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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You From how Supports

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline

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Speaker 1: and I'm Kristen, and we're leading up to Mother's Day

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Speaker 1: by talking about pregnancy. Look better way to what you

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Speaker 1: introduce Mother's Day, you guys than to talk about having babies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: except we're not quite talking about having babies. We're more

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Speaker 1: talking about the loaded terrible stuff that can come along

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Speaker 1: with being pregnant and then having the baby in terms

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Speaker 1: of people just judging your body all the time, loaded

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Speaker 1: terrible stuff. Happy Mother's Day, everyone, alright, invite us over

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Speaker 1: to you on Mother's Day brunch. Well, I'm in the

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Speaker 1: place up. Just give us some mimosas we'll be cheerful. Well.

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Speaker 1: In this episode, though, we're focusing in on the phenomenon

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Speaker 1: of the baby bump, calling it a phenomenon not because

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Speaker 1: baby bumps are new, but the terminology baby bump is

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Speaker 1: new in our celebrified lexicon. And leading up to this podcast,

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Speaker 1: Caroline I mentioned to some people that we were gonna

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Speaker 1: be talking about baby bumps, and faces immediately went blank.

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Speaker 1: My fiance had no idea what a baby bump. It

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Speaker 1: seems like what a baby bump. You thought maybe it

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Speaker 1: was some kind of childcare accessory. It's like a speed

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Speaker 1: bump that you put outside your house after you've had

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Speaker 1: a baby. Yes, slow down, here's a bit that's a

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Speaker 1: good idea. Thank you, baby bus Sninty branded baby bump. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but until we start building our our baby bump empire.

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Speaker 1: This baby bump is the one that celebrities get when

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Speaker 1: they are a little bit pregnant, and there's even a

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Speaker 1: bump watch leading up to a full on baby bump.

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Speaker 1: There's a bump watch. Celebrities are put on bump watch.

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Speaker 1: Gossip bloggers put on their urban camo and they go

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Speaker 1: out with the binoculars to stare at celebrities midsections. Yea,

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Speaker 1: was it a burrito or was it a baby? But Caroline.

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Speaker 1: One thing that I discovered in this podcast research about

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Speaker 1: baby bumps that has nothing to do with celebrities, is

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Speaker 1: how we now celebrate the baby bump, sometimes by painting

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Speaker 1: the baby bump. This is a thing. This is a thing.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know this was a thing. Yeah, you can

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Speaker 1: go to an art fair and while your kid, your

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Speaker 1: other kid gets his or her face painted, you and

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Speaker 1: your future child can get your baby bump painted. Yes,

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Speaker 1: just Google painted baby bumps, and I can't guarantee that

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Speaker 1: you won't regret it, but it's fascinating because one of

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Speaker 1: the one of the Google image results was a woman

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming who has twins who had too little, little

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Speaker 1: developing fetuses painted on her in great detail. One said

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Speaker 1: little gentleman, which that was my favorite, hands down. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I just kind of want to get little gentlemen painted

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Speaker 1: on my my burrito bump sometime your food baby. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and um, you know, at the risk of offending a

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Speaker 1: few people. I remember going into this coffee shop in

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Speaker 1: Augusta that featured a whole bunch of plaster casts of

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Speaker 1: baby bumps. And the thing is, like, they the casts

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Speaker 1: of themselves are not weird. But I'm telling you, when

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Speaker 1: you're standing in a coffee shop looking up at the

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Speaker 1: ceiling and there's a whole bunch of plaster casts of

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Speaker 1: things that are painted and you're like, I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: what the Oh that's boobs in a pregnant belly, I

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Speaker 1: get it. It's jarring. And I have a feeling that

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Speaker 1: as also to women who have never been pregnant. Speaking

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Speaker 1: about this, one of the additional factors that might have

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Speaker 1: surprised sas so much about these baby bumps being on

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Speaker 1: display so much. Is that. I mean, when you think

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Speaker 1: about maternity clothing for so long, it's all been about camouflage.

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Speaker 1: I mean, go back even only a few decades, and

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Speaker 1: pregnant women were really not supposed to leave the house

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Speaker 1: all that much. It was considered improper because pregnancy requires

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Speaker 1: a lot of times if you're not using in vitro

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Speaker 1: or things like that, there is usually some kind of

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Speaker 1: sexual intercourse involved, and simply by virtue of that, you

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Speaker 1: keep the just wait until the baby is ill. Well,

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Speaker 1: even in the well, I was gonna say even in

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Speaker 1: the past twenty years, but then I just remembered that

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Speaker 1: I'm thirty one. So even in the past thirty or

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Speaker 1: so years, things have changed. Because especially if you compare,

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Speaker 1: for instance, Princess Diana with Kate Middleton and you look

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Speaker 1: at their maternity where Kate Middleton features very prominently in

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Speaker 1: all of this baby bump versus post pregnancy weight discussion. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, Diana was wearing all these very very voluminous

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Speaker 1: i'll see maternity clothes, whereas Kate is you know, she's

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Speaker 1: all like in her cute little show it off clothes. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it seems far more common to show it off, and

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Speaker 1: it's something that we see in tabloids as well as

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Speaker 1: just women's magazines in general. There is this be proud

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Speaker 1: of your baby bump thing happening, but there is also

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Speaker 1: this undercurrent of we're watching your body. Yeah, and especially

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Speaker 1: if your celebrity, and if you go all the way

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Speaker 1: back to there is a particular magazine cover that is

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Speaker 1: seared seared, I tell you into my memory, like I

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Speaker 1: was surprised to realize that this magazine covers from because

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Speaker 1: I remember it so clearly. It was to me more

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Speaker 1: of course, on the cover of Vanity Fair. And since

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Speaker 1: then she she's far from alone in this. Since then,

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Speaker 1: she's been joined by a ton of naked cover moms,

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Speaker 1: including most recently Carrie Walsh Jennings on the cover of

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Speaker 1: ESPN magazine in July. But she was followed back in

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Speaker 1: the nineties by Cindy Crawford, who did her own kind

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Speaker 1: of similar I think she's even facing in the same direction,

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Speaker 1: similar nude cover for Debut magazine. Yeah, and in case

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Speaker 1: people haven't seen this Vanity Fair cover, it was shot

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Speaker 1: by Annie Leewwitz, and it's to me more naked in profile,

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Speaker 1: holding her breasts and her belly, and she's wearing a

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Speaker 1: little bit of jewelry. And people at the time were

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Speaker 1: scandalized by this because some said that it was hyper

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Speaker 1: sexualizing a pregnant woman because there we have, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: that conflict between that that Madonna whore dichotomy. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: is interesting reading about all of this pregnancy stuff and

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Speaker 1: body image stuff, how the narrative is very much like

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Speaker 1: you're a sex object. You're a sex object. You're a

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Speaker 1: sex object. Oh wait, you're pregnant. Okay, you're not for

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Speaker 1: like a minute, and then okay, now that you've had

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Speaker 1: the baby, like go back to being a sex object.

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Speaker 1: Why haven't you lost the weight yet? Exactly. And it

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Speaker 1: is like when you were sending me all of those

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Speaker 1: images of this to me more cover that has essentially

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Speaker 1: been recreated over and over and over again to where

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Speaker 1: now when we see pregnant celebrity in some you know,

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Speaker 1: level of undressed posing on the cover of a magazine,

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Speaker 1: it's old news. It's like okay, yeah, yeah, okay, we've

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Speaker 1: seen that before. Yeah, so your belly is bumping, all right,

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Speaker 1: good for you. I guess well, No, I did have

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Speaker 1: a weird reaction that a Christina Aguilera is Marie Claire

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Speaker 1: cover from two thousand and eight, because she's naked except

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Speaker 1: for a leather jacket, and it just made me think

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Speaker 1: of like Donald Duck, Like why isn't Donald Duck wearing pants?

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Speaker 1: He's wearing a shirt. It's kind of weird. Like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know Christina either like being do a nude cover

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Speaker 1: or don't well, listen Caroline if when that's me on

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Speaker 1: the cover of podcast Monthly, I'm gonna bean naked except

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Speaker 1: for shoulder pads, just just shoulders and headphones. Don't forget

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Speaker 1: the headphones. But of course, conversations about a woman's pregnant

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Speaker 1: body isn't new. This isn't something that celebrity tabloids invented.

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Speaker 1: We are at a new point in this conversation, it

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Speaker 1: seems like in terms of visibility, but this discussion about

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Speaker 1: pregnancy has certainly evolved with and without the help of tabloids. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Jane Reynolds in March read about this over at mic

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Speaker 1: dot com, and she said that acknowledging pregnancy meant and

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Speaker 1: has meant in the past. Acknowledging female sexuality, so expecting

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Speaker 1: women were expected to hide their growing stomachs, and it

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Speaker 1: was really to the point where women in the workplace

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Speaker 1: had to hide their pregnant bellies for fear of being

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Speaker 1: fired if they were visibly pregnant, because keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: we did not get the Pregnancy Discrimine Nation Act until

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight. But we will get into kind of

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Speaker 1: the modern state of affairs about pregnant women in just

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Speaker 1: a minute. But by talking about the bump itself, that

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Speaker 1: pregnant belly that women for so long have felt the

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Speaker 1: need to hide, Dvora Myers over at Slate says, hey, well,

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Speaker 1: this just means that we're focused on the here and now,

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Speaker 1: i e. The woman's body, and not just what's to

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Speaker 1: come the baby. She says, quote, it refers entirely to

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Speaker 1: the landscape of the woman's body and preserves the idea

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Speaker 1: that she is a single, autonomous person who can still say,

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Speaker 1: go out late if she wants to. To that, I say,

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Speaker 1: does it really like? I guess that it kind of

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Speaker 1: indicates that the woman is autonomous, but it also is

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Speaker 1: just like talking about her body parts separately from her Well,

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Speaker 1: and to that point, Myers quotes zeb Eisenberg, who wrote

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Speaker 1: a doctoral dissertation at Yale on the history of pregnancy

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Speaker 1: in America, who talks about how the term bump indicates quote,

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Speaker 1: more legitimacy and more permission to speak about it than

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Speaker 1: other euphemisms that were in practice in circulation fifty years ago.

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Speaker 1: And now inevitably we have to mention I Love Lucy

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Speaker 1: and how Lucille Ball's pregnancy on television really got the

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Speaker 1: ball rolling in terms of these changing attitudes towards being

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Speaker 1: pregnant in public, because in two during the filming of

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Speaker 1: the second season of I Love Lucy, which was massively popular,

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Speaker 1: she gets pregnant with little Ricky, and the network doesn't

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Speaker 1: know what to do about it, because again, this is

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Speaker 1: the era when pregnant women are really expected to stay

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Speaker 1: out of the public eye, and so they certainly couldn't

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Speaker 1: say pregnant outright on the air because that was also

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Speaker 1: deemed too crass. And so they decide that, okay, we'll

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Speaker 1: just say that she's expecting, and so they worked the

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Speaker 1: pregnancy into the sea been and in fact, the episode

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Speaker 1: where she has little Ricky was one of like the

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Speaker 1: highest rated TV shows at that point in television history.

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Speaker 1: So people are like, oh wait, okay, so we aren't

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Speaker 1: terrified by this, We aren't terrified of what the female

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Speaker 1: body can do. And now we have the Duggers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've got teen Mom on MTV or do

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Speaker 1: we still is that still a thing? We had it?

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Speaker 1: Team Moms are totally still there, whether whether they're they

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Speaker 1: the Life after teen Moms them, well, they became celebrities

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Speaker 1: because of that. We've given the Duggers a TV show

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Speaker 1: that's totally literally completely centered around reproduction having babies. And

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Speaker 1: then you know, we obsess over celebrities bodies and their

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Speaker 1: baby bumps as if we have any steak in what happens.

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Speaker 1: To the point though, with the Duggers and the celebrity

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Speaker 1: baby bumps. So our celebrity culture has celebrified the Duggers,

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Speaker 1: one of whom not the mom, one of the daughters

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Speaker 1: who just had her first baby. So it's this the

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Speaker 1: cycle begins a new and we we're talking about celebrities

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Speaker 1: and tabloid culture more than we usually do on this

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Speaker 1: podcast because this very idea came to mind just from

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Speaker 1: seeing so many US Weekly covers of the Bump Watch.

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Speaker 1: You cannot look in any tabloid today or on any

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Speaker 1: kind of TMZ related celebrity blog and not see something

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Speaker 1: about some celebrity pregnancy. Yeah, because it's all the thing

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Speaker 1: is that the tablets, it's all couched in some level

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Speaker 1: of judgment about some level of some person's life. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if if a woman is wearing a blousey shirt, is

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Speaker 1: she pregnant? Well, if she's pregnant, who's the father? And

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Speaker 1: like if she married, you know, is this an affair?

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Speaker 1: There's all sorts of weird judgments that go on about

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Speaker 1: people that we don't even know. Yeah. I mean when

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Speaker 1: it came to Mila Kunas getting pregnant via Ashton Kutcher,

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Speaker 1: that is such a sterile way to put it. I know,

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Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's set off all of those kinds

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Speaker 1: of conversations and then also going back bring it full

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Speaker 1: circle for our conversation already to de me more, what

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Speaker 1: does she thinks? Yeah, Mela Cunas is pregnant now, So

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Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's just more fodder for the tabloids.

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Speaker 1: And for that reason, not surprisingly, credit for the term

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Speaker 1: bump watch goes to tabloid editor Bonnie Fuller, who apparently

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Speaker 1: coined the term in two thousand two while working at

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Speaker 1: US Weekly. Some say it's older, but we'll give the

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Speaker 1: credit to Bonnie. Yeah, Devora Myers, that's late describes describes

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Speaker 1: Fuller as pursuing photographs of pregnant celebrities in action with

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Speaker 1: a missionary zeal and you just why, why why Because

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Speaker 1: we buy the magazines. That's why we look. We look,

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Speaker 1: I look at those those pictures. Yeah. Yeah, because if

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Speaker 1: you just google showing off baby bump, you end up

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Speaker 1: getting pages upon pages upon endless Google pages of really

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Speaker 1: just non news items with headlines that say, you know,

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Speaker 1: literally fill in the blank shows off her baby bump. Um.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is, like, while some of them do

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Speaker 1: feature post pictures, so maybe she's in a magazine, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe she is like actually posing for the camera. Or

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Speaker 1: if you're Hilarious Baldwin, Alec Baldwin's wife, you are quote

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Speaker 1: looking ready to pop and nothing but lingerie. Others are

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Speaker 1: literally literally just paparazzi pictures of women walking outside. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this was the funniest thing to note in looking at

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Speaker 1: all of these different sources all at one time, the

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Speaker 1: phrase showing off, showing off, showing off comes up over

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Speaker 1: and over again, when clearly they're just women getting groceries,

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Speaker 1: walking the dog, going about their business who happened to

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Speaker 1: be pregnant. But that, just like exiting your house while pregnant,

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Speaker 1: is showing off apparently, at least in tap woid speak. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And one that really jumped out to me was an

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Speaker 1: US Weekly story about Haley Duff Bless her heart. So

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Speaker 1: there's this giant headline from April early April that proclaimed,

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Speaker 1: in size like thirty eight font Haley Duff shows off

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Speaker 1: growing baby bump, Comma goes without makeup. And so here

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Speaker 1: are my quibbles. Number one, showing off, she was literally,

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Speaker 1: just like we said, walking outside. Uh. Quibble number two,

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Speaker 1: you really have to point out in a headline, which

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Speaker 1: are supposed to be like the newsiest grabby ist lines

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Speaker 1: to sum up an article. Side note, we are both

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Speaker 1: in the journalists and school graduates, so it comes out

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Speaker 1: from time to time. It does, and so pointing out

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Speaker 1: that she doesn't have makeup in the headline almost gave

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Speaker 1: me a fit. And then number three, if you actually

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Speaker 1: take the brain numbing time to read the quote unquote article,

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Speaker 1: it helpfully points out that she quote kept her blonde

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Speaker 1: locks up in a messy ponytail, how much like sort

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Speaker 1: of like backhanded complimenting of like, Oh, look at this

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Speaker 1: wonderful pregnant woman fending for herself out in the wild

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Speaker 1: of Los Angeles, and that messy ponytail swept her old

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Speaker 1: hair up in a dustbin and threw it on her head.

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Speaker 1: What a mess? Also, Caroline, this is making me really

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Speaker 1: want to do some sort of episode where we just

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Speaker 1: read tabloids but interpret it as such as in reality. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's the way the way that tabloids talk

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Speaker 1: about women in general is horrifying, but the way they

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Speaker 1: talk about pregnant women specifically is uh, life and soul crushing.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is, Caroline, this is happening all over

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Speaker 1: the place in tabloids because it sells. Mean clearly, if

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Speaker 1: these magazines weren't getting eyeballs and making money off of it,

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't be doing it so much. The bump watch

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Speaker 1: would not be a thing. So the question in that

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Speaker 1: we must address next is what's up with our obsession?

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Speaker 1: We can blame the Bonnie Fullers and the US weeklies

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Speaker 1: of the world all we want, but if we are

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Speaker 1: also consuming this content, then what is up with us,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to talk all about that when we

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Speaker 1: come right back from a quick break and now back

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Speaker 1: to the show. Well, so I was really interested reading

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Speaker 1: all of these sources, and by sources, I mean us

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Speaker 1: weekly articles. I was really wondering, are we obsessed with

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Speaker 1: these celebrities and their bumps because they're putting it out

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Speaker 1: there for us to see because so many of them

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Speaker 1: are posing naked on magazine covers. Are we just witnessing

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Speaker 1: rich and famous women trying to reclaim a sense of

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Speaker 1: self for sexuality during their pregnancy, or are these celebrities

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Speaker 1: just following a larger cultural movement. Are they looking at

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Speaker 1: Pinterest too, at all of the style your bump pages

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Speaker 1: on Finterest and following that larger example. I want to know,

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Speaker 1: And so, what is up with why we're so obsessed?

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Speaker 1: Kristen so Leonora Sknazzie riding over at the New York

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Speaker 1: Sun in two thousand and eight suspects that there's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of schadenfreud at work because everybody feels compelled

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Speaker 1: to comment on what has now become sort of an accessory,

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Speaker 1: a celebrity accessory. You have your broken bag and you

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Speaker 1: have your baby bump at some point, But she also

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Speaker 1: thinks that it quote stems from the simple fun of

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Speaker 1: seeing stars fat. Yeah, I mean I would buy it.

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Speaker 1: I had a friend in high school who, for like

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Speaker 1: I guess, like daily inspiration, kept a picture in her

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Speaker 1: locker of Gwyneth Paltrow not looking spelt, and this somehow

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Speaker 1: inspired her. So I get it. I get like the

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Speaker 1: schadenfreud of of saying at celebrities fat, But why would

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Speaker 1: you ever call a pregnant woman that is? It's a

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Speaker 1: little it's also soul crushing. It is well, and also

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Speaker 1: soul crushing. Is this cycle of obsession with the body

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Speaker 1: parts of people that we don't actually know that you

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Speaker 1: helpfully drew out with lots of arrows for me. Can

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Speaker 1: you please walk us through this cycle? Yeah? Well, basically,

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Speaker 1: the way that Scanazi explains it is so we as

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Speaker 1: consumers are immersed in celebrity gossip culture. We can't escape it.

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Speaker 1: You know, you see these images of these beautiful couples

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Speaker 1: making babies. How do they make babies by just being beautiful?

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Speaker 1: By bumping their iPhones? That's right, They exchange data and

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Speaker 1: and the baby comes out nine months later exactly. They

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Speaker 1: facts it to you, um, two people facts I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Uh So we start to look at them as like

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Speaker 1: the cool kids in high school. You know, we we

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Speaker 1: know them, but they're still separated from us. They're distant

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Speaker 1: from us. The tabloids know we have this interest. They

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Speaker 1: need money and they need stories to cover. And lo

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Speaker 1: and behold, you have a pregnancy, which is like nine

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Speaker 1: months worth of stories. Because okay, so you've you've got

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the doing it like we mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: are they married, are they having an affair? Did he

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Speaker 1: leave her for a younger woman, are they too young,

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Speaker 1: too old? Whatever, You've got the pregnancy itself, so you've

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Speaker 1: got endless stories about pregnancy, fashion, health scares, beauty secrets.

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Speaker 1: How much oil is she rubbing on her belly? Is

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Speaker 1: she gonna wear a bathing suit? How much weight is

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Speaker 1: she gaining. We've got the actual birth itself, so you

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Speaker 1: know everybody's clamoring to pay celebrities for those first pictures.

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Speaker 1: Then you've got the awful discussion about post baby weight.

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Speaker 1: You've got all the body police and which, of course

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Speaker 1: will be our next episode. And then you've got endless

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Speaker 1: years of watching these children grow up, and we end

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Speaker 1: up being caught in this crazy persons cycle of obsession

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Speaker 1: with like Kris and said, just Stranger's body parts, which

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Speaker 1: makes complete sense. An evolutionary cycle just would tell you

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Speaker 1: the humans are innately interested in the goings on of

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Speaker 1: higher status individuals, and in this day and age, celebrities

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Speaker 1: are that. And even if you go back to the

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Speaker 1: era when royalty really meant something, when that was how

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Speaker 1: power flowed, they had their own bump watches, so to speak,

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Speaker 1: to find out whether it would be a boy or

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Speaker 1: a girl. They simply didn't have, you know, Twitter and

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Speaker 1: tmz to really fan the flames. So it's not surprising

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Speaker 1: that we would be so invested in the development of

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Speaker 1: babies that we will never make whose diapers we will

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Speaker 1: never change, thank god, um I mean. Scanazzi points out

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Speaker 1: also that in our quote every day regular schlub life

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Speaker 1: pregnancies are getting ever more attention. Our famous fetus focus

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Speaker 1: is just part of this whole child centric word all

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Speaker 1: that we're getting caught up in. She points to things

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Speaker 1: like what to expect when you're expecting the book and

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Speaker 1: the whole sort of cult that grew up around the

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Speaker 1: book and now the film and now the film which

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Speaker 1: was filmed here in Atlanta. I haven't seen it though

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Speaker 1: it didn't want to um and then the follow up

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Speaker 1: book Your Pregnancy Week by Week. Things like this are

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Speaker 1: just sort of entering the culture and encouraging us to

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Speaker 1: be helicopter parents before the baby even gets here. So

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Speaker 1: we're obsessed with our own babies in our own bodies.

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Speaker 1: Not that you shouldn't be interested in your own baby

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Speaker 1: in your own body, but it's sort of just all

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Speaker 1: kind of bleeds out together to where we're now obsessed

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Speaker 1: with other people's babies and are you are you treating

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Speaker 1: that baby right in your stomach? We have taken absolutely

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Speaker 1: a cute i think, from celebrity culture in terms of

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Speaker 1: ritualizing the start to finish of pregnancy to childbirth in

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Speaker 1: our own day to day lives. We talked about this

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Speaker 1: in our podcast on gender reveal parties. The very practice

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Speaker 1: of making the baby bump cast, having your your belly painted,

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Speaker 1: all of the moment by moment information and sonograms and yes,

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Speaker 1: even plus center pictures that are sometimes posted on people's

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Speaker 1: Facebook feeds, so it's it isn't just celebrity tabloids. It's

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Speaker 1: really fascinating though, that with these tools that we've been

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Speaker 1: given to broadcast our lives as much as we want.

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Speaker 1: We have elected to take it this far. And someone

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Speaker 1: say there's nothing there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm

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Speaker 1: celebrating my pregnancy and my forthcoming baby. Let me do

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Speaker 1: what I want. And sure, that's totally fine, But I

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Speaker 1: think it does speak to something larger, perhaps, especially when

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Speaker 1: it comes to how we talk about those bumps, like

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Speaker 1: what you said of breaking down these body parts, talking

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Speaker 1: about women in terms of apart rather than the whole, right,

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Speaker 1: And I mean, I think there's a difference between you,

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Speaker 1: as a pregnant woman wanting to claim whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: your your motherhood or your sexuality, or your sense of self,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, and doing things like maybe making a

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Speaker 1: cast of your bump or painting it or just posting

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Speaker 1: pictures on the internet whatever um versus the way that others,

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Speaker 1: particularly strangers, will look at you and talk about you.

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Speaker 1: And this is another thing that Scanazi points out, that

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Speaker 1: we're basically treating women, particularly celebrities, but also just women

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Speaker 1: on the street like Prize livestock. She says, we are

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Speaker 1: reducing them to their most basic biological beings, and there

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Speaker 1: is certainly something reprehensible and shot and freudy about headlines like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a celebrity being desperate to get pregnant, but

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Speaker 1: I mean focusing specifically on that whole animalistic thing. I

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Speaker 1: thought this two thousand seven study in media psychology was

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Speaker 1: really interesting. They talked about how we view pregnant women

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Speaker 1: and asked people about their views on pregnancy, and they

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Speaker 1: found out that we tend to view pregnant women negatively

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Speaker 1: because pregnancy quote highlights the creature early aspects of humanity,

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Speaker 1: and that we do not like to face facts that

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Speaker 1: we're basically animals filled with fluids, fluid filled animals, fluid

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Speaker 1: filled animals. And when the researchers primed participants to think

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Speaker 1: of the similarities between humans and animals, participants were likelier

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Speaker 1: to judge, we're not making this up, a pregnant one

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Speaker 1: of Paltrow to be less competent, which this this study

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Speaker 1: came out pregup, so speaking of fluids. So but but that,

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Speaker 1: but that makes it all the more, all the more fascinating.

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Speaker 1: It does make it all the more fascinating, But it

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Speaker 1: also kind of explains like the squick factor that a

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Speaker 1: lot of people have with pregnancy. So I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: one thing to also judge women for how their body looks,

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Speaker 1: but also people who are grossed out by pregnancy. I

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Speaker 1: think this animalistic thing sort of ties into that as well.

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Speaker 1: And due to all of that, Jane Reynolds over at

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Speaker 1: mike dot Com does wonder whether our attitudes towards pregnancy

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Speaker 1: and also female sexuality in tandem, whether they haven't changed

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Speaker 1: as much as we like to think that they have,

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Speaker 1: because clearly there's some fetishization going on. We're fetishizing pregnant

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Speaker 1: women in their bodies at a time when, counterintuitively, reproductive

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Speaker 1: rights are very much under attack. Well, actually, maybe it's

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Speaker 1: not so counterintuitive because we're worshiping these pregnant bodies and

426
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: taking away reproductive rights. So maybe that doesn't actually go together. Yeah,

427
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: I mean, you follow that up with what Jane Reynolds

428
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: describes as pregnancy being considered a state of transcendent femininity,

429
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: and it makes sense. The whole bump watch culture is

430
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 1: just part of this x spectation that women will and

431
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 1: should be mother. She even cites a two thousand nine

432
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: Pew study that found that thirty eight percent of survey

433
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: respondents think that the trend of fewer couples having children

434
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: is bad for society, and that's up from just two

435
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: years earlier. And yet pregnancy discrimination in the workplace is

436
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 1: still very much alive and well. For instance, a two

437
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: thousand seven study found retail store employees were more hostile

438
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: to pregnant job applicants. The second part of that experiment

439
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: found pregnant women were especially likely to encounter hostility when

440
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,719
Speaker 1: applying for what were deemed masculine jobs as opposed to

441
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 1: feminine jobs. In other words, pregnant ladies were fine as

442
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: long as we they fit the box we think that

443
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: they should be in. It's much harder to transgress those

444
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: kinds of gendered boundaries when you are so clearly biologically female.

445
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: Um and and this reminds me too of career advice

446
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: that some young women are given when they are fresh

447
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: out of college that if they are engaged, leave that

448
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: ring at home. If you go on a job interview,

449
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: because someone sees an engagement ring or a wedding band

450
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: and will immediately start thinking, when is this person going

451
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: to get pregnant and then have to leave work? I

452
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: will hire someone else. Yeah, well then, but then that

453
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:25,959
Speaker 1: gets you into a whole thing of like Okay, well

454
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: she doesn't have a ring. She's a dangerous single person,

455
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: so then that I won't go off on it. Or

456
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: she she's a single person so she can just work

457
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: over all the holidays. Right, Oh yeah, double binds again.

458
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: Invite us to your Mother's Day, brunches. We're fun, we're fresh,

459
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: got lots of ideas. Oh yeah, we're full of something,

460
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: including a speed bump called a baby bump. Right um, right,

461
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: But you know, we mentioned the Pregnancy Discrimination Act from

462
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: n and I teased that we would get back to it.

463
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: That did not end discrimination against pregnant people by any means. Apparently,

464
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: according to a study, pregnancy discrimination complaints filed with the

465
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: Equal Employment Opportunity Commission rose by thirty nine percent from

466
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: to two thousand three. Oh yeah, I'm not surprised at

467
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: all by that. But what about pregnant women themselves? How

468
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: is all of this baby bump culture influencing them and

469
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: their process of being pregnant and how they feel about it? Well, again,

470
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: Caroline and I cannot tell you firsthand because we have

471
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: never experienced that. But thankfully, uh Meredith Nash, who was

472
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: a sociologist, wrote the book Making Postmodern Mothers pregnant embodiment,

473
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: baby bumps, and body image. And in the process, she

474
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: talked to a bunch of pregnant women for her book

475
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: and found, based on interviews with them, that the baby

476
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: bump stage was relieving Yeah, because they were able to

477
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: transition finally from just feeling like, oh, I just look

478
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: chubby too. Oh no, but now I have a very

479
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: easy to see and uh decipher excuse for being bigger. Look,

480
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: I have a baby bump. I'm pregnant. I'm not just chubby. Yeah,

481
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: because in reverse, I mean, think about the the ultimate

482
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: faux pa of asking a woman if she is pregnant

483
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: and the answer is no, Yeah, there's yeah exactly, and

484
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: and Nash reports that the presence of the baby bump

485
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: quote was psychologically uncomfortable but also familiar to women who

486
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: were used to monitoring their bellies anyway, and that women

487
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: reported feeling anxious whenever there was the possibility that their

488
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: pregnant bodies might be mistaken for being fat instead of pregnant. Yeah.

489
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: I mean. Devora Meyers sort of along those same lines,

490
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: does point out, going back to our discussion on celebrity tabloids,

491
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: that in a lot of those magazines they talk about.

492
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: Part of the bump Watch is determining is she pregnant

493
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: or is she just fat? They call it like it

494
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: was it burrito or baby is one of the magazine's

495
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: UH photo spreads that they frequently do. But moving on,

496
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: moving on from just fat fears and concerns about body image,

497
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: we've also got to talk about ideas about femininity and sexuality.

498
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: When Nash discusses maternity clothes and quote managing the pregnant body,

499
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: she highlights that the pregnant and very visibly pregnant body

500
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: can be a spectacle, and she says that it's wedged

501
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: between two uncomfortable norms of femininity as simultaneously de sexualized

502
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: and an object of desire. And she says that women

503
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: who are visibly pregnant should be in any way de

504
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: sexualized is very strange, as surely pregnancy is is a

505
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: quite visible expression of sexuality. Well, that's been a really

506
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: fascinating thing to see as well, in terms of the

507
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: evolution of maternity clothes and the fact that we now

508
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: have maternity clothes that are not just like the Princess

509
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: Diana moo moves intents, which honestly, I love the idea

510
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: of lounging and a pregnancy MoMu um, and how a

511
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: lot of these styles are more are more fitted where

512
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: you see they're they're also the tabloid spreads of the

513
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: pregnant woman, the pregnant celebrity who's in a bikini on

514
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: the beach. At the Oscars, Benedict Cumberbatch's pregnant wife was

515
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: wearing a dress that had a high slit up the

516
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: side and it was called daring for a pregnant woman

517
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: to be showing that skin. Because to me, that that's

518
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: the definitely highlights this conflict we have about well can

519
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: a pregnant woman still be sexual? And especially by the

520
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: choice of clothes she wears. It does seem radical for

521
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: a pregnant woman to wear, say a skin tight or

522
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: leg revealing or cleavage revealing garment, because it goes back

523
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: to our discomfort with pregnancy and how people how people

524
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: might have gotten I don't know, how do you get pregnant? Oh,

525
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,959
Speaker 1: I don't want to think about it. Well. And also maternity,

526
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: the idea of like a mom is canna momby sexy?

527
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: Is that is that strange for us to even think about? Yeah,

528
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: we're trying to put you in a category. Why won't

529
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: you go in a single category. And that's another thing

530
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: that Nash points out, that pregnant women are encouraged to

531
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: maintain bodies that are thin, proudly displayed, and in control.

532
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: And that's a concept that we've talked about on the

533
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: podcast before in terms of overweight people being judged to

534
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: be out of control. And it seems kind of strange

535
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: to me that we would put pregnant women in that

536
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: category two of like, oh, she's out of control, and

537
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: it's like, well, no, but society says she has to

538
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: get pregnant, she should have a baby, she should become

539
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: a mother. But now we're saying that she's got to

540
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: be simultaneously like thin and well groomed, but also like

541
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: big and pregnant. Yeah. I mean. And I can tell

542
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: you both anecdotally and also empirically that pregnant women absolutely

543
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: feel a lot of appearance related pressure because it is

544
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 1: so much of a tight rope. And this was something

545
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: confirmed um by a study presented in two thousand three

546
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: at the Women's Studies International Forum, in a paper that

547
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: concluded that pregnant women adopt a quote pragmatic approach of

548
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: both selective resistance to a sexualization and selective compliance with

549
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: the pressure to be slim. Well, that sounds so tiring,

550
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: and being pregnant is already so tiring. Yeah, I mean,

551
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: I can't imagine. I can't imagine, but you know, I mean,

552
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 1: you see it. You see it everywhere. People like Drew

553
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 1: Barrymore and Kim Kardashian faced so much public shaming and

554
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: abuse for gaining weight. Oh my god, gaining weight during pregnancy.

555
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: Imagine that. This reminds me though, speaking of stuff mom

556
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 1: never told you. Something my mom did tell me was

557
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: when she was first pregnant with my oldest sibling, when

558
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: the doctor told her that she should gain some extra

559
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: weight because she was always very slim, slender, and she

560
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: was delighted by that news. She was like, my entire life,

561
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: I had to be thin, I had to stay thin,

562
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: and here was a doctor telling me, prescribing me to

563
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: gain weight, and she loved it. She was like, I

564
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: went a little overboard, to be honest, but it was

565
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: so fun. Well, I mean that is that. I think

566
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: that is so interesting, and that illustrates a critical point

567
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: in talking about women's bodies, that you no matter sort

568
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: of at what point you are whether you're pregnant or not,

569
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: that you do feel like you've got to still fit

570
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 1: into these these images somehow, but also that you might

571
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: need permission to kind of eat what you want or

572
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: let your body do what it's going to do naturally. Yeah,

573
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: I mean, and at this point, I think we need

574
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: to hear from some some humans who have been pregnant. Yeah,

575
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: I'm really curious to know what what it is like,

576
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: what that kind of body monitoring is like, and if

577
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: you do feel like celebrity tabloid culture has intensified it

578
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 1: at all, And also for people like Carolin Amy, who

579
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: have been more observers than participants in this whole thing,

580
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: What do you think? What do you think about this

581
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: whole bump watch culture that we live in. Moms Stuff

582
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot Com is our email address,

583
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: and you can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast

584
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: or messages on Facebook. And we've got a couple of

585
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,919
Speaker 1: messages to share with you when we come right back

586
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: from a quick break. Well, I've got to let her

587
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: here from Zoe about our episodes on science fiction and

588
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: social justice. She says, I've been on the internet since

589
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: i was around ten years old, and yes, I had

590
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: a live journal, and yes I have a Tumbler and Twitter. Now.

591
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 1: I've never been directly called a social justice warrior to

592
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: my face, but I wouldn't be surprised if I was,

593
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: as I have always been interested in various social justice issues.

594
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 1: I've also had friends that have been called derisive lye

595
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: social justice warriors, and had friends who have called people

596
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: that I've also had friends started out the ladder and

597
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: became the former. I used to think the term was

598
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: very specific to a type of hyper aggressive activist, ally

599
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: with misguided views, similar to the definition you gave. But

600
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: part of my problem with the term is I soon

601
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: discovered that not everybody defines it the same way. Some

602
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: people define it solely as people who only fight for

603
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: social justice in fandom, like a quote meat Space activist

604
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: friend of mine who works with serious legal issues, and

605
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: others use it toward anybody interested in social justice at all,

606
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: especially if they're younger than thirty, and still more seem

607
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: to use it as anybody who's doing social justice differently

608
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: than I am. It can be difficult to navigate the

609
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: online sphere. I think part of the problem is that everything,

610
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: especially stuff like Tumbler and Twitter, is public. If you

611
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: make a mistake with a few friends, you apologize no biggie.

612
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: But when you have a public platform, you can never

613
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: know who you might be hurting with your words, or

614
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: where they are or how bad their day was. As well,

615
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: It's sometimes hard to know when you're being too aggressive,

616
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: because some people will perceive any sort of correction or

617
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: common about this sort of thing is being too aggressive.

618
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 1: I feel this is especially true if you're a woman

619
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 1: or queer person like I am, or part of other

620
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: marginalized groups. Sometimes you're being too aggressive and need to chill.

621
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 1: Other times, though, people perceive being assertive as being hyper aggressive.

622
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: I think it's important to try to be polite when

623
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: sending messages, but also make sure you're not making that

624
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: mistake when you're getting one. Assertiveness versus aggressiveness sounds like

625
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 1: it could be an episode on your podcast. I firmly

626
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: believe stuff like death threats, harassment, and ignoring boundaries like

627
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: using sock puppets to get around someone's block is not okay,

628
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: and that's important to remember. On a lighter note, I

629
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: like your science fiction episode a lot. I've heard about

630
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 1: a lot of the fiction discussed in it, but I've

631
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: been meaning to read some of the books you mentioned,

632
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: and we'll try to do so. I'm a bit passionate

633
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: about comics in general, and there seems to be a

634
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: resurgence of comics of all genres, including sci fi. I'm

635
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 1: a huge fan of web comics and indie comics. One

636
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: of my favorite is oh Human Star, which explores the

637
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: nature of people and their relationships in a robotic future.

638
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 1: I'm also really excited about a couple of upcoming anthologies,

639
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: such as New World, which is being headed by Spike Trotman,

640
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: who I believe was mentioned in your episode about comics.

641
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: I'm also really excited for and backed Beyond, an anthology

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00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: of sci fi and fantasy with a queer theme. Love

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00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 1: the podcast, Thank you so much for it, and thank

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00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 1: you Zoe Well. I've got a letter here from Robin,

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00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: also about our science fiction episode, and Robin writes, I

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00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: wanted to mention how much science fiction changed my life.

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00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: My dad is the biggest science fiction fan I know.

648
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: He also has six daughters. Raising us on science fiction

649
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: has inadvertently made all of us feminists and shaped our

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00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: own lives and relationships for the better. We would spend

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00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,439
Speaker 1: hours watching Star Trek together, and when I was eight,

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00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: Jake Lloyd was my first crush. I remember him handing

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00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: me Ender's Game when I was just nine years old,

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00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: and ever since then have had such a passion for

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00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: this genre. It's helped me examine the world critically and

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00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 1: inevitably has led to some very interesting conversations throughout my

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00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: life on gender especially. I don't think my dad expected

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00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: any of this, but I'm happy, nonetheless that he did

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00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: bestow this onto us as children, as it has shaped

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00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: our lives so much. Ps. My favorite book is The

661
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 1: Left Hand of Darkness by earthlaky La Gwin, which you mentioned.

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00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 1: I also love Speaker for the Dead by Orson Scott Card,

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00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 1: even though he's a staunch Mormon who uses his profit

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00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: to fund anti gay marriage legislation. That's all things that

665
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: much for your podcast. I was very excited for this topic,

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00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: So thank you Robin, and also Robin's dad for being

667
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: a rad dad. We love red Dad's and if you

668
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: want to email Mom stuff at how stuff works dot

669
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 1: com is the address and for links to all of

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00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: our social media as well as all of our blogs, videos,

671
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: and podcast including this one. So you can also take

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00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: a look at that ninety one Vanity Fair newe to

673
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 1: Me more cover. Head on over to stuff Mom Never

674
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:23,240
Speaker 1: told You dot com for more on this and thousands

675
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: of other topics. Is it how stuff Works dot com