1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome to episode number seventeen of The Hunting Collective. 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: I've been O'Brien. I'm joined today by Cody Rich Tody 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: Rich of the Rich Outdoors podcast and all the other 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: media associated with his brand and all the other things 5 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: he does as an entrepreneur in the hunting world. Cody 6 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: is an interesting guy. He's a free thinker. He's somebody 7 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: that has a different approach on talking about hunting, thinking 8 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: about hunting, and he's as hardcore as they come. He 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: spends a ton of time in the back country, just 10 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: about as much time as he spends thinking about why 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: he does what he does and how to make it 12 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: better for all of us. So I had a great 13 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: conversation with Cody in Bozeman, Montana. I'd like to thank 14 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: him and his lovely fiance for having me over for dinner, 15 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: a good bit of whiskey and a great podcast. Who 16 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: went deep on a lot of conversations from the history 17 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: of hunting to how we got here to where we're 18 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: going and so well, Thank Cody one more time. I 19 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: hope you enjoy episode number seventeen. Cody, Who's podcast is this? 20 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: Have we discussed who Who's posting? It. Yeah, you know 21 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: what's funny? Um until a lot of podcasts with other people, 22 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: and that's always like a conversation. I mean, this is 23 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: both I guess, don't they do where you like you 24 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: can share, you can both post the same podcast. Yeah, 25 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: I don't like that. Really, we have to know. I 26 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: don't like I want to I'm selfish. I wanted okay, 27 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: you go first. Should we shoot for it like Rochambau 28 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: for it? Or it could be a rock paper scissors game. Yeah. 29 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: At the end, a lot of people vote, A lot 30 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: of people vote, and see, uh I did one with 31 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: go Wild. Oh yeah, you didn't want the other with Brad? Yeah, 32 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: Brad's good dude. Yeah we did. Uh we did one. 33 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: It was like three hours long. It was funny. I 34 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: was like, where did time go? I still got a 35 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,399 Speaker 1: post it on mine? I told him I would after 36 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: that just means you're good at what you do. Like 37 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: if you're good, I'm good at bullshitting bullshit. And if 38 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: if you found yourself in a position where you just 39 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 1: bullshit as a profession or semi professional bullshit, or you're 40 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: doing good, which is strange because I would not if 41 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: you would have looked back before I started podcast, no 42 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: one that knows me it would have been like, yeah, 43 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: I hope be a podcast host, or it was probably 44 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: before that was even things would be like a radio host, 45 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: like I was not a talkative. I'm not a talkative person. 46 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: I don't go out of my way to talk about 47 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: myself or about anything. Super quiet, superserved. I freaking hunt 48 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: by myself, so like and most I don't know. I 49 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: guess I'm an extroverted introvert. Yeah, and that's why your 50 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: thing doesn't come off like hi and welcome to the uh. 51 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: Probably for that reason. But yeah, I don't know if 52 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: I was that way. My mom used to say, I 53 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: know always that like late night. I when I was 54 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: a kid, it was like late night with Benny, Like 55 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: I'd come out and I had my act for dinner. 56 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: You know, I had my deal, my act polished, my 57 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: jokes lined up for dinner. So maybe that was like 58 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: a precursor to having a podcast. But I feel still 59 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: don't feel that way. It's not conversational when telling jokes 60 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: to the at the dinner table. But yeah, I used 61 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: to be a bit of a performer in my younger years. 62 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: When you're a kid, Like what was like the Dreamoa, 63 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna be I was gonna be a sports writer. 64 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: I was gonna be like, uh, I don't even know. 65 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: At the time, was the person I looked up to 66 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: the most, I don't know, guys like Ken Rosenthal and 67 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: people like that, you know, which now I look at 68 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: it like that is not a very glamorous you know. 69 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: I didn't want to be John Glenn. I would have 70 00:03:58,240 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: land on the moon, and I'm like, I'd like to 71 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: write about people hitting the ball. That would be great, 72 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: and and for sure got to that pretty quickly, got 73 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: to the to do that as a profession, and pretty 74 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: quickly realized it was terrible. And so hey, kids, if 75 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: you're out there and you have a dream tested out early, 76 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: if you can get it, If you get that thing 77 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: in early and realize maybe it sucks, that'll save you 78 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: a lot of time later on. I always tell people 79 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: look at someone who is there, like, look at someone 80 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: who's doing what you think you want to do, and 81 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: evaluate how happy they are, like not like, oh hey 82 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: this my recruiter told me he's this happy, Like truly, 83 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: how happy is that person? Well that's a great, great example, 84 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: because when I got I was like twenty one years 85 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: old and I got to be I was an intern 86 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: out of sports magazine called press Box in Baltimore, Maryland, 87 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: and we and they got rid of a lot of 88 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: their editorial staff and like one big swath and I 89 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: was an intern, and the main publisher came to me 90 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: and said, would you like to be beat writer for 91 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: the Baltimore Orioles and the Ravens during the time where 92 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: we're switching over our staff. And I was like, that 93 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: is like my dream job, Like, oh my gosh, I'm 94 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: twenty one. So I think the first time I realized 95 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: that exact thing, I was sitting in the press box 96 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: and I kind of looked to my left, to my right, 97 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: and there's just a bunch of like disheveled, old, just 98 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: miserable looking guys that can't clap anymore. If if somebody 99 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: has a home run, they can't have it, like like 100 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: it's it's the job of the sports journalist to be muted. 101 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: So you can't celebrate any good things. You can't be 102 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: You just have to sit there and write your article 103 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: and be gone. And then you know it would be 104 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: like an extra endings baseball game and the sports risers 105 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: be over there like, oh my god. Another couple of endings, 106 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: like bemoaning the fact that they had to sit in 107 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: the press box longer. And I'm looking around at that 108 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: and I'm like, this is a beautiful thing. To me. 109 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: Sports is like this very exciting. It creates energy in 110 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: a place, Like you get in a stadium full of 111 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: four people and you feel this like incredible energy. And 112 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: there's the dudes that are running about just white faced 113 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: and like never see the sun, and you know, and 114 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: I remember looking around and thinking, well, this isn't what 115 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be, you know. And then 116 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: you have like the TV personalities who are super dressed up, 117 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: but still the same misery, you know, still the same 118 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: Like they get all the things that the baseball players get. 119 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: On the negative side, they get all the travel, they get, 120 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: all the long nights they get, you know, all the 121 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: things that were out of baseball player. But if you 122 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: don't get any of the glory, you don't get any 123 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: of it. You know, you don't get the money, you 124 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 1: don't get the glory, you don't get the women. You 125 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: just get to travel, that's all. And so was there 126 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 1: a moment where you're like, wait a minute for sure, yeah, 127 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: there was a guy by then I want to say 128 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: the guy, well, he ain't gonna ever listen to this, 129 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: but there's a guy named Aubrey Huff's baseball player for 130 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: the Oils at the time, and he I had to 131 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: write a feature on him. And it's weird because in 132 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: the sports world, you're you're kind of like the ass 133 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: are like like cattle. You get into a room, the 134 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: locker room has their lockers, right, and these are people 135 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: that are literally at their jobs. They're like changing their 136 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: texting there, eating their showering that they're just doing their job. 137 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: They're living their life. And you're in this like cordoned 138 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: off area in the middle and you're pressed. You're there 139 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: to cover these guys and you're only allowed to approach 140 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: them at certain times, and you gotta kinda like sidle 141 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: up to them while they're it looks like they're not 142 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: so busy. He'd be like, hey, Aubrey, can we talk 143 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: for a minute, And he'd be like, well, I'm I'm 144 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: skyping with my kids. Back off your little shit, like 145 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: move away. And so it's this incredibly awkward scenario where 146 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: you have to have a good relationship with this person 147 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: to make it work. Well, I was twenty one years old. 148 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: Nobody want to talk to me, like nobody and Aubrey 149 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: Um bless Aubrey soul he Um didn't want to talk 150 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: to me. And I had to come to him like 151 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: the last day before my deadline. Be like, Aubrey, I've 152 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: interviewed your family, your coaches, manager, your teammates, I've interviewed 153 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: the janitor, I've interviewed the guy that sells peanuts out 154 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: in the outfield. But I have not been able to 155 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: get you to say anything about this story. And it 156 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: was a kind of a glowing review of his career 157 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: and he had it was having a good season that year, 158 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: and he basically just came out of the shower after 159 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: the game and he said, man, I'll have time for this. 160 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: I said, I just need like two sentences. He's coming 161 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: out of the shower and just a towel and he 162 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: dropped his towel and he said, let's go. Oh, like, 163 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: let's do the interview. And I'm twenty one years old. 164 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: So I just got my quarter out, turned it on 165 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 1: and did a you know, naked interview with and uh. 166 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: That was the time when I was an intern still 167 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: and so I didn't even really tell anybody at the 168 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: that that the paper. I just went back and wrote 169 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: my article and for my feature article and did my 170 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: thing and just was happy to still be there. But 171 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: at some point I realized, this is not this is 172 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: not the dream. In fact, if I keep doing us, 173 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: I will never appreciate sports again. I will hate them 174 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: with all kinds of fervor. And so I need to 175 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: just chill out and and figure something else. And then, 176 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: luckily for me, I was in a bar and a 177 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: friend of a friend was talking about his great job 178 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 1: work for a hunting magazine and he was leaving that job, 179 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: and and I was like, look into that, and I did, 180 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: and off I went. But at the time I didn't 181 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: realize you could be a hunting journalist in any way. 182 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: I just taught you hunting was just something you did. 183 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: So luckily that, luckily for me that happened. It was 184 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: early on, early enough in my career. I didn't chase 185 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: a dream for ten years and realized way later on. 186 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: So this is me hijacking your podcast. And I like 187 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: it that we we've established it's my podcast notorious for 188 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: this that when you when you look back and like 189 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: thinking about careers and this is like always his fascinating 190 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: fascinating me because I remember being a a very young person, 191 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: a kid, and having this like dead set dream on 192 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 1: what I want to do. And I remember there was 193 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: a teacher that walked in the room and said, I 194 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: don't remember what the stat was, but like eight percent 195 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: of people go to college and they never become what 196 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: they go to college for. And I was dead set, 197 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: like no, this is the thing, Like this is what 198 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do, Like you're so wrong, weird. It turned 199 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: out that I didn't become that. But going back, like, okay, 200 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: you go a sports writer? What does dream job these 201 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: days look like for me right now? Because if I'm 202 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: twenty and the reason I asked this questions because if 203 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: I'm one, I look at someone who is just a 204 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: little bit ahead of me, and I say, Okay, what's 205 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: their dream? And how do I pull from that more 206 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: than what I think my dream is? Yeah, what we 207 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: were talking about this on a recent podcast with Casey 208 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: Butler about you know, how do you get successful in 209 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: the thing, Like what I think it's more about how 210 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: you define success, you know, because a dream is something 211 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: that you conjured, you know, a reality is like what 212 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: you're talking about, like a tangible thing you can look 213 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: at and be like, I'd like to have that. By 214 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: its own definition, to dream is something that you've conjured 215 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: in your own mind. It's just your form of happiness. Um, 216 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: that's your form of I don't currently have happiness. I'd 217 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: like it, and this is what I think it looks like. 218 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: That's what a dream is really and the fun part 219 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: is chasing that very intangible, always changing dream as you 220 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: perceive the world in different ways, like you, you know, 221 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: you have different experiences you like me, I had an 222 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: experience that changed the dream I was chasing, but I 223 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: was still chasing this level of like I want to 224 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: be passionate about something and I want to inject those 225 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: passions into my mind of high my daily life. And 226 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: if I can do that, if those two things can 227 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: somehow be married in a way that makes sense, then 228 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: it's the dream. It's the same damn dream. It's just 229 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: shifted as I've experienced things. And luckily for me, once 230 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: I experienced the hunting community, like the hunting industry, I 231 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: knew my dream was to be is impactful in that industry? 232 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: Is that could possibly be? And then once I figured 233 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: that out. I like, man, it doesn't matter what I'm doing, 234 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: It really doesn't. I mean, it would be nice to 235 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: have money, it would be nice to you know, for 236 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: people to respect me, and all those types of things. 237 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: But like, at the end of the day, if I'm 238 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: in the community, I truly feel like I'm passionate about 239 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,719 Speaker 1: that thing, and I'm helping it and I'm making a 240 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: good living doing it, and all those things are in 241 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: this weird gumbo of you know, reality. Maybe that is 242 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: the dream. It's imperfect, it's not really the dream that 243 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: you might have seen in your head, but it's it's 244 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: still that's the dream. It's like, however you get there 245 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: doesn't matter because you're gonna every time something happens to you, 246 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: your perspective will change and your dream will change with 247 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: it has to. And I think that's so important for 248 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: I don't to say kids, because it's it's everyone. You 249 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: could be fifty years old and be like, you know, 250 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: screw my nine to five job. I want to do 251 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: what I love, and so like in that capacity, it's 252 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: it's understanding that this dream is ever changing, and like 253 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: what you're trying to accomplish, maybe tomorrow looks a little 254 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: bit different and being okay with that for sure, like Okay, 255 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: this is the direction, but not necessarily the exact thing. Yeah, 256 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: because if you're chasing one exact thing, you're gonna get 257 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: way off track focusing on that one thing, and you're 258 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: gonna miss a lot along the way that would have 259 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: benefited your life and your passion. Like if I would 260 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: have been completely closed to marketing, I was a journalism major, 261 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: I thought marking was the enemy. In fact, I still 262 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: think it is. I hate it. Um. If I would 263 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: have been completely closed off to taking a job as 264 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: a marketing guyt to cooler company because I thought it 265 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: was the enemy and my dream was to be this 266 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: like this j nalist above all journalists, that I would 267 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: have missed the opportunity that I had there, And in 268 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 1: fact I struggle with that early on that decision making process, 269 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 1: Like don't marketing is the enemy? Dude? What are you doing? 270 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: Like you want to be somebody who puts information out, 271 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: not doctors at up so to make you know, sell 272 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: plastic boxes, Like that's not what you do. But when 273 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: Ben O'Brien comes to a fork in the road such 274 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: as that marketing and journalism like those are those are 275 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: two big directions, right, Like that's a fork in the 276 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: road that pretty much is a t intersection. So I mean, 277 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: I guess I can't say that it's a winer section 278 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: to what you're marketing and what you're marketing for, Like 279 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: it's debatable, but like you come to a fork in 280 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: the road, how do you think about decisions? That's a 281 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: good question. Um yeah, well I'll think about that. We'll 282 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: make a decision on my why on the road. How 283 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about decisions and wise in the road? 284 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: Um Man, I just think I always go back to 285 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: like energies. I don't know in marketing. What I've learned 286 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: in being a marketer is that advertising his interruption and 287 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: marketing is about you're not to talk about this earlier 288 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: at dinner. Marketing is about like this collection of energy, 289 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: you know, like you're attaching yourself to the current energy, 290 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: like the most important, the most influential energy that's out there, 291 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: like and that speech, and that's ideas, and that's innovation. 292 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: That's a lot of things that energy gets wrapped up 293 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: into too, you know, consumer products or a personality or 294 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: you know, an influencer what however, you want to you 295 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: want to attach that thing. When I try to make 296 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: a decision like that, I look at the singular, like 297 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: the tangible decision, not the indangible, because if it was 298 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: me making the intangible decision between journalism and marketing, I 299 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: would always pick journalism. And that's what I was just 300 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: talking about. That would close me off from this other opportunity, 301 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: which at its face seems like not something I wouldn't 302 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: want to do. But then when I went experience Yettie, 303 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: experienced the energy there and understood what it was at 304 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: a base level, and like, this energy is more important 305 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: than the conceptualized version of what I think marketing is, 306 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: Like this is I would rather attach myself to what 307 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: this feeling. Then you know, not accept this reality because 308 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: because it's marketing, because it's labeled like that, um and 309 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: ended up being whole lot of journalism in my marketing gig, thankfully, 310 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: which like this is what I say. It's kind of 311 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: a why more than a t because essentially you get 312 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: to the right company with the right vibe, marketing can 313 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: be journalism and like and that's being open minded and 314 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: that's taking Probably a lot of that has to do 315 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: with your background and what you bring to the other thing. 316 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, and I mean I hate to sound really 317 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: you know, out there when I'm saying energies, I'm not 318 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: We're not gonna talk about chakras at all. After then, 319 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't mean it like that. I mean 320 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: it like a group of people are an idea or 321 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: something that you literally energize as you and I I 322 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: felt the same way about deciding to do a podcast, 323 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: because when I sat down, like when we did a 324 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: podcast before I had one, or when I had been 325 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: on others, like, there's this this legitimate energy that I 326 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 1: get from the conversation, Like it's always at some level 327 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: like a drug, like you get you have a super 328 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: like a passionate conversation. Nobody's interrupting you, hopefully, And that's 329 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: a rarity in this world. You have that conversation, you 330 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: come off like, man, that was awesome. And that's why 331 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: it sometimes when when the audio is bad or when 332 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: you know you lose the card on the way of 333 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: the truck or something, it feels like you lost something, 334 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: not because you can't because you could have the same 335 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: conversation again. What you can't replace is the energy that 336 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: you felt in that room at that time with that person. 337 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: And I don't like how many times in your daily 338 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: life you don't have an hour long conversation with the 339 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: Starbucks barista. But if you did, it might be cool 340 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: as ship, but you might really learn something and you 341 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: might come out of that like this is a cool coffee. 342 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: But I just think how many like conversations we do 343 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: that aren't recorded. Yeah, that's crazy and there yeah, and 344 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: then then like how you and I? The podcasting to 345 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: me has become this thing that like if I don't 346 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: do it once or twice a week, I get to 347 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: be feeling like I gotta do it again. Man, When 348 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 1: knees starts shaking, I'm like, let's let's let's let's get 349 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: in there again and get in that arena again where 350 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: I can exchange ideas. And so I I think i've 351 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: I've I've gone to that more now than ever, just 352 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: to try to find these things that feel energetic like this, 353 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 1: that have a certain vibration to them, and um, if 354 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: you feel it, you know it and that's the way 355 00:18:54,520 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: to go. You just got check And at that, well, 356 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: you're just I mean, you really are trying to gauge 357 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: at the people and the idea and the direction and 358 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: if you say if you say, like, man, you know 359 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: my dreams journalism, I'm not doing marketing, and then then 360 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: you're never gonna get to where you want to go, 361 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: you know all those wise in the roads, You're just 362 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: gonna go left. You're gonna be a NASCAR well, and 363 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: then the reality is is like, look how much you've 364 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: learned from your experiences and like stepping out and you 365 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: want to like talk about this goes back to say 366 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: you want to master your craft of whatever it may be. Like, 367 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: you want to master your craft. You can't be a 368 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: one track pony or a one track pony. You have 369 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: to be able to diversify. And for you to be 370 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:49,959 Speaker 1: a great journalist a k podcast, you have to understand 371 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: the marketing side. Yeah you do. That's a great point. 372 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 1: I mean you really do have to understand the motivation 373 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: of the commodity and the motivation of the consumer to 374 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: understand how you marry that all together. Because people expect 375 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: some consumerism in their content anymore. That's what it is. 376 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: It's like, who are you sponsored by? Buddy? You're hawking 377 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: this week? Like I'm not sure, let me check the list, 378 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: like and so that you know I always have. I've 379 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: had big time trouble with that too, um big time 380 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: trouble with like mixing, like really wanting content to be 381 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: honest and true and like, but understanding that there's not 382 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: a whole lot of people creating content not to make 383 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 1: money at some level. Dude, it's so hard because like 384 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: on a certain level, you have to for the content 385 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 1: to continue, it has to have funding, right, can't just 386 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: go on forever. And as soon as funding comes in 387 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: all this you know, it's not that the the transaction 388 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 1: is wrong, it's that as soon as money comes in, 389 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: there's outside influence and there's no way to stop that. 390 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 1: If even if even if every listener to this podcast 391 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: started paying me ten bucks a month, their influences now 392 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: a part of the game, and so you can't there's 393 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: nothing you can do, And so you just kind of 394 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: have to like the only way to create content in 395 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: this world and understand how you're gonna get to where 396 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: you want to go is like how am I going 397 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: to play the game? Is a setup because you're really 398 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: gonna have to have a lot of extra money laying 399 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: around if you want to just do a podcast for 400 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: the honesty of just exchanging ideas and getting that out 401 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: to people and not trying to get anything out of it, 402 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: and there's no expectation in the in the market to 403 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: do that. The expectation is like, you have a great podcast, 404 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: what's are you gonna make? You know how many sponsors 405 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: you're gonna get, how many ads you're gonna get. And 406 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: then I think it's it starts to play against itself, like, well, 407 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: he's got seventeen sponsors, he is good at podcasting. Should 408 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: like wait a minute, man, maybe that's the opposite. It's true. No, dude, 409 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,479 Speaker 1: that's true. That's such a dilemma. I don't know if 410 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: anybody cares about that, but well I said that I 411 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: was one of the last parts I was talking about 412 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: that You're just gonna have to listen to this. Maybe 413 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: you don't care about it, but like I'm kind of 414 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: a media geek, and um, I think these things are 415 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: interesting because it goes back to how we communicated about hunting, 416 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: like why we do it? And now I'm on this 417 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: thing all the time saying like I care about you know, 418 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 1: the hunters, how hunters are perceived, and I care about 419 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: this and that. But part of that is also I 420 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: need to make a living off how hunters are perceived. 421 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: So am I being completely honest and saying that I 422 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: don't know. No, it's dude, it's so true. And it 423 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: goes back. It's as far, not as far as hunting 424 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: goes back, but to the extent of the current world, 425 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: Like it has a poll on it, whether you think 426 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: it does it or not, you know what I mean, 427 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 1: it's all you know, they're my buddy all Remarcus, who 428 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: runs on it. Let's say that all the time. It's 429 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: like it's a game. She's just names drops. I did 430 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: my buddy too. I like that was pretty damn it 431 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: got that. Let's seconds in the cup and she name drop. 432 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: You know. Last time I was on a yacht, we 433 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: were eating caviar and we're talking about now. He always 434 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: says he talks about the game, and it's like this 435 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: is a game, man, Like the society is a game 436 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 1: that we choose to play, and you choose how you 437 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 1: want to play it, and then like what parts of 438 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: it you want to play. And I feel like that 439 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 1: about the hunting industries, like we're all, you know, communicating 440 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: in some way about hunting and then at the same 441 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: time virtue signaling about why we're doing it and why 442 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: how we should be doing it. And I feel conflicted 443 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: about that a lot, but I see the need for 444 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: us to talk about why we hunt and how we're 445 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: perceived and those things like that. So I think a 446 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: lot of people that don't live within the industry if 447 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: you hear this a lot. Yeah, we talked about it 448 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: a lot, like what's the perception, what's what's the image 449 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: that we're portraying. But at the same time, in the world, 450 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: in the world still has no freaking clue and just 451 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: thinks we kill stuff for fun, that's right, So we 452 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: kind of do have to beat the dead horse. Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, no, 453 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: And then you know, to say, I feel conflicted about that, 454 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: as I say, like there's some small part of me 455 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 1: that understands the hypocrisy of it, but it's still more 456 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: important than my own hypocrisy, than my problems with that, 457 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: Like it's more important than that. And and because it 458 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: goes back so long, because the idea is such, is 459 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: so core to who we are, is important and we 460 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: need to keep talking about it. But again, just like 461 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: that why in the road thing, like we need to 462 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: make sure as a community that we don't get too 463 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: set on one destination. We need to make sure we 464 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: don't miss any really good things that we're not thinking 465 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: about right now, because we're all headed towards one way. 466 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: One of the conversations you and had this is probably 467 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, but it had to do 468 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: with we all have we all have our own way 469 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: of saying it, and we all have our own way 470 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: of portraying it. What we do, what we are, who 471 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: we are, all these things, and like the way you 472 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 1: tell it is different the way I tell it, the 473 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,239 Speaker 1: way the cal tells it, the way Steve tells it. 474 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: Like everyone has their own way, which is good because 475 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: there's people there's different ways of interpreting it. So different 476 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: people always interpret things different ways. And so someone maybe 477 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: latch onto what you say, what I say, or like 478 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: and and because they're like my damn, Cody Rachels from Oregon, 479 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: from Washington State, we're the same person. If I see 480 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: now you're just giving what people from Washington lady an accent. 481 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: I don't know why they talk like that. I was 482 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: thinking maybe they would be like you pers. I don't 483 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: know why they I don't know why my like default, 484 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: my default accent is all is like that Dann ju 485 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: is the best NASCAR driver ever or well, it's like that, 486 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: but I've talked about that in the best too. It's 487 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: like we have chosen or it has chosen us. What 488 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: however we came into hunting. We have chosen this complex 489 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: and complicated thing that almost every single person or every 490 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: single region or every single you know, place where hunting happens, 491 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: it's like it's a different thing. Like we you and 492 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: I grew up hunting, but we didn't grow up doing 493 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 1: the same things. Yeah, because you grew up in Maryland, 494 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: like literally a country partly everybody were you were talking 495 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 1: like this, hey man, Uh but in Maryland, I don't 496 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: know that, but everywhere. Uh. But that's you know, I 497 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: think that's it. I think we we have stummeorn across 498 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: this thing that is very much malleable. It's very much 499 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: like the idea of hunting is pursuit. Pursuer has always 500 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: been the same, that's always will remain the same. The 501 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: deer and the human will remain the deer and the human, 502 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: but the deer will change, certainly over time on a 503 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: lot based on conditioning, and we will change and perceive 504 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: the deer based on how where we live and how 505 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: many of them there are we are we've already done 506 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: that a history of hunting. We've already had not a 507 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: lot of deer and change our perception of what deer are. 508 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: And then now we got a ship ton of them, 509 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: and now we're starting we're changing our perception of what 510 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: deer are now, which is funny because I'll go back 511 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: and I'll just to play Devil's advocate and I agree 512 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,719 Speaker 1: with you, but for podcast sake, we'll play Devil's advocate. 513 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: The pot hunting has changed in certain capacities from the 514 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: start to the beginning, and I don't know, no one 515 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: really knows what the start was, Like that's a pretty 516 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: undefined Well there's one like a couple of million years. Yeah, 517 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: we could go to twelve thousand years or I don't 518 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 1: know whatever it is uh to killing mammoths with spear 519 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: years and whatever we did we need Steve one officially, 520 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: Like there's a butcher site and like one four million years. Okay, 521 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: let's just let's just rump all that into substance subsistence hunting, 522 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 1: like we're hunting for me, right, and then we got 523 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: so good at it and or popular or whatever it 524 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: was that we're sport hunting, so like it changes, but 525 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: now that whole you went from subsistance to sport, to 526 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: market to almost extinction reset. Now we went early nineteen 527 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: or twentieth century assistance again to sport. Horse will never 528 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,719 Speaker 1: go market again. But like history kind of repeats itself 529 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: through the nineteen hunds because you have a little bit 530 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: of like people only did it for me, and then 531 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: people did it for sport, and then in the nineteen hundreds, 532 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: after like almost a distinction, people did it for me. 533 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: Because you go back to like twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, 534 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: was people's hunted for meat. That was about it. Well, 535 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: they started to have technology they didn't have before and 536 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: they could like, oh, refrigeration ship, we could bring them back, 537 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: but had technology that a rifle amazing. Absolutely No, I 538 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: think I don't know if you agree with this or not, 539 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: in like in that spectrum, I think the modern idea 540 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: of conservation is the one thing that changed because we 541 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: now had the wherewithal to consider what we couldn't consider before, 542 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: because before the deer was the thing that we had 543 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: to kill to eat, and then a deer, a deer 544 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: was just a part of the landscape that that we 545 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: took just like we plowed a field or we were 546 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: just manifestesting the entire damn thing. We're just like, we'll 547 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: just plow the whole fucking thing. Well, the deer there 548 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: will kill him and we'll take parts of him. And 549 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: it was fine. But then when conservation we came and 550 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: thinking it was like this this massive course carre action 551 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: and those ideas where now we can look at the 552 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: animal with a truly a different value system for the 553 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: first time. And so I think that's the seed change 554 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: and what you're talking about, because it does repeat itself 555 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: and it is sicklical. But the seed change was was 556 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: in the conservation and turn of century and in in the 557 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: thirties we started to think about, like, we have to 558 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: have a value system for this animal or set of animals, 559 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: population of animals to make sure that they stay around, 560 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: because before we were just killing them to eat, or 561 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: we were just killing them because they were there and 562 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: we could profit off of it. But now there's this 563 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: thing that we this ideal that has to go forward 564 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: throughout the history of time to keep them there. So 565 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: I got a question for you, and I have a 566 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna ask you what your theory? Okay, I 567 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: like where we're just batting this ball back, and so 568 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: subsistence sport market hunters just label, isn't it? Three times? 569 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: Who do you think the idea for conservation the good one? 570 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: Subsistence sports market hunters because we originally were subsistence hunters 571 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: did it for me. Sport hunters came along from Europe, 572 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: and then market hunters with this whole growth of America. 573 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: So then we had market hunting who had the idea 574 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: and who, Like it's not even like who specifically, but 575 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: just like, well, if stem is the question I think 576 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: you're looking at, I think it. I think it was 577 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: kind of It's kind of embedded in each one of 578 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: those things, like the idea of So take subsistence hunters, 579 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: for example, if you kill them all, there's none left, right, 580 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: so you they were practicing conservation, but we're neighbors were 581 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: never able to define it and set it. I mean, 582 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: like this is the value system because I'm sure I've 583 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: never been a subsistence hunters, not alive in the eighteen hunters, 584 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: but I'm fairly sure that somebody along the way we're like, look, 585 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: let's only kill a few of these fuckers so there's 586 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: more around. And that was that is an idea, like 587 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: a feast this week is great, but if we could 588 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: eat next week that because you're just thinking, like there 589 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: was one kman was like that's just hit him all 590 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: over the head. And then like another game was like, 591 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: hey man, listen, if you hit him all over the head, 592 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: we're not gonna have any left for tomorrow. So like 593 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: that idea is isn't that conservation in and up? And 594 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: the same with market counters, like if we can't profit 595 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: all these things, that we kill every single one of 596 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: them in the same in the modern spore hunts the 597 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: same way we can't have fun collecting the trophies if 598 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: there's no trophies left. And so I think the idea 599 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: was always there and in the way that you always 600 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: had to have animals to have the thing that you wanted, 601 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: whether it was life or fun or can please just 602 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: don't even label it. Just that's your role now. And 603 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: like this is me shooting from the head, like I know, academic, 604 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: don't catch it, just throw it out there. So the 605 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: one thing we'll go back to podcasting and money. When 606 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: money is involved, things change and I think one of 607 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: the problems that we had with driving populations to near 608 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: extinction was not trophy hunters a k. Sport hunters, was 609 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: actually market hunters, because the theory that someone is gonna 610 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: get paid for this, whether I do it or not, 611 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: gets justified. And you see the same thing throughout culture today. 612 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: You see it all over like you see like, oh, 613 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: well someone's gonna do this, I might as well get 614 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: my chunk of the pie. And I think that's truly 615 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: what drove populations to extaction. It wasn't sport or trophy hunting. 616 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,239 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. People came from Russia. It's not like they 617 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: killed two thousand buffalo. The market hunters were like, man, 618 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: someone's getting paid to take this to Fort Sesson. Such 619 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: well also also to like in at at the turn 620 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: of the century, there was a growing urban populations that 621 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 1: needed fed um and and you read a lot of 622 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: books about buffalo hunters and how they he thought about 623 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: that and also unchecked populations of large unglits running the 624 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,760 Speaker 1: hell all over the place. Oh yeah, they're yeah, destroying habitat. 625 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: I was. I was in Yellowstone a couple of days ago, 626 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: and I was thinking, well, no, wonder they wanted to 627 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: kill some of these things. If you had a thousand 628 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,839 Speaker 1: buffalo in one valley, everything would be mush the ship, 629 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: it would just be like oatmeal, like there would be 630 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: nothing left. It would be your first having in yellow Stone. Yeah, 631 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: when you saw your first bullflore like, oh my god, 632 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: a buffalo. But I also know, like the buffalo, like 633 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: I know the story. Oh no, buffalo, the first buffalo. 634 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,879 Speaker 1: I saw this. This is a great you know, we'll 635 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: get back to defining the history of humanity in a minute, 636 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 1: but uh, at first buffalo I saw, which I felt 637 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: like it was symbolic of the buffalo and Yellowstone is 638 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: um his buffalo was You could see this buffalo's ribs 639 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: like he was. It looked like an old male and 640 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: it looked like just like the oldest male out of 641 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,760 Speaker 1: the herd. He was just like stumbling around in the stage, 642 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: just like trying to figure out what the fund to 643 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: do by himself. And I was glassing him from the 644 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: hard road there and he just his ribs were shown 645 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: and he was and he was he was looking for 646 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 1: and I was like, I just remember thinking, that's about right, 647 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 1: that's about right. Like animals in this situation, even though 648 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: it's even though it's essentially a wild buffalo. Like he's 649 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 1: like I felt, I felt very much like that animal 650 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: is sick from humanity. Like that animal has seen too 651 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: many cars, He's been exposed to too many soccer moms 652 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: taking his Like he's sick from that exposure. He has 653 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: a Facebook account and he's like he's out school out, 654 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: like he's just he's like he's ad too much exposure. 655 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: He's just can't eat anymore. He's he's done with it all. 656 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: He's the Kardashian Like we saw like we saw this 657 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 1: bull elk and it was like right next to like 658 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: right downtown and this bull. I know, everyone goes to 659 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,399 Speaker 1: Yellowstone and then this is like the only elk they've 660 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: ever seen, and they think it's magical. And I've seen 661 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: a lot of bulls, and it was just like the 662 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: most depressing thing ever. It was like, this is not life, 663 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: this is not real. Yeah, you can't. He's like I 664 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 1: had my family with me, so I was seeing it 665 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: through their eyes and and and that was okay, but 666 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: I made point to describe like this is this is 667 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,720 Speaker 1: not you know, it's not normal, and it's way and 668 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: my wife asked me at some point we were driving 669 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 1: in a car on the Yellowstone Lake and there was 670 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 1: elk better right by the road, and she goes, have 671 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: you ever been that close to one before? I was 672 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: like a shot one with a bow. How far do 673 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: you think? How far away do you think? I was? Like, 674 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: I just and I just remember her like and I 675 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: know the concept of hunting is not foreign to her, 676 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: and she knows what I do. But it's just this 677 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: interaction with the animals, the dawling of that interaction is 678 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: so depressing, so depressing to somebody who's who's had a 679 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: very like sharpened you know, interaction that's natural. Like you 680 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: standing behind a tree and a bull up that's Jason 681 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: cow runs by you. He's not like feeding by you 682 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 1: right by a road. I'm pretty sure he might kill 683 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: you if if he knows like something's going he doesn't 684 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: know you were there. He's never seen any humans around there, 685 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: or very few. And he's so contradictory to like the 686 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: people who see those things, like they go to Yellowstone like, 687 00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: oh my God saved the elk. I'm like, you don't 688 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: even stand this is nine. This is a robot elk. Yeah, 689 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 1: you don't understand, Like you're not aware of elkness, Like 690 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: you're not aware of what it elk does behind closed 691 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 1: doors when it's not attached to the hard road, Like 692 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: you don't understand the being of an elk, like what 693 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: it is, what it really is, and if you have 694 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: to spend a lot of time I don't really Mamber 695 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: even don't know that, but there has been a lot 696 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: of time outside a round elk to understand what an 697 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: elk truly is. What it you know, it's a giant 698 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 1: forest horse. It's crazy, this animal. It's like it's like 699 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: the difference between going on a date with a hot 700 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: chick and renting a blow up doll. Yeah. I don't 701 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: know if that's a safe assumption, but you still touch it. 702 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: It's still there real that. I didn't know where you're 703 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: going At first, I thought, ship, this is too early 704 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: in the podcast. Have you're going this deep of analogy? Um, 705 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: But no, I think it's like it's you can still 706 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: touch it. It's still there. It looks real. It is real, 707 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 1: but it's not the real thing. But I like, I 708 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: did appreciate ellis one for the this like the endless splendor, 709 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,839 Speaker 1: like the endless all. Another canyon, another beautiful canyon. Well, 710 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 1: there's the sunset. That's great. No, it is, it is. 711 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: I do won't diminish all this time in that, but 712 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,720 Speaker 1: I do think the animals and that's why people get gored, 713 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: and that's why there's interaction their signs everywhere. Don't pet 714 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:24,800 Speaker 1: the mountain lions like they're there, because that human animal 715 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: interaction is is. So it's just to me, it's like 716 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: it's this invalid thing that we've we've created as a 717 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 1: way to say, oh, I've experienced a false reality. And 718 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,439 Speaker 1: it goes back to like what I was talking about, 719 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,360 Speaker 1: like of the population things, Oh, we drive around in 720 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,320 Speaker 1: trucks and bud lights and shoot stuff from the window. 721 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: I value those in those natural interactional animals and natural 722 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 1: as they can be in the situation so we create. 723 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: I value like just seeing and elk feeding acrol like 724 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: chasing a cow and feeding across the meadow and bedding 725 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: in the shade and staying up and like I value 726 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: those those insights as much as anything because it's important. 727 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: But um, I was telling, you know, even telling my 728 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,239 Speaker 1: dad when we were there that it just felt, you know, 729 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: it just felt dull and and it felt like people, 730 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,839 Speaker 1: Um maybe just didn't understand what they were what they 731 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: were doing. So how do we, like, how do we 732 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: show or how do we explain or how do we 733 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: put things on the same level again, because I go 734 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: back to but I was the other thing. I'll say, 735 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: it's like there's somebody they were saying, like there's two 736 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: or three deaths a year in Yellowstone. Everybody gets goreed 737 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,720 Speaker 1: by a buffalo or run over by a elk or something. 738 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,359 Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe that's nature's way of being, Like I'll 739 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 1: let you play at this. I'll let you have your 740 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: little playground that's fake, but I'm gonna take two of you. Okay, 741 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 1: I'm gonna let a million of you in play like 742 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: you're in nature, but I'm taking at least two or 743 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 1: three of you out Like that's I'm gonna exact that pole. 744 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: You can fake it, and I'll let you fake it. 745 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 1: I'll even send the buffalo right to the road. But 746 00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: two of you are going down. That's the press. You 747 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 1: get up, that's the tax. But I don't know that 748 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: they're like I just think um. By the very first 749 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: podcast I ever did, Ronelle and I talked about this 750 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: and he said it's hopeless and I said, well, maybe 751 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 1: there's ed that's a jaded men. There's got to be 752 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,399 Speaker 1: a way. I think they're me too. And I said 753 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: to him, like, there's gotta be a way, and he 754 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: was like, good luck with it. I hope. Let me 755 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 1: know how what you find out, because there is such 756 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,319 Speaker 1: an incredible chasm between the reality of someone who goes 757 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: outside and and does that not for a living, but 758 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,799 Speaker 1: as part of their livelihood and part of their life. 759 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 1: It's part of their identity. You're wrapped up in in mountains. 760 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,280 Speaker 1: You feel a different way when you see him mountain 761 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: like you. You feel absolutely different than the person who's 762 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,280 Speaker 1: never hunted and see's about. They're like, wow, that's beautiful. 763 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: It's like a painting. And when I see a mountain, 764 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,759 Speaker 1: I'm I'm it's like this three dimensional thing that I 765 00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: can go up that which I go up that rid 766 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 1: right there. Look at that flat right there, I bet 767 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,359 Speaker 1: el bet right there, and they go across that. It's 768 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: like this three dimensional thing. It's like and other people 769 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: are looking at like a painting, like they can't get 770 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,400 Speaker 1: in there, they can't touch it. I'm like, I've to 771 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,239 Speaker 1: I've touched it. I know what's in there, and so 772 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 1: I feel like that's one hell of a chasm, and 773 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,839 Speaker 1: not everybody's wanting what was gonna want to go run 774 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: off in the maunt with me? And you you know, 775 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,799 Speaker 1: not everybody's gonna want to do that, desire to do that, 776 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 1: And I don't want anybody out there that doesn't desire 777 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:31,600 Speaker 1: to be there anyway. And so I'm not to this point. 778 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,720 Speaker 1: I'm not sure how you take somebody who doesn't desire 779 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,320 Speaker 1: to be there and put them there in the way 780 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: that you and I appreciate. And I don't think they 781 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,960 Speaker 1: could ever take me to New York City and show 782 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,400 Speaker 1: me some of the value of New York City in 783 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,319 Speaker 1: a way, because when I look in New York City, 784 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,319 Speaker 1: I look at this like is an incredible aunt hill 785 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: that I don't like that I don't understand. I don't 786 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 1: really want to be part of. I don't really I 787 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: don't like it. To me, it's like a painting. It's 788 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: just like this thing that I see. I'm not often 789 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: inside of it. I don't get the energy there. But 790 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 1: if somebody lives in New York City, they're like, dude, 791 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,080 Speaker 1: have you ever been out in Brooklyn on the streets 792 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: after this? And like you feel this energy and it's 793 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: like this beehive of people and ideas and like, oh 794 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 1: my god, it's great. I dude, that is annoying and loud, 795 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,359 Speaker 1: and I'm much ra would be it smells a lot 796 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,919 Speaker 1: like anxiety. Yeah, that smells like that, Like I can't 797 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: see the horizon, dude, I don't want to be in there, 798 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 1: and these people like I can see the horizon. Funk. 799 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 1: That's that's you know. And so there's just there's such 800 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,280 Speaker 1: a difference there and just the way you think about things. Okay, 801 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,160 Speaker 1: left field coming out of left field here. Do you 802 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,319 Speaker 1: think I R A R will have any impact on that? 803 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,480 Speaker 1: Do you think we have the ability to show people? 804 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,640 Speaker 1: I mean, technology is getting crazy, man, Like it's gonna 805 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 1: be to the point where you can experience on a 806 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,960 Speaker 1: certain level. The interpretation is the interesting part. But you 807 00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,799 Speaker 1: could experience everything I've ever experienced, Yes, in a blake 808 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,319 Speaker 1: of an eye. The interpretation is the difference because you 809 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: can put me in New York and your interpretation of 810 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: New York well not yours, but someone who enjoys New 811 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 1: York is going to have a different interpretation of that 812 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,879 Speaker 1: than me. I'm gonna have anxiety and like get me out. 813 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,839 Speaker 1: One time I stood in line for like an hour 814 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: at Dunkin Donuts to go with bagel, and I had 815 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 1: the most By the time I was eating that bagel, 816 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:26,640 Speaker 1: it was like a little piece of bread and anxiety. 817 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,839 Speaker 1: I was like the worst. Just get dude. I think 818 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,440 Speaker 1: this is terrible. But yeah, man, I don't know. I 819 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 1: think um. I think what hunting has going for it 820 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:42,279 Speaker 1: particularly is that people in urban areas, people that have 821 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:51,040 Speaker 1: virtual reality, people that are experiencing this you know, unbelievable energy, 822 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,680 Speaker 1: and even with VR, experience anything they want, you know, 823 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 1: life is a touch of a button. Like they can 824 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: they can create their own realities. I think you'll never 825 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: be able to escape the ultimate reality of going out 826 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 1: and experiencing things that are that that can't be manufactured, 827 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 1: that that are unpredictable, that are you know, beautiful in 828 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,920 Speaker 1: their violent nature, that you know that that is beautiful 829 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,080 Speaker 1: for his dangerous freaking them, and the things that that 830 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,799 Speaker 1: might make it inherently something you don't want to do. 831 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 1: I think hunting has that going for it. I think 832 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,279 Speaker 1: as the more urban people get, the more they're going 833 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,520 Speaker 1: to have some an a desire to go and see 834 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,840 Speaker 1: what that is, and the more virtual reality they have, 835 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,399 Speaker 1: the more they're gonna want the reality. I think they're 836 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: We've seen it with cell phones. I mean, we've seen 837 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,960 Speaker 1: it with all kinds of technology, and it's already happening 838 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,239 Speaker 1: with with cell phones. They haven't you know, smartphones have 839 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,359 Speaker 1: been around for that long and there's already screen time 840 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,759 Speaker 1: apps where people are trying to figure out how these 841 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,319 Speaker 1: things are negatively affecting their lives. I think hunting has 842 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,399 Speaker 1: that going for it. Escapism is it will help hunting 843 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,319 Speaker 1: in the future. I think I've seen it already. No, 844 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,359 Speaker 1: I think you're right, like the same way, like Instagram 845 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,319 Speaker 1: has created this I don't know, like false reality of 846 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,640 Speaker 1: what we do and don't do. But at the same time, 847 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 1: it's also put people to go do things they want 848 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,120 Speaker 1: to spend their weekends, and maybe maybe for the wrong reasons, 849 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,000 Speaker 1: maybe they're trying to do it for the Instagram post, 850 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,080 Speaker 1: but at the same time, it's putting people out there, 851 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,799 Speaker 1: and I think the inverse of that is that it 852 00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,359 Speaker 1: creates people who want to go out and do things 853 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,760 Speaker 1: because it just kind of puts you in that place 854 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,000 Speaker 1: and a place you wouldn't have gone before, and so 855 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 1: you know, whether it's you know, virtual reality or augmented reality, 856 00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:39,160 Speaker 1: that that interests you in doing something cool and exciting. 857 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:40,560 Speaker 1: You're like, oh, man, I want to check this out. 858 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,279 Speaker 1: What is this all about? Do it for real? Now? 859 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,719 Speaker 1: I think that we have that going for us in 860 00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,799 Speaker 1: the future, and we really do. And I I've seen 861 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,279 Speaker 1: it and people already. I've taken out people that have 862 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,920 Speaker 1: never left the city and I've taken them out and 863 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:59,919 Speaker 1: just seeing a landscape, we're just shooting a rifle. Would 864 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,839 Speaker 1: just going on a weekend hunt killing a havelina like 865 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:07,040 Speaker 1: that could be a life changing experience. I think the 866 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:08,719 Speaker 1: the ultimate problem is how do you how do you 867 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,439 Speaker 1: get that person to repeat that experience because you need 868 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,400 Speaker 1: a guide, You need somebody to show you, give you 869 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 1: access to places and show you what to do. So 870 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,000 Speaker 1: I think that's, you know, the ultimate hunter retention issue 871 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:22,520 Speaker 1: is that. But I think as far as like the 872 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,279 Speaker 1: acceptability of hunting and what you know, going outside and 873 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,439 Speaker 1: what that will look like, I think there's a there's 874 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,239 Speaker 1: a bright light there because that's always going to drive 875 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,000 Speaker 1: people to find what it is there. And then there's 876 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,040 Speaker 1: enough people just out there going like, man, I don't 877 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,279 Speaker 1: give a ship if you like killing animals or not. Like, 878 00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,440 Speaker 1: if it makes you squeams to think about shooting an animal, 879 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 1: I'm telling you that it enriched my life, and you'd 880 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,280 Speaker 1: be a fool not to not to give it a shot. 881 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:47,520 Speaker 1: You'd be a fool not to give it. And you 882 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,520 Speaker 1: may do do it once, not ever room killing animal 883 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,960 Speaker 1: and just decide that's not for you. I think you're 884 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,120 Speaker 1: foolish not to at least try to escape there once 885 00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 1: and see if that change your perspective in such a 886 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 1: way that you'd want to need to do it. And 887 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,520 Speaker 1: there'll be plenty of people that want to. Ye. It 888 00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: goes back to like it goes to, it's not about 889 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,719 Speaker 1: trying to get everyone in the world or in the 890 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,399 Speaker 1: in our country to pick up hunting and like start 891 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,400 Speaker 1: hunting and doing crazy things, climbing mountains and all this 892 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:25,560 Speaker 1: crazy bullshit. But it's about the population accepting that it's okay, Yeah, 893 00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,239 Speaker 1: that's it. Is it beneficial? Like the only question that 894 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:33,279 Speaker 1: needs answers. Is it beneficial to society? That's it? And if, 895 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,320 Speaker 1: like I said, our population says, yeah, sure, it's beneficial 896 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:38,840 Speaker 1: to all of us that somebody goes out there and 897 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 1: kills that animal, that go cool, all right, let's keep 898 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 1: doing it. And as soon as it as soon as 899 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 1: that switches over becomes the other way, you almost I 900 00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,160 Speaker 1: feel like you'll never get it back. Whatever goes that way, 901 00:48:54,320 --> 00:49:01,440 Speaker 1: she going, even escapism like that might help. But once 902 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:06,919 Speaker 1: society has like let go of of of what hunting is, man, 903 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:08,839 Speaker 1: I don't know. I would like to think you'd get 904 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,000 Speaker 1: it back, but it's gonna do it would be tough. Really, 905 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 1: I don't think I think if you get back. So hey, listen, everybody, 906 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,319 Speaker 1: let's hang on to this. Let's let's crawl this thing. 907 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:22,520 Speaker 1: Let's like keep it around. Yeah, because it's it's it's worrisome. 908 00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:28,960 Speaker 1: But I truly think, like, if we continue to hammer 909 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,719 Speaker 1: away at the problem of like the chasm between the 910 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,239 Speaker 1: non hunter and the hunter and the way they think, 911 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,640 Speaker 1: who continue to try to, like, you know, put a 912 00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,600 Speaker 1: thread in between the two of them, eventually you'll have 913 00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:43,680 Speaker 1: a rope and eventual you'll have something to pull on. 914 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,680 Speaker 1: But right now, there's not It's really nothing. That was 915 00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,920 Speaker 1: a strong analogy? Was that good? That was really good? 916 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,719 Speaker 1: All right? Put that in the highlights. I don't do 917 00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,319 Speaker 1: highlights while starting. You should start with highlights because I 918 00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:58,040 Speaker 1: was like, that's that's good, no oppretending the hashtag that 919 00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:04,800 Speaker 1: we don't have a hashtag hashtag threads to ches um. 920 00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:06,560 Speaker 1: But I truly do believe, like I feel like right 921 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,840 Speaker 1: now there's no thread. Maybe the meat is a thread, 922 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,399 Speaker 1: but it's weak as ship because it doesn't really stand 923 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,400 Speaker 1: up with a long argument. Because, like anybody who's a realist, 924 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:18,839 Speaker 1: I don't want to compare it to religion, but it's 925 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,279 Speaker 1: like there's a lot of people that have problems with 926 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,560 Speaker 1: certain pieces of things, like the actual like oh wait, 927 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,319 Speaker 1: that doesn't really make sense. So when you come to 928 00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:32,359 Speaker 1: the meat thing, people are like, wait, why so why 929 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,920 Speaker 1: do you go to Nepal to get meat? Wouldn't it 930 00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,440 Speaker 1: be closer to go to Like yeah, it's Texas. So 931 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,359 Speaker 1: that's the corner. Like you can't, that's what I mean. 932 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,000 Speaker 1: You can't just have the one thing. And now I'm 933 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,120 Speaker 1: sure you're like me, Like I meet people and you 934 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:48,640 Speaker 1: tell them you're a hunter, and they look at you 935 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:52,040 Speaker 1: like you're fucking crazy, and I'm like, dude, it's awesome, 936 00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,680 Speaker 1: my life's way better for having done this, And they 937 00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,399 Speaker 1: look at you like you are insane to have put 938 00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,279 Speaker 1: that fought in your head. And then you and I 939 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,160 Speaker 1: meet people that are I never want to leave the 940 00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,799 Speaker 1: city and I look at them like you're in a 941 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:09,640 Speaker 1: crazy you're crazy, and those those are the that is 942 00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,120 Speaker 1: the idea that scares me a little bit, because yeah, 943 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,319 Speaker 1: there's people like just have to mention, like what do 944 00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,840 Speaker 1: you do for a living? I'm in the hunting industry. 945 00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,120 Speaker 1: Oh my god, you say that it's dangerous. I never 946 00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,160 Speaker 1: say that. Now, I say outdoor industry. They push me. 947 00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,959 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm in the climb mountains like they what 948 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:30,879 Speaker 1: what do you do when you go up there? I'm like, well, 949 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes I'll bring a bow. Yeah, what do 950 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:39,480 Speaker 1: you do with that? Before I claim sum Sometimes I'll 951 00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,359 Speaker 1: bring my bow and maybe an animal shows up there? 952 00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,759 Speaker 1: Like okay, tell me more and I'm all right, I'm 953 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:48,600 Speaker 1: comfortable now, didn't Yeah. I find there to be like this. 954 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:53,160 Speaker 1: It's um and then it's see it in every other thing. 955 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,200 Speaker 1: Guns is another one. Some people they're like, do you 956 00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:58,640 Speaker 1: own a R fifteen? I'm like, yeah, have two or 957 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:02,040 Speaker 1: three of them. They're like you are crazy, Like why 958 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,759 Speaker 1: am I crazy? What are you talking about? This whole 959 00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,640 Speaker 1: world is like so enamored with what other people do. 960 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:15,040 Speaker 1: Just it makes it takes all kinds for the world 961 00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:19,200 Speaker 1: to go around. I truly believe that, like if everyone 962 00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,879 Speaker 1: was like me, it'd be a real boring world. I mean, 963 00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,560 Speaker 1: we'd all be really cool. I'd start like a mustache 964 00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,200 Speaker 1: comb company that there's a lot that many mustaches. Well, 965 00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,759 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be creepy, so I wouldn't. I could go 966 00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:36,759 Speaker 1: next to schools and things. But no, people don't know 967 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,880 Speaker 1: is because they people only see Cody on like Instagram 968 00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,200 Speaker 1: and things his mustaches. C g I it's not even real. 969 00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,520 Speaker 1: It's screen. He did a green screen, so just for 970 00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,040 Speaker 1: the Internet. He wears the screen mustache around. It's sucked up. 971 00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,520 Speaker 1: That's all Instagram. Well, yeah, you go back to the 972 00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:57,799 Speaker 1: original topic of what we're talking about. Originally we're talking 973 00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:02,120 Speaker 1: about the history of hunting and like conservation started. But 974 00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,160 Speaker 1: I think, you know, conservation is one thing that I 975 00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:10,040 Speaker 1: think is an idea that everybody gets. It's like a 976 00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,239 Speaker 1: it's a shared value system. The unfortunate thing about conservation 977 00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:19,520 Speaker 1: it is it is not hunting. And unless it's really 978 00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:23,799 Speaker 1: hard to explain to those people, like if conservation like 979 00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:25,759 Speaker 1: like the you know, some groups would would lead you 980 00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:28,719 Speaker 1: to believe that they're one and the same, then it 981 00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:32,080 Speaker 1: would be way easier. But conservation is an idea about 982 00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,680 Speaker 1: like value systems of the animal and how you know, 983 00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,080 Speaker 1: we think about that animal and what our what our 984 00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:42,160 Speaker 1: role is and keeping it around. Hunting is not that 985 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:47,759 Speaker 1: at all, Like we have very smartly connected to through necessity, 986 00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,360 Speaker 1: but really through you know, visionary people that were like, 987 00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:55,399 Speaker 1: we gotta connect this idea with hunting in the modern sense, 988 00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:59,040 Speaker 1: because sport hunting is you know, it's not conservation. It 989 00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,400 Speaker 1: isn't And we got to connect those two ideas. And 990 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,239 Speaker 1: so now here we are in the modern world. This 991 00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,879 Speaker 1: is why we go back. And it's easy to say, well, 992 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,160 Speaker 1: I do it for the meat or I do it 993 00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:13,239 Speaker 1: for you know, this is I'm a conservationist. Yeah, and 994 00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:15,520 Speaker 1: there's lots of holes in that theory, but at the 995 00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:19,960 Speaker 1: same time, it doesn't explain it. It doesn't have the 996 00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:23,120 Speaker 1: full effects, so to speak. Yeah, And I don't think 997 00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:27,360 Speaker 1: anti hunter struggle with their ideologies like you and I 998 00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,480 Speaker 1: are struggling right now, with which it is interesting, like 999 00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:34,319 Speaker 1: we're too passionate hunters who spent a ton of time, 1000 00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:38,240 Speaker 1: who are very confident in our beliefs. Can I explain 1001 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,880 Speaker 1: why I know it's a multi faceted question. Can an 1002 00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,680 Speaker 1: anti hunter explain why he's anti hunting? Which I had 1003 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,240 Speaker 1: to spend money started podcast to work through this problem. 1004 00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:51,440 Speaker 1: It's like Therapy two are in thirty some episodes figuring 1005 00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,080 Speaker 1: out that's right, that's right now. And I think anti 1006 00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,920 Speaker 1: hunters are very like resolute in their animals are sentient beings. 1007 00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:01,239 Speaker 1: Don't kill them their sacred, you know, at some level. 1008 00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:05,719 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's varying degrees of that. Now. The people 1009 00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,960 Speaker 1: that truly believe that, like we truly believe in hunting, 1010 00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,640 Speaker 1: I don't think you're sitting around like, you know what. 1011 00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 1: Maybe some animals, maybe like frogs, we could kill them, 1012 00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,399 Speaker 1: Mosquito maybe they Maybe I don't I've never really sat 1013 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,360 Speaker 1: in a room with an Anton or other conversation or 1014 00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:26,479 Speaker 1: heard two of them having We should have, and I'd 1015 00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,960 Speaker 1: love to. I try to get a guy um uh 1016 00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,680 Speaker 1: named Jeffrey flocking on if you're listening to this, Jeffrey, 1017 00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,919 Speaker 1: which is definitely not Yeah, just have you just happen 1018 00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:44,239 Speaker 1: to be listening, Hey, jeff Hey, jeff um he's in 1019 00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:48,040 Speaker 1: the I think it's the International Animal Welfare or something 1020 00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:50,279 Speaker 1: like that. Let you say I really know a lot 1021 00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:54,359 Speaker 1: about Jeffrey, but he um, I try to have him 1022 00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,440 Speaker 1: when he's he's a staunch anti and he has a 1023 00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,120 Speaker 1: lot of good ideas, like he has you know, mostly 1024 00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,480 Speaker 1: about Africa or feeling and those things. But I would 1025 00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,480 Speaker 1: I wanted really to talk to him about his ideas 1026 00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,000 Speaker 1: around you know, our value system because he he pokes 1027 00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:11,600 Speaker 1: a lot of holes in and the hunting's like you know, armor, 1028 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:17,080 Speaker 1: like the conservation thing and those ethics, and and he 1029 00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:20,200 Speaker 1: doesn't is what I feel like is a good job 1030 00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:21,920 Speaker 1: of sussing out some of the things that need to 1031 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:26,160 Speaker 1: be talked about from from a completely different chasm. And 1032 00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,719 Speaker 1: he does it pretty you know, he does it in 1033 00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:32,680 Speaker 1: a smart way. But even then I think him and 1034 00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,000 Speaker 1: I would just you know, we probably never get anywhere. 1035 00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:39,719 Speaker 1: We probably wouldn't. It was because I imagine, I don't 1036 00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,200 Speaker 1: imagine that he questions his stuff the way I questioned 1037 00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:47,319 Speaker 1: my stuff. Obviously he's a vegan, I hope, so yeah, 1038 00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,520 Speaker 1: because if not, it's a little bit tough. But um, 1039 00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,799 Speaker 1: excuse me, I'm trinking taking a drink of whiskey. That's 1040 00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,640 Speaker 1: the best on my bike, right out of whiskey. It's 1041 00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,040 Speaker 1: gonna be a long podcast. I know, I'm just sipping. 1042 00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:05,120 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, So I think I wonder, you know, 1043 00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,479 Speaker 1: because that anti hunter thing is so such an emotional deal. 1044 00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,879 Speaker 1: That's such a you know, when you're emotional not something 1045 00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,799 Speaker 1: you pretty damn said on what that thing is, then 1046 00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:18,520 Speaker 1: you're not the best way to go into any argument. 1047 00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,240 Speaker 1: And I would like, I would love to go about 1048 00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:25,200 Speaker 1: this with an anti hunter, say Jeffrey, for example, would 1049 00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,360 Speaker 1: be to go into the argument and it's not arguments, 1050 00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:31,160 Speaker 1: just just got discussion, and say what would make you 1051 00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:35,800 Speaker 1: think the opposite? Yeah, because if the answer is nothing, 1052 00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:37,520 Speaker 1: then I might as well argue with the chair next 1053 00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:41,960 Speaker 1: to me, you know what I mean. And I feel 1054 00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,720 Speaker 1: like that's where anti hunter's come from. So if someone 1055 00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,480 Speaker 1: are to come to me and say, hey, what would 1056 00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,400 Speaker 1: make you think the opposite? What would make you think 1057 00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:58,320 Speaker 1: that hunting was bad for me personally? It would calm 1058 00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,000 Speaker 1: down to like and obviously that timeline on this, because 1059 00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,760 Speaker 1: if you said, hey, listen, you have to stop hunting 1060 00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:10,120 Speaker 1: for ELK to survive. Absolutely, I mean, if you said, hey, 1061 00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:13,280 Speaker 1: you have to stop hunting for ten years, man, really like, 1062 00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to help you come up with a 1063 00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:18,720 Speaker 1: better solution. Let's figure this out. Let's try to figure 1064 00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:22,920 Speaker 1: that out of five. But if you're really run this 1065 00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:26,600 Speaker 1: through like every algorithm you have, then I would do it. 1066 00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:33,680 Speaker 1: So I can't say I'm incapable of discussion, right, Like 1067 00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,120 Speaker 1: you could come discuss this with me, like if they're 1068 00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,080 Speaker 1: a way, like what is a what is the problem 1069 00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,440 Speaker 1: and what is what is your proposed solution? And if 1070 00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,800 Speaker 1: your problem is that there's not enough elk, well, let's 1071 00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,919 Speaker 1: arguable right now we have plenty of elk. But if 1072 00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,880 Speaker 1: your solution is not hunting, okay, let's let's work through that. 1073 00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:56,640 Speaker 1: And like that's what I'm just curious, like what would 1074 00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:01,160 Speaker 1: an anti hunter solution be? And or what is the problem? Love? Yeah, 1075 00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,120 Speaker 1: I mean what would if that you said, Hey, what's 1076 00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:05,040 Speaker 1: you know? What would get you to go hunting and 1077 00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:08,400 Speaker 1: kill that animal and find out to be beneficial for 1078 00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:12,160 Speaker 1: not only yourself but society and that bad animal in 1079 00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:16,320 Speaker 1: the natural world? You know, I always wondered, like I 1080 00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,520 Speaker 1: would start with the value system. It's like, look, man, 1081 00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:22,000 Speaker 1: you love this animal like you love it like this 1082 00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:25,520 Speaker 1: is your like you you believe that that animal is 1083 00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,920 Speaker 1: as is important at some level as your life, Like 1084 00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,400 Speaker 1: it's and then you feel responsible for standing up for 1085 00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,040 Speaker 1: that life because you feel like it's equal to yours, 1086 00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,600 Speaker 1: Like that thing has rights, you have rights. You know, 1087 00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:39,760 Speaker 1: you're a good person for standing up for what you 1088 00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,680 Speaker 1: believe in in that way, like being an animal rights 1089 00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:46,240 Speaker 1: person doesn't mean you're a bad person. Now, people that 1090 00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,200 Speaker 1: manifest their animal rights activism and like death threats and 1091 00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:52,520 Speaker 1: ship we can talk about them later. But but guys 1092 00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,080 Speaker 1: that are just truly believe that this animal has the 1093 00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:59,440 Speaker 1: right to live and that that they cannot be the 1094 00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:02,520 Speaker 1: arbiter when it lives or dies because it has those 1095 01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,640 Speaker 1: rights and they wouldn't want those rights taken. You know, 1096 01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,280 Speaker 1: we call that murder and ore and that's why they're 1097 01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:12,440 Speaker 1: always like hunting is murder because they're equating that, you know, 1098 01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:16,360 Speaker 1: the choosing to take life as opposed to like the 1099 01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,720 Speaker 1: necessity of it. So I would just say, like we 1100 01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:23,120 Speaker 1: both like, let's strip away that and be like I 1101 01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,840 Speaker 1: care about that and I love that animal. I love 1102 01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:29,720 Speaker 1: it like I want them all to like live great 1103 01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,520 Speaker 1: lives and be they and they have rights in my eyes, 1104 01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:37,240 Speaker 1: And you think the same, Ship, like you think the 1105 01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:41,280 Speaker 1: same thing. I think. Let's okay, now, let's bring back. 1106 01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,200 Speaker 1: Let's bring back hunting and not hunting anti hunting into 1107 01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:47,880 Speaker 1: the conversation. Now, I were both starting from the same 1108 01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:56,080 Speaker 1: starting point, but we're walking opposite directions, like you're walking, yeah, 1109 01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:58,400 Speaker 1: I'm walking this way, and we're getting further apart all 1110 01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,960 Speaker 1: the time. Like, well, we started in the same place. 1111 01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:03,840 Speaker 1: All we have to do is turn around and walk 1112 01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:08,040 Speaker 1: towards each other. But we're what we're so now set 1113 01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,720 Speaker 1: in our direction to that we have to travel that 1114 01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,120 Speaker 1: we can't turn around, face each other and have a conversation. 1115 01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:15,760 Speaker 1: And that's a problem. And I would start there be 1116 01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,560 Speaker 1: like if if we can start with that value system 1117 01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,240 Speaker 1: and start having that conversation. I love the animal, You 1118 01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,920 Speaker 1: love the animal. I don't wish ill on it. You 1119 01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,000 Speaker 1: don't wish ill on it. I want them to be 1120 01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:29,720 Speaker 1: around forever. You want to be around forever. What the 1121 01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:32,240 Speaker 1: hell are we doing? Man? Yeah, we need to have 1122 01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:36,960 Speaker 1: we live in in the North American model of wildlife 1123 01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:40,760 Speaker 1: conservation is literally the most unique we can talk about Africa. 1124 01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:43,320 Speaker 1: And because they don't have that same value starting point 1125 01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:47,840 Speaker 1: now I do, and as Jeffrey, because the locals don't. 1126 01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:51,720 Speaker 1: They don't. Yeah, so that but but luckily here in America. 1127 01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,880 Speaker 1: We have that shared value system with everyone nine hunters, Like, 1128 01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:56,520 Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot of people like funking man, 1129 01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,720 Speaker 1: I wish it all the deer would just go away. 1130 01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:05,320 Speaker 1: They're so annoying. They're probably yeah, they're like guys that 1131 01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:08,560 Speaker 1: running botanical gardens, but yeah, So I think that there's 1132 01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:10,200 Speaker 1: very few people that I would just out and now 1133 01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:11,680 Speaker 1: and say, like I wish they would all go away, 1134 01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:14,680 Speaker 1: which means we all want them to be here. Here 1135 01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:16,480 Speaker 1: we are, We're on the same page. We're on the 1136 01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:20,720 Speaker 1: same page. Um, we're just unlucky enough to have like 1137 01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:24,040 Speaker 1: one person on one side wanted to kill it and 1138 01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,000 Speaker 1: eat its flesh and the other person wanted to pet 1139 01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:30,400 Speaker 1: it and send it to a park, Like if you 1140 01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:35,400 Speaker 1: had a wild ass. Guess how this turns out years 1141 01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:41,520 Speaker 1: from now. Hunting loses really hard, this scary time hard. 1142 01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:43,120 Speaker 1: I think we're just in the middle of itl we 1143 01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:46,000 Speaker 1: don't even know what we kind of know. We always 1144 01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:48,040 Speaker 1: everybody like even me, I'm always trying out to like 1145 01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:50,680 Speaker 1: a living point five millions down for fourteen four five 1146 01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,680 Speaker 1: million license holders. Like, we're in the middle of it, 1147 01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:55,520 Speaker 1: and I don't know that we really know what it's 1148 01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:59,680 Speaker 1: going to be in twenty years because we're like it's 1149 01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:04,960 Speaker 1: it's going to lose, it's going to I truly believe that. 1150 01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what lou. I don't 1151 01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,280 Speaker 1: want to say like it's gonna end. They will be outlawed, 1152 01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:15,160 Speaker 1: but it they're definitely gonna it's going to be. I 1153 01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:17,960 Speaker 1: think that grizzly bearth thing and in British Columbia is 1154 01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:22,120 Speaker 1: is that the future? To me? Like, how could you 1155 01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:25,440 Speaker 1: not think that? Go back to the nineteen seventies and 1156 01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:31,040 Speaker 1: tell me you know what urbanization has done from nov Yeah, 1157 01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:35,880 Speaker 1: well did you think urbanization isn't isn't accelerating? Yeah? And 1158 01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:39,520 Speaker 1: so tell me in twenty years twenty years ago, you know, 1159 01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:41,680 Speaker 1: tell me twenty more years of urbanization what that's going 1160 01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:44,440 Speaker 1: to continue to do. That strange thing is like urbanization 1161 01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,080 Speaker 1: is going to crush the animals more than hunting ever 1162 01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:49,000 Speaker 1: thought of it, and then we're going to get blamed 1163 01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,160 Speaker 1: for it. Well that you talk about parks and you 1164 01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:55,280 Speaker 1: talk about you know how many you switch it back 1165 01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:57,280 Speaker 1: to Yellowstone or even that you go back to Africa, 1166 01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:59,040 Speaker 1: like if you want, if you don't want any trophy 1167 01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:00,880 Speaker 1: hunting in Africa, and you don't want that, and you 1168 01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:03,040 Speaker 1: want to take away that value in the animal. You 1169 01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:06,400 Speaker 1: want to try to value that same animal through photo safaris. 1170 01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:09,400 Speaker 1: You have to run so many more people, so such 1171 01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:14,280 Speaker 1: bigger footprint to impact that ecosystem, and a more dramatic 1172 01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:16,000 Speaker 1: way than a few hunters going over there to shoot 1173 01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:19,360 Speaker 1: one big critter. And so it's not that's not a 1174 01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,160 Speaker 1: simple equation at all. No, And it changes, and not 1175 01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:25,040 Speaker 1: to mention changes the whole dynamic of things, because you know, 1176 01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:27,920 Speaker 1: if you're talking about killing one out of first fifty 1177 01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,800 Speaker 1: people taking a picture of an olk, you get oak, 1178 01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:33,000 Speaker 1: like the Yellowstone who has lost their soul and turned 1179 01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:34,960 Speaker 1: into a blow up doll. Yeah, and that's what I mean, 1180 01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:37,160 Speaker 1: Like we're allowed, like we allow that, and we have 1181 01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:41,400 Speaker 1: to allow it. But I do think hunting I will 1182 01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:45,560 Speaker 1: always be around in some form, but I think public 1183 01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:48,000 Speaker 1: reception is going to start to eat it, eat in 1184 01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:52,000 Speaker 1: its core. It's gonna have to there's no you know, 1185 01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:53,800 Speaker 1: I I go, I say that, and I will say 1186 01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:56,000 Speaker 1: the thing about escapism. But I think escapism and those 1187 01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,320 Speaker 1: types of things will continue to allow it to be 1188 01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:04,520 Speaker 1: around for sure. Yeah, But we went from having Amazon 1189 01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:07,280 Speaker 1: be able to deliver the other like a couple of 1190 01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:10,640 Speaker 1: When Amazon Prime first came out, my wife we were 1191 01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,000 Speaker 1: having some friends. Ever, my wife got like a cake, 1192 01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:17,680 Speaker 1: some playing cards, and uh, like a tire iron delivered 1193 01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,880 Speaker 1: to our house she ordered online. It came two hours later. 1194 01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:26,560 Speaker 1: Like that concept did exist ten years ago. That was 1195 01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:29,200 Speaker 1: so out in left field ten years ago. Yeah, and 1196 01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,480 Speaker 1: so now Amazon's like taking over the country and and 1197 01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:34,280 Speaker 1: they're gonna be drone delivering things to your house, and 1198 01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:38,000 Speaker 1: we're gonna be more more more connected disconnected every generation 1199 01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:41,040 Speaker 1: going forward. So maybe twenty years is a little short 1200 01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:43,400 Speaker 1: short time because that's only a couple of humans from now, 1201 01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:47,320 Speaker 1: but maybe fifty years or seventy five years, it's gonna 1202 01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:49,080 Speaker 1: be hard to find a human that really thinks the 1203 01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:50,920 Speaker 1: way you and I do. And I don't think that 1204 01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:52,840 Speaker 1: means Honey will go away, but I think it means 1205 01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:57,200 Speaker 1: it's gonna be it's gonna play this incredibly small role 1206 01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:02,080 Speaker 1: in society. And I'd mean interested to see how Europe's 1207 01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:05,400 Speaker 1: hunting and like this is something I should know, but 1208 01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:07,480 Speaker 1: I would have to go back and like do some 1209 01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:11,240 Speaker 1: research and figure out how because because hunting in Europe 1210 01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:14,760 Speaker 1: became very much a privatized first person. It was always 1211 01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:17,480 Speaker 1: an aristocracy over there, and like that goes all the 1212 01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,200 Speaker 1: way back to India that you know, does it go 1213 01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:24,040 Speaker 1: that far bank, Well, let's just say Europe. I'm not 1214 01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:25,680 Speaker 1: know his storian either, so I want to act like 1215 01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:29,400 Speaker 1: I am. But the aristocracy was always you know, I've 1216 01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:32,520 Speaker 1: been in places like Bulgaria where the aristocracy, like the hunted. 1217 01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:36,000 Speaker 1: The only counting culture they know is the aristocracy high 1218 01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:38,760 Speaker 1: fence hunting preserves where the communist dictators would bring all 1219 01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:41,880 Speaker 1: their you know, dictator buddies, like that's the hunting cultures 1220 01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:46,800 Speaker 1: that they know, and that was here in the eight hundreds. 1221 01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,640 Speaker 1: Well that's here too. And then look at Texas, Texas 1222 01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:55,040 Speaker 1: is this is I lived there. It is the closest 1223 01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:58,320 Speaker 1: thing to an aristocracy for hunting that that you could find. 1224 01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:01,240 Speaker 1: I'm just curious if that's what we had being could be, 1225 01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:06,080 Speaker 1: if history repeats itself, could be, and that that that means, 1226 01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:07,840 Speaker 1: you know, one of the most I think one of 1227 01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:11,520 Speaker 1: the most important things about our current model and why 1228 01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:14,240 Speaker 1: it works is the wild life as a trust like 1229 01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:16,240 Speaker 1: it doesn't belong. It lives in the state, but it 1230 01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:21,680 Speaker 1: does not belong. It belongs to the people. It doesn't 1231 01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:23,840 Speaker 1: belong to anyone, but it's managed by a state. But 1232 01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,000 Speaker 1: it you know, it can come. And as soon as 1233 01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:29,520 Speaker 1: you start to privatize lands to the point that Texas has, 1234 01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:33,000 Speaker 1: and then you can put a fence up and then 1235 01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:35,000 Speaker 1: you can then you've privatized the wild life, it's no 1236 01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:40,560 Speaker 1: longer in trust um. And so that's like a nuclear 1237 01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:44,960 Speaker 1: no offense Texas. But there's like some nuclear ideas in 1238 01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:48,040 Speaker 1: in what Texas does right now. There's some pretty cool 1239 01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:51,160 Speaker 1: things they do, but mostly nuclear. If you would go 1240 01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:53,360 Speaker 1: down the tenants of the North North American Mile of 1241 01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:56,040 Speaker 1: Wilife Conservation, they don't follow any of like maybe one 1242 01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:59,800 Speaker 1: of them, two of them, and so be that's that's allowed. 1243 01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:03,960 Speaker 1: We're not going now with bulldozers and bulldozs and the 1244 01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,080 Speaker 1: fences down because it doesn't line up with our ideologies 1245 01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:13,400 Speaker 1: right now. And so I just think that that that's 1246 01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:16,880 Speaker 1: one reality, but I think that the other realities that 1247 01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:20,920 Speaker 1: hunting as hunting takes on less of an importance in society. 1248 01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:24,280 Speaker 1: We'll find ways around hunting's connection to conservation, will find 1249 01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:27,680 Speaker 1: raise around hunting's connection to meat. We'll find it, just 1250 01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:31,160 Speaker 1: find ways around it. No that's that's a legitimate fare, 1251 01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:32,519 Speaker 1: and I think that's probably a closer to whatever it 1252 01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:35,040 Speaker 1: would be. I mean in New Zealand they raised red 1253 01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:40,479 Speaker 1: deer like cattle. Yeah, there's a lot of pieces to 1254 01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:44,320 Speaker 1: that puzzle early on that dictated that. Same with Texas. 1255 01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:49,160 Speaker 1: I mean Texas had the ALBUMA, they never had public land. Yeah. 1256 01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:51,760 Speaker 1: And then Texas was when when we require Texas it 1257 01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:54,760 Speaker 1: was all state, yes, state private lynds. Anyway, there was 1258 01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:57,479 Speaker 1: never any they never part of this. There was no 1259 01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:00,120 Speaker 1: Louisiana purchase where they could just they would say we 1260 01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:03,519 Speaker 1: declare this and this, and then it was already privatized land. 1261 01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:05,640 Speaker 1: So which is early pieces of puzzle. And I'm not 1262 01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:09,200 Speaker 1: justifying what they're what they have done, or how it operates, 1263 01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:13,800 Speaker 1: say with the New Zealand like market creates that. Yeah, 1264 01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:19,680 Speaker 1: and true capitalism that's sometimes the problem. I'm very pro capitalism, 1265 01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:22,840 Speaker 1: but there are certain problems to that. So like with 1266 01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:26,320 Speaker 1: New Zealand, Oh look we make extra dollars when this 1267 01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:30,880 Speaker 1: stag is bigger, non repeats itself. So then it just 1268 01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:35,320 Speaker 1: gets out of control because people like to make dollars something. Yeah, 1269 01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:38,559 Speaker 1: it's it's man, it's a super complicated topic. And I'm 1270 01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:42,559 Speaker 1: sure I wish I and better perspectives on those other 1271 01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:44,920 Speaker 1: histories and to inform it, but I don't know that 1272 01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:47,920 Speaker 1: there is a I would love for somebody to really 1273 01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:51,639 Speaker 1: take me through an example of how wildlife management changed 1274 01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:53,640 Speaker 1: in an area, in a place, in a country, in 1275 01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:55,439 Speaker 1: a region, in a content. I'll give a ship what 1276 01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:59,640 Speaker 1: it is. But like if and maybe Africa is the 1277 01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:04,120 Speaker 1: one when they started forming concessions and they went from 1278 01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:06,120 Speaker 1: almost no wild life to a bunch of wildlife behind 1279 01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:09,120 Speaker 1: fences and started taking in money from troph hunters. Like 1280 01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:11,599 Speaker 1: that's a seed change in the way that they see animals, 1281 01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:14,320 Speaker 1: but a sea change from necessity. You know, we don't 1282 01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:16,120 Speaker 1: have a lot of necessity when it comes to wildlife 1283 01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:18,080 Speaker 1: in this country. You know, we have a lot of elk, 1284 01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:19,360 Speaker 1: we got a lot of deer. We gotta you know, 1285 01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:22,920 Speaker 1: wild game at least um. We got a lot of turkeys, 1286 01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:25,240 Speaker 1: We got plenty of sheep, you know, but no one's 1287 01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:27,280 Speaker 1: ever had the public ground that we have so ak, 1288 01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:30,120 Speaker 1: no one's ever had the public animals that we've ever had. 1289 01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:34,080 Speaker 1: So yeah, those are those concepts are all within hunting. 1290 01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:35,840 Speaker 1: But it's like I think it always goes back to 1291 01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:38,879 Speaker 1: public perception. None of that ship matters. If the public 1292 01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:41,000 Speaker 1: doesn't none of that ship matters. If the public doesn't 1293 01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:45,600 Speaker 1: understand the good, people think you're wrong. Guess what you're wrong. 1294 01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:48,000 Speaker 1: And in this case, like if the public doesn't understand 1295 01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,040 Speaker 1: the good and hunting, I feel like we're just kind 1296 01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:55,240 Speaker 1: of like floating through and we like don't really we 1297 01:10:55,479 --> 01:11:01,120 Speaker 1: aren't really in ownership of it. Be guys, man, I 1298 01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:02,960 Speaker 1: don't know what the numbers are, but I would assume 1299 01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:07,120 Speaker 1: that O don't agree with hunting right now. Like if 1300 01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:10,960 Speaker 1: we took a national poll to tomorrow and people like, hey, 1301 01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:14,920 Speaker 1: something good or bad? That's what I mean. That's what 1302 01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:16,519 Speaker 1: I mean by like in twenty years, it could be 1303 01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:19,599 Speaker 1: twenty years. I'm talking about tomorrow. That's what I mean. 1304 01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:22,360 Speaker 1: Do you think it passed? I think it half. I've 1305 01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:25,960 Speaker 1: seen poles where it has passed, but it's always it's 1306 01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:28,600 Speaker 1: it's changed, right because modern sport hunting has changed the 1307 01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:31,360 Speaker 1: way people think about Like they split hunting into two camps. 1308 01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:35,799 Speaker 1: Non hunter has turphy hunting and regular you know, ethical 1309 01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:38,519 Speaker 1: man hunting where he eats the meat, you know, but 1310 01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:40,559 Speaker 1: they split it into two camps. So you have already 1311 01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:43,280 Speaker 1: taken an activity and split it up like some of 1312 01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:45,640 Speaker 1: it's good someone it's bad. Now. Parts of that I 1313 01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:50,439 Speaker 1: agree with, But that's you know, for the eleven point 1314 01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:52,800 Speaker 1: five million hunters that buy licenses to be split into 1315 01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:55,640 Speaker 1: these two groups with good hunters and bad hunters, now 1316 01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:58,559 Speaker 1: you're eleven point five doesn't seem quite a strong. I 1317 01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:02,800 Speaker 1: don't know how many quote unquote trophy hunters there are 1318 01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:05,400 Speaker 1: out there that that are in the eleven point five million, 1319 01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:08,559 Speaker 1: but I would say that I would say that of 1320 01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:11,559 Speaker 1: that eleven point five million, the ones that are trophy 1321 01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:15,200 Speaker 1: hunters by definition that the not by the non hunters 1322 01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:20,919 Speaker 1: definition of the term are would would not pass public approval. 1323 01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:27,559 Speaker 1: If you ask, is trophy hunting okay to the entirety 1324 01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:29,519 Speaker 1: of the population in this country, you would you would 1325 01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:33,200 Speaker 1: get overwhelming getting out of how do you even like 1326 01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:37,679 Speaker 1: compete with the media? But trophy hunting, the trophy hunting 1327 01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:41,480 Speaker 1: term is there like to delineate the bad hunting, isn't it? Yeah? 1328 01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:48,360 Speaker 1: But I'm a treasure hunter, yea treasure treasure bucks hashtag 1329 01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:52,160 Speaker 1: treasure bucks. Yeah. I mean, I think I think that's 1330 01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:55,640 Speaker 1: the problem that we've corded off a bad portion and 1331 01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:58,719 Speaker 1: that's not necessarily always true. Troph hunting isn't necessarily always 1332 01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:01,800 Speaker 1: a bad thing, but but public perception was what we're 1333 01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:09,200 Speaker 1: just there, see the hunter whatever you wanna call it. 1334 01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:14,360 Speaker 1: Air quotes hunter definition of our hunter. Way to combat 1335 01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:17,360 Speaker 1: trophy hunting is to say we're meat hunters, which is 1336 01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:21,840 Speaker 1: b s. It's bullshit, and the conservation is the other one. 1337 01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:25,320 Speaker 1: We say those two, which there's holes in it, And 1338 01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:29,880 Speaker 1: so people probably get tired of me saying that's doesn't 1339 01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:32,200 Speaker 1: cover everything. I just say, like, hunting is the thing 1340 01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:34,559 Speaker 1: I love, and the experience and all the things. There's 1341 01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,840 Speaker 1: all things wrapped up in the experience, and people heard 1342 01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:39,880 Speaker 1: me say it's a million times. But by products, the 1343 01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:43,920 Speaker 1: byproducts of that experience is meat and conservation. Yeah, I'm 1344 01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:46,360 Speaker 1: always aware that it's there, but there's are not the 1345 01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:48,759 Speaker 1: reasons I'm doing the things I'm doing, like, they just aren't. 1346 01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:53,440 Speaker 1: I think the better answer is to go after the experience, 1347 01:13:54,360 --> 01:14:00,599 Speaker 1: to go after this embodiment of everything we do wrapped 1348 01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:04,080 Speaker 1: into one because well, let's try to name I bet 1349 01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:06,400 Speaker 1: you can name like twenty things that embody the experience. 1350 01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:12,639 Speaker 1: Time outside alone time and nature, time with time spent 1351 01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:16,240 Speaker 1: with close friends, and this the camaraderie, this super three 1352 01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:19,800 Speaker 1: dimensional experience that's like highs and lows. The challenge, the 1353 01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:23,320 Speaker 1: skills um that the the innate skills that you have 1354 01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:28,800 Speaker 1: to learn about, the unknown, dangerous, the unknown, the disconnection. 1355 01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:32,320 Speaker 1: But like there's ten right there. The thing I will 1356 01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:38,240 Speaker 1: say is that this adventure, it's society people and you 1357 01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:43,639 Speaker 1: can see this watching Instagram. People are interested in going 1358 01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:47,639 Speaker 1: on new adventures, going new places, experiencing new things. And 1359 01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:52,200 Speaker 1: when they understand that capacity, they understand like, man, I 1360 01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:56,160 Speaker 1: really love going adventuring, hiking, whatever may be right. When 1361 01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:58,840 Speaker 1: you're like, hey, this is if we can relate that 1362 01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:07,960 Speaker 1: to hunting, I mean it's the same thing, it's only better. Yeah, man, boy, 1363 01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:09,960 Speaker 1: there's some good there's like I said, there's some good 1364 01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:15,479 Speaker 1: threads in there, and we'll continue to try to connect them. 1365 01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:17,920 Speaker 1: And I think I think they can be connected because 1366 01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:21,880 Speaker 1: and I I'm unwilling to to to give up on it, 1367 01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:26,240 Speaker 1: even though I think it's it's looking at it with 1368 01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:32,320 Speaker 1: just clear vision and saying hey man, they ain't looking good. 1369 01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:35,200 Speaker 1: Then the public perception side, it's not look the public 1370 01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:39,200 Speaker 1: perception specifically what I'm talking about twenty years it ain't 1371 01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:43,720 Speaker 1: going the right way, escapism being what it is, you know, 1372 01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:47,720 Speaker 1: meat like the wild meat movement being what it is, 1373 01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:52,639 Speaker 1: the hunt fit movement being what it is. All those 1374 01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:55,920 Speaker 1: things combined that those forces are not strong enough to 1375 01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:58,479 Speaker 1: change public perception in the way that it needs to 1376 01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:01,360 Speaker 1: be changed. Now, maybe something comes up and happens later 1377 01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:05,160 Speaker 1: on that I'm not aware of currently. Um. I would 1378 01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:07,920 Speaker 1: even lump conservation into that because it's such an entangled 1379 01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:11,479 Speaker 1: mess of truths and half truths and things that we've 1380 01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:15,519 Speaker 1: talked about. So I think I think all those forces 1381 01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:21,720 Speaker 1: being positive are not enough to fight freaking urbanism, to 1382 01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:26,000 Speaker 1: fight urbanization it's growing at a crazy rate, to fight technology, 1383 01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:28,920 Speaker 1: to fight the way humans think and pursue the world. 1384 01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:31,839 Speaker 1: Like those things are changing way faster than the forces 1385 01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:34,800 Speaker 1: of positive forces of hunting can combat them. Yeah, and 1386 01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:38,640 Speaker 1: just because this is like your podcast, I will say, 1387 01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:41,360 Speaker 1: like my theory and I don't want to like downtrot 1388 01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:44,479 Speaker 1: the meat aspect of it, because I do. I do 1389 01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:47,800 Speaker 1: really truly believe that people get into this. They tell 1390 01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:50,200 Speaker 1: themselves like, oh man, I'm gonna do it for the meat, 1391 01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:54,320 Speaker 1: and that's awesome. That's great, I laugh, because you're gonna 1392 01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:57,519 Speaker 1: experience so much more. It's gonna change your life. And 1393 01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:02,000 Speaker 1: it's so cool that, like meat is what we tell ourselves. 1394 01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:03,920 Speaker 1: I see, so I see it all the time. People 1395 01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:06,080 Speaker 1: are like, yeah, I just I just really wanted to 1396 01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:07,720 Speaker 1: get out there and I want to harvest my own meat. 1397 01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:11,080 Speaker 1: And I laugh because I'm like, you're about to experience 1398 01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:16,840 Speaker 1: a life. It's so crazy and the experiences so rich. 1399 01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:22,120 Speaker 1: They'll just change your perception. I think it goes but 1400 01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:23,960 Speaker 1: like this goes way back to the very start of 1401 01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:26,760 Speaker 1: this conversation where we're talking about like how do you 1402 01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:30,479 Speaker 1: make a decision? How how do you And I'm saying, like, 1403 01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:33,360 Speaker 1: just don't get caught up on one destination, dude. If 1404 01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:35,120 Speaker 1: you if you're just out there for me, you miss 1405 01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:38,800 Speaker 1: so much ship that it's silly, like you just if 1406 01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:41,960 Speaker 1: you're out there just for the head of the animal, 1407 01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:44,559 Speaker 1: you miss so much stuff. If you're out there just 1408 01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:47,200 Speaker 1: like man, the carrying capacity of this land, I gotta 1409 01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:50,000 Speaker 1: I gotta kill seventy five deer over the next year, 1410 01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:51,720 Speaker 1: and you're out there just popping deer to get your 1411 01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:54,800 Speaker 1: seventy five number, which I don't know a lot of 1412 01:17:54,800 --> 01:18:00,720 Speaker 1: people do that, but that's conservation and like maybe it's 1413 01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:03,559 Speaker 1: a raws for him, but you know, if you're doing 1414 01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:06,439 Speaker 1: all that, you're just missing out on thinks. So I 1415 01:18:06,479 --> 01:18:08,320 Speaker 1: think I think most people that I've talked to on 1416 01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:11,920 Speaker 1: this podcast are are down with like the the idea 1417 01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:14,200 Speaker 1: that this experience is something that we all need to 1418 01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:17,600 Speaker 1: work on together, and that that there's no way to 1419 01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:20,160 Speaker 1: define it for all of us, but we all need 1420 01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:22,439 Speaker 1: to work on defining it somehow, Like let's all continue 1421 01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:26,000 Speaker 1: to to to kind of hammer away at it and 1422 01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:29,280 Speaker 1: see where we get how we can use that experiential 1423 01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:32,720 Speaker 1: story to to make it a little more relatable and 1424 01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:36,320 Speaker 1: going back, like I really do believe that the way 1425 01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:38,599 Speaker 1: I tell it, the way you tell it, the way 1426 01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:43,360 Speaker 1: Cal tells it, whoever, everyone's gonna have a little bit 1427 01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:45,800 Speaker 1: different story because it's like what's important to them, it's 1428 01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:48,080 Speaker 1: a little more important of it. And you know, maybe 1429 01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:51,320 Speaker 1: adventure and pushing yourself is more important to me, but 1430 01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:55,760 Speaker 1: to Callahan, it's like meat is number one. And that's 1431 01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:58,519 Speaker 1: fine because there's gonna be people regular that resonate with 1432 01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:01,720 Speaker 1: what Cal says, and there's people resonate what I say, 1433 01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:04,439 Speaker 1: and like this just there's a million ways to do it, 1434 01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:06,519 Speaker 1: to do it, but at the end of the day, 1435 01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:10,640 Speaker 1: like it's so important. Well, that's right, That's why I 1436 01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:14,000 Speaker 1: like your podcast and the things that you do are 1437 01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:17,519 Speaker 1: important to me because I want them to succeed because 1438 01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:20,679 Speaker 1: it's important. I think that there's a I've talked about 1439 01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:21,960 Speaker 1: this before and this is the other thing that I 1440 01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:25,920 Speaker 1: don't think it's quite powerful enough to get hunting in 1441 01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:28,120 Speaker 1: the future where it needs to be. But there's a 1442 01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:32,120 Speaker 1: group of like year old folks that are just now 1443 01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:35,000 Speaker 1: discovering hunting for the first time through people like you, 1444 01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:38,880 Speaker 1: through people like Callahands, people like Ronella, and they feel 1445 01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:41,519 Speaker 1: like they have a community of people that want to 1446 01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:44,040 Speaker 1: excites them and energize them, inspires them to go hunting, 1447 01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:46,720 Speaker 1: but also continues to be a part of their lot 1448 01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:48,680 Speaker 1: like potential to be a part of their lives and 1449 01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:51,880 Speaker 1: motivates them to do it. Gives them a feeling a 1450 01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:54,960 Speaker 1: community where there may not be a community for them, 1451 01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:56,639 Speaker 1: because there's a lot of people that live in suburban 1452 01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:59,000 Speaker 1: areas or that live in urban areas that go hunt, 1453 01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:00,880 Speaker 1: but they don't have a bunch of buddies that do 1454 01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:05,240 Speaker 1: when they need something. And I think your content and 1455 01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:10,840 Speaker 1: other people's content like yours will allow that demo to 1456 01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:13,240 Speaker 1: create a new generation of hunters just in there is 1457 01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:15,000 Speaker 1: big enough to really get us where we want to go. 1458 01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:17,679 Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm kind of you know, I'm back 1459 01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:21,080 Speaker 1: and forth skeptical even in this conversation, back and forth, 1460 01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:23,559 Speaker 1: what how how I think that's going to help us 1461 01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:27,000 Speaker 1: for sure, But I do think that's that's the ultimate solution. 1462 01:20:27,080 --> 01:20:30,800 Speaker 1: Should there be Should you have to list one thing? Yeah, 1463 01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:35,840 Speaker 1: it's uh two parts of that. One part is like 1464 01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:39,080 Speaker 1: people always give me a lot of flak for giving 1465 01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:41,320 Speaker 1: away secrets and all this, and I'm like, listen, I'm 1466 01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:45,000 Speaker 1: gonna get I'm gonna be successful whether I give everyone 1467 01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:48,280 Speaker 1: the answer or not. And the more people I can 1468 01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:51,880 Speaker 1: help be successful, the longer they do it. Because I've 1469 01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:54,280 Speaker 1: I've met people. I just this weekend we had it 1470 01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:56,160 Speaker 1: with some guys with the hushing and the born Ares 1471 01:20:56,240 --> 01:21:01,000 Speaker 1: guys and the guy you know, started hunting eight years ago. 1472 01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:03,280 Speaker 1: It's still not successful, never killed a big game animal. 1473 01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:07,479 Speaker 1: Like if he hadn't given up yet, like he's probably fine, 1474 01:21:07,479 --> 01:21:11,479 Speaker 1: but people would have given up by this point. And 1475 01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:14,200 Speaker 1: so you know, for me, it goes back to like, hey, 1476 01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:17,160 Speaker 1: helping people be successful because I truly believe if you 1477 01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:19,639 Speaker 1: find success, you will be hooked. And I think too 1478 01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:23,120 Speaker 1: many people come into this. I hate to use the 1479 01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:27,280 Speaker 1: word sport, but whatever you wanna call it, don't find 1480 01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:30,280 Speaker 1: success and give up. And you know, maybe they're not 1481 01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:33,360 Speaker 1: anti hunters, but they're definitely not promponents. I'm not driving 1482 01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:36,720 Speaker 1: the next person next to them. Yea, well not in 1483 01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:39,160 Speaker 1: the hunting culture. We're all a part of it. It is. 1484 01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:42,400 Speaker 1: It's more about success and it is about failure. Um 1485 01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:47,320 Speaker 1: just inherently. Um. I think that's natural and okay at 1486 01:21:47,360 --> 01:21:49,720 Speaker 1: some level. But also you know, I think we need 1487 01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:51,880 Speaker 1: to be cognizant of those people out there that are 1488 01:21:51,920 --> 01:21:54,479 Speaker 1: looking to connect with failure, like they're looking to be 1489 01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:58,320 Speaker 1: like man, that damn that fell on Instagram. So he's 1490 01:21:58,320 --> 01:22:01,280 Speaker 1: always turned up with the dead animal. He seems like 1491 01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:03,559 Speaker 1: once every couple of months turned up with his dead animal, 1492 01:22:03,640 --> 01:22:06,080 Speaker 1: and I never never see him sticking airs into the 1493 01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:08,720 Speaker 1: ground or anything like that. I think it's important just 1494 01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:11,200 Speaker 1: to tell that whole story too, because that that helps people. 1495 01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:14,800 Speaker 1: But there is man, just just I think, just by 1496 01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:20,120 Speaker 1: evidence of this conversation, it's such a twisted like twisted 1497 01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:26,040 Speaker 1: it yeah, man, And so it's good to start conversations 1498 01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:28,760 Speaker 1: for sure, and um, I hope people can can think 1499 01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:31,320 Speaker 1: about because even this. But what I say away from 1500 01:22:31,320 --> 01:22:34,720 Speaker 1: this conversation is like, there's so many hopeful things that 1501 01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:37,840 Speaker 1: you can talk about. But at the end of the day, 1502 01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:40,200 Speaker 1: and I've said this before, but at the end of 1503 01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:42,280 Speaker 1: the day, if hunting was a business, you would not 1504 01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:46,200 Speaker 1: buy stock right today. I don't think you would. Wow, 1505 01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:47,920 Speaker 1: I never thought about it like that. I don't think 1506 01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:49,479 Speaker 1: you would. I mean if you would say, like, well, 1507 01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:53,320 Speaker 1: you know, less people are doing it, more people don't 1508 01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:57,800 Speaker 1: understand it, and that is those both those trends are 1509 01:22:57,800 --> 01:22:59,839 Speaker 1: going in the wrong. And if you were an investor 1510 01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:02,680 Speaker 1: and hunting, you'd be figuring out how you'd be like 1511 01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:05,120 Speaker 1: to make it popularly, like yeah, you'd be figuring out 1512 01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:06,680 Speaker 1: how you'd also be like, well, I bought in in 1513 01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:10,200 Speaker 1: the eighties at eighteen five, I really thought, and I 1514 01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:12,439 Speaker 1: thought we'd be like thirty five by now and I 1515 01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:14,320 Speaker 1: could cash out and make my money. But we're down 1516 01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:16,400 Speaker 1: there at eleven five. So I gotta stick with this 1517 01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:19,920 Speaker 1: thing because I'm not gonna get out and lose all. 1518 01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:24,880 Speaker 1: And so I firmly believe that. But I and I 1519 01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:27,160 Speaker 1: believe we all need to know that, Like, these conversations 1520 01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:29,360 Speaker 1: only as good as the perspective that we have about 1521 01:23:29,400 --> 01:23:33,760 Speaker 1: what's going on. You know, that's a eye opening perspective 1522 01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:36,920 Speaker 1: because if you're an investor in hunting, and you should be, 1523 01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:41,799 Speaker 1: you should probably be doing your damnedest to fix that stock. Yeah, 1524 01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:44,040 Speaker 1: and that's why I think, you know, I work for 1525 01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:48,920 Speaker 1: a brand that feels that, Like, you know, that's why 1526 01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:52,280 Speaker 1: why I think it's a little more incumbent upon you know, 1527 01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:57,599 Speaker 1: all of us brands, media folks, you know, influencers, whoever 1528 01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:01,760 Speaker 1: is to continue to understand that like things not doing 1529 01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:06,200 Speaker 1: too good, it's not doing it. And there's I mean, 1530 01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:10,200 Speaker 1: there's articles in Forbes about the issue with conservation funding 1531 01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:12,719 Speaker 1: and the fact there's less hunters, you know, less people 1532 01:24:13,360 --> 01:24:16,280 Speaker 1: there to fund the fund state wildlife agencies. Like people 1533 01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:18,240 Speaker 1: are starting to take notice that, like this thing is 1534 01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:20,120 Speaker 1: from the street level. Do you think it is, though, 1535 01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:22,040 Speaker 1: because I feel like from the street level, I feel like, man, 1536 01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:24,040 Speaker 1: and maybe it's just because I'm engulfed in it a 1537 01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:26,200 Speaker 1: lot more than I used to be, But I feel 1538 01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:30,519 Speaker 1: like there's so many more people hunting, and I get 1539 01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:34,519 Speaker 1: you talk about West first East coast thing. That's hard. 1540 01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:37,240 Speaker 1: I can't quantify that number. I just really trust and 1541 01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:42,880 Speaker 1: whoever did that survey, I do not have time to 1542 01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:45,160 Speaker 1: do my own survey. Maybe they just crack down on 1543 01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:48,280 Speaker 1: the number of dudes buying what licenses for their wives, 1544 01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:53,240 Speaker 1: and like we just got that number in a half. Yeah, 1545 01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:56,000 Speaker 1: that could be. Yeah, I mean I hope they're right. 1546 01:24:56,200 --> 01:24:57,760 Speaker 1: Well I hope they're wrong. I hope those numbers are 1547 01:24:57,800 --> 01:25:01,920 Speaker 1: terribly wrong. But at some level there there are what 1548 01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:04,000 Speaker 1: they are. It's always been. We look at the trends 1549 01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:05,800 Speaker 1: it since the nineteen eighties and number has been kind 1550 01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:09,639 Speaker 1: of so we were celebrating re member like twenty eleven. 1551 01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:13,320 Speaker 1: Maybe we were celebrating like it didn't go down. There 1552 01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:15,519 Speaker 1: was a short time where some numbers came out and 1553 01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:18,800 Speaker 1: it went from you know, fourteen million to fourteen five 1554 01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:20,599 Speaker 1: or something over a very short period of time. I'm 1555 01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:22,240 Speaker 1: just kind of making that up in my head, but 1556 01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:24,519 Speaker 1: there was a period of time where hunting had had 1557 01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:28,519 Speaker 1: kind of flatlined and wasn't consistently going down, and that 1558 01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:31,719 Speaker 1: was like a celebration like wait did it why we're 1559 01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:35,080 Speaker 1: women game? And they're saying and then but then precipitously 1560 01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:37,040 Speaker 1: boom fell right off the cliff, and the next in 1561 01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:40,800 Speaker 1: the next five years. It's all that one in a 1562 01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:46,520 Speaker 1: million times. Yeah, I think that. I think that's. Um, 1563 01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:49,280 Speaker 1: that's why I like to have these conversations because it's 1564 01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:52,320 Speaker 1: it's it's it's as important to me as anything that 1565 01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:56,520 Speaker 1: I have outside of my family. And and that's why 1566 01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:59,599 Speaker 1: I'm unwilling to have just one idea about it, unwilling 1567 01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:01,519 Speaker 1: to be like hunting. It has to be this and 1568 01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:03,720 Speaker 1: will always be this, and this is the right way 1569 01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:05,040 Speaker 1: to do it. And if you don't do it this way, 1570 01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:08,680 Speaker 1: you're screwed. Like I'm always contradicting myself and I'll just 1571 01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:11,400 Speaker 1: never to get to pent if you only do it 1572 01:26:11,439 --> 01:26:14,479 Speaker 1: your way. Yeah, that's why I'm always rethinking things. I 1573 01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:19,479 Speaker 1: just said. Was that right? Right? I had solid reasoning 1574 01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:21,280 Speaker 1: around it, but maybe it wasn't even right. Dude. I 1575 01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:23,360 Speaker 1: get that way. When I'm like halfway through a sense, 1576 01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:26,160 Speaker 1: I'm like, wait a minute, where was it going. I 1577 01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:28,160 Speaker 1: don't know if that's right. Keep going with it, just 1578 01:26:28,360 --> 01:26:33,840 Speaker 1: run it, going with it well before we go, Um, 1579 01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:35,680 Speaker 1: I want you to try to, like, you know, we 1580 01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:39,479 Speaker 1: were talking about entre being an entrepreneur earlier, Um, and 1581 01:26:39,600 --> 01:26:44,400 Speaker 1: you you are one and uh successful one? Um, do 1582 01:26:44,439 --> 01:26:48,599 Speaker 1: you have any In an episode, I think fourteen talks 1583 01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:50,479 Speaker 1: to Casey Butler about kind of the same idea, like 1584 01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:54,320 Speaker 1: what is it that allows you to you know, make 1585 01:26:54,360 --> 01:26:57,559 Speaker 1: a jump and not have a nine five and really 1586 01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:00,160 Speaker 1: just take what like your own idea isn't turn them 1587 01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:02,880 Speaker 1: in that your livelihood? Like what is what would you 1588 01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:04,920 Speaker 1: tell people who have that question, because there's truly is 1589 01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:08,840 Speaker 1: a lot of them, which it's it's tough for me 1590 01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:11,320 Speaker 1: to answer that in the capacity that I've never actually 1591 01:27:11,320 --> 01:27:14,679 Speaker 1: had a ninety five. Um, so I don't know any 1592 01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:20,799 Speaker 1: other way. But one of my biggest motivators, and Kelsie 1593 01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:23,120 Speaker 1: will tell you this because like when I'm there's bad days. 1594 01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:26,519 Speaker 1: Everyone has bad days, especially entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs actually have twice 1595 01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:34,880 Speaker 1: as many bad days fun fact. Um. She's like, well, 1596 01:27:34,920 --> 01:27:37,519 Speaker 1: you can always go get a job. And to me 1597 01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:40,600 Speaker 1: that it's just like the number one thing that motivates 1598 01:27:40,640 --> 01:27:43,559 Speaker 1: me to push harder. It's like, I don't, man, I 1599 01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:46,120 Speaker 1: can't do it. I can't work for anyone else. But 1600 01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:51,400 Speaker 1: I think that stems from man, you only get one life, 1601 01:27:51,800 --> 01:27:55,080 Speaker 1: you like, you only get one life and it's so short. 1602 01:27:55,760 --> 01:27:58,080 Speaker 1: Do what you're gonna do. And like, I don't know 1603 01:27:58,240 --> 01:28:01,800 Speaker 1: why or how I ended up with that mentality. I'm 1604 01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:05,000 Speaker 1: just super thankful that I have it. But there's nothing 1605 01:28:05,080 --> 01:28:08,760 Speaker 1: like entrepreneurship is my oxygen, the same way hunting it 1606 01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:11,200 Speaker 1: is like, and I I think about this a lot. 1607 01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:13,960 Speaker 1: I was hunting this last weekend and I haven't got 1608 01:28:13,960 --> 01:28:15,920 Speaker 1: a chance to hunt a lot just because I've been 1609 01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:20,559 Speaker 1: busy grinding. But I was like, man, I love hunting. 1610 01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:24,040 Speaker 1: It was ringing, it was terrible. We didn't see a 1611 01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:26,640 Speaker 1: bear all weekend, and I loved it. And I was 1612 01:28:26,680 --> 01:28:30,440 Speaker 1: just laughing at myself, thinking like, man, this is my oxygen. 1613 01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:32,920 Speaker 1: This is what keeps me going through the hard times. 1614 01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:36,760 Speaker 1: And think the same capacity to flip side of that 1615 01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:39,479 Speaker 1: is that entrepreneurship to me is like the same thing. 1616 01:28:40,400 --> 01:28:43,360 Speaker 1: And then it doesn't necessarily have to be entrepreneurship. I 1617 01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:48,080 Speaker 1: think doing things you love that's what's important, whether that's 1618 01:28:48,080 --> 01:28:51,040 Speaker 1: for yourself or you know the company you work for. 1619 01:28:51,080 --> 01:28:52,840 Speaker 1: If you believe in the company your work when you're 1620 01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:55,599 Speaker 1: doing it, you know what you love, that's what's important, 1621 01:28:56,560 --> 01:28:59,600 Speaker 1: and that's all that's it. But the reality is just 1622 01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:04,040 Speaker 1: do what love, because it's not that hard to make 1623 01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:07,599 Speaker 1: a living doing what you truly enjoy. And that doesn't 1624 01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:09,160 Speaker 1: have to be for yourself. I think a lot of 1625 01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:13,920 Speaker 1: people struggle through life trying to work for themselves themselves. 1626 01:29:14,040 --> 01:29:17,680 Speaker 1: When you could work for a company you truly believe it, 1627 01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:19,960 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like you could sitting at 1628 01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:24,080 Speaker 1: the opposday, Well, I've I've never worked for myself. Um, 1629 01:29:24,120 --> 01:29:26,599 Speaker 1: but you've worked for awesome companies. You've done awesome things. Yeah, 1630 01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:29,840 Speaker 1: that's right. These companies is like you you're selling a 1631 01:29:29,840 --> 01:29:31,920 Speaker 1: little bit of yourself to them, Like you're selling that 1632 01:29:32,040 --> 01:29:33,960 Speaker 1: connection in the belief of what they do. And you 1633 01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:36,559 Speaker 1: don't have you don't have overall control of the thing, 1634 01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:39,280 Speaker 1: but you have to be proud to be part of it. 1635 01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:42,000 Speaker 1: And that's I think that's the difference. And if you're 1636 01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:44,920 Speaker 1: part of something really cool, then that's okay. To the 1637 01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:46,840 Speaker 1: point that you're part of something you don't really believe 1638 01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:48,680 Speaker 1: in and you're just nine to five and then but 1639 01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:51,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've been there as well as where you know, 1640 01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:53,920 Speaker 1: you had to take a leap of faith absolutely taking 1641 01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:57,400 Speaker 1: a marketing job and your journalist like, yeah, to take 1642 01:29:57,439 --> 01:30:00,320 Speaker 1: that leap of faith and it boils down to like, hey, 1643 01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:03,360 Speaker 1: it feels right, the vibes right, the energy is right, 1644 01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:07,560 Speaker 1: the chakras right. Yeah, you call it. But at the 1645 01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:11,360 Speaker 1: end of the day, you get one run, man, one run. 1646 01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:13,800 Speaker 1: Do what you want to do, because it's not like 1647 01:30:15,200 --> 01:30:17,760 Speaker 1: you're blessed to be in America where you can be 1648 01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:22,800 Speaker 1: like to damn a journalist, marketer. What is the name 1649 01:30:22,880 --> 01:30:27,840 Speaker 1: where market markets? Market is market? Um? Wait wait, I 1650 01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:29,160 Speaker 1: coined that too. We got a lot of stuff. We 1651 01:30:29,200 --> 01:30:32,240 Speaker 1: gotta say, you off this one. So many hashtags? So many? 1652 01:30:33,320 --> 01:30:35,799 Speaker 1: Do you think I should have a hashtag for this podcast? 1653 01:30:36,200 --> 01:30:39,760 Speaker 1: What is your hashtag? Don't have one? Cash Eggs died 1654 01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:46,600 Speaker 1: like two years. Yeah, posting them my Space that I know. 1655 01:30:46,760 --> 01:30:50,040 Speaker 1: I saw some some growth my mice, my my Space 1656 01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:53,439 Speaker 1: account when I used hashtags. So yeah, God, that was me. 1657 01:30:53,600 --> 01:30:55,559 Speaker 1: I was the one clicking. I was like, finally somebody 1658 01:30:55,560 --> 01:31:00,720 Speaker 1: else's face. I gotta know. Well, man, I apreciate um. 1659 01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:03,120 Speaker 1: You have me out to your house here in Bozeman. 1660 01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:05,280 Speaker 1: It's nice. Um, it seems like you've got a nice, 1661 01:31:05,479 --> 01:31:09,519 Speaker 1: nice gig here and it was terrible. You don't I 1662 01:31:09,800 --> 01:31:13,759 Speaker 1: would like I think Bozeman it's snowed. It's for the record, 1663 01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:20,920 Speaker 1: it's snowed last night. Yeah, it's June, June. It's snowed 1664 01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:24,840 Speaker 1: last night. It's great. And there's bears everywhere. Dude, it's terrible. 1665 01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:28,200 Speaker 1: I mean it's thirteen grizzly bears. My trash can it was. Yeah, 1666 01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:34,400 Speaker 1: I would never you know, you got Cody. There's like 1667 01:31:34,439 --> 01:31:38,080 Speaker 1: wearing a buffalo hide with a shotgun like it's it's 1668 01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:41,800 Speaker 1: real Western out. You don't stay in your homes, don't 1669 01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:44,559 Speaker 1: your kids, don't move to both your lives, don't come 1670 01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:49,400 Speaker 1: here please, um, thanks man and appreciate. Uh. We had 1671 01:31:49,400 --> 01:31:56,439 Speaker 1: a lovely dinner with your lovely fiance Fance like the 1672 01:31:56,479 --> 01:32:00,240 Speaker 1: word he's getting married like a short time, like a mom, mom. 1673 01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:03,680 Speaker 1: It's the way, my god and true Montana fashion in 1674 01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:09,560 Speaker 1: my backyard, backyard. I'll watch that for the bears. We 1675 01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:11,800 Speaker 1: I will say this to keep saying to end it, 1676 01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:15,360 Speaker 1: but we'll keep going. We're talking about and folks can 1677 01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:16,960 Speaker 1: tell us this will come out before the wedding. So 1678 01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:18,519 Speaker 1: if you guys think it's a good idea, let us 1679 01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:22,719 Speaker 1: know quickly. We were talking about whereas Yettie might sponsor 1680 01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:27,560 Speaker 1: the wedding and I will unabashedly make this happen and 1681 01:32:27,680 --> 01:32:30,080 Speaker 1: make Cody wear like a giant Yettie patch on the 1682 01:32:30,160 --> 01:32:33,560 Speaker 1: back of his wedding suit, or I will wear a 1683 01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:37,479 Speaker 1: Yeti onesie. And then we were talking about maybe, you know, 1684 01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:39,920 Speaker 1: not throw stone Glacier out there too heavy, but maybe 1685 01:32:40,360 --> 01:32:42,519 Speaker 1: Kelsey could be sponsored by Stone Glacier and be wearing 1686 01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:47,920 Speaker 1: a Stone Glacier pack just going down the first light dress. 1687 01:32:48,280 --> 01:32:51,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, baby, the shoes are really nice, but crispy. 1688 01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:56,120 Speaker 1: You can lower the lower the low topics. This goes 1689 01:32:56,200 --> 01:32:58,559 Speaker 1: back to, like the very beginning, we like talking about 1690 01:32:58,560 --> 01:33:01,320 Speaker 1: the selling your souls to the devil outward? Why not, 1691 01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:04,679 Speaker 1: like somebody's gotta pay for those pork shops, Like catering 1692 01:33:04,760 --> 01:33:07,160 Speaker 1: is expensive. So if everybody thinks it's a good idea 1693 01:33:07,240 --> 01:33:10,840 Speaker 1: for for Cody to get his wedding sponsored by various 1694 01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:13,600 Speaker 1: outdoor companies, let us know, because then we'll have to 1695 01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:18,920 Speaker 1: get a film. Crewe lets goes down. I'm okay with this, 1696 01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:22,920 Speaker 1: all right, check check back in July. We'll let you know. Alright, 1697 01:33:23,040 --> 01:33:27,200 Speaker 1: Thanks man, that's all. It's it episode number seventeen in 1698 01:33:27,280 --> 01:33:30,120 Speaker 1: the books. Thank you, Cody Rich grabbing me out to 1699 01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:33,640 Speaker 1: your beautiful home and Bozeman and for the great conversation 1700 01:33:34,960 --> 01:33:40,400 Speaker 1: and the whiskey. Next episode coming up. It's very exciting, 1701 01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:43,840 Speaker 1: not that Cody wasn't exciting. It's a great conversation. But 1702 01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:49,759 Speaker 1: the next episode is with none other and Cole Creamer. 1703 01:33:51,280 --> 01:33:56,320 Speaker 1: You may know Cold Cramer from codyak Alaska, may know 1704 01:33:56,520 --> 01:33:59,960 Speaker 1: Cold Cramer from our hunting trips to Nepal, which us 1705 01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:03,120 Speaker 1: poken about a lot on the podcast. Or you may 1706 01:34:03,160 --> 01:34:06,160 Speaker 1: know him as a sick athlete. But he is an 1707 01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:09,840 Speaker 1: interesting fellow. I'm glad to have him join me for 1708 01:34:09,960 --> 01:34:14,360 Speaker 1: episode number eighteen, so check us back next week. Until then, 1709 01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:19,920 Speaker 1: the Hunting clex dot com articles, videos, other podcasts. Guys 1710 01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:24,640 Speaker 1: like Steve Ronella, Brammy Warren, John Dudley, Shane Mahoney and 1711 01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:30,439 Speaker 1: many more check us out. We'll see you next ye