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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to favor production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we're

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Speaker 1: talking about the Chronicles of Narnia. Yes, it's time for

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Speaker 1: a very Christmas ee addition of fictional foods. Because until

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Speaker 1: you suggest this, I totally forgot that Christmas does play

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Speaker 1: a big role in The Lion, the Witch, and Wardrobe specifically. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: because because of circumstances, evil plotting circumstances, um when when

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Speaker 1: when the when you catch up with the events of

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Speaker 1: Narnia in that first book, Um, a witch has made

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Speaker 1: it so that it is always winter and never Christmas. Terrible,

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Speaker 1: just terrible, right, the worst, the worst. I went through

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Speaker 1: a very very brief but very intense Chronicles of Narnia period.

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Speaker 1: I wrote a fan fiction. It was and for everybody

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Speaker 1: who's written in asking for my fan fiction, thank you one.

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Speaker 1: I'm flattered too. I'm ashamed to say this, but I

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Speaker 1: was ashamed and deleted all of my fan fiction. Uh

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Speaker 1: so they don't exist anymore? Oh my goodness. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: wish I could find it, like I can't find any record.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure they would be really funny to me. Now

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Speaker 1: it would probably be very charming. I think they would

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Speaker 1: be cute to read. Yeah, the ones I'm writing now,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'll get the courage to host, but probably not.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, my Chronicles of Narnia fan fiction, which was

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Speaker 1: a severe angst thing because that's what I always did,

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Speaker 1: is done. Dang. Yeah yeah, lost of time. It's since

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Speaker 1: then because that was probably high school. It was like

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Speaker 1: when the movies were coming out. Okay, okay, like I'd

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Speaker 1: read the books and already, but when the movies came out,

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Speaker 1: I just went through this really intense thing. Um. But

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Speaker 1: since then, I don't think I've read or rewatched them.

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Speaker 1: So when I was doing the research for this, I

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Speaker 1: was surprised at how much I remember. Um. Certainly there

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Speaker 1: were things like the Christmas thing that I had forgotten,

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Speaker 1: but like it all came back to me when I

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Speaker 1: was researching. Um. And just by the way, if you're

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Speaker 1: an adult and you're looking for something to definitely disturb you,

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Speaker 1: I'll say definitely. I wrote probably here about I think

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Speaker 1: definitely I recommend Neo Gaiman's The Problem with Susan. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: really really excellent peace um exploring, uh and we'll we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about it a little bit some of the perhaps

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Speaker 1: not so kind to ladies, uh themes that occur within

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Speaker 1: these books. UM. And I that that aside. Um, I

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Speaker 1: I love that this was your your your high school,

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Speaker 1: that you were deeply into it in high school. I

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Speaker 1: went through my deeply into Narnia when I was maybe seven. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: like I didn't know what fan fiction was. We had

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Speaker 1: we had like Prodigy at the time, y'ally it was

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Speaker 1: an internet uh connective um program. Yeah, that connective program,

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Speaker 1: I see, yes, or such as the internet was at

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Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, yeah, there. I didn't know anything about

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Speaker 1: fan fiction then. UM. But I was so into the

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Speaker 1: Chronicles of Narnia from the ages of maybe like yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe like six or seven, two, maybe like twelve or thirteen,

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Speaker 1: I want to say, like to the point that, like

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Speaker 1: I think I reread the books like at least once

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Speaker 1: a year, and I would just like read like one

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Speaker 1: of them over and over and over again, because that's

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Speaker 1: the thing that I did when I was a kid. Um,

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Speaker 1: partially because I was, like like I was, I was

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Speaker 1: so into into language and like story building and um,

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Speaker 1: and just really wanted to take things apart and see

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Speaker 1: why they made me feel things and how um, and

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Speaker 1: how those little linguistic turns worked to to make like

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Speaker 1: like funny things funny or dramatic things dramatic. And so

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Speaker 1: I had these very favorite books that I would just

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Speaker 1: go through like that. UM. And I was also really

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Speaker 1: into there was like an animated movie that had been out,

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Speaker 1: and UM, I think I might have had the line

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Speaker 1: which wardrobe like on audio book or something because I

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Speaker 1: as I was, I reread maybe like four of the books,

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Speaker 1: like I don't know, like today, uh and uh. And

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Speaker 1: it was funny to me how much of it was

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Speaker 1: still in my ear, Like how many of the lines

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Speaker 1: that had been taken directly from the book were still

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Speaker 1: in my ear um from a particular performer um of

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Speaker 1: those lines. So yeah, weird how stuff like that sticks

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Speaker 1: with you. I'm like, I can't remember my own phone

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Speaker 1: number sometimes time since that because I've got this entire

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Speaker 1: speech from as Land in my head. That's great, That's

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Speaker 1: just great. Yeah, yeah, I mean the language and is

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Speaker 1: certainly a lot of it's really memorable. And I I

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Speaker 1: did the same thing when I was a kid too,

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Speaker 1: although I did it and I still do this where

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Speaker 1: I'll consume something over and over again because I live

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Speaker 1: in fear of ridiculous fear that one day it will

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Speaker 1: be gone. You have to rely on my memory alone.

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Speaker 1: So I yeah, that's a very like apocalyptic like I

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Speaker 1: take on storytelling. I like it. I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: like that Twilight Zone episode, you know, like I had

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Speaker 1: more time. It's really stuck with you. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: what if I can't watch Star Wars, I must watch

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Speaker 1: it five hundred times and then it will be in

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Speaker 1: my head. Um. Yeah, well, at this point, I fully

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Speaker 1: believe in you to like perform the entirety of awards,

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Speaker 1: so I can the original trilogy. Uh gosh, the play

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Speaker 1: is forthcoming. Also forthcoming are Alice in Wonderland Wall He

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Speaker 1: used Alice in Wonderland episode We will get to it,

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Speaker 1: will get to it. Yes, yes, but today we're talking

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Speaker 1: about Narnia, so let's get to our question. Yes, well,

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Speaker 1: Chronicles of Narnia. What is it? Uh? Well, well, um uh.

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Speaker 1: Narnia is a fictional land first written about in the

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Speaker 1: children's novel series The Chronicles of Narnia by C. S. Lewis.

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Speaker 1: There are seven books in the series, and they tell

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Speaker 1: the tale of Narnia from the very beginning to the

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Speaker 1: very end, though out of order if you read them

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Speaker 1: in the order that they were published, which you should.

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Speaker 1: People on the internet still argue about this, and I

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Speaker 1: think C. S. Lewis disagreed with me, but I disagree

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Speaker 1: with him there, so there, I'll back you up on this.

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Speaker 1: Who likes the story that starts at the beginning? Come on, ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: You don't have any context for the important things that

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Speaker 1: are happening unless you read it in the order that

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Speaker 1: they were published. I yes, I did read them. I

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Speaker 1: read I yeah, I read them quote out of order. Ah,

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Speaker 1: but then I read them a lot, so it just

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Speaker 1: all got mixed together. Well well, um, those books. Those

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Speaker 1: books are um, The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe,

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Speaker 1: Prince Caspian, The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, The Silver Chair,

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Speaker 1: The Horse and His Boy, The Magician's Nephew, and The

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Speaker 1: Last Battle. They were published starting in nineteen fifty um,

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Speaker 1: running through nineteen fifty six, so so very quickly. Um.

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Speaker 1: Although they are they are pretty short. Their their their

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Speaker 1: kids books are only a couple hundred pages each. Um.

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Speaker 1: And yeah. They've been adapted since then into radio plays

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Speaker 1: of the aforementioned animated film. In nineteen seventy nine, a

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Speaker 1: live action television series on BBC and eighty eight UM

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Speaker 1: and a series of live action films starting in two

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Speaker 1: thousand five. UH. Meanwhile, their author C. S. Lewis was

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Speaker 1: born in eight Clive Staples Lewis in Belfast, Ireland, UM,

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Speaker 1: but lived most of his life in Oxford, England, where

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Speaker 1: he studied and taught. He was a soldier in the

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Speaker 1: British Army in World War One. UM was friends with

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Speaker 1: a contemporaries like J. R. R. Tolkien UM and a

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Speaker 1: fellow member of the Inklings literary circle there in Oxford. UM.

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Speaker 1: He was influenced as a young man by Norse mythology

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Speaker 1: and like Wagner's operas UM and would go on to

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Speaker 1: study a lot of Medieval and Renaissance literature as an adult.

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Speaker 1: UM and you can see those influences on his storytelling

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Speaker 1: and also in the foods that he portrays in these

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Speaker 1: stories which do which do take on and in the

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Speaker 1: case of Narnia, UM some some elements of like a

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Speaker 1: Thurian legend. And although although Louis lost his faith for

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Speaker 1: a decade or so in his youth, he was very

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Speaker 1: dedicated to Christianity throughout his adult life, and he wrote

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Speaker 1: and spoke extensively about spirituality and faith and study and

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Speaker 1: truth and the nature of good and evil and how

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Speaker 1: we humans relate to it. Um and uh. And there

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Speaker 1: are very there are a lot of very overt elements

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Speaker 1: um of of Christian mythology and and thought and discussion

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Speaker 1: that happened within the Chronicles of Narnia. But C. S.

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Speaker 1: Lewis wants you to know that it is not an allegory.

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Speaker 1: He would get actually pretty salty with interviewers about this.

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Speaker 1: He would be like, um, do you know what allegory means?

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Speaker 1: Because I come out and say it. I say that

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Speaker 1: Aslanta is Jesus. It's not an allegory anymore. That's just

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Speaker 1: the thought experiment. Comma heck and smarto like uh, which

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Speaker 1: is which is kind of my favorite. Um so yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a fable, not an allegory. Um

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Speaker 1: and uh. But hey, this is a food show. Uh

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Speaker 1: and and like like in many fantasy series, because these

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Speaker 1: are a fantasy series. Um uh. The food that is

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Speaker 1: that is portrayed in them is a is a connection

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Speaker 1: point to reality, like a way of helping ground the reader. Um.

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Speaker 1: And also a way of coding in some of those

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Speaker 1: metaphors and like emotional tent poles into the stories, right, um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and apparently C. S. Lewis's mother frequently turned to Mrs

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Speaker 1: Isabella Beaton's The Book of Household Management, past episode on

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Speaker 1: her for that. Yeah. So he grew up before mass

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Speaker 1: produced food, when the butcher and milkman would deliver food

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Speaker 1: to your door, when many people still grew their own vegetables,

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Speaker 1: and many took pride in their product and sharing it

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Speaker 1: with others. And these are things that we see reflected

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Speaker 1: in these stories, and also the flip side of that

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Speaker 1: of what happens when you don't respect food and what's

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Speaker 1: behind it and the people behind it. Um. Different realms

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Speaker 1: have different cuisines and specialized in different things. And several

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Speaker 1: of the talking animals that are in these books, because

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Speaker 1: there are talking animals, there are regular animals, and then

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Speaker 1: there are animals that talk. There's both, there is both. Um.

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Speaker 1: Many of the talking animals we know at least eat

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Speaker 1: a diet of foods associated with those animals, like bears

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Speaker 1: eating honey, squirrels eating nuts, things like that. Yeah, treat treat,

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Speaker 1: people eat all kinds of different soils. Um, that no

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Speaker 1: matter how delicious they look, humans shouldn't probably eat them.

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Speaker 1: Um centaurs eat just a lot, just a lot. I

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Speaker 1: mean like they have a man's stomach and they have

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Speaker 1: a horse stomach and both want to eat, and so

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Speaker 1: therefore it is very serious to invite one over for

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Speaker 1: the weekend. Oh jeez, I can imagine, right right um

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Speaker 1: and yeah, there's there's this huge emphasis on I'm not

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Speaker 1: just um, the eating of but the preparation of food

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Speaker 1: and and of meals um uh and and and and

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Speaker 1: of meals being being pleasant and communal and and um

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Speaker 1: humanizing and uplifting um and like like the first thing

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Speaker 1: that as Land asks the very first king of Narnia,

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Speaker 1: whose name is Frank, Who's who's a cabby um king? Frank? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Because Frank is like, well, like can I really be king?

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Speaker 1: Like I'm not very like edge in marcated, And as

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Speaker 1: Land is like, well, can you use a spade and

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Speaker 1: a plow to raise food out of the earth? Um?

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Speaker 1: And And Frank is like, yeah, probably I was sort

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Speaker 1: of raised in that. I guess I can. I'm paraphrasing.

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Speaker 1: He was a lot more cockney and I'm not up

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Speaker 1: to the accent today. Yeah. Um, it's uh, it's It's

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Speaker 1: also important to recognize, um the influence of the world

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Speaker 1: wars on these books because like the the first book

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Speaker 1: is set um uh starting in London and moving out

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Speaker 1: to the British countryside, um during the Blitz during World

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Speaker 1: War Two. UM. So the kids who are escaping the

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Speaker 1: Blitz are are probably well familiar with rationing. And I

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Speaker 1: think that that really helps put in perspective UM some

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Speaker 1: of especially that first book's emphasis on um on these

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Speaker 1: simple pleasures on on you know, just like how heck

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Speaker 1: and good candy can be like, oh my gosh, candy. Um.

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Speaker 1: But uh yeah, there's there's also just like a lot

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Speaker 1: of like like re rereading them now. And I we

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Speaker 1: rewatched the line The Witch and the Wardrobe live action

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Speaker 1: film last Christmas, I think me and my roommates, and

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Speaker 1: we were all kind of like, oh, there's a whole war,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole battle in here. They're just this is

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Speaker 1: a children's movie and they are just smacking swords at

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Speaker 1: each other. And that is a lot I was I

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Speaker 1: had forgotten um so so that happens um and and

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Speaker 1: and as I was going through the like four books

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Speaker 1: that I read today, like there's a battle, there's a

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Speaker 1: war in all of them. Yeah, it's it's like kind

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Speaker 1: of upsettingly violent. Um but I guess also I was

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Speaker 1: struck by how like honest it is about fighting being

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Speaker 1: scary and unpleasant, um, which I feel like, I feel

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Speaker 1: like it's a is a is a thing that you

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Speaker 1: don't always get from some of these stories. Um. Also,

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Speaker 1: they make a big thing out of cleaning your sword

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Speaker 1: as is, like Peter, clean your sword after you stab

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Speaker 1: someone with it. Mm hmm. That is something that I've

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Speaker 1: taken with me this whole time. It has never left

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Speaker 1: and so whenever not that I have to clean my

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Speaker 1: sword to ask some questions, jeez, no, just whatever. In

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Speaker 1: a movie, like someone goes out stabby stabby and then

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Speaker 1: immediately sheaths their sword without doing anything. I'm like, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna rust. Yeah, you don't want that. You don't want that.

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Speaker 1: That was expensive. I'm glad that's what you took, Cary

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Speaker 1: that from these books. You know, had to be something,

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Speaker 1: had to be something, had to be something and food.

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Speaker 1: It does serve all kinds of purposes in these books.

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Speaker 1: There's temptation in the form of the Magic Apple and

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Speaker 1: the Turkish delights. There's fortification, a source of camaraderie, a

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Speaker 1: source of comfort, a source of spirituality, a source of healing.

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Speaker 1: Um from the betrayal necessitated by candy or I guess

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Speaker 1: uh by the temptation the candy uh provided. It was

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Speaker 1: a very tempting candy. Um to the food that connects

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Speaker 1: the children in Arnia to their home. T frequently appears

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Speaker 1: and itself confund action as a way to warm up

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Speaker 1: from the cold, to form connections with others, or to

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Speaker 1: show others that you care after the devastating betrayal of

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Speaker 1: their brother, the other three pevencied children, and so this

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Speaker 1: is well, the plot can get complicated. But in the

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Speaker 1: Lion the Witch in the ore ji Um, they spend

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Speaker 1: a cold, dark and lonely winter morning that only brightens

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Speaker 1: with the arrival of Father Christmas and his pot of

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Speaker 1: warm tea. And also like weapons and stuff. But the

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Speaker 1: tea you know, yeah, yeah, I don't forget. Definitely it

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Speaker 1: was piping hot tea plus weapons, yes, yeah, the first

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Speaker 1: weapons later, the first weapons later, very English, yes, um uh. Similarly, similarly, um,

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Speaker 1: a group of Narnians um in that book that the

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Speaker 1: White Witch catches at breakfast are celebrating with a plum pudding.

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Speaker 1: Very very English. Yes, and speaking of there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of British things like that. To my these things,

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Speaker 1: to my American mind, growing up reading a lot of

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Speaker 1: British fiction, feel fantastical or quaint. I know they're not.

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Speaker 1: To me, they feel that way like meat past ease

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Speaker 1: or pastis and teas and cheese and figs, Turkish delight, quote,

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Speaker 1: cakes of oaten meal snipe. Not that those things aren't

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Speaker 1: in the US, but to me they were fairly rare

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Speaker 1: or just kind of sounded like, huh, what is that

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Speaker 1: outside of Kraft American cheese? Uh somewhere what what? No? No,

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying like I knew cheese, but I believe

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Speaker 1: it or not. Growing up as a kid, I really

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Speaker 1: only had that kind of cheese. So like hearing about

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Speaker 1: like this music like a wheel of cheese. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um,

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Speaker 1: And there's an emphasis on breakfast on afternoon tea. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there's um there's a character in one of the

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Speaker 1: later books. Uh catchphrase is crabs and crumpets. Well I

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Speaker 1: love that, I know, right? Um? Great? Um and yeah

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Speaker 1: and yeah. Narnia is also very idyllic even even the

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Speaker 1: streams there perhaps only if you're hanging out with aslin.

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Speaker 1: Are are the best cleanest water, the coldest, best drink

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Speaker 1: you've ever had? Yeah. Um, As far as numbers, there's

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Speaker 1: one that we want to include, because there is at

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Speaker 1: least one cookbook, the Official Narnia Cookbook, Foods from C. S.

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Speaker 1: Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia by Douglas Grisham and illustrated by

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Speaker 1: Pauline Beans. Um. And it was split up into basic

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Speaker 1: meal categories, so breakfast, lunch, afternoon to eat, dinner, dessert,

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Speaker 1: and drinks. And it starts with the safety forward. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like most it's mostly basic safety tistrict kids. But still

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Speaker 1: I was like, wow, kitchen is dangerous. There should be

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Speaker 1: more safeties. Um. And in the spirit of Narnia, other

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Speaker 1: sps use modern appliances as sparingly as possible, so they're

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Speaker 1: they're much more like, don't use that fancy modern tech.

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Speaker 1: Mix it with your hands, with your hands, with your hands.

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Speaker 1: But we did want to spotlight some specific food and

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Speaker 1: drink things. Yes, yes we did, but first we wanted

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Speaker 1: to take a quick break for a word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: And we're back, thank you sponsored. Yes, thank you, and

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Speaker 1: we're back with the Turkish Delight. Yep. Yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: the first thing I think of when I would think

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Speaker 1: of food and Chronicles of Narnia, and I would imagine

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Speaker 1: it's the same for a lot of people listening. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: future episode, but you're if you're not aware. A Turkish

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Speaker 1: delight is usually a starch and powdered sugar confection, typically

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Speaker 1: flavored with rose water or sometimes lemon, sometimes both. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It can come in a lot of different formats. It

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Speaker 1: can be a little bit more like marshmallowy, or it

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Speaker 1: can be a little bit more jelly like um. I

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Speaker 1: personally prefer the jelly rose water ones. But um. But

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Speaker 1: it can also have like nuts in there, or or

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Speaker 1: um or bits of dried fruit. Lots of different formats. Yes, yes, um.

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Speaker 1: And it is the sweet that the White Witch if

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Speaker 1: if you haven't, if you somehow don't know these books

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Speaker 1: of this story and you haven't deduced it yet, just

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Speaker 1: the villain the White Witch offers to Ebben pivancy that

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Speaker 1: facilitates his betrayal of his siblings and of Narnia. Um,

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Speaker 1: it was his favorite, so I couldn't really resist. As

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Speaker 1: she gives him an entire box, along with a quote

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Speaker 1: hot drink uh from the book. It was something he

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Speaker 1: had never tasted before, very sweet and foamy and creamy.

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Speaker 1: And these both seemed as though they had an addictive quality,

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Speaker 1: and Edmund often felt sick after eating them. Yeah, they were.

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Speaker 1: They were enchanted. So that quote anyone who had once

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Speaker 1: tasted it would want more and more of it, and

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Speaker 1: would even if they were allowed, go on eating it

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Speaker 1: till they killed themselves. Book for children, Book the Children.

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Speaker 1: Um and and yeah and yeah he he you know,

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Speaker 1: like as one does when they eat several pounds of candy,

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Speaker 1: which he does eat. She gives him this box that

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Speaker 1: contains several pounds of this candy, and he just eats it.

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Speaker 1: Um because it's enchanted. Uh he he still wants more

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Speaker 1: of and he's still thinking about it. Later um and

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Speaker 1: uh later when when they run into um, a pair

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Speaker 1: of friendly beavers. Um like you do like you do? Um,

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Speaker 1: Mr beaver says, uh, he had the look of one

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Speaker 1: who has been with the Witch and eat and her food.

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Speaker 1: You can always tell them if you've lived long in

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Speaker 1: Narnia something about their eyes. Y Uh. Well, Later, when

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Speaker 1: Edmund is at the White Witches Castle, despite her prom

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Speaker 1: says of Turkish delight, all he gets is still bread

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Speaker 1: and water. Yes, yep, yep, she had already lured him in.

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Speaker 1: I didn't need to waste the magic on him again,

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Speaker 1: he was already there. Um but so but so Take

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Speaker 1: this um in contrast to um, this this uh, this

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Speaker 1: kind of empty calorie uh sweet um that Edmund gets.

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Speaker 1: Take that on contrast with the first meal that Lucy

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Speaker 1: eats in Narnia, because she runs into a very kind

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Speaker 1: fawn by the name of Mr Tumnus um and and

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Speaker 1: he serves her this, this humble but but delicious tea

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Speaker 1: of of a nice brown egg lightly boiled for each

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Speaker 1: of them, um, and then sardines on toast, and then

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Speaker 1: buttered toast, and then toast with honey, and then a

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Speaker 1: sugar topped cake. Um. Just just so just so like

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Speaker 1: plain but nice sounding. Uh. At least you got some

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Speaker 1: protein in there. Always eats some protein, you know. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then again, when when all the kids uh finally

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Speaker 1: get into Narnia and catch up with the aforementioned beavers, Uh,

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Speaker 1: they have this this wonderful sounding dinner. There's a pan

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Speaker 1: fried trout and boiled potatoes with as much butter as

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Speaker 1: they wanted. Um, and bread and a huge jug of

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Speaker 1: beer from Mr Beaver milk for the kids. Um and uh,

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Speaker 1: if if you'll, if you'll indulge me in in quoting again, Um,

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Speaker 1: the book says um, and all the children thought, and

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Speaker 1: I agree with them that there's nothing to beat good

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Speaker 1: freshwater fish if you eat it when it's been alive

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Speaker 1: half an hour ago and has come out of the

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Speaker 1: pan half a minute ago. Mm hmm. Yeah. They just

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Speaker 1: had so simple but so delicious these things, right yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then there's a Mr. And Mrs Beaver's quote, great

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Speaker 1: and glorious sticky marmalade, roll, steaming hot. I guess it's

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Speaker 1: Mrs Beavers. Let me give for where credit is probably

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Speaker 1: h This was something she was really proud of making

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Speaker 1: and to share with people. She wanted to share it

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Speaker 1: with people. Uh. And this is a big scene when

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Speaker 1: all the children are in Narnia. Um, it's cold, and

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Speaker 1: the Beavers take them in and tell them all about

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Speaker 1: the evil besieging Narnia. And these roles were a fortifying

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Speaker 1: comforting thing during that conversation and like during that cold Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they have been hungry and lost and they didn't know

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Speaker 1: what they were going to do. Where who was a

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Speaker 1: friend or a foe? Um? And and they get brought

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Speaker 1: into the home that the beavers have made within the dam,

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Speaker 1: and like the book mentions that the beavers have like

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Speaker 1: onions and hams hanging up in there, like as this

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Speaker 1: way of explaining that it's that it's plain but comfortable um.

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Speaker 1: And then a few pages later, even as they are

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Speaker 1: fleeing um for their lives, Mrs Beaver makes sure to

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Speaker 1: pack a parcel of food for each of them um

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Speaker 1: and later remarks, what a mercy I thought of bringing

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Speaker 1: the bread knife? Not for stabby purposes? Is Jesus for bread?

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Speaker 1: It's for bread, It's one of other Christmas shows up,

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Speaker 1: there's bread. Uh. But notably Edmund cannot enjoy any of

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Speaker 1: this simple, beautiful feast because he's thinking all the while

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Speaker 1: about that Turkish delight um. And the book says, there's

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Speaker 1: nothing that spoils the taste of good ordinary food half

401
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: so much as the memory of bad magic food sounds about,

402
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 1: you know, like a commentary on mass production and that

403
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. You know, I wouldn't be I wouldn't

404
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: be surprised um. And related to that actually a category

405
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: of food within the books is hunt your own food. Um.

406
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Speaker 1: I think I think at least once per book. Um,

407
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Speaker 1: the heroes wind up fishing or hunting birds. Um. Uh.

408
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Speaker 1: One of the one of the characters um that some

409
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Speaker 1: of the other kids meet in another book a puddle

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Speaker 1: glum who is who is a marsh wiggle uh, which

411
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Speaker 1: is a tall, kind of froggy, sort of sort of looking,

412
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Speaker 1: sort of looking person. Um. He he says, he says,

413
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Speaker 1: very seriously, um that that other marsh Wiggles have told

414
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Speaker 1: him that he's way too jolly and that he has

415
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Speaker 1: to learn that life is not all freak a seed

416
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: frogs and eel pie so so much wisdom. But he

417
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Speaker 1: catches he catches eels for for the kids and makes

418
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: them stew right there, and and it seems it seems tasty.

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Speaker 1: Um though, speaking of catching and eating things, Uh, there

420
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Speaker 1: is some cannibalism in these books. What what I don't

421
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Speaker 1: remember cannibalism? Well, well, okay, well there there there is

422
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: at least one point in which um, in which a

423
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 1: group of rather nasty giants um eat a talking stag

424
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: and for for for a Narnian you know, I mean,

425
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: like like if an animal is a talking animal. That's

426
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 1: that's a that's a self conscious creature. You know that

427
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: that would be like like eating eating a person. Um, So,

428
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: so that's not that's that's bad. Um same same giants

429
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: are totally planning on cooking some human pies and and

430
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: doing and doing something to get the string out of

431
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: that marsh wiggle. Um. Yeah, yeah, they find a cookbook.

432
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: They find a cookbook. Um, that's very that's very to

433
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: serve man. Um Uh. But yeah it's got that got

434
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: got this entry. And this is when they know the

435
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: jig is up. Um, it says man, This elegant little

436
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: biped has long been valued as a delicacy. It forms

437
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: a traditional part of the autumn feast and is served

438
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: between the fish and the joint. Hey, at least it's

439
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: a valuable value delicacy. Let's look at all the bright side. Also,

440
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: it says man. It doesn't say what in the so like, oh,

441
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: they were totally going to eat the little girl too.

442
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,479
Speaker 1: They were totally going to eat the little girl too.

443
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: That's their cookbook is wrong, and their recipes to be updated.

444
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: It's feminism is now. There are also a lot of

445
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: feast in these books. They are Yes, in the silver Chair,

446
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: there's a feast at care paravel with quote soups that

447
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 1: would make your mouth water to think of. And then fish, venison,

448
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 1: peacock pies, ices, jellies, fruits, nuts, wines, and fruit drinks. Uh.

449
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: Dinner in the giant Castle before the whole cannibalism thing

450
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: crops up, there's cock leaky soup, hot roast turkey, steamed pudding, roast, chestnuts,

451
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: and as much fruit as you could eat. Oh m

452
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: hm uh in um in in in Yet, in yet

453
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: another castle, there's a there's a beautiful sounding meal of

454
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: pigeon pie, cold ham salad and honey cakes, which interestingly,

455
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: in scare quotes are described as being from some barbarous

456
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: land in the far south. Mm hmmm mm hm cool cool,

457
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: cool cool. We're gonna come back to that one, yes, um.

458
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: But um uh as opposed to these kind of um

459
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: within castle's kind of regal affair things, um, there there

460
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: are a lot more words and and uh language and

461
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: flower flowery stuff um uh spent on describing more simple meals, um,

462
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: like when when the kids get back from this kind

463
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: of horrifying adventure into Narnia proper um it involves a

464
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: breakfast that's described. It's described leslie um sausages and more

465
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: and more and more sausages, not wretched sausages half full

466
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: of bread and soya bean either, but real meaty, spicy ones,

467
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: fat and piping, hot and burst and just the tiniest

468
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: bit burned, and great mugs of frothy chocolate, and roast

469
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: potatoes and roast chestnuts and baked apples with raisins stuck

470
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: in where the cores had been, and then ices just

471
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: to freshen you up after all the hot things. It

472
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: does sound good, Gosh, it does, doesn't it? Oh ha um.

473
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: And then there was one I wanted to mention. Um.

474
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: There there is this this like kingliest feast of all

475
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: kings um set at at Ramadus, set at a Ramandu's island,

476
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 1: at as Land's table um. And and this reminded me

477
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: so much of of when we've done episodes that involved

478
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: these um, these medieval feasts, like kind of like like yeah, yeah,

479
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,719
Speaker 1: because it was described as having umm like not just

480
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: turkeys and geese, but peacocks and boars, heads um venison

481
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: and pies shaped like animals and chips, um ice puddings lobsters, salmon, nuts,

482
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: grapes and pineapples and peaches and pomegranates and melons and tomatoes.

483
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: That was for me, and so many kinds of wine, uh,

484
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: wine on one on one, one on wine on wine. Yeah.

485
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: And then there's also like a toffee tree. Yeah, one

486
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: kind of uh in the Magician's nephew. All of this

487
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: life energy was flowing through this new world of Narnia.

488
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: So when two characters, Polly Plumber and Diggery Kirk, buried

489
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: a piece of toffee in the ground, it grew into

490
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: this tree that produced fruits. I think that resembled dates

491
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: but tasted like toffee. Yeah. There are a lot of

492
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: magical trees that go on in that book. Yes. Speaking

493
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: of let's talk about apples. Yes, and keeping with the

494
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: religious symbolism in these books, apples are common throughout, whether

495
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: they're the magic apple that heals when eaten legally keyword

496
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: and causes evil when not, or the apples that kept

497
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: the peven Seas from starving. In Prince Caspian, the silver

498
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: apple tree species grew from Narnia's Garden of Youth, yielding

499
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: unearthly beautiful silver apples. But more than that, there was

500
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: this irresistible scent to them. Um. Quote as if there

501
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: was a window in the room that opened on heaven.

502
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: Eating the apples produced different outcomes based on whether or

503
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: not they were eating in the right time and place.

504
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: When eaten unlawfully, the juice left stain on the mouth

505
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: caused powers to develop in a way against your desire.

506
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: It sounds like when you make the wish. And of

507
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: course the wish um and Uh, the lawbreaker would forever

508
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: be disgusted by the smell of these apples to prevent,

509
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, further breaking of eating the law against eating hounds. Um.

510
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: While Jadas are the white witch that we became. White

511
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: witch got what she wanted. She could no longer get

512
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: anywhere near the Tree of Protection, and she sentenced herself

513
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: to an eternity of misery. Uh. And there were these

514
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: four types of apple trees that all sort of begat

515
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: each other. So first there was the tree of Youth.

516
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: This grew in the garden of Youth all the way

517
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: back to the beginning Narnia's You Run. Both Degree Kirk

518
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: and Jadis took an apple from the tree, though it

519
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: was guarded by phoenix. Um. But Degree gave his apple

520
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: to as land um, and it grew into the Tree

521
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: of Protection while Jadas devoured hers to gain unending strength

522
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: and immortality. Degree was rewarded with an apple for his

523
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: mother because he did the right thing and she was sick.

524
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, I got to heel her with the yeah, exactly.

525
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: So that brings us to the Tree of Protection, which

526
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: grew from an apple from the Tree of Life that

527
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: Degree took. And this kept evil at Bay and Narnia

528
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 1: for almost nine hundred years before it's death. Before that happened,

529
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: that Degree took a fruit from it in hopes of

530
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: healing Yes, his dying mother Um. When the Tree Protection

531
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: died due to her immortality, Jadis was able to take

532
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 1: control of Narnia and rain for one years, always winter,

533
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: never Christmas. Um. And then that brings us to the

534
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 1: Wardrobe Tree. Yeah. And this is the tree that Yes

535
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: went on to be the wood for the wardrobe and

536
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe Um. And it

537
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: was grown from a leftover core of the magic apple

538
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: that Degrees mother ate. Yeah. So it was planted on earth, uh.

539
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: And it sometimes would move without winds and the sap

540
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 1: was always pure, as pure as Narnia UM. And lastly,

541
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: the tree of knowledge found in Aslin's Country, where it flourishes. Um.

542
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: And Yeah, fruit in general acts as something in these

543
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: books to survive on, but also at feast as a

544
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: luxury indulge in um, particularly in the amountain variety offered

545
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: a lot of the food in these books functions similarly

546
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: in a similar way. Yeah fruits yeah yeah. Um. The

547
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 1: descriptions of quantities of food in general, like like whenever

548
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: it was like, oh man, this feast was super cool.

549
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: It had so much food, Like it had as much

550
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: butter as you want, like you could use as much

551
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: as you want. Like it's it's just such a such

552
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: a like like very post wartime mentality to me. Um.

553
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: That that that I find really really fascinating. Um. In

554
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: Asland's Country Um, as as Land being again the parallel

555
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: to Jesus. Um, there's all manner of amazing food, um,

556
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: beyond description, beyond description, but let me describe it for

557
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: a minute. Um, which is one of my very favorite

558
00:35:54,440 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: literary troops. Um. Yeah. But but non nonbelievers can't enjoy it.

559
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: Oh it's like hook oh yeah yeah, um yeah, there's

560
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: this one uh fruit tree and uh and the narrator says, Unfortunately,

561
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: no one can describe a taste. But compared with those fruits,

562
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: the freshest grapefruit was dull, and the juiciest orange was dry,

563
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: and the most melting pear was hard and woody, and

564
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: the sweetest wild strawberry was sour. And there were no

565
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: seeds or stones and no wasps. If you had once

566
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 1: eaten that fruit, all the nicest things in this world

567
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: would taste like medicines after it. But I can't describe it.

568
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: You can't find out what it is like unless you

569
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: can get to that country and taste it for yourself.

570
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: Oh that is fun. I love that. It's like a

571
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: paragraph of description. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's my favorite thing

572
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: about HP Lovecraft. UH is like, oh, it's beyond description.

573
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 1: Seven pair of graphs later, I'm like, cool, cool, cool, cool,

574
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: you're racist. Um anyway, UM other magical stuff in the

575
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: Chronicles of Narnia. UM, there's a Lucy's Cordial which is

576
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: given to her by Father Christmas, which UM, which is

577
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: a healing potion UM that is made of the juice

578
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: of one of the fire flowers that grow in the

579
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: mountains of the Sun. Oh yeah, yeah yeah. And there's

580
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,720
Speaker 1: also um in a world far beneath the surface of Narnia,

581
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: below even the deepest mines. Beneath the deepest mines um,

582
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: there's a land called bis um Um, where gems live

583
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: and grow like fruits. Um. One of the creatures, one

584
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,399
Speaker 1: of the kind of goblin things from down there, says,

585
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: I'll pick you bunches of rubies that you can eat,

586
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: and squeeze you a cupful of diamond juice. You won't

587
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 1: care much about fingering the cold, dead treasures if your

588
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: shallow minds once you've tasted the live ones of bisom

589
00:37:54,480 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: Oh right, okay, yeah, I spent a really dedicated like

590
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: ever um pretending that pomegranate uh bits where we're rubies

591
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: from bis um Yeah. Yeah. There's also the the sweet

592
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: sea water of the last sea at the end of

593
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 1: the world that it's like drinkable light. Mm hmm, I

594
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: love it. Uh Well, there's also wine yeah, and there's

595
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: beer yeah. And alongside t these beverages show up at

596
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 1: joyous occasions, both big and small, which may just include

597
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: surviving or escaping or not so great adoptive dad, you know,

598
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: why not? Why not? When Edmund is rescued, wine is

599
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: given to him as a as a restorative. Um. The

600
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: aforementioned puddle glum gets gets kind of drunk on some

601
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: kind of liquor from a black bottle, never really specified what.

602
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: And yeah, like there's but there's like kind of a

603
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 1: lot of dry sinking in these books. Um, it's it's always,

604
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: it's always, I mean, aside from that one drunk marsh wiggle. Um,

605
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: it's always kind of like nice drinking, I guess, but

606
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 1: but but but up to the point that like Bacchus

607
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 1: and Silentists are discussed and also show up at one

608
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 1: point with like a kind of scary dance of wood

609
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: nymps and stuff. Um. It says that when they do

610
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: show up, the streams would run with wine instead of water,

611
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: and the whole forest would give itself up to jollification

612
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: for weeks on end. Um. Yeah, the feast when they

613
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: hang out, there's like a bonfire. There's roasted meats, there's

614
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: wheat cakes and oat cakes, and honey and sugars and creams,

615
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: and many different colors, all kinds of fruit, varieties of

616
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: wine again, every color of wine, yellow and green and

617
00:39:52,920 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: yellowish green and greenish yellow. Yes, sure, uh, and I

618
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: guess that's not necessarily the best transition, but it's a

619
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: transition into saying, hey, these books have some problematic stuff

620
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 1: in them here and there. They were written in the fifties. Um,

621
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: you know by a dude who was born and so

622
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 1: looking at many things from the past with the lens

623
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: of our modern perspective, um can can shine lights on

624
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: things that perhaps we're not thought of then. Um. But

625
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: I mean just in okay, like like the biggest thing

626
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: is like really ugly racism towards a group of neighboring

627
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: countrymen called the Calorman, who are clearly to be Arab Muslims.

628
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: Uh not at all nicely portrayed. Uh. And like the

629
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: city is called out. Their city is called out for

630
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: smelling unpleasantly of garlic and onions. Even like a really

631
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: nice meal there is described as like it was a

632
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: fine meal after the calormane fashion. I don't know whether

633
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,240
Speaker 1: you would have liked it or not. Um. And I'm like, oh,

634
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: that's in shady yeah cool. Uh it's it's not it's

635
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: not cool. Um. Uh. There there's there's some other stuff

636
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: in there that's kind of weird. Um, you know, like

637
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: just these these very and I'm and I'm struggling between

638
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: because dude was originally from Ireland, but he had lived

639
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: in England so long and um, and you know it

640
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 1: was I'm trying to decide whether to use the word

641
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: British or English, and I think that British does really

642
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: apply because you know, you've got you've got like as

643
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,439
Speaker 1: land as this lion, like the lion, the Great Lion,

644
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: the King of Beasts, um, which which a is like

645
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: like um zoologically inaccurate. Um. Yeah, Like lions aren't really

646
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: that regal. They mostly steal stuff from other more hard

647
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: working animals that bother to make a kill. Um. But

648
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: uh but but also um, I was I was reading

649
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,479
Speaker 1: into some of the theory about this and um some

650
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: uh some some Christian critics have written a lot about um,

651
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: disagreeing with the portrayal of of Jesus as um this

652
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: hyper powerful and often militant creature UM. And apparently louis

653
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: subscribed to what's called muscular Christianity UM, which has all

654
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: of these ideals of masculinity and athleticism that were that

655
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: were part of that UM tying into that. Uh, there's

656
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 1: I mean there there are at least lady female heroines

657
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:09,280
Speaker 1: in every book that's cool. That's pretty cool. Um, but um,

658
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: frequently yeah, just portrayals of of of masculinity and femininity

659
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 1: are skewed. Um those witches are, which is uh yeah yeah,

660
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: and and yeah. And the problem of Susan, um, you know,

661
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: which which to summarize is that um, Susan, by the

662
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: end of the series is denied entry into Um, into

663
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 1: Aslam's country, into into heaven, essentially because she is and

664
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: I quote interested in nylons and lipstick and invitations. Yeah. Yeah,

665
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 1: it's even as a kid. Laura and I were discussing

666
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: this before and I was like that, but that doesn't

667
00:43:53,760 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: seem chill like that, and it's not it's not. I mean,

668
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,280
Speaker 1: you can make an argument. I can make an argument

669
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,760
Speaker 1: that it's not just that. It's that, you know, she

670
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 1: she gave up her belief in and relationship with as

671
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: Land for these other things. But you know, like critics

672
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,439
Speaker 1: have have positive that it's because she actually just got

673
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: interested in, like maybe having sex, and the C. S.

674
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: Lewis was anti that thing. I didn't know the dude,

675
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,800
Speaker 1: you know, I can't. I can't tell you. Um. But

676
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: but yeah, also I just want to point out this

677
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: is unrelated but I think it's fairly fairly heckanad that

678
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: this whole kingdom of Narnia is destined to be given

679
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: over to the rule of four human randos from another

680
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 1: planet who just like show up and our children. Yeah, yeah,

681
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I guess it's sort of the

682
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: thing with you know, God created people. And then I

683
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: was like, here you go, that's exactly how it went. Yeah, yeah, totally, totally, yeah,

684
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: it just it rings as very odd to me and

685
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: and I this is also part of why I've mentioned

686
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: this on the show before. I am so very fond

687
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: of UM the series The Magicians, because within the series

688
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: there's this this this uh kind of parody Narnia UM

689
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: that the heroes find out is a real place and

690
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: they go there and they're like, oh, this is actually

691
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: sort of screwed. Why why is this like this? UM

692
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: does a lot of commentary about that. His Dark Materials

693
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: also does a bit of commentary, although Philip Pullman was

694
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 1: was more directly referencing Louis's Space Trilogy with that one.

695
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: So how did it's? You know, either way interesting interesting

696
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: UM two to pull apart to think about very much. Yes,

697
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: I will say apparently j R. R ribbed C. S.

698
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: Lewis for the world of Narnia being kind of like

699
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: hastily and haphazardly stitched together from all of these like

700
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: mythological scraps. He was sort of like, go, you didn't

701
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: invent eight languages a whole bio sphere for your world. Okay, Okay,

702
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: I see um. And I wanted to I wanted to

703
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: close considering because I put all this at the end

704
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: and I and I don't want to to end it

705
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: on like a super down note because clearly if it's

706
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: not clear, like like I like, I just I just

707
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 1: read four of these basically for fun over the past

708
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,879
Speaker 1: twenty four hours. Like, I am still very charmed by

709
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: these books and by a lot of the ideas and

710
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: the ideals in them. Um. I think that there very

711
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: sweet for the most part, aside from that really tremendous racism.

712
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: Maybe just skip the Horse and his Boy, y'all, Maybe

713
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: just skip that one. Um. But but I read this

714
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 1: really nice sentiment um in the Houston Chronicle from from

715
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: writer Kyrie O'Connor of regarding what you might tell your

716
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: kids about this sort of thing. If you're talking with

717
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: them about this sort of thing, and she said, the

718
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: man who wrote this book wrote a lot of great stories,

719
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,760
Speaker 1: but they were great when they were complicated and magical,

720
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: when his imagination took him into places and stories that

721
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: were close to his heart. In his time, people thought

722
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: it was amusing to make fun of other cultures. We

723
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 1: don't read the stories, ask questions, and remember that the

724
00:47:54,360 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: person who wrote this story was altogether too human. Yeah.

725
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:07,240
Speaker 1: Always good to look critically at the entertainment you consume.

726
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: Would you still consume it? And you could still like it?

727
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:14,479
Speaker 1: But yeah, as those questions, right, talk about it, be like, man,

728
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: that part sucked? Yeah, and here's why. Yeah. Yeah, Well

729
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: this has been a very fun Christmasy fictional food. Look

730
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 1: at Narnia. We would love if if your listeners have

731
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: Narnia recipes. That'd be amazing. Oh my gosh, yes, yes,

732
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: I mean I've got a box of Turkish Delight downstairs.

733
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: But I bought it. I didn't. I didn't make it

734
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: out of magic or make it myself neither. I mean

735
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: speaking of like not making your own world. Um, and

736
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: also speaking of we do have some listener mail for you,

737
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,359
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we do. But first we've got one more

738
00:48:53,440 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: quick break for a word from our sponsor and we're back.

739
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. Yes, thank you, and we're back with

740
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: it was like a sword thing and then it was snow.

741
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: There was a lot going on. Oh I thought it

742
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: was like a like a like a like a banner,

743
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: like a yeah, I could go for that too. You know,

744
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: it's up for interpretation, Emily Ripe. I just finished listening

745
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: to your episode about carib and I whole heartedly agree

746
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 1: on the rant about food alternatives. It's like chocolate. It

747
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: isn't hecking chocolate. It was my Lauren impression. I just

748
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: had to write to share my experience. I'm going on

749
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: a mostly whole food, plant based lifestyle. My husband and

750
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: I have been doing it for over a year, and

751
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: a big motivator to stick with it was that it

752
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: was the only kind of food I could eat while pregnant,

753
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 1: Thanks Nazi. It's been a year full of some very

754
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 1: good foods and some very pathetic just trying to pack

755
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: off as food. When I mentioned it to friends, I

756
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: get a lot of questions, and my number one piece

757
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: of advice is don't expect to make replacement foods and

758
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,439
Speaker 1: have it tastes just as good as the real deal.

759
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 1: Bless you, if you are good with the neutridden vegan

760
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: mac and cheese. But for those of us who do

761
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: love cheese, it is an insult to your taste buds,

762
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: so please go through it in the compost heap. I

763
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: tried making chilly recipes that typically would include meat as

764
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,439
Speaker 1: meatless dishes, and it tasted so empty. Just a few

765
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: examples of what I'm talking about. Vegan and non restrictive

766
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 1: dishes are not tipped for tat Number two piece of advice, explore,

767
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,879
Speaker 1: try new things, be adventurous, get outside the comfort zone.

768
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: Make crappy dishes. You'll learn how to make food. Your

769
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 1: very good friend. You might be wondering why we eat

770
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: quote mostly a whole food plant basted well, the biggest

771
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,720
Speaker 1: thing is we are weak. Like when Thanksgiving came around,

772
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: I made and we serefully ate very quickly to maple

773
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 1: pumpkin cheesecakes, favorite Thanksgaving treat. In consolation, I tell myself

774
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: that I eat well so I don't feel too guilty

775
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: when I don't well a folcalty, but I also love

776
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: that freaking cheese. No, hey, that is what it is

777
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:10,359
Speaker 1: all about. You know. That's treats are important. Treats are

778
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: really important. They are uh and good for you and

779
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 1: I think this is great advice. Yeah, all around solid

780
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: solid advice ads right, make crappy dishes, yeah, and learn

781
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: from them. Learn from them, yes, always learn, always be

782
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:34,240
Speaker 1: learning always. Nive wrote, after listening to your pastrami episode,

783
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: I wanted to tell you about the spiced beef which

784
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 1: is one of the traditional Christmas dishes in my home city, Cork, Ireland,

785
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 1: which is related to, but not the same as corned

786
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: beef or pastrami. It's salt beef that's been cured in

787
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: a spice blend for two to three months, salted and cured,

788
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: but not smoked. Butchers will have their own secret house

789
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 1: recipe which will include some secret combination of spices such

790
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 1: as cloves, galrangel, galandel. I never know how to say that.

791
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: Moving on, ginger mace, allspice, juniper, cinnamon or peppercorns. For

792
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 1: most of the year, it's hard to find outside Cork City,

793
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: but is more widely available at Christmas time. Our family

794
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: has turkey, ham and spiced beef every year for Christmas dinner,

795
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: making sure to have some left over for sandwiches the

796
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: next day. To give you an idea of its popularity.

797
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: One of the traditional craft butchers and cork sells over

798
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: six tons of spiced beef over the Christmas period and

799
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: this is in a city smaller than Augusta, Georgia. Wow,

800
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: that's quite a bit. That's impressive. I want it, Yes,

801
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 1: I want it. Gosh huh okay yeah maybe one day. Yeah.

802
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: Well in the meantime, Thanks to both of those listeners

803
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 1: for writing. If you'd like to write to us, you can.

804
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 1: Our email is hello at savorpod dot com. You can

805
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 1: also get into to this on social media. Are handles

806
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 1: on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram are at savor pod. And

807
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 1: we do hope to hear from you. Uh. If you

808
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 1: are celebrating a holiday right now, or if you're not,

809
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 1: I hope that you're having a really beautiful one. We

810
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: all do. It's not just me. That was a sucky

811
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: thing to say. Uh huh. Favor is a production of

812
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, you

813
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: can visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

814
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,280
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always

815
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to

816
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:33,919
Speaker 1: you for listening, and we hope that lots more good

817
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:34,959
Speaker 1: things are coming your way.