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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big

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Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they

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Speaker 1: mean for our psychology.

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Speaker 2: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to

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Speaker 2: the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in

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Speaker 2: the world, it is as always so great to have

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Speaker 2: you here. About a quarter of us are struggling with

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Speaker 2: our mental health in some way, whether it's a very

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Speaker 2: present thing in our day to day life or just

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Speaker 2: kind of always there sitting silently in the background. That

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Speaker 2: means that, basically, if you were to select four people

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Speaker 2: in your office, at your workplace, on your train this morning,

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Speaker 2: in a classroom, you know, if you were to select

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Speaker 2: four people from a random friendship group or from a family,

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Speaker 2: one of them would have a story about the way

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Speaker 2: their mental health is a present figure in their life

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Speaker 2: or something that they've dealt with. It's kind of a

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Speaker 2: startling number when you think about it, twenty five percent

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Speaker 2: of people, but it's also very much true. Here's the

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Speaker 2: thing though, for that one in four each of those

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Speaker 2: people would have about you know, the averages five to

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Speaker 2: five to ten close friends, about fifty percent of them

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Speaker 2: would have a partner. Most of us have some family

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Speaker 2: that we would be close to. And so though you know,

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Speaker 2: although it's one quarter of us who may be struggling

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Speaker 2: with our mental health, and you know, in what feels

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Speaker 2: like a very solitary experience, there are millions, if not

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Speaker 2: billions more who see someone they love hurting, struggling, persevering,

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Speaker 2: and they want to help, but sometimes just don't know

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Speaker 2: how to because who has ever taught them? When was

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Speaker 2: that really ever included in a school curriculum, When was

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Speaker 2: that a priority to teach us as children, or as

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Speaker 2: teenagers or ever, how to help someone we love when

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Speaker 2: they're struggling with their mental health. So, today, my lovely listeners,

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Speaker 2: that is exactly what we're talking about. Whether it is

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Speaker 2: someone that we're dating, someone that we're in a relationship with,

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Speaker 2: a friend, a family member, how do we help them

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Speaker 2: with their own private struggles and battles that we just

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Speaker 2: don't really know much about, that we don't have a

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Speaker 2: guidebook to even when we try our hardest to do

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Speaker 2: our best, it can really be quite scary being this situation.

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Speaker 2: I want to just say that first, like upfront first,

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Speaker 2: and foremost, because every fiber of you wants to fix

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Speaker 2: what's going on. You see their distress, you want to

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Speaker 2: get rid of it, You want to find some way through,

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Speaker 2: But we just don't know how, and sometimes it's just

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Speaker 2: not something that we're capable of. But we still want

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Speaker 2: to be there for them, and we still want to

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Speaker 2: love them, and we probably still want the relationship to

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Speaker 2: to thrive and to survive despite what's going on. So

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Speaker 2: today I want to give you seven of my biggest

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Speaker 2: tips that I've learned from the people who have honestly

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Speaker 2: showed up for me, what I needed during times when

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Speaker 2: my mental health wasn't great, what I wish people had known,

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Speaker 2: but also what they did really really well, and also

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Speaker 2: things that I've learned from the times when I've been

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Speaker 2: the support system for someone else who is struggling. I

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Speaker 2: feel like a lot of this comes down to personal experience,

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Speaker 2: but also some of the psychologies, some of the more

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Speaker 2: therapeutical recommendations. We're going to discuss the best ways to

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Speaker 2: educate yourself, to listen, to keep yourself well, how to communicate,

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Speaker 2: how to advocate for your loved one. This is just

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Speaker 2: like such an important topic for me just because of

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Speaker 2: the honestly egregious lack of resources that we typically have,

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Speaker 2: but also because I think I would have benefited from

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Speaker 2: this information at times, both in terms of how I

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Speaker 2: would have wanted to communicate my needs to people, but

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Speaker 2: also kind of wanting to know how to help someone

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Speaker 2: that I love. So I'm hoping that you can come

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Speaker 2: back to this, this can kind of be a reference

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Speaker 2: point for you when you're wading through some pricky waters

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Speaker 2: trying to figure out the best way to go about things.

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Speaker 2: We're going to keep this intro shorten swee. I realized

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Speaker 2: that I've been kind of rambling for a while and

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Speaker 2: just really get into what is useful here. Some practical advice,

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Speaker 2: some useful reminders, some things that you may not know

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Speaker 2: or you haven't thought about when it comes to loving, supporting,

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Speaker 2: caring about someone who is going through it with their

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Speaker 2: mental health. So, without further ado, let's go. Let's talk

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Speaker 2: through my five biggest pointers and pieces of advice that

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Speaker 2: I give people when they ask me how do I

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Speaker 2: make life easier for the person I love who is

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Speaker 2: struggling with their mental health? Where exactly do I start?

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Speaker 2: What do I do? The biggest thing you can do

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Speaker 2: and the best place to start is to educate yourself.

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Speaker 2: I know that sounds super super simple, but it does

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Speaker 2: involve a bit more than just reading a Wikipedia page

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Speaker 2: that lists the definition of anxiety or depression or ORZD

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Speaker 2: from the nineteen hundreds and like three to four symptoms.

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Speaker 2: I want you to actually do some digging. What's the pathology,

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Speaker 2: what's happening in their mind that creates this reality for them,

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Speaker 2: what's the biology, what are the reactions the contributors? You know,

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Speaker 2: I want you to be able to write me like

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Speaker 2: a report on this. When they're panicking, when they're overstimulated,

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Speaker 2: when they're coping with a depressive episode, what does that

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Speaker 2: actually mean? What is the science, what does the psychology?

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Speaker 2: Get as much information as you can, firstly, so that

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Speaker 2: you can act from an informed place. You can take

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Speaker 2: on the thinking for them in a crisis or in

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Speaker 2: a tough situation because you kind of know what is

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Speaker 2: happening on a more neurological or on a more I

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Speaker 2: don't know, unconscious level. But secondly, sometimes feeling seen is

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Speaker 2: really all that people want. You don't have to have

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Speaker 2: the answers, it's just the fact that you tried and

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Speaker 2: you went looking for them. That is more than enough.

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Speaker 2: From personal experience, I will say that it is so

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Speaker 2: validating when the person you love takes time to understand

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Speaker 2: all the things that make you you, even the things

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Speaker 2: that on a personal level are quite vulnerable and hard

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Speaker 2: to show people because oftentimes I think the most exhausting

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Speaker 2: thing to do in the moment when life is like

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Speaker 2: really really hard, you're in an episode, your symptoms are spiking,

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Speaker 2: is to have to give a reason for why this

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Speaker 2: is happening, or to try and find the patience or

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Speaker 2: the mental energy to explaint step by step, you know

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Speaker 2: what's occurring in your brain, what does this feel like?

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Speaker 2: What's actually happening. So coming to the table, even with

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Speaker 2: just knowledge, is already doing fifty percent of the work

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Speaker 2: for them. I remember having a panic attack in front

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Speaker 2: of a partner once an ex partner, and you know

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Speaker 2: our relationship didn't end up. You know, it ended pretty poorly,

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Speaker 2: I will say, but I will always remember this time.

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Speaker 2: Really it's quite a special memory for me, and having

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Speaker 2: this panic attack and really not doing well, and he

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Speaker 2: like pulls out this explanation about what exactly is happening

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Speaker 2: to my body, and he carefully and calmly explains it

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Speaker 2: to me. He explains the reactions in my amig deala,

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Speaker 2: he explains the Nora pinephron running through my veins and

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Speaker 2: what my heart rate is doing. And having all that

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Speaker 2: information being presented to me quite rationally without having to

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Speaker 2: call in it myself was so special. And seeing how

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Speaker 2: committed he was to really getting it and getting what

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Speaker 2: I was going through was so soothing. So, like I said,

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Speaker 2: obviously we're no longer together, and you know, the relationship

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Speaker 2: ended pretty poorly, but it is a pretty special memory

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Speaker 2: and it was definitely one of those times when my

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Speaker 2: standards for friendship, for future relationships, for really everyone in

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Speaker 2: my life increased. I will say, as much as scientific

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Speaker 2: almost textbook information and knowledge is really fantastic, and I

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Speaker 2: think we can all really benefit from a deeper understanding

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Speaker 2: of all the things that have flicked our brains. It

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Speaker 2: is just the first step. Part of educating yourself also

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Speaker 2: means listening to your partner when things are settled down,

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Speaker 2: when the time is right, and when they have the

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Speaker 2: mental space to teach you about their specific experience. There

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Speaker 2: are things your partner can tell you about themselves and

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Speaker 2: whatever is racing through their mind or impacting their reality

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Speaker 2: that no one has ever written down before, that no

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Speaker 2: one could know, that none of us could see. Because

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Speaker 2: it is so individual, there really is no guidebook when

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Speaker 2: it comes to caring and supporting someone you love, because

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Speaker 2: mental health is truly different for everyone. Of course, here

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Speaker 2: I am speaking about what you can do, but something

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Speaker 2: that I really want to impress upon you is that

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Speaker 2: every person who is struggling with a mental illness, a

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Speaker 2: mental condition, mental affliction, whatever it is, is going to

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Speaker 2: experience that almost just insanely differently from the next person.

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Speaker 2: There will be some general things that are the same. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: there are criteria that you need to meet in order

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Speaker 2: to be diagnosed. There is a general set of categories

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Speaker 2: that people fall into. But if you were to take

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Speaker 2: one person with who had been diagnosed with depression and

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Speaker 2: compare them to another person, it's still going to be different.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's still going to have a different This

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Speaker 2: person's going to have a different origin story for you know,

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Speaker 2: the first time they experienced a depressive episode. They're going

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Speaker 2: to have different sets of particularities or patterns of thoughts,

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Speaker 2: or ways of responding or behaviors. I really want us

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Speaker 2: all to remember that our brains have I think it's

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Speaker 2: like twenty five quadrillion neural pathways. That is not even

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Speaker 2: a number that any of us can comprehend. It's more

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Speaker 2: stars in the milky Way, more people then will ever

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Speaker 2: be on this earth. That is how many different connections

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Speaker 2: and pathways are in each of our brains. So the

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Speaker 2: same way that none of our personalities or our realities

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Speaker 2: are the same. Even in one person's experience with their

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Speaker 2: mental health is going to be as unique as they are.

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Speaker 2: Get to know their story. This is when I want

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Speaker 2: you to allow your girlfriend, your boyfriend, your loved one

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Speaker 2: to be your source of truth. The online resources might

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Speaker 2: say that anxiety or BPD looks one way. It might

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Speaker 2: look irrational or highly explosive or whatever it says. But

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Speaker 2: if they're saying to you that doesn't describe my experience,

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Speaker 2: trust their truth because generalizations and misjudging based on a

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Speaker 2: limited definition or information is actually one of the main

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Speaker 2: ways that we unintentionally uphold stigma, even if we don't

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Speaker 2: mean to. Some general rules here for listening to someone

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Speaker 2: speak about such hard topics is to firstly be open

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Speaker 2: to the moment and when your partner decides that it's

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Speaker 2: time to share, it's time to listen. And I know

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Speaker 2: if that sounds like kind of an impossible thing, like,

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Speaker 2: oh my gosh, what if I'm going on my way

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Speaker 2: to work, what if like something else is happening, I

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Speaker 2: get that. But it is so hard to talk about

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Speaker 2: mental health, even when you feel supported, even when you

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Speaker 2: think that this person won't judge you, because we have

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Speaker 2: been conditioned into staying silent about it, from everything to stereotypes,

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Speaker 2: to the media to personal experiences where we've been shut down.

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Speaker 2: It is so difficult to kind of get the courage

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Speaker 2: to be open about something so vulnerable. So if someone

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Speaker 2: is opening up to you of a text in person,

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Speaker 2: over the phone, if they are showing you this emotional

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Speaker 2: side that you know is rare for them to reveal,

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Speaker 2: and that not any random person is privy to that

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Speaker 2: is a privilege. So please try not to move on

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Speaker 2: to the next part of the conversation. Don't try and

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Speaker 2: bury it. Just be a sponge for a second. Just

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Speaker 2: be a sponge and absorb. Sometimes you just don't know

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Speaker 2: what to say. And I get that discomfort. It's a

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Speaker 2: very human discomfort to kind of be in this situation

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Speaker 2: where you're like, oh, I know that this requires me

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Speaker 2: to say something. I know I should be responding to

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Speaker 2: them opening up, but I just I don't want to

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Speaker 2: say the wrong thing. I get it. So I want

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Speaker 2: you to remember the golden rule here is just to

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Speaker 2: validate whatever they say. Your response is one of validation.

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Speaker 2: Either you say things like you know that must be

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Speaker 2: so typicult, that makes sense why you're so upset about this? Nope,

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Speaker 2: you're not overreacting. This is a tough situation. I'm here

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Speaker 2: for you. Take your time, have a few of those

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Speaker 2: up your sleeve, like literally, just put it all back

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Speaker 2: onto them and acknowledging their experience or ask questions that

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Speaker 2: create that positive emotional space for them to share more

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Speaker 2: things like I want to hear more about that if

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Speaker 2: you want to share, and what happened afterwards? How are

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Speaker 2: you feeling now? That is the golden rule. Well, actually

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Speaker 2: there's two golden rules, so I guess the golden and

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Speaker 2: golden and silver rule. The gold rule is to validate

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Speaker 2: as much as possible. The silver rule, I guess, is

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Speaker 2: just to listen more than you speak and try not

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Speaker 2: to insert yourself into what they're experiencing by comparing your

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Speaker 2: experiences interrupting, or I think worse, but hardest of all,

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Speaker 2: thinking that what they're going through always comes back to you,

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Speaker 2: because a lot of the time it doesn't. If someone

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Speaker 2: is anxious, if someone is upset, frustrated, irritated, Sometimes our

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Speaker 2: tendency is to see their emotions and feel threatened by them, like, Oh,

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Speaker 2: are they mad at me? Are they anxious about our relationship?

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Speaker 2: Is this what it's all about? I get the inclination.

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Speaker 2: Just pause for a second. If it was about you,

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Speaker 2: trust them to say something. People with mental health concerns

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Speaker 2: can stand up for themselves like they're not weak or

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Speaker 2: confused or deceitful or anything of the sort. If it

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Speaker 2: was about you, they would say so. But often you

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Speaker 2: are part of the solution for them rather than the problem.

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Speaker 2: That is why they are trusting you with this information,

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Speaker 2: because they see a future. They want you to know

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Speaker 2: them deeply and intimately, so just try not to jump

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Speaker 2: to conclusions about what they're feeling or who or what

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Speaker 2: it's towards. This brings me to my next point. Don't

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Speaker 2: always assume that you know what's best, and instead really

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Speaker 2: learn how they most like to be treated or helped

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Speaker 2: through a tough moment, because again it's very individual and

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Speaker 2: it may be different to what you may need. The

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Speaker 2: first instinct that we have when we see someone we

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Speaker 2: love in pain, suffering, panicking is to immediately jump into action.

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Speaker 2: That shows you have a deep bond when their pain

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Speaker 2: is your pain. It's also reflective of the existence of

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Speaker 2: these things called mirror neurons between you two, which are

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Speaker 2: basically connections in your brain that match the connections in

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Speaker 2: theirs on a neurological level. These mirror neurons were first

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Speaker 2: observed actually in monkeys who had these really really complex

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Speaker 2: social bonds that meant that sometimes these primates could feel

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Speaker 2: each other's pain quite literally. But there was this groundbreaking

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Speaker 2: research in twenty twenty two, only two years ago, which

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Speaker 2: is such a short time when it comes to science,

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Speaker 2: and it found these same neurons first identified in the

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Speaker 2: monkeys were also present in you and I. The existence

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Speaker 2: of mirror neurons means that when you see someone you

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Speaker 2: love or you're connected to struggling, you will sometimes feel

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Speaker 2: some of that same tension, stress, even sensory pain that

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Speaker 2: they do. And this really makes you want to do

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Speaker 2: something for both of your sakes. Pause for a second,

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Speaker 2: you might have all the love in the world, there

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Speaker 2: are just some things you can't fix, especially in the moment,

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Speaker 2: So you don't need to be the solution for them.

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Speaker 2: Just provide them with what they need most from you

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Speaker 2: to help them get to not even a place of

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Speaker 2: looking for a solution themselves, but just to a place

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Speaker 2: of so friendly and calm and peace. What do they need?

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Speaker 2: What would they most want from you right now? And

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Speaker 2: if you don't know, the easiest way is to ask.

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Speaker 2: Some people prefer comfort, some people prefer solutions, silence, They

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Speaker 2: just want to be listened to. Typically, the three things

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Speaker 2: that people need most are known as the three h's.

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Speaker 2: Do you want to be helped, held, or heard? Basically,

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Speaker 2: just get to know your partner's processing language or style.

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Speaker 2: The same way that we have a love language, most

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Speaker 2: of us have an emotional processing language. Often it's a combination,

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Speaker 2: but at different times you do need different things. Do

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Speaker 2: you need to be able to physically express what you're feeling?

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Speaker 2: To create cregatively express what you're feeling. Do you prefer

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Speaker 2: intellectualizing problem solving verbally talking it out? Do you just

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Speaker 2: need silence? That's sometimes something that I need. Get to

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Speaker 2: know what is your partner's like first way, or your

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Speaker 2: friend or your loved one, what is the first way

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Speaker 2: they like to go about a problem or something that

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Speaker 2: they're going through. Is it just to sit with it

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Speaker 2: themselves or is it to do something? Let them kind

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Speaker 2: of guide you in what is best for them, because

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Speaker 2: they do know themselves best in this situation, and that

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Speaker 2: means that they are actually going to get the support

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Speaker 2: that they require from you. You know. I remember the

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Speaker 2: story of like my friend going through a really really

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Speaker 2: rough time and her boyfriend like clean their house, do

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Speaker 2: the dishes, do the groceries, so lovely from him, right,

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Speaker 2: And she was like, I don't know why, but I

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Speaker 2: was so frustrated about that because in my mind, I

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Speaker 2: was coming home and I wanted to have control over

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Speaker 2: this situation, and I wanted to do those chores. That

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Speaker 2: was going to be a way for me to like

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Speaker 2: work through the problems in my brain by working through

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Speaker 2: the things that needed to be done in the house.

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Speaker 2: Like that control was really what I needed in that moment,

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Speaker 2: and he kind of took that away from me. You

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Speaker 2: would never know that, right, You would never know that

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Speaker 2: he obviously was doing what he thought was best. But

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Speaker 2: sometimes the most meaningful thing is not what you think

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Speaker 2: is best. It's what the person actually requires. And I

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Speaker 2: know that it's just like the most simple principle, but

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Speaker 2: I think it's an important reminder to just ask. Honestly.

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Speaker 2: You could also make a list in your notes app

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Speaker 2: to remind you of what moods, what situations require what

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Speaker 2: from you, both from conversations with them and also from

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Speaker 2: noticing things in the moment. For me, I have a

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Speaker 2: list for myself when I'm panicking or just overwhelmed with

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Speaker 2: anxiety or going through like a real you know, down

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Speaker 2: period in my life. I have this list of like

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Speaker 2: it's almost up to twenty things that I know I

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Speaker 2: can do that I know I would need or could help.

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Speaker 2: Progressive muscle relaxation is one of them. Calling my boyfriend

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Speaker 2: and talking it out, taking a big walk in nature,

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Speaker 2: listening to a guide of meditation. And what's really really

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Speaker 2: valuable to me is that my partner has a similar

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Speaker 2: one of like, Okay, if this is what's happening, this

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Speaker 2: is what we need to do. This is like a

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Speaker 2: plan of attack. It's like an individualized guide book. And

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Speaker 2: I think we are at this stage in our relationship

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Speaker 2: where he knows that if I'm having a really, really

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Speaker 2: rough time, I really don't want to hear a solution

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Speaker 2: from him. I really don't need him problem solving for me.

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Speaker 2: As kind and beautiful and lovely as that is, I

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Speaker 2: actually need to be present in the crisis and fix

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Speaker 2: it myself. So him coming in and suggesting things is

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Speaker 2: just overwhelming and stressful. That is my perspective, That is

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Speaker 2: what I need. But for other people, they really do

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Speaker 2: need that rational voice outside of their head to say

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Speaker 2: something and to help them through whatever it is they're

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Speaker 2: going through. So just trying not to infantize your partner.

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Speaker 2: This is something I see a lot, and I get

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Speaker 2: people complaining about it to me a lot, Like why

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Speaker 2: does my boyfriend treat me like I'm stupid just because

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Speaker 2: I'm anxious? Why is everyone always asking me if I'm okay,

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Speaker 2: like I'm a little child. Why does my boss always

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Speaker 2: speak to me in hush tones? Why do people just

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Speaker 2: take over parts of my life thinking that I don't

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00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 2: know how to do it. Infantalization really occurs when people

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Speaker 2: with mental health concerns feel like because their brain works differently,

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00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,920
Speaker 2: they suddenly are seen as less capable or knowledgeable about

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Speaker 2: their own condition and their own life. People become overprotective,

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Speaker 2: They misjudge what they're able to do, and they think

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Speaker 2: they know better, which also contributes to that unsolicited advice

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00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 2: giving we spoke about earlier, or trying to problem solve

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00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 2: their lives to them when actually they can do it

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00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 2: themselves if you give them the support and the safety

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Speaker 2: net and the structures around that. Basically, just don't treat

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Speaker 2: your partner or your loved one child and you should

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00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 2: be all good. You should continue to have a respectful

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Speaker 2: two way relationship. Okay, we are going to take a

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Speaker 2: short break, but when we return, we'll discuss the three

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00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 2: final pieces of advice I have for you. When you're

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Speaker 2: supporting someone who is struggling, don't go anywhere, stay with us.

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Speaker 2: We'll be back after this short break. There is something

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Speaker 2: so beautiful about someone who respects your lived reality enough

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Speaker 2: to defend it even when you're not around. There is

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Speaker 2: something really, really beautiful about someone who doesn't ignore your

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Speaker 2: experiences and what you're going through even though it's not

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Speaker 2: directly impacting them. If you want to be a supportive

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Speaker 2: partner a supportive loved one, think about how you speak

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Speaker 2: about mental health when they're not around changing stigma, changing prejudice.

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Speaker 2: Advocating for mental health to be seen and to be

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Speaker 2: respected can't just be in the hands of the people

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00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 2: who are struggling. It's also up to the people who

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00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:12,159
Speaker 2: love them to really spark meaningful, positive change, to challenge

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Speaker 2: their own beliefs and the beliefs of those around them,

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Speaker 2: just to make the world a little bit safer. If

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Speaker 2: you hear someone say something that that's just plain wrong,

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00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,719
Speaker 2: say so. If you witness a policy in your workplace

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Speaker 2: that you know would make it harder for someone like

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00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 2: the person you love to show up in their job

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00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 2: or career, say something you know. If a relative is

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Speaker 2: deliberately being bigoted or judgmental, say something that is in

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Speaker 2: part your responsibility. I think make the world a little

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Speaker 2: bit softer and gentler for your loved one to enter.

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Speaker 2: I think in those moments when you stand up, you

396
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 2: speak out, you challenge what people might incorrectly believe or assume.

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Speaker 2: You're not just defending your loved one, you're also kind

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00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 2: of paving away for a future where they don't have

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00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 2: to fight those battles themselves, and that you know, where

400
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 2: they can be open and vulnerable about what they're going through.

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00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 2: You're basically just helping create a society where there is,

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Speaker 2: you know, where mental health is treated with the same

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00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 2: importance and dignity as physical health. And I think your

404
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 2: actions are a really powerful message not just to the world,

405
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 2: but to the people around you, to your close circle

406
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 2: who probably also interact with your loved one, that mental

407
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 2: health matters. It's not something to be swept under the rug.

408
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 2: It's not something to kind of cringe away from and

409
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 2: be like, Ooh, that's uncomfortable, that's strange. I don't want to,

410
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 2: you know, a se contagious, I don't want anything to

411
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 2: do about it. You're being very clear, like, no, this

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00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 2: is worth defending. I'm going to speak about this. I

413
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 2: care about this, and it deserves your respect. In doing so.

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00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 2: I think you just really contribute to a culture of

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00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 2: empathy and a culture of understanding, and it's one of

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Speaker 2: those most beautiful acts of love and true organic support.

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00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: I just think it's one of the most gorgeous things

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00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 2: that you can do, is to say, you know, I'm

419
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: not just going to support you in private, I'm going

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00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 2: to advocate for you in public. Whatever that means. It

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00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 2: also has the secondary consequence impact I guess of making

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00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 2: it feel like you're doing something when sometimes there's nothing

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00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: that you can really do for them in the sense

424
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 2: that you can't cure their mental health. You can't always

425
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 2: fix this problem, but you can make the world and

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00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 2: the systems that are in place around mental health more accessible,

427
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,239
Speaker 2: less discriminatory, less stigmatized. So I do think that you

428
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 2: get purpose from it. Even better, you get a sense

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00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 2: of agency, productivity, progress. You feel like you are doing

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00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 2: something for this person you love, when sometimes you can

431
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 2: feel quite powerless in the face of a very private

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00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 2: battle with mental health. So that's tip number three. For

433
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 2: this next tip, we are actually going to take a

434
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 2: step back from your partner, the person you love for

435
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 2: just a second and focus on you. I want to

436
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 2: validate you for just a moment. Seeing someone struggle elicits

437
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 2: a lot of weird, confusing feelings in us, Guilt that

438
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 2: we can't fix the pain, sometimes an assumption of responsibility

439
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: for their mental health, exhaustion, stress for them, for their wellbeing,

440
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 2: for their safety, and it can take its toll. I

441
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 2: know that you would do it no matter what. I

442
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 2: know that you probably don't feel like a hero for

443
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: just loving someone the way that they should be loved.

444
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 2: There's really no special award for that, but there have

445
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 2: been some really important studies showing that when we tend

446
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 2: to take on a lot of what our partner feeling

447
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 2: and managing, that can really bleed into our own emotional

448
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: state and it can impact our mood, our ability to cope,

449
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 2: our sense of optimism for the future, and it can

450
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 2: be really hopeless at times. And the complicated thing with

451
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 2: mental health is that the person experiencing it feels it alone.

452
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: It is an isolated experience. You cannot take the pain

453
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 2: from your brain and put it on the table and

454
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 2: let people touch it and feel it and understand what

455
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 2: it feels like for you. But you also do have

456
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 2: to watch them struggle, and you probably have your own

457
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 2: anxiety and worries about them that you end up managing alone.

458
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 2: You may even be dealing with your own mental health.

459
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 2: So as much as you want to be there everything,

460
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 2: you want to find the magic cure, as much as

461
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 2: you want to help, sometimes you just can't and you

462
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 2: need to fill your own cup. It's like they always

463
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 2: say this on planes, put on your own mask before

464
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: helping others. Sometimes we can get so concerned and wound

465
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 2: up in someone else's internal conflicts and pain that we

466
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 2: drop off of our own self care practices and we

467
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 2: stop pouring energy in our own lives. So that's really

468
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 2: tip number four. Time and space for yourself is a

469
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 2: non negotiable, and I want you and your partner to

470
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 2: be on the same page about that, whether it's you know,

471
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,479
Speaker 2: an afternoon a day just for you, whether you have

472
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 2: boundaries around when you can kind of take on the

473
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 2: mental load. Basically, I think any point where you feel

474
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: extreme tension, you feel things tearing, you feel yourself getting

475
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 2: really really stressed, or you feel like your relationship isn't working,

476
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 2: that is where a boundary is required. Discomfort is the

477
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 2: biggest indicator that a boundary is needed in that space.

478
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 2: Sometimes that feels really really hard when you just love

479
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 2: them so much and you don't want to let them down,

480
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: you don't want to say no, you don't want to

481
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,959
Speaker 2: make them feel silenced. But it does actually mean that

482
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 2: taking space for yourself now means you can continue to

483
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 2: show up for them into the future. It's also really worthwhile.

484
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 2: I think having a confident yourself, whether that's a therapist,

485
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 2: a sibling, an anonymous support group, a really trusted friend.

486
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: And the thing is is that you don't have to

487
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,479
Speaker 2: go into like extreme detail of like, yeah, my girlfriend Jenny,

488
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 2: like this is exactly what happened at two pm LAS

489
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 2: yesterday afternoon, and this is the medication she's taking, and

490
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 2: this is her entire history, her mental health history. You

491
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 2: don't have to do that. You can focus on how

492
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 2: the situation is making you feel, and you can get

493
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 2: the support that you require. A reminder, I think that

494
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 2: it's not selfish to know your limits. It's not selfish

495
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 2: to know how much you're able to take on what

496
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: you can and can't carry. In fact, I think it's

497
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 2: incredibly self aware and loving to know what works for

498
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 2: you and to want to be able to care and

499
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 2: love your friend, your sibling, your partner, your mom, whoever

500
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: it is, for as long as possible without that taking

501
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 2: a toll on you and your relationship, or minimizing the

502
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: toll that it can take on your relationship. This may

503
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 2: also be hard to hear it, and I know some

504
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 2: people might not like me for saying this, but it's

505
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: also okay to leave the relationship when you are noticing

506
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 2: an effect on your own mental health when their mental

507
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 2: health is creating behaviors that aren't okay, that are unhealthy

508
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: for you or for them, even if you know it

509
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 2: isn't something that they can control, because I think feeling

510
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 2: obligated to stay just because of their mental health or

511
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 2: feeling guilty for leaving is the only motivation for staying. Firstly,

512
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: it creates a really unbalanced dynamic in your relationship of like, well,

513
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: I'm only staying with you because of your mental health.

514
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: It's kind of like, well, you have no incentive to

515
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 2: improve because then I'll leave you if you get what

516
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: I'm saying. So it's unbalanced first of all, but also

517
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: it's just not a great foundation for a relationship to

518
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: survive or for either of you to get better or

519
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 2: even you know, be the better versions of yourself to

520
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 2: be happy if the relationship is creating a really terrible

521
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 2: cycle for both of you, So it is okay to leave,

522
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 2: make the decision that is right for you, and then

523
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 2: you can start thinking, you know, what supports do they

524
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 2: have in place? How do I deliver this kindly? When

525
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: would be the best time to talk about this? Who

526
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: should maybe know beforehand? If that's also a consideration. I

527
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 2: know it's a really hard decision. But you're not a

528
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: bad person for prioritizing your health and your well being

529
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: first and foremost, because otherwise you have two people who

530
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: are just not doing very well, and that's more than

531
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: I think a relationship can sometimes take on. I want

532
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 2: to give you all some final rapid fire tips that

533
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: I hope stick in your brain for when you most

534
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 2: need them. It's someone supporting someone you love with their

535
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: mental health. First up, never give ultimatums. As much as

536
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 2: this may be harder for you, trust me, they know

537
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 2: they know what you're feeling, probably ten times what you're

538
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 2: going through, and if they could make it all go away,

539
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: if that was an option, they would have done it

540
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: a long time ago and in a heartbeat. And you know,

541
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 2: that's not to say that mental illness is like a

542
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 2: disease for which we should only be looking for a cure.

543
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is that this is something that

544
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 2: people can't necessarily change. It's wide into their brain, and

545
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: so asking them to fix it, asking them to get

546
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 2: better within a short period of time, to get it

547
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: all together, to find some way through. You know, it's

548
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: basically the equivalent of saying, actually, just hide this for me.

549
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: To make my life easier so I don't have to

550
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: deal with it, rather than let's find a way of

551
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 2: coping and healing together. Let's let this experience make us stronger.

552
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 2: Know you that you can lean on me, And ultimatum

553
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 2: basically just says, you know, cure yourself, fix yourself. But

554
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 2: actually that's not an option. So lie to me about

555
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: it and can seal things from me which is not

556
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: necessarily or even a tiny bit healthy. Secondly, know when

557
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: it's too much for the both of you and outside

558
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: help is needed. This probably, now that I'm thinking about it,

559
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 2: should have been tip number one. But even therapists, even psychiatrists,

560
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: even the most skilled, educated, wise people in the world,

561
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 2: do not act as the physicians or the psychologists for

562
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: their family members, or their friends or their partners, because

563
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 2: they know that the help that is needed goes beyond them.

564
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: You need a neutral, trained third party to be a confidant,

565
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 2: to offer support, assistance. You need something and someone beyond you.

566
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 2: You just can't be everything, but you can be the

567
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 2: one who encourages them to get the help they need.

568
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 2: Because there is trust in your relationship, they're going to

569
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 2: feel safe enough to take the next step they're going

570
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: to feel safe in the fact that you're the one

571
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 2: encouraging them and you wouldn't do anything that's going to

572
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 2: hurt them. Therapy is really, really hard if you've never

573
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: been before, and even when you have been before, like

574
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 2: it's a trick if you experience it's hard being so

575
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 2: open with someone at the beginning, especially since you know,

576
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 2: I think a therapy client therapist client relationship requires a

577
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: lot of trust, and trust is mainly a product of time,

578
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: So at the very beginning, it can feel awkward to

579
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: talk to a stranger basically about things that you may

580
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: have only ever told a partner or loved ones. But

581
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 2: there is a good reason why everyone recommends therapy and

582
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: why you should go, because, to be honest, it works.

583
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: If it's something that is accessible to you, really really

584
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 2: would recommend it. Finally, make time to still have a relationship,

585
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: even if that means adjustments. Your love has kind of

586
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 2: got to exist through this, and love does take effort.

587
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 2: The hardest thing, one of the hardest things that I've

588
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 2: recognized for people who have relationships in which one of

589
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 2: them is dealing with their mental health is to find

590
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 2: a way to still actively date each other even if

591
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: that looks differently. Mental health is always going to be

592
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 2: part of your dynamic. It might come and go and

593
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 2: sometimes be a lot quieter than at other times, but

594
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 2: it's still going to be present the same way that

595
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 2: a physical injury, a physical illness, a physical condition would be.

596
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 2: And I don't want that to be a scary thing

597
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 2: for you. I want you to remember why you're together,

598
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: even in dark times. I want you to still love

599
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 2: and celebrate this person and be celebrated yourself. I still

600
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 2: want you to make memories that bond you and actively

601
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 2: date each other so that this connection between you two

602
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 2: only becomes stronger throughout everything that you're going through. You know,

603
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 2: full on date nights might not always be on the cards.

604
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 2: Then maybe times when we're at capacity, we need space,

605
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 2: we need a night in. You don't want to socialize,

606
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: but find a night, a morning, a weekend every now

607
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 2: and again. When you focus on what's in the future,

608
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: you focus on YouTube, you focus on what's good, and

609
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 2: you nurture the connection that you know the reason you're

610
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: listening to this episode because you love them and because

611
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: you care about them, and because you want them to

612
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 2: get better, to feel better, to get back on their feet,

613
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 2: and I guess you also just want your love to last.

614
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 2: You want to do what's best by them, and I

615
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 2: think that that is a really beautiful commitment and a

616
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 2: sign of commitment to your relationship. I will also say,

617
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: I know I just said that's my final thing, but

618
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 2: one more thing. You're not always going to get everything right,

619
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: and I just want to give you the permission that

620
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 2: you need right now for that to be the case.

621
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 2: Even you know me, someone who talks about mental health

622
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 2: twice a week, daily, every probably like every single day,

623
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 2: I talk about mental health. I have mental health problems

624
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 2: of my own. I have family members with mental health problems.

625
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 2: There are still times when I'm just like, I really

626
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 2: don't know what to say in this situation, and I'm

627
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,479
Speaker 2: probably going to say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing.

628
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 2: But it's okay if you're doing it earnestly and from

629
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 2: a place of genuine curiosity and care, not everyone. I

630
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: think the thing to say about this is that mental

631
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 2: health is really really complicated that even the people who

632
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 2: are experiencing it don't always know what's going on. So

633
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,439
Speaker 2: the fact that you don't know what's going on either

634
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 2: means that you're probably in the same boat. So just

635
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 2: give yourself some grace and some forgiveness to just try

636
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 2: and when in doubt, like we said, golden rule, validate, listen, love,

637
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 2: and you'll be doing just fine. So thank you so

638
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 2: much for listening to this episode. If you've got this far,

639
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: I hope that you learned something. I hope that you

640
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 2: feel more equipped to show up in this situation to

641
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 2: provide kindness and love and care to this person that

642
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: you love. And yeah, if there's someone else that you

643
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 2: think needs to hear this episode, please feel free to

644
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 2: share with them. Make sure that if you did enjoy this,

645
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 2: leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify

646
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: wherever you're listening right now, and if you have something

647
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: you want to share, if you have more pointers, more tips,

648
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Speaker 2: anything that's on your mind, make sure you are following

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Speaker 2: us at That's Psychology Podcast on Instagram and you can

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Speaker 2: share your thoughts, feelings, requests for a follow up episode,

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Speaker 2: requests for another topic over there. Again, thank you for listening,

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Speaker 2: and until next time, stay safe, stay kind, and be

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Speaker 2: gentle with yourself. We will talk very very soon.