1
00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:04,240
Speaker 1: Foll Zone Media.

2
00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,560
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, the podcast,

3
00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:13,800
Speaker 2: whose title is also its description. Thanks Thanks, I workshop

4
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:15,560
Speaker 2: that one. I was walking my dog when I came

5
00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,880
Speaker 2: up with that one. With me today is Matt Leeb,

6
00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,560
Speaker 2: who is a comedian, an anti Zionist Jew, and a

7
00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,720
Speaker 2: podcast host of the podcast pod Yourself a Gun, which

8
00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,840
Speaker 2: is also a literally named podcast. It is a podcast

9
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,040
Speaker 2: about how to find podcasts with which to get information

10
00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:33,880
Speaker 2: about three D printing firearms.

11
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,680
Speaker 3: That's one hundred percent of what it's about. It's a

12
00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,279
Speaker 3: little bit about the wire and the sopranos, and it's

13
00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,600
Speaker 3: a lot a bit about how to make that gun

14
00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,080
Speaker 3: that killed Chinzo Abbey.

15
00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:46,920
Speaker 2: Exactly.

16
00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,200
Speaker 3: It's most wonderbutcast, Yeah.

17
00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,400
Speaker 1: You reached your target audience on that show.

18
00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know what I'm talking to. It's cool

19
00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:00,160
Speaker 3: Zone Media. Yeah, you guys, you have an audience of

20
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,640
Speaker 3: a certain type, and they're the type of people I like.

21
00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited to have you on for the topic.

22
00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:08,720
Speaker 2: But before we talk about the topic, we're gonna talk

23
00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:09,919
Speaker 2: about Sophie, who's our producer.

24
00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:12,039
Speaker 1: I'm wow.

25
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,880
Speaker 2: And that's good. Ian who is our audio engineer. Everyone

26
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,440
Speaker 2: has to say hi to Ian Hi. I. Our theme

27
00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:25,240
Speaker 2: music was written for us by Unwoman and today, Matt,

28
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,120
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've heard about this, but there's

29
00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,000
Speaker 2: been a sort of it's not don't worry, We're not

30
00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,360
Speaker 2: going to talk about modern affairs, current affairs, Okay, yeah,

31
00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,160
Speaker 2: going to the past. But there is there's been a

32
00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,319
Speaker 2: bit of a k fluffle going on over in the

33
00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,280
Speaker 2: Holy Land. I don't know if you've heard about this.

34
00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:43,480
Speaker 3: You know what, I'm gonna be honest with you. I

35
00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,280
Speaker 3: don't know much about it. I uh, I just you know.

36
00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,600
Speaker 3: I I go on to TikTok and the kids are

37
00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:55,200
Speaker 3: telling me to uh to dance and be pro Palestine,

38
00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,080
Speaker 3: and I'm like, okay, I want to be cool.

39
00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 4: You know.

40
00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:58,640
Speaker 3: I want the kids to like me.

41
00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is why I did a pretty amazing speech

42
00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,240
Speaker 2: that everyone check out.

43
00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,520
Speaker 3: You can you can check out that speech on you know,

44
00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:09,960
Speaker 3: one of those one of those social media apps.

45
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:10,679
Speaker 4: Yeah.

46
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, No. I obviously I know a little bit about it,

47
00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,919
Speaker 3: and which is why I've decided to put my entire

48
00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,239
Speaker 3: career at risk in order to talk about it. That's

49
00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,200
Speaker 3: that is a thing that I feel at least educated

50
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,960
Speaker 3: enough to talk about. And I also feel like you

51
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,720
Speaker 3: don't actually need to be that educated to talk about it.

52
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:35,360
Speaker 3: But that's just my personal opinion.

53
00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,640
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, I think that there's there's plenty to know,

54
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,880
Speaker 2: but a lot of the basics you can learn fairly

55
00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,240
Speaker 2: quickly by looking at the situation. Yeah, but this week

56
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,480
Speaker 2: we're going to be talking about some of the many,

57
00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:53,200
Speaker 2: many Jews and Israelis and some other internationals who haven't

58
00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 2: bought into the Zionist line and have thrown down alongside

59
00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,680
Speaker 2: of and in solidarity with the Palestinian people.

60
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,240
Speaker 3: Hell, yes, I love it. These are my people, These

61
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,520
Speaker 3: these are my Jews. These are the ones that I

62
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,679
Speaker 3: hang out with the most, and you know, try to

63
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,640
Speaker 3: get arrested with the most, try and fail. I was

64
00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,840
Speaker 3: telling y'all before the pod started the speech. We did

65
00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,760
Speaker 3: an action over at Hollywood and Highland where we you know,

66
00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,600
Speaker 3: did a sit in at an intersection and it was

67
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,359
Speaker 3: raining like the one rainy day in La and we

68
00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,240
Speaker 3: were there. We were ready to get arrested. We had

69
00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,880
Speaker 3: done a zoom meeting with a lawyer who told us

70
00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,280
Speaker 3: how being arrested, how to get arrested, how to get arrested,

71
00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,440
Speaker 3: which is you know where these are Jewish anti Zionist groups.

72
00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,360
Speaker 3: We of course are going to talk to a lawyer first. Yeah,

73
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,160
Speaker 3: you know, we're very organized with it. But then it

74
00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,480
Speaker 3: just kept raining and raining, and eventually the organizer was like, guys,

75
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,800
Speaker 3: we you know, we're obviously not going to leave until

76
00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,320
Speaker 3: there's a cease fire, but also it's really rainy and

77
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,680
Speaker 3: health is important, and so we're just gonna we're all

78
00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,960
Speaker 3: gonna go home and just dry off and live to

79
00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,240
Speaker 3: fight another day. So yeah, I still count that as

80
00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,240
Speaker 3: getting arrested though, you know, and legally it also counts

81
00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,080
Speaker 3: as being arrested. Yeah, so you know, it's good the

82
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,120
Speaker 3: best of both worlds. I got to be dry in

83
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,000
Speaker 3: my home and now I have to go to court.

84
00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was I was saying that, like, being

85
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,320
Speaker 2: willing to get arrested civil disobedience is amazing, and then

86
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:29,680
Speaker 2: managing to go to a thing where you're going to

87
00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,000
Speaker 2: get arrested and then not getting arrested is actually bonus points, right,

88
00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 2: because then you get to you know, live to fight

89
00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,000
Speaker 2: another day and all right. Yeah, yeah, spend the next

90
00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:40,839
Speaker 2: six months of your life caught up in court, or

91
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,599
Speaker 2: you know, several years of your life caught up.

92
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, and for those who don't know. And I didn't

93
00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,800
Speaker 3: know this beforehand because I'd never been arrested for a

94
00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,679
Speaker 3: civil disobedience before. I have been arrested once in a Bloomingdale's.

95
00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:55,760
Speaker 3: No sorry, it was a Robinson's May for stealing a

96
00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,159
Speaker 3: usc sweater from my friend. And but that was a

97
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,720
Speaker 3: mall cop. But I did get handcuffed, and.

98
00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,440
Speaker 1: You yourself so wonderfully, thank you so much.

99
00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,080
Speaker 3: It was the one. Have you ever been to the

100
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:08,200
Speaker 3: West Side Pavilion, Soldier?

101
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,840
Speaker 1: Have I been to the West Pavilion?

102
00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,280
Speaker 3: Yes? In the before times, when we were young, there

103
00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,159
Speaker 3: was this great mom called the West Side Pavilion. There

104
00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,719
Speaker 3: was a Robinson's May there, and me and my brother

105
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,560
Speaker 3: used to steal a lot. And then it's everywhere, and.

106
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,320
Speaker 1: Then it turned into a mazees and it was gloriously messy,

107
00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,240
Speaker 1: and you can never find anybody to give your money to,

108
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:28,880
Speaker 1: and so people just stole things.

109
00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:33,040
Speaker 3: Yeah and uh, and then one time it's not illegal

110
00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,320
Speaker 3: to steal. No, it's it's not. It's actually redistribution of wealth.

111
00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,280
Speaker 3: And yeah, no, and then we they handcuffed us and

112
00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,240
Speaker 3: took us up. They didn't take us up the elevator

113
00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:48,000
Speaker 3: to the security depot. They took us up three escalators,

114
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:53,280
Speaker 3: no elevator escalators. So we were put oh yeah, publicly humiliated,

115
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,280
Speaker 3: just and we were I was in fifth grit.

116
00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,000
Speaker 2: Now you look cool? Oh okay, yeah, yeah, you look

117
00:05:58,080 --> 00:05:59,960
Speaker 2: cool as hell. You're handcuffed in fifth grint.

118
00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:01,640
Speaker 3: No, I was crying.

119
00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,599
Speaker 1: They could see you from the sabarro. That's amazing.

120
00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, people throwing their hot dog and a stick at me.

121
00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,920
Speaker 3: But no, if you if you get arrested for a

122
00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,800
Speaker 3: civil disobedience I learned is that you basically you have

123
00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,960
Speaker 3: one year in which to not get arrested again. Uh,

124
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,760
Speaker 3: and then your record you know, gets cleared or they

125
00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,200
Speaker 3: won't press chargers. But if you get arrested again, then

126
00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,120
Speaker 3: they can press charges for the previous arrest. And so

127
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,040
Speaker 3: this is a case by case to be clear, Yes, yes,

128
00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,560
Speaker 3: not going very differently for different people at different times.

129
00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:41,000
Speaker 3: It sometimes happens that way, yes, And I to be clear,

130
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,240
Speaker 3: I'm not a lawyer. I'm someone who was once in

131
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,320
Speaker 3: a zoom call with the lawyer. I know a thing

132
00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:46,720
Speaker 3: or two.

133
00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,040
Speaker 2: It's okay. The the political arrests I've had, I refuse

134
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:52,760
Speaker 2: to give my name, as did like one hundred other

135
00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,440
Speaker 2: people each time. Nice and so eventually they just let

136
00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,480
Speaker 2: us out. Although one of the times I got taken

137
00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,400
Speaker 2: to foreign attention because I was in a different country

138
00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:00,960
Speaker 2: and it was actually really shitty.

139
00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,479
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, that sounds that's too brave for me,

140
00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 3: brave for me to be real.

141
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone else is like, yeah, this is so cool,

142
00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,360
Speaker 2: We're so brave, and I'm like, it's cool. I'm not broken.

143
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:15,280
Speaker 2: It's cool.

144
00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,280
Speaker 3: No, I'm not scared. Yeah, I am brave.

145
00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna be in cogniti behavioral therapy ten years

146
00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:23,120
Speaker 2: from now talking about this.

147
00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,640
Speaker 3: This is not trauma, this is normal.

148
00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:26,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

149
00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:32,440
Speaker 2: So okay, we've talked before on this show a little

150
00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,720
Speaker 2: bit about how as long as there's been Zionism, there's

151
00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,960
Speaker 2: been an awful lot of Jews, entire movements of Jews,

152
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,280
Speaker 2: and often at various points of the majority of Jewish

153
00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,200
Speaker 2: people in different areas who are like, no, I'm good,

154
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,480
Speaker 2: I have no interest in Zionism. If you want to

155
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,560
Speaker 2: hear more about it, people can go back and listen

156
00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,400
Speaker 2: to the episode of did with Miriam about the Warsaw

157
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,560
Speaker 2: getto Uprising to talk about some of the different groups

158
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,320
Speaker 2: of Zionists and anti Zionist Jews working in different places

159
00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,800
Speaker 2: in Eastern Europe. And so there's been left wing anti Zionists,

160
00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,119
Speaker 2: there's been secular Jewish anti Zionists. There's been orthodox anti Zionists, yes,

161
00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,400
Speaker 2: and there still are and you'll see all of folks

162
00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,160
Speaker 2: like that at all kinds of demonstrations and things now.

163
00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,640
Speaker 2: And of course there was also a lot of zionistsh

164
00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,760
Speaker 2: as soon as they got to Palestine as part of

165
00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,120
Speaker 2: the Zionist Project, they were like, wait, but there's people here.

166
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:25,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. You guys kind of said something about like empty

167
00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,880
Speaker 3: lots of land. Yeah, there's pictures of someone's family in

168
00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:30,400
Speaker 3: this house.

169
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so there have been people, unfortunately not the

170
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,600
Speaker 2: majority necessarily of the settlers, but a lot of people

171
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,840
Speaker 2: have shown up and have become anti Zionists as a

172
00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,360
Speaker 2: result of seeing what happened with the Zionist project. Other

173
00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,720
Speaker 2: people called it ahead of time, and other people figured

174
00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:45,240
Speaker 2: it out later.

175
00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:46,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

176
00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 2: And so briefly, I'm going to talk about two of

177
00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,200
Speaker 2: those movements, but we're mostly going to talk about stuff

178
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:51,640
Speaker 2: from about twenty years ago or so.

179
00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:52,600
Speaker 4: Okay.

180
00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,480
Speaker 2: One of them is a more philosophical position than a movement.

181
00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,839
Speaker 2: One is a Yiddish word, it's doykite. Which means hereness,

182
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,200
Speaker 2: kite being a suffix that means nis in Yiddish, so

183
00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:10,400
Speaker 2: like Yiddish kite means jewishness. This is the extent of

184
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:15,839
Speaker 2: my Yiddish knowledge. Unfortunately, DUEI kite is basically where I am,

185
00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,680
Speaker 2: is my home, And this was a major part of

186
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:25,960
Speaker 2: a lot of anti zion Is Jewish organizing one hundred years. Basically,

187
00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,320
Speaker 2: the main argument in the late nineteenth and early twentieth

188
00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,439
Speaker 2: century was between Jews who were like, we got to

189
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,080
Speaker 2: go back to Israel and others were like, honestly, Jewish

190
00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,160
Speaker 2: culture is as much created by the diaspora as anything else.

191
00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,120
Speaker 2: This is just as legitimate, and we belong wherever we are,

192
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,679
Speaker 2: which conveniently also at all other things aside means not

193
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,959
Speaker 2: creating a settler colonial state. So that one I was

194
00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:46,720
Speaker 2: like a little bit.

195
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,440
Speaker 3: Of a moral advantage, right yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

196
00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,200
Speaker 3: Well one is clearly more moral and ethical than the other.

197
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, A slogan I can date back at least to

198
00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:02,240
Speaker 2: nineteen eighteen translates to wherever we live, that's homeland. A

199
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,040
Speaker 2: lot but not all of the diasporists were leftists communists

200
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,839
Speaker 2: like they were leftists, they were communist socialists and anarchists.

201
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,720
Speaker 2: The Jewish Labor Bund was a formation that existed a

202
00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,720
Speaker 2: bunch of places. Basically that was leftist Jews fighting for

203
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,040
Speaker 2: the right to organize as Jews within larger political structures.

204
00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,240
Speaker 2: And they're really interesting and we've talked about them before

205
00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,200
Speaker 2: on the show. We'll talk about them more later. I

206
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 2: actually thought that this week was going to be like

207
00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,800
Speaker 2: one half was going to be like nineteen hundred and

208
00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,040
Speaker 2: one half, it was going to be like the year

209
00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 2: two thousand, and then it turns out it's all the

210
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:34,800
Speaker 2: year two thousand, I mean, be talking about or like,

211
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 2: because there's so much. Yeah, and one thing that happened

212
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,280
Speaker 2: to the historical Bundists, unfortunately, is that they they tended

213
00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,400
Speaker 2: to stay and fight since that was kind of their thing, right. Yeah,

214
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,920
Speaker 2: an awful fucking lot of them died in World War Two.

215
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:51,240
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.

216
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:51,920
Speaker 3: See.

217
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:57,800
Speaker 2: Also, well every aspect of Jewishness and also leftism in

218
00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,880
Speaker 2: Europe more broadly. Yeah, there's a newer word that folks

219
00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,439
Speaker 2: are using called diasporism. This was coined by author Melanie K.

220
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,360
Speaker 2: Kantrowitz in her two thousand and seven book The Colors

221
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,400
Speaker 2: of Jews, and this book is mentioned as the foundation

222
00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,760
Speaker 2: to it. She says that diasporism is quote it quote

223
00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,280
Speaker 2: embraces diaspora, offers a place we might join with others

224
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,199
Speaker 2: who value this history of dispersion, others who stand in

225
00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,120
Speaker 2: opposition to nationalism and the nation state, who choose instead

226
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:32,520
Speaker 2: to value border crossing. And so this is not the

227
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,079
Speaker 2: only name that people will use now. But I was

228
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:36,960
Speaker 2: looking into these names because like a lot of people

229
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,000
Speaker 2: are like, I'm an anti Zionist Jew, or other people

230
00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:40,959
Speaker 2: will be like, I'm a non Zionist Jew. And then

231
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:42,800
Speaker 2: other people have been looking for like ways of being

232
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,840
Speaker 2: like what's our what's our like positive thing that we're saying.

233
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,040
Speaker 3: Right right, right, yeah, how do we do something that's

234
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,679
Speaker 3: not immediately anti something else?

235
00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,959
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, totally, And some things are just worth being

236
00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,920
Speaker 2: anti and then you know, sure.

237
00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah yeah.

238
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,640
Speaker 2: So more and more Jewish people now are breaking free

239
00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:04,720
Speaker 2: from the narrative that's taught that was taught to them

240
00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,960
Speaker 2: through their religious education. And what's really interesting to note

241
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,600
Speaker 2: about this is that for a lot of people, at

242
00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,120
Speaker 2: least a lot of the people that I was reading,

243
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,880
Speaker 2: this is not a break from religion or tradition. I

244
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,600
Speaker 2: spent a while reading all these narratives of different diasporists,

245
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 2: and a lot of them talk about how it meant

246
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,560
Speaker 2: literally just skipping a generation and talking to their grandparents

247
00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,640
Speaker 2: instead of their parents.

248
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. I mean it is it's

249
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,959
Speaker 3: it's not a break religiously, it's not even much of

250
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:39,360
Speaker 3: a break culturally, you know, because the cultural aspects of

251
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:44,960
Speaker 3: Zionism kind of extend to a couple of songs here

252
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,000
Speaker 3: and there. Obviously Israeli flags and you know, shul and

253
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,559
Speaker 3: and your temple, even your reform temples, you know, have them,

254
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:57,320
Speaker 3: your synagogue, But you know, it's more about kind of

255
00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:02,720
Speaker 3: a a ret conning of the religion and the culture

256
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,040
Speaker 3: in order to fit as Zionis narrative. So it's kind

257
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:11,160
Speaker 3: of just about brushing away some of those Zionis cobwebs

258
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:12,640
Speaker 3: that have showed up.

259
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that makes sense to me. I think people

260
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,200
Speaker 2: who listen to this know that I'm not Jewish, but

261
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,920
Speaker 2: I spend a lot of my time learning about this

262
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:28,160
Speaker 2: particular thing. And yeah, so the left in Israel is

263
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:33,000
Speaker 2: a mess to Israeli author Uri Gordon wrote in twenty

264
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,560
Speaker 2: twelve of the left in Israel, what is important to

265
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,640
Speaker 2: understand is that in Israel today, any association with the

266
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,040
Speaker 2: term left is by itself enough to brand one is

267
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,920
Speaker 2: disloyal and outside the mainstream consensus. Israeli society is becoming

268
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,120
Speaker 2: increasingly entrenched in its siege mentality, viewing international censer of

269
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,520
Speaker 2: the occupation of Palestine as a threat to the very

270
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,920
Speaker 2: existence of the Jewish people. In such a context of

271
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,840
Speaker 2: collective hysteria, aligning oneself explicitly with the left is tantamount,

272
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,559
Speaker 2: in the eyes of many Israelis, to consorting with the enemy. Yeah,

273
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,120
Speaker 2: and this gets that what you were just saying, No,

274
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:09,800
Speaker 2: go sorry, no, I.

275
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,240
Speaker 3: Mean, yeah, it is Listen, I'm not I am not Israeli.

276
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:19,360
Speaker 3: And so my knowledge of the dynamics within Israel obviously

277
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,560
Speaker 3: are based on hearsay from Israeli friends. I have anti

278
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:28,880
Speaker 3: Zionist Israeli friends and just regular ass Israeli friends and

279
00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,000
Speaker 3: from reading. So I can't claim to know what it's

280
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,400
Speaker 3: like to be a leftist in Israel. But yeah, essentially,

281
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:42,000
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's already a stigma, like you'll see

282
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,400
Speaker 3: it a lot in kind of the uh, the way

283
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:51,280
Speaker 3: that you know, the news media in Israel talks about

284
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,760
Speaker 3: a lot of the hostages who are taken on the seventh.

285
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,080
Speaker 3: You know, if there is you know, any kind of

286
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,000
Speaker 3: video of you know, like the woman who shook Hamas

287
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,520
Speaker 3: is one of the Hamas soldiers hands and whatnot, you'll

288
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 3: see them disregarded. Oh well, they're a leftist, and it's

289
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,239
Speaker 3: just automatically assumed, like oh, okay, so they're a trader anyways,

290
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:18,880
Speaker 3: so of course they're gonna, you know, participate in Palestinian propaganda.

291
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,200
Speaker 3: So yeah, it is a dirty, dirty word.

292
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,520
Speaker 2: Which is interesting in particular because Hamas is not a

293
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:24,480
Speaker 2: leftist organization.

294
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 3: No, it's absolutely not.

295
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:31,920
Speaker 2: It replaced the leftist organization theo is. Yeah, the idea

296
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,480
Speaker 2: that like, well, of course the leftists are all Islamisists

297
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:34,960
Speaker 2: or whatever.

298
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:39,160
Speaker 3: It's like yeah, no, yeah, no, I mean people in

299
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,880
Speaker 3: terms of left and right when it comes to everything

300
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 3: that gets funneled into America, in terms of the way

301
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 3: we look at left and right. It is very funny

302
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,480
Speaker 3: to see how many people think that, like, oh, you know,

303
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,800
Speaker 3: leftism is when you are an Islamic religious fundamentalist. Just like,

304
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,680
Speaker 3: what the fuck are you talking about? Yeah, yeah it is.

305
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 3: We just like to we like to throw terms around

306
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:04,120
Speaker 3: for no reason.

307
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, but despite this attempt, And it's funny to read

308
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,840
Speaker 2: that quote from twenty twelve because it's like, oh, shit's

309
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:11,640
Speaker 2: gotten so much.

310
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 3: Worse since then, so much worse.

311
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,720
Speaker 2: Yes, And you know, this is the we're talking about

312
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:18,920
Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff we're talking about is sort

313
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 2: of the thing that kind of tried to head off

314
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,880
Speaker 2: where where Israel has gone since. Yes, but today we're

315
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:28,480
Speaker 2: going to talk about some of the people from Israel

316
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,680
Speaker 2: and elsewhere who have worked in solidarity with the movement

317
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,520
Speaker 2: for a Free Palestine. And we're talking about them not

318
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,840
Speaker 2: because they're like more noble or more important than Palestinian people,

319
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,920
Speaker 2: but because, like, I think that showing people breaking the

320
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,200
Speaker 2: media consensus or like the breaking the media narrative, I

321
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:44,520
Speaker 2: think is a very useful thing to do.

322
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,920
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. Yeah, And you know, I think there

323
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,920
Speaker 3: is kind of a general thought about leftism and the

324
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,600
Speaker 3: Israeli left as like being nonexistent, which is like, is

325
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,200
Speaker 3: a little too I don't know what the word is,

326
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:05,280
Speaker 3: like clib It's like it's it's reductive because it is,

327
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,800
Speaker 3: the Israeli left is not non existent. It's there is

328
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:14,040
Speaker 3: not zero resistance. There's a pretty wide ranging history of

329
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,600
Speaker 3: leftism in Israel. It's just that it's it's grown weaker

330
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,560
Speaker 3: and weaker and weaker and more and more marginalized. And

331
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,679
Speaker 3: of course, you know, in our current times it is

332
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,480
Speaker 3: it's almost not even acknowledged because of the fact that

333
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,639
Speaker 3: you know, you've got an event like the Seventh and

334
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,960
Speaker 3: then you've got patriotism takes over.

335
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:40,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, and the comparisons to okay, topic, Yeah, that's

336
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:41,480
Speaker 2: what I was gonna say.

337
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, we'll get in there.

338
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,159
Speaker 2: Yeah. So at some point we're going to go further

339
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,280
Speaker 2: back into history of the area. And we talked some

340
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,800
Speaker 2: of this on our episode about hunger strikes with Sharene,

341
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,160
Speaker 2: So if you want to hear about some of that stuff,

342
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:54,480
Speaker 2: you can go back and listen to the hunger strikes

343
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,000
Speaker 2: episodes pretty recent and but for now, I think that

344
00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,639
Speaker 2: a lot of what we want to be talking about

345
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,240
Speaker 2: star with the Second Intifada at the turn of the millennium.

346
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,159
Speaker 2: But since this is cool, people did cool stuff, and

347
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,719
Speaker 2: I didn't allow myself to go back to the year

348
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,480
Speaker 2: nineteen hundred despite well, I mentioned the bond, but yeah,

349
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,800
Speaker 2: in order to talk about the Second Intifada, I'm gonna

350
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,160
Speaker 2: talk about the first intifada. Hell yeah, which is these

351
00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 2: sick deal Wait, no, no, I probably shouldn't do that

352
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 2: as my transition. Well I have to do an ad

353
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 2: transition anyway. But here's some stuff you can buy that's

354
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,240
Speaker 2: totally not related to any of this, and I don't

355
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:33,639
Speaker 2: tell you inherently support.

356
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,200
Speaker 3: And we're back back.

357
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:42,560
Speaker 2: So we're gonna go to the late eighties to the

358
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,640
Speaker 2: first antifada. Antifada means shaking off in Arabic. It's one

359
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,080
Speaker 2: of those words that like sounds super scary or whatever.

360
00:18:50,560 --> 00:19:01,399
Speaker 3: Like modern America, every Arab word sounds scary. Everything terrifies people. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

361
00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:06,439
Speaker 3: Wait till people found out about algebra or that.

362
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,920
Speaker 2: In Arabic, Christian used the word allah because it means god. Right, yeah,

363
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,000
Speaker 2: it's not a different god. Yeah right, it's just the

364
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 2: word for it. People are We're not a smart country, No,

365
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,720
Speaker 2: we are not. So the defense minister of Israel, he'll

366
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,440
Speaker 2: come up later, was this guy, Yitzakrabin, and he had

367
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:30,720
Speaker 2: an iron fist policy of fighting Palestinian nationalism, which never

368
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 2: makes anyone happy when the stated thing is called iron fist.

369
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's already that hostile.

370
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this involved deporting a fuck ton of people

371
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 2: and increasing the settlements. Israel Is basically trying to annex

372
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 2: all Palestine, Lots of Palestinians getting murdered all the time.

373
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,320
Speaker 2: And then on December ninth, nineteen eighty seven, an idf

374
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 2: armored truck, the Israeli Defense Force armored truck, crashed into

375
00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,479
Speaker 2: a civilian car, killing four Palestinians in front of hundreds

376
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 2: of witnesses. And Palestinian folks were like, hey, that seemed

377
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 2: like maybe it was on purpose that you drove this

378
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 2: giant military vehicle into this, and the idea of was like, no, no,

379
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 2: totally wasn't sure. And anyone who's alive right now and

380
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 2: has any basic modicum of media literacy understands that the

381
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,240
Speaker 2: Israeli government lies to their fucking teeth, right.

382
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:27,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's pretty much you throw a stone at

383
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 3: any you know, Israeli news headline and you'll you'll hit

384
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 3: a lie. It's yeah, that's what they do mean, is

385
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 3: really news headline throwing a stone? Yeah, that's right. Throwing

386
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,399
Speaker 3: a stone is a great example something that's going to

387
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:48,640
Speaker 3: get me put in administrative detention. But no, like it's

388
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 3: not unique to absolutely not to Israel to be a

389
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 3: to do heavy state propaganda and lie about what their

390
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,880
Speaker 3: military does. But it is also important point out that,

391
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 3: you know, taking the the the line of you know,

392
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 3: the standard line that the IDF puts out as foolish

393
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 3: as you know, doing the same thing in America. It's

394
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 3: trust in governments or the police, I was going to say,

395
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,120
Speaker 3: or trusting the cops, you know, and they're it's uh no,

396
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 3: they lie. They lie all the time, pretty much every time.

397
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and every side of the struggles that we're

398
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 2: going to be talking about is also lying or is

399
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 2: often lying. But the Israeli government just like going above

400
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 2: and beyond, you know, they're they're the gold medallists here.

401
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah, they really got a lot of practice.

402
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,919
Speaker 2: In Yeah, they they're like Americans that way. M Palestinian

403
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 2: folks were really fucking mad about this for some odd reason,

404
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 2: maybe it was all the other recent extra judicial murders

405
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 2: that the IDEF had been doing. So the next day,

406
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 2: someone threw a molotov at a passing IDF patrol car.

407
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 2: The IDEF opened fire on the angry crowd and killed

408
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 2: one person, a seventeen year old who they say was

409
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,239
Speaker 2: the person who through the Maltava maybe I don't know,

410
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 2: and wounded sixteen other people and so shit was on.

411
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and before people, you know, I don't know, if

412
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 3: you probably don't have listeners who sit here and go

413
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 3: not ah, but in case you do, before people think like, oh, well,

414
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 3: this is obviously you know, PLO plot in order to

415
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 3: you know, do all this. This caught the PLO completely off. Yeah,

416
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 3: this was a completely organic uprising, and in fact, the

417
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 3: you know, the PLO was like, ah, shit, how do

418
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 3: we how do we get for this? Yeah exactly, Yeah,

419
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 3: how do we get some control of this? And well,

420
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 3: I mean, I assume we'll find out later that did

421
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 3: not end up being totally a good thing.

422
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 2: No, but I'll Actually, I think that you might be

423
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 2: able to fill in some of the gaps of when

424
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 2: I was of the research I was doing about this,

425
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 2: because some of it is about the PLO's attempt to

426
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 2: try to direct some of the first antifada, but I

427
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: think it's also where noting just semantically, because I think

428
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 2: it's fun pointing out that at the time, no one

429
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 2: was walking around being like, oh, this is the first

430
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 2: empty fada.

431
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Hey, guys, we're gonna

432
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 3: do the first one we're gonna do yeah, or even

433
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 3: just get like, hey, guys, you know, get up, we're

434
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 3: doing the Intifada. It was it was not it was organic.

435
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 3: It was the straw that broke the camel's back. Is

436
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 3: when the idea of you know, plowed into those people

437
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 3: and uh, and it just went off as most you know,

438
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 3: I think.

439
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 2: Uprising sunprisons are yeah, are they?

440
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 3: You know, it's there's always a group of revolutionaries out

441
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 3: there somewhere who are in a cafe and go, oh fuck,

442
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:40,959
Speaker 3: they're rising up.

443
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 2: But we didn't shit, but we're the vanguard.

444
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're the vanguard. What the hell? Why'd I print

445
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 3: these shirts?

446
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, you know, and then they run the catch

447
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 2: up and like sometimes they do really good work when

448
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 2: they run and catch up, and other times they try.

449
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 3: To fuck it up. Yeah.

450
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,719
Speaker 2: And so this uprising, which I hope i'll talk more

451
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: about some of the time, but we'll talk about a bit.

452
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 2: It lasts until nineteen ninety three. More than eighty thousand

453
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 2: Israeli soldiers were deployed into the area that they occupied.

454
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 2: Over the course of the top that whole those years,

455
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 2: around sixteen hundred Palestinians were killed by Israeli forces, and

456
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 2: around two hundred Israelis were killed by Palestinians. Yeah, overall,

457
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 2: the Antifada was not the first. Antifada, was not a

458
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 2: militaristic movement, and it was not one that aimed to

459
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 2: use lethal force. Yeah, relatively peaceful actually.

460
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

461
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 2: There were roughly three power players that I've been able

462
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 2: to locate, organizationally speaking, in Palestina at that point. The

463
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 2: most prominent is the PLO, the Palestinian Liberation Organization, which

464
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 2: is a coalition of different communists and social democratic organizations.

465
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 2: Fatah is the most prominent among them, with Yaser Arafat

466
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 2: being the main guy. And I grew up in the nineties,

467
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 2: so I didn't know who he was, but his name

468
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 2: was everywhere, you know.

469
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

470
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 2: Then there's the Islamic organizations, and at the time, I

471
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 2: believe this was mostly the group Islamic Jihad, but shortly

472
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 2: after the Antipada kicked up, a little known group called

473
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 2: Hamas was formed. Then there's a third type of organization

474
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 2: that was actually the organization that largely coordinated the Antifada,

475
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 2: which was community councils. And as you mentioned, the Antipada

476
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 2: start off as a spontaneous uprising, and then these other

477
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 2: groups get their shit together and they form the Unified

478
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 2: National Leadership of the Uprising, the UNLU, which did all

479
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 2: kinds of interesting shit. They led grassroots to mutual aid

480
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: projects and kind of basically it's like, while the Marxists

481
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 2: and the Islamists are arguing about who should be in charge,

482
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 2: the people were like, well, we're in charge.

483
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 3: We're just going to do this.

484
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 2: It was not a central vanguard the UNLU. It was

485
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: neighborhood committees, and they pushed for people to stop paying

486
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 2: access to Israel. They literally referred to this as no

487
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 2: taxation without representation, which is you know, obviously that wild.

488
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 3: If that sounds familiar, yeah, there's a reason.

489
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's where the phrase comes from. And

490
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 2: they also boycott at Israeli goods and started growing more

491
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: and more of their own food. Originally, at least the

492
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 2: parts led by the UNLU intended to refrain from lethal violence.

493
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 2: This was not a moral stance. They didn't feel that

494
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 2: it would be a moral for them to defend themselves

495
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 2: with lethal force, but it was a strategic one. They

496
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 2: were like, look, we'll get crushed.

497
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 3: We can't.

498
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: Shoot to death the modern militarized army of Israel. Yes,

499
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 2: the PLO tended to agree, and for the first year

500
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: Hamas and Islamic Jihad also agreed. Women led at every

501
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 2: level of the First Intifat. I read this whole long

502
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 2: article about this. It's pretty interesting, partly because before it

503
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 2: so many of the men who were leaders in their

504
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 2: community who were dead or imprisoned or locked up. And

505
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 2: since everyone involved, including Israel, is a very patriarchal society,

506
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 2: they didn't notice that women lead things.

507
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

508
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 2: Every major faction had a women's committee, and since all

509
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: the organizing was illegal, they all met as like knitting

510
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 2: circles and like cooking groups and shit, which fucking rules.

511
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: That is great, and they weren't really suspected because of patriarchy. Yeah,

512
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,199
Speaker 2: the whole thing, due to repression, the whole UNLU. I'm

513
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 2: avoiding saying it because it's tongue twister.

514
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 3: To me, I have no idea.

515
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 2: It's a tongue twister. It went underground all along. Israel's

516
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 2: kind of murdering the shit out of everyone. They're collective

517
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 2: punishing the shit out of everyone. The UN of course,

518
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 2: comes in and it's like, hey, Israel, cut it out,

519
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 2: you're being bad. And Israel's like no, it's fine.

520
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, They're like no, yeah, bugs, bunny meme.

521
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, no, yeah, exactly, this is going to come up.

522
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 2: This It would be shocking to the modern audience because

523
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: now everyone obeys international law, especially Israel. Right and overall,

524
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: the PLO and a lot of other folks generally wanted

525
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: what was called the one state solution in the nineteen eighties,

526
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 2: and specifically they were fighting for a singular, secular state

527
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 2: for Jews and Arabs alike, a democratic society, right right.

528
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 2: When people say one state solution, they either mean this

529
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: good nice thing, or they like mean a secular democratics like,

530
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 2: they mean the either the version that doesn't have two

531
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 2: sets of laws for two different ethnic groups, right right, right,

532
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 2: or they mean an apartheid state. Yes, yeah, this is

533
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: this is the issue with the you know, talks of

534
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: one state solution, is that or they will assume you

535
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 2: mean if they're you know, Zion is taking you in

536
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 2: bad faith, they will assume you mean a all Arab

537
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: Palestinian state in which the Jews have been driven into

538
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 2: the sea, which is not what the one state solution means.

539
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 2: Despite the Twitter accounts you can point at and go,

540
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: but this one said I should move back to Poland

541
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, some asshole on Twitter is always going

542
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 2: to say something stupid.

543
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

544
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And so the one state solution was overall the

545
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: vibe until and the Twesday solution first, or I got

546
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 2: to tell my in the early eighties. But the thing

547
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: that at least that I was reading talks about really

548
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 2: picking up during the first Antifada and the Twoesday solution

549
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 2: was a compromise, right, it was a fine Israel, you

550
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: get all the shit you had before nineteen sixty seven,

551
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 2: which is an awful lot, seventy eight percent of right

552
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 2: what used to be Palestine, and then each country is independent.

553
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: And this could be called the no one is happy solution, right, yeah,

554
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 2: because at least currently a majority of the Palestinians in Israel,

555
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: Israelis reject the two state solution, even though it's most

556
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: what most political groups are claiming they're pushing for. I

557
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 2: think Israel is very clearly pushing for the one apartheid

558
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: state solution.

559
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 3: Rights, that's what they want, But the two state solution

560
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 3: is just I mean, it's considered in at least in America,

561
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 3: the standard liberal kind of safe. You know, this is

562
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 3: my way of saying I want peace is you know,

563
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 3: I want a two state solution, which I understand. I

564
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 3: mean I used to be that way too sure. I

565
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 3: used to be like, yeah, two states, that makes sense.

566
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 3: And then I realized that there's still that problem of

567
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 3: the ethnic demographics in Israel. Yeah, have to be held

568
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 3: at a certain level of Jews and Arabs and then

569
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 3: you and if they're not, you've got a something weird

570
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 3: gonna happen.

571
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 2: So we'll go on yeah, no, and we'll get to that.

572
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

573
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 2: So this uprising it worked. I mean, it didn't solve

574
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 2: the problem, right, but it forced international attention and it

575
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: got people involved in the peace process, and it is

576
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: why people sat down to the table and started looking

577
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: to negotiate.

578
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

579
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: So, in nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety five, Israel

580
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 2: and the PLO signed some peace accords called the Oslo

581
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: Accords because they were signed in Oslo. Again, accords not

582
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 2: usually very interestingly named.

583
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

584
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: This created the Palestinian National Authority. It gave Palestinians a

585
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 2: limited authority over the Palestinian territory. And this was supposed

586
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: to be temporary. It was a five year temporary thing,

587
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 2: at the end of which, in the year two thousand,

588
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,239
Speaker 2: the Palestine In state was going to be created. And

589
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 2: this involved signing. This accord involved the PLO acknowledging the

590
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: state of Israel, which is a pretty major compromise when

591
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 2: someone comes into your house and takes three quarters of it.

592
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 3: No, yeah, and you're also agreeing to you know, this

593
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 3: kind of like nebulous possibility of continued settlement and restriction

594
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 3: and you're still agreeing to it on good faith in

595
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 3: the hopes that you can come to a compromise later

596
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 3: like huge, huge.

597
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 2: And so the it which is worth pointing out because

598
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: the world in the nineties and it's still the media line,

599
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 2: especially the Israeli media line, but people don't tend to

600
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 2: believe it anymore, which is great. People still view the

601
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: Palestinians as the people who refuse to compromise and the

602
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: reason that this fell apart. But I'm gonna I knew

603
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 2: some of this, but reading the rest of it, I

604
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: didn't think I could get angrier about what's happening right now.

605
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that's where that's your first mistake. You

606
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 3: can always get more incensed.

607
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so the PLO acknowledged the state of Israel,

608
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 2: which is a major compromise. It rescinded that recognition in

609
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 2: the year twenty eighteen. Basically it was like, we will

610
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 2: recognize you when you go back to recognizing us. That

611
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: was the whole point, you know, And so sixteen is like, ah,

612
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 2: they don't recognize as well anyway, whatever. Yes, the creation

613
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: of Palestinian Authority was a huge blow to all the

614
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 2: grassroots organizing and the women's organizing. Under the Palestinian Authority,

615
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 2: women required a guardian to apply for a passport for example.

616
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 2: Right this is there was There was some not good

617
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,719
Speaker 2: stuff about them. Yes, the Oslo Accords made no one happy.

618
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 2: The militant Palestinian organizations considered it to be an unacceptable surrender.

619
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: Right wing Israelis were like, this is when bullshit's sell

620
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: out nonsense. And I guess if it actually worked in

621
00:33:58,280 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 2: the end, maybe people will be singing a different team.

622
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: But it did as far as I can tell, the

623
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 2: introduction of the Tuesday solution of the Oslo Accords were

624
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 2: a victory for one interested party, and that party was

625
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: capitalism and US interests. Yep, Because the guy who signed

626
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 2: for Israel Yet, Zakrabin, he is now the prime Minister.

627
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 3: He's moved up in the world. He's no longer just

628
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 3: the Minister of Defense. He's no longer just the iron

629
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 3: fist guy exactly. Now, no longer just breaking bones. Now

630
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 3: he's shaking hands.

631
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the prime Minister has more power in Israel

632
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 2: than the president does.

633
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 3: Basically.

634
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the privatization guy. He is the like, sell

635
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 2: off everything to multinational corporations guy. He is the bringing

636
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 2: for an investment guy. And he's a big part of

637
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 2: moving Israel away from the socialized economy that it kind

638
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 2: of started with because, for better or worse, Israel started

639
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: off like mostly by the leftist Zionists. Yeah, yeah, and

640
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 2: he moved into a privatized economy. And just think for

641
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 2: a minute about how even messier politics and discourse on

642
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: Twitter would be if Israel was still the leftist Zionist

643
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: state and doing all the same shit, because they would

644
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 2: be doing the same shit, but.

645
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 3: Right, right, but they would be I mean, you know,

646
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 3: their version of that, of course, is just doing neoliberal

647
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 3: identity politics and economics intertwined. You know that it's still

648
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 3: messy now because they will you know, fly gay flag

649
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 3: and Gaza and say, see, we're good, but it would

650
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 3: be even worse and messy if they were fucking hammer

651
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 3: and sickle leftists. And yeah, just like Tanky Twitter is

652
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 3: just like Zionists. All of a sudden, you're like, god,

653
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 3: fucking damn it.

654
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Fortunately Israel totally that respector of gay rights, where

655
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,280
Speaker 2: gay people can totally get married.

656
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 3: Just kidding they hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, look into that.

657
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 3: By the way, you know marriage Israel or hetero sexual

658
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 3: interfaith marriage. Yes, it's real goal, yes, yes, yes.

659
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: But Rabin he's really into bringing in foreign investment, privatizing

660
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 2: the shit out of everything, and he is seen as

661
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 2: a champion of peace for fighting for the peace process.

662
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 2: He also and I know people can change their tune,

663
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: but I think it's worth pointing out he served as

664
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 2: a commander during the Knakma of nineteen forty eight and

665
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 2: once signed in order to expel people from their home

666
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 2: so that Israelis could come in and steal people's homes.

667
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 2: So he signed the accords, which pissed off the right

668
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 2: wing so much that this far right guy yglamr he

669
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 2: was like, you know what, I should murder the Prime minister.

670
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 2: So he listened to Matt Leaps podcast I'm Just Gone.

671
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 3: He learned how to make the shinzo abbe gone.

672
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then he so that part isn't true, but

673
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 2: the rest of it is true. He murdered the prime minister.

674
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 3: Yes, yes he did. And you know, it was at

675
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 3: a time when the politics on the in the right,

676
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 3: i mean in Israel, on the right were doing some

677
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: stuff you might look at as familiar for right wing

678
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 3: politics in America. A lot of you know, targets superimposed

679
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 3: over the face of being, you know, in posters and stuff.

680
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 2: Like being like, we're going to kill this guy, and

681
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 2: then they do, We're going.

682
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 3: To kill this guy stuff, and then they actually did it.

683
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 3: And the person that you know, I mean, I'm sure

684
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 3: you'll get to this, a person who was one of

685
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 3: the biggest cheerleaders of going against the Oslo Accords and

686
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 3: was running for Prime minister bib and yahoo.

687
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you make of the conspiracy

688
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 2: theory that says that shin Bet the sort of FBI

689
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 2: of Israel knew about the assassination, didn't do anything.

690
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 3: Have you heard this?

691
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 4: I have.

692
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 3: I'm I'm always I lean against most conspirats. Yeah, it's

693
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 3: so hard when it comes to Israel because they they

694
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 3: are like that, you know, and and so is the

695
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 3: United States. And I still even you know, in US

696
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 3: conspiracy theories, you know, I'm still like, I'm willing to

697
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 3: entertain them, but I'm not you know, I don't put

698
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 3: much stock into them because I don't think you need

699
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 3: shin Bet to actually like not do something for this

700
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 3: to have happened, like they maybe they could have stopped it,

701
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 3: maybe they couldn't have It's I don't know, I don't know.

702
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 3: I don't know these things. I always just I look

703
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 3: at them and I go, ah, it's possible. I don't know.

704
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 3: I need to have some faith in the world. Yeah,

705
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 3: I can't just be thinking everything's conspiracy.

706
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,399
Speaker 2: No, no, no, that that makes sense to me, because

707
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 2: it also like it doesn't in my mind. It kind

708
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: of doesn't matter in the end, you know, Like exactly

709
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: the basis of it is that one of you Gall's

710
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 2: best friends in the right wing movement was an undercover informant,

711
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 2: and basically the Israeli government was like, well, yeah, but

712
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: he didn't know about the assassination attempt, and like, uh, okay, yeah,

713
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,720
Speaker 2: that seems possible. He might not have been like sitting

714
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 2: around with hanging out with his friends, being like, you.

715
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 3: Know, I'm gonna do tomorrow.

716
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 2: I'm an assassinated guy.

717
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 3: I'm gonna kill him.

718
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 4: Yeah.

719
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 3: No, But in Israel, it is a very popular conspiracy

720
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 3: theory and a lot of people on the right end

721
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 3: the left, you know, it's it's pretty mainstream. It's their

722
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 3: Kennedy assassination.

723
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense.

724
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 3: It's a lot of people think that that was the

725
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 3: case at the very at the very least, that you know,

726
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,959
Speaker 3: they could have stopped it and didn't. And then there's

727
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 3: people think it was just straight up you know, a

728
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 3: political assassination done by the actual sinebit.

729
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

730
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 2: But fortunately with the centrist capitalists sort of peace loving

731
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 2: president freshly dead obviously all of Israel rallied around him

732
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 2: as a martyr and pushed for the two state solution

733
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 2: to crack down on right wing extremism. Or or he

734
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 2: was replaced by Benjamin.

735
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 3: Not Yeah, at the head of a right wing coalition.

736
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're still dealing with today, who cranked up all

737
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 2: the illegal settlements.

738
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yep, it was.

739
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: And so the left becomes further and further isolated from

740
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 2: the left. The rest of Israeli society around this point.

741
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 2: And one thing that I read was that it it

742
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 2: was actually the failure of the Oslo Accords that pushed

743
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: the Israeli Zionis Left towards becoming the Israeli anti Zionis left,

744
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 2: basically being like, oh, we thought we were going to

745
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 2: actually not be occupiers. We thought we had a way

746
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 2: out of that where we could have our two states

747
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 2: and settle down and hang out in peace. But that

748
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 2: didn't happen. Yeah, and so the Zionist project has fewer

749
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 2: and fewer excuses left at this point, besides, of course

750
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 2: their motto, which is we're winning, so fuck you.

751
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 4: Yeah.

752
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 2: And you know how you can be a winner, Matt

753
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 2: leaps now by if you sign up for Cooler Zone media,

754
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 2: you don't have to listen to these ads. You only

755
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 2: have to listen to the Truians.

756
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh man, dude, that's the best of both worlds,

757
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 3: where you get the perfect transitions into the ads. I

758
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 3: think we can all agree absolutely nothing more perfect than

759
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,720
Speaker 3: a cool Zone media and transition but without actually having

760
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 3: to listen about you know, fertilizers or whatever whatever your

761
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 3: programmatic ads are trying to sell.

762
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 2: Here's those programmatic ads that you totally can just press

763
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 2: forward fifteen, can spout four times music again, but don't Yeah,

764
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 2: and we're back, so you go a mirror. He's still

765
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 2: in prison. He's a political cause for the right wing.

766
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 2: Probably the only reason is still in prison is that

767
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 2: the legislature had to pass a specific law that says

768
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 2: whoever is president is not allowed to pardon this specific guy. Yeah,

769
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 2: which is a kind of impressive, like fuck this guy,

770
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 2: but that is an impressive feat.

771
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 3: And it's also it says a lot about the state

772
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 3: of Israeli politics that you have to pass that law.

773
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 3: That's true, that you have to pass a law, and

774
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 3: it's like this is the one murderer. We can't let

775
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 3: it out. Yeah, Like it is quite wild. It's quite wild. Indeed,

776
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 3: because they knew, they were like, oh he's good because

777
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 3: you know, you go is not unpopular in a lot

778
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 3: of Israel. He's actually quite quite popular, quite uh praised

779
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 3: for what he did. Ye great and to this day

780
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:15,720
Speaker 3: is still proud of it. Yeah.

781
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 2: And his brother who was one of the conspirators, like

782
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 2: actual conspirator, not conspiracy theory conspirator, but like nor planning

783
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,399
Speaker 2: and went to prison for it. And was like, yeah,

784
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 2: I was part of the planning. And then he's now

785
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 2: out of prison and he's campaigning for his brothers.

786
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean now's the time. That's true. Yeah,

787
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 3: So the Oslo Accords they didn't work. The final nail

788
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 3: in that coffin was the two thousand Camp David Summit

789
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 3: at Camp David, Maryland, which goes into the theory that

790
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 3: nothing good happens in Maryland.

791
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 4: That's right.

792
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,919
Speaker 2: I don't know why for the Wireland, that's true.

793
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 3: The Wire is good. Baltimore.

794
00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 2: Baltimore is like not by this sag.

795
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

796
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 4: Yeah.

797
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 2: So if you're listening and you're in Maryland, if you're

798
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 2: in Baltimore, it's okay.

799
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you're in.

800
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: Baltimore, it's all listen to the Wire podcast.

801
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 3: And listen to The Wire yourself, the Wire yourself, well,

802
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 3: pod yourself a gun.

803
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 2: Okay. I've never I've never seen more than like four

804
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 2: or five episodes of the Wire. So this is why

805
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 2: I haven't listened to your podcast. Do I how does

806
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 2: this work? Do you do? You watch the whole thing.

807
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: You watch the Wire and then do it at this

808
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: but you could do either at.

809
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 2: The same time, Like, how does this how do you

810
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 2: recommend a new wire.

811
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 3: I recommend people just jump into it, even if they

812
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 3: have never seen a single episode, because it is asking

813
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 3: a lot for someone to watch an entire TV show.

814
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 3: But if you must, you can always you know, binge

815
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 3: it like, start watching some episodes and then you know,

816
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 3: if you want to, you can watch an episode, listen

817
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 3: to episode, watch an episode, listener episode. We do every

818
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 3: episode and it is it's it's it's a lot of fun.

819
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 3: And you know, even for people who don't like tv rewatch.

820
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 3: You know, I've heard people say it's it's more than

821
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 3: just tv rewatch. Plus I do a parody song that's

822
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 3: a synopsis of every episode. Wait really and yeah, okay,

823
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 3: then yeah I did. My best one was I did

824
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 3: this Paparazzi by Lady Gaga. But it's about Presibuluski, who

825
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 3: is a cop. Yeah, he's a character on the show.

826
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 3: You'll you'll like it, probably, I don't know. Probably.

827
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,479
Speaker 2: So the other thing that happened in Maryland, the only

828
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 2: of the two things that happened in Maryland. I'm from Maryland.

829
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 2: That's why I'm talking shit on Maryland. I should make

830
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: that pa.

831
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 4: Oh yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

832
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 2: Just so that everyone who's docsing me as like one

833
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 2: more piece of information. Yeah, all right, So they show

834
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: up to Camp David, Palestinian negotiators, including Yaser Arafat. They

835
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 2: went in prepared to accept Israel's right to seventy eight

836
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 2: percent of historic Palestine and except remaining only on the

837
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,959
Speaker 2: twenty two percent that they currently controlled the West Bank

838
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 2: and the Gaza Strip. Yeah, they were even willing to

839
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 2: do some land trades on a one to one basis

840
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 2: for some of the land that Israel really wanted. They're like, yeah,

841
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 2: we really want this, like one little part, you know,

842
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 2: mm hmm. And their one demand was that they were like, Okay,

843
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 2: if this is our territory, if this is a state,

844
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 2: Israel has to withdraw from our territory because we are

845
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 2: now a sovereign state, right, And they weren't willing to,

846
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 2: as one of them put it in negotiat or put

847
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 2: it compromise further on the compromise that they had already made.

848
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

849
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 2: They also wanted all Palestinian refugees to have a right

850
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 2: of return so they go back and this stuff they own,

851
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 2: whether it's in Palestine Israel and stuff like that, you know, right,

852
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 2: Israel was like, we hear that, we hear that that's

853
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 2: what you want. What if instead, and this is basically

854
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 2: the same thing. Anyone who's listening will totally understand this is

855
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 2: basically the same thing. How About you get seventy three

856
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 2: percent of the West Bank because we really like the

857
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 2: West Bank. Yeah, and you get one hundred percent of

858
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: the Gaza strip, and we get to keep the largest

859
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 2: settlements within your borders. And the West Bank will be

860
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 2: split in half by an Israeli controlled road, and it'll

861
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 2: be split into four cantons, of which one is entirely

862
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 2: entirely Israeli, with Israeli controlled borders between each of the cantons.

863
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 2: So your state is now divided into four more parts.

864
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 2: And Israel would control all your air space of course naturally,

865
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 2: and and your.

866
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 3: Water yeah, oh got it didn't even against the water part. Yeah,

867
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 3: and your water as well.

868
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

869
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 2: And we can put troops in your quote unquote state

870
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 2: anytime we want, if we decide it's an emergency, and

871
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 2: there's no right of return because literally their stated reason

872
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,439
Speaker 2: is because they would ruin the Jewishness of Israel. They

873
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 2: did not want any more ethnic minorities than they already had.

874
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, in the.

875
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:06,280
Speaker 2: State of Israel because for folks, so the Gaza Strip,

876
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: most of its population is descended from refugees displaced from

877
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,760
Speaker 2: other parts of Palestine when Israel took it all.

878
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 3: In forty eight. Yeah, it's like I think over, I

879
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 3: think it's seventy eight percent forty eight ers and descendants

880
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 3: of forty eight ers.

881
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh come yeah, that makes sense. And not every

882
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 2: Palestinian was displaced. So Israel has and had and has

883
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 2: a sizable air of minority of Israeli citizens. That minority

884
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 2: is about twenty one percent, and that's all they can stemic, right, yeah.

885
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 2: And so Palestine was like why did you fucking fly

886
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 2: us here?

887
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 3: Like why are we here?

888
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 2: How is this? How is this a state? Like what

889
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 2: are you offering us?

890
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 4: Right?

891
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 2: And you see the fucking Clinton's running around being like,

892
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 2: you know, we offered Palestine a state, but they didn't

893
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 2: take it. Yeah, this is the state they didn't take.

894
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,720
Speaker 2: Because this is still a major media talking point, right, Oh,

895
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 2: we offered Palestina state and they didn't take it. Both

896
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 2: Israel and America blamed the failure of the summit on

897
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 2: the fucking on the PLO.

898
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 3: Who were already compromising to a degree that most Palestinians

899
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 3: were not four. No, they were already compromising so much

900
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 3: that like, had they had they agreed to this, it

901
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 3: wouldn't have mattered, Yeah, because Israel would have continued their

902
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 3: incursions as is now their right, and Palaesinians would still

903
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 3: be living in this uh non state in which a

904
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,879
Speaker 3: foreign army can do whatever the fuck they want.

905
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

906
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 3: So the fact that they said no to this, people

907
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:51,879
Speaker 3: in the room, you know, on Israel's side have later

908
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 3: gone on to say, yeah, I wouldn't have taken I

909
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 3: wouldn't have taken that deal either. No, why would you

910
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 3: take a deal? It's terrible.

911
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 2: It reminds me of one of our most recent episodes.

912
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,879
Speaker 2: It might be the most recent episode that we did

913
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 2: on the show was about Lakota resistance to the American Empire,

914
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 2: and over and over again, America would be like, oh,

915
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 2: just come to the table to talk, and they'd be like, fine, well,

916
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 2: put down the guns, we'll come talk. This is what

917
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 2: we want. We're willing to accept this, you know, limited

918
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 2: thing that, and then they'll be like, no, just kidding,

919
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 2: you don't get anything. And they'll be like, yeah, why

920
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 2: why am i here? Why am i here. Yeah, this

921
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 2: brings us to the second Inti Fautam, the background from

922
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 2: which is this week's main the main story of this week, which,

923
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 2: in classic cool people form, will mostly emerge next episode,

924
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 2: you know, first episode context. The second Inti Faoutum was

925
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 2: not as peaceful. Framing it this way is dangerous. It

926
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 2: was less peaceful than the first one. Right, well, the

927
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 2: first one with a peaceful because is real, kept murdering people.

928
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 3: But right, right right peaceful on the pro Palestine. So yeah, yes.

929
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 2: Starting in nineteen ninety six, Israel started making contingent The

930
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 2: Israeli government started making contingency plans for if the two

931
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 2: thousand summit failed, about all the shit that they were

932
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 2: going to go steal. As soon as this didn't work,

933
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 2: so the Palestinians also made contingency plans for all the

934
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 2: shit they were going to not let get stolen. Framing

935
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 2: and around a Palestinian violent uprising is like if someone

936
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 2: is laying siege to me outside my house for five

937
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 2: years and then I make some plans to defend my house.

938
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,760
Speaker 2: I don't feel like I am the source of violence

939
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 2: in that situation.

940
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 3: Yes, okay.

941
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 2: Riots broke out in Jerusalem in September two thousand over

942
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 2: an Israeli politician, Sharon doing some provocation shit where he

943
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 2: shows up in helicopter and is being a dick. Yes,

944
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 2: Palestinians threw some stones, so Sami Samy Palestinians through stones,

945
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 2: the idea fired one point three million bullets.

946
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 3: Yep, in the.

947
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 2: First couple of days. Jesus, a French mediator who was

948
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,399
Speaker 2: like trying to was trying to be in the middle

949
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 2: of all this, you know, is trying to figure out

950
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 2: how to make this work, was like, it is hard

951
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,240
Speaker 2: to convince the world that this is like a samey

952
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 2: same thing, or that the Palestinians are the aggressors, right

953
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 2: while Israel is shooting people from helicopters for throwing rocks. Yeah, overall,

954
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 2: any given clash at this time period had about a

955
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 2: ten to one casualty ratio. Ten Palestinians killed forevers every

956
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 2: Israeli and soon it is a more violent clash than

957
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 2: the First Intifada, although we're going to talk about aspects

958
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 2: outside of that. But there's a stronger Islamic influence on

959
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 2: the violent parts of the resistance movement this time around.

960
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 4: Yep.

961
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 3: And you know, I want to say unfortunately. But you know,

962
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 3: at the same time, I mean just like I don't

963
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 3: fucking live there. No, I know exactly if I'm in

964
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 3: that position, I can't tell you I wouldn't fucking yeah,

965
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 3: drawn to the point of madness.

966
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:03,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

967
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 2: And also just like so no, go ahead, sorry.

968
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 3: No, it's just say, you know, it's it's like I

969
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 3: I'm a guy who understands political optics, and I'm also

970
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 3: a guy who had an older brother who bullied him

971
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:28,359
Speaker 3: a lot. Had no but like, you know, yeah, yeah

972
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 3: we're cool.

973
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 4: Now.

974
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 3: Yeah I didn't. I wasn't implying I killed him, but

975
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 3: I did think about suicide bombing him. No, but it

976
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 3: is the point being that, you know, it's uh, you

977
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 3: know it is it gets violent, yeah, on the pro

978
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 3: Palestine side.

979
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 2: No, And honestly, like I where I'm at personally, I

980
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 2: have like literally no ethical qualms with people's right to

981
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 2: self defense. I have no qualms with people targeting Israeli

982
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 2: military instructures and stuff. But the thing that Hamas is

983
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 2: famous for is of course being as long terrorists or whatever,

984
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 2: because they do terrorism. Starting nineteen ninety four, seven years

985
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 2: after their formation, they declared that they were willing to

986
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 2: target Israeli citizens and not just military targets.

987
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 4: Right.

988
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 2: The reason that they did that was because in nineteen

989
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 2: ninety four, an American Israeli settler named Baruch Goldstein threw

990
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,760
Speaker 2: a grenade into a mosque in Hebron and then opened fire,

991
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 2: killing twenty nine on armsiville.

992
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 3: Yes, this guy, by the way, Baruch Goldstein. He later

993
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 3: he's well, he's no longer with us.

994
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 4: Rip. But a.

995
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 3: Super right wing fascist Israeli named Ben Vere, who is

996
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 3: you know, been in the Israeli right, literally called the

997
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 3: Israeli fascist Zionist wing of Zionism is now in power,

998
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 3: has a portrait of Bruck Goldstein in his home.

999
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 2: Oh my fucking I'm god, I'm not. It's funny that

1000
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 2: this whole thing leads to lots of situations where I

1001
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 2: am not surprised, but I'm still shocked.

1002
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, it's like when you see it's because the

1003
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 3: Israeli right in our I don't know, in our kind

1004
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 3: of like news media is essentially just portrayed as like, oh,

1005
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 3: these are like these religious whack job settlers and whatnot,

1006
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 3: and then people essentially just talk about them as this

1007
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 3: kind of like, ugh, I know they're annoying, right, Yeah,

1008
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:42,360
Speaker 3: and people I think forget how much of this state

1009
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 3: is caters to these people and their ideology. And so

1010
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 3: when you hear like someone would have a portrait of

1011
00:55:52,640 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 3: a mass wearing Israeli terrorist in their home, you'd be like, well, certainly, yeah,

1012
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 3: that's respectability. Respectability of politics would dictate that a person

1013
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 3: who is pro that wouldn't say it, you know, out loud,

1014
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 3: or have a portrait of the person who did that.

1015
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 3: But you'd be wrong, Yeah, you'd be yeah, no that yeah, yeah,

1016
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 3: So that's why. So that's why that that's why Hamas

1017
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:28,359
Speaker 3: was like, oh fuck it, we're you going for.

1018
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, civilians and they and it's like it doesn't make

1019
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 2: it okay because to the wrongs don't make a right. Yeah,

1020
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 2: but you can, you can fucking understand it.

1021
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not it's not this, you know, again with

1022
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 3: the narrative around Israel Palestine, it's not that Islam is

1023
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 3: terror and violence. That's that's the whole thing, you know.

1024
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 3: It's like they try to like reduce like Islam and

1025
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 3: anyone who is Muslim into this like you know, archetype

1026
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 3: of the terrorist who just kills because it is they

1027
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 3: believe in their book it says you're allowed to kill

1028
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 3: the Heathens. It's like, no, there's very real political reasons

1029
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,399
Speaker 3: around it that are very specific to this conflict, very

1030
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 3: specific to Israel Palestine, to the back and forth of

1031
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 3: the violence between them. It is not like just ah, well,

1032
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 3: it's because they're born that way or their religion tells

1033
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 3: them to be that way. It's you know, we like

1034
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 3: to be reductive when it comes to Islam because of

1035
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 3: the fact that it's easy for Americans to understand they

1036
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 3: hate us for our freedoms. You know, boom done. No

1037
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 3: need to think about any context outside of I'm free

1038
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 3: and you hate that our women wear bathing suits.

1039
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1040
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 2: Massa's statement was that if Israel did not discriminate against

1041
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 2: fighters and civilians, they would before between If did not

1042
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 2: discriminate between fighters and civilians, then they would be forced

1043
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 2: to respond in kind, but they would stop targeting civilians

1044
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 2: as soon as Israel did. Time after time, they offer

1045
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 2: Israel a quid pro quo, no more targeting civilians, agreement,

1046
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 2: and time after time, Israel's like, now we're good.

1047
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1048
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 2: And at the start of the second Antifada, Hamas wasn't

1049
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 2: wildly popular before the second anti Fada started, about ten

1050
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 2: percent of Palestinian supported Hamas. A year and two it

1051
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 2: seventeen percent died. By two thousand and six, they were

1052
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 2: democratically elected as the governing force in the Gaza Strip,

1053
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 2: defeating Fatah the Yaesir Arafat's group, who I think died

1054
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 2: right around this time.

1055
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 3: Yes, two thousand and four I think keeped okay, and

1056
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 3: four or five, But yes, that's that is what happened.

1057
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 2: And I don't I don't like Hamasa's policies or their tactics.

1058
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 2: But the only reason they are not perceived as a

1059
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 2: legitimate force is because that Israel doesn't recognize Palestine as

1060
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 2: a state. That is the only reason.

1061
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 3: And they also didn't recognize the election of Hamas when

1062
00:58:55,920 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 3: the elections happened. Yeah, they did not recognized the election

1063
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 3: and they actually democracy right exactly, and they tried to

1064
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 3: get you know, they tried to coordinate a coup by Fatah,

1065
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 3: who was you know, the Plos political party, and that

1066
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 3: coup did not work out. And you know, if you

1067
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 3: hear about you know, Palestinian on Palestinian crime around the

1068
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 3: time of Hamas, you'll mostly see hamas As like, oh,

1069
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 3: they got into power and they just started killing the

1070
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 3: political opposition. It's like, no, they tried to they tried

1071
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 3: to undo the election, right, they tried to undo the election.

1072
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 3: And it's worth noting there's not been an election since. Yah,

1073
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:47,439
Speaker 3: so when well and so, but also when here, when

1074
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 3: you hear people say, you know, well they voted for

1075
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 3: you know, they voted for Amas. You know the fifty

1076
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 3: percent or I forget a huge number of Palestinians are children,

1077
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 3: and uh, we're not alive or voting age in two

1078
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 3: thousand and six, and so the idea that they would

1079
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 3: be responsible for Hamas being in power is fucking atrocious.

1080
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 3: And even if they were, it would be fucking a

1081
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 3: tros right. No, I did not vote for Arnold Schwarzenegger. Yeah,

1082
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 3: when he became governor, and if he had started terminating

1083
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 3: all the other states and then they collective collectively punished

1084
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 3: all of California, you'd be against that. It was a

1085
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 3: very I'm really dragging that metaphor out, but you get it.

1086
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and absolutely, And plus he has that sword, yeah, dude,

1087
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 3: Conan sword. Yeah, he would have stopped man, he would

1088
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 3: have stopped all the collective punishment that I'm imagining in

1089
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 3: my brain.

1090
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 2: And now tell you would have personally gone out there

1091
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 2: and done it. So the second indefautam as before the

1092
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 2: election of Hamas, and it's the background story to the

1093
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 2: thing that is today's story, because not all the uprising islamisist. Basically,

1094
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 2: the Palestinian authority was increasingly central during this point, but

1095
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 2: the popular assemblies are still around. They're alienated from the

1096
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 2: centralized authority. But they organized an entire movement focused on

1097
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 2: strategic nonviolence. And again I'm not making an ethical statement

1098
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 2: about that, but they did it, and I think it's cool.

1099
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 2: I think it was an interesting strategy. The main issue

1100
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 2: was the wall called the security fence or the apartheid

1101
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:28,520
Speaker 2: wall or the segregation wall, or Wikipedia calls it the barrier,

1102
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 2: because I think that's New.

1103
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 3: York Times is line around it, because they like I

1104
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 3: always like to find a neutral term for prison bars.

1105
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And in contrast to some of the other stuff,

1106
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 2: this new movement involves an awful lot of women, and

1107
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 2: soon they had solidarity from internationals and from Israelis. The

1108
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 2: first network for solidarity at this time, at least that

1109
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 2: I ran across, was called ta Ayush. This was a

1110
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 2: network of hundreds of activists. I believe israelis both Jewish

1111
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,439
Speaker 2: and Arab citizens of Israel, and they would bring food

1112
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 2: to besieged cities and towns, defend Palestinian farmers from settlers

1113
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 2: and soldiers as they worked their lands. And though this

1114
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 2: particular group continue to be woven throughout the story, basically

1115
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 2: there's a lot of cool stuff that's going to happen,

1116
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of different groups that are all

1117
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 2: going to be doing it, and they're going to be

1118
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 2: coming from slightly different angles and working together to do

1119
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 2: really cool shit.

1120
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 4: Nice.

1121
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 2: In two thousand and one, you get another organization, the

1122
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 2: International Solidarity Movement, and this is a Palestinian led organization

1123
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 2: which brings volunteers from around the world to participate in

1124
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:36,919
Speaker 2: non violent direct action against settlements and occupation. They're pretty rad,

1125
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 2: they're very consciously supporters of diversity of tactics, and I

1126
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 2: think that this statement like gets at the balance between

1127
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 2: why is strategic nonviolence and the right wing hates them.

1128
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 2: Because of the following statement, as enshrined in international law

1129
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 2: and UN resolutions, we recognize the Palestinian right to resist

1130
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 2: Israeli violence and occupation via alogity mint arms struggle. However,

1131
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 2: we believe nonviolence can be a powerful weapon in fighting oppression,

1132
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 2: and we are committed to the principles of non violent resistance.

1133
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 2: And so the right wing like loses their shit over this,

1134
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 2: being like they're clearly terrorists, they say, right there. Ism

1135
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 2: actions include everything from mass demonstrations to forming human chains

1136
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 2: to block soldiers from fucking with Palestinians, like when Palacine

1137
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 2: needs to go and tear down military roadblocks, they'll defend them.

1138
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 2: They will also break curfew to escort kids to school.

1139
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 2: Soon they move to human shielding and witnessing and they

1140
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 2: start staying in home slated for demolition and they're like

1141
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 2: riding with ambulances and shit. And this is like two

1142
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 2: thousand and one to two thousand and five ish is

1143
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 2: sort of their heyday. They're still around in Amatrona. The

1144
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 2: information I have is between two thousand and one and

1145
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 2: two thousand and five.

1146
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 3: Right, Yes, that's what we are focusing on.

1147
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 2: Israel makes a huge deal out of Hamas and it's

1148
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 2: human shields right now, And the implication is that Hamas

1149
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 2: keeps civilians around just so they can like do their evil,

1150
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 2: nefarious shit, and that they've like forced or brainwashed all

1151
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 2: these civilians.

1152
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 3: Right, or they've literally tied them to their chest.

1153
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, yeah, exactly. In reality, the human shield movement

1154
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 2: is brave as fuck, people from relatively privileged positions who

1155
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 2: are generally voluntarily acting to protect civilians and activists.

1156
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 4: M hmm.

1157
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 2: There were For example, we talked about this last time,

1158
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 2: but I just I was so interested in all the

1159
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 2: parallels between this episode and the last episode. There were

1160
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 2: white voluntary human shields at the occupation of Wounded Knee

1161
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 2: in the nineteen seventies by the American Indian Movement, and

1162
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 2: it was the people who lived there already were like, no,

1163
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 2: we'll stay, and then they can't murder everyone because there's

1164
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 2: white people here. And then the media was like they've

1165
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 2: kidnapped these white people. Of the white people are like, no,

1166
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 2: we're here on purpose, we live here, fuck you. Or

1167
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 2: on their side there are neighbors, you know.

1168
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds relatively familiar.

1169
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the what kind of human shielding that

1170
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 2: the ism was doing. To quote an article from The

1171
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 2: Stranger quote, when a Palestinian was shot a while ago

1172
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 2: near the Rapa Egypt border crossing and Israeli soldiers wouldn't

1173
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 2: let anyone walk into the area to retrieve the body.

1174
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 2: The ismmers say that they took a stretcher, walked into

1175
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 2: the area despite Israeli fire, picked up the body and

1176
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 2: removed it for burial. And that's who the ism were

1177
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 2: and are. And so in two thousand and three, Israel

1178
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 2: thought about this and they said, what if we just

1179
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 2: kill these people? Can we get away with that cat

1180
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 2: we just kill them? Do you think we can kill

1181
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 2: a twenty three year old blonde American woman in broad

1182
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 2: daylight get away with it?

1183
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 3: Ah, you don't know until you try. Well, you don't

1184
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 3: know until you try.

1185
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 2: Well, I answer that question on WEDNESDAYD since that's a

1186
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 2: shitty cliffhanger. The answers, yes, they can, and they will.

1187
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:56,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, they can.

1188
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1189
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 3: I mean you probably guess that, yeah, by our tone

1190
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 3: of a you know, silly resignation to the horrors of

1191
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 3: the world.

1192
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so we will talk. We'll tell that story

1193
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 2: and some more stories.

1194
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1195
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 3: And it's a really amazing story. And I'm so glad.

1196
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 3: I was hoping that we were going to talk about

1197
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 3: Rachel Corey in this episode or in this series, because

1198
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 3: she is an incredible martyr and uh, should be someone

1199
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 3: who more people know about what happened to her and

1200
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:35,240
Speaker 3: what she did and what happened to her family subsequently.

1201
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:39,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if you like the why yeah, thanks, yep.

1202
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 2: If you like making light of bad things that are

1203
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 2: represented on television screens, because the Wires about that's right.

1204
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 3: Yes, you'll love Pod Yourself a Gun a TV rewatch podcast.

1205
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 3: We went through all of the Sopranos, and we are

1206
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 3: about to end season four of the Wire and then

1207
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 3: there's only one more season after that until we find

1208
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 3: a new TV show that we can all watch together.

1209
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 3: And also, like I said, I want to learn how

1210
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 3: to make that chinzo abbe gun. Pod Yourself a Gun

1211
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 3: wherever you get your podcasts and also follow me on Instagram. Uh,

1212
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 3: and you'll see some of my anti Zionist Jewish videos.

1213
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 3: They're they're funny and stupid, I don't know.

1214
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 2: And well received by everyone. They're they're really good.

1215
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1216
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 3: I I you know, there was a time where this

1217
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 3: was too niche of a subject for you know, jokes

1218
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 3: about it to be understood, and now we live in

1219
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 3: a shitty a shitty timeline, so finally, yeah, these jokes

1220
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 3: are not niche.

1221
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:55,920
Speaker 2: Yay that's the side. If you want to follow me

1222
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 2: on social media. I'm still technically on Twitter, but I

1223
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:00,440
Speaker 2: hate that. I'm on Twitter somehow I can tell you

1224
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 2: about it. And I'm on Instagram at Marty Kiljoy. I'm

1225
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 2: on substack. I write an essay every week and half

1226
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 2: of it is free and half of it's like more

1227
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 2: personal and it is only for people who pay me.

1228
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 2: It's not it's not like freemium. You actually get the

1229
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 2: better stuff for free. You just get to like me

1230
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 2: talking about like my dog and why I like winner

1231
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:22,519
Speaker 2: if you if you pay me, and you can also

1232
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 2: cooler Zone Media, then you get all the cool zone

1233
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 2: media podcasts. And if you do like current events, because

1234
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:32,640
Speaker 2: we don't do current events on the show clearly, but

1235
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 2: it could happen here. Just current events and so just

1236
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:39,640
Speaker 2: Hood Politics with Prop. I never realized until later that

1237
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 2: the reason we always say hood Politics with Prop is

1238
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 2: because that's the name of the podcast. The with Prop

1239
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 2: is in the name, and so if you're searching it,

1240
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:50,680
Speaker 2: it's Hood Politics with Prop and it's a These are

1241
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:53,240
Speaker 2: good event podcasts, and.

1242
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:58,719
Speaker 3: It's a great podcast, and you know, Prop is prop Rules.

1243
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:05,680
Speaker 2: We'll talk to you all on Wednesday.

1244
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1245
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool zone Media,

1246
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 1: visit our website coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out

1247
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:16,679
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1248
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:17,520
Speaker 1: your podcasts.