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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media, Hello, and welcome to Cool People did

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Speaker 1: Cool Stuff the podcast about Deep Space nine, the.

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Speaker 2: Best Star Trek, the horniest Star Trek has ever been,

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Speaker 2: And yeah, God, I've been appreciating that. There's something about

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Speaker 2: I made a comment about how horny Geene Roddenberry, who

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Speaker 2: we will do a hybrid cool people Bastard's episode on

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Speaker 2: He's certainly more on the cool people end, But I

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Speaker 2: made a comment about like what a horny man he was,

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Speaker 2: and someone said, like, what you have to understand about

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Speaker 2: Star Trek is that it's fundamentally smut, and that is

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Speaker 2: that is very true. Yeah, it's just in a way

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Speaker 2: that's a lot more wholesome because it's not at all.

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Speaker 2: Roddenberry has this great line where he was being asked

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Speaker 2: about like the objectification of women in Star Trek, and

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Speaker 2: he's like, well, you know, I've been objectified for my

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Speaker 2: body a lot in my life, and if it's done right,

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Speaker 2: it could be perfectly healthy, not totally wrong.

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Speaker 3: Jeed, Yeah, we should do it. We should do it.

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Speaker 3: Just about the media of that rough era, and then

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Speaker 3: you do Jim Henson and Geene Roddenberry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Henson and Roddenberry, Sure.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, the stuff that made me who I am today.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely Normally, this episode is not actually about Deep Space nine.

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Speaker 3: You'll probably figure that out because you're on part three,

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Speaker 3: But in case you're not, I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy,

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Speaker 3: and today my guest is Robert Evans.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Robert, Hey, are we doing, Margaret good?

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Speaker 3: And we are allowed to go completely off the rails

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Speaker 3: because Sophie's not here.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we have to keep at a certain level of

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Speaker 2: baseline sanity. We're calling that like the Bill Burgh floor, right,

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Speaker 2: just a certain floor of rationality that we're going to keep.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, the main thing that will keep me on subject.

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Speaker 3: Today I realized I've finished the script since the last

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Speaker 3: time we recorded. I knew an awful lot about Marie

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Speaker 3: Niki Ferova before I started writing the script, and by

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Speaker 3: the time I had finished the first two parts. But

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Speaker 3: now I have sort of finished reading more or less

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Speaker 3: everything that is available in English about her. I think

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Speaker 3: she's one of my favorite figures of all of history,

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Speaker 3: and probably my favorite anarchist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, she's growing on me. I gotta give it

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Speaker 2: to you.

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Speaker 3: And she's going to keep doing some really interesting stuff.

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Speaker 3: I also think, although we don't have enough of the details.

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Speaker 3: This is going to be the greatest love story ever told.

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Speaker 3: I know more about the situation with the husband now. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I feel confident in the assertation I made about

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Speaker 3: assertion whatever the thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, both are fine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, people expect me to pronounce the Russian names, right,

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Speaker 3: I can't pronounce the English ones. But where we last

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Speaker 3: left our heroes Marussia, Niki Farova and her free combat jersey.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're running around Ukraine on trains and on horseback,

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Speaker 3: robbing the rich, giving to the poor, setting fire to prisons,

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Speaker 3: and generally being cool. We're gonna get back to some

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Speaker 3: of her exploits. She's got an awful lot of them,

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Speaker 3: more than is easy to keep track of. There's so

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Speaker 3: many cities that she liberates from governments. If I liberated

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Speaker 3: one city from a government and redistributed all the goods

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Speaker 3: from the rest of the poor and empowered the workers

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Speaker 3: to take over their factories, I'd be done.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, like, one of the best moments

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Speaker 2: of my life is about a fifteen minute period where

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Speaker 2: roughly two city blocks were liberated from the government. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: we had maybe a half hour at the long end.

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Speaker 3: And that was great, totally, Like the Paris Commune looms

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Speaker 3: large in the history of leftism in general. That was,

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Speaker 3: you know, six weeks one city. That is what Mercia

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Speaker 3: does for breakfast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So it's nineteen eighteen now and things are spicy, all yearned.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, spicy, famously spice period.

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Speaker 3: Of ten yeah. Yeah, not always the easiest to live in.

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Speaker 3: She found out that the Bolsheviks and Sevastpool had imprisoned

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Speaker 3: eight anarchists. So the free combat Jerzina like drops its

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Speaker 3: war against the nationalists at this moment to go show up.

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Speaker 3: The Bolsheviks don't even wait for her to arrive. As

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Speaker 3: soon as they hear she's on her way, they free

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Speaker 3: the anarchist prisoners because they heard she was coming.

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Speaker 2: That's the best compliment you could give somebody. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: then you spread liberty by your presence the same way

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Speaker 2: that like a nuclear meltdown spreads radiation. You're like the

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Speaker 2: chernoble of human freedom.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Oh, I wonder if she ended up

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Speaker 3: in that area anyway. In nineteen eighteen or nineteen, depending

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Speaker 3: on your source, she helped overthrow the government of another city,

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Speaker 3: and she found out that the local Bolshevik military leader

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Speaker 3: who had taken power. There was a tyrant and the

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Speaker 3: soldiers underneath him were underdressed and underfed. So she went

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Speaker 3: to his apartment, marched him outside, forced him to strip,

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Speaker 3: give all of his clothes to his men, and then

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Speaker 3: shot him. Her and the anarchists then went around the

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Speaker 3: city and forced the food to be distributed equally, despite

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Speaker 3: because basically at this point the Bolsheviks are giving food

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Speaker 3: and clothes to Bolsheviks but not to other leftists who

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Speaker 3: are part of the revolution, like Leftis suppers and unaffiliated folks.

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Speaker 3: And she basically went to the Bolshevik RevCom of the

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Speaker 3: city and was like, look, if you don't start feeding

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Speaker 3: people here equally, I'm just going to shoot all of you.

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Speaker 2: There. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So, since there bureaucrats to the end, the RevCom set

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Speaker 3: up a quote committee on the settlement of the conflict

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Speaker 3: with Mariusia amazing stuff. Yeah, you're going.

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Speaker 2: To have my own committee dedicated to the fact that, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because it's like everybody scared beef with me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and they can't quite just arrest or shoot her

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Speaker 3: because she is like the hero of the revolution at

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Speaker 3: this point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she's simply too cool for that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Becas eventually she leaves the city, and meanwhile the

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Speaker 3: local nationalists reach in an agreement with Germany to ask

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Speaker 3: for German aid. So the Germans invade and they start

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Speaker 3: taking over Ukraine, and they just start brutally massacring people,

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Speaker 3: especially anyone who might be a leftist, like especially Jews,

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Speaker 3: who are all suspected of being leftists. That's not the

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Speaker 3: only reason they're killed. They're also being killed because it's

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Speaker 3: nationalists and they want to kill all the Jews anyway,

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Speaker 3: but it's like they double hate them. There's a huge

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Speaker 3: battle in the city of Yusavathrad where the Black Army

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Speaker 3: led by Nikki Farova, alongside the Red Army, tried to

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Speaker 3: take the city back from the nationalists or conquer it

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Speaker 3: from the nationalists, depending on who you ask. There's a

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Speaker 3: lot of like I liberated the city and like, well,

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Speaker 3: some of the people are really happy you were there,

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Speaker 3: but some of the people like the other.

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Speaker 2: People too, yeah, yeah, sure.

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Speaker 3: And the Red and Black Army is they attacked by

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Speaker 3: railway because this is a war where in which you

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Speaker 3: could fight from armored trains.

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Speaker 2: People had just figured out trains and they were very

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Speaker 2: excited about the killing other people. Potential that trains.

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Speaker 3: Have Yeah, which is funny because I think this is

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Speaker 3: also the war in which we learned why we don't

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Speaker 3: do this anymore. Yeah, you know, because trains only go

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Speaker 3: one direction at a time, fairly predictable.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think two technically, right, you can you

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Speaker 2: can reverse them. Yeah, well that's how the Cossacks got

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Speaker 2: fucked up. So they reversed, and then they reversed into

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Speaker 2: their own front's train, but rowick. So they captured the

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Speaker 2: city by railway, and they won the main strategic goal,

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Speaker 2: which was freeing all the anarchist prisoners in town. Maria

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Speaker 2: Nikifova could not stand to see pretty much anyone in

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Speaker 2: a cage, but especially her comrades, especially the anarchists. Then

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Speaker 2: the German army invaded and they were forced to retreat

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Speaker 2: again for a moment. In nineteen eighteen, all was lost. Nationalists,

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Speaker 2: alongside the Aufe Hungarian occupiers, started retaking the country, and

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Speaker 2: all throughout this time the management of individual areas and

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Speaker 2: cities was in constant flux. Basically, it's like, oh, the

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Speaker 2: nationalists control this, like, oh no, now theres areus control it.

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Speaker 2: Oh now the Bolsheviks control Oh no, now the anarchists

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Speaker 2: control it, and almost every side, sometimes including the anarchists,

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Speaker 2: but like mostly not is just purging everyone every chance

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Speaker 2: they can get.

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Speaker 3: So it's kind of awful. I run across statements about

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Speaker 3: how non purgy the anarchists were. Those statements were written

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Speaker 3: by anarchist historians, however, they seem to be reasonably accurate.

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Speaker 3: But I can point to at least one counter example

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Speaker 3: where when the anarchists take over a city, they're like, where,

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Speaker 3: we're going to kill all the nationalist leaders or whatever,

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Speaker 3: you know, and that's just war. You actually do a

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Speaker 3: pretty good job in your episode talking about the fact

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Speaker 3: that it's like all of the people fighting during this

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Speaker 3: It's like, no, one's great. You have a war.

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Speaker 2: You can't do a war and not do bad things, right,

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Speaker 2: That doesn't excuse it. It's this really complicated nuance that

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about. Ethics on Twitter does not prepare us

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Speaker 2: well for where like it's like, yeah, you know, it

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Speaker 2: was bad, for example, to level so many German cities

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Speaker 2: the way that we did in World War Two. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't equivocate us to the Nazis. It's just like you

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Speaker 2: can't in saying that, like, yeah, well, we were going

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Speaker 2: to do bad stuff because we were prosecuting a war

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Speaker 2: and that's inevitable. Also, does it mean you can't do better? Right,

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Speaker 2: These are important things to understand, and it really shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be all that hard to get people through.

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Speaker 3: And this is one of the best examples I've ever

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Speaker 3: seen of people trying to do that. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: think I'm going to get into it a little bit

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Speaker 3: more later. But like Makano for example, and the Makknow China,

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Speaker 3: the anarchist society that gets set up during this they

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Speaker 3: whenever the Black Army, whenever the anarchists do anyone in

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Speaker 3: that group does programs, they get killed by their own side.

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Speaker 3: And they like Makno is like running around arming Jewish

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Speaker 3: communities that aren't part of his thing, just to be like, hey,

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Speaker 3: like we hear the people are trying to put gram

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Speaker 3: you here's a bunch of guns and stuff like that,

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Speaker 3: you know, And that doesn't mean that people weren't doing

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Speaker 3: bad stuff, but that's like they were proactive about trying

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Speaker 3: to mitigate the effects of the bad stuff. Yeah, And

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Speaker 3: so marius Yah, she's running around liberating in all these cities.

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Speaker 3: Her charisma ideas often win over the working class. Also,

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Speaker 3: the fact that like one really good way to win

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Speaker 3: over the working classes to steal all this stuff from

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Speaker 3: the rich people and then hand it out like the

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Speaker 3: thing that anytime they show up anywhere, they just like

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Speaker 3: rob all the rich people. They take inventory, and then

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Speaker 3: they distribute it equally as best as they can, and

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Speaker 3: that's a really good way to get people on your side.

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Speaker 3: But in early nineteen eighteen, i think February, her detachment

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Speaker 3: was camped out in the local train station in a

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Speaker 3: city called Elizavi Gorod and went around forcing the rich

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Speaker 3: people to donate to their cause, all while in a

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Speaker 3: vague truce with the impromptu government of the city, because

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Speaker 3: like sometimes it's not even held by one of the sides,

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Speaker 3: the city's just held by, like in this case, the

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Speaker 3: city's kind of held by like an impromptu coalition of

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Speaker 3: the bourgeoisie and the Mensheviks. While the anarchists are running

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Speaker 3: around doing this redistribution. One factory had all of its

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Speaker 3: wages stolen, like someone showed up and stole all the

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Speaker 3: money was supposed to go to the workers, And this

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Speaker 3: was quite possibly done by the free combat Rosina and

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Speaker 3: the workers are all real pissed, right, So Mariusia She's like,

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Speaker 3: all right, I'm gonna do the thing I always do.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna go and I'm gonna give a talk and

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Speaker 3: everyone's gonna love me and it's gonna be great. She

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Speaker 3: goes to get a talk for the assembled workers at

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Speaker 3: the factory and everyone's basically like no, fuck you and

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Speaker 3: doesn't let her get a word in. So she pulls

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Speaker 3: out two guns and like shoots them into the air

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Speaker 3: and be like, oh, that's going to get it.

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Speaker 2: Ah, And usually it's it's assigned to how cool she is.

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Speaker 2: Nearly everyone who pulls out two guns is like, just

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Speaker 2: be just being an idiot, right, Yeah, to be to

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Speaker 2: be able to pull out two guns and use them

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Speaker 2: properly and credible stuff, incredible stuff. She assemite sammed it

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Speaker 2: and did it right, but it didn't work this time.

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Speaker 3: She does it a lot, but this time it turns

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Speaker 3: out like sometimes if you shoot a gun above a crowd,

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Speaker 3: it'll make everyone go quiet. Sometimes it just may everyone panics.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's.

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Speaker 3: A fire in a crowd in theater environment. So this

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Speaker 3: did not work that day. The workers panicked, Mario Ucia

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Speaker 3: had to get whisked out by her bodyguards, and workers

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Speaker 3: fired on her retreating carriage and she was quote lightly wounded.

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Speaker 2: Well, okay, I guess this. I'm back on side. Maybe

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Speaker 2: don't fire two guns in the air most of the time,

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 3: But have ever told you my two knife theory of

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Speaker 3: self defense?

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Speaker 2: No? No, no, well you know I think you have

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Speaker 2: brought this up, but please, for the ship, for purpose

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Speaker 2: of the show, let's do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay. So you know when I was I was

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Speaker 3: a street kid for a while, and people would give

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Speaker 3: me a lot of shit because I was wearing a

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Speaker 3: dress and living on the street or whatever. And I

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Speaker 3: thought to myself, well, if you pull a knife on

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Speaker 3: some never pull I'm speaking theoretically. I never I totally

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Speaker 3: never did this. So if you pull a knife on

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Speaker 3: someone who's messing with you, that's often a bad idea.

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Speaker 3: And you know, knives are not actually great for self

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Speaker 3: defense in a lot of ways. If you pull two

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Speaker 3: knives on someone, you're a crazy motherfucker. And so people

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Speaker 3: would mess with me and I'd pull two knives and

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Speaker 3: run after them screaming, and then they would run away.

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Speaker 3: And then later I was, you know, studying proper self defense,

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Speaker 3: and I was explaining this theory of self defense and

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Speaker 3: they were like, well, what do you do if they stop?

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, well, I turn around and run away.

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Speaker 3: Like if it didn't work, I'm just casting a fear spell.

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Speaker 3: If the fear spell doesn't work, I'm not fighting them,

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Speaker 3: I'm running the fuck away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I would never encourage anyone to do almost anything I

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Speaker 3: did in my twenties, to be honest, and that's among

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Speaker 3: the things I would not encourage.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, it works for me. The only version

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Speaker 2: of the gads did flag I like is the uh

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Speaker 2: the snake wrapped around to hand grenade that says fuck

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Speaker 2: with me and I'll kill us all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's actually some there's actually some wisdom buried within

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00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:02,320
Speaker 2: that meme.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that is what has kept us out

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Speaker 3: of World War three since the nineteen forties, is that

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Speaker 3: many countries are a snake wrapped around a grenade right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And that could all stop working in a

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Speaker 2: really bad way, but it hasn't. It hasn't yet, right

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Speaker 2: at least in this timeline.

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Speaker 3: My theory is that we can't exist in a world

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Speaker 3: that destroyed itself in nuclear war in the twentieth century

283
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:35,680
Speaker 3: and anyway, so Mariuciam gets out the city. Militia marches

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Speaker 3: on the train station where the anarchists are camped, and

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Speaker 3: the anarchists are better armed, but the militia is more numerous,

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Speaker 3: which means that the anarchists had to retreat, but they

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Speaker 3: killed a fuck ton of people that They're like, at

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00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,720
Speaker 3: this point, you're like shooting union workers who are trying

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Speaker 3: to march on you and kill you. But it's like

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00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,240
Speaker 3: that sucks. Civil wars suck, you know. Yeah, And a

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Speaker 3: machine gunned down a bunch of people because they're much

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Speaker 3: better armed than the masses marching on them. So the

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Speaker 3: Bolsheviks show up and try to force the city to surrender.

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Speaker 3: The city was like, nah, I'm good, We're not going

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Speaker 3: to surrender to you. And the Red Army unit invaded

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Speaker 3: and the militia just trashed them and then started torturing

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Speaker 3: and executing all the Red Army prisoners, accusing them of

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Speaker 3: working with Mariusia. Yeah, the militia's slogan was down with anarchy,

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Speaker 3: and rumors were being spread that she was basically just

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Speaker 3: a bandit, and that was the primary This kind of

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00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,640
Speaker 3: remains the primary anti anarchist view of the Ukrainian anarchists

302
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Speaker 3: during this era is that they're bandits. I would argue

303
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:41,080
Speaker 3: that every military in this area is doing some version

304
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Speaker 3: of this, and we'll talk about more of that. But

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Speaker 3: the problem now Mariusia, she's gotten out of the city,

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Speaker 3: but there's now prisoners in the city. She can't leave prisoners.

307
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Speaker 3: It's like she's constitutionally incapable of leaving prisoners. I can't

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00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,240
Speaker 3: point to a single instance where she does.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 3: The Free combat Jersey and now attacks the city that

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00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,800
Speaker 3: just trashed their allies right attacks the city from the north,

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Speaker 3: and the city can scripts everyone it can to throw

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Speaker 3: them into the trenches, and they do the same thing

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Speaker 3: that later the Bolsheviks are going to do in Cronstadt,

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Speaker 3: where you dig one trench and that's where you put

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Speaker 3: all the conscripts, and then you dig a trench behind that,

317
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Speaker 3: and that's where you put the officers with machine guns

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Speaker 3: to kill all the conscripts who try to run away. Sure,

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Speaker 3: so that's not great, and they have a battle and

320
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Speaker 3: at last days the anarchists got help from the Red Army.

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Speaker 3: The city to government declares itself for the nationalists and

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Speaker 3: tries to get help from the Germans. But the Germans

323
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,320
Speaker 3: don't get there fast enough. A Red Army train with

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Speaker 3: a freedom or Death banner rode in from the south

325
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,560
Speaker 3: while the battle that was in the north, and they

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00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,880
Speaker 3: take the city. Because the Malicia is busy, the anarchists

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Speaker 3: and the Bolshevik prisoners are freed. Mariusia and others spend

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Speaker 3: their time trying to say it was like all a

329
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,400
Speaker 3: big misunderstanding and they're friends with the workers, and this

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00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,640
Speaker 3: time it works. This time she's like, She's probably like, hey,

331
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,680
Speaker 3: remember when they were machine gunning you and forcing you

332
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Speaker 3: to fight us, We're actually on your side. And that

333
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:11,360
Speaker 3: time it kind of worked. And the anarchists who took

334
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 3: the city didn't do reprisals. They just robbed the rich

335
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,040
Speaker 3: and distributed it to the working class. Again, I think

336
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:17,639
Speaker 3: this is why it worked when they said we're on

337
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,359
Speaker 3: your side. The Bolsheviks held the city for about a month.

338
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,960
Speaker 3: Then the German invaders took it. The German soldiers, they

339
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,120
Speaker 3: loved reprisals, lots of torture and murder and rape when

340
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,200
Speaker 3: they came through. And I'm going to quote from that book,

341
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:35,200
Speaker 3: The Revolution without Delay. The Battle of eliza it Grod

342
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,720
Speaker 3: is an typical example of the Ukrainian Civil War, desperate

343
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,600
Speaker 3: battles between fierce opponents, then a third more powerful side

344
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:47,159
Speaker 3: arriving to take the pot. But if you want to

345
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,000
Speaker 3: take the pot, you can.

346
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:55,000
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, Margaret, I'm so excited that Joseph Robinette Brandon,

347
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,439
Speaker 2: our president, has made marijuana kind of legal, because I

348
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,200
Speaker 2: think soon we're going to get to actually have pot

349
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,800
Speaker 2: advertisements on this show, Like it's gonna be one of

350
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,360
Speaker 2: those things like this has happened with ketamine, and we'll

351
00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,840
Speaker 2: take the ketamine ad money if they'll give it to us,

352
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,679
Speaker 2: where you can go you hire a doctor online and

353
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,199
Speaker 2: the doctor's job is to prescribe you ketamine and it

354
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,600
Speaker 2: is completely legal. We're going to be doing that with

355
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,520
Speaker 2: pot soon. And I'm really because it was like that.

356
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,879
Speaker 2: It was never federally legal, but in California for a

357
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 2: time back and forth, was it was legal legal. You'd

358
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,640
Speaker 2: go to a fake doctor and you'd get prescribed your marijuana,

359
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,040
Speaker 2: and then there was this brief period where you could

360
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 2: just take it anywhere at any time and no one

361
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,680
Speaker 2: could get angry at you because you're like, I literally

362
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,000
Speaker 2: have a doctor's note. And that's what we're finally going

363
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,000
Speaker 2: to have the federally where you can like walk up

364
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 2: to a deage and with your joint and be like,

365
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,399
Speaker 2: this is my medicine. I have a prescription for as

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00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 2: much pot. It's like an hold in my pockets. And

367
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,480
Speaker 2: I'm just letting you know, pot companies, we'll sell weed

368
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,119
Speaker 2: for you. We'll do it happily once that's legal.

369
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the only way any of us have ever

370
00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 3: sold weed is if it's legal.

371
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, like all law abiding pot heads, I've only

372
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,040
Speaker 2: smoked marijuana in Portugal.

373
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:12,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. When I moved to Amsterdam, everyone was like, ah,

374
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,400
Speaker 3: you're moving there for a weed. I'm like, no, squatting's

375
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,199
Speaker 3: legal there, squatting.

376
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,959
Speaker 2: Like yeah, it's like how we like the One of

377
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:24,240
Speaker 2: my favorite stories is that like the federal government accidentally

378
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,080
Speaker 2: legalized marijuana federally as long as you as long as

379
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,120
Speaker 2: it's technically hemp. Like that's why you can buy pot

380
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,920
Speaker 2: at the store in Texas now they can't, so interesting.

381
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,639
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, and they had to. Like it's because

382
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,359
Speaker 2: of the way that like certain different kinds of THHC

383
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,920
Speaker 2: are regulated when they're in hemp. But like, yeah, the uh, yeah,

384
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 2: I think it was the FDA came out and was like, no,

385
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,200
Speaker 2: this specific kind of weed is not regulated under the

386
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,399
Speaker 2: Controlled Substances Act. It's beautiful stuff.

387
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,640
Speaker 3: I mean, it's so dumb that, like ketamine, had it happen.

388
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong. Ketamine has saved many of my friends' lives,

389
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 3: Like chem therapy has been incredibly.

390
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, useful for a lot of my friends. Unbelievably powerful. Medicine.

391
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, way more, fox you up, way more than weed.

392
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 2: Oh my god, so much more, so much stronger of

393
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 2: a drug.

394
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. Weed better for you than alcohol.

395
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, better for you than basically everything, Probably.

396
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 3: Better than caffeine. As a song.

397
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 2: Is certainly less harmful than caffeine. Yeah, probably probably, Yeah,

398
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 2: with you with the caveat that. Like marijuana, like most hallucinogens,

399
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 2: has the ability to set off schizophrenic symptoms and people

400
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,200
Speaker 2: who are prone to that already.

401
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I mean nothing is and I think people

402
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,679
Speaker 3: at all. I don't do drugs. I'm justgalization.

403
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I've been sober for years. Well, I've been

404
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 2: Oregon sober. So I take creative.

405
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 3: Well, if you're listening in the future, you might be

406
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 3: about to get a pod ad, right, But here's the

407
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 3: rest of them.

408
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 2: And we're back.

409
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 3: So one of the things that actually I was really

410
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 3: surprised about about this timeline of the invasion of Ukraine

411
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 3: by the Germans is that I had thought that had

412
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,200
Speaker 3: happened when the Bolsheviks signed the treaty, the peace treaty

413
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 3: with the to end World War One, but it actually

414
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 3: on invitation of the nationalists. You start getting foreign armies

415
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 3: coming in from the west. The German invasion was about

416
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,639
Speaker 3: a half a million soldiers. The defenders, the Bolsheviks and

417
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 3: the anarchists had about thirty thousand people total. Those are

418
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,439
Speaker 3: fucking crazy odds. The conquest took all of the spring

419
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 3: of nineteen eighteen, despite only thirty thousand people holding off

420
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 3: half a million. The free combat Jerzina no longer had

421
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,479
Speaker 3: access to the railways, so this is when they switched

422
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 3: to horseback and start doing that thing where they ride

423
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 3: in colored stripes. I found another source that back that

424
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 3: went out, although that other source might have been using

425
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 3: the first source. It's all can messy with this particular story.

426
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,120
Speaker 3: And since the Reds were desperately outnumbered and then retreat.

427
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,679
Speaker 3: You ever been in a leftist social movement that's suddenly

428
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 3: not winning anymore? Robert, No, that's never happened to any

429
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 3: other leftist movement. It was just the one guys trash. Well,

430
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 3: since then, nothing has never happened before or after. You'll

431
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 3: be surprised to know that what they did was immediately

432
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 3: started in fighting the Bolsheviks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Bolsheviks

433
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 3: used the opportunity to argue about ideology and to politically

434
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 3: maneuver themselves. They had this captured a state, right, and

435
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 3: they used it to have this how is this going,

436
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 3: how do we retreat meeting between the Bolsheviks and the anarchists. Yeah,

437
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 3: and both sides at that were like, hey, we are

438
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 3: allies of convenience. We just got to make sure everyone

439
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 3: knows that. And one of the reasons for that is

440
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 3: that the anarchists, they just captured this estate, right, so

441
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 3: they start inventory into distributing the clothes of all the

442
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 3: rich people to the local poor people in the neighborhood.

443
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 3: And the Bolshevik can Anders said that on principle he

444
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 3: didn't talk about such trivial matters as that. So the

445
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 3: Bolsheviks at this meeting, they start giving these speeches about

446
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,679
Speaker 3: the need for unity and discipline and mari Usia and

447
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 3: the rest of the anarchists they hear this, and they're like, oh.

448
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 2: Has anyone ever used the word unity and not meant

449
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 2: do what exactly what I want you to do?

450
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 3: I wish they did. The concept is okay.

451
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 2: The concept there's there's there's a there's a rational basis

452
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 2: for it. It's just almost always used bardly Yeah. Yeah.

453
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 3: And so Mariusia and the other anarchists they hear this

454
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 3: and they're like, we know which way the wind is blowing,

455
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 3: and so they leave, like in the middle of the speech.

456
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 3: They're like, we're out of here, which is good because

457
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 3: as soon as the speech was done, the Bolsheviks showed

458
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 3: up to disarm her and dissolve the anarchist units. But

459
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 3: there weren't only there. They had all left because they

460
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 3: went to back to home to Alexandrovsk to prepare to

461
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 3: defend the city against the nationalist invasion. And here's where

462
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 3: we get one of the old only hints that there

463
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 3: were plenty, or at least more women in the anarchist ranks.

464
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 3: During a battle in the outskirts of the city, someone

465
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 3: found a woman's body wearing all black leather, which was

466
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 3: the style of the free combat Dresina yeah, and assumed

467
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 3: it was Mariusia, but it was a different woman, presumably

468
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 3: a fighter. So again it's this like everyone's being like, oh,

469
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 3: and then all the anarchists men's soldiers, you know, and

470
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 3: you're like, so you start thinking, like, oh, Mariusia is

471
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 3: like the sole woman and she's just a leader, she's

472
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 3: not a rank and file fighter. I'm certain that isn't true.

473
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 3: And here's like one of the pieces of counter evidence

474
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 3: I have, but no one's talking about it and really

475
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 3: annoys me. So I just don't know. By April eighteenth,

476
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 3: Alexandrovsk fell with a Jerzina, the last unit to flee

477
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 3: the city, and this actually is going to come up

478
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 3: later and like trial against her. They're going to like

479
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 3: put her on trial for like deserting, and she's like,

480
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 3: I was literally you all fucking deserted first. You were

481
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 3: to fuckers.

482
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was no one left.

483
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and peasants were slaughtered without trial at the slightest

484
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 3: hint of having been anti landlord. And of course the

485
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 3: German invaders also went around taking the rich people's stuff.

486
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 3: They just also took the poor people's stuff, and they

487
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 3: took it for their own army nearby Gouliepulia, which is

488
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 3: Makno's hometown. We talked about a bit. It has fallen

489
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 3: too the nationalists as well, and all the local managing

490
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 3: bodies have been arrested. Mariusia runs into Makno to hear

491
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 3: about how his older brother had been shot in front

492
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 3: of his own wife. Another of his brothers was captured,

493
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 3: so Mariusia convinced him to join her and an assault

494
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 3: to retake the village. And they go around and they

495
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 3: start gathering up armored cars and all that shit. But

496
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 3: the Nationalists had advanced too far, and so there's no

497
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 3: longer a clear line of attack because now that it

498
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 3: is no longer the front, you.

499
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, yeah, it's the back at this point.

500
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. And so they, the two anarchist commanders and their

501
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 3: forces retreat east. The Bolsheviks in March sign a peace tree.

502
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 3: You at Germany, giving up Ukraine in the process, and

503
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 3: a quarter of its population and three quarter of its

504
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 3: industry of all of Russia, and now the Bolsheviks are

505
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 3: out of the fight down there as well. At this point,

506
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 3: the structural differences between Bolshevik and anarchist revolutions are starting

507
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 3: to come to a head. The Bolsheviks wanted war communism,

508
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 3: which was top down control of all industry, while the

509
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 3: anarchists wanted worker control of the industry. On April twelfth,

510
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 3: nineteen eighteen, in Russia, the Bolsheviks launched raids against twenty

511
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 3: six anarchist spaces. They arrested four hundred people. They dissolved

512
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 3: the Moscow Federation of Anarchist Groups, and the Bolsheviks said

513
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 3: all this was to stop the criminals who had been,

514
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 3: you know, taking things from the rich and distributed them.

515
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 3: Like That's what the main beef was about, is that

516
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 3: the anarchists were like, well, as soon as we do this,

517
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 3: we take the stuff from the rich people and we

518
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 3: distributed it, and the Bolsheviks were like, no, it's like

519
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 3: comes later, it's eventually, it's fine. It's fine. In Ukraine Marusia,

520
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 3: she reaches the city Taganrog on the Azov Se and

521
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 3: the Bolsheviks arrest her, and when she asks the Bolshevik

522
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 3: commander why she's been arrested, he says, I don't know.

523
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 3: I don't know why you've been arrested, just that you've

524
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 3: been arrested, and the charges wound up being the desertion

525
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,360
Speaker 3: of the city right as well as the robbing rich

526
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 3: people thing. She let herself go to trial, and we

527
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 3: know she let herself go to trial. We know that

528
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 3: she one hundred percent could have been busted out because

529
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 3: of what then happened. An anarchist takes the stand at

530
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 3: this trial as like a character witness, and what he

531
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 3: does is he explains in no uncertain terms. He said

532
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 3: that if quote the comrade Nikki Farova had accepted to

533
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 3: appear in court, it was because she considered most of

534
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 3: the judges to be real revolutionaries and she knew that

535
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 3: in leaving this court room, she and her detachment would

536
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 3: be cleared of all suspicions, that their weapons would be returned,

537
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 3: and that they would be left to continue fighting the

538
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 3: counter revolution. If she had thought that the tribunal would

539
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 3: rather show leniency to the plans of the government and

540
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 3: it's provocateurs, she would have informed me and I swear

541
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 3: in the name of the whole crew of the armored

542
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 3: train that we have would come and free her by force.

543
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 3: And there's so many good things going on.

544
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, one that's a lot.

545
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like sure, it's better for me if you find

546
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 3: me innocent, that if I just kill you all, you know.

547
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 3: And second, it's one thing to swear on God, it's

548
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 3: another thing to swear on the whole crew of that

549
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 3: armored train over there.

550
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's your man. One day, one day, if

551
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,719
Speaker 2: this country ever heals, we'll have a president sworn in

552
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 2: on their anarchist armored train of the Bible. Yeah.

553
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 3: You'll be shocked to know, Robert, that she was acquitted

554
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 3: of all charges.

555
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 2: Oh ah, that that that warms my heart.

556
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, justice, justice wins out, or at.

557
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: Least an armored train did.

558
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. And as soon as she's out, her and Makno

559
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 3: are running around making speeches to the workers again. And

560
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 3: one of their whole big things is, we don't need

561
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 3: a revolutionary army from Russia to do this. We the

562
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 3: workers can arm ourselves and drive out the nationalists. And

563
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 3: they they do prove that over and over again, like

564
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 3: the big army from Russia, all so useful to have,

565
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 3: don't get me wrong. And then after that their paths

566
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 3: diverge again. Makno goes home to retake Gugliepulia and wage

567
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 3: a guerrilla war and start building the anarchist society we

568
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 3: all know in love in history, the Maknovchina Marusia. She's

569
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 3: less of a build the Revolution type. She's not anti that,

570
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 3: but she's less that, and she's more of a war leader,

571
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 3: so she's off to the front. She stops along the

572
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 3: way to burn property records and big bonfires in the

573
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 3: middle of towns while the townspeople look on and cheer.

574
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 3: A description from a witness of them at the time

575
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 3: said they looked like Spaniards with long hair and black capes,

576
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 3: a pair of large pistols stuck out of their belts,

577
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 3: and they carry grenades in their pots. The younger ones

578
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 3: wore bell bottom trousers and gold bracelets.

579
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: Amazing stuff. Yeah, and it goes it just it further

580
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 2: proves what I've said for a long time, which is

581
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: that you're never fully dressed without some hand grenades in

582
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: your pocket.

583
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 3: I know, I know, it's criminal. We should be arresting

584
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 3: people for going around naked.

585
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, police, just to like the reverse stopping frisk

586
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: where you're like stopping people in the subway going now,

587
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: you can't get on the subway. You don't even have

588
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: one hand grenade. What are you think?

589
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, come on, yeah, totally what are you doing? By

590
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 3: autumn the German invasion was stopped, and the Bolsheviks immediately

591
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 3: went back to trying to disarm the anarchists as soon

592
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 3: as the anarchists are done stopping the German invasion once again,

593
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 3: whenever the Bolsheviks wanted to find Maryus, he had to

594
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 3: disarm her. Her and her soldiers were nowhere to be found.

595
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 3: By November, Germany had lost World War One and the

596
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 3: peace treaty said get the fuck out of Ukraine though

597
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 3: for real, and so the German occupation government fell to

598
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 3: a coup a'ta by Ukrainian nationalists, which is now distinct

599
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 3: at this point from the White army who wanted to

600
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 3: bring back Grand Ole Russia. And they're still around too. Yeah, Mariucia,

601
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 3: though she's busy. She's capturing Odessa from the Whites, burning

602
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: the prison before being driven out by Greek and French

603
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 3: armies who were allied with the nationalists. And then she's

604
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 3: also busy getting arrested again by the Bolsheviks. Sure, sure,

605
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 3: that's a full time job. It is a full time job.

606
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 3: Most people only apply to that job once. This is

607
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 3: time to where she got the job. The White terror

608
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 3: is going on everywhere, all potential revolutionaries being killed, but

609
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 3: you also have the Red Terror in which potential revolutionaries

610
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 3: are being killed just by the Bolsheviks instead. But so

611
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 3: it would have been completely in character for them to

612
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 3: shoot her. But they couldn't shoot her because she was famous.

613
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 3: She's the heroine of the revolution. I'm unsure exactly when

614
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 3: she starts getting compared to Joan of Arc, but I

615
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 3: think it's around now, and they definitely were like, she's

616
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 3: personally met Lenin. We can't shoot her, right, great stuff, Yeah,

617
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 3: they do. They take her out of the front. She's

618
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 3: transferred to Moscow and released on bail. The anarchists hadn't

619
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 3: fully split from the Bolsheviks yet everywhere, and some high

620
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,239
Speaker 3: up Bolsheviks also really actually liked her because when they

621
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 3: were like, hey, we think that the you judges actually

622
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 3: have some real revolutionaries in you. There's still some real

623
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 3: revolutionaries in the Bolsheviks, and there's like some Bolsheviks who

624
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 3: particularly like have a soft spot for and so this

625
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 3: high at Bolshevik and then an anarchist, her husband who

626
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 3: has been working in the administration of the Bolsheviks, like

627
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 3: a lot of anarchists, they were there like we personally

628
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 3: guarantee her good behavior. She'll be fine. She's not going

629
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 3: to do anything mean to you if you let her

630
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 3: go before trial. Her charges were basically what she'd already

631
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 3: been acquitted of, stealing from the rich people without asking

632
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 3: for permission. First, while she was out on bail awaiting trial,

633
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 3: she got back into art, and she also got back

634
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 3: into trying to get all the anarchists into one organization. Basically,

635
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 3: as soon as she's like, well, I can't be in

636
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 3: a war, I guess I'll do organizing an art. In

637
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 3: December eight, nineteen eighteen, she joins the All Russian Congress

638
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 3: of Anarchist Communists and they argue about how much to

639
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 3: support the Bolsheviks. They couldn't reach consensus on the matter,

640
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 3: and in the end they kind of went with Maryusia's suggestion,

641
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,239
Speaker 3: which was to work with the Soviets only when they

642
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 3: quote went with the masses, which implies leaving each one

643
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 3: to their free conscience. So she's not even like, hey,

644
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 3: we declare war on the Bolsheviks. She's like, we don't

645
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 3: trust the Bolsheviks, but we still know that sometimes they're

646
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 3: actually working for the revolution, And we don't have a

647
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,719
Speaker 3: lot of firsthand quotes from her we've got what Makno

648
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 3: wrote about her. We've also got the notes from the meeting,

649
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,479
Speaker 3: and it's the best understanding we have of her as

650
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 3: a political thinker. And this is where I started being like, oh,

651
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 3: like I genuine because she's usually painted as kind of

652
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 3: the like bad anarchist to Makno's good anarchist. You know,

653
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 3: she's the like kill the rich and he's the rob

654
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 3: the rich. Is the way that they often present it, right, Yeah,

655
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 3: but we have some of our own talking about this

656
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,720
Speaker 3: at these meetings. She believes in both the violent revolution

657
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 3: and also nonviolent components, like spreading ideas of mutual aid

658
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 3: and solidarity. She believes that anarchist should form organizations, ideally

659
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 3: one big federation to coordinate, but obviously she's into groups

660
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 3: maintaining their autonomy. She's also against people going all out

661
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 3: all the time. She said, quote to sacrifice oneself is

662
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 3: easier than to work constantly, steadily achieving defined goals.

663
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: God, that's such an important point yep.

664
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you can look at someone like her and

665
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:42,959
Speaker 3: be like, oh, wouldn't it be great if we could

666
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 3: just go all out and then die tragically suddenly? And

667
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 3: she's pointing out that it's like, well that's almost the

668
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 3: easy way, you know.

669
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the actual the hard thing is surviving

670
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 2: and doing the work. Yeah. Yeah, it's this Yah at

671
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 2: this point, I make we talk about this in the

672
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: three weeks that we spent on g Gordon Liddie, Like

673
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 2: this like very understandable but also toxic. And it's not

674
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 2: I think it's it's masculine coded. Not that men are

675
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 2: the only or you know, males are the only people

676
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 2: who have this desire, but it's very much deeply within

677
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 2: kind of what we consider to be like traditional masculinity,

678
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 2: that this like hope that like if I could just

679
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: throw my body away in some in a moment of

680
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 2: desperate heroism, that's so easy, yeah, compared to being a

681
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 2: good person over the long haul.

682
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and being a good person when thing when it's

683
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,919
Speaker 3: hard to be a good person. Yeah, and like yeah,

684
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 3: no absolutely and yeah. And so hearing that attitude from

685
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 3: her surprised me and impressed me. And it was only

686
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 3: surprising because it's just like, well, she's the I mean,

687
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 3: it is shocking she has lived this long, she has

688
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 3: been she was a teenage terrorist and then she has

689
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 3: been in a war. At this point, first in World

690
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 3: War One in the trenches on the Western Front. Uh

691
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: maybe a dead not on the Western front of mind,

692
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 3: actually sure which where she was fighting.

693
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 2: But you know she was in the trenches in the

694
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 2: It wasn't it good front to be in in that war? Yeah,

695
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: all of the fronts were rough.

696
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. It was the first time machine guns met mass war.

697
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, there was that one Christmas party that

698
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 2: was pretty nice. Otherwise all a bad time.

699
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay. And then the other thing that she

700
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 3: said that really I like about her. She said that

701
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 3: in Moscow, quote, for example, in Moscow itself, we should

702
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 3: create a whole network of vegetable gardens on a communist basis.

703
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 3: This would be the best means of agitation among the people,

704
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 3: people who are in essence anarchists, Like I would say

705
00:36:54,560 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 3: that now, like that's like a very modern, common, peaceful like, hey,

706
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 3: let's show people that anarchy works by setting up gardens

707
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 3: and feeding people.

708
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 2: Like fuck, yeah, yeah, I uh that is my favorite. Yeah, No,

709
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 2: I like that. That's that's good lived anarchy. Yeah, setting

710
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: up gardens and feeding people. Sometimes again, it's enough to

711
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 2: admit I don't know how to save the world, So

712
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 2: I'm just going to do something that I can't fuck up,

713
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 2: and like setting up a garden really hard to harm

714
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 2: anybody by doing that.

715
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 3: Like distributing food is a good thing to do.

716
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's it's a good thing that like,

717
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 2: if you can't think of anything else to do, find

718
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: someone who needs a meal and get it to them. Yeah.

719
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 2: There's no way for the world to not be a

720
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 2: little bit better after doing that. And that's enough as

721
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: long as you don't confuse yourself into thinking that like

722
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 2: this is how we fix all of the problems, right,

723
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 2: it is the underpinning solution to all of the problems,

724
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 2: which is like looking for a need and then filling it.

725
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, much like we had a need to go

726
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 3: to an AD break, and now I'm going to go

727
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 3: to an ad break. Yeah, right now, and we're back. Yeah.

728
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 3: And so she's waiting trial. The trial starts, she's a

729
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 3: character witness when she's accused of banditry, who said all

730
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 3: she had she gave away, even to comrades she barely knew.

731
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 3: She wouldn't keep a kopek for herself. She gave away everything. Also,

732
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 3: this is where we learned that she's fucking straight edge.

733
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: She never drank Wow. Yeah, that's that's hard just as

734
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 3: a normal person, particularly as a Ukrainian living through yesperiod.

735
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, like no shade to anyone knew as cclusion.

736
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 2: It's just hard to get through a nine to five

737
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: without drinking occasionally, let alone the Russian Civil War.

738
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, they found her guilty. They found her guilty of quote,

739
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 3: discrediting Soviet power, which you know she was guilty of.

740
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm true, Like, they're not wrong. If they didn't come,

741
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 2: I think the punishment, whatever it was, is not going

742
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 2: to be right. But that's not inaccurate.

743
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 3: Sure, they're afraid to punish her like they want to,

744
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 3: and so they don't. They absolutely could have ordered her

745
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 3: executed and like it was like and did a lot

746
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 3: of times. Yeah, yeah, they didn't. They acquitted her on

747
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 3: charges of pillaging and they sentenced her to basically you

748
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 3: can't be a military commander probation for six months.

749
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 2: Ah okay, I'll bring that back as a punishment.

750
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 3: I know, but is like almost death.

751
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 2: You know.

752
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 3: She is not happy about this, so she fucks off

753
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 3: down to Gulie Poia to see what her Budon Makno

754
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 3: is up to. And here's where they start disagreeing more

755
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 3: actively these two. When Mariucia gets down to Guliapoya, she

756
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 3: finds the start of a new society and anarchist society.

757
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I just found out that the Macno

758
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 3: Museum in Guliapoya has been destroyed in the current Russian invasion.

759
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:15,919
Speaker 2: Well, I hope they got a machine gun or two

760
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 2: out of it to use.

761
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 3: I hope so too.

762
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: I think it's a pretty good chits.

763
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And so she goes down there and she

764
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 3: sees this anarchist society, but it's one that's struggling against

765
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 3: his own contradictions. How do you have a new society

766
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 3: in the middle of a war. How do you negotiate

767
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 3: how that new society is kind of run by one guy?

768
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 3: How do you not piss off the Bolsheviks while also

769
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 3: refusing to follow their orders? How do you keep soldiers

770
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 3: from doing war crimes and pograms and rape and murder.

771
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 3: They were really trying during that struggle. They were trying

772
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 3: to keep their moral head above water and not drown

773
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 3: in the war. Mariusia found an anarchist society organized by

774
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 3: a regional congress of peasants that had declared the land

775
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 3: belongs to nobody, and the only ones who can use

776
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 3: it are those who work it. In the village of

777
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 3: Gouie Pulliem, they're all kinds of new schools and hospitals

778
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 3: and shit, all built by workers. And this actually runs

779
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 3: counter to what I had thought and what I had

780
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 3: maybe heard before. She also found that the anarchists didn't

781
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 3: do mandatory conscription. Makinuvcino was not a mandatory conscription. Military

782
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 3: defended area enlistment was voluntary, and this worked. People were

783
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 3: signing up to fight, like without machine guns at their

784
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 3: back if they refused to do it because they're fighting

785
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 3: for something. They had thirty thousand fighters with seventy thousand

786
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 3: reserves at the beginning of nineteen nineteen. This is like

787
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 3: way before their peak. I think they actually like had

788
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 3: too many people offering to go fight. The biggest problem

789
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 3: they had is that they needed industrial production of arms.

790
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 3: So a lot of people who are like, I want

791
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 3: to go fight, They're like, could.

792
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 2: You make guns instead?

793
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 3: We really need people to make guns.

794
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

795
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 3: But the biggest contradiction happening at this point, at least

796
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 3: from Mariusi's point of view and or the historians I'm

797
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 3: reading talking about all of this is that Makno is

798
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 3: trying really hard not to piss off the Bolsheviks. He

799
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 3: doesn't want to be invaded by them. He's trying to

800
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 3: fight the whites. And here comes Mariusia, who's clearly pissed

801
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 3: off the Reds, and so he's like, look, I'm going

802
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 3: to respect that sentence. I'm you can't be a commander

803
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 3: here either until your six months are up. And she

804
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 3: tried to speak up at a meeting and be like,

805
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 3: here's what's going on in Moscow, blah blah blah, but

806
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 3: she didn't wait her turn or something, and he basically

807
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 3: shouted her down and was like, if the Reds had

808
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 3: convicted you, they must have had a good reason to

809
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 3: do it, and we don't. Makno didn't write that into

810
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 3: his journals, but a different anarchist president at that meeting

811
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 3: from the Maknevchina did the Reds. At this point, the

812
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 3: Bolsheviks are being full shitty war communism assholes in the

813
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 3: areas they control. They're requisitioning food from peasants, They're burning

814
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 3: down the houses of anyone refuse. The Whites are, of course,

815
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 3: way worse. They kill one hundred thousand Jews in pokegrams.

816
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,439
Speaker 3: They burn whole villages to the ground like that, rape

817
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 3: and conscription everywhere the White Army goes, which actually is

818
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 3: it leads to a lot of Later They're going to

819
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 3: do a lot of like uprisings within the White Army.

820
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 3: And the reason they're able to do that is the

821
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 3: White Army or all conscripts who really don't want to

822
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 3: be in the White Army. As a fun side note,

823
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 3: Makno is married I think twice during the Civil War,

824
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 3: and his second wife was a machine gunner who personally

825
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 3: executed any anarchist soldier who committed rape.

826
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 2: Hey, that's a good thing, to good reason to personally

827
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 2: execute somebody I know.

828
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 3: I know. Also like I can imagine wanting to marry her. Hello,

829
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 3: machine gunner who kills other rapists?

830
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 2: What's up?

831
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 3: Do I hang out? If you're still around, you're a

832
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 3: vampire lady to hit me up on Twitter. So anyway,

833
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 3: Macinno is still playing nice with the Bolsheviks on some level.

834
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 3: So is Nikki Farova. She actually talks to them and

835
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 3: gets her sentence reduced to three months, but while she

836
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 3: gets back to the fight soon enough, she doesn't do

837
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 3: it with any connection to the Bolsheviks. Ever, again, she

838
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 3: may or may not have been working for the Makhnov

839
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 3: China and what she is about to do. Sources conflict

840
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 3: about that, but she was working probably as part of

841
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 3: the anarchist spy agency, the contras Vedka, which we're going

842
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 3: to talk about on Wednesday. Excellent, that's my cliffhanger because

843
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 3: I'm really excited about the anarchist spy agent.

844
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 2: Say yeah, so am I, let's get to that story tomorrow,

845
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 2: by which I mean roughly ten minutes from now. But yeah, yeah,

846
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 2: all right.

847
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 3: Well, Robert Evans, you've got anything you want to plug.

848
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 2: Well, we have a new podcast called sixteenth Minute of Fame.

849
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 2: It's about what happens after somebody becomes the main character

850
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 2: of the entire internet with the great Jamie Loftus, who

851
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 2: is only accused of has not been proven to have

852
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 2: killed anybody in Grand Rapids, Michigan. No, no, no hard

853
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 2: evidence either way on that game.

854
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 3: And actually not accused by any court of law, just

855
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 3: by not accused, friends and podcast fellow podcasters, who should.

856
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 2: Look, it's not an allegation if you just say that.

857
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people are talking about the Hammer

858
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 2: murders that some people say Jamie committed, but not me.

859
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 2: Not mem sixteenth minute of Fame, everybody.

860
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 3: I listened to the first episode the other day and

861
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 3: I was like, I'll listen to anything. Jamie doesn't be

862
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 3: really happy about it, but I was like, how am

863
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 3: I about to listen to like an hour about a

864
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 3: guy who said some stuff on Twitter or on the

865
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 3: internet in twenty twelve. It was really good. It was

866
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 3: really good, my attention deeply the entire time, learned some stuff,

867
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 3: very into it.

868
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, check that out, everybody, Yeah.

869
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 3: And uh, see you all on Wednesday. Cool People Who

870
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 3: Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

871
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: Or more podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit our website

872
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

873
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.