1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:27,476 Speaker 1: Bushkin. This is solvable. I'm Jacob Weisberg. Many many millions 2 00:00:27,476 --> 00:00:29,716 Speaker 1: of gallons of retardants are used every year, ran the 3 00:00:29,876 --> 00:00:32,996 Speaker 1: iconic red stuff you see being dropped from planes. In 4 00:00:33,036 --> 00:00:38,396 Speaker 1: recent weeks, the Pacific coast has faced devastating wildfires. Because 5 00:00:38,436 --> 00:00:42,596 Speaker 1: of climate change, uncontrolled fires have become increasingly frequent and 6 00:00:42,676 --> 00:00:46,956 Speaker 1: increasingly destructive around the world, from Australia to Brazil to 7 00:00:46,996 --> 00:00:50,876 Speaker 1: Oregon and California. But before they spread out of control, 8 00:00:51,396 --> 00:00:55,436 Speaker 1: these fires often start in predictable places. I mean, we 9 00:00:55,556 --> 00:00:59,716 Speaker 1: found that eighty percent plus of the fires in California 10 00:00:59,756 --> 00:01:02,756 Speaker 1: over the last ten years have started routinely in the 11 00:01:02,876 --> 00:01:07,276 Speaker 1: same sorts of hotspots. The familiar fire preventing strategies focused 12 00:01:07,276 --> 00:01:11,356 Speaker 1: on giving fires less fuel by clearing flammable materials from 13 00:01:11,396 --> 00:01:14,836 Speaker 1: around the home, keeping gutters and drains clear, and cutting 14 00:01:14,836 --> 00:01:17,956 Speaker 1: down dead and dying trees. But as the planet grows 15 00:01:17,956 --> 00:01:21,676 Speaker 1: hotter and fire seasons keep getting longer, we might be 16 00:01:21,756 --> 00:01:26,436 Speaker 1: ready for a higher tech approach, something like Jello. For 17 00:01:26,516 --> 00:01:30,396 Speaker 1: the lay person, it it looks and feels, I don't know, 18 00:01:30,836 --> 00:01:33,436 Speaker 1: it's not as stiff as jello. Eric Apple is a 19 00:01:33,476 --> 00:01:38,076 Speaker 1: professor of material science and engineering at Stanford University. He 20 00:01:38,156 --> 00:01:41,756 Speaker 1: and his team have designed new long lasting fire retardant 21 00:01:42,076 --> 00:01:46,236 Speaker 1: with a gel like texture. It's sprayed over known hotspots 22 00:01:46,716 --> 00:01:50,916 Speaker 1: before fires start. I believe that with the right technology 23 00:01:50,956 --> 00:01:55,196 Speaker 1: in hand, this problem is solvable. I asked Apple why 24 00:01:55,236 --> 00:01:58,756 Speaker 1: he's so passionate about this idea. He started by describing 25 00:01:58,796 --> 00:02:01,996 Speaker 1: the sky outside his window. Right now. If I look 26 00:02:02,036 --> 00:02:05,316 Speaker 1: out my window, I see a very brown sky. It 27 00:02:05,356 --> 00:02:08,196 Speaker 1: looks like it's twilight, but you know, it's ten o'clock 28 00:02:08,236 --> 00:02:10,836 Speaker 1: in the morning. It should be bright and sunny. I mean, 29 00:02:10,876 --> 00:02:14,276 Speaker 1: I grew up in California. I'm Californian for almost my 30 00:02:14,436 --> 00:02:18,636 Speaker 1: entire life, and you know, I have many graduate students 31 00:02:18,636 --> 00:02:20,436 Speaker 1: in my lab at Stanford that come here from all 32 00:02:20,436 --> 00:02:22,116 Speaker 1: over the place, and they just sort of assume that 33 00:02:22,156 --> 00:02:24,956 Speaker 1: it's normal. And I had to tell him no, I mean, 34 00:02:24,996 --> 00:02:28,116 Speaker 1: I don't remember this ever when I was growing up. 35 00:02:28,156 --> 00:02:30,756 Speaker 1: I mean, you'd hear about fires every once in a 36 00:02:30,836 --> 00:02:33,956 Speaker 1: while on the news, but it's certainly in the last 37 00:02:33,996 --> 00:02:37,516 Speaker 1: couple of years has become a completely regular thing. So 38 00:02:37,556 --> 00:02:42,476 Speaker 1: I can certainly understand your eagerness to help solve this 39 00:02:42,516 --> 00:02:45,516 Speaker 1: problem solvable. About how you're going to do it, what's 40 00:02:45,556 --> 00:02:50,356 Speaker 1: your solvable for dealing with these fires. Many, many millions 41 00:02:50,356 --> 00:02:52,556 Speaker 1: of gallons of retardants are used every year, right the 42 00:02:52,756 --> 00:02:55,076 Speaker 1: iconic red stuff you see me and dropped from planes, 43 00:02:55,676 --> 00:02:58,796 Speaker 1: and that's really only ever used reactively. So once a 44 00:02:58,796 --> 00:03:03,676 Speaker 1: fire has started, our main approach is trying to stop 45 00:03:03,716 --> 00:03:06,996 Speaker 1: them before they start. Now, one of the limitations that 46 00:03:07,036 --> 00:03:09,396 Speaker 1: we were trying to address is if you want to 47 00:03:09,476 --> 00:03:13,036 Speaker 1: go and pretreat areas where you know fires are going 48 00:03:13,076 --> 00:03:16,036 Speaker 1: to start. One of the primary limitations of the current 49 00:03:16,036 --> 00:03:18,356 Speaker 1: retardants is that they don't stay where you put them. 50 00:03:18,956 --> 00:03:21,756 Speaker 1: A high wind or heavy dew is enough to wash 51 00:03:21,796 --> 00:03:24,876 Speaker 1: the retardants off the vegetation, so they stop working. So 52 00:03:24,956 --> 00:03:29,236 Speaker 1: what we sought to do was to not create a 53 00:03:29,276 --> 00:03:32,836 Speaker 1: new retardant, let's say, because we're using the same active 54 00:03:32,836 --> 00:03:37,716 Speaker 1: fire retarding agent, but instead tweaking the performance additives so 55 00:03:37,756 --> 00:03:41,636 Speaker 1: that the retardant stays on the vegetation throughout the duration 56 00:03:41,676 --> 00:03:44,076 Speaker 1: of the fire season, So you can spray one time 57 00:03:44,396 --> 00:03:49,436 Speaker 1: in June, let's say, and have protection against fire starts 58 00:03:49,476 --> 00:03:52,756 Speaker 1: all the way through until the rainy season comes. So 59 00:03:52,876 --> 00:03:56,196 Speaker 1: can you describe this stuff? What's it like? If you 60 00:03:56,316 --> 00:04:00,156 Speaker 1: touch it? How does it feel? It's not quite a gel. 61 00:04:00,276 --> 00:04:02,476 Speaker 1: A lot of people think of jello when they think 62 00:04:02,516 --> 00:04:04,276 Speaker 1: of a gel, and it's not thick like that. It 63 00:04:04,316 --> 00:04:08,796 Speaker 1: looks kind of like cream. Really. So what we developed 64 00:04:08,796 --> 00:04:12,716 Speaker 1: an in my lab improves the adherents, so more of 65 00:04:12,716 --> 00:04:16,356 Speaker 1: what you spray actually sticks on the vegetation, and it 66 00:04:16,836 --> 00:04:20,196 Speaker 1: improves the durability. So it's really only once you get 67 00:04:20,236 --> 00:04:23,476 Speaker 1: into the rating season that the materials will wash away 68 00:04:24,116 --> 00:04:26,356 Speaker 1: and simply buy it a grade in the soil. Yeah, 69 00:04:26,676 --> 00:04:29,556 Speaker 1: the evidence in I mean, you know it works. Yeah, 70 00:04:29,556 --> 00:04:32,316 Speaker 1: so it we did pilot scale studies to test it ourselves, 71 00:04:32,356 --> 00:04:36,196 Speaker 1: and we tried to burn it. It was actually kind 72 00:04:36,236 --> 00:04:38,596 Speaker 1: of fun because, you know, we would do the experiments 73 00:04:38,916 --> 00:04:42,516 Speaker 1: and see that the fire would not actually ignite even 74 00:04:42,516 --> 00:04:45,036 Speaker 1: through extensive weathering. So we ranged a half an inch 75 00:04:45,116 --> 00:04:46,876 Speaker 1: on it and let it sit in the environment for 76 00:04:47,516 --> 00:04:51,676 Speaker 1: six weeks the treated grass. It wouldn't burn, and so 77 00:04:52,396 --> 00:04:54,276 Speaker 1: some of the folks that we were working with started 78 00:04:54,316 --> 00:04:57,316 Speaker 1: just drawing funny faces in the grass with a torch 79 00:04:57,436 --> 00:04:59,116 Speaker 1: because even if you took a torch to it, it it 80 00:04:59,196 --> 00:05:02,436 Speaker 1: wouldn't ignite. Wow. Then we were able to step it 81 00:05:02,516 --> 00:05:05,276 Speaker 1: up and actually do some full scale pilot studies and 82 00:05:05,956 --> 00:05:11,636 Speaker 1: treated a number of roadside segments in southern California. Many 83 00:05:11,676 --> 00:05:14,996 Speaker 1: of them are small, but every one of these ignitions 84 00:05:14,996 --> 00:05:17,756 Speaker 1: requires crews to go out and put them out, so 85 00:05:18,276 --> 00:05:21,716 Speaker 1: they use a lot of resources, They take up firefighters 86 00:05:21,756 --> 00:05:25,036 Speaker 1: time that they could be spending doing things like controlled burns, 87 00:05:25,636 --> 00:05:28,796 Speaker 1: and we reported that there were zero fires in the 88 00:05:28,836 --> 00:05:32,916 Speaker 1: treated areas. Eric. This is a very targeted intervention, right. 89 00:05:32,916 --> 00:05:35,116 Speaker 1: You don't need to treat the whole forest, You just 90 00:05:35,396 --> 00:05:38,676 Speaker 1: go where the fire is most likely to happen. Yeah, exactly. 91 00:05:39,676 --> 00:05:42,676 Speaker 1: I think that's an important misconception that I see a 92 00:05:42,716 --> 00:05:44,676 Speaker 1: lot of places that you know, we're not talking about 93 00:05:44,716 --> 00:05:47,716 Speaker 1: treating the entire forest like you would with a controlled burn. 94 00:05:48,156 --> 00:05:51,156 Speaker 1: We're talking about treating only right where the fires are 95 00:05:51,196 --> 00:05:53,916 Speaker 1: likely to start. And so if you envision a roadside 96 00:05:54,356 --> 00:05:56,676 Speaker 1: where if you have a car that overheats and it 97 00:05:56,716 --> 00:05:59,236 Speaker 1: pulls over into the grass right next to the roadway, 98 00:06:00,036 --> 00:06:02,556 Speaker 1: or somebody throws a cigarette butt out of their window, 99 00:06:02,876 --> 00:06:04,996 Speaker 1: it only lands right next to the roadway, and so 100 00:06:04,996 --> 00:06:07,876 Speaker 1: you only have to treat right there. And what's beautiful 101 00:06:07,916 --> 00:06:11,596 Speaker 1: about that is that, say, a twenty foot wide treatment 102 00:06:11,996 --> 00:06:15,756 Speaker 1: protects all of the forest beyond it. Yeah, and this 103 00:06:16,236 --> 00:06:19,996 Speaker 1: cream that you're spraying is it? Is it safe or 104 00:06:20,196 --> 00:06:24,236 Speaker 1: plants and trees and birds and animals and people. I mean, 105 00:06:24,436 --> 00:06:26,556 Speaker 1: there's something about the look of that red stuff coming 106 00:06:26,556 --> 00:06:29,196 Speaker 1: out of planes that I always think I would not 107 00:06:29,276 --> 00:06:32,316 Speaker 1: like to be underneath it. Yeah, So we when we 108 00:06:32,316 --> 00:06:35,636 Speaker 1: were developing this, we specifically designed it to be safe. 109 00:06:36,116 --> 00:06:39,676 Speaker 1: That was one of the primary concerns, because anything you're 110 00:06:39,676 --> 00:06:41,436 Speaker 1: putting out in the environment, you want to be one 111 00:06:42,156 --> 00:06:47,196 Speaker 1: certain that it's safe and effective. We designed it using cellulos, 112 00:06:47,236 --> 00:06:51,596 Speaker 1: so just plant matter and a thing called colloidal silica, 113 00:06:51,636 --> 00:06:53,676 Speaker 1: which you can think of as nanosand so it's just 114 00:06:53,996 --> 00:06:57,836 Speaker 1: primarily sand and cellulos. These are products that are already 115 00:06:57,956 --> 00:07:01,996 Speaker 1: used in food products and pharmaceutical products, and so they're 116 00:07:02,076 --> 00:07:05,316 Speaker 1: widely used, and we have a really good understanding of 117 00:07:05,356 --> 00:07:09,116 Speaker 1: their environmental safety and their safety to plants and animal 118 00:07:09,316 --> 00:07:12,836 Speaker 1: and fish. It sounds kind of obvious if the stuff 119 00:07:12,876 --> 00:07:15,756 Speaker 1: there were spraying blows away, why not come up with 120 00:07:15,796 --> 00:07:19,556 Speaker 1: some stuff that won't blow away? Is that? Why wasn't 121 00:07:19,596 --> 00:07:23,276 Speaker 1: something like this tried before you got onto it. I 122 00:07:23,276 --> 00:07:28,996 Speaker 1: think this is a great example of how innovation often 123 00:07:29,076 --> 00:07:33,396 Speaker 1: takes place right at the intersection of fields. The majority 124 00:07:33,396 --> 00:07:37,396 Speaker 1: of my lab actually focuses on drug delivery. You know, 125 00:07:37,396 --> 00:07:41,076 Speaker 1: we're in the process of developing an HIV drug, trying 126 00:07:41,076 --> 00:07:44,236 Speaker 1: to make it so that instead of needing to let's say, 127 00:07:44,316 --> 00:07:49,676 Speaker 1: have an infusion of anti HIV antibodies once every two months, 128 00:07:49,916 --> 00:07:54,596 Speaker 1: you can get instead of a single injection, and you 129 00:07:54,596 --> 00:07:58,196 Speaker 1: would get nine months or a year's worth of protection. 130 00:07:58,916 --> 00:08:01,236 Speaker 1: And what we were able to do here is apply 131 00:08:01,356 --> 00:08:03,556 Speaker 1: that same sort of thinking. Right, this is really a 132 00:08:03,556 --> 00:08:08,236 Speaker 1: delivery problem. The active FI retarding agent works great if 133 00:08:08,236 --> 00:08:11,036 Speaker 1: it where it needs to be when it needs to 134 00:08:11,076 --> 00:08:15,796 Speaker 1: be there. At risk of revealing my ignorance of chemistry, 135 00:08:15,836 --> 00:08:17,836 Speaker 1: can you go a little further into how it works? 136 00:08:17,876 --> 00:08:20,516 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess what I would understand that to mean. 137 00:08:20,716 --> 00:08:24,956 Speaker 1: Is that something that's water soluble that would get dissolved 138 00:08:24,996 --> 00:08:30,116 Speaker 1: if it rain is adhering to something that's not water soluble, 139 00:08:30,236 --> 00:08:32,396 Speaker 1: like a like a gel or an oil. I mean, 140 00:08:32,476 --> 00:08:35,596 Speaker 1: is that what's happening here? Yeah, So when people think 141 00:08:35,596 --> 00:08:38,156 Speaker 1: of gels, they think of sort of wet, squishy stuff, 142 00:08:38,636 --> 00:08:40,716 Speaker 1: you know. So it's the gel like nature that allows 143 00:08:40,716 --> 00:08:43,716 Speaker 1: it to adhere better. But then once it dries into 144 00:08:43,796 --> 00:08:45,596 Speaker 1: a film, you can think of it kind of like 145 00:08:46,076 --> 00:08:48,396 Speaker 1: like nail polish or something like that, right, or paint 146 00:08:48,396 --> 00:08:51,716 Speaker 1: where it dries into a film, but it's not it's 147 00:08:51,716 --> 00:08:54,316 Speaker 1: not thick like paint, and it doesn't suffocate the plants 148 00:08:54,356 --> 00:08:57,396 Speaker 1: or anything like that. It just it creates a more 149 00:08:57,956 --> 00:09:00,876 Speaker 1: robust film. And so this is where I could nerd 150 00:09:00,876 --> 00:09:03,516 Speaker 1: out all day on the polymer science of this. But 151 00:09:04,116 --> 00:09:06,756 Speaker 1: one of the beautiful things about polymers because we use 152 00:09:07,036 --> 00:09:11,636 Speaker 1: cellulosic polymers that are biover newable resources, and when they 153 00:09:11,796 --> 00:09:15,476 Speaker 1: dry they sort of get all stuck together and entangled. 154 00:09:15,676 --> 00:09:18,076 Speaker 1: The sort of go to thing when talking about what 155 00:09:18,236 --> 00:09:21,036 Speaker 1: are polymers like, it's kind of like a bull of spaghetti. 156 00:09:21,476 --> 00:09:24,236 Speaker 1: And so you can think of the longer the spaghetti, 157 00:09:24,516 --> 00:09:27,356 Speaker 1: the more tied up they are with their neighbors, and 158 00:09:27,436 --> 00:09:31,396 Speaker 1: the harder it is to grab one piece and pull 159 00:09:31,436 --> 00:09:34,076 Speaker 1: it apart from the rest. And so in our case, 160 00:09:34,156 --> 00:09:39,156 Speaker 1: we have these cellulose polymers and when they dry into 161 00:09:39,156 --> 00:09:41,676 Speaker 1: a film, they end up holding on really tightly to 162 00:09:41,756 --> 00:09:45,396 Speaker 1: the fiery tardant. So it just take it takes more water, 163 00:09:45,516 --> 00:09:51,276 Speaker 1: more rainfall to get those films to dissolve away. That's fascinating. 164 00:09:51,476 --> 00:09:54,996 Speaker 1: Your lab was focused on these time released delayed release 165 00:09:55,116 --> 00:09:58,756 Speaker 1: mechanisms for something completely different. How did you get the 166 00:09:58,876 --> 00:10:04,316 Speaker 1: idea to apply that to fire prevention? At family barbecue? 167 00:10:04,756 --> 00:10:09,516 Speaker 1: Family barbecue? So, my brother in law, Jesse a stuff. 168 00:10:09,876 --> 00:10:12,916 Speaker 1: He was the fire prevention forster for the state of 169 00:10:12,956 --> 00:10:16,756 Speaker 1: Hawaii for many years, and it came about when we 170 00:10:16,756 --> 00:10:20,036 Speaker 1: were talking. So he was the one that originally identified 171 00:10:20,636 --> 00:10:25,556 Speaker 1: that fires routinely start in the same areas. He was 172 00:10:25,596 --> 00:10:28,316 Speaker 1: the one that had the original idea to say, oh, well, 173 00:10:28,876 --> 00:10:31,836 Speaker 1: if we could only treat these areas beforehand, then we 174 00:10:31,876 --> 00:10:35,156 Speaker 1: could stop them before they even start. To me, when 175 00:10:35,196 --> 00:10:38,076 Speaker 1: we were talking about this, it was clear, oh, this 176 00:10:38,156 --> 00:10:41,476 Speaker 1: is a controlled delivery problem. It's a great story. So 177 00:10:41,716 --> 00:10:51,036 Speaker 1: firefighter meets material scientists, presumably over beers at a family barbecue. K. 178 00:10:51,116 --> 00:10:53,476 Speaker 1: I know you've had time to test some of this 179 00:10:53,516 --> 00:10:58,476 Speaker 1: work and coordinate a bit with cal fire. Was that 180 00:10:58,636 --> 00:11:01,716 Speaker 1: retard you're talking about in place this spring? If we've 181 00:11:01,756 --> 00:11:04,196 Speaker 1: seen the results with any of these awful fires that 182 00:11:04,196 --> 00:11:06,516 Speaker 1: are going on right now. So the materials are now 183 00:11:06,836 --> 00:11:11,196 Speaker 1: fully commercially available. They're being sold by the main company 184 00:11:11,236 --> 00:11:14,556 Speaker 1: that produces all of the fire retardants that you see 185 00:11:14,556 --> 00:11:17,596 Speaker 1: being dropped out of planes and whatnot. The product is 186 00:11:17,596 --> 00:11:20,836 Speaker 1: actually called Pause Check Fortify, and it is their sort 187 00:11:20,836 --> 00:11:25,676 Speaker 1: of premiere product for fire prevention. And so I believe 188 00:11:25,716 --> 00:11:29,796 Speaker 1: the company has been conducting projects in various places around 189 00:11:29,836 --> 00:11:33,996 Speaker 1: the state. For like we mentioned before, this targeted prevention 190 00:11:34,356 --> 00:11:38,556 Speaker 1: of wildfires in hotspots that are known to cause a 191 00:11:38,556 --> 00:11:41,196 Speaker 1: lot of fires. But were we too late for this 192 00:11:41,276 --> 00:11:44,076 Speaker 1: year or is this stuff being it's too late to 193 00:11:44,116 --> 00:11:48,276 Speaker 1: use it now? So unfortunately probably not. Over the last 194 00:11:48,316 --> 00:11:52,556 Speaker 1: couple of years, the fall has been really the most 195 00:11:52,596 --> 00:11:56,836 Speaker 1: severe part of the season. We do need to be thinking, 196 00:11:57,036 --> 00:11:59,356 Speaker 1: you know, at the individual level, at the community level, 197 00:12:00,156 --> 00:12:03,916 Speaker 1: of ways that we can be mitigating fires, especially in 198 00:12:03,956 --> 00:12:06,956 Speaker 1: these areas that are near where a lot of people live, 199 00:12:07,036 --> 00:12:09,596 Speaker 1: because they're the ones that have the greatest chance to 200 00:12:09,636 --> 00:12:13,436 Speaker 1: cause the most death and destruction. Yeah, I mean, obviously 201 00:12:13,436 --> 00:12:16,796 Speaker 1: these fire crews are you know, fully occupied, and then 202 00:12:16,836 --> 00:12:19,236 Speaker 1: some right now that they don't have much capacity to 203 00:12:19,316 --> 00:12:23,876 Speaker 1: work on preventive measures. Next year, the fires are gone. 204 00:12:23,876 --> 00:12:26,356 Speaker 1: At some point, fire season will be over and there 205 00:12:26,396 --> 00:12:28,556 Speaker 1: will be a break. Do you have big plans for 206 00:12:28,676 --> 00:12:32,396 Speaker 1: next year? Yes? Absolutely, I mean, and that's where you know, 207 00:12:32,796 --> 00:12:36,356 Speaker 1: firefighters recognize this. I mean they are very clear on 208 00:12:36,636 --> 00:12:38,796 Speaker 1: what needs to be done during the off season, but 209 00:12:39,156 --> 00:12:41,116 Speaker 1: a lot of other people sort of forget about fires 210 00:12:41,156 --> 00:12:44,236 Speaker 1: during the off season. And I think it's important to 211 00:12:44,236 --> 00:12:47,316 Speaker 1: realize that as we recognize the fire seasons are getting 212 00:12:47,356 --> 00:12:50,276 Speaker 1: more and more and more severe, more time and more 213 00:12:50,476 --> 00:12:54,676 Speaker 1: money needs to be put into mitigation efforts to rejuvenate 214 00:12:54,716 --> 00:12:58,316 Speaker 1: our healthy relationship with the forest to help set us 215 00:12:58,396 --> 00:13:02,316 Speaker 1: up for greater success going into the fire season. Yeah, 216 00:13:02,356 --> 00:13:06,316 Speaker 1: it sounds super exciting, Eric, but we're not seeing it 217 00:13:06,396 --> 00:13:10,316 Speaker 1: reduced fires currently. Right. Are we at a turning point 218 00:13:10,396 --> 00:13:14,796 Speaker 1: around deploying prophylaxis, as you say, as a strategy, I 219 00:13:14,836 --> 00:13:18,836 Speaker 1: think so absolutely. And really, what we've developed is a tool. 220 00:13:19,156 --> 00:13:22,556 Speaker 1: We don't want to stop all fires. Fires healthy for 221 00:13:22,636 --> 00:13:26,676 Speaker 1: the forest, and so what we really hope is that 222 00:13:26,796 --> 00:13:31,076 Speaker 1: this technology that we've developed can help prevent fires in 223 00:13:31,116 --> 00:13:34,836 Speaker 1: the places that pose the greatest danger to people and 224 00:13:34,956 --> 00:13:39,316 Speaker 1: property and at the same time support efforts to build 225 00:13:39,396 --> 00:13:42,836 Speaker 1: a healthier relationship with the forest. Right, the materials that 226 00:13:42,836 --> 00:13:48,556 Speaker 1: we've developed can be leveraged during control burn efforts, for example, 227 00:13:48,596 --> 00:13:52,356 Speaker 1: to make them faster and more efficient and more effective 228 00:13:52,356 --> 00:13:56,996 Speaker 1: and protect older mature trees, protect infrastructure, that may be 229 00:13:57,116 --> 00:13:59,676 Speaker 1: in the forest, and in some ways the materials that 230 00:13:59,716 --> 00:14:03,956 Speaker 1: we've can help those efforts. We'd like to end the 231 00:14:03,996 --> 00:14:08,996 Speaker 1: show by asking for suggestions for things listeners can do 232 00:14:09,756 --> 00:14:12,716 Speaker 1: to help with this problem. Obviously, we know from Smokey 233 00:14:12,716 --> 00:14:15,756 Speaker 1: Bear that only they can prevent forest fires, but you know, 234 00:14:15,876 --> 00:14:19,236 Speaker 1: beyond that, what can people in California and I guess 235 00:14:19,276 --> 00:14:25,196 Speaker 1: not in California do to help with this terrible tragedy 236 00:14:25,236 --> 00:14:30,396 Speaker 1: we see. One is be really cognizant of your surroundings. 237 00:14:30,996 --> 00:14:33,516 Speaker 1: You know, there are a lot of accidental fire starts 238 00:14:33,516 --> 00:14:37,716 Speaker 1: that could have been mitigated, Like just thinking about forest 239 00:14:37,716 --> 00:14:40,956 Speaker 1: fire is being something that that is a huge risk. 240 00:14:41,396 --> 00:14:45,396 Speaker 1: Another one is I would encourage people really to pursue 241 00:14:46,276 --> 00:14:51,076 Speaker 1: creating defensible spaces around their homes. So it's creating a 242 00:14:51,116 --> 00:14:55,236 Speaker 1: one hundred foot barrier, making sure that leaves and excess, 243 00:14:55,436 --> 00:14:58,836 Speaker 1: you know, potential fuels are removed from your roofs or 244 00:14:58,876 --> 00:15:01,756 Speaker 1: gutters or just from around the house in the first place. 245 00:15:02,396 --> 00:15:06,956 Speaker 1: And also, I mean every county, every I guess maybe 246 00:15:06,996 --> 00:15:10,276 Speaker 1: even not just at the county level, a fire safe 247 00:15:10,276 --> 00:15:13,956 Speaker 1: councils that are sort of mixtures of fire personnel as 248 00:15:13,956 --> 00:15:17,516 Speaker 1: well as local landowners but more engagement in those sorts 249 00:15:17,556 --> 00:15:20,276 Speaker 1: of things would be really helpful. There are a lot 250 00:15:20,276 --> 00:15:24,316 Speaker 1: of policies that really, I guess are not as helpful 251 00:15:24,356 --> 00:15:31,276 Speaker 1: for incentivizing people to be as fire safe as possible, 252 00:15:31,756 --> 00:15:36,476 Speaker 1: and so even talking to your local and state representatives 253 00:15:36,516 --> 00:15:41,476 Speaker 1: about investing more into these sort of fire prevention opportunities. 254 00:15:41,756 --> 00:15:44,956 Speaker 1: I don't think there's as much buy in as there 255 00:15:44,996 --> 00:15:47,716 Speaker 1: could be or should be. So many people forget about 256 00:15:47,756 --> 00:15:51,236 Speaker 1: wildfire season, you know, during the five or six months 257 00:15:51,396 --> 00:15:54,436 Speaker 1: in the off season, and we need to be more prepared. 258 00:15:59,476 --> 00:16:03,036 Speaker 1: Eric Apple is a professor of material science and engineering 259 00:16:03,076 --> 00:16:06,676 Speaker 1: at Stanford University. Remember to check out our show notes 260 00:16:06,716 --> 00:16:09,676 Speaker 1: for links to suggestions for ways that you can reduce 261 00:16:09,716 --> 00:16:15,196 Speaker 1: fire risks and learn more about wildfire prevention. Solvable is 262 00:16:15,196 --> 00:16:18,316 Speaker 1: brought to you by Pushkin Industries. Our show is produced 263 00:16:18,316 --> 00:16:23,596 Speaker 1: by Camille Baptista, Senior Producer, Jocelyn Frank. Katherine Girardou is 264 00:16:23,596 --> 00:16:27,276 Speaker 1: our managing producer, and our executive producer is Mia Loebell. 265 00:16:28,036 --> 00:16:32,516 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Heather Fain, Eric Sandler, Harley Mgliori, and Kadijahaled. 266 00:16:32,996 --> 00:16:34,196 Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Weisberg.