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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck

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Speaker 1: and Jerry's here too, and it's just the three of

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Speaker 1: us rampaging away in podcast land. That's stuff you should know.

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Speaker 2: In case you didn't know well before we get started,

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Speaker 2: I think we should mention that there are still tickets

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Speaker 2: available for our show's coming up very soon in Chicago

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Speaker 2: on August seventh and Minneapolis on August eighth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna be pretty great. We're going to be

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Speaker 1: at the Auditorium in Chicago and we're going to be

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Speaker 1: at the State Theater in Minneapolis, and there are tickets

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Speaker 1: left and you can come see us. It's a great show.

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Speaker 1: We've gotten great feedback so far. Only like two people

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Speaker 1: have been like that sucked. Everybody else is like that,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty great. And you can go to stuff youshould

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Speaker 1: Know dot com and click on the tour page tour button,

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Speaker 1: and you can also go to link tree, slash sysk Live,

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Speaker 1: and both of those places will take you to sites

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Speaker 1: where you can buy legitimate tickets to come see us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and those are both great cities for us. We

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Speaker 2: love going to Chicago and Minneapolis. I know it's been

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Speaker 2: a little while for Minneapolis, but we've had always had

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Speaker 2: great shows there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're not promoting Indianapolis because Indianapolis sold out,

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Speaker 1: so we'll see them as well. But you can't come

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Speaker 1: in if you haven't already bought your tickets. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you know, it's a Midwestern themed show, so

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Speaker 2: sort of Chicago adjacent, really Indianapolis adjacent. So they got

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Speaker 2: on it. They want to hear about their people.

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Speaker 1: That's right. So yeah, come see us at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of August.

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Speaker 2: You guys, all right back to it?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: Good one?

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Speaker 1: Oh you think so?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Okay, thanks.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate you letting us do this one first because,

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Speaker 2: like I just announced to you, Yeah, I just watched

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Speaker 2: the documentary on this topic, Tread Tread, directed by Paul Solette.

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Speaker 2: Let's it's solet who knows we go with?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 2: Did you watch it?

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Speaker 1: Yes? I have, Actually I've seen it. I saw a

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Speaker 1: few years back. I haven't seen I didn't watch it

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Speaker 1: recently for this For.

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Speaker 2: Some reason, I think we covered this in like a

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Speaker 2: video or something like how do I know about this?

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Speaker 1: It was pretty big news, and I mean it's become

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Speaker 1: an Internet legend. Maybe we did do like an Internet

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Speaker 1: round up on it or something like that on the

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Speaker 1: tenth anniversary. Maybe I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that feels about right, But I guess we should

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Speaker 2: say what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Eh, sure, Oh, I'll do that then. Okay, So for

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Speaker 1: those of you who don't know, we're talking about an

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Speaker 1: event that took place in two thousand and four in

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Speaker 1: a little town called Granby, Colorado, about fifty miles west

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Speaker 1: of Denver, population two thousand ish. I think at the

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Speaker 1: time it's a small town, yeah, but it wasn't, you know,

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Speaker 1: an economically depressed town. It's like sixteen miles away from

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Speaker 1: the entrance to Rocky Mounta National Park. They're skiing around there,

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Speaker 1: so there's tourists. There's also rural ranchers that come into

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Speaker 1: shopping Granby. It's fine. It's just a cute, quinte small

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Speaker 1: mountain town like South Park basically.

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Speaker 2: That's right. And it remained that way until June fourth,

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Speaker 2: two thousand and four, when a lot of this town

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Speaker 2: was destroyed by a man in a bulldozer that had

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Speaker 2: ended up being dubbed later on as the kill Dozer.

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Speaker 2: And we'll get to that later, right, But it was

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Speaker 2: a muffler shop owner, a fifty two year old guy

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Speaker 2: named Marvin he Meyer, Marv he Meyer, and he had

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Speaker 2: beefs with the town. He had beefs with people in

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Speaker 2: the town. We're going to go over all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: So he built or modified rather a gigantic bulldozer into

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Speaker 2: basically a tank and destroyed the places of the people

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Speaker 2: he had beefs with. More.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I left all that out of my introduction, so

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you filled it in. Yeah, you said it

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Speaker 1: was like a tank essentially in some ways, as we'll see,

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Speaker 1: it was actually superior to a tank. It was crazy

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Speaker 1: what this guy built. And if you have the time

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Speaker 1: and you're not driving right now, just go look up

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Speaker 1: killdozer and get a load of this modified bulldozer that

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Speaker 1: Marv he Meyer created. So, Chuck, I say, let's just

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Speaker 1: dive in. That was a pretty good little setup. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about Marv he Meyern who he was. He was

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Speaker 1: known around town as Marv the muffler man, right.

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Speaker 2: That's right, because he owned a muffler shop. Previous to that,

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Speaker 2: he was in the Air Force. Served in the Air Force,

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Speaker 2: was stationed in Colorado at Lowry Air Force Base, liked Colorado,

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Speaker 2: decided to literally set up shop there. And this is

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Speaker 2: in the early nineties. He moved to Grand Lake near Granby,

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Speaker 2: and you know, pretty soon he got he started getting

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Speaker 2: his feathers ruffled, ruffling feathers in the town kind of

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Speaker 2: right away, it seems like, starting with having a beef

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Speaker 2: against the local newspaper, the sky High News.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so they introduced the concept of legalized gambling in

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Speaker 1: Grand Lake, which is pretty near grand By, and the

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Speaker 1: town was very evenly divided on it. The local newspaper,

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Speaker 1: the sky High News or one of the local newspapers

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Speaker 1: is another one in Grand Lake, came out very heavily

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Speaker 1: against legalized gambling. Marv was very heavily in favor of gambling,

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Speaker 1: so much so that he edited, i think two editions

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Speaker 1: of a newspaper that was created just to tout the

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Speaker 1: benefits of legalized gambling. And so he lost. Like the

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Speaker 1: I think they voted in the area, they voted four

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Speaker 1: to one against legalizing gambling, and it was a bitter defeat.

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Speaker 1: I think to Marv, he seemed like the kind of

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Speaker 1: person who did not accept defeat very well and that

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Speaker 1: it just trigged Stewing in him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair to say, I think. And that was

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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety two. That same year is when he

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Speaker 2: bought some property that would be sort of at the

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Speaker 2: center of his next dispute. It was a couple of

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Speaker 2: acres in western Granby. He bought it at public auction

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Speaker 2: and foreclosure for a little more than forty grand, which

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Speaker 2: turned out to be a great deal. The guy had

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Speaker 2: a really good knack for finding good deals on stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what's funny that you remember the savings and loan scandal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he actually bought it from the FDIC because it was

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Speaker 1: a failed savings and loan bank in town.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, including that big bulldozer that he would end up

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Speaker 2: getting a great deal on.

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Speaker 1: So that was a savings and loan bulldozer.

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Speaker 2: He had a nose for a deal. So he ended

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Speaker 2: up setting up his Mountain View muffler shop. There was

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Speaker 2: apparently a great welder stuff that he brought into the

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Speaker 2: Air Force. It seems like was just really good on

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Speaker 2: machines and motors and engines and welding, and worked for

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Speaker 2: a uffler shop for many years and finally was like,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to open up my own shop as this

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Speaker 2: is happening. There's another local family and this is one

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Speaker 2: of the two two main families that he had beefs with,

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Speaker 2: the dough Chef family, in particular the patriarch I guess

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Speaker 2: of that family, Cody Dochef with his wife Susie and

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Speaker 2: their son Joe, had a concrete factory and they were

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Speaker 2: trying to expand this factory, so they bought up they

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Speaker 2: wanted this property that Marv had bought. They bought up

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Speaker 2: a bunch of land around it still needed more space,

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Speaker 2: and tried to buy Marv's parcel from him that he

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Speaker 2: paid forty two thousand dollars for and initially they had

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Speaker 2: an agreement for two hundred and fifty grand which would

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Speaker 2: have been a really nice take on that land deal

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Speaker 2: for Marv.

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Speaker 1: It would have for sure. And apparently the dough Chefs

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Speaker 1: were at that auction that Marv bought it at and

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Speaker 1: he outbid them, so yeah, they were very interested in

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Speaker 1: this parcel of land. He agreed to that two hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars deal later on, I think that

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Speaker 1: was eight years later, so that is a pretty significant

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Speaker 1: increase in your investment. And then but he changed his mind,

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Speaker 1: he decided that though land was worth more than two

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty grand, apparently kept getting appraisals on it.

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Speaker 1: So it's not like he was just saying, like, no,

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Speaker 1: it's worth a billion dollars, right. He supposedly got appraisals

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Speaker 1: and was like, this land is worth more than two

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty grand. Now, so he said, He said,

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Speaker 1: he backed out of the deal. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: much how far the deal had gotten, but he definitely

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Speaker 1: backed out of an agreement to sell it for two

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty grand.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he ended up asking four hundred. The dough chefs

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Speaker 2: came up with three point fifty, and he said, now

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Speaker 2: I want four to fifty again, he said, because of

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Speaker 2: another reappraisal. I don't I'm not sure about all that stuff, Like,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just basing off kind of what I

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Speaker 2: saw in the documentary and research. I hadn't seen the

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Speaker 2: appraisals or anything, So I don't know if Marv was

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Speaker 2: just like jacking this thing up or not. Who knows.

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Speaker 2: But while this is happening, at least, you know, one

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Speaker 2: of the things we have left to kind of piece

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Speaker 2: us all together is the series of audio tapes that

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Speaker 2: he made on cassette that he mailed to his brother.

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Speaker 2: So the documentary features a lot of those, you know,

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Speaker 2: just firsthand accounts from Marv detailing what's going on. And

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Speaker 2: one of the things he just he didn't like the

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Speaker 2: dough chefs. He said that Cody Docheff, and I guess

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Speaker 2: this was after he had backed out of I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure if it was after he backed out or not,

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Speaker 2: but Cody Docheff at one point basically accosted him in

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Speaker 2: a restaurant and that was one of their first exchanges

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Speaker 2: about this. And Cody Docheff was known as a real

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Speaker 2: hot head in town and Marv you should hear the

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Speaker 2: words that he calls him on those audio tapes. He

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Speaker 2: did not like this guy.

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Speaker 1: Right, that appraisal thing. That's a really good example of

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Speaker 1: the squishiness I guess of this story. It's really difficult

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Speaker 1: to pin down because, yeah, was he just jacking the

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Speaker 1: price up because he didn't like the doe Cheffs. Did

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Speaker 1: he really think that the land was worth that? Did

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Speaker 1: he really get appraisals? You don't know, But that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing completely changes the complexion of it. If he

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Speaker 1: was getting appraisals and the doe Cheffs wouldn't pay the

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Speaker 1: appraised value. That's pretty reasonable. If he was lying about

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Speaker 1: the appraisals and he was just jacking the price up

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Speaker 1: on the doe Cheffs, that kind of makes him look

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Speaker 1: like a jerk. And so that just something that small

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Speaker 1: can make a story like this totally due a one

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Speaker 1: point eighty. And this story is filled with those little

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Speaker 1: kind of details that have either gotten overlooked at it

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Speaker 1: or blown out in proportion.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, So they the dough Chefs end up buying

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Speaker 2: some other land, a business park, and they said, hey,

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Speaker 2: you give us the land where your muffler shop is,

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Speaker 2: and we'll give you the prime lot that's right on

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Speaker 2: the highway, this frontage land where muffler shop is going

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Speaker 2: to do a lot better, get a lot more attention.

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Speaker 2: And he said, all right, I'll take that deal, but

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Speaker 2: you've got to build this muffler shop for me, and

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Speaker 2: that a really expensive one and really kind of highend

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Speaker 2: muffler shop, I guess because that brought it up to

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Speaker 2: about a million bucks. And they said, no, you know

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Speaker 2: that muffler shop. Boy, how long were you waiting on

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Speaker 2: that one?

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Speaker 1: Good thirty seconds.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, I hope most people get that one. At least.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter as long as you've got it. Friend,

219
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:33,200
Speaker 1: Oh I got it.

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Speaker 2: So they said no deal, and he said, all right,

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Speaker 2: then you basically started a war with me, and I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna I'm going to do everything I can to fight

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Speaker 2: the city to make sure that you're not able to

224
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,840
Speaker 2: open up that cement factory that you want to open up,

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Speaker 2: and apparently got a lot of people on the side.

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Speaker 2: There was a lot of opposition in the town that

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Speaker 2: back to Marv against this expansion of the cement or

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00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:01,840
Speaker 2: concrete factory.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So what I don't understand is was there opposition

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Speaker 1: before Marv started this kind of grassroots campaign against it?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, so he didn't just drum that up out

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Speaker 1: of thin air, like not everybody was happy about a

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00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:19,360
Speaker 1: concrete batch creating plant like this is almost in downtown Gramby.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was opposition, but it seems like he really

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Speaker 2: fueled the fire.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, so now you have war between essentially what

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Speaker 1: amounts to two hotheads who are neighbors, and a concrete

239
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Speaker 1: plant is not like a tidy, quiet neighbor to be

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Speaker 1: next to, right, So I'm sure that every sound and

241
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Speaker 1: every clank and every bit of like dust that blew

242
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Speaker 1: his way just made him less and less happy. And

243
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Speaker 1: I guess I don't know. Also, if you said that

244
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Speaker 1: they were buying up the land around him, so ultimately

245
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Speaker 1: his muffler shop was the only little piece of parcel

246
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Speaker 1: left and they were literally building a concrete plant owned

247
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Speaker 1: his muffler shop. And one of the things if somebody

248
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Speaker 1: tells you this, they don't know what they're talking about,

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Speaker 1: and stop listening to them about this. If they tell

250
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Speaker 1: you that when the dough Chets bought the land up

251
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Speaker 1: around him, that they cut off access from the road

252
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Speaker 1: to Marv's muffler shop, basically created an island legally out

253
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Speaker 1: of his muffler shop, that's wrong. That's not correct. He

254
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Speaker 1: always had access and everyone always had access in and

255
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Speaker 1: out of his muffler shop. That's a really big point

256
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Speaker 1: that a lot of people basically say, See, the guy

257
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Speaker 1: had no choice, he couldn't he couldn't run a business

258
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Speaker 1: like that, and that's just not true.

259
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is not true, but that's something you see

260
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,840
Speaker 2: a lot online. So thanks for clearing that up.

261
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Speaker 1: Sure you got anything else, what else you want me, Clear.

262
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Speaker 2: Up, I got a pimple on my shoulder here, No

263
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Speaker 2: take care of them.

264
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Speaker 1: Why did you say that?

265
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Speaker 2: Oh I don't. I don't get pimples. So Marv is

266
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Speaker 2: he's got another problem that's also brewing. So you've got

267
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Speaker 2: this problem with the dough chefs. Then you have the

268
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 2: second issue with the sewer line. In order. His property

269
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,280
Speaker 2: wasn't hooked up to a sewer line. You've got to

270
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,040
Speaker 2: get hooked up to a sewer line if you're going

271
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Speaker 2: to be in compliance. They kind of look the other

272
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,960
Speaker 2: way for many many years when he didn't because it was,

273
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,560
Speaker 2: you know, small town western Colorado. It was sort of

274
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,000
Speaker 2: the wild West, and people would just sort of turn

275
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,400
Speaker 2: a blind eye if someone was making do on their own,

276
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,200
Speaker 2: which he was doing. But he also didn't have a

277
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:37,160
Speaker 2: septic tank, so he started dumping sewage into his concrete mixer,

278
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:42,480
Speaker 2: a concrete mixing tank, big violation. Then when that filled up,

279
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,800
Speaker 2: he started pumping it into the irrigation ditch on the property.

280
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Speaker 2: All he had to do was pay a little bit

281
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,120
Speaker 2: of money at one point to hook up to some

282
00:14:53,160 --> 00:15:01,560
Speaker 2: neighboring sewer lines. But he basically thought that's over the town. Yeah,

283
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,240
Speaker 2: that's the town holding me over a barrel. You shouldn't

284
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,120
Speaker 2: have a resident or a business have to pay for

285
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,960
Speaker 2: their own sewer line, which is a public utility.

286
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Speaker 1: Okay, So I don't know, like the town overlooked this

287
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,000
Speaker 1: for a good decade, maybe twelve years something like that.

288
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,440
Speaker 1: That he was pooping and peeing I guess into a

289
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,000
Speaker 1: bucket or something and dumping it into a cement mixer,

290
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,440
Speaker 1: even if they had a line up to the cemt mixer. Yes,

291
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,240
Speaker 1: that's a huge health code violation. Right. So when that

292
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,800
Speaker 1: concrete plant was built, they ran a sewer line to it, right,

293
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,160
Speaker 1: and that made it way easier and way less expensive

294
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:44,240
Speaker 1: for Marv Hemeyer to connect his muffler shop to that

295
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,920
Speaker 1: sewer line that's now being run from the road to

296
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,280
Speaker 1: this concrete plant next door. Then it would to have

297
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,840
Speaker 1: the city run it from the road to just his

298
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,400
Speaker 1: muffler shop. The problem was this is the Dochef's sewer

299
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,000
Speaker 1: line and it was on their land and for him

300
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,640
Speaker 1: to tap into it, he needed to pay them. So

301
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,720
Speaker 1: they came back with an offer. They said, look, man,

302
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,360
Speaker 1: if you drop all these lawsuits and all this campaign

303
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:12,080
Speaker 1: against us, we will we will let you will give

304
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,760
Speaker 1: you an easement, a maintenance easement to connect to our

305
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,560
Speaker 1: sewer line from your muffler shop free of charge. That

306
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,080
Speaker 1: will be your little strip of land onto our land,

307
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 1: connecting your muffler shop to the main line. You'll be

308
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,920
Speaker 1: in compliance, we won't have this lawsuit against us anymore,

309
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,200
Speaker 1: and we'll just call it a day. And I don't

310
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,000
Speaker 1: believe Marv ever made good on that.

311
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Speaker 2: No, he didn't want to do it. He was done

312
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,680
Speaker 2: with him by that point, basically, so he was like,

313
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Speaker 2: screw this. I'm not hooking up to your sewer line.

314
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Speaker 2: I'm not paying the maybe as high as eighty grand

315
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,880
Speaker 2: to run the four hundred feet to the main sewer line.

316
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Speaker 2: And so he wanted to sell the place. He's like,

317
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,800
Speaker 2: I'm getting out, I'm getting out of this muffler shop

318
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Speaker 2: and I'm going to move. And the town then said, well, hey,

319
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:00,800
Speaker 2: now that we know about all this, you can't even

320
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,159
Speaker 2: sell this thing without a sewer line. So, all of

321
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,879
Speaker 2: a sudden, he was caught between a rock and a

322
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:11,000
Speaker 2: hard place there with this sewer connection. He refuses to

323
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,320
Speaker 2: do it. He ends up being fined one hundred dollars

324
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,800
Speaker 2: a day because of this sewage issue and other violations.

325
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,280
Speaker 2: That were going on, like more than thirty three hundred bucks.

326
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,320
Speaker 2: When he wrote the check to the town, he put

327
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 2: in the memo, it's for the Cowards and Liars Department.

328
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,200
Speaker 2: So this is kind of where things were. This guy

329
00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,719
Speaker 2: is fighting back against the town. He's fighting against these people.

330
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,320
Speaker 2: Whether or not you think it's fair that you have

331
00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,800
Speaker 2: to pay for your own sewer line or not, it's

332
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,520
Speaker 2: the way it was. They weren't singling him out to

333
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,880
Speaker 2: try and screw him over anything. That was just how

334
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,280
Speaker 2: it works. I mean, I've had to replace sewer lines

335
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,920
Speaker 2: and it stinks. It's the worst thing to have to

336
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:51,280
Speaker 2: pay for.

337
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,320
Speaker 1: It stinks literally and figuratively.

338
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,760
Speaker 2: As a homeowner, it wrecks your yard or your property.

339
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:03,159
Speaker 2: It wrecks it's it's awful because it's not. It's just

340
00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,440
Speaker 2: it's expensive. Have you ever had to do it? It

341
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,800
Speaker 2: just writing that check. I've had to do it a

342
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,200
Speaker 2: couple of times. It's awful. In the meantime, we need

343
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,240
Speaker 2: to introduce another family, because he ended up having two

344
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,000
Speaker 2: beefs with two prominent families, the do Chefs and then

345
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:25,080
Speaker 2: the Thompson family, who were had been there forever thereby

346
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,440
Speaker 2: owned tons and tons of the land in the town.

347
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,879
Speaker 2: A guy named the elder Dick Thompson was on the

348
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 2: county board and then became mayor for a while back

349
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,800
Speaker 2: when he was going through all this stuff in the nineties,

350
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,119
Speaker 2: and then he passed away, and he took up this

351
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,920
Speaker 2: beef with his two sons, basically saying like, you owe

352
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,800
Speaker 2: me money because of all this stuff that your dad

353
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 2: and the town board made me go through.

354
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:52,320
Speaker 1: One thing that I couldn't find, and it's one of

355
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,720
Speaker 1: those things that could change the complexion of the whole stories.

356
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,800
Speaker 1: At what point did the sewer thing that the city

357
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,679
Speaker 1: overlooked for a decade or so become a thing? You know?

358
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,720
Speaker 1: Was it connected to the concrete plant? I don't know.

359
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 1: It's just just something that sticks out to me. Yeah,

360
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,920
Speaker 1: So I guess what he did ultimately was he shut

361
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 1: down his muffler shop in two thousand and two and

362
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,280
Speaker 1: he held an auction. He auctioned off all of his equipment.

363
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 1: He sold his property to a local trash company for

364
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,639
Speaker 1: four hundred thousand, which I think what the highest he

365
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,720
Speaker 1: had asked the dough Chuffs for for it. But he said,

366
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,399
Speaker 1: I want to Lisa, this big old metal shed in

367
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,440
Speaker 1: the back. I got to keep a place to keep

368
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 1: my bulldozer, because it's basically the only thing that no

369
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,239
Speaker 1: one bought in the auction of my stuff. So I'm

370
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:38,479
Speaker 1: just going to keep it back here and this will

371
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 1: be my little workshop. That's part of the deal. And

372
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 1: they shook on it, and that's the setup starting around

373
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 1: two thousand and two.

374
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm also not sure how he was able

375
00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,240
Speaker 2: to sell that stuff or sell it given that he

376
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 2: didn't put in the sewer line, because in the documentary

377
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 2: they said that the new owners this trash company, like

378
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 2: within forty eight hours had the sewer line hooked up.

379
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,919
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the city was like, whoever, like,

380
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,440
Speaker 1: this thing can't change hands without somebody agreeing that they're

381
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,679
Speaker 1: going to put maybe the one And that's what I think.

382
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 1: You could probably work that into a legal document.

383
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 2: Probably. So should we take a break.

384
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll take a break and go find out.

385
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 2: All right. We'll be right back after this with more

386
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 2: on the killdozer rampage.

387
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,920
Speaker 1: All right. So remember Marvy Myer's gotten out of the

388
00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 1: muffler business, but he's known around town as an excellent welder,

389
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 1: I mean, just a superior welder. And when he leased

390
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,119
Speaker 1: that little maintenance shed. We'll probably not mate little. But

391
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:10,880
Speaker 1: when he leased the big maintenance shed in the back

392
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,120
Speaker 1: of the property that he had sold to the trash company,

393
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:18,640
Speaker 1: he used it to modify the bulldozer that would later

394
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: become the killdozer. To start out with, it was a

395
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 1: sixty ton Komatsu D three P fifty five a bulldozer, right,

396
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 1: and I mean just as it came out of the

397
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 1: package it was sixty tons. This guy added at least

398
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 1: another twenty tons of reinforcement to it.

399
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:40,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It's not like a little front loader

400
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 2: that you know your landscape person has brought over if

401
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 2: you've ever had your yard done or something dingo. This

402
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 2: is this was a very, very very large bulldozer, which

403
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 2: you can tell and when you see footage when there

404
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 2: are other bulldozers trying to stop it, and this Kamatsu

405
00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,679
Speaker 2: is is clearly clearly larger.

406
00:21:59,760 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 1: Right.

407
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 2: So he buys this thing at auction in California, has

408
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 2: it shipped in July two thousand and two, and starting

409
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 2: at the beginning of two thousand and three, And this

410
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 2: is one of the craziest parts of this whole story

411
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 2: to me, is that this wasn't a guy that got

412
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 2: mad and like had a plan and it sort of

413
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 2: fizzles out after a week or two when you're like,

414
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,679
Speaker 2: all right, well, you know, maybe I'll just watch the

415
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 2: Broncos game and let cooler heads prevail. Like he spent

416
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 2: a year dedicated to this project with this idea, like

417
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 2: planning this thing and equipping this thing. He set up

418
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 2: a cot in a blanket and had a fridge. He

419
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:43,479
Speaker 2: was basically living in this shed basically full time, working

420
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 2: on this thing at night so that people, you know,

421
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 2: this company that bought it, this trash company, they're all

422
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 2: around the place, right, Like an insurance adjuster came to

423
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 2: inspect the shed because it was on the property of

424
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 2: the trash company. He had it behind a tarp and

425
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 2: made up some story about how he was working on

426
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 2: some equipment like air conditioning for some professor, and like

427
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 2: no one ever looked behind it. It fit by an

428
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 2: inch on either side. And he thought this was all

429
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 2: God telling him all these little things that happened that

430
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 2: where he didn't get caught beforehand. He thought was God saying,

431
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 2: this is your mission.

432
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: Right, Marv he Meyer is a great example of why

433
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: we need wives.

434
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: Right. Well, he had a girlfriend for a long time,

435
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 2: and she was all over the documentary. It sounded like

436
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 2: she was Australian or from New Zealand maybe, but Tricia McDonald. Yeah,

437
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: that was kind of one of the sadder parts is

438
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 2: that she seemed like she really liked him, and she

439
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 2: was like, I kind of had no idea that he

440
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 2: was that angry and it was going this far.

441
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, if I remember correctly, she had a little bit

442
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: of self blame maybe going on, or at least wondering

443
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: how things could have turned out differently.

444
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: Well, I think their breakup beforehand might have been one

445
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 2: of the last draws too, and so she may have

446
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 2: felt bad about that.

447
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: Oh, that's another one too. So in addition to his

448
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: muffler shop being completely cut off from access to the

449
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: main road, he also caught his fiance in bed with

450
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: another man. It's another dumb thing you'll find on the

451
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 1: internet from people who don't know what they're talking about. Too. Oh,

452
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: he chalked up to explaining him snapping.

453
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: Oh. One thing I did forget to mention is that

454
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 2: four hundred grand het. He was I guess savvy enough

455
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 2: to know that they could come after that money afterward, Yeah,

456
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 2: to help give people. So he while his father was

457
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 2: still alive. His dad died shortly before, which was another

458
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 2: last straw apparently, but he had given the money to

459
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 2: his father, who then gave the money to his sister

460
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 2: and brother. So it was like two people removed and untouchable.

461
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: I guess, oh wow, yeah, that is pretty savvy.

462
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

463
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: So he's got this kill dozer that he's putting together.

464
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about that. Like I said,

465
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: it was a sixty ton bulldozer, just a big, big boy.

466
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,719
Speaker 1: But on top of that, he he took sheets of

467
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: steel and separated them by about twelve inches and poured

468
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: concrete in the in the space between the two. So

469
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: he made twelve inch on either side twelve inches of

470
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 1: steel with concrete in the middle. Plates that he created,

471
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: essentially a superstructure that he later before his rampage, right

472
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 1: before his rampage lowered on top of the Komatsu itself.

473
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, sealing him in there. He also had gun ports.

474
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: He had a fifty cow rifle, which is if you

475
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 2: just look up what a fifty caliber round looks like,

476
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 2: it's very large and destructive, a three eight semi automatic,

477
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: and then a twenty two long rifle. He also had

478
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 2: a three point fifty seven revolver inside, and he had

479
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: five video cameras mounted on the outside feeding three monitors

480
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: on the inside, and these lenses were protected by three

481
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: inch lexand bulletproof plastic basically. So the small little tiny

482
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 2: ports that were even on this thing were because they

483
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: tried eventually shooting into these were only like two by

484
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: three inches. So even these sharpshooters were having a hard

485
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 2: time getting a bullet in there, and even if they did,

486
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 2: it wasn't it was not effective anyway.

487
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, there were so many layers of this plastic bulletproof

488
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: like cladding. I guess that like, even if they broke

489
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: some of the layers, there was still more layers to

490
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: go through. It was nuts. But there's something I want

491
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: everybody to make note of. He put in those three

492
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: gun ports. Like you said, it's really important because one

493
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 1: of the things that a lot of people use to

494
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: defend Marv is that he was all he wanted was

495
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: property destruction. That's all he was intent on. And there's

496
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: no way to explain away those three gun ports otherwise

497
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: they don't jibe at that narrative at all. Certainly changes

498
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: the complexion of things too.

499
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, as far as like folk hero who

500
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 2: just wanted to direct the business who wrecked his Yeah,

501
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 2: you don't go in there with a fifty.

502
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: Cal no, and I mean you can. He didn't even

503
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: need to defend himself. They couldn't get through this the plating,

504
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: the cladding, And even if he did need to defend himself,

505
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: he certainly didn't need three guns. So there was basically

506
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 1: no reason for those guns to be there aside from

507
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: shooting people.

508
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely they would later obviously, he, like I said,

509
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: he mailed those tapes to his brother right before the attack.

510
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: They ended up finding a list afterward with sort of

511
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: like a hit list for the buildings he wanted to wreck. Obviously,

512
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: the Doe Chefs and the Thompson's were on that list,

513
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: as was the church in town, the Catholic church. That

514
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 2: is because on the tapes he was, or at least

515
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: in this one part, he was very anti Catholic, called

516
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 2: Catholic cowards, and the Thompsons were Catholic, and that was

517
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 2: one of his big beats.

518
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: Gotcha. So again that Dozer Manifesto, they make an amazing

519
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: use of his actual tapes to let him just kind

520
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: of present himself and like you said that he apparently

521
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: believed that God was at the very least looking the

522
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 1: other way and kind of tacitly condoning this mission, if not,

523
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: you know, blessing the mission by all those ways that

524
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: you had said, like people overlooking the dozer, the fact

525
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: that the dozer was the one thing that he wasn't

526
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: able to sell at auction. He even said that God

527
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: told him to take take the winner off, put this

528
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: whole thing off for a year, essentially, and he did.

529
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: He also went on at length about the town that

530
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: he was dealing with and gave his side of the

531
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: story quite clearly, and he said that they use mafia

532
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: type tactics against him. And there's this line from his

533
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: tapes that this is like the people who consider him

534
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: a folk hero point to it said, or he said,

535
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: I was always willing to be reasonable until I had

536
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: to be unreasonable. Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things.

537
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: And it's a just a sweeping thing to say, because

538
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: it completely explains away everything he does after that point,

539
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: and it completely gives him an alibi up to that point.

540
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: He's saying, I know what I'm doing, wrecking the town.

541
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: That's an unreasonable thing, but I have every reason to

542
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: do this. I have a very reasonable reason to do

543
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: this very unreasonable thing. It's really it's a very I

544
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,959
Speaker 1: don't know, it's just nuts how well it encapsulates everything.

545
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: He just kind of lets him off the hook.

546
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. He had also been hassling the paper for

547
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: not covering his story, like he was like, no one's

548
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 2: even writing about my beaf with the sewer line and

549
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: all this stuff. And so they ended up giving him

550
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 2: a free ad. They were like, oh, jeez, this guy,

551
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 2: how about we give you an ad. They came out

552
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 2: and photographed him and gave him a you know, an

553
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 2: ad for his muffler shop, which it turns out wasn't

554
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: enough to appease him. As we'll see, the end of

555
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: his lease was coming up. He had gone through that breakup,

556
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 2: his dad had just died, and so it was it

557
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 2: was game time. Basically. On June fourth, two thousand and four,

558
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 2: he uh, like we said, he sealed himself in that

559
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: cockpit kind of like couldn't get out, basically, and to

560
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:35,479
Speaker 2: what looks like this a bulldozer meets ay the what

561
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 2: were those crawlers called in Star Wars where the Jahwa's

562
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,479
Speaker 2: traded out of it kind of looked like that.

563
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't remember what they're called. I just remember built.

564
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: It was based on a brutalist hotel in Morocco that

565
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: George Lucas saw exactly. And you don't need to write

566
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: in everybody, we can go look it up later.

567
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: Well, you know what it's called John at two pm

568
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: and this was you know, when you see footage of

569
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 2: this thing or watching the documentary, it's this thing goes

570
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 2: four or five miles an hour, So it's a it's

571
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: a different kind of rampage. It's a slow motion rampage

572
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 2: going through town. But this thing was unstoppable, was the issue.

573
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that, I mean, that's a really great way to

574
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: describe it. They, as we'll see, couldn't come up with

575
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: anything to put an end to this. I say, before

576
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: we really get underway with the rampage, we take our

577
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: final break and come back and tell everybody just what happened.

578
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: What do you think?

579
00:31:31,440 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: All right, let's do it. All right, So the rampage starts. Obviously,

580
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: the first people he's going to go after are the

581
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: dough chefs and that concrete plant. When he gets there,

582
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 2: they quickly realize what's going on. Cody Dochef is like,

583
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: that's Marv he Meyer in there, and cops are like,

584
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: are you sure, how do you know? And he's like,

585
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,479
Speaker 2: trust me, it's Marv he Meyer. He tries to stop it.

586
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,719
Speaker 2: He tries shooting a revolver at this thing, which is

587
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 2: just a joke. I guess that's just the first sort

588
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 2: of reaction is like shoot it. Yea in western Colorado

589
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 2: at least, so hey, no shade there by the way,

590
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: But he starts shooting at this thing. He's he's literally

591
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 2: getting in his own This is Cody dochev getting in

592
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: his own little front end loader and driving at it.

593
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 2: He gets he rams aside of it, and he's trying

594
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 2: to lift it up off of the ground because basically

595
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: they're like, we can't. You know, they've tried shooting into

596
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: it already. They know that's not going to work, so

597
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 2: they want to disable those treads. If you can disable

598
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 2: a tank's treads, then you're in business. So they thought

599
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: if they could lift it off the ground, that might work.

600
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: They thought if they jammed this huge steel pole into

601
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: the treads, that that might you know, get stuck or

602
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: throw something out of whack. None of that works, and

603
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: when Cody doe Chef rams this thing and tries to

604
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 2: pick it up, his wheels come off the ground. He

605
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: hits the front windshield and gets knocked out cold and

606
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 2: awakes to bullet fire coming his way.

607
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. That was one thing that MARKI Meyer did was

608
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: he took aim and shot at Cody Deutcheff's his front

609
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: end loader, and there were bullet holes from the fifty

610
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: caliber in the bucket of the front end loader. Astoundingly,

611
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: he didn't hit Cody Dochef and he, I guess left

612
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: the cement plan at this time and started moving toward

613
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: the town. And one of the ways that he got

614
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: to the town was busting through a concrete road barrier,

615
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: a pair of them that I believe some highway patrolmen

616
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: were hiding behind, and they got out of the way just

617
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: in time because that killed those who went right through

618
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: those concrete barriers on its way to downtown Gramby.

619
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he didn't have to go that way. So

620
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 2: that was another instance where he he literally turned left

621
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 2: and headed right toward those guys. And these are cops.

622
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 2: They're bringing in forest service people, they're bringing in larger guns.

623
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 2: They ended up firing about two hundred shots at this thing,

624
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 2: but again they're just firing it at hard and steel

625
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: and so nothing is doing any good. Cody Docheff also

626
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 2: tried to climb up on top of it, but Marp

627
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 2: and I shouldn't be laughing here, but this is the

628
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 2: one part I thought was kind of funny. Marp thought

629
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 2: of that too, and he greased this thing up with

630
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 2: like axle grease, and so Cody Docheff is slipping off

631
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 2: of this thing. Eventually. There is a guy, a deputy

632
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 2: named Glenn Trainor, who climbed up on top of the

633
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 2: building and jumped right on top of the thing, and

634
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: he rode this thing around town. There's footage of this

635
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 2: guy riding this kill dozer around town trying to disable

636
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: it from above.

637
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, under Sheriff Glenn Trainer is typically referred to as

638
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 1: one of the big heroes of the day just for trying.

639
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: Nobody was successful, but a lot of people tried, and

640
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: he definitely risked life and limb essentially to try to

641
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: disable this thing. He found what he thought was a

642
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: weak point into the engine and shot into it a

643
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: bunch of times. Turns out it was a cover for

644
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: the air conditioner that Marv had put onto the bulldozer.

645
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: He also got a flashbran grenade, dropped it down the

646
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 1: exhaust pipe. It blew up. It did absolutely nothing, and

647
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 1: despite yeah being greased, Glenn Trainor hung on until Marv

648
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: he Meyer got the killdozer to the town hall building,

649
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: and Glenn Trainor saw quite clearly he was going to

650
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: be taken along with this thirteen foot tall, eighty ton

651
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 1: bold Those are right into town hall and he would

652
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: not fare very well in that circumstance. So he jumped

653
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,959
Speaker 1: off and rolled onto the grass from that thirteen foot height.

654
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's out of there safely. Like you said,

655
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: he goes after the town hall. It has a local

656
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 2: library in there where who knows whether he knows this

657
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 2: or not, but there were a bunch of kids in

658
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 2: there in a reading program, including the eleven year old

659
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 2: daughter of the mayor at the time, so they're huddling

660
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 2: in the basement. The town has issued a reverse nine

661
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 2: to one one call to basically where they call every

662
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 2: single resident in town at once and say, you know,

663
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 2: shelter in place, or in this case, calling the people

664
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 2: at the library saying get out of there. He then

665
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:52,720
Speaker 2: turns on the bank the Liberty Bank branch, because obviously

666
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 2: he had problems with the banking system there. He then

667
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 2: turns on the newspaper and the Patrick Brower, the editor

668
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: the that he'd been you know, having his newspaper beef with,

669
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 2: is running out the back door as he is collapsing

670
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 2: this building. You know, he gets out in the nick

671
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 2: of time as he's collapsing the building.

672
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and frequently in interviews, Patrick Brower points out that

673
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: had he tripped and fall and he'd be dead, it

674
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: was that close. Yeah, it does seem to have been

675
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 1: that kind of experience for people on the ground during

676
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: this rampage. Somebody would run in shouting like get out,

677
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: get out, and probably didn't even have time to say

678
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: what the heck was coming when the killdozer would come

679
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: crashing through the front of the building, not the front door,

680
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: not a side door. It would come right through the

681
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: front wall or the side wall. And one of the

682
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: things that people pointed out who were there was that

683
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: he would he would come crashing through the front wall

684
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: and it would take out like, you know, the front wall,

685
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: but the roof would still be thinking. So he back

686
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: up and he'd go after a corner of the building,

687
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: so like he was trying to demolish these buildings, he

688
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 1: was making a pretty great attempt at it, and toward

689
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: the end of the rampage he got pretty good at

690
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: taking building out in a couple of swipes.

691
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, So then you know this is a small town.

692
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 2: When he makes a turn toward a thing, they kind

693
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 2: of have a pretty good idea of where he's going

694
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: because of the well known beef. So after he destroys

695
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 2: the newspaper building, he makes a turn and everyone's like

696
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 2: he's going after the Thompsons. He ends up Thelma Thompson,

697
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,720
Speaker 2: eighty two year old widow of former mayor Dick Thompson,

698
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 2: was literally asleep taking a nap thirty minutes before her

699
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: house is just gone because they get her out of there.

700
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 2: He completely destroys her house and then turns toward their business,

701
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: which is the Thompson and Sons excavating business and services,

702
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 2: and starts destroying those buildings.

703
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, he cost them a good million and a half

704
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: dollars I saw to rebuild again, despite the people he

705
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: had the beef with not even being alive any longer.

706
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: But it's how much he hated the Thompson family after

707
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: that The next thing he did, this is a really

708
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: really critical thing that he did that really kind of

709
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: takes away a lot of sympathy I had for him.

710
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: He took out. He drove up to the propane company,

711
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: a local propane company, and uses fifty caliber rifle to

712
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,760
Speaker 1: shoot at propane tanks for small ones, then big ones.

713
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: He tried to shoot in an electrical transformer so that

714
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: the sparks, ostensibly so the sparks would ignite the propane.

715
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: When he shot a propane tank open and the whole

716
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: thing would blow up. And that would have been significant.

717
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: Had this propane company blown up. I saw an estimate

718
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: that everyone within a half mile radius would have been

719
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 1: in danger. The blast would have been that big. Yeah,

720
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: this is downtown. It was as densely packed as the

721
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: town of Gramby could be, So half a mile radius

722
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: is you know, that was a significant thing. And the

723
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: reason why Patrick Brower points this out, and I tend

724
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 1: to agree with him. He takes issue with people who

725
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: are like these were all just warning shots. He just

726
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: wanted to destroy property. He just wanted to blow up

727
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 1: the propane company so that he could destroy more property.

728
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 1: He wasn't trying to kill anybody, And Patrick Brower was like,

729
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: this is no, this is not true. The reason he

730
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,919
Speaker 1: didn't kill anybody was because the way that he had

731
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: mounted the rifles was so kluegy that he had almost

732
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: no chance whatsoever of shooting anybody. Those bulletproof class sights

733
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 1: that you were talking about, like the two by three

734
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 1: inch sights, or they weren't near the guns. The guns

735
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: weren't mounted right by them. The video cameras that he

736
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: was using to kind of drive around with they weren't

737
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: in line with the guns either, So when he was

738
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: aiming the gun, he had to do some sort of

739
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: weird mental topography to kind of figure out what he

740
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: was looking at in relation to the gun and try

741
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: to shoot that way. And Patrick Brower's point is that's

742
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: why no one was shot to death. That's why those

743
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: propaane tanks didn't blow up, that's why the electrical transformer

744
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: didn't blow up because he missed, not because he was

745
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,919
Speaker 1: just firing warning shots. Because he missed. And if those

746
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: guns had been mounted more I guess efficiently, it could

747
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: have been a totally different outcome from this whole event.

748
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. He also, I mean, most of those

749
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 2: bullets didn't even make it out of his own vehicle

750
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 2: because the way he had the big fifty cow mounted,

751
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 2: it ended up hitting his own armor. So you see

752
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 2: like shooting toward this propane thing, and immediately these shots

753
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: are just sort of exploding because I think they were

754
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: some special kind of round or something, and they were

755
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 2: sort of exploding at you know, into his own tank.

756
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,959
Speaker 2: So yeah, and then who knows if he even knew

757
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 2: what was going on, Like, no one knows what he

758
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,720
Speaker 2: could even see inside that thing. So the machines damaged.

759
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 2: At this point, all the anti freeze has dumped out.

760
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 2: There's white smoke just pouring from this thing. There's hydraulic

761
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,479
Speaker 2: fluid leaking all over the place, and it's pretty clear

762
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 2: that like the last gasp is happening. So he heads

763
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 2: down to Gambles of Granby hardware store. There was a

764
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: guy on the town board there related to the hardware

765
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 2: store that approved the concrete plant, and so they were

766
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 2: on the list. And you see this thing chugging along.

767
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 2: It's on its last legs. Somehow remarkably had not failed

768
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: up into that point. Yeah, Like I can't believe at

769
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 2: some point it didn't. Those treads didn't. I guess that's

770
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 2: why the bulldozer there there's you know, it's like a tank.

771
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 2: It's it's supposed to do that, so it was doing

772
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 2: it well. But what he didn't know was that there

773
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 2: was a basement in that hardware store, and eventually that

774
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 2: right front tread slipped down just a couple of feet

775
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 2: just enough into that basement to where the tread had

776
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 2: nothing against it and it was just spinning. So it

777
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: was finally stopped.

778
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, people were walking alongside of this thing for a

779
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: lot of the time, so there were people within earshot

780
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: at this point, and there suddenly comes a muffled gunshot

781
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: from inside the pull the kill dozer, and people were like, well,

782
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that if that's Marv he Meyer who's

783
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: in there, he's no longer with us, and they were correct.

784
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: They the next day they tried to blow a hole

785
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: into the kill dozer, and do you remember at the outset,

786
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: I said that it was probably superior to a tank.

787
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:28,879
Speaker 1: The reason I said that is because the swat team

788
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: who was creating this explosive charge to try to breach it,

789
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: they consulted with some explosive experts who told them what

790
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: charge to create to blow a hole in the side

791
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: of a tank and it didn't work. Yeah, the explosive

792
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 1: charge that could blow a hole in a tank did

793
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: not blow a hole in the kill dozer. That's how

794
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: thick and well welded this superstructure over the bulldozer was.

795
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: So nobody was killed or injured in this thing, which

796
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 2: was remarkable considering what was happening. It was a little

797
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 2: over two hours, up to seven million dollars in damage.

798
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 2: I think eleven of the thirteen buildings were occupied at

799
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 2: the time, and like you said, people were literally running

800
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 2: out the back door for a lot of these and

801
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 2: that was it. You know, the guy ends up, you know,

802
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 2: they take this tank apart, and they didn't want any

803
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 2: memory of it in town, so they take it apart,

804
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 2: get rid of the parts. I think one of them

805
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,800
Speaker 2: ended up staying with the Thompson family, like one small part, Yeah.

806
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: A trunion I think, something that connects the bucket to

807
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 1: the rest of the dozer that had broken off when

808
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: he came crashing through their house.

809
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. But aside from that, people basically wanted to forget

810
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 2: about it, and with the help of you know, insurance

811
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 2: and everything, they ended up rebuilding everything. Not that it

812
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 2: wasn't at great personal cost as well, of course, but

813
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 2: Marv was gone and they were really eager to move

814
00:44:59,000 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 2: on for the most part as it.

815
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, Casey Farrell, who owned Gamble's hardware store, it took

816
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: him seven years because his store was insured, but it

817
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: wasn't insured for the kind of money it takes to

818
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:13,280
Speaker 1: rebuild after a dozer rampage. But I guess the Denver

819
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: Post visited a year after on the anniversary of it

820
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: to do a story, and they found that most of

821
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: the buildings had either been rebuilt or were in the

822
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: process of rebuilding. And I believe the mayor at the

823
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 1: time this, I guess this would have been a year after.

824
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: A guy named Ted Wang. He said that the whole

825
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 1: rampage had actually inspired the town to become tighter as

826
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: a community, Like more people became involved in local politics,

827
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 1: and the town just kind of like took pride in

828
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: its own resurrection and rebuilding itself brick from brick, which

829
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,760
Speaker 1: is essentially I guess, the opposite of what Marvy Meyer

830
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: would have wanted from his rampage.

831
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, probably, And you know the narrative that

832
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 2: you hinted at early was still lives on for a

833
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: lot of people. A lot of people think this guy's

834
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 2: a folk hero, probably not surprisingly a lot of those

835
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 2: people on the very far right of the political spectrum,

836
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 2: and say, you know, this was a guy taking down,

837
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 2: you know, his local government that was being he was

838
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 2: a victim of his local government, and he was taking

839
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 2: them out, you know, doing what we all want to

840
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 2: do on any given day. And people still celebrate June

841
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 2: fourth is Killedozer Day in some of those circles.

842
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so, you know, doing research on this, I

843
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: just got less and less sympathetic with the guy and

844
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: really just came to dislike him. And then I came

845
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: across that Dozer Manifesto webcomic by mister V and just

846
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: reading some of it, I was like, well, I'm not

847
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: exactly sure how I think about this whole thing, and

848
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: I think I don't have enough information about what really

849
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: went on in that town or didn't go on to

850
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: decide one way or another, and get I don't think

851
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 1: that matters, But I just thought it was interesting that

852
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 1: I had an about face. I guess, yeah, I find

853
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: it interesting when I think of my thoughts.

854
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 2: There was no one is quite sure who came up

855
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 2: with the name kill Dozer in terms of this case,

856
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 2: but there was obviously the band kill Dozer got to

857
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 2: shout them out from Madison, Wisconsin, Okay, and they may have.

858
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 2: I think they were the early eighties where they before

859
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 2: or after the movie, because when they're a movie as well.

860
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: There was a movie called kill Dozer from nineteen seventy four.

861
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: It was the ABC Suspense Saturday Suspense TV movie that

862
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: was based on a nineteen forty four short story by

863
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: fantasy writer Theodore Sturgeon.

864
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 2: Okay, so I bet kill Those are the band named

865
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,439
Speaker 2: themselves after. That would be mine, I would think.

866
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,919
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't understand why. It's like, well, where

867
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: did the name come from? Like kill those? Like you

868
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: would just look at that thing and be like, that's

869
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: a kill dozer without ever hearing that word together. It's

870
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 1: not like some great mystery like that's a kill dozer.

871
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: That's just what you call that thing. Humans have some

872
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 1: sort of innate genetic understanding of seeing that thing and

873
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: knowing that it's a kill dozer without ever seeing that

874
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: word before.

875
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, though it didn't kill, No.

876
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 1: It didn't. That's a great point. So it's a I

877
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: guess destroy dozer is a better one, yeah, or a bulldozer.

878
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. If you want to know more about kill Dozer,

879
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 1: there's plenty of stuff to read and watch on the internet.

880
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: Just be wary. Hopefully we've armed you with a little

881
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: bit of info to measure against. And since I said that,

882
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: it's time of course for a listener mail.

883
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and watch Tread You can rent it. I think

884
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,760
Speaker 2: it's free on two V and some other stuff.

885
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: But it is really well done. It's a great documentary.

886
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 2: Well, he does these recreations that I guess are CGI,

887
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 2: but it looked to me like I was like, man,

888
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 2: did they actually build another kill dozer replica to shoot

889
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 2: the stuff?

890
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 1: Yeah? It was one of those few documentaries that had

891
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty million dollar budget.

892
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 2: Not sure, but it looked good. And it's only like

893
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 2: ninety eight minutes long or less than that eighty eight

894
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 2: minutes ninety It's it's definitely worth seeing, all right, Listener Mail.

895
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 2: Dangers of Whistling. Hey, guys, just finish that episode. And

896
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 2: I thought you were going to mention the one thing

897
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,439
Speaker 2: about not whistling in a theater. Not one hundred percent

898
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 2: sure of the veracity of the history of this, but

899
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 2: old theater. Legend has it that early stage hands were

900
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 2: also sailors and or dock workers who communicated in whistles,

901
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 2: and therefore, if you were a casual bystander whistling in

902
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 2: a theater, you could actually cause an accident through miscommunication.

903
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 2: As with some of other superstitions in the theater, this

904
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 2: one is based more on safety than anything else, and

905
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 2: I always find it fascinating. The concept of bad luck

906
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 2: was apparently effective for early safety compliance. Thanks for keeping

907
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 2: me entertained on my long LA commutes. And that is

908
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 2: from Claudia, who was a stage hand in Los Angeles.

909
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: Awesome. Thanks a lot, Claudia. I feel like we talked

910
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 1: about that. It came across it in research or something

911
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: like that. I don't know if it was related to

912
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: whistling or what, but had to do with salty sea

913
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: dogs moonlighting as stage hands for the theater.

914
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 2: Oh I remember that? Yeah?

915
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: All right, Well, thanks Claudia for getting in touch. And

916
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: if you want to be like Claudia and share something

917
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: awesome and interesting with us, we'd love that you can

918
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 1: wrap it up, spank it on the bottom, and send

919
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: it on its way to stuff. Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

920
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

921
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

922
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 2: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.