
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 3: be reflected, like in our lives and in our communities.

456
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 3: What worries me is hearing so often from people who

457
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 3: say to me, Vivik, you know, it feels like it's

458
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 3: become more important to be right than to be kind,

459
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 3: more important to be powerful than to be just. I

460
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 3: hear that again and again and again, and I think

461
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 3: for many people they've come to wonder, like, what are

462
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: the values that are driving us but in our hearts?

463
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 3: Like when I sit down and talk to people about

464
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 3: people know like what values they fundamentally want to be

465
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 3: reflected in their child's lives. People, I think, still, despite

466
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 3: the cynicism that we may you know, encounter and see,

467
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 3: people still do think it's important to serve others. They

468
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 3: think it's important to be considerate and to be kind.

469
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 3: They think that relationships and our friendships are important and

470
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: worth investing in. I think we have the opportunity to

471
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 3: bring those kind of values back to the forefront, to

472
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 3: a place where they actually inform how we shape our lives,

473
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 3: and they can do so, in fact, by helping us

474
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 3: build stronger connections. And when we do that, those values

475
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 3: can not just affect how we interact with other people,

476
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 3: but they can start to impact how we think about

477
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 3: the programs we support, the issues we advocate for, the

478
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 3: leaders we choose, the workplaces we structure, the curricula that

479
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 3: we build for our kids. Because I'll tell you this

480
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 3: at I and feel it strongly now as a parent,

481
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 3: I think it's just as important for our kids to

482
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 3: learn how to understand their emotions, how to build healthy relationships,

483
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 3: how to manage conflict, how to have real conversations, especially

484
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 3: when we disagree, but do so respectfully. It just is

485
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 3: important for them to build those skills, I believe, as

486
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 3: it is for them to learn how to read and

487
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 3: to write, and to learn about history and economics.

488
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: Oh amen, Amen, doctor Murphy, that is music to my heart.

489
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for spending time talking to me

490
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: about these profoundly important issues, and I just wish you

491
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: the very very best as you continue to try to

492
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: talk about this, make connections and especially reach out to

493
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: our young people.

494
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this conversation.

495
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 3: I'm so glad that we had this time together, and

496
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 3: thank you again for all your focus and concern on

497
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 3: this issue of social connection and loneliness. It's so important,

498
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 3: so I'm grateful for you.

499
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: If you want to take up the five for five

500
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: Connection Challenge, and really I think every one of us should,

501
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: you can find more information about it online. As I

502
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, When I'm feeling low and perhaps even feeling

503
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: oh kind of despairing about the state of the world,

504
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 1: there's nothing I like better than catching a live theater

505
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: performance to lift my spirits.

506
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 2: And my next guest has.

507
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: Taken audiences on so many amazing theatrical journeys. John Leguizamo

508
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: had his first breakout performance in nineteen ninety one with

509
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 1: a one man show called Mambo Mouth. Since then, he's written, produced,

510
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: and performed in multiple Broadway shows. He's starred in a

511
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: bunch of films like Chef and maybe you heard his

512
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: voice in Disney's in Canto, or perhaps you caught him

513
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: on his fantastic MSNBC TV series Leguizamo Does America, where

514
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: he travels across the country, bringing viewers inside some of

515
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: America's thriving Latino communities places like Miami, Chicago, and of

516
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 1: course LA But honestly, what I know John best for

517
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 1: is the way he shows up for his Latino brothers

518
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: and sisters over and over again. He mobilizes them to

519
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 1: make their voices heard. He pushes the entertainment industry to

520
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: represent them, and he celebrates the contributions they've made to

521
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: our country and the many ways they come together in community.

522
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: It was such a personal delight to speak with him

523
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: for the show.

524
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 4: Hi, John, Hillary, how are you so good to see you?

525
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: It is great to see you. Thank you for doing this,

526
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: and I'm glad you got the Knicks cap on.

527
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: You're ready, ready for the season. This will be the one, John,

528
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 2: This is This does like the one.

529
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 4: I mean, I thought it was going to be for

530
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,479
Speaker 4: the Mets as well, but it was not.

531
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: The Cats were such a disappointment, crazy disappointment, and the

532
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: Yankees were also disappointing. So yeah, I mean, well, I'm

533
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: going to get started because I'm so excited to talk

534
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: to you.

535
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: Welcome the show, John.

536
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,959
Speaker 1: It is such a pleasure for me to have this

537
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: chance to talk with you. You know, earlier in this episode,

538
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: I talked with Surgeon General Murphy, who has really zeroed

539
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: in on what he calls an epidemic of loneliness and

540
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: isolation in the country, and he has some ideas about

541
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: how to get ourselves out.

542
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: Of it and what we individually can do.

543
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: But I thought you'd be a great person to talk

544
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: to because your work serves as an antidote to a

545
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: lot of those feelings. And you also are a person

546
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: who wants to create community and connections wherever you go.

547
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: So let's get into it now. You were born in Bogota, Colombias,

548
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: but moved to New York City when you were four.

549
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: How is that immigrant experience for you and your family?

550
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 2: Wild?

551
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 4: You know, I'm only just now being able to unpack

552
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 4: it and tease it out, because you can't in the

553
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 4: moment understand the huge impacts on your family and mental

554
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 4: health and everything. You know, just until now recently, I

555
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 4: just realized the PTSD my parents suffered. You know, I

556
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 4: had no idea until I was old enough, and and

557
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 4: and thousands of hours in therapy to understand that they

558
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 4: left everything they knew, all their friends, all their family,

559
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 4: their language, their culture, came into a world they knew

560
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 4: nothing nothing. Uh so they had that you know, but

561
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 4: with landed in jackson I's Queens because you know, every

562
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 4: friend says, yeah friends, you know, some Colombians said, you know,

563
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 4: it is the place that come and there are more

564
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 4: people like us, and everybody speaks Spanish from this or

565
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 4: they came here. We lived in a one apartment that

566
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 4: was so small. The furniture was painted on the walls,

567
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 4: you know, the chairs were painted. There were no chairs,

568
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 4: and we had a murphy bed, you know those things

569
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 4: that it goes up in the morning, so you have

570
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 4: a living room, it comes down.

571
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it puts it against the wall exactly.

572
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 4: And you put a tablecloth on it for dinner. And

573
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 4: then if you take the tablecloth in, it's dead time.

574
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 4: And then my parents were hard working. The next year

575
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 4: we were all we all slept, all four of us

576
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 4: slept there with my brother. And then the following year

577
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 4: my parents got a place where they had their own room.

578
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,959
Speaker 4: And then they kept working hard and hard, and then

579
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,479
Speaker 4: eventually my father bought a house in Queen's and rented

580
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 4: all the rooms. So I grew up with strangers all

581
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 4: my life, five different strangers. I learned how to higiene

582
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 4: like in seconds flat to get into that bathroom because

583
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 4: I shared a bathroom with five different strangers.

584
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

585
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, but boy, that's an incredible story of hard work

586
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: and determination of your parents. When did you decide that?

587
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: You know, hey, I kind of like this acting. Was

588
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: it when you were dodging the strangers of the house?

589
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: I mean, where did that come from?

590
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 4: I was kind of like this class clown. I was,

591
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 4: you know, my parents said your betty hype it. That

592
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 4: was for like you know what they called adhd back then.

593
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 4: So I had a lot of energy and couldn't be

594
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 4: still and I had to entertain and do voices and characters.

595
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 4: And I grew up in Jackson Heights, which is the

596
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 4: most diverse place in the world.

597
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: It is.

598
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: People don't know that Queens is the most diverse county

599
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: in the United States and one of the most diverse

600
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: places in the world.

601
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 2: And Jackson Heights truly is.

602
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's incredible. So I grew up, you know where

603
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 4: the nice Jewish family that lived the cross the steper

604
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 4: most and what abut us for it? For say, and

605
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 4: then the Jamaican people are be coming out to enjoying

606
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 4: the black parties and everything be great blood clot.

607
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: Lots of Indian food, too.

608
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 4: He has wonderful Indian food everywhere. I loved it, everything

609
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 4: but wonderful. And you know, every Latin diaspora is there.

610
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 4: Chile and Sargentines, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Cubans, Colombians, Ecuadorians, Peruvians

611
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 4: were all there. And so I had all this access

612
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 4: to accents and voices, and I would act out in class,

613
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 4: always wanted to be the class clown, and it was

614
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 4: very competitive. In my school. There was this lunch table

615
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 4: that if you crack the best jokes you got to

616
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 4: sit at. But if you adn't crack a good joke,

617
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 4: you couldn't sit at that table.

618
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: So savage.

619
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 4: That was savage. So I learned to start writing. That's

620
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 4: when I started writing my jokes. I would prepare att

621
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 4: I could win so I could be at that table.

622
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 4: And that's when I started writing.

623
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: Were there people you started to look up to when

624
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: you began to talk about, Hey, you know, I might

625
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: try to do this for a living. I might, you know,

626
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: take my jokes and leave the high school cafeteria and

627
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: go somewhere with them.

628
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 4: You know, my math teaching misuzufa. You know, I'm a

629
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 4: big believer in mentors. And that's why I try to

630
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 4: be a mentor myself. I think when you come from

631
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 4: the hood and underprivileged, you need that person that comes

632
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 4: to you and puts their hand on your shoulder and

633
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 4: says you're worthwhile. You have something to offer the world,

634
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 4: because you don't know that. You just all the time,

635
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 4: especially being a Latin man in America, where you don't

636
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 4: see yourself reflected anywhere, positively or otherwise. You're not in

637
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 4: the history classes, you're not in the literature classes, you're

638
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 4: not in the math classes. It's no one that looks

639
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 4: like you in the books you're reading anywhere. You know,

640
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 4: Latin children are the least pictured aracters in children's books,

641
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 4: So it starts there. You know, you're more likely to

642
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 4: see an animal than you see a Latin face as

643
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 4: a child. And then John Hopkins did a study and

644
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,479
Speaker 4: found out that eighty seven percent of our contributions, Latin

645
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 4: people's contributions to the making of America are not in

646
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 4: history textbooks, and the thirteen percent that is there gets

647
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 4: like less than five sentences. So how do you build

648
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 4: yourself for it? You know? And so this math teach

649
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 4: Misusufa says to me, you know, you miss no Soila,

650
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 4: squeeze Moe. You can never say money, mister Miller Grisomo,

651
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 4: mister peptibismo, you have the attention span of a sperm.

652
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 4: If they can make penicillin out of moldy bread, we

653
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 4: can do something with you. And he suggested I take

654
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 4: acting classes, you know, and I yes. And it takes that,

655
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 4: you know, it takes a lot of people telling you

656
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 4: you're worthwhile, that you have something, and then then the

657
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 4: coin dropped in, you know, the proverbial coin.

658
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 2: Aha, yeah, yeah, you know.

659
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: Live theater is an art form that literally brings people

660
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: together to share an experience for a certain amount of time,

661
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: and it's one of the reasons why I love it

662
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: so much. And I know you started in live theater

663
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: and a breakout moment for your career was your solo

664
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: play Mombo Mouth, where you played a whole bunch of characters,

665
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: and I think we got just a little taste of

666
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: how quickly you can move from you know, using your

667
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: voice to create different characters. Can you describe that play

668
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: for our listeners and how it came about?

669
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 4: Oh? Sure, sure, So here I was at NYU going

670
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 4: to college, right, and I'm paying the same as everybody,

671
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 4: and I'm getting a's actually, and I'm with dB Sweeney

672
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 4: and Edwin McCarthy and They're going to five editions a

673
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 4: day and I'm going to one every five months. And

674
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 4: the cast breakdown was like Jim Crow was like white actor,

675
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 4: white lead, white romantic lead, white doctor, white lawyer, you know,

676
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 4: and they wouldn't see you because you're Latin whatever anyway,

677
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 4: So I knew my chances were different. So I went

678
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 4: to the performance arts pace, comedy space wherever they would

679
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 4: let me, basically, and so I started creating these characters

680
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 4: in these performance art spaces downtown that were thriving. All

681
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 4: the creativity of New York City was downtown East Village

682
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 4: and there are all these great clubs, Gusta House, a

683
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 4: Dixon Place as one two, the kitchen knitting factory, Home

684
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 4: La Cucaraate. It was all these places where you could

685
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 4: test out crazy material, political material, you could be naked,

686
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 4: you could do whatever you wanted, but it had to

687
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 4: be art. So I started doing my characters there and

688
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 4: then eventually I had like ten and I put them

689
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 4: together with the help of Win Handman, who had put

690
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 4: together Eric Pogosian's work, and I had seen Lily Tomlin's

691
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 4: masterful piece and will be Goldberg's life changing piece for me,

692
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 4: and I wanted to do something, make it different in

693
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 4: making my own, and so I did mamble Mouth and

694
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 4: got a brave review from the Times, which back then

695
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 4: the Times could make you a break. And then in

696
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 4: my theater.

697
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 2: Was Arthur Miller, the Arthur Miller.

698
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 4: I shook his hand, Sam Shephard, Cow Pacinos, Oh, come on,

699
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 4: Oh Julia. The list goes on and on. It was incredible,

700
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 4: and I learned to run outside quickly before they could

701
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 4: all escape because I knew that the magnitude of these people,

702
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 4: and I wanted to shake every single one of their hands.

703
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 2: Wow. I love that story.

704
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: And you then followed up Mambo Mouth with five other

705
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: solo pieces on stage, and most recently, the highly acclaimed

706
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: Latin History for Morons.

707
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 2: First of all, I love the title, Oh God. Every

708
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 2: time I look at.

709
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 1: It or rehear it or read it, I start laughing.

710
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: So is that a way kind of using your humor

711
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,720
Speaker 1: and your creativity to kind of make the point like, Hey, people,

712
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: we've been here a long time, and we've done a

713
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff, and I'm going to give you the

714
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: short version.

715
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, definitely, I mean, obviously Latin history morons.

716
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 4: I was a moron because I was like, wait a minute,

717
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 4: I didn't know all these incredible facts about our contributions

718
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 4: to the making of America. We built America alongside Afro Americans,

719
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 4: but in the Southwest and the West. You know, we

720
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 4: built the railroads when our Chinese brothers and sisters were

721
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 4: kicked out. We built all the infrastructure bridges of everything

722
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 4: in the Southwest and the West. From the eighteen hundreds,

723
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 4: you know, were the only minority to have fought in

724
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 4: every single war America has ever had. And I'm talking

725
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 4: about the American Revolution. Ten thousand unknown Latino patriots fought.

726
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 4: And then I did the math. I was like, because

727
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 4: I'm a rain man of Latin facts, and I was like,

728
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 4: wait a minute. How many tot troops were in the

729
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 4: American Revolution? Typed it out? Eighty thousand. We were one

730
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 4: in eight. So we are the sons and daughters of

731
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 4: the American Revolution. Juan Mete I is from Cuba, raised

732
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 4: two million dollars for his bromance George Washington from Cuba,

733
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 4: Mexico and Spain. These facts started becoming available to me

734
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 4: and it changed me my chromosomes, my DNA and everyone

735
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 4: who saw it. And I made it funny because even though.

736
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: These facts are serious, but yeah.

737
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 4: They change you. I have to seduce an audience, even

738
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 4: a Latin audience, I have to seduce them to wanting

739
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 4: to know these facts, you know. So yeah, I love

740
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 4: that challenge.

741
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,959
Speaker 1: But you know, through that challenge, you're doing a couple

742
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: of things. Not only you know, successfully performing in front

743
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 1: of audiences that keep coming back for more, but you're

744
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: also you're expanding the definition of America for people who

745
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: don't understand the contributions of everybody who came before. I mean,

746
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: we talk about community, we talk about connection, we can

747
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: also about country. And you know, I've always loved the

748
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: idea that America was this place where people came from everywhere,

749
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: made their stake, worked hard, you know, got things done,

750
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: raised their kids, kept going. And you know that it's

751
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 1: frightening to some people in America today if they don't

752
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: look like you and worship like you, and think like

753
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: you and vote like you, and you in a I

754
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: would say somewhat kind of quiet and very subversive way

755
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: are expanding that definition. I mean, what is somebody going

756
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 1: to say when you say, hey, did you know there

757
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: was this Latin guy who knew George Washington and he

758
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: went off and raised money for the Revolutionary Army?

759
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 2: Hey, what do you think about that?

760
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: It just scrambles their brain and maybe it opens up

761
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: a little space so that they can see that we

762
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: all are part of this great American community. You know,

763
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: one unique performance you gave was of your play Ghetto Clown,

764
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: and you performed it at Rikers Island. And for listeners

765
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: who aren't familiar with New York City, that's New York

766
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: City's biggest jail.

767
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 2: You know.

768
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: Anybody who gets arrested, if they're going to be remanded,

769
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: they go to a Rikers Island, which is a really,

770
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: really tough place. Why why was it important to bring

771
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: your comedy to that venue in person?

772
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 2: And how did it go? How were you received?

773
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 4: It was fascinating because you know, I know that the

774
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 4: majority of the population there is Latino and black mm hmm,

775
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 4: you know, and that's the community I grew up in,

776
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 4: so I know they're ignored. I've been part of GOSO

777
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 4: Get Out, Stay Out for ten years. Mark Goldsmith, this

778
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 4: man who should be a national treasurer has run it

779
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 4: for thirty years, you know, raises the money himself, and

780
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 4: it's a high school at Rikers and gives these kids

781
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 4: a chance to study and make something of themselves, and

782
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 4: they do. Ninety nine percent of them never return back

783
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 4: to the system. So I felt like I had to

784
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 4: go in there and bring something to them. And I

785
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 4: didn't know how I was going to be received. You know,

786
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 4: I thought they might think I'm corny now because I've

787
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 4: been you know, I'm no longer in the hood, and

788
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 4: so I didn't know. I didn't know how They're going

789
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 4: to take my humor who I am, But they were.

790
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 4: They were. They were a captive audience. They laughed. All

791
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 4: these kids laughed, the guards laughed. They were all really digging.

792
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 4: I don't even think there was my jokes. They were enjoying.

793
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 4: It was enjoying that somebody came in to give them something.

794
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 4: That's what they were digging. And obviously the little gravy

795
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,919
Speaker 4: that you know, they heard cultural things, a little code

796
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 4: switching and you know, little things that light up in

797
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 4: their heads. Go, oh, that's that's how I grew up.

798
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 4: That's how my mom talks, that's how my uncle talks.

799
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: But you know what else I really like about this

800
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: is that you went into a place that you didn't

801
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: have to go. There was nobody saying, Hey, for your career, John,

802
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: you should go to Rikers and do you know a

803
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 1: performance for the inmates. You did it because you sense

804
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,479
Speaker 1: that connection. You know, as you said, these these were

805
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: like the kids you grew up with. It's that kind

806
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: of reaching out. You know, always tell people when they

807
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: are saying they don't know what to do. You know,

808
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: they feel like their life doesn't have any meaning. We'll

809
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: go out and help somebody, go out and do something

810
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: for somebody else. It's amazing how that rebounds to you.

811
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: I mean, that's so obvious, But it takes doing it

812
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 1: for people to feel it, doesn't it.

813
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean, yeah, you know you said it's so right, Hillary.

814
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 4: I felt like them, you know, I felt like I

815
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 4: could have been them, and I felt I had to

816
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 4: go in there and give them some hope. I just

817
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 4: felt I needed to do that.

818
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

819
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I sat with them. I sat with them,

820
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 4: We talked. They made me eat their food, which was disgusting,

821
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 4: but they made me. They go, you got it, John,

822
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 4: I go, No, don't make me dude, I gave me.

823
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 4: I performed for two hours for you coming. No, you

824
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 4: gotta eat it. I go all right, it was all great.

825
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 4: It was cabbage, ham, potatoes in the gray water, flavorless.

826
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 4: It was nasty.

827
00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:58,479
Speaker 2: And these are.

828
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: People who have not, let me stress, been convicted of anything.

829
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 4: Right.

830
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: This is not a prison.

831
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 1: This is a jail, and this is a jail where

832
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: people are waiting to be tried, and we treat them

833
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: like the most hardened, worst criminals in the universe.

834
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 2: It's disgusting, it is.

835
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 4: But Hillary, You're incredible. I mean, nobody else would have

836
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 4: this understanding of the system, but you. I love that.

837
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 4: I love that about you. How you have your bandwidth

838
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 4: of knowledge is so intense.

839
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I've spent a lot of time in

840
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: my life trying to figure out how to fix things.

841
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of things sort of defy fixing.

842
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: But you got to keep thinking about it.

843
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, you got it. You got to keep trying to

844
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 4: fix it.

845
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 2: You can't give up.

846
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 4: You can't, No, you can't.

847
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 2: You know.

848
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: And it's also amazing to me how some kind of kindness,

849
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: some kind of gesture of concern, goes such a long way,

850
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: and that doesn't cost anybody anything. Like you're talking about

851
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 1: your math teacher. He could have said to you, eh,

852
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 1: you're not good in math, You're not going to be anything. No,

853
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: Instead he said, hey, come on, I think I know

854
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: where you could really excel. That was a kindness and

855
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: you know, you pay it forward, you keep going, and uh,

856
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: I just wish we could get back to that.

857
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 4: Yes, America is losing that. We've we were starting to

858
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 4: lose our respect for each other with.

859
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:21,399
Speaker 2: Our empathy, I mean.

860
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 4: Empathy, Uh, decency, These are values that no longer are

861
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 4: important to Americans. So a lot of America's not to everybody.

862
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 4: Everybody deep down wants that and.

863
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 2: We have, but we have to keep modeling it and

864
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 2: showing it. Yeah, we'll be right back.

865
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 4: You know.

866
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 2: In addition to.

867
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: All this creative work that you have been doing, you've

868
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: also been a really strong advocate for Latino representation in

869
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: me in politics, in government, every walk of life. And

870
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,720
Speaker 1: you've made the point over and over again that although

871
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: Latinos make up what approximately nineteen twenty percent now of

872
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: the American population, there is such a tiny slice of

873
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: that represented as main characters in movies and television. Among

874
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: producers and directors. Why is this such a persistent problem.

875
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: There is an audience. We know there's an audience.

876
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 4: Yeah. Before I get into that, let me give you

877
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 4: the numbers, because it's it's horrifying too and disgusting. With

878
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 4: thirty percent of the US box office, four billion dollars

879
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 4: in streaming in America, we just hit a milestone. We

880
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 4: add three point two trillion dollars to the GDP annually.

881
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 4: We have a buying power in America three point four

882
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 4: trillion dollars.

883
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,240
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow, We put all.

884
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 4: This money into America and we get nothing back. We

885
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 4: are less than two percent of the leads and films,

886
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 4: less than one percent of the stories being told, with

887
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 4: less than zero point zero eight of the actors on Broadway.

888
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 4: Even though we're equal to whites in New York City

889
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 4: and population whites are thirty two percent of the population,

890
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 4: we're like thirty one percent and just invisible everywhere. Zero

891
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 4: percent of this of the top executives in Hollywood, and

892
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 4: I use Hollywood because it's easier to see, to see

893
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 4: the exclusion, the invisibility, our lack of access. Because it's

894
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 4: happening in the corporate world, banking, tech, and medicine, everywhere.

895
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 4: I hear talk to Latin executives everywhere who say, I

896
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 4: work three times as hard as everybody for a small salary,

897
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 4: and I see everybody getting promoted around me except me,

898
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 4: and I experienced it in Hollywood. You know. I bring

899
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 4: huge numbers, over a billion dollars worth of movies with

900
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 4: ice age and conto, all the big hits that I've

901
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 4: been in, and yet it's always still a struggle to

902
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 4: get a role because you know, when they do mad Men,

903
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 4: they didn't think Latin people existed. When they do All

904
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 4: the Crown, you know, there's never a Latin person there.

905
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 4: There's so many ways of excluding us until we get

906
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 4: executives who look like us, you know, like Saysar Conde, chairman.

907
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 2: Of NBC, has that made a difference, huge difference.

908
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 4: I pitched this one show, The Guzama Does America for

909
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 4: six years to everybody, everybody, you name it, the network,

910
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 4: the studio. Nobody got it until Saysar Conde of NBC chairman,

911
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 4: said let's do it. And my show is the number

912
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 4: one hit for the last three years, original hit on MSNBC.

913
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 4: Then we're going to season two.

914
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 2: Okay, tell everybody the name of the show.

915
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 4: Like Guizamo does America, like you know, Debbie does Dallas.

916
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,800
Speaker 4: I'm doing the same thing that Debbie did to Dallas

917
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 4: to America.

918
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 2: Yeah.

919
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you know part of that. I'm going to

920
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 1: let that pass. I was thinking more like Anthony Bourdaine

921
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 1: or you know, Stanley Tucci, or you know somebody like that.

922
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 2: Those are more my comparisons. Yeah.

923
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: I mean, you make such a great point, and I

924
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: do think I don't want to overstate this point because

925
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: there are many many reasons why people feel disconnected isolated.

926
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 2: But if you don't see people who.

927
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,919
Speaker 1: Look like you, if you don't feel that you are

928
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 1: welcomed into the larger community, that has an impact on

929
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,439
Speaker 1: how you think of yourself, and it starts to eat

930
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: away at your self esteem and your confidence.

931
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 4: It's not only just important for the young person who's

932
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 4: developing their self worth and projecting themselves into the future.

933
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 4: It's also the way other people look at you and

934
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 4: treat you when our facts incredible facts. You know that

935
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,280
Speaker 4: we were the most awarded and every single war America

936
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,959
Speaker 4: has ever had, twenty thousand US fought in a civil war.

937
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 4: Five hundred thousands of US sacrificed our lives in World

938
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 4: War Two and the incredible heroes. Gil Bosquez, a diplomat, say,

939
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 4: forty thousand Jews in this she France by renting two

940
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 4: churches and putting twenty thousand Jews in each and then

941
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 4: giving them asylum in Mexico. You know, if people knew

942
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 4: these facts, then you you can respect a culture and

943
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 4: an ethnic group and go, oh my god, you've contributed

944
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 4: so much. They treat you differently. You treat it with

945
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 4: more respect. You're you're given a seat at the table.

946
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 4: Without that, you're told what have you done for us?

947
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 4: What have you done for us?

948
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 2: Where are you from? Where are you from from?

949
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 4: Go back to where you came from. Oh yeah, we've

950
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 4: been here for five hundred years. You know, the first

951
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 4: language spoken in the European language spoke in America is

952
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:33,280
Speaker 4: not English, the Spanish.

953
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 2: That's you got it right.

954
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 1: Well, that's one of the reasons why you're so committed

955
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 1: to fighting for a national Latino Museum on the National Mall.

956
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:43,240
Speaker 2: Where is that process?

957
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 4: Oh my god, you know it's been I just joined

958
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 4: ten years ago, but they've been at it for forty years.

959
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 4: It tasts forever. We got it through Congress, we got

960
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 4: it from the Senate by partisan Now we just need

961
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 4: to be on the We want to be on the mall.

962
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 4: That's the big We want to be across from the

963
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 4: beautiful African American music, which is stunning, and it's a

964
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 4: small plot of lands. We have to build higher and

965
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,879
Speaker 4: deeper to get all our you know, we've been here

966
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:09,879
Speaker 4: for you know, with our because we've got to start

967
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:13,320
Speaker 4: with our empires. Yeah, you know, Inca, Maya, Aztec, thousands

968
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 4: of years been here. So yeah, that's that's our next fight.

969
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 4: We're getting a little you know, pushback from certain representatives

970
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 4: and we're working them. Chuck Schumer is helping us, Clobature

971
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 4: is helping us, Murkowski's helping us. We're getting a lot

972
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 4: of help to forge the language that will make everyone happy,

973
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 4: to allow us to have a place in the mall

974
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 4: because I don't want to be twenty miles out because

975
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 4: then you feel like like second rate, like a second class.

976
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well I really wish you well on that

977
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: because that's an important effort. And you know, as we close,

978
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 1: I just want to ask you about the so called

979
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 1: Latino vote. People talk about it all the time, and

980
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 1: now we're heading into the twenty twenty four election cycle.

981
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 2: But you know, of course Latino voters have varied backgrounds,

982
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 2: they have different priorities like any other large group. How

983
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 2: do you see your.

984
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: Role now as an active and outspoken leader in a

985
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 1: very diverse community.

986
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:18,720
Speaker 4: Diverse, yes, but the largest voting block in America after whites.

987
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 4: M fifty four percent of our registered voters voted. So

988
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 4: we vote. But you have to talk to us. You

989
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 4: have to reach out toactly. You have to have Latin

990
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 4: consultants who tell you what to talk to us about.

991
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 4: Because the Republicans were better at it than us. They

992
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 4: got on what's app in Arizona and in Florida, they

993
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 4: got in our Spanish radio stations and advertised and gave

994
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 4: the trigger words. You know, socialism. It triggers Cubans and Venezuelans,

995
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 4: and now it's triggering Colombians because of what's happening in

996
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 4: the neighbor country. Right, So they knew the right trigger words.

997
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 4: We didn't know. We just ignored it. You know that

998
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 4: Democrats paid no attention. Yeah, you know, there's a lot

999
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:04,760
Speaker 4: of very Christian Latinos who are you know, homophobic, anti abortion,

1000
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 4: you have they exist, but the majority of us are Democrats.

1001
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 4: But you still have to win us. You have to

1002
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 4: win us. You have to court us, you have to

1003
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 4: knock on our doors, you have to pick up that home.

1004
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 2: Percent, you know. And I always loved it. I always

1005
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 2: loved campaigning.

1006
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 1: My very first job in politics was registering voters in

1007
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 1: South Texas in the you know, Rio Grande Valley. I

1008
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: mean I loved it. I mean, campaigning in and to

1009
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: communities in the large Latino vote arena is fun. And

1010
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: I would do the I would do the radio shows.

1011
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: Oh my god, They're hilarious, those radio shows.

1012
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 2: I mean I had no.

1013
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: Idea what anybody was saying before or after I got on,

1014
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: but we had so much fun and bells would be

1015
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: wrong and drums would be hit.

1016
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 2: I mean, we we really.

1017
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: It is one of my favorite, you know kinds of campaigning,

1018
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 1: even in New York City when I used to campaign,

1019
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I mean, you know, going from community

1020
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: to community, playing dominoes and a Dominican housing complex, you know,

1021
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: going to Puerto Rican Day Parade, going to queens and

1022
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 1: meeting up with all of the Colombians and everybody else. Anyway,

1023
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: I highly recommend it to anybody who's running for office.

1024
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 4: That's amazing. I mean, that's why you had the impact

1025
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 4: you had. I mean, because you are turned on by people.

1026
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 2: I like it.

1027
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 4: You are turned on by being amongst Americans.

1028
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: And I guess that leads to you know, coming full

1029
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: circle in our conversation. There is all this variety and

1030
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: different patternss of assimilation, and you know it far better

1031
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: than I. But I think Latino communities in America have

1032
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:50,359
Speaker 1: some unique and valuable traditions and lessons to teach the

1033
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: rest of us about alleviating the epidemic of loneliness. I mean,

1034
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:59,760
Speaker 1: if people are lonely, what can you tell them about

1035
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 1: the importance of connectivity and maybe some of the traditions

1036
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: or the joys that you have in your own community.

1037
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 4: It's so funny to say that, because I've been looking

1038
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,240
Speaker 4: at that, you know. I always say being a Latin

1039
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 4: is a superpower because we're the only culture in the

1040
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 4: world whose religion, language, and culture were destroyed in the

1041
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 4: conquest and here we are three point two trillion dollars

1042
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 4: adding it to the GDP. So it's a superpower. And

1043
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 4: what is that We are the most joyful people in

1044
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:34,720
Speaker 4: the world. We enjoy everything you enjoy everyone. We enjoy

1045
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:39,320
Speaker 4: every aspect of life, and we enjoyed in community, in groups.

1046
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,879
Speaker 4: We love bringing our family together. My grandfather had all

1047
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 4: his kids living with them, with their spouses and their grandkids.

1048
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 4: And yeah, we had to share a lot of bathrooms,

1049
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 4: but you shared a lot of stories.

1050
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 2: And a lot of love and a lot of love.

1051
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 4: And that was beautiful. I'll never forget that feeling of connectivity,

1052
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 4: community in one house, twenty people my Thanksgiving. This Thanksgiving

1053
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 4: it will be thirty people, or Indigenous Survival Day as

1054
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 4: I call it.

1055
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,439
Speaker 2: Well, and also the food, Let's not forget the food.

1056
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 2: It's really good. I mean so much variety of food.

1057
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 2: You know, John, I just love talking to you.

1058
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful to you for not just your creativity

1059
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,879
Speaker 1: but the courage you have in getting yourself out there

1060
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:31,439
Speaker 1: and being a not just a spokesperson and a role

1061
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 1: model and an activist, but someone who really cares about

1062
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 1: what happens in this country.

1063
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 4: Well, thank you, Hillary. I mean, you're such a huge

1064
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 4: inspiration to me and to many many, many people, and

1065
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 4: seeing you just shows me what I can do with

1066
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 4: the rest of my life and to keep going and

1067
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:53,439
Speaker 4: never quit and never give up, persevere, and you're that

1068
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 4: emblematic figure for me.

1069
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much.

1070
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:06,320
Speaker 1: When John and I spoke the SAG afterra Actors strike

1071
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: was still going on, so we couldn't really get into

1072
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: his TV series, Leguizamo Does America. But now that the

1073
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: strike is thankfully over, I want to give a huge

1074
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: shout out for this great series. It's smart, joyful, and

1075
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 1: of course very funny, just like John, so please check

1076
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: it out. It's on Peacock, which is the NBC streaming service,

1077
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 1: and on Hulu. I think you'll get at least a

1078
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: good laugh or two. You and Me Both is brought

1079
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 1: to you by iHeart Podcasts. We're produced by Julie Subren,

1080
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: Kathleen Russo and Rob Russo, with help from Khuma Abadeen,

1081
00:57:53,720 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 1: Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Sarah Horowitz, Laura Olin, Lona Valmorro

1082
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: and the Lily Weber. Our engineer is Zach McNeice and

1083
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: the original music is by Forest Gray. If you like

1084
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: You and Me Both, tell someone else about it. And

1085
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Speaker 1: if you're not already a subscriber, what are you waiting for?

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00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 1: You can subscribe to You and Me Both on the

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00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and i'll see you next week.