Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me,
Speaker 1: Tommy Diderio. So my podcast celebrates the artist that you love, right,
Speaker 1: people that are such important and massive parts of pop
Speaker 1: culture history. And that is why I am so excited
Speaker 1: to have my very first author on the show, because
Speaker 1: she is a voice that we all love, and I
Speaker 1: think many of us would agree we all need. Anna
Speaker 1: Huang is a number one New York Times, Sunday Times,
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and Amazon best selling author.
Speaker 1: I could keep going on and on because that's how
Speaker 1: many accolades she has. She's best known for her Twisted series,
Speaker 1: which is being adapted into a Netflix show that you
Speaker 1: and I and the entire world is eagerly waiting for.
Speaker 1: We are ready. Her Twisted series alone, it has over
Speaker 1: one billion views on TikTok and it's considered one of
Speaker 1: the best selling romance books of all time. Anna writes
Speaker 1: new adult and very very steamy contemporary romance with what
Speaker 1: many describe as delicious alpha heroes, some strong heroines, and
Speaker 1: plenty of angst and swoon. That's the perfect recipe, if
Speaker 1: you ask me. There are so many books of her
Speaker 1: to celebrate, her most recent one being King of Envy,
Speaker 1: which is out right now. So let's dive into the
Speaker 1: world of romance and see if today we can get
Speaker 1: Anna to say something that she has never said before. Annahoong,
Speaker 1: it is so good to see you today. How are you.
Speaker 2: I'm good, Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 2: So thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1: I am super psyched. I was telling you you're my
Speaker 1: very first author on this show. Oh my god, my
Speaker 1: very first author. And you know, typically we have a
Speaker 1: lot of movie stars and television stars and singers, but
Speaker 1: when I came across you, I'm like, she is so
Speaker 1: relevant in pop culture history. You are the moment. You
Speaker 1: are more than the moment. I mean, you're here to stay.
Speaker 1: I'm like you just you have to come on my show.
Speaker 1: I think what you've accomplished and built is unbelievable. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much, and I'm super psyched to have you
Speaker 1: so thank you for hanging out.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm so honored be the first author. I'm
Speaker 2: a good company.
Speaker 1: Oh good, good, well, thank you again for being here.
Speaker 1: I have a burning question to kick this off today.
Speaker 1: Have you fully allowed your parents to read all of
Speaker 1: your material yet? Or certain things off limits? What's the status. Oh?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, they're banned. It not allowed. And it's funny because
Speaker 2: in my first bill, like Twisted Love, the dedication is
Speaker 2: actually like to my mom, and I'm like, Mom, if
Speaker 2: you're reading this, love you, but close the book like
Speaker 2: right now, like, do not read this. And yet they
Speaker 2: don't read my books. They do buy them as like support,
Speaker 2: but they don't read them. So they just sit there
Speaker 2: on the shelves and if they have read them, they
Speaker 2: haven't told me they Okay, what do you think.
Speaker 1: The probability is that they did read them and they're
Speaker 1: not telling you.
Speaker 2: You know, I was pretty low. Actually, I would probably
Speaker 2: say like maybe ten percent because they don't actually read
Speaker 2: in English, which I'm like, you know, this is great
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so that's really SWEETID they'll show up and
Speaker 1: buy it.
Speaker 2: They'll show up and buy it. I'm like, Mom, you know,
Speaker 2: I can just give you the book, and she's like, no,
Speaker 2: it's okay, I want to buy it. Oh.
Speaker 1: I love that. Shout out to mom. I love that great.
Speaker 1: I think your story is so fascinating. So twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: obviously the pandemic happened. Yeah, and I believe at the
Speaker 1: time you were working kind of a nine to five
Speaker 1: cubicle job like so many of us do, and you
Speaker 1: shortly after released your first book. Right, so walk me
Speaker 1: through how you went from that traditional nine to five
Speaker 1: to becoming this international best selling author, because I need
Speaker 1: you to fill in the gaps for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a wild ride, and I will say,
Speaker 2: you know, I published my debut in twenty twenty, but
Speaker 2: I have always loved reading and writing growing up as
Speaker 2: a kid, and I kind of stopped a bit after
Speaker 2: I graduated from undergrad just because life got so busy
Speaker 2: I didn't have time to read for leisure anymore. I
Speaker 2: went to grad school, so all of the reading I
Speaker 2: did was, you know, like nonfiction, not as fun stuff.
Speaker 2: But then twenty twenty came and I had a lot
Speaker 2: more free time on my hands. I was a home
Speaker 2: and I really needed a creative outlet, something to give
Speaker 2: me an escape that I couldn't get anywhere else. I
Speaker 2: started writing again, published my debut series that year, and
Speaker 2: then I wrote Twisted Love at the end of twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: I felt that a little franchise, little franchise, I don't know,
Speaker 2: maybe just a little small franchise, and I published that
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, and the rest, as they say,
Speaker 2: is history. Wow.
Speaker 1: Wow, did you always feel like you needed to do this,
Speaker 1: like your your path will lead you exactly to where
Speaker 1: you are even when you were working that job. Did
Speaker 1: you dream of this?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think, you know. I think I did when
Speaker 2: I was a kid. And it's so funny because I
Speaker 2: remember telling my mom I was maybe eight years old,
Speaker 2: and I told her I wanted to be an author.
Speaker 2: And back then, publishing is a very different landscape than
Speaker 2: it is now. And I remember her looking at me
Speaker 2: and when I said I wanted to be an author,
Speaker 2: and she was like, hmm, She's like, maybe do that
Speaker 2: as a hobby and for your job, do something. I'm
Speaker 2: more financially stable, you know, like parents. And so when
Speaker 2: I went to college, I studied international relations, very different
Speaker 2: and I kind of put this aside in my mind
Speaker 2: as a career I could have. But when I started
Speaker 2: writing again in twenty twenty, like I said, the landscape
Speaker 2: had changed. There's so many more opportunities for authors now
Speaker 2: in terms of like marketing and visibility. And once, I
Speaker 2: think once I put out Twisted Love and I saw
Speaker 2: kind of the reaction to it, I was like, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe I could do this as a career. And that
Speaker 2: was when I really focused on kind of building this
Speaker 2: space for myself and preparing to leave my day job.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, that must have been such a pinch me moment,
Speaker 1: like I can actually support myself full time writing and
Speaker 1: doing what I love.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's crazy. I remember when, like that very
Speaker 2: first time, when I started earning more from my books
Speaker 2: than I did for my day job, and I was like, wow,
Speaker 2: like this is actually a thing, because you know, for
Speaker 2: so long, especially, I think sometimes people there's this sense
Speaker 2: in society that feels like creative should be almost struggling sometimes,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like and they shouldn't be
Speaker 2: prospering in a certain way. But when I saw it,
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is totally doable, Like it's not just
Speaker 2: a far off dream that's reserved for the top one
Speaker 2: one one percent of the creative fields, right, And so
Speaker 2: that was very inspiring to me.
Speaker 1: And that twist the Love series, man, it caught on
Speaker 1: like wildfire. What do you think it was about that
Speaker 1: that made literally the entire world fall in love with it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? It was. It was so unexpected, and you know,
Speaker 2: I will say when I wrote Twisted Love. I really
Speaker 2: had no expectations for it because I wrote a series
Speaker 2: before that and it's like fine, but it wasn't. It
Speaker 2: didn't take off the same way, right, So I wrote
Speaker 2: the book basically, I wrote what I wanted to read.
Speaker 2: So I wrote everything that I liked into that book
Speaker 2: and I marketed it. And I do think half of
Speaker 2: it is maybe the content. Like that series is about
Speaker 2: a group of girlfriends that men in college and it
Speaker 2: follows them through their twenties, and I think that is
Speaker 2: my core audience, Like there are a lot of gen Zers,
Speaker 2: people who are in their twenties and thirties that maybe
Speaker 2: resonate with that sort of storyline. But I also happened
Speaker 2: to be publishing that at the same time that book
Speaker 2: talk was taking off, so I think there was a
Speaker 2: lot of synergy there.
Speaker 1: And for everyone wondering what that is, what is book talk?
Speaker 2: So book talk is a community on TikTok where basically
Speaker 2: it's readers like sharing their recommendations, memes, videos all about books,
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of subcommunities. But it's huge and
Speaker 2: it's thriving, and there is wonderful.
Speaker 1: And you somehow got in it right, like That's what
Speaker 1: amazes me. It's how your book, aside from it being brilliant,
Speaker 1: got into this community and then it just was literally
Speaker 1: word of mouth.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, word of mouth. It's always and people ask me,
Speaker 2: you know, I think authors are always trying to look
Speaker 2: for the best marketing strategy, and there's all these tools now,
Speaker 2: but I always tell people, you know, at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, word of mouth is still the most
Speaker 2: powerful thing you can do to market anything, and TikTok
Speaker 2: is basically word of mouth amplified.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is. It's one of I would say,
Speaker 1: one of the most important mediums now for getting your
Speaker 1: your creative in Denver out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, can change.
Speaker 1: You always go at TikTok because you know how to,
Speaker 1: you know what you're doing.
Speaker 2: Thank you. No, you know, it's funny. I was pretty
Speaker 2: resistant to it at first. Realized I was an instant.
Speaker 2: I was on Instagram for years before that, I didn't
Speaker 2: really do video, and when I started publishing, I actually
Speaker 2: wanted to be anonymous. Obviously I'm not anonymous now, but
Speaker 2: back then I was like, I didn't want to show
Speaker 2: my face, and so I was very resistant to TikTok
Speaker 2: as a platform because I was like, I don't want
Speaker 2: to try. I don't want to learn this new platform.
Speaker 2: They're just dancing on there. I don't do dancing. But
Speaker 2: I've heard from like a few authors at the time,
Speaker 2: right before it was taking off, that they're like, you know,
Speaker 2: you can actually do a lot on this platform. There's
Speaker 2: a great community. And me, being like a social media person,
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, I'll just download the app
Speaker 2: and I'll see what it's about. And I actually ended
Speaker 2: up really liking it, Like there was a wonderful community
Speaker 2: of authors and readers and I just got into it,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like you said, it really propelled the Twist
Speaker 1: of Love series into the universe and made it partially
Speaker 1: what it is. You made it what it is, but
Speaker 1: you know, the marketing behind that was just so genius.
Speaker 1: And of course Netflix is adapting into a series. I
Speaker 1: mean casual. Could you ever have imagined?
Speaker 2: Gosh, no, it's so surreal. I think even now sometimes
Speaker 2: when I say it, it's hard sometimes because all these
Speaker 2: things happen and I feel like I don't always get
Speaker 2: time to sit and take in what's happening, you know,
Speaker 2: like it's go, go, go. But when the Netflix stal happened.
Speaker 2: I was like, Wow. Like when I was a kid,
Speaker 2: I used to dream about when I saw those books
Speaker 2: getting adapted to big screens. I would think like, oh,
Speaker 2: I would love for that to happen one day. But
Speaker 2: it wasn't something I ever thought was actually possible, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. It was just kind of like
Speaker 2: a dream. And so now I'm like, you know, it's
Speaker 2: a big, big goal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I feel like the world is talking about
Speaker 1: the casting for it. Oh yeah, do you feel the
Speaker 1: pressure to get that right?
Speaker 2: Yes? I think the casting is super super important, especially
Speaker 2: you know, and I've talked to a lot of the
Speaker 2: people on the team about it, you know, We've had
Speaker 2: a lot of discussions, and for me, especially for a
Speaker 2: romance casting, I'm always like, you know, yes, we do
Speaker 2: want people who look like the characters. Obviously they should
Speaker 2: fit like that. But it is a romance series, and
Speaker 2: I think what is the most important to me is
Speaker 2: that there's a street between the characters, right, Like, that
Speaker 2: is the number one goal for me. And while we
Speaker 2: haven't gotten to the casting part yet, I think I'm
Speaker 2: always keeping an eye out when I you know, watch
Speaker 2: media and see things to see if there's anyone that fits,
Speaker 2: but I think there may also be kind of an
Speaker 2: argument to be made for finding fresh faces as well.
Speaker 1: So you're pretty involved in the adaptation for Netflix, Like
Speaker 1: do you have approvals of casts and all of that.
Speaker 2: No, I don't get ftal approval, Okay, I do obviously,
Speaker 2: like they'll take my they'll take kind of like my
Speaker 2: consultation into account and I can give my ideas and
Speaker 2: it's a very collaborative process. We're still in early days,
Speaker 2: but I do love the team there, and I'm very
Speaker 2: excited for what we can do together.
Speaker 1: I imagine when you have a baby, like this part
Speaker 1: of you is obviously thrilled this is happening, but also like, okay,
Speaker 1: will you handle it with care? And will you make
Speaker 1: it what I know it should be? Like right, it's
Speaker 1: a lot of those emotions, I imagine it is.
Speaker 2: And it's scary, you know, to to kind of give
Speaker 2: your work over to someone else and have them make
Speaker 2: it into something new, because when you adapt something to screen,
Speaker 2: like things will invariably have to change, right in order
Speaker 2: to do this to that medium, and especially my fans
Speaker 2: are so passionate and they are so excited, but they
Speaker 2: also have you know, a lot of ideas about who
Speaker 2: they feel should play, the cast or how things should go.
Speaker 2: So I kind of have to toe that line of
Speaker 2: keeping the story true to the heart of what they are,
Speaker 2: but also recognizing that it does have to change once
Speaker 2: it gets adopted.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that seems easier said than done.
Speaker 2: It is. Now come back to me when.
Speaker 1: We're yeah, no, I feel you, because we even I
Speaker 1: have a creative project and I have to let people
Speaker 1: in or kind of hand something off. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: just handle it.
Speaker 2: I know, handle it. Well, it's good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well Netflix is amazing and I have no
Speaker 1: doubt that they will. But there's so much speculation out there.
Speaker 1: So nobody has been cast yet.
Speaker 2: No one has been casting.
Speaker 1: You're not hiding that out like people think you have
Speaker 1: some information, You're with hell withholding not the case.
Speaker 2: No, there are so many rumors like scrolling around, and
Speaker 2: every couple of months there'll be like a new rumor
Speaker 2: that X hus been cast as why and it goes
Speaker 2: viral and I'm like, and so I continuously tell them,
Speaker 2: I'm like, unless I announce it from my official accounts,
Speaker 2: nothing has been set yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when when is this aiming to be out. Do
Speaker 1: you know that we.
Speaker 2: Don't have a set DAG yet. We're still in the
Speaker 2: development process, but hopefully.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, very interesting. Well, we look forward
Speaker 1: to seeing how all of this unfolds. I'm sure, and
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna make you say, but I'm sure you
Speaker 1: have a couple faces in mind that you are interested in.
Speaker 1: Uh huh, I'm sure. So we'll see what happens. But
Speaker 1: let's talk about this beautiful book right in front of me,
Speaker 1: your newest book, King of Envy. Yes, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I was telling you. I was. I was reading it
Speaker 1: and there were some scenes and words and I was like,
Speaker 1: I need to be alone reading this right now.
Speaker 2: I do not read in public.
Speaker 1: Ooh it is spicy, it is sexy. I love it.
Speaker 1: I love the two main characters. So, in your words,
Speaker 1: what is this book all about?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So, King of Envy is the fifth book in
Speaker 2: My Kings of Sinceri, which is a series of contemporary
Speaker 2: romances that's themed around the Seven Deadly Since and it's
Speaker 2: about Vook and Ayana, who happens to be engaged to
Speaker 2: Book's best friend, but Book has been in love with
Speaker 2: her for a while, so obviously there's a lot of
Speaker 2: like yearning and pining. But what he doesn't know is
Speaker 2: that their engagement is actually an engagement of convenience, So
Speaker 2: they kind of have to navigate that part of the relationship.
Speaker 2: You know, he has to deal with the loyalty to
Speaker 2: his friend versus his feelings for her. Meanwhile, there's kind
Speaker 2: of a side plot where kind of a more dangerous
Speaker 2: part of his past crops up that he has to
Speaker 2: deal with, and Ayana is also trying to like free
Speaker 2: herself from her agency. So all of this comes to
Speaker 2: a head in the climax, and it is a romance,
Speaker 2: but there's a lot of action and suspense as well.
Speaker 1: And what's cool is it can very much be a
Speaker 1: standalone book.
Speaker 2: Yes it can. All of the my series are all
Speaker 2: interconnected stand alone, so while you will see characters pop
Speaker 2: up in each book, they can all be read on
Speaker 2: its own.
Speaker 1: I'm going to read it to you one of my
Speaker 1: favorite things I've ever read in my entire Life's right
Speaker 1: in the beginning. Oh it's nothing that seeming relax everybody
Speaker 1: relax relaxed Cravios PGPG. It's right in the beginning, and
Speaker 1: you're right to all the readers who like their fictional
Speaker 1: men a little unhinged. This one's for you. So that
Speaker 1: begs the question, do you like your men unhinged?
Speaker 2: I do fictional Okay, fictional hing there is a difference.
Speaker 2: I do love my morally gray characters. I think that
Speaker 2: is what I'm known for because that's what the Twisted
Speaker 2: series has a lot. But it's really fun to write
Speaker 2: them because I can step outside the box a little bit.
Speaker 2: Like when I write their characters, I don't have to
Speaker 2: think they have to do things in a certain way
Speaker 2: that's acceptable to society. Like they can just do their
Speaker 2: own thing. And I think we all have that fantasy sometimes,
Speaker 2: you know, where you're like, oh, I wish I could
Speaker 2: just do this, but you can't. So it's really fun.
Speaker 1: I have a confession, and I have played many unhinged
Speaker 1: men on the covers of romance novels myself. It is
Speaker 1: how I started off in the entertainment business. I'm going
Speaker 1: to show you one right now. This is me. Uh huh,
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know, God, twenty years ago.
Speaker 2: Amazing.
Speaker 1: Yes, I was doing a lot of covers playing these
Speaker 1: unhinged characters, which I don't always tell people, but I'm like,
Speaker 1: I have to tell you. You'll appreciate that.
Speaker 2: I appreciate this so much because you know, Harlequin novels
Speaker 2: are how I got my start reading romance.
Speaker 1: Really, this is really especial. It's called in the Argentine's Bed,
Speaker 1: Oh my Argentine's Bed, Argentine's Bed amazing And I'm not Argentinian,
Speaker 1: which might be problematic, but I played one on the book.
Speaker 2: So you know, you know what, you look great.
Speaker 1: Thank you, great, thank you, thank you. I hope you
Speaker 1: have a collection of you, just like they are in storage.
Speaker 1: They are not out, definitely not out. But I so
Speaker 1: I so love that when I read that when I
Speaker 1: opened the book, because you're right, you create a world
Speaker 1: where these men don't have to be perfect and they
Speaker 1: can have all these different layers. I think that's really cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's the best thing, I think, And I
Speaker 2: think that's the best thing about fiction is you can
Speaker 2: explore so many different types of characters, like so many
Speaker 2: different worlds, and you can make them whatever you want
Speaker 2: to be.
Speaker 1: So in this book, what was the most challenging part
Speaker 1: for you to write?
Speaker 2: Oh? You know, I think for me because this part
Speaker 2: does this book does have a stronger suspense subplot than
Speaker 2: any of the books in the previous series. So for me,
Speaker 2: it was hard in the beginning to actually figure out
Speaker 2: how they all tied together. And you know, I was
Speaker 2: sitting on it for like months and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I know kind of the general shape of what it
Speaker 2: looks like, but I can't quite put the pieces together.
Speaker 2: And then finally one day, for books backstory especially, I
Speaker 2: literally just started the computer and I kind of wrote
Speaker 2: a short story, like almost like a biography of like,
Speaker 2: this is what happened in his past, this is where
Speaker 2: it leads to him now. And it was very helpful.
Speaker 2: So I kind of wrote like a mini story before
Speaker 2: the actual story. It helped me flush it out.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Did you do that for everything?
Speaker 2: Or no? I don't just put this one because it
Speaker 2: was so much more intricate, I think than the others.
Speaker 2: But now that I've seen how helpful it is, maybe
Speaker 2: I'll do it for all of my books going forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so cool. Do you have a scene or
Speaker 1: a moment that is one of your favorites in this book?
Speaker 2: Oh? You know what, I actually love. So this may
Speaker 2: be a spoiler for people, but it's not like a
Speaker 2: huge spoiler. So there is this moment where Book gets
Speaker 2: a cat and it's it's pet cat, and it's so
Speaker 2: funny because he's this like big booty kind of scary
Speaker 2: guy and then he kind of gets put in his
Speaker 2: place by this like tiny little kitten. And I think
Speaker 2: it's so fun to write their dynamic, and you know,
Speaker 2: I love cats in general, so I think having showing
Speaker 2: the softer side of him was really fun.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love getting to the mind of such brilliant artists
Speaker 1: and really seeing kind of a where like the ideas
Speaker 1: come from, be what resonates with you. I know. It's
Speaker 1: like when you hear like favorite scene or favorite this,
Speaker 1: it's like picking your favorite pet or kid. But some
Speaker 1: stand out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some stand out, and you know, some are fun
Speaker 2: to write, some are more emotional, and then obviously they're
Speaker 2: the spicy scenes, which are like a whole different area,
Speaker 2: so different kinds of favorites.
Speaker 1: Do you cry when you write emotional scenes?
Speaker 2: I do. I do sometimes, And sometimes when I write
Speaker 2: an emotional scene and I don't cry, I think maybe
Speaker 2: I didn't write this right, really, like, maybe I have
Speaker 2: to go back and rewrite it until I actually cry.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think because once you're writing a book
Speaker 2: and you really get into the flow of it, I
Speaker 2: feel like I am in that world with the character.
Speaker 2: So I feel like I am the character. And so
Speaker 2: when I write certain scenes, like I, if I'm not
Speaker 2: feeling what they're feeling, then I think, you know, like
Speaker 2: something's wrong. So yeah, it's a full on process.
Speaker 1: Are you like a method actor where when you're writing
Speaker 1: you stay in character and can't break character the entire time?
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say not break character, but I do have
Speaker 2: to be in that flow, and once I get pulled
Speaker 2: out of it, it's hard for me to kind of
Speaker 2: keep writing in that way and have to find my
Speaker 2: way back into flow again.
Speaker 1: How in the world do you pump out so many
Speaker 1: books like you have multiple a year.
Speaker 2: I published two a year now, Yeah, I mean, how
Speaker 2: do you do that?
Speaker 1: That seems very ambitious and not normal.
Speaker 2: It is ambitious. It's a lot. Although I mean, I
Speaker 2: will say, because I started off in the indie publishing space. Ye,
Speaker 2: and now you know, I'm traditionally published in my books
Speaker 2: arend stores, but in the indie space, especially for romance authors,
Speaker 2: I am actually probably pretty slow. Like there are some
Speaker 2: authors that will put out a book like every two
Speaker 2: to three months, And for me, yeah, I'm a bit slower,
Speaker 2: but I think it's because I already have a lot
Speaker 2: of those characters in my mind, Like I probably have
Speaker 2: the next two couples that I want to write already
Speaker 2: in my mind. So when I'm writing one book, the
Speaker 2: others are already in the background kind of simmering. So by
Speaker 2: the time I get to their book, I already have
Speaker 2: a very not if not detailed, then at least like
Speaker 2: a general idea of what their story is going to
Speaker 2: be like. And I think once you've written, once you've
Speaker 2: found your voice and you've found your style, it gets
Speaker 2: a little bit easier to kind of write these stories, right.
Speaker 2: And you know, I have my deadlines, and I'm a
Speaker 2: person that I don't like to when I say I'm
Speaker 2: going to put out something, I don't like to not
Speaker 2: do it, so that kind of gives me the motivation.
Speaker 1: So how long is that process typically like for you
Speaker 1: to write an entire book.
Speaker 2: I would say from the idea process to finishing it,
Speaker 2: probably about six months. I see.
Speaker 1: That blows my mind. That blows I mean, you make
Speaker 1: it seem so easy and doable. I mean, that's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I could ever do that.
Speaker 2: It's not I think you don't underjudge yourself. Okay, you know,
Speaker 2: I will say sometimes it's hard because you don't see
Speaker 2: I spend so much of that time thinking and then
Speaker 2: the actual writing I actually do in about like six
Speaker 2: to eight weeks. Wow. Yeah, a lot of it is
Speaker 2: just intellecting.
Speaker 1: And do you have any rituals that you do For
Speaker 1: every single book you write? You listen to a playlist?
Speaker 1: You like candles, I mean, are there must MutS, must
Speaker 1: do as on your list type of thing.
Speaker 2: I do create a playlist for every book that I
Speaker 2: put out, and it when I'm not feeling motivated, I'll
Speaker 2: listen to the playlist because when I write books, or
Speaker 2: even when I read books, I see them as movies
Speaker 2: in my head, and we all know a movie needs
Speaker 2: a good soundtrack. So I'm not feeling motivated, like before
Speaker 2: I write, I will just sit there and I'll just
Speaker 2: listen to the soundtrack and get into the mind space
Speaker 2: of that story. But when I'm actually writing, I can't
Speaker 2: listen to anything with lyrics, so I'll listen to like
Speaker 2: binural beats. I have a brain FM subscription and I'll
Speaker 2: just put that on and I'll just type away. And
Speaker 2: sometimes I'll do it at home. Sometimes I'll go to
Speaker 2: a cafe. But's that's really like my only must when
Speaker 2: it comes to every book.
Speaker 1: Wow, So the playlist that you actually release is the
Speaker 1: one you listen to when you were writing it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, that's pretty cool. I thought maybe it was
Speaker 1: something that you just kind of did to coincide with
Speaker 1: the book or but it's your personal playlist.
Speaker 2: Yeah wow. And I mean I'll pick songs that I
Speaker 2: think will give off the same vibes as the book,
Speaker 2: you know, so it's both for me and it's for
Speaker 2: the readers.
Speaker 1: That's very very actory of you. You know, like a
Speaker 1: lot of actors have their playlist to get into character,
Speaker 1: and before they go on set, if it's a very
Speaker 1: drama scene, they go and listen to something that gets
Speaker 1: them in that that little space right before they would
Speaker 1: start crying and then they start rolling. So that that's
Speaker 1: very very actory review.
Speaker 2: I know that. Yeah, that's fascinating.
Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. I really really like that this genre
Speaker 1: is so beloved. I mean, it's it's it's been around,
Speaker 1: I don't know for how long, it seems like forever,
Speaker 1: and people truly, truly love it. And these books, like
Speaker 1: people have parties waiting for them to come out, and
Speaker 1: there's countdowns and you know, I don't have to tell you.
Speaker 1: So what is it about the romance genre? Yeah, creates
Speaker 1: that feeling for so many people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those genre.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's one of the very few genres, if
Speaker 2: not the only one, that I think really centers women's
Speaker 2: pleasure and women's agency. And I think, you know, there's
Speaker 2: also a part of it that's so broad, right, there's
Speaker 2: so many different types of romances in there that whatever
Speaker 2: you want to read, whether you like romantic suspense or
Speaker 2: you like kind of softer rom coms, you like dark romance, like,
Speaker 2: you'll always find your niche in that space and your community.
Speaker 2: And that's and I also think there is a great
Speaker 2: comfort in reading stories where you know a happily ever
Speaker 2: after is guaranteed and it's you know, you don't know
Speaker 2: what the journey will look like, but at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, you will leave happy. And I think,
Speaker 2: especially in a world that can be so chaotic and heavy,
Speaker 2: there is a lot of comfort in that would you.
Speaker 1: Ever write a book where it doesn't and like that.
Speaker 2: Not if I market it as a romance, uh huh,
Speaker 2: be in another genre, But for now I am sticking
Speaker 2: to the try and truth.
Speaker 1: But that makes sense. People want that feel good feeling
Speaker 1: at the end, and we don't always get that in life, right,
Speaker 1: So it's such a nice escape.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the escape the fantasy of it all.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's amazing that A, you have work
Speaker 1: that resonates with so many people, but you've been able
Speaker 1: to sustain this career and not let the outside world
Speaker 1: or opinions influence er factor what it is you do
Speaker 1: and how you do it. Yeah, which isn't easy, especially
Speaker 1: when you are so big on social media and you
Speaker 1: are on TikTok and fans have opinions and they want
Speaker 1: them to be known. So how have you been able
Speaker 1: to kind of avoid getting sucked into that whole of
Speaker 1: criticism and spiraling and reading all the things. I know,
Speaker 1: there's so much great stuff out there, obviously, but inevitably
Speaker 1: there's something that will come our way that we'll see
Speaker 1: that's kind of like, oh that hurt. Yeah, right, So
Speaker 1: how do you protect yourself with your art and the
Speaker 1: public yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think that's a great question. I think it's
Speaker 2: something that's get easier the more I publish, because I
Speaker 2: think when you have maybe one or two books out,
Speaker 2: the compulsion is to always check, you know, like every
Speaker 2: little thing that someone is writing about you, you have
Speaker 2: to like look it up. I was addicted to good
Speaker 2: Reads at a point, which is not great. Do not
Speaker 2: get addicted to it is terrible. But you know, eventually,
Speaker 2: as you have more books out and as your platform grows,
Speaker 2: it's actually kind of easier to insulate myself a little
Speaker 2: bit because I don't feel quite as I'm attached to
Speaker 2: my books, but I'm not like this is the one
Speaker 2: book that I have and it must be this thing,
Speaker 2: you know. And I will say before I write, now,
Speaker 2: I don't go on social media like I I will
Speaker 2: just go straight to my desk and I will write
Speaker 2: because you never know what you see, Like it doesn't
Speaker 2: even have to be about my books. It could be
Speaker 2: about anything like in the world, and it will just
Speaker 2: send me into a spiral and I can't write for
Speaker 2: the rest of the day, right, And so I take
Speaker 2: that very seriously, that ritual of not doing social media
Speaker 2: in the morning. And also I have to learn now,
Speaker 2: especially that my platform has grown, that while everyone has opinions,
Speaker 2: sometimes they're just their opinions, and I have to write
Speaker 2: my story the way I want to tell it. And
Speaker 2: plus there's no one consensus on what something should be like.
Speaker 2: People will give me ideas, they'll give me opinions, but
Speaker 2: they contradict each other. And I'm like, well, you know
Speaker 2: it's you can always give me your opinion, but at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, I have to do what
Speaker 2: feels true to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I feel like that's something probably you've
Speaker 1: worked on over the years, better and better and better at.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You have to kind of grow a thicker skin,
Speaker 2: you know, and especially in a business where you are
Speaker 2: kind of a public figure, you have to have a
Speaker 2: great support network, I will say, yeah, And you just
Speaker 2: have to learn to know what voices to listen to
Speaker 2: and when to shut out, you know, all of the noise.
Speaker 2: And I do think that it's something that is easier
Speaker 2: once you have grown more into your role.
Speaker 1: Do you think when you have books that are so
Speaker 1: wildly popular and that people really latch onto the story
Speaker 1: so much so that you are getting a Netflix series created,
Speaker 1: do you think it's even more intense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's so interesting to
Speaker 2: me because I do and I've discussed this with some
Speaker 2: of my friends as well. I do think sometimes when
Speaker 2: you reach a certain level of success, there are some
Speaker 2: people that kind of stop seeing you as people and
Speaker 2: they see you kind of as like a commoditor or
Speaker 2: that the things that they say don't really hurt or
Speaker 2: it doesn't really matter because you won't see it, or
Speaker 2: you won't have like the same feelings as maybe people
Speaker 2: they know personally. And so there's a lot of good
Speaker 2: and also like some bad that comes with reaching a
Speaker 2: certain level. Right, But at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: I it's some that just comes with the job and
Speaker 2: you kind of have to deal with it in whatever
Speaker 2: way works best for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we all deal with it, right. I think
Speaker 1: people might look at you and think, oh, there's no
Speaker 1: way you would ever have to deal with something like that,
Speaker 1: but we all do. That's part of life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's true. And I think sometimes people
Speaker 2: don't talk about the cons of success as much as
Speaker 2: they talk about the pros. And I think that is
Speaker 2: especially hard for people, let's say, if they have like
Speaker 2: I don't want to say overnight success. Well, let's say
Speaker 2: they have like a book that really takes off, and
Speaker 2: they're not mentally prepared for some of those cons it
Speaker 2: can be really hard to kind of find your sea legs.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I think it's so cool because you
Speaker 1: clearly give back so much to your community and you're
Speaker 1: so engaged with everybody, which is I think part of
Speaker 1: the magic of your whole brand and why people one
Speaker 1: of the many reasons why people resonate so much and
Speaker 1: so deeply with you. And with that being said, I
Speaker 1: love to have artists like yourself on who pay it forward.
Speaker 1: And I know there are people listening who have a
Speaker 1: draft of something or who want to write something but
Speaker 1: don't think they have it in them or it can
Speaker 1: never happen for them. What advice would you give to
Speaker 1: aspiring authors?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean for me, I say, just get the
Speaker 2: draft done, you know, and I know that, and don't
Speaker 2: try to make it perfect. And I know a lot
Speaker 2: of people, especially the newer authors, I feel like when
Speaker 2: you write that first book and it's something they've always
Speaker 2: dreamed of doing, I think there is a sense that
Speaker 2: they're like, this is the book, Like this has to
Speaker 2: be the most perfect book, like this has to be
Speaker 2: the best seller, the groundbreaker, and if it isn't, then
Speaker 2: I'm a failure, you know what I mean. And that's
Speaker 2: usually not true. Like most of our first books are
Speaker 2: actually not our best book. Then you probably don't want
Speaker 2: it to be your best book because you want to
Speaker 2: be continuously growing and improving as you publish. So I
Speaker 2: always tell them, you know, like for that first book,
Speaker 2: just get that draft done and the magic happens in
Speaker 2: the editing, and then you will just continue to grow
Speaker 2: and improve, Like, don't let the need for perfection hold
Speaker 2: you back from completing something.
Speaker 1: Oh, don't let the need for perfection hold you back
Speaker 1: from completing something. I might get that tattooed on my body.
Speaker 1: I love that quote. That is so good. Wait, well
Speaker 1: it's all I was gonna say, can I write that?
Speaker 1: But now it's on my show, so I don't need
Speaker 1: to write that down. But I really like that. That
Speaker 1: is amazing, all right. I couldn't have you on and
Speaker 1: not ask some fan questions. Okay, I'm not responsible for these, Okay,
Speaker 1: but these are the top five fan questions that I
Speaker 1: would I was repeatedly seeing in my inbox when I
Speaker 1: announced you as my guests, Number one being will there
Speaker 1: be another Twisted Love book maybe years later, checking in
Speaker 1: on where the characters all are.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't want to promise anything. I won't say no,
Speaker 2: Like if I do, it will probably be some sort
Speaker 2: of epilogue novel where we kind of have all the characters.
Speaker 2: It won't be like a romance with one couple. So
Speaker 2: for now we'll say maybe.
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe we'll take. Maybe, we'll take maybe. Is there
Speaker 1: a female main character that you would be best friends with,
Speaker 1: like in a heartbeat, if you can only pick one?
Speaker 2: Oh? Man, I think this is really hard because I
Speaker 2: love all the girls in different ways. I will say,
Speaker 2: I think for me because I am such an introvert
Speaker 2: in my real life, I do think sometimes it would
Speaker 2: be really nice to have someone like Jewels from Twisted
Speaker 2: Hate as like a foil, because she is obviously an extrovert,
Speaker 2: and if we go out, I need someone like that
Speaker 2: to actually interact with other people because otherwise I'll just
Speaker 2: like sit at the table and just hang out.
Speaker 1: Okay, you need a good like wing woman, Yeah, like
Speaker 1: a good wing woman. I support that. I support that. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: is there a character that you were thinking about giving
Speaker 1: their own book too.
Speaker 2: Oh that I didn't end up giving a book too.
Speaker 2: And I know I'm going to get so many messages
Speaker 2: about this, But there was a point where I almost
Speaker 2: wrote a book for Andreas, who is a side character
Speaker 2: in Twisted Games. He is the main character Bridget's cousin,
Speaker 2: and he kind of starts off like you don't really
Speaker 2: like him, but then by the end he redeems himself
Speaker 2: and I almost wrote a story for him, but then
Speaker 2: I ended up not doing it.
Speaker 1: Is there hope for that or now?
Speaker 2: Probably not? Okay, I decided to scrape that idea.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're a little busy and booked right now.
Speaker 1: It's okay. It's sorry, you have enough going on, all right?
Speaker 1: Two more. You're surviving this pretty well. Okay, this is
Speaker 1: a hard one. Oh gosh, your top two favorite book boyfriends?
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, is this from my book? Wow?
Speaker 1: Your books?
Speaker 2: They can't make me choose like that. That's not okay,
Speaker 2: I will say, Okay. I tend to have a recency
Speaker 2: bias when it comes to things like this, Like right
Speaker 2: after I write a book, that couple tends to be
Speaker 2: my favorite. So I do love book a lot. He
Speaker 2: is also exactly my fictional type, like that kind of booty,
Speaker 2: silent type. So I love him, and you know, I
Speaker 2: think it's hard to say this without mentioning I think
Speaker 2: it's hard to say this without mentioning Alex because he
Speaker 2: is the one that started everything for me. You know,
Speaker 2: he was the hero and Twisted Love, and that was
Speaker 2: the book that kind of changed my life. So I
Speaker 2: have very fond feelings toward that couple for a lot
Speaker 2: of reasons. But I love all the others as well.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a good that's a good answer. We'll take it.
Speaker 1: And final questions kind of like two in one, so
Speaker 1: I'm sorry about it, but here we go. Would you
Speaker 1: ever consider a Mafia series?
Speaker 2: I knew this was going to come. Never say never again.
Speaker 2: I will say I had a lot of fun writing
Speaker 2: the suspense in this book, so maybe, but I don't
Speaker 2: have any plans to do that by this time.
Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough, fair enough, And then kind of similar
Speaker 1: this came up quite a bit. Would you ever write
Speaker 1: a male on mail romance?
Speaker 2: Oh? Like I again, never say never. I am open to,
Speaker 2: you know, writing anything, but I think at this time
Speaker 2: I have my next couple of years books.
Speaker 1: Okay, under contract you survived the fan questions, how do
Speaker 1: you feel?
Speaker 2: I feel pretty good. Good you for not you know,
Speaker 2: just throwing out of left field.
Speaker 1: You did good, you did good. Yenah. This, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: this has been such a pleasure. I love I love
Speaker 1: celebrating people like you who contribute so much to people's lives.
Speaker 1: And I don't say that flippantly. I truly mean that.
Speaker 1: I think when people read these books, it's such an
Speaker 1: important escape for them, no matter what they're going through
Speaker 1: in their lives. I mean I saw people who have
Speaker 1: sick family members, who just lost the spouse, who have said,
Speaker 1: like your books, heal them and help them. And I
Speaker 1: think it's such a beautiful gift you give to the
Speaker 1: world with your writing and with all of this. So
Speaker 1: it's been so much fun getting to know you a
Speaker 1: little bit and celebrate the work. And as we wrap up,
Speaker 1: the name of the show is called I have never
Speaker 1: said this before, Yes, And it was born because I
Speaker 1: cover a lot of red carpet premieres and junkets and
Speaker 1: you get three minutes with you know, the star of
Speaker 1: the movie, and you just don't always have time for
Speaker 1: real conversation. It's very SoundBite based and very quick, and
Speaker 1: I sometimes see this yearning for them to want to
Speaker 1: say something else and it's like, got to go on
Speaker 1: to the next. So it was born for giving space
Speaker 1: for people to talk about something that matter to them. So,
Speaker 1: with all of that being said, is there anything you
Speaker 1: can think of today that you've never said before that
Speaker 1: you want to share?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And I will say this is something that came
Speaker 2: to mind because I saw this person recently and it
Speaker 2: reminded me of what she told me, and it's that
Speaker 2: I feel like I have never really been fondly vulnerable
Speaker 2: with anyone in my life ever, Like I think I've
Speaker 2: only ever given maybe a total of eighty percent of
Speaker 2: myself to someone, which is interesting because I write romance,
Speaker 2: which is so much about vulnerability and opening yourself up.
Speaker 2: And I didn't even realize that until this friend that
Speaker 2: I saw recently. She told me one day, like years ago.
Speaker 2: She's like, you know, Anna, we have been friends for
Speaker 2: like almost a decade and sometimes I feel like I
Speaker 2: don't really know you well. She's like, You're so mysterious,
Speaker 2: and she was kind of joking about it. But there
Speaker 2: is some truth in that and probably something that I
Speaker 2: need to unpack a little bit, but I you know,
Speaker 2: as someone who deals in this space with all the
Speaker 2: romance and vulnerability, it was interesting for me to kind
Speaker 2: of get that revelation. And I've never told anyone that
Speaker 2: before because I feel kind of like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I feel like maybe I'll get judged for it. But
Speaker 2: this feels like a safe space.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's very safe, and thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1: I think it's very real, right. I think for whatever
Speaker 1: the reason, maybe personally people like to protect themselves and
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a shield, and that's something
Speaker 1: that isn't always easy to admit, I imagine, right, And
Speaker 1: the fact that you know that, yeah, and you were
Speaker 1: kind of talking about it with a friend, which is
Speaker 1: maybe uncomfortable at first. Yeah, then you're like, oh, okay, no,
Speaker 1: I want to figure out why it is that way
Speaker 1: and maybe get that eighty percent to eighty eight percent, yeah,
Speaker 1: ninety five percent, and eventually really give your all vulnerabile,
Speaker 1: all your vulnerabilities to somebody, which is scary, I know,
Speaker 1: I know, but I think that's really cool, and maybe
Speaker 1: that's also why you're such a brilliant writer.
Speaker 2: Right, I pour all my feelings into the buddy you.
Speaker 1: Do they say some of the best actors are kind
Speaker 1: of emotionally turned off and then they go into their
Speaker 1: work and it's all there. So you know, maybe it's
Speaker 1: the same with that little piece of vulnerability for you.
Speaker 1: But I'm excited to talk down the line and have
Speaker 1: you come back and say I'm at ninety five percent.
Speaker 2: Now we'll just track my progress.
Speaker 1: Yeah, podcast, I'm going to make a little notesapp on
Speaker 1: my phone with your vulnerability levels throughout the years, so
Speaker 1: we're gonna stay in touch on that.
Speaker 2: Anna.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. You are a joy and please
Speaker 1: come back anytime, and I am always going to be
Speaker 1: cheering you on and rooting for you. I think you're fantastic.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. It is so much fun.
Speaker 1: Thank you be well. I've Never Said This Before is
Speaker 1: hosted by Me Tommy di Dario. This podcast is executive
Speaker 1: produced by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio and by Me Tommy,
Speaker 1: with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've Never Said This Before
Speaker 1: is part of the Elvis Duran podcast network on iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 1: For more, rate review and subscribe to our show and
Speaker 1: if you like this episode, tell your friends. Until next time,
Speaker 1: I'm Tommy de Dario,