WEBVTT - The KILLDOZER Rampage

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck

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<v Speaker 1>and Jerry's here too, and it's just the three of

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<v Speaker 1>us rampaging away in podcast land. That's stuff you should know.

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<v Speaker 2>In case you didn't know well before we get started,

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<v Speaker 2>I think we should mention that there are still tickets

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<v Speaker 2>available for our show's coming up very soon in Chicago

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<v Speaker 2>on August seventh and Minneapolis on August eighth.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's gonna be pretty great. We're going to be

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<v Speaker 1>at the Auditorium in Chicago and we're going to be

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<v Speaker 1>at the State Theater in Minneapolis, and there are tickets

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<v Speaker 1>left and you can come see us. It's a great show.

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<v Speaker 1>We've gotten great feedback so far. Only like two people

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<v Speaker 1>have been like that sucked. Everybody else is like that,

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<v Speaker 1>it's pretty great. And you can go to stuff youshould

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<v Speaker 1>Know dot com and click on the tour page tour button,

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<v Speaker 1>and you can also go to link tree, slash sysk Live,

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<v Speaker 1>and both of those places will take you to sites

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<v Speaker 1>where you can buy legitimate tickets to come see us.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and those are both great cities for us. We

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<v Speaker 2>love going to Chicago and Minneapolis. I know it's been

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<v Speaker 2>a little while for Minneapolis, but we've had always had

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<v Speaker 2>great shows there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and we're not promoting Indianapolis because Indianapolis sold out,

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<v Speaker 1>so we'll see them as well. But you can't come

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<v Speaker 1>in if you haven't already bought your tickets. I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, you know, it's a Midwestern themed show, so

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<v Speaker 2>sort of Chicago adjacent, really Indianapolis adjacent. So they got

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<v Speaker 2>on it. They want to hear about their people.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. So yeah, come see us at the beginning

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<v Speaker 1>of August.

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<v Speaker 2>You guys, all right back to it?

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<v Speaker 1>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>Good one?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh you think so?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, thanks.

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<v Speaker 2>I appreciate you letting us do this one first because,

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<v Speaker 2>like I just announced to you, Yeah, I just watched

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<v Speaker 2>the documentary on this topic, Tread Tread, directed by Paul Solette.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's it's solet who knows we go with?

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<v Speaker 1>So?

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<v Speaker 2>Did you watch it?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes? I have, Actually I've seen it. I saw a

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<v Speaker 1>few years back. I haven't seen I didn't watch it

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<v Speaker 1>recently for this For.

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<v Speaker 2>Some reason, I think we covered this in like a

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<v Speaker 2>video or something like how do I know about this?

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<v Speaker 1>It was pretty big news, and I mean it's become

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<v Speaker 1>an Internet legend. Maybe we did do like an Internet

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<v Speaker 1>round up on it or something like that on the

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<v Speaker 1>tenth anniversary. Maybe I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that feels about right, But I guess we should

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<v Speaker 2>say what we're talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>Eh, sure, Oh, I'll do that then. Okay, So for

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<v Speaker 1>those of you who don't know, we're talking about an

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<v Speaker 1>event that took place in two thousand and four in

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<v Speaker 1>a little town called Granby, Colorado, about fifty miles west

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<v Speaker 1>of Denver, population two thousand ish. I think at the

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<v Speaker 1>time it's a small town, yeah, but it wasn't, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>an economically depressed town. It's like sixteen miles away from

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<v Speaker 1>the entrance to Rocky Mounta National Park. They're skiing around there,

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<v Speaker 1>so there's tourists. There's also rural ranchers that come into

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<v Speaker 1>shopping Granby. It's fine. It's just a cute, quinte small

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<v Speaker 1>mountain town like South Park basically.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. And it remained that way until June fourth,

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand and four, when a lot of this town

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<v Speaker 2>was destroyed by a man in a bulldozer that had

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<v Speaker 2>ended up being dubbed later on as the kill Dozer.

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<v Speaker 2>And we'll get to that later, right, But it was

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<v Speaker 2>a muffler shop owner, a fifty two year old guy

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<v Speaker 2>named Marvin he Meyer, Marv he Meyer, and he had

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<v Speaker 2>beefs with the town. He had beefs with people in

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<v Speaker 2>the town. We're going to go over all that stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>So he built or modified rather a gigantic bulldozer into

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<v Speaker 2>basically a tank and destroyed the places of the people

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<v Speaker 2>he had beefs with. More.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I left all that out of my introduction, so

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<v Speaker 1>I'm glad you filled it in. Yeah, you said it

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<v Speaker 1>was like a tank essentially in some ways, as we'll see,

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<v Speaker 1>it was actually superior to a tank. It was crazy

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<v Speaker 1>what this guy built. And if you have the time

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<v Speaker 1>and you're not driving right now, just go look up

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<v Speaker 1>killdozer and get a load of this modified bulldozer that

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<v Speaker 1>Marv he Meyer created. So, Chuck, I say, let's just

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<v Speaker 1>dive in. That was a pretty good little setup. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk about Marv he Meyern who he was. He was

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<v Speaker 1>known around town as Marv the muffler man, right.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, because he owned a muffler shop. Previous to that,

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<v Speaker 2>he was in the Air Force. Served in the Air Force,

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<v Speaker 2>was stationed in Colorado at Lowry Air Force Base, liked Colorado,

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<v Speaker 2>decided to literally set up shop there. And this is

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<v Speaker 2>in the early nineties. He moved to Grand Lake near Granby,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, pretty soon he got he started getting

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<v Speaker 2>his feathers ruffled, ruffling feathers in the town kind of

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<v Speaker 2>right away, it seems like, starting with having a beef

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<v Speaker 2>against the local newspaper, the sky High News.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so they introduced the concept of legalized gambling in

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<v Speaker 1>Grand Lake, which is pretty near grand By, and the

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<v Speaker 1>town was very evenly divided on it. The local newspaper,

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<v Speaker 1>the sky High News or one of the local newspapers

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<v Speaker 1>is another one in Grand Lake, came out very heavily

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<v Speaker 1>against legalized gambling. Marv was very heavily in favor of gambling,

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<v Speaker 1>so much so that he edited, i think two editions

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<v Speaker 1>of a newspaper that was created just to tout the

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<v Speaker 1>benefits of legalized gambling. And so he lost. Like the

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<v Speaker 1>I think they voted in the area, they voted four

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<v Speaker 1>to one against legalizing gambling, and it was a bitter defeat.

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<v Speaker 1>I think to Marv, he seemed like the kind of

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<v Speaker 1>person who did not accept defeat very well and that

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<v Speaker 1>it just trigged Stewing in him.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's fair to say, I think. And that was

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen ninety two. That same year is when he

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<v Speaker 2>bought some property that would be sort of at the

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<v Speaker 2>center of his next dispute. It was a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>acres in western Granby. He bought it at public auction

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<v Speaker 2>and foreclosure for a little more than forty grand, which

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<v Speaker 2>turned out to be a great deal. The guy had

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<v Speaker 2>a really good knack for finding good deals on stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what's funny that you remember the savings and loan scandal. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he actually bought it from the FDIC because it was

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<v Speaker 1>a failed savings and loan bank in town.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, including that big bulldozer that he would end up

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<v Speaker 2>getting a great deal on.

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<v Speaker 1>So that was a savings and loan bulldozer.

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<v Speaker 2>He had a nose for a deal. So he ended

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<v Speaker 2>up setting up his Mountain View muffler shop. There was

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<v Speaker 2>apparently a great welder stuff that he brought into the

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<v Speaker 2>Air Force. It seems like was just really good on

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<v Speaker 2>machines and motors and engines and welding, and worked for

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<v Speaker 2>a uffler shop for many years and finally was like,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to open up my own shop as this

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<v Speaker 2>is happening. There's another local family and this is one

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<v Speaker 2>of the two two main families that he had beefs with,

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<v Speaker 2>the dough Chef family, in particular the patriarch I guess

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<v Speaker 2>of that family, Cody Dochef with his wife Susie and

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<v Speaker 2>their son Joe, had a concrete factory and they were

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<v Speaker 2>trying to expand this factory, so they bought up they

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<v Speaker 2>wanted this property that Marv had bought. They bought up

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<v Speaker 2>a bunch of land around it still needed more space,

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<v Speaker 2>and tried to buy Marv's parcel from him that he

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<v Speaker 2>paid forty two thousand dollars for and initially they had

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<v Speaker 2>an agreement for two hundred and fifty grand which would

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<v Speaker 2>have been a really nice take on that land deal

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<v Speaker 2>for Marv.

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<v Speaker 1>It would have for sure. And apparently the dough Chefs

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<v Speaker 1>were at that auction that Marv bought it at and

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<v Speaker 1>he outbid them, so yeah, they were very interested in

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<v Speaker 1>this parcel of land. He agreed to that two hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and fifty thousand dollars deal later on, I think that

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<v Speaker 1>was eight years later, so that is a pretty significant

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<v Speaker 1>increase in your investment. And then but he changed his mind,

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<v Speaker 1>he decided that though land was worth more than two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty grand, apparently kept getting appraisals on it.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not like he was just saying, like, no,

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<v Speaker 1>it's worth a billion dollars, right. He supposedly got appraisals

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<v Speaker 1>and was like, this land is worth more than two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty grand. Now, so he said, He said,

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<v Speaker 1>he backed out of the deal. I don't know how

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<v Speaker 1>much how far the deal had gotten, but he definitely

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<v Speaker 1>backed out of an agreement to sell it for two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty grand.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he ended up asking four hundred. The dough chefs

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<v Speaker 2>came up with three point fifty, and he said, now

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<v Speaker 2>I want four to fifty again, he said, because of

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<v Speaker 2>another reappraisal. I don't I'm not sure about all that stuff, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm just basing off kind of what I

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<v Speaker 2>saw in the documentary and research. I hadn't seen the

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<v Speaker 2>appraisals or anything, So I don't know if Marv was

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<v Speaker 2>just like jacking this thing up or not. Who knows.

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<v Speaker 2>But while this is happening, at least, you know, one

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<v Speaker 2>of the things we have left to kind of piece

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<v Speaker 2>us all together is the series of audio tapes that

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<v Speaker 2>he made on cassette that he mailed to his brother.

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<v Speaker 2>So the documentary features a lot of those, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>just firsthand accounts from Marv detailing what's going on. And

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<v Speaker 2>one of the things he just he didn't like the

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<v Speaker 2>dough chefs. He said that Cody Docheff, and I guess

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<v Speaker 2>this was after he had backed out of I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>sure if it was after he backed out or not,

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<v Speaker 2>but Cody Docheff at one point basically accosted him in

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<v Speaker 2>a restaurant and that was one of their first exchanges

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<v Speaker 2>about this. And Cody Docheff was known as a real

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<v Speaker 2>hot head in town and Marv you should hear the

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<v Speaker 2>words that he calls him on those audio tapes. He

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<v Speaker 2>did not like this guy.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, that appraisal thing. That's a really good example of

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<v Speaker 1>the squishiness I guess of this story. It's really difficult

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<v Speaker 1>to pin down because, yeah, was he just jacking the

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<v Speaker 1>price up because he didn't like the doe Cheffs. Did

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<v Speaker 1>he really think that the land was worth that? Did

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<v Speaker 1>he really get appraisals? You don't know, But that kind

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<v Speaker 1>of thing completely changes the complexion of it. If he

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<v Speaker 1>was getting appraisals and the doe Cheffs wouldn't pay the

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<v Speaker 1>appraised value. That's pretty reasonable. If he was lying about

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<v Speaker 1>the appraisals and he was just jacking the price up

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<v Speaker 1>on the doe Cheffs, that kind of makes him look

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<v Speaker 1>like a jerk. And so that just something that small

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<v Speaker 1>can make a story like this totally due a one

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<v Speaker 1>point eighty. And this story is filled with those little

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<v Speaker 1>kind of details that have either gotten overlooked at it

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<v Speaker 1>or blown out in proportion.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, So they the dough Chefs end up buying

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<v Speaker 2>some other land, a business park, and they said, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>you give us the land where your muffler shop is,

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<v Speaker 2>and we'll give you the prime lot that's right on

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<v Speaker 2>the highway, this frontage land where muffler shop is going

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<v Speaker 2>to do a lot better, get a lot more attention.

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<v Speaker 2>And he said, all right, I'll take that deal, but

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<v Speaker 2>you've got to build this muffler shop for me, and

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<v Speaker 2>that a really expensive one and really kind of highend

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<v Speaker 2>muffler shop, I guess because that brought it up to

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<v Speaker 2>about a million bucks. And they said, no, you know

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<v Speaker 2>that muffler shop. Boy, how long were you waiting on

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<v Speaker 2>that one?

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<v Speaker 1>Good thirty seconds.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, I hope most people get that one. At least.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't matter as long as you've got it. Friend,

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<v Speaker 1>Oh I got it.

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<v Speaker 2>So they said no deal, and he said, all right,

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<v Speaker 2>then you basically started a war with me, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>gonna I'm going to do everything I can to fight

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<v Speaker 2>the city to make sure that you're not able to

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<v Speaker 2>open up that cement factory that you want to open up,

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<v Speaker 2>and apparently got a lot of people on the side.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a lot of opposition in the town that

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<v Speaker 2>back to Marv against this expansion of the cement or

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<v Speaker 2>concrete factory.

0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So what I don't understand is was there opposition

0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:08.880
<v Speaker 1>before Marv started this kind of grassroots campaign against it?

0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:12.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Yeah, so he didn't just drum that up out

0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:14.360
<v Speaker 1>of thin air, like not everybody was happy about a

0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:19.360
<v Speaker 1>concrete batch creating plant like this is almost in downtown Gramby.

0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there was opposition, but it seems like he really

0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:23.800
<v Speaker 2>fueled the fire.

0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.080
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Yeah, so now you have war between essentially what

0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:31.600
<v Speaker 1>amounts to two hotheads who are neighbors, and a concrete

0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:38.040
<v Speaker 1>plant is not like a tidy, quiet neighbor to be

0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.920
<v Speaker 1>next to, right, So I'm sure that every sound and

0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:42.920
<v Speaker 1>every clank and every bit of like dust that blew

0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:47.640
<v Speaker 1>his way just made him less and less happy. And

0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:49.440
<v Speaker 1>I guess I don't know. Also, if you said that

0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:53.679
<v Speaker 1>they were buying up the land around him, so ultimately

0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.400
<v Speaker 1>his muffler shop was the only little piece of parcel

0:12:56.520 --> 0:13:00.480
<v Speaker 1>left and they were literally building a concrete plant owned

0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.200
<v Speaker 1>his muffler shop. And one of the things if somebody

0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.199
<v Speaker 1>tells you this, they don't know what they're talking about,

0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.880
<v Speaker 1>and stop listening to them about this. If they tell

0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:10.880
<v Speaker 1>you that when the dough Chets bought the land up

0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.439
<v Speaker 1>around him, that they cut off access from the road

0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:18.760
<v Speaker 1>to Marv's muffler shop, basically created an island legally out

0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:22.160
<v Speaker 1>of his muffler shop, that's wrong. That's not correct. He

0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.840
<v Speaker 1>always had access and everyone always had access in and

0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:27.280
<v Speaker 1>out of his muffler shop. That's a really big point

0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:29.400
<v Speaker 1>that a lot of people basically say, See, the guy

0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.040
<v Speaker 1>had no choice, he couldn't he couldn't run a business

0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:33.360
<v Speaker 1>like that, and that's just not true.

0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:35.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that is not true, but that's something you see

0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.840
<v Speaker 2>a lot online. So thanks for clearing that up.

0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.400
<v Speaker 1>Sure you got anything else, what else you want me, Clear.

0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:47.440
<v Speaker 2>Up, I got a pimple on my shoulder here, No

0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:48.360
<v Speaker 2>take care of them.

0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:50.200
<v Speaker 1>Why did you say that?

0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh I don't. I don't get pimples. So Marv is

0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.640
<v Speaker 2>he's got another problem that's also brewing. So you've got

0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.319
<v Speaker 2>this problem with the dough chefs. Then you have the

0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:08.040
<v Speaker 2>second issue with the sewer line. In order. His property

0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.280
<v Speaker 2>wasn't hooked up to a sewer line. You've got to

0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.040
<v Speaker 2>get hooked up to a sewer line if you're going

0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.719
<v Speaker 2>to be in compliance. They kind of look the other

0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.960
<v Speaker 2>way for many many years when he didn't because it was,

0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, small town western Colorado. It was sort of

0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.000
<v Speaker 2>the wild West, and people would just sort of turn

0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:28.400
<v Speaker 2>a blind eye if someone was making do on their own,

0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.200
<v Speaker 2>which he was doing. But he also didn't have a

0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:37.160
<v Speaker 2>septic tank, so he started dumping sewage into his concrete mixer,

0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:42.480
<v Speaker 2>a concrete mixing tank, big violation. Then when that filled up,

0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.800
<v Speaker 2>he started pumping it into the irrigation ditch on the property.

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.840
<v Speaker 2>All he had to do was pay a little bit

0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.120
<v Speaker 2>of money at one point to hook up to some

0:14:53.160 --> 0:15:01.560
<v Speaker 2>neighboring sewer lines. But he basically thought that's over the town. Yeah,

0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.240
<v Speaker 2>that's the town holding me over a barrel. You shouldn't

0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.120
<v Speaker 2>have a resident or a business have to pay for

0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.960
<v Speaker 2>their own sewer line, which is a public utility.

0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:15.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So I don't know, like the town overlooked this

0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.000
<v Speaker 1>for a good decade, maybe twelve years something like that.

0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.440
<v Speaker 1>That he was pooping and peeing I guess into a

0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.000
<v Speaker 1>bucket or something and dumping it into a cement mixer,

0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.440
<v Speaker 1>even if they had a line up to the cemt mixer. Yes,

0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:30.240
<v Speaker 1>that's a huge health code violation. Right. So when that

0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:34.800
<v Speaker 1>concrete plant was built, they ran a sewer line to it, right,

0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:39.160
<v Speaker 1>and that made it way easier and way less expensive

0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:44.240
<v Speaker 1>for Marv Hemeyer to connect his muffler shop to that

0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.920
<v Speaker 1>sewer line that's now being run from the road to

0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.280
<v Speaker 1>this concrete plant next door. Then it would to have

0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:52.840
<v Speaker 1>the city run it from the road to just his

0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.400
<v Speaker 1>muffler shop. The problem was this is the Dochef's sewer

0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.000
<v Speaker 1>line and it was on their land and for him

0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:01.640
<v Speaker 1>to tap into it, he needed to pay them. So

0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.720
<v Speaker 1>they came back with an offer. They said, look, man,

0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.360
<v Speaker 1>if you drop all these lawsuits and all this campaign

0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 1>against us, we will we will let you will give

0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.760
<v Speaker 1>you an easement, a maintenance easement to connect to our

0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.560
<v Speaker 1>sewer line from your muffler shop free of charge. That

0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.080
<v Speaker 1>will be your little strip of land onto our land,

0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:22.760
<v Speaker 1>connecting your muffler shop to the main line. You'll be

0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:25.920
<v Speaker 1>in compliance, we won't have this lawsuit against us anymore,

0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.200
<v Speaker 1>and we'll just call it a day. And I don't

0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.000
<v Speaker 1>believe Marv ever made good on that.

0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.920
<v Speaker 2>No, he didn't want to do it. He was done

0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.680
<v Speaker 2>with him by that point, basically, so he was like,

0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.280
<v Speaker 2>screw this. I'm not hooking up to your sewer line.

0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm not paying the maybe as high as eighty grand

0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:47.880
<v Speaker 2>to run the four hundred feet to the main sewer line.

0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:52.720
<v Speaker 2>And so he wanted to sell the place. He's like,

0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:54.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm getting out, I'm getting out of this muffler shop

0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.960
<v Speaker 2>and I'm going to move. And the town then said, well, hey,

0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.800
<v Speaker 2>now that we know about all this, you can't even

0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.159
<v Speaker 2>sell this thing without a sewer line. So, all of

0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.879
<v Speaker 2>a sudden, he was caught between a rock and a

0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:11.000
<v Speaker 2>hard place there with this sewer connection. He refuses to

0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.320
<v Speaker 2>do it. He ends up being fined one hundred dollars

0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:16.800
<v Speaker 2>a day because of this sewage issue and other violations.

0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.280
<v Speaker 2>That were going on, like more than thirty three hundred bucks.

0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.320
<v Speaker 2>When he wrote the check to the town, he put

0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:27.040
<v Speaker 2>in the memo, it's for the Cowards and Liars Department.

0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.200
<v Speaker 2>So this is kind of where things were. This guy

0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.719
<v Speaker 2>is fighting back against the town. He's fighting against these people.

0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:36.320
<v Speaker 2>Whether or not you think it's fair that you have

0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.800
<v Speaker 2>to pay for your own sewer line or not, it's

0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.520
<v Speaker 2>the way it was. They weren't singling him out to

0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.880
<v Speaker 2>try and screw him over anything. That was just how

0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:48.280
<v Speaker 2>it works. I mean, I've had to replace sewer lines

0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.920
<v Speaker 2>and it stinks. It's the worst thing to have to

0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:51.280
<v Speaker 2>pay for.

0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.320
<v Speaker 1>It stinks literally and figuratively.

0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.760
<v Speaker 2>As a homeowner, it wrecks your yard or your property.

0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:03.159
<v Speaker 2>It wrecks it's it's awful because it's not. It's just

0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:06.440
<v Speaker 2>it's expensive. Have you ever had to do it? It

0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:10.800
<v Speaker 2>just writing that check. I've had to do it a

0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.200
<v Speaker 2>couple of times. It's awful. In the meantime, we need

0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.240
<v Speaker 2>to introduce another family, because he ended up having two

0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:20.000
<v Speaker 2>beefs with two prominent families, the do Chefs and then

0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:25.080
<v Speaker 2>the Thompson family, who were had been there forever thereby

0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:27.440
<v Speaker 2>owned tons and tons of the land in the town.

0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.879
<v Speaker 2>A guy named the elder Dick Thompson was on the

0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:34.240
<v Speaker 2>county board and then became mayor for a while back

0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:36.800
<v Speaker 2>when he was going through all this stuff in the nineties,

0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.119
<v Speaker 2>and then he passed away, and he took up this

0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.920
<v Speaker 2>beef with his two sons, basically saying like, you owe

0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.800
<v Speaker 2>me money because of all this stuff that your dad

0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:47.560
<v Speaker 2>and the town board made me go through.

0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:52.320
<v Speaker 1>One thing that I couldn't find, and it's one of

0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:54.720
<v Speaker 1>those things that could change the complexion of the whole stories.

0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.800
<v Speaker 1>At what point did the sewer thing that the city

0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.679
<v Speaker 1>overlooked for a decade or so become a thing? You know?

0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.720
<v Speaker 1>Was it connected to the concrete plant? I don't know.

0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:09.040
<v Speaker 1>It's just just something that sticks out to me. Yeah,

0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:11.920
<v Speaker 1>So I guess what he did ultimately was he shut

0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:14.760
<v Speaker 1>down his muffler shop in two thousand and two and

0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:17.280
<v Speaker 1>he held an auction. He auctioned off all of his equipment.

0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:20.760
<v Speaker 1>He sold his property to a local trash company for

0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.639
<v Speaker 1>four hundred thousand, which I think what the highest he

0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.720
<v Speaker 1>had asked the dough Chuffs for for it. But he said,

0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:29.399
<v Speaker 1>I want to Lisa, this big old metal shed in

0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:31.440
<v Speaker 1>the back. I got to keep a place to keep

0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.560
<v Speaker 1>my bulldozer, because it's basically the only thing that no

0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.239
<v Speaker 1>one bought in the auction of my stuff. So I'm

0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:38.479
<v Speaker 1>just going to keep it back here and this will

0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.000
<v Speaker 1>be my little workshop. That's part of the deal. And

0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.280
<v Speaker 1>they shook on it, and that's the setup starting around

0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:45.080
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and two.

0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I'm also not sure how he was able

0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.240
<v Speaker 2>to sell that stuff or sell it given that he

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.600
<v Speaker 2>didn't put in the sewer line, because in the documentary

0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:57.280
<v Speaker 2>they said that the new owners this trash company, like

0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 2>within forty eight hours had the sewer line hooked up.

0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:02.919
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think the city was like, whoever, like,

0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:06.440
<v Speaker 1>this thing can't change hands without somebody agreeing that they're

0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:08.679
<v Speaker 1>going to put maybe the one And that's what I think.

0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:11.960
<v Speaker 1>You could probably work that into a legal document.

0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.840
<v Speaker 2>Probably. So should we take a break.

0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we'll take a break and go find out.

0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:21.480
<v Speaker 2>All right. We'll be right back after this with more

0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:44.040
<v Speaker 2>on the killdozer rampage.

0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.920
<v Speaker 1>All right. So remember Marvy Myer's gotten out of the

0:20:55.960 --> 0:21:01.080
<v Speaker 1>muffler business, but he's known around town as an excellent welder,

0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:05.119
<v Speaker 1>I mean, just a superior welder. And when he leased

0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.119
<v Speaker 1>that little maintenance shed. We'll probably not mate little. But

0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:10.880
<v Speaker 1>when he leased the big maintenance shed in the back

0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:13.120
<v Speaker 1>of the property that he had sold to the trash company,

0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:18.640
<v Speaker 1>he used it to modify the bulldozer that would later

0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:21.520
<v Speaker 1>become the killdozer. To start out with, it was a

0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:26.320
<v Speaker 1>sixty ton Komatsu D three P fifty five a bulldozer, right,

0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:29.760
<v Speaker 1>and I mean just as it came out of the

0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.920
<v Speaker 1>package it was sixty tons. This guy added at least

0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:35.280
<v Speaker 1>another twenty tons of reinforcement to it.

0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:40.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was. It's not like a little front loader

0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:43.280
<v Speaker 2>that you know your landscape person has brought over if

0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:46.960
<v Speaker 2>you've ever had your yard done or something dingo. This

0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:52.000
<v Speaker 2>is this was a very, very very large bulldozer, which

0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:54.240
<v Speaker 2>you can tell and when you see footage when there

0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.680
<v Speaker 2>are other bulldozers trying to stop it, and this Kamatsu

0:21:57.800 --> 0:21:59.679
<v Speaker 2>is is clearly clearly larger.

0:21:59.760 --> 0:21:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:03.080
<v Speaker 2>So he buys this thing at auction in California, has

0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.639
<v Speaker 2>it shipped in July two thousand and two, and starting

0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:08.760
<v Speaker 2>at the beginning of two thousand and three, And this

0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:10.600
<v Speaker 2>is one of the craziest parts of this whole story

0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.600
<v Speaker 2>to me, is that this wasn't a guy that got

0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:16.720
<v Speaker 2>mad and like had a plan and it sort of

0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:18.879
<v Speaker 2>fizzles out after a week or two when you're like,

0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:21.679
<v Speaker 2>all right, well, you know, maybe I'll just watch the

0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:25.280
<v Speaker 2>Broncos game and let cooler heads prevail. Like he spent

0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:31.800
<v Speaker 2>a year dedicated to this project with this idea, like

0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:35.159
<v Speaker 2>planning this thing and equipping this thing. He set up

0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:37.560
<v Speaker 2>a cot in a blanket and had a fridge. He

0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:43.479
<v Speaker 2>was basically living in this shed basically full time, working

0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:45.320
<v Speaker 2>on this thing at night so that people, you know,

0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:47.640
<v Speaker 2>this company that bought it, this trash company, they're all

0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:51.119
<v Speaker 2>around the place, right, Like an insurance adjuster came to

0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:54.159
<v Speaker 2>inspect the shed because it was on the property of

0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:56.560
<v Speaker 2>the trash company. He had it behind a tarp and

0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:59.240
<v Speaker 2>made up some story about how he was working on

0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:03.680
<v Speaker 2>some equipment like air conditioning for some professor, and like

0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:06.399
<v Speaker 2>no one ever looked behind it. It fit by an

0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:08.720
<v Speaker 2>inch on either side. And he thought this was all

0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:12.760
<v Speaker 2>God telling him all these little things that happened that

0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:15.840
<v Speaker 2>where he didn't get caught beforehand. He thought was God saying,

0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:17.440
<v Speaker 2>this is your mission.

0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:21.280
<v Speaker 1>Right, Marv he Meyer is a great example of why

0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:22.800
<v Speaker 1>we need wives.

0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:26.040
<v Speaker 2>Right. Well, he had a girlfriend for a long time,

0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:29.320
<v Speaker 2>and she was all over the documentary. It sounded like

0:23:29.359 --> 0:23:33.680
<v Speaker 2>she was Australian or from New Zealand maybe, but Tricia McDonald. Yeah,

0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:36.040
<v Speaker 2>that was kind of one of the sadder parts is

0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:38.000
<v Speaker 2>that she seemed like she really liked him, and she

0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:40.280
<v Speaker 2>was like, I kind of had no idea that he

0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:42.080
<v Speaker 2>was that angry and it was going this far.

0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:45.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if I remember correctly, she had a little bit

0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:47.639
<v Speaker 1>of self blame maybe going on, or at least wondering

0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:49.320
<v Speaker 1>how things could have turned out differently.

0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:53.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think their breakup beforehand might have been one

0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:55.600
<v Speaker 2>of the last draws too, and so she may have

0:23:55.960 --> 0:23:56.679
<v Speaker 2>felt bad about that.

0:23:56.720 --> 0:23:58.800
<v Speaker 1>Oh, that's another one too. So in addition to his

0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:04.480
<v Speaker 1>muffler shop being completely cut off from access to the

0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:07.800
<v Speaker 1>main road, he also caught his fiance in bed with

0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:11.080
<v Speaker 1>another man. It's another dumb thing you'll find on the

0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:13.880
<v Speaker 1>internet from people who don't know what they're talking about. Too. Oh,

0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:17.080
<v Speaker 1>he chalked up to explaining him snapping.

0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh. One thing I did forget to mention is that

0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:25.440
<v Speaker 2>four hundred grand het. He was I guess savvy enough

0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:28.240
<v Speaker 2>to know that they could come after that money afterward, Yeah,

0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:31.879
<v Speaker 2>to help give people. So he while his father was

0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:34.720
<v Speaker 2>still alive. His dad died shortly before, which was another

0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:37.280
<v Speaker 2>last straw apparently, but he had given the money to

0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:40.399
<v Speaker 2>his father, who then gave the money to his sister

0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:44.199
<v Speaker 2>and brother. So it was like two people removed and untouchable.

0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:47.080
<v Speaker 1>I guess, oh wow, yeah, that is pretty savvy.

0:24:47.200 --> 0:24:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:51.760
<v Speaker 1>So he's got this kill dozer that he's putting together.

0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:53.760
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk a little bit about that. Like I said,

0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:57.480
<v Speaker 1>it was a sixty ton bulldozer, just a big, big boy.

0:24:58.280 --> 0:25:01.719
<v Speaker 1>But on top of that, he he took sheets of

0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:07.760
<v Speaker 1>steel and separated them by about twelve inches and poured

0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:11.800
<v Speaker 1>concrete in the in the space between the two. So

0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:16.280
<v Speaker 1>he made twelve inch on either side twelve inches of

0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:20.199
<v Speaker 1>steel with concrete in the middle. Plates that he created,

0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:24.280
<v Speaker 1>essentially a superstructure that he later before his rampage, right

0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:30.160
<v Speaker 1>before his rampage lowered on top of the Komatsu itself.

0:25:31.280 --> 0:25:34.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, sealing him in there. He also had gun ports.

0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:38.040
<v Speaker 2>He had a fifty cow rifle, which is if you

0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:39.960
<v Speaker 2>just look up what a fifty caliber round looks like,

0:25:40.000 --> 0:25:44.680
<v Speaker 2>it's very large and destructive, a three eight semi automatic,

0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:48.040
<v Speaker 2>and then a twenty two long rifle. He also had

0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:53.359
<v Speaker 2>a three point fifty seven revolver inside, and he had

0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:56.840
<v Speaker 2>five video cameras mounted on the outside feeding three monitors

0:25:57.400 --> 0:26:01.760
<v Speaker 2>on the inside, and these lenses were protected by three

0:26:01.840 --> 0:26:09.320
<v Speaker 2>inch lexand bulletproof plastic basically. So the small little tiny

0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:12.800
<v Speaker 2>ports that were even on this thing were because they

0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:16.080
<v Speaker 2>tried eventually shooting into these were only like two by

0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:19.240
<v Speaker 2>three inches. So even these sharpshooters were having a hard

0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:21.920
<v Speaker 2>time getting a bullet in there, and even if they did,

0:26:22.080 --> 0:26:24.040
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't it was not effective anyway.

0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:27.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there were so many layers of this plastic bulletproof

0:26:28.480 --> 0:26:31.800
<v Speaker 1>like cladding. I guess that like, even if they broke

0:26:31.880 --> 0:26:33.800
<v Speaker 1>some of the layers, there was still more layers to

0:26:33.840 --> 0:26:37.040
<v Speaker 1>go through. It was nuts. But there's something I want

0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:39.800
<v Speaker 1>everybody to make note of. He put in those three

0:26:39.880 --> 0:26:43.520
<v Speaker 1>gun ports. Like you said, it's really important because one

0:26:43.560 --> 0:26:45.199
<v Speaker 1>of the things that a lot of people use to

0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:49.919
<v Speaker 1>defend Marv is that he was all he wanted was

0:26:49.960 --> 0:26:53.120
<v Speaker 1>property destruction. That's all he was intent on. And there's

0:26:53.200 --> 0:26:57.359
<v Speaker 1>no way to explain away those three gun ports otherwise

0:26:57.440 --> 0:27:01.560
<v Speaker 1>they don't jibe at that narrative at all. Certainly changes

0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:02.840
<v Speaker 1>the complexion of things too.

0:27:03.720 --> 0:27:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh, absolutely. Yeah, as far as like folk hero who

0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:12.000
<v Speaker 2>just wanted to direct the business who wrecked his Yeah,

0:27:12.000 --> 0:27:13.440
<v Speaker 2>you don't go in there with a fifty.

0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:15.760
<v Speaker 1>Cal no, and I mean you can. He didn't even

0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:19.480
<v Speaker 1>need to defend himself. They couldn't get through this the plating,

0:27:19.520 --> 0:27:22.240
<v Speaker 1>the cladding, And even if he did need to defend himself,

0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:25.600
<v Speaker 1>he certainly didn't need three guns. So there was basically

0:27:25.640 --> 0:27:27.679
<v Speaker 1>no reason for those guns to be there aside from

0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:28.480
<v Speaker 1>shooting people.

0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely they would later obviously, he, like I said,

0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:38.040
<v Speaker 2>he mailed those tapes to his brother right before the attack.

0:27:39.320 --> 0:27:42.080
<v Speaker 2>They ended up finding a list afterward with sort of

0:27:42.119 --> 0:27:46.720
<v Speaker 2>like a hit list for the buildings he wanted to wreck. Obviously,

0:27:46.800 --> 0:27:49.840
<v Speaker 2>the Doe Chefs and the Thompson's were on that list,

0:27:50.240 --> 0:27:53.000
<v Speaker 2>as was the church in town, the Catholic church. That

0:27:53.160 --> 0:27:57.160
<v Speaker 2>is because on the tapes he was, or at least

0:27:57.200 --> 0:27:59.600
<v Speaker 2>in this one part, he was very anti Catholic, called

0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Catholic cowards, and the Thompsons were Catholic, and that was

0:28:03.040 --> 0:28:03.879
<v Speaker 2>one of his big beats.

0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:08.560
<v Speaker 1>Gotcha. So again that Dozer Manifesto, they make an amazing

0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:11.520
<v Speaker 1>use of his actual tapes to let him just kind

0:28:11.560 --> 0:28:15.840
<v Speaker 1>of present himself and like you said that he apparently

0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:19.480
<v Speaker 1>believed that God was at the very least looking the

0:28:19.560 --> 0:28:23.919
<v Speaker 1>other way and kind of tacitly condoning this mission, if not,

0:28:24.440 --> 0:28:27.679
<v Speaker 1>you know, blessing the mission by all those ways that

0:28:27.720 --> 0:28:30.760
<v Speaker 1>you had said, like people overlooking the dozer, the fact

0:28:30.800 --> 0:28:33.480
<v Speaker 1>that the dozer was the one thing that he wasn't

0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:36.200
<v Speaker 1>able to sell at auction. He even said that God

0:28:36.200 --> 0:28:39.040
<v Speaker 1>told him to take take the winner off, put this

0:28:39.080 --> 0:28:42.760
<v Speaker 1>whole thing off for a year, essentially, and he did.

0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:46.680
<v Speaker 1>He also went on at length about the town that

0:28:46.720 --> 0:28:48.320
<v Speaker 1>he was dealing with and gave his side of the

0:28:48.320 --> 0:28:50.640
<v Speaker 1>story quite clearly, and he said that they use mafia

0:28:50.680 --> 0:28:55.040
<v Speaker 1>type tactics against him. And there's this line from his

0:28:55.640 --> 0:28:58.440
<v Speaker 1>tapes that this is like the people who consider him

0:28:58.440 --> 0:29:01.880
<v Speaker 1>a folk hero point to it said, or he said,

0:29:03.480 --> 0:29:06.000
<v Speaker 1>I was always willing to be reasonable until I had

0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:10.480
<v Speaker 1>to be unreasonable. Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things.

0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:15.960
<v Speaker 1>And it's a just a sweeping thing to say, because

0:29:15.960 --> 0:29:19.920
<v Speaker 1>it completely explains away everything he does after that point,

0:29:20.440 --> 0:29:23.360
<v Speaker 1>and it completely gives him an alibi up to that point.

0:29:23.680 --> 0:29:26.560
<v Speaker 1>He's saying, I know what I'm doing, wrecking the town.

0:29:26.800 --> 0:29:30.080
<v Speaker 1>That's an unreasonable thing, but I have every reason to

0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:33.040
<v Speaker 1>do this. I have a very reasonable reason to do

0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:37.000
<v Speaker 1>this very unreasonable thing. It's really it's a very I

0:29:37.000 --> 0:29:40.959
<v Speaker 1>don't know, it's just nuts how well it encapsulates everything.

0:29:40.960 --> 0:29:42.440
<v Speaker 1>He just kind of lets him off the hook.

0:29:43.240 --> 0:29:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally. He had also been hassling the paper for

0:29:46.040 --> 0:29:49.800
<v Speaker 2>not covering his story, like he was like, no one's

0:29:49.840 --> 0:29:51.760
<v Speaker 2>even writing about my beaf with the sewer line and

0:29:51.800 --> 0:29:55.280
<v Speaker 2>all this stuff. And so they ended up giving him

0:29:55.280 --> 0:29:57.840
<v Speaker 2>a free ad. They were like, oh, jeez, this guy,

0:29:58.560 --> 0:30:00.120
<v Speaker 2>how about we give you an ad. They came out

0:30:00.120 --> 0:30:03.480
<v Speaker 2>and photographed him and gave him a you know, an

0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:06.720
<v Speaker 2>ad for his muffler shop, which it turns out wasn't

0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:10.680
<v Speaker 2>enough to appease him. As we'll see, the end of

0:30:10.680 --> 0:30:14.240
<v Speaker 2>his lease was coming up. He had gone through that breakup,

0:30:14.280 --> 0:30:18.840
<v Speaker 2>his dad had just died, and so it was it

0:30:18.880 --> 0:30:21.760
<v Speaker 2>was game time. Basically. On June fourth, two thousand and four,

0:30:22.360 --> 0:30:24.680
<v Speaker 2>he uh, like we said, he sealed himself in that

0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:29.880
<v Speaker 2>cockpit kind of like couldn't get out, basically, and to

0:30:30.000 --> 0:30:35.479
<v Speaker 2>what looks like this a bulldozer meets ay the what

0:30:35.520 --> 0:30:38.120
<v Speaker 2>were those crawlers called in Star Wars where the Jahwa's

0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:40.479
<v Speaker 2>traded out of it kind of looked like that.

0:30:40.680 --> 0:30:43.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't remember what they're called. I just remember built.

0:30:43.560 --> 0:30:45.680
<v Speaker 1>It was based on a brutalist hotel in Morocco that

0:30:45.760 --> 0:30:48.800
<v Speaker 1>George Lucas saw exactly. And you don't need to write

0:30:48.840 --> 0:30:50.400
<v Speaker 1>in everybody, we can go look it up later.

0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:57.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know what it's called John at two pm

0:30:57.760 --> 0:30:59.840
<v Speaker 2>and this was you know, when you see footage of

0:30:59.840 --> 0:31:02.240
<v Speaker 2>this thing or watching the documentary, it's this thing goes

0:31:02.240 --> 0:31:05.480
<v Speaker 2>four or five miles an hour, So it's a it's

0:31:05.480 --> 0:31:08.080
<v Speaker 2>a different kind of rampage. It's a slow motion rampage

0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:14.040
<v Speaker 2>going through town. But this thing was unstoppable, was the issue.

0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that, I mean, that's a really great way to

0:31:16.960 --> 0:31:20.480
<v Speaker 1>describe it. They, as we'll see, couldn't come up with

0:31:20.600 --> 0:31:24.120
<v Speaker 1>anything to put an end to this. I say, before

0:31:24.160 --> 0:31:26.920
<v Speaker 1>we really get underway with the rampage, we take our

0:31:27.120 --> 0:31:30.240
<v Speaker 1>final break and come back and tell everybody just what happened.

0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:30.760
<v Speaker 1>What do you think?

0:31:31.440 --> 0:32:05.600
<v Speaker 2>All right, let's do it. All right, So the rampage starts. Obviously,

0:32:05.640 --> 0:32:08.200
<v Speaker 2>the first people he's going to go after are the

0:32:08.200 --> 0:32:13.160
<v Speaker 2>dough chefs and that concrete plant. When he gets there,

0:32:14.400 --> 0:32:18.000
<v Speaker 2>they quickly realize what's going on. Cody Dochef is like,

0:32:18.040 --> 0:32:21.040
<v Speaker 2>that's Marv he Meyer in there, and cops are like,

0:32:21.040 --> 0:32:22.360
<v Speaker 2>are you sure, how do you know? And he's like,

0:32:22.440 --> 0:32:26.479
<v Speaker 2>trust me, it's Marv he Meyer. He tries to stop it.

0:32:26.560 --> 0:32:30.719
<v Speaker 2>He tries shooting a revolver at this thing, which is

0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:33.360
<v Speaker 2>just a joke. I guess that's just the first sort

0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:36.720
<v Speaker 2>of reaction is like shoot it. Yea in western Colorado

0:32:36.760 --> 0:32:40.800
<v Speaker 2>at least, so hey, no shade there by the way,

0:32:42.080 --> 0:32:47.040
<v Speaker 2>But he starts shooting at this thing. He's he's literally

0:32:47.280 --> 0:32:50.160
<v Speaker 2>getting in his own This is Cody dochev getting in

0:32:50.200 --> 0:32:52.880
<v Speaker 2>his own little front end loader and driving at it.

0:32:53.240 --> 0:32:55.480
<v Speaker 2>He gets he rams aside of it, and he's trying

0:32:55.480 --> 0:32:58.240
<v Speaker 2>to lift it up off of the ground because basically

0:32:58.240 --> 0:33:00.520
<v Speaker 2>they're like, we can't. You know, they've tried shooting into

0:33:00.520 --> 0:33:02.400
<v Speaker 2>it already. They know that's not going to work, so

0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:04.640
<v Speaker 2>they want to disable those treads. If you can disable

0:33:04.960 --> 0:33:08.080
<v Speaker 2>a tank's treads, then you're in business. So they thought

0:33:08.120 --> 0:33:10.640
<v Speaker 2>if they could lift it off the ground, that might work.

0:33:11.520 --> 0:33:15.360
<v Speaker 2>They thought if they jammed this huge steel pole into

0:33:15.400 --> 0:33:18.080
<v Speaker 2>the treads, that that might you know, get stuck or

0:33:18.200 --> 0:33:21.080
<v Speaker 2>throw something out of whack. None of that works, and

0:33:21.200 --> 0:33:23.480
<v Speaker 2>when Cody doe Chef rams this thing and tries to

0:33:23.520 --> 0:33:26.280
<v Speaker 2>pick it up, his wheels come off the ground. He

0:33:26.360 --> 0:33:29.160
<v Speaker 2>hits the front windshield and gets knocked out cold and

0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:31.600
<v Speaker 2>awakes to bullet fire coming his way.

0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:34.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. That was one thing that MARKI Meyer did was

0:33:35.000 --> 0:33:39.800
<v Speaker 1>he took aim and shot at Cody Deutcheff's his front

0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:41.800
<v Speaker 1>end loader, and there were bullet holes from the fifty

0:33:41.800 --> 0:33:45.920
<v Speaker 1>caliber in the bucket of the front end loader. Astoundingly,

0:33:45.960 --> 0:33:51.040
<v Speaker 1>he didn't hit Cody Dochef and he, I guess left

0:33:51.120 --> 0:33:54.520
<v Speaker 1>the cement plan at this time and started moving toward

0:33:54.600 --> 0:33:56.760
<v Speaker 1>the town. And one of the ways that he got

0:33:56.800 --> 0:33:59.920
<v Speaker 1>to the town was busting through a concrete road barrier,

0:34:00.120 --> 0:34:03.240
<v Speaker 1>a pair of them that I believe some highway patrolmen

0:34:03.480 --> 0:34:05.800
<v Speaker 1>were hiding behind, and they got out of the way just

0:34:05.840 --> 0:34:08.080
<v Speaker 1>in time because that killed those who went right through

0:34:08.120 --> 0:34:11.080
<v Speaker 1>those concrete barriers on its way to downtown Gramby.

0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:14.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and he didn't have to go that way. So

0:34:14.200 --> 0:34:17.399
<v Speaker 2>that was another instance where he he literally turned left

0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:20.440
<v Speaker 2>and headed right toward those guys. And these are cops.

0:34:21.800 --> 0:34:26.520
<v Speaker 2>They're bringing in forest service people, they're bringing in larger guns.

0:34:26.680 --> 0:34:29.360
<v Speaker 2>They ended up firing about two hundred shots at this thing,

0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:32.800
<v Speaker 2>but again they're just firing it at hard and steel

0:34:33.360 --> 0:34:37.560
<v Speaker 2>and so nothing is doing any good. Cody Docheff also

0:34:37.600 --> 0:34:40.200
<v Speaker 2>tried to climb up on top of it, but Marp

0:34:40.800 --> 0:34:42.319
<v Speaker 2>and I shouldn't be laughing here, but this is the

0:34:42.320 --> 0:34:45.240
<v Speaker 2>one part I thought was kind of funny. Marp thought

0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:48.319
<v Speaker 2>of that too, and he greased this thing up with

0:34:48.480 --> 0:34:52.279
<v Speaker 2>like axle grease, and so Cody Docheff is slipping off

0:34:52.280 --> 0:34:56.480
<v Speaker 2>of this thing. Eventually. There is a guy, a deputy

0:34:56.520 --> 0:35:00.040
<v Speaker 2>named Glenn Trainor, who climbed up on top of the

0:35:00.080 --> 0:35:02.839
<v Speaker 2>building and jumped right on top of the thing, and

0:35:03.080 --> 0:35:05.200
<v Speaker 2>he rode this thing around town. There's footage of this

0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:09.880
<v Speaker 2>guy riding this kill dozer around town trying to disable

0:35:09.920 --> 0:35:10.520
<v Speaker 2>it from above.

0:35:10.600 --> 0:35:13.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, under Sheriff Glenn Trainer is typically referred to as

0:35:13.760 --> 0:35:16.280
<v Speaker 1>one of the big heroes of the day just for trying.

0:35:16.920 --> 0:35:19.600
<v Speaker 1>Nobody was successful, but a lot of people tried, and

0:35:19.680 --> 0:35:23.520
<v Speaker 1>he definitely risked life and limb essentially to try to

0:35:23.560 --> 0:35:26.400
<v Speaker 1>disable this thing. He found what he thought was a

0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:29.840
<v Speaker 1>weak point into the engine and shot into it a

0:35:29.840 --> 0:35:32.360
<v Speaker 1>bunch of times. Turns out it was a cover for

0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:37.920
<v Speaker 1>the air conditioner that Marv had put onto the bulldozer.

0:35:38.640 --> 0:35:41.279
<v Speaker 1>He also got a flashbran grenade, dropped it down the

0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:44.879
<v Speaker 1>exhaust pipe. It blew up. It did absolutely nothing, and

0:35:45.080 --> 0:35:50.359
<v Speaker 1>despite yeah being greased, Glenn Trainor hung on until Marv

0:35:50.400 --> 0:35:53.440
<v Speaker 1>he Meyer got the killdozer to the town hall building,

0:35:53.960 --> 0:35:56.319
<v Speaker 1>and Glenn Trainor saw quite clearly he was going to

0:35:56.360 --> 0:35:59.560
<v Speaker 1>be taken along with this thirteen foot tall, eighty ton

0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:02.760
<v Speaker 1>bold Those are right into town hall and he would

0:36:02.760 --> 0:36:05.200
<v Speaker 1>not fare very well in that circumstance. So he jumped

0:36:05.200 --> 0:36:08.959
<v Speaker 1>off and rolled onto the grass from that thirteen foot height.

0:36:09.960 --> 0:36:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so he's out of there safely. Like you said,

0:36:13.640 --> 0:36:16.120
<v Speaker 2>he goes after the town hall. It has a local

0:36:16.160 --> 0:36:21.000
<v Speaker 2>library in there where who knows whether he knows this

0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:22.319
<v Speaker 2>or not, but there were a bunch of kids in

0:36:22.360 --> 0:36:26.839
<v Speaker 2>there in a reading program, including the eleven year old

0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:29.320
<v Speaker 2>daughter of the mayor at the time, so they're huddling

0:36:29.320 --> 0:36:32.399
<v Speaker 2>in the basement. The town has issued a reverse nine

0:36:32.400 --> 0:36:35.799
<v Speaker 2>to one one call to basically where they call every

0:36:35.800 --> 0:36:38.880
<v Speaker 2>single resident in town at once and say, you know,

0:36:39.120 --> 0:36:41.920
<v Speaker 2>shelter in place, or in this case, calling the people

0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:45.799
<v Speaker 2>at the library saying get out of there. He then

0:36:46.000 --> 0:36:52.720
<v Speaker 2>turns on the bank the Liberty Bank branch, because obviously

0:36:52.719 --> 0:36:55.719
<v Speaker 2>he had problems with the banking system there. He then

0:36:55.760 --> 0:36:59.759
<v Speaker 2>turns on the newspaper and the Patrick Brower, the editor

0:36:59.800 --> 0:37:03.120
<v Speaker 2>the that he'd been you know, having his newspaper beef with,

0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:06.759
<v Speaker 2>is running out the back door as he is collapsing

0:37:06.800 --> 0:37:09.399
<v Speaker 2>this building. You know, he gets out in the nick

0:37:09.400 --> 0:37:11.040
<v Speaker 2>of time as he's collapsing the building.

0:37:11.120 --> 0:37:14.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and frequently in interviews, Patrick Brower points out that

0:37:14.080 --> 0:37:16.440
<v Speaker 1>had he tripped and fall and he'd be dead, it

0:37:16.480 --> 0:37:19.359
<v Speaker 1>was that close. Yeah, it does seem to have been

0:37:19.440 --> 0:37:21.839
<v Speaker 1>that kind of experience for people on the ground during

0:37:21.880 --> 0:37:25.200
<v Speaker 1>this rampage. Somebody would run in shouting like get out,

0:37:25.239 --> 0:37:27.480
<v Speaker 1>get out, and probably didn't even have time to say

0:37:27.480 --> 0:37:30.440
<v Speaker 1>what the heck was coming when the killdozer would come

0:37:30.560 --> 0:37:34.240
<v Speaker 1>crashing through the front of the building, not the front door,

0:37:34.440 --> 0:37:36.759
<v Speaker 1>not a side door. It would come right through the

0:37:36.760 --> 0:37:39.440
<v Speaker 1>front wall or the side wall. And one of the

0:37:39.440 --> 0:37:42.719
<v Speaker 1>things that people pointed out who were there was that

0:37:42.840 --> 0:37:45.759
<v Speaker 1>he would he would come crashing through the front wall

0:37:46.040 --> 0:37:47.960
<v Speaker 1>and it would take out like, you know, the front wall,

0:37:48.000 --> 0:37:49.560
<v Speaker 1>but the roof would still be thinking. So he back

0:37:49.640 --> 0:37:51.680
<v Speaker 1>up and he'd go after a corner of the building,

0:37:51.760 --> 0:37:54.719
<v Speaker 1>so like he was trying to demolish these buildings, he

0:37:54.840 --> 0:37:57.439
<v Speaker 1>was making a pretty great attempt at it, and toward

0:37:57.520 --> 0:37:59.520
<v Speaker 1>the end of the rampage he got pretty good at

0:37:59.520 --> 0:38:01.600
<v Speaker 1>taking building out in a couple of swipes.

0:38:02.480 --> 0:38:06.000
<v Speaker 2>No, absolutely, So then you know this is a small town.

0:38:06.120 --> 0:38:09.759
<v Speaker 2>When he makes a turn toward a thing, they kind

0:38:09.760 --> 0:38:11.399
<v Speaker 2>of have a pretty good idea of where he's going

0:38:11.520 --> 0:38:16.000
<v Speaker 2>because of the well known beef. So after he destroys

0:38:16.000 --> 0:38:19.400
<v Speaker 2>the newspaper building, he makes a turn and everyone's like

0:38:19.480 --> 0:38:24.160
<v Speaker 2>he's going after the Thompsons. He ends up Thelma Thompson,

0:38:24.239 --> 0:38:27.720
<v Speaker 2>eighty two year old widow of former mayor Dick Thompson,

0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:33.160
<v Speaker 2>was literally asleep taking a nap thirty minutes before her

0:38:33.200 --> 0:38:37.120
<v Speaker 2>house is just gone because they get her out of there.

0:38:37.440 --> 0:38:41.880
<v Speaker 2>He completely destroys her house and then turns toward their business,

0:38:42.360 --> 0:38:47.560
<v Speaker 2>which is the Thompson and Sons excavating business and services,

0:38:47.600 --> 0:38:49.280
<v Speaker 2>and starts destroying those buildings.

0:38:49.400 --> 0:38:52.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he cost them a good million and a half

0:38:52.440 --> 0:38:56.680
<v Speaker 1>dollars I saw to rebuild again, despite the people he

0:38:56.719 --> 0:38:59.360
<v Speaker 1>had the beef with not even being alive any longer.

0:38:59.400 --> 0:39:03.960
<v Speaker 1>But it's how much he hated the Thompson family after

0:39:04.000 --> 0:39:06.040
<v Speaker 1>that The next thing he did, this is a really

0:39:06.120 --> 0:39:08.560
<v Speaker 1>really critical thing that he did that really kind of

0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:10.799
<v Speaker 1>takes away a lot of sympathy I had for him.

0:39:11.120 --> 0:39:13.760
<v Speaker 1>He took out. He drove up to the propane company,

0:39:13.760 --> 0:39:17.520
<v Speaker 1>a local propane company, and uses fifty caliber rifle to

0:39:17.640 --> 0:39:20.760
<v Speaker 1>shoot at propane tanks for small ones, then big ones.

0:39:21.080 --> 0:39:23.680
<v Speaker 1>He tried to shoot in an electrical transformer so that

0:39:23.719 --> 0:39:27.120
<v Speaker 1>the sparks, ostensibly so the sparks would ignite the propane.

0:39:27.120 --> 0:39:29.600
<v Speaker 1>When he shot a propane tank open and the whole

0:39:29.640 --> 0:39:32.400
<v Speaker 1>thing would blow up. And that would have been significant.

0:39:32.719 --> 0:39:36.960
<v Speaker 1>Had this propane company blown up. I saw an estimate

0:39:37.040 --> 0:39:40.640
<v Speaker 1>that everyone within a half mile radius would have been

0:39:40.640 --> 0:39:43.760
<v Speaker 1>in danger. The blast would have been that big. Yeah,

0:39:44.040 --> 0:39:46.880
<v Speaker 1>this is downtown. It was as densely packed as the

0:39:46.920 --> 0:39:49.680
<v Speaker 1>town of Gramby could be, So half a mile radius

0:39:49.760 --> 0:39:52.840
<v Speaker 1>is you know, that was a significant thing. And the

0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:56.040
<v Speaker 1>reason why Patrick Brower points this out, and I tend

0:39:56.080 --> 0:39:59.399
<v Speaker 1>to agree with him. He takes issue with people who

0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:01.759
<v Speaker 1>are like these were all just warning shots. He just

0:40:01.800 --> 0:40:03.960
<v Speaker 1>wanted to destroy property. He just wanted to blow up

0:40:04.000 --> 0:40:07.440
<v Speaker 1>the propane company so that he could destroy more property.

0:40:07.440 --> 0:40:10.360
<v Speaker 1>He wasn't trying to kill anybody, And Patrick Brower was like,

0:40:10.440 --> 0:40:12.160
<v Speaker 1>this is no, this is not true. The reason he

0:40:12.200 --> 0:40:14.919
<v Speaker 1>didn't kill anybody was because the way that he had

0:40:15.000 --> 0:40:18.680
<v Speaker 1>mounted the rifles was so kluegy that he had almost

0:40:18.760 --> 0:40:23.440
<v Speaker 1>no chance whatsoever of shooting anybody. Those bulletproof class sights

0:40:23.520 --> 0:40:25.399
<v Speaker 1>that you were talking about, like the two by three

0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:29.359
<v Speaker 1>inch sights, or they weren't near the guns. The guns

0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:32.279
<v Speaker 1>weren't mounted right by them. The video cameras that he

0:40:32.320 --> 0:40:34.960
<v Speaker 1>was using to kind of drive around with they weren't

0:40:34.960 --> 0:40:37.040
<v Speaker 1>in line with the guns either, So when he was

0:40:37.080 --> 0:40:39.759
<v Speaker 1>aiming the gun, he had to do some sort of

0:40:39.920 --> 0:40:44.400
<v Speaker 1>weird mental topography to kind of figure out what he

0:40:44.480 --> 0:40:46.799
<v Speaker 1>was looking at in relation to the gun and try

0:40:46.800 --> 0:40:50.520
<v Speaker 1>to shoot that way. And Patrick Brower's point is that's

0:40:50.560 --> 0:40:52.759
<v Speaker 1>why no one was shot to death. That's why those

0:40:52.800 --> 0:40:56.040
<v Speaker 1>propaane tanks didn't blow up, that's why the electrical transformer

0:40:56.080 --> 0:40:58.680
<v Speaker 1>didn't blow up because he missed, not because he was

0:40:58.719 --> 0:41:01.919
<v Speaker 1>just firing warning shots. Because he missed. And if those

0:41:01.960 --> 0:41:08.799
<v Speaker 1>guns had been mounted more I guess efficiently, it could

0:41:08.840 --> 0:41:11.440
<v Speaker 1>have been a totally different outcome from this whole event.

0:41:12.600 --> 0:41:15.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure. He also, I mean, most of those

0:41:15.320 --> 0:41:18.360
<v Speaker 2>bullets didn't even make it out of his own vehicle

0:41:18.480 --> 0:41:21.760
<v Speaker 2>because the way he had the big fifty cow mounted,

0:41:22.600 --> 0:41:26.160
<v Speaker 2>it ended up hitting his own armor. So you see

0:41:26.200 --> 0:41:30.400
<v Speaker 2>like shooting toward this propane thing, and immediately these shots

0:41:30.400 --> 0:41:33.080
<v Speaker 2>are just sort of exploding because I think they were

0:41:34.080 --> 0:41:37.200
<v Speaker 2>some special kind of round or something, and they were

0:41:37.280 --> 0:41:40.760
<v Speaker 2>sort of exploding at you know, into his own tank.

0:41:41.400 --> 0:41:44.959
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, and then who knows if he even knew

0:41:44.960 --> 0:41:46.440
<v Speaker 2>what was going on, Like, no one knows what he

0:41:46.480 --> 0:41:50.720
<v Speaker 2>could even see inside that thing. So the machines damaged.

0:41:50.719 --> 0:41:53.880
<v Speaker 2>At this point, all the anti freeze has dumped out.

0:41:53.960 --> 0:41:57.600
<v Speaker 2>There's white smoke just pouring from this thing. There's hydraulic

0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:00.479
<v Speaker 2>fluid leaking all over the place, and it's pretty clear

0:42:00.520 --> 0:42:04.280
<v Speaker 2>that like the last gasp is happening. So he heads

0:42:04.320 --> 0:42:10.759
<v Speaker 2>down to Gambles of Granby hardware store. There was a

0:42:10.800 --> 0:42:15.040
<v Speaker 2>guy on the town board there related to the hardware

0:42:15.040 --> 0:42:17.279
<v Speaker 2>store that approved the concrete plant, and so they were

0:42:17.320 --> 0:42:20.759
<v Speaker 2>on the list. And you see this thing chugging along.

0:42:20.880 --> 0:42:24.280
<v Speaker 2>It's on its last legs. Somehow remarkably had not failed

0:42:24.320 --> 0:42:26.680
<v Speaker 2>up into that point. Yeah, Like I can't believe at

0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:29.640
<v Speaker 2>some point it didn't. Those treads didn't. I guess that's

0:42:29.640 --> 0:42:31.839
<v Speaker 2>why the bulldozer there there's you know, it's like a tank.

0:42:31.880 --> 0:42:34.839
<v Speaker 2>It's it's supposed to do that, so it was doing

0:42:34.880 --> 0:42:37.640
<v Speaker 2>it well. But what he didn't know was that there

0:42:37.680 --> 0:42:40.759
<v Speaker 2>was a basement in that hardware store, and eventually that

0:42:40.880 --> 0:42:44.560
<v Speaker 2>right front tread slipped down just a couple of feet

0:42:44.600 --> 0:42:49.080
<v Speaker 2>just enough into that basement to where the tread had

0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:52.200
<v Speaker 2>nothing against it and it was just spinning. So it

0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:53.520
<v Speaker 2>was finally stopped.

0:42:53.640 --> 0:42:56.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, people were walking alongside of this thing for a

0:42:56.280 --> 0:42:59.160
<v Speaker 1>lot of the time, so there were people within earshot

0:42:59.760 --> 0:43:04.200
<v Speaker 1>at this point, and there suddenly comes a muffled gunshot

0:43:04.239 --> 0:43:10.160
<v Speaker 1>from inside the pull the kill dozer, and people were like, well,

0:43:10.239 --> 0:43:12.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty sure that if that's Marv he Meyer who's

0:43:12.560 --> 0:43:16.200
<v Speaker 1>in there, he's no longer with us, and they were correct.

0:43:16.239 --> 0:43:20.680
<v Speaker 1>They the next day they tried to blow a hole

0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:24.000
<v Speaker 1>into the kill dozer, and do you remember at the outset,

0:43:24.040 --> 0:43:26.520
<v Speaker 1>I said that it was probably superior to a tank.

0:43:26.840 --> 0:43:28.879
<v Speaker 1>The reason I said that is because the swat team

0:43:28.920 --> 0:43:32.160
<v Speaker 1>who was creating this explosive charge to try to breach it,

0:43:32.600 --> 0:43:35.440
<v Speaker 1>they consulted with some explosive experts who told them what

0:43:35.640 --> 0:43:37.960
<v Speaker 1>charge to create to blow a hole in the side

0:43:38.000 --> 0:43:41.799
<v Speaker 1>of a tank and it didn't work. Yeah, the explosive

0:43:41.880 --> 0:43:44.359
<v Speaker 1>charge that could blow a hole in a tank did

0:43:44.400 --> 0:43:47.600
<v Speaker 1>not blow a hole in the kill dozer. That's how

0:43:48.040 --> 0:43:53.000
<v Speaker 1>thick and well welded this superstructure over the bulldozer was.

0:43:54.040 --> 0:43:57.040
<v Speaker 2>So nobody was killed or injured in this thing, which

0:43:57.160 --> 0:44:01.359
<v Speaker 2>was remarkable considering what was happening. It was a little

0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:05.240
<v Speaker 2>over two hours, up to seven million dollars in damage.

0:44:05.840 --> 0:44:10.239
<v Speaker 2>I think eleven of the thirteen buildings were occupied at

0:44:10.320 --> 0:44:12.320
<v Speaker 2>the time, and like you said, people were literally running

0:44:12.320 --> 0:44:15.279
<v Speaker 2>out the back door for a lot of these and

0:44:16.320 --> 0:44:20.400
<v Speaker 2>that was it. You know, the guy ends up, you know,

0:44:20.480 --> 0:44:24.520
<v Speaker 2>they take this tank apart, and they didn't want any

0:44:24.520 --> 0:44:26.960
<v Speaker 2>memory of it in town, so they take it apart,

0:44:27.320 --> 0:44:29.279
<v Speaker 2>get rid of the parts. I think one of them

0:44:29.360 --> 0:44:32.800
<v Speaker 2>ended up staying with the Thompson family, like one small part, Yeah.

0:44:32.600 --> 0:44:35.840
<v Speaker 1>A trunion I think, something that connects the bucket to

0:44:35.920 --> 0:44:38.399
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the dozer that had broken off when

0:44:38.400 --> 0:44:39.880
<v Speaker 1>he came crashing through their house.

0:44:40.880 --> 0:44:44.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. But aside from that, people basically wanted to forget

0:44:44.239 --> 0:44:46.759
<v Speaker 2>about it, and with the help of you know, insurance

0:44:46.800 --> 0:44:51.480
<v Speaker 2>and everything, they ended up rebuilding everything. Not that it

0:44:51.560 --> 0:44:54.480
<v Speaker 2>wasn't at great personal cost as well, of course, but

0:44:56.520 --> 0:44:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Marv was gone and they were really eager to move

0:44:59.000 --> 0:44:59.920
<v Speaker 2>on for the most part as it.

0:45:00.400 --> 0:45:03.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Casey Farrell, who owned Gamble's hardware store, it took

0:45:03.200 --> 0:45:06.200
<v Speaker 1>him seven years because his store was insured, but it

0:45:06.280 --> 0:45:08.759
<v Speaker 1>wasn't insured for the kind of money it takes to

0:45:08.800 --> 0:45:13.280
<v Speaker 1>rebuild after a dozer rampage. But I guess the Denver

0:45:13.320 --> 0:45:15.920
<v Speaker 1>Post visited a year after on the anniversary of it

0:45:15.960 --> 0:45:17.920
<v Speaker 1>to do a story, and they found that most of

0:45:17.920 --> 0:45:20.120
<v Speaker 1>the buildings had either been rebuilt or were in the

0:45:20.160 --> 0:45:23.520
<v Speaker 1>process of rebuilding. And I believe the mayor at the

0:45:23.560 --> 0:45:25.279
<v Speaker 1>time this, I guess this would have been a year after.

0:45:25.360 --> 0:45:28.279
<v Speaker 1>A guy named Ted Wang. He said that the whole

0:45:28.360 --> 0:45:32.399
<v Speaker 1>rampage had actually inspired the town to become tighter as

0:45:32.400 --> 0:45:35.520
<v Speaker 1>a community, Like more people became involved in local politics,

0:45:35.520 --> 0:45:37.839
<v Speaker 1>and the town just kind of like took pride in

0:45:37.840 --> 0:45:41.759
<v Speaker 1>its own resurrection and rebuilding itself brick from brick, which

0:45:41.800 --> 0:45:44.760
<v Speaker 1>is essentially I guess, the opposite of what Marvy Meyer

0:45:44.760 --> 0:45:46.680
<v Speaker 1>would have wanted from his rampage.

0:45:46.719 --> 0:45:50.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, probably, And you know the narrative that

0:45:50.560 --> 0:45:54.080
<v Speaker 2>you hinted at early was still lives on for a

0:45:54.080 --> 0:45:55.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of people. A lot of people think this guy's

0:45:55.680 --> 0:45:58.839
<v Speaker 2>a folk hero, probably not surprisingly a lot of those

0:45:58.840 --> 0:46:03.440
<v Speaker 2>people on the very far right of the political spectrum,

0:46:03.920 --> 0:46:05.839
<v Speaker 2>and say, you know, this was a guy taking down,

0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:08.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, his local government that was being he was

0:46:08.520 --> 0:46:11.360
<v Speaker 2>a victim of his local government, and he was taking

0:46:11.360 --> 0:46:14.239
<v Speaker 2>them out, you know, doing what we all want to

0:46:14.280 --> 0:46:18.080
<v Speaker 2>do on any given day. And people still celebrate June

0:46:18.080 --> 0:46:21.360
<v Speaker 2>fourth is Killedozer Day in some of those circles.

0:46:21.440 --> 0:46:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And so, you know, doing research on this, I

0:46:25.560 --> 0:46:27.560
<v Speaker 1>just got less and less sympathetic with the guy and

0:46:27.640 --> 0:46:30.520
<v Speaker 1>really just came to dislike him. And then I came

0:46:30.560 --> 0:46:35.279
<v Speaker 1>across that Dozer Manifesto webcomic by mister V and just

0:46:35.520 --> 0:46:38.680
<v Speaker 1>reading some of it, I was like, well, I'm not

0:46:38.800 --> 0:46:41.440
<v Speaker 1>exactly sure how I think about this whole thing, and

0:46:41.520 --> 0:46:44.400
<v Speaker 1>I think I don't have enough information about what really

0:46:44.440 --> 0:46:48.080
<v Speaker 1>went on in that town or didn't go on to

0:46:48.200 --> 0:46:50.719
<v Speaker 1>decide one way or another, and get I don't think

0:46:50.719 --> 0:46:54.759
<v Speaker 1>that matters, But I just thought it was interesting that

0:46:54.840 --> 0:46:59.799
<v Speaker 1>I had an about face. I guess, yeah, I find

0:46:59.800 --> 0:47:02.080
<v Speaker 1>it interesting when I think of my thoughts.

0:47:03.640 --> 0:47:06.160
<v Speaker 2>There was no one is quite sure who came up

0:47:06.200 --> 0:47:08.640
<v Speaker 2>with the name kill Dozer in terms of this case,

0:47:08.680 --> 0:47:14.200
<v Speaker 2>but there was obviously the band kill Dozer got to

0:47:14.200 --> 0:47:18.200
<v Speaker 2>shout them out from Madison, Wisconsin, Okay, and they may have.

0:47:18.320 --> 0:47:21.200
<v Speaker 2>I think they were the early eighties where they before

0:47:21.280 --> 0:47:23.000
<v Speaker 2>or after the movie, because when they're a movie as well.

0:47:23.120 --> 0:47:25.600
<v Speaker 1>There was a movie called kill Dozer from nineteen seventy four.

0:47:25.640 --> 0:47:29.759
<v Speaker 1>It was the ABC Suspense Saturday Suspense TV movie that

0:47:29.920 --> 0:47:32.799
<v Speaker 1>was based on a nineteen forty four short story by

0:47:33.200 --> 0:47:35.080
<v Speaker 1>fantasy writer Theodore Sturgeon.

0:47:36.200 --> 0:47:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so I bet kill Those are the band named

0:47:38.200 --> 0:47:40.439
<v Speaker 2>themselves after. That would be mine, I would think.

0:47:40.440 --> 0:47:42.919
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I don't understand why. It's like, well, where

0:47:42.920 --> 0:47:45.440
<v Speaker 1>did the name come from? Like kill those? Like you

0:47:45.480 --> 0:47:46.960
<v Speaker 1>would just look at that thing and be like, that's

0:47:46.960 --> 0:47:51.040
<v Speaker 1>a kill dozer without ever hearing that word together. It's

0:47:51.080 --> 0:47:54.240
<v Speaker 1>not like some great mystery like that's a kill dozer.

0:47:54.400 --> 0:47:56.839
<v Speaker 1>That's just what you call that thing. Humans have some

0:47:56.880 --> 0:48:01.759
<v Speaker 1>sort of innate genetic understanding of seeing that thing and

0:48:01.880 --> 0:48:04.719
<v Speaker 1>knowing that it's a kill dozer without ever seeing that

0:48:04.760 --> 0:48:05.320
<v Speaker 1>word before.

0:48:06.120 --> 0:48:08.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, though it didn't kill, No.

0:48:08.920 --> 0:48:11.400
<v Speaker 1>It didn't. That's a great point. So it's a I

0:48:11.480 --> 0:48:15.680
<v Speaker 1>guess destroy dozer is a better one, yeah, or a bulldozer.

0:48:15.719 --> 0:48:19.240
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah. If you want to know more about kill Dozer,

0:48:19.280 --> 0:48:22.320
<v Speaker 1>there's plenty of stuff to read and watch on the internet.

0:48:22.480 --> 0:48:25.120
<v Speaker 1>Just be wary. Hopefully we've armed you with a little

0:48:25.600 --> 0:48:29.960
<v Speaker 1>bit of info to measure against. And since I said that,

0:48:30.040 --> 0:48:31.719
<v Speaker 1>it's time of course for a listener mail.

0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:37.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and watch Tread You can rent it. I think

0:48:37.440 --> 0:48:39.760
<v Speaker 2>it's free on two V and some other stuff.

0:48:39.760 --> 0:48:42.719
<v Speaker 1>But it is really well done. It's a great documentary.

0:48:43.480 --> 0:48:46.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, he does these recreations that I guess are CGI,

0:48:46.920 --> 0:48:50.080
<v Speaker 2>but it looked to me like I was like, man,

0:48:50.120 --> 0:48:53.960
<v Speaker 2>did they actually build another kill dozer replica to shoot

0:48:53.960 --> 0:48:54.360
<v Speaker 2>the stuff?

0:48:54.440 --> 0:48:56.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? It was one of those few documentaries that had

0:48:56.400 --> 0:48:58.160
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and fifty million dollar budget.

0:48:59.040 --> 0:49:01.719
<v Speaker 2>Not sure, but it looked good. And it's only like

0:49:02.040 --> 0:49:04.319
<v Speaker 2>ninety eight minutes long or less than that eighty eight

0:49:04.320 --> 0:49:08.759
<v Speaker 2>minutes ninety It's it's definitely worth seeing, all right, Listener Mail.

0:49:08.840 --> 0:49:12.520
<v Speaker 2>Dangers of Whistling. Hey, guys, just finish that episode. And

0:49:12.560 --> 0:49:14.279
<v Speaker 2>I thought you were going to mention the one thing

0:49:14.400 --> 0:49:17.439
<v Speaker 2>about not whistling in a theater. Not one hundred percent

0:49:17.440 --> 0:49:19.279
<v Speaker 2>sure of the veracity of the history of this, but

0:49:19.880 --> 0:49:22.160
<v Speaker 2>old theater. Legend has it that early stage hands were

0:49:22.160 --> 0:49:26.440
<v Speaker 2>also sailors and or dock workers who communicated in whistles,

0:49:26.440 --> 0:49:29.200
<v Speaker 2>and therefore, if you were a casual bystander whistling in

0:49:29.200 --> 0:49:32.360
<v Speaker 2>a theater, you could actually cause an accident through miscommunication.

0:49:33.400 --> 0:49:35.920
<v Speaker 2>As with some of other superstitions in the theater, this

0:49:36.000 --> 0:49:38.759
<v Speaker 2>one is based more on safety than anything else, and

0:49:38.760 --> 0:49:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I always find it fascinating. The concept of bad luck

0:49:42.040 --> 0:49:46.239
<v Speaker 2>was apparently effective for early safety compliance. Thanks for keeping

0:49:46.280 --> 0:49:49.040
<v Speaker 2>me entertained on my long LA commutes. And that is

0:49:49.040 --> 0:49:52.360
<v Speaker 2>from Claudia, who was a stage hand in Los Angeles.

0:49:52.360 --> 0:49:54.759
<v Speaker 1>Awesome. Thanks a lot, Claudia. I feel like we talked

0:49:54.760 --> 0:49:56.920
<v Speaker 1>about that. It came across it in research or something

0:49:57.000 --> 0:49:59.080
<v Speaker 1>like that. I don't know if it was related to

0:49:59.080 --> 0:50:02.239
<v Speaker 1>whistling or what, but had to do with salty sea

0:50:02.280 --> 0:50:05.319
<v Speaker 1>dogs moonlighting as stage hands for the theater.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I remember that? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Well, thanks Claudia for getting in touch. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to be like Claudia and share something

0:50:12.040 --> 0:50:14.640
<v Speaker 1>awesome and interesting with us, we'd love that you can

0:50:14.680 --> 0:50:16.600
<v Speaker 1>wrap it up, spank it on the bottom, and send

0:50:16.600 --> 0:50:23.680
<v Speaker 1>it on its way to stuff. Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:50:23.880 --> 0:50:26.160
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0:50:26.640 --> 0:50:29.880
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