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Speaker 1: From UFOs two, ghosts and government cover ups. History is

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Speaker 1: whiddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt and

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Speaker 1: Ben and as always we are here with gosh No

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Speaker 1: the nick nickname got so long last time we were

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Speaker 1: podcasts and remember, yeah, we had we had this thing

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Speaker 1: where we would need trumpets and then we would need somebody.

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Speaker 1: Oh that was that was going to be a minstrel

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Speaker 1: with a carpet of some sort. You think it was awesome,

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Speaker 1: town Noel Brown, I think we can dispense with the

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Speaker 1: nicknames if you want. I mean, it's okay if if

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Speaker 1: if something comes up and it's meaningful but don't feel

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Speaker 1: then you don't have to do it, you know. Well yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's that's a weird psychological thing, right. It's

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Speaker 1: always fun to do something when you don't have to.

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Speaker 1: When when you were a kid, did you ever want

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Speaker 1: to mow the lawn and then you eventually had to

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Speaker 1: mow the lawn? Was that just me? Know? It's YouTube? Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you see what I'm saying. Well, we're talking about happiness

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Speaker 1: in a way, so there's a very interesting thing that

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Speaker 1: happens with happiness. There's a there's a comparative factor to happiness,

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Speaker 1: and it's very strange. If some you could have two

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Speaker 1: people write two people. One is a guy making thirty

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Speaker 1: grand a year doing whatever he does. Give him a

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Speaker 1: fake job. What do you do? Lawnmower? He's a lawnmower

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Speaker 1: and uh, one who mows lawns. Yeah, he's a lawnmower

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Speaker 1: man and he makes thirty thousand dollars a year. If

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Speaker 1: everybody else and is oh, and there's this other person. Uh,

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Speaker 1: she makes fifty thou dollars a year. What does she

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Speaker 1: do now? She makes podcasts? Okay, she makes a lot

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Speaker 1: of money from Okay, So we've got this podcaster lady

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Speaker 1: making fifty year and this lawnmower guy making thirty. If

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Speaker 1: all of the other people at the lawnmowing company make

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Speaker 1: like twenty five or even twenty eight thousand dollars, this

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Speaker 1: guy is the king of the mountain. He he is

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Speaker 1: thrilled to be alive. Things taste sweeter. How do you

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Speaker 1: find find out what everybody else makes? Let's just say

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Speaker 1: that for the sake of ok But if the lady

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Speaker 1: making fifty thou dollars of the podcasting thing, finds out

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Speaker 1: that her co workers are making you know, fifty thousand,

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Speaker 1: right or fifty three, even then she is going to

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Speaker 1: be miserable and unhappy. And that's because for a great

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Speaker 1: deal of the human species, happiness is so comparative. And

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Speaker 1: there are other studies about there are other studies about

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Speaker 1: whether money makes you happy, whether it really buys happiness.

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Speaker 1: It turns out that that's true up to a certain point,

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Speaker 1: uh in the u s at least, and then after

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Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter as much. I mean, what you're

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Speaker 1: describing to me is I've always thought of it sort

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Speaker 1: of like that grass is always greener kind of mentality,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of like you look at what are

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Speaker 1: the will have keeping up with the Joneses or the

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Speaker 1: Smiths or whatever generic American last name you'd like to

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Speaker 1: use for this analogy, and um, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: un guilty of it, but you definitely have to, like,

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Speaker 1: it's a good thing to keep in check, keep yourself

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Speaker 1: in check over because it's very easy to like start

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Speaker 1: coveting what other people have when you realize at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day that it wouldn't necessarily make you

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Speaker 1: happier if you had it. That's a great that's a

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Speaker 1: great point, because that comparative stuff works a couple of

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Speaker 1: different ways. Listeners, you probably have had the same experience

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Speaker 1: that almost every kid has growing up in the West,

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Speaker 1: where someone one a parent or an authority figure says,

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Speaker 1: you know, we'll think of the people who have less

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Speaker 1: than you two, or someone says, uh, you know, it

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Speaker 1: could be worse, which my mother used to say all

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Speaker 1: the time, and I just hated it. It can be worse,

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Speaker 1: doesn't make anything, It doesn't change anything. It could be worse.

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Speaker 1: Is just like also, you shouldn't be upset about these

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Speaker 1: horrible things. And and it's strange because when we think

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Speaker 1: about our unhappy or problems in relation to the larger

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Speaker 1: field of humanity, we have, um, we have such a disconnect,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like we we were talking about this briefly

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Speaker 1: off air, and I think you alluded to it. No,

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Speaker 1: what's the what what what's the what are the problems?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we were just discussing problems that we're having

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Speaker 1: in our daily lives right now. My my main one

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Speaker 1: is that my kid poops on me occasionally. Us gross,

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Speaker 1: I don't like that. It's horrible. But really that's one

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Speaker 1: of my biggest problems right now. I mean, that's messed up.

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Speaker 1: That is messed up for me to even I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It makes you feel horrible, and I think it's because

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Speaker 1: maybe my mom kind of gave me some of the

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Speaker 1: same things. Not she wasn't doing it for any bad reason.

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Speaker 1: It's for a really good reason. And think about other

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Speaker 1: people have empathy. Imagine yourself if you don't have all

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Speaker 1: the things that you have now. But it definitely weighs

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Speaker 1: on me pretty heavily. No, the I think that my

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Speaker 1: problem is are are bad sometimes? Right? And I really

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Speaker 1: you kind of wallow in what I'm dealing with. But

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Speaker 1: then if I pull myself out a little bit, I

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Speaker 1: just realized how ridiculously great I have it. Yeah, I mean, like,

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Speaker 1: I have a six year old daughter, and the perfect

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Speaker 1: way to sum up these like first world problems is

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Speaker 1: to observe the behavior of a six year old. So

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Speaker 1: she's constantly like, We're in a store and she's like,

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Speaker 1: I want that thing, and I'm like, why do you

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Speaker 1: want it? She's like, well, because it looks cool and

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Speaker 1: because I really I feel as though I need that,

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Speaker 1: and deserve that, and I have to say things like

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Speaker 1: I never thought I would be this, but I am, like,

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Speaker 1: let's why don't you not worry about what you don't

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Speaker 1: have and just think about what you do have and

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Speaker 1: appreciate that, you know, and let's let's go from there.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing. It doesn't work though, not not not hearing it,

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Speaker 1: and um and you know, I mean, she's not a

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Speaker 1: super tantrum type kid, but she definitely you know, she's

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Speaker 1: got some some some one. I'm not giving it. I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna know. No, she's really smart though, and she's

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Speaker 1: kind of villainous. One time she told me I have

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Speaker 1: made a powerful enemy when I wouldn't give her a fanta.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, that never happened. And somebody, um did make

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Speaker 1: a powerful enemy recently though, didn't they. Yeah, I'm still

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Speaker 1: kind of sore about it. I don't want to go

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Speaker 1: into it. No, I you could event maybe when I'm

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Speaker 1: in a better place to talk about emotionally. But listeners,

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Speaker 1: just you just to be absolutely clear. The thing that

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Speaker 1: we're alluding to, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme

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Speaker 1: of problems. We are today talking about something that's related

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Speaker 1: to an earlier podcast. We did right. We did the

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Speaker 1: future of inequality. Now it came back to do the

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Speaker 1: future of poverty. And so first we have to ask ourselves,

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Speaker 1: you know what what is poverty? People? We talked about

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Speaker 1: how people Okay, full disclosure for everybody. Uh the slight

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Speaker 1: jump you just heard was and edit because off air

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Speaker 1: off air met you convinced me that if everybody is

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Speaker 1: talking about first of all problem, I should talk about

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Speaker 1: one too. It's a little difficult because I am furious.

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Speaker 1: No you might have to edit parts of this because

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I can hold it in. So

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Speaker 1: I think somebody stole some mail from me. I was

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Speaker 1: ordering full disclosure, was ordering some comics, uh, graphic novel

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Speaker 1: set from a series that Noel turned us onto called

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Speaker 1: Lock and Key, and it's fantastic and is waiting days.

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Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure somebody. I'm pretty sure somebody stole it.

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Speaker 1: And there's this strange um, you know, the bureaucracy in

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Speaker 1: that movie Brazil, That's what I'm going through. Try like

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Speaker 1: I have the packet packing tracking number, and I have

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Speaker 1: all my bureaucratic red tape ducks in a row. And

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Speaker 1: these people, these people, uh, they just push you. You

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Speaker 1: know it's it's no help, and and well it says

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Speaker 1: that there's saying oh well, then it says it was

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Speaker 1: delivered because you came and picked it up, And I said, no,

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Speaker 1: I was with myself the whole time. I didn't go anywhere.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's not like sleepwalking. You're right anyway, I'm

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Speaker 1: not a somnambulist or whatever. But that's a horrible feeling

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Speaker 1: where you really thought you were gonna get it, You're

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Speaker 1: gonna get to get back into the story that you've

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Speaker 1: been waiting for, and now it's like, but it's such

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Speaker 1: a stupid problem to have, you know, considering what what

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Speaker 1: I had, This story already encounters so many things that

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Speaker 1: we already have. Right, already have a phone where it's

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Speaker 1: possible to call a post office, right, already have a

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Speaker 1: phone where it's possible to call the people are supposed

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Speaker 1: to be shipping it. Already had a little bit of

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Speaker 1: extra scratch to get some graphic novels of all things

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Speaker 1: Internet connection, an Internet connections on prime account, not to

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Speaker 1: mention a shipping service that can send you things. Oh yeah, totally,

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Speaker 1: you're right. So I was being very small minded and

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Speaker 1: bradish and stupid and spoiled. We talked about being a

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Speaker 1: little hard on yourself, but well, we talked about real

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Speaker 1: problems before when we talked about the future of inequality

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Speaker 1: in a previous podcast that you should check out. You

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Speaker 1: don't have to listen to it to understand what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about today, but it will help sort of paint

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Speaker 1: the picture. So people spend a lot of time asking

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Speaker 1: how much money a person needs to live, Right, you've

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Speaker 1: seen those commercials. We've all seen their commercials. You know

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Speaker 1: it for a dollar a day, right, Yeah, and uh,

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Speaker 1: this leads us to ask, what is poverty? What's poverty?

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Speaker 1: How is it defined? Who's defining it? I mean, in general,

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Speaker 1: I guess we all basically have understanding of part of

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Speaker 1: what poverty is, um but you know, in general terms,

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Speaker 1: it's the state of being poor not possessing adequate resources,

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Speaker 1: whether in terms of money or basic needs that need

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Speaker 1: to be meant such as food, water, shelter, medical services. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a good ways say it, because this doesn't

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Speaker 1: one person's poor is another person's you know, wealth or

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Speaker 1: another person's pension. Right, Yes, it's it's a wildly different

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Speaker 1: across the world. Well, yeah, That's the one of the

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Speaker 1: hardest things that we found in researching this is that

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Speaker 1: it's there are institutions that are global that are trying

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Speaker 1: to kind of say, well, if we look at poverty globally,

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Speaker 1: what does it look like? And then you're having to

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Speaker 1: go down to each separate country, each separate region in

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Speaker 1: each country and say, well, what does poverty mean here,

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Speaker 1: and then trying to put say a dollar amount like

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Speaker 1: the U n does or the World Bank tries to

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Speaker 1: put a dollar amount a day for how much a

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Speaker 1: person must make or must not make to be considered

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Speaker 1: poor or not. Right, Yeah, because their their degrees of

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Speaker 1: poverty as well. What we're talking about specifically will be

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Speaker 1: extreme poverty. And this is measured, as you said, met

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Speaker 1: in absolute terms, meaning people living on less than a

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Speaker 1: dollar a day. Uh. It used to be a dollar

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Speaker 1: twenty five a day and then went up to a

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Speaker 1: dollar and ninety cents a day. That's what the World

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Speaker 1: Bank uses as a benchmark for these poverty statistics, and

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Speaker 1: the estimates of this very widely. But ladies and gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: we are happy to say there is good news at

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Speaker 1: least at the beginning of this, which is that over

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Speaker 1: time the percent of the population with extreme poverty has

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Speaker 1: been in decline. Yeah, that's right. One of the one

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Speaker 1: of the big numbers we were looking at was that

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eight one, according to the World Bank, uh,

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Speaker 1: there were I think of human beings and the global

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Speaker 1: population were considered to be below the poverty line. Then

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Speaker 1: in nineteen it will is thirty seven percent. Then jump

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Speaker 1: all the way up to two thousand twelve, and we're

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Speaker 1: currently at twelve point seven percent. But even that's declining,

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Speaker 1: you know. That's yes, that's two twelve and we're I

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Speaker 1: think the most recent estimates. Let's see the fourteen percent

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and fifteen. According to that is the

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Speaker 1: MDG Report Summary, which is the United Nations Millennium Development Goals.

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Speaker 1: That's their little summary from the last year that that

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Speaker 1: was we should probably talk about what the millennium development

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Speaker 1: goals are. If I'm gonna jump that out, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about it. So the United Nations on the

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Speaker 1: at the suggestion of the then Secretary at the time

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Speaker 1: of Blue Wis Copia Nan, decided that they would set

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Speaker 1: forth these broad goals, and one of those goals was

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Speaker 1: the eradication of extreme poverty they've at some of those

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Speaker 1: benchmarks there and they're still working on it. But what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about now, when like, as we kick around

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Speaker 1: these statistics, is that if this were a game, the

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Speaker 1: rules of the game are changing while the game is uh,

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Speaker 1: while the game is a foot, you know. So we

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Speaker 1: see that, let me see that poverty doesn't necessarily mean

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Speaker 1: the same um, the same thing across the planet. But

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Speaker 1: we also see that despite the wide misunderstanding and some

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Speaker 1: of the hidden agendas are alleged hidden agendas that will

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Speaker 1: be discussing here. Uh, despite all this stuff, and despite

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Speaker 1: the dwindling of extreme poverty, the numbers are still the

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Speaker 1: numbers are still bad. Not being in extreme poverty does

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Speaker 1: not mean you are in any way, shape or form

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Speaker 1: necessarily doing well. Oh just means that you are not

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Speaker 1: extremely impoverished. So so let's talk about some of those factors.

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Speaker 1: If we talked about the future of poverty, we talk

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Speaker 1: also about the factors affecting poverty, which are not necessarily

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Speaker 1: what you might think, ladies and gentlemen. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: the big stuff, right, One of the factors that I

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Speaker 1: hadn't really thought about, and how much affect it would

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Speaker 1: have on poverty globally is climate change and how it's

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Speaker 1: going to basically, I mean, it's gonna make a lot

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Speaker 1: more people more poor. If you think about rising sea levels,

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Speaker 1: if you think about weather and catastrophes that are going

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Speaker 1: to be occurring at higher and higher frequencies, or at

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Speaker 1: least that are projected to take place at higher frequencies,

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Speaker 1: I would think too it would affect like agrarian economies.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, droughts, fires, there are all of these things

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Speaker 1: that are you know, at least according to the science,

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Speaker 1: being affected by global climate change. Well there's a yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a a point. There's a double whammy there as well.

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Speaker 1: Like I know that the ideas, the the ideas circling

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Speaker 1: around environmental catastrophes are often politicized. So let's just look

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Speaker 1: at it from a geographical place. Here's why I called

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Speaker 1: the double whammy because the areas of the world that

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Speaker 1: are being affected most by these things are typically in

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Speaker 1: developing regions of the world, which means that there's not

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Speaker 1: as much infrastructure, uh the states involved and the people

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Speaker 1: affected don't have some of the same safeguards or safety nets.

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Speaker 1: For instance, in Bangladesh, there's gonna be a lot of

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Speaker 1: problems with flooding. Yeah, there are already a lot of problems,

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Speaker 1: and we kind of saw like what there is to

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Speaker 1: be done internally in Bangladesh and what kind of safeguards

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Speaker 1: there are, and I mean, it's only going to get worse,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, some Pacific nations are already worried

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Speaker 1: about sinking under the water within our life times. This

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Speaker 1: could create something that I think is very strange and

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Speaker 1: I never thought this would happen, something called climate refugees,

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Speaker 1: where you have to flee where you currently live in

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Speaker 1: order to either be at a higher elevation, to be

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Speaker 1: a where a place, a place where food is available.

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Speaker 1: Right Like to your point, No, if there's an igrarian

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Speaker 1: economy and people depend upon that for sustenance and livelihood,

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Speaker 1: then when that land is unerable, then they have to go.

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Speaker 1: They can't. There's not another option. And just quickly specifically,

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Speaker 1: that study was saying that there there could be another

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Speaker 1: one million people who I guess are included or added

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Speaker 1: to the numbers of those who are extreme in extreme

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Speaker 1: poverty in the next fifteen years, especially in Sub Saharan

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Speaker 1: Africa and South Asia. Those are the places that are

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Speaker 1: most at risk right, yes, And with that continuing, I

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Speaker 1: think we should also note the future of qualities skyrocketing

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Speaker 1: in certain parts of the world. Our country included on

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Speaker 1: that list. But there's there's this other thing that maybe

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Speaker 1: we'll make for a different show in the future, but

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Speaker 1: we should talk about it now. Technology you guys, times

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Speaker 1: you change yea, and a couple of things that this

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Speaker 1: the curred to me around technology, And I was listening

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Speaker 1: to an NPR piece on Marketplace a couple days ago,

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Speaker 1: and I wish I could remember a little bit more

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Speaker 1: specifics about it, but um, they reference a stat that

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Speaker 1: was really interesting to me that folks in lower income

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Speaker 1: brackets are more likely to get into traffic accidents that

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Speaker 1: can cause them serious health problems because they don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: have access to cars with the newest safety features. So

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Speaker 1: if you're not making as much money, you might be

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Speaker 1: driving an older car. You might let things lapse as

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Speaker 1: far as maintenance of that car. And you also might

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Speaker 1: be in a car that doesn't have any of the

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Speaker 1: newer like you know, sensors that keep you that tell

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Speaker 1: you when you're out of your lane, or like you know,

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Speaker 1: backup cameras, things like that that tend to add, you know,

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Speaker 1: to the safety of vehicles. And then so I was

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Speaker 1: googling that to try to figure out what the study was,

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Speaker 1: and I actually came upon this blog on the World

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Speaker 1: Bank website that said a huge factor, or at least

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Speaker 1: a factor. It's a lot larger than you might think

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Speaker 1: in uh, poverty is automotive accidents. And so that sort

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Speaker 1: of ties in because a large number of people can

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Speaker 1: actually lose their jobs after serious car accidents for a

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Speaker 1: number of reasons, whether it's you know, health, they can't

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Speaker 1: perform functions required to do their jobs anymore. Maybe they

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Speaker 1: weren't insured properly and they are now dealing and dead,

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Speaker 1: dealing with all kinds of medical bills, and it goes on.

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Speaker 1: So it takes longer for victims of road crashes to

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Speaker 1: find jobs because the you know, the criteria is gonna

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Speaker 1: be much more specific if they actually have suffered serious injuries.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, there are these huge income gaps

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Speaker 1: between victims of traffic crashes and non victims. So if

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Speaker 1: for example, you are at fault in a traffic accidents

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Speaker 1: and then you don't have adequate insurance, you can totally

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Speaker 1: ruin your life. You could lose your house con spiral

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Speaker 1: out of control. And I mean, I think that is

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Speaker 1: that definitely ties into the technology factor. Maybe not in

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Speaker 1: the way that you were going with it, but I

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Speaker 1: think it's definitely something I think about. It's interesting. I

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Speaker 1: think it ties in perfectly because it is something that

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Speaker 1: that we don't consider, and it is into the future

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Speaker 1: of poverty because in some parts of the world you

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Speaker 1: have to have some sort of transportation. You can have

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Speaker 1: a car, right and a cell phone and still being

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Speaker 1: extremely poor, especially in a country where it's a necessity

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Speaker 1: to have those two things. And the other thing that

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Speaker 1: goes on with technology here is increasing automation. Are we

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Speaker 1: going to get to a point where most of the

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Speaker 1: jobs that are done by humans now just don't need

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Speaker 1: to We don't need those people to work. You know.

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Speaker 1: It is very strange that I was actually looking at

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Speaker 1: Marshall Brain's website for this, who is the founder of

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Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com, the site for which we work.

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Speaker 1: He's our Dave Thomas, Yeah, exactly, Mr Marshall Brain. Well,

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Speaker 1: he he writes about this stuff a lot about automation

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Speaker 1: and robotics and the future what it's gonna look like.

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Speaker 1: And the first thing that he says, that's going to

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Speaker 1: be the first job that's going to be driven out

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Speaker 1: through automation. He says, our truck drivers, because he thinks

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Speaker 1: it's gonna they're going to be automated trucks just going

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Speaker 1: all over the United States and delivering everything. Unfortunately, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it does seem like that's one of those things that

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Speaker 1: is just a matter of time. I mean, we know

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Speaker 1: that self driving cars exist that are you know, in

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Speaker 1: beta testing, that are pretty damn good, and you know,

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Speaker 1: you just um scale that technology and you know, put

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Speaker 1: out a fleet. Well, but but the thing is, uh,

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Speaker 1: that job of being a truck driver, Uh, that's actually

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Speaker 1: a fairly I mean it's not amazingly lucrative, but it's

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Speaker 1: a pretty darn good, steady job that you can get it.

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Speaker 1: And it's also a very kind of American job if

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Speaker 1: you think about it. I mean, it's a very like

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Speaker 1: kind of grassroots kind of like you know, working man's

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Speaker 1: type job. Well, yeah, it's so let's take these three

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Speaker 1: large concepts and let's paint the worst hypothetical picture. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to necessarily be in the States, but let's

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Speaker 1: say a person, um, I don't give him a name,

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Speaker 1: and if I use your name accidentally, listeners, I promise

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Speaker 1: it's not on purpose. So let's say Sam, right, sure, Sam.

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Speaker 1: So let's say that Sam grew up on a farm.

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Speaker 1: Sam grows up on a farm and becomes a truck driver, right,

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Speaker 1: And this is still when people can drive their own trucks. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But Sam's not doing that well because it's not paying

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Speaker 1: that well. Right, and Uh, he can't afford the insurance,

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Speaker 1: the the extra price you have to pay just since

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Speaker 1: private life to have a manually driven car, which is

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Speaker 1: going to be more expensive, right, and that also means

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Speaker 1: that he's at fault if an accident occurs. So an

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Speaker 1: accident occurs and he can't Uh, he can't get back

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Speaker 1: into the trekking industry because he has that one strike

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Speaker 1: and trucks are increasingly automated. They don't need He's in

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Speaker 1: a John Henry situation. They don't need a human driver.

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Speaker 1: So he goes back to his childhood farm, but it's

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Speaker 1: not there because the desertification has occurred or whatever in

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Speaker 1: the land as eroded. It's no longer arable. And then

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Speaker 1: in this dystopian future our Boys, Sam ends up joining

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Speaker 1: millions of other people who have no job, there's no

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Speaker 1: place that will employ them, and we would live in

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Speaker 1: this sounds like such a sci fi story like Black Mirror,

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Speaker 1: but we would live in a place where the only

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Speaker 1: people with power and the only people with jobs are

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Speaker 1: the people who own the machines and repair them. That's

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Speaker 1: one reason the Black Mirrors so excellent is because it's

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Speaker 1: incredibly appreciate in that way. Like I mean, the scenarios

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Speaker 1: that it depicts are based on very real problems and

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Speaker 1: very real technological situations that are reaching critical mass and

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Speaker 1: that could eventually lead to some dystopium kind of situation.

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Speaker 1: And the way you just describe that, it's interesting to

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Speaker 1: me because I think if this is like sort of

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Speaker 1: like a one day there are truck drivers and one

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Speaker 1: day there are no more truck drivers. But you're right,

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Speaker 1: it would be like a more gradual process where people

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Speaker 1: would gradually it would be more and more difficult to

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Speaker 1: pay for the insurance and to actually, you know, do

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Speaker 1: it the old way, sort of like with cabs and

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Speaker 1: Uber right now, for example. That's a that's a pretty

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Speaker 1: good point and in a disturbing point too. So with

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Speaker 1: but think, guys, not all hope is lost for Sam

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Speaker 1: and his countrymen, because he lives in a place where, yes,

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Speaker 1: there's a crumbling infrastructure, maybe, yes there's a corrupt government

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Speaker 1: and there's not enough uh employment to go around. But

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Speaker 1: what if a friendly international agency dedicated entirely to the

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Speaker 1: elimination of extreme poverty showed up and said, hey, we'll

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Speaker 1: help you out. Here's the safety net, here's the safety

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Speaker 1: that you wanted. Just pay us back and oh, just

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Speaker 1: a couple we'll give you some money. It's a loan,

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Speaker 1: no stress, just a couple of things go along with

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Speaker 1: the loans, standard business. Wait, man, are you talking about

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Speaker 1: like a mafia asque organization? He oh no, uh, we

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Speaker 1: are talking about the World Bank. And we'll get to

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Speaker 1: them in a moment, right after a word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. What if the World Bank

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Speaker 1: has a different purpose. I love that. I thought we

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Speaker 1: were in an episode video episode just then. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm being serious you guys, Well, I mean, what can

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Speaker 1: you give us a little bit more background in the

428
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: World Bank? And then we've kind of touched on it

429
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: throughout this episode, but I could use a little bit

430
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: of a primer. Yeah, okay, So the World Bank is

431
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: an international financial institution what they do is they give

432
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: loans to developing countries with the idea that they will

433
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: increase the economic growth of that country. So this would

434
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: be stuff like building damn for instance, here's a loan

435
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: to build a project of great infrastructure, right, and these

436
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: loans are attached often with conditions. In these conditions are

437
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: meant to better the economic state of the country. So,

438
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: for instance, corruption is a big problem in a lot

439
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: of developing countries. I mean, it's a big problem everywhere,

440
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: but it's a big problem in developing countries. Different types

441
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: of corruption, different types, that's right, And what the Bank

442
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: will do in order to combat that, for instance, would say, well,

443
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: we're taking we need to privatize some of your industries

444
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: because right now there's state running corrupt, which is a

445
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: you know, is an unfortunately common problem. So with their

446
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 1: official goal being the reduction of poverty through this kind

447
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: of capital investment in capital programs, they are and they

448
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: are a part of the United Nations. They're part of

449
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: the World Bank Group, which is part of the United

450
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: Nations Development Group. And they've had some hits, they've had

451
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: some misses. Uh, They've been accused at times of pursuing

452
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: a free market ideology that flies in the face of results,

453
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: So making the error of a lot of passionate, motivated,

454
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: smart people, which is to say, I know what will work,

455
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: and so I'll do this because I know the result,

456
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: even though I haven't done it before, or even though

457
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: I've done it before in the exact same way and

458
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: it had a horrible result, I'm going to do it

459
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: again because it might work this time. It might work

460
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: this time. Well in part of this too, to be

461
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: completely fair, and these are huge problems, you know what

462
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: I mean. This is not this is not something that

463
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: any group could get right all the time. Well, yeah,

464
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: you're trying on a global scale to fix economies, I mean,

465
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: and that's I don't know if there are many more

466
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: lofty goals besides getting humans to Mars. Are they trying

467
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: to fix the economy? Well, that's the question. There are

468
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: people on let's say the outskirts who would say no,

469
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: they're actually trying to perhaps destabilize certain areas of the

470
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: world and to go in and maybe gain a little

471
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: more control for global institution like the World Bank. Again,

472
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: that's on the fringes. M hmm. Can we circle back

473
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: to our hypothetical farmer situation. Sam, let's check it on Sam. Okay.

474
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, so Sam is one of the people affected,

475
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 1: and he's been displaced his truck. Our job is no more,

476
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: right is trucker job is no war? The farm's gone

477
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 1: nothing nothing tumbleweeds man. And so the World Bank comes

478
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: in that there aren't any roads, they're all in disrepair.

479
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: There could be uh some potential to make new farm

480
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 1: land with some irrigation projects, right, and we need money

481
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: for that, right, We need money for that, and we

482
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: need expertise. We need engineers because a lot of the

483
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: engineers have left the country for better paying jobs elsewhere.

484
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: There was a brain drain. So the World Bank comes

485
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: in and says, uh, says, well, we'll give you this one.

486
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: We'll build this infrastructure project and we will make we

487
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: will increase the GDP of the country right at the

488
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: gross domestic product. We will uh kickstart the economic growth.

489
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: This country will go from stagnating to developing again. And

490
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: one day, who knows, baby, you could be Singapore. I

491
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: don't know. And that's I don't know. If Pacino is

492
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: in the World Bank, is that the benchmark? So the target? Uh, well,

493
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: you know, the Singapore is a little authoritarian. But it's

494
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: it's a pretty clean country apparently. So here's where things

495
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: start to go wrong. They say, well, while we're building

496
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: this damn uh and this irrigation project that's going to

497
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: bring this farm land back. Uh, you, Sam and all

498
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: your neighbors have to move get out. It's we need

499
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: this area to work, right, I mean, you get out here?

500
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: Are we gonna at least pay you out? Though? Is

501
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: that how we roll? Ideally? But what if Sam says

502
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: I don't want to go, then Sam will be forcibly relocated.

503
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: At least this happened before where where people were forced

504
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: to get out. And yeah, it can happen in any situation.

505
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: You know, a state can in many cases impose um,

506
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: impose itself upon have it properly. Right, happens in the States. Yeah,

507
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: what's it called imminent domain? Ye a, k A. The

508
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: reason that the roads can widen into your yard. Right.

509
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: So here are some of the criticisms that people will say, uh,

510
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: including and these aren't all. These aren't necessarily the typical

511
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: idea of of anarchist or a conspiracy not. One of

512
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: the more ardent critics of the World Bank is its

513
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: former chief economist, Joseph STIGLETZ, I thought you were gonna

514
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: say Stalin, former Justice Stalin. Uh, So this is you'll hear.

515
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: You'll hear people argue on both sides. You'll hear some people.

516
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: I read a very interesting thing where a guy accused

517
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: the World Bank of being a socialist collectivist thing, and

518
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: then other criticisms. Of course, more criticism with it being

519
00:30:54,680 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: a uh too far into like a neoliberal idea of

520
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: the free market economy, right, that the invisible hand will

521
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: guide people to civilization. But Stiglett said that the policies

522
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: the bank implements happened too quickly and uh, it's referred

523
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: to as shock therapy, but it's in the wrong Uh,

524
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: it's in the wrong sequence. Uh. And that the bank

525
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: ends uprising g d P over anything else. So if

526
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: there's a higher g DP, that doesn't necessarily when the

527
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: economy is good for a country, it doesn't necessarily mean

528
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: the economy is good for the people in that country. Right.

529
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: And I'm not I'm not arguing for any political thing.

530
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: That's just a fact. And so Stiglets is saying that

531
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: these two ideas should not be conflated. And what he's

532
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: saying is he's saying there's a maybe a degree of

533
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: honest error in the implementation in these policies. But then

534
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: other people are saying, no, the UH International UH, that

535
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: the i m F and the World Bank function as

536
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: these tools of control, as as a way to keep

537
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: keep other states in subservient positions or even to practice

538
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: resource extraction. And it's strange because the I m F.

539
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: In UH, the i m F and the World Bank

540
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: cracked something called the Washington Consensus, which is where they

541
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: decided that the World Bank would also institute these policies

542
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: of privatization, deregulations, stuff like that. Stiglets objects to it

543
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: and says that it hasn't um it hasn't worked out,

544
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: that it's more of a of people wanting a nice

545
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: idea to be true and maybe they're doing it the

546
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: wrong way. He for instance, says that the Chilean success

547
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are proponents of the Washington

548
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: Sensus believe that Chile is a success story economically because

549
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: of World Bank I m F policies. Stiglets, however, says

550
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: that it's because they had state ownership of key industries,

551
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: particularly it's copper industries, so the state still owned the resources,

552
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: and of course other people wildly disagree that that's why

553
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: it happened. But that's the thing about the dismal science

554
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: of economics. You know, people can argue back and forth

555
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: all day. I can see that argument where if if

556
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: Chilia owned they owned the copper industry in their country,

557
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: they could use money coming in from that to perhaps

558
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: bolster certain parts of their economy, right, helped some things

559
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: out internally, rather than having this giant loan from the

560
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: World Bank that they're having to pay off anyway. So

561
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: this goes back to an earlier thing we talked about

562
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: before too, which was do banks run the world? Yes? Yes,

563
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: that you're you believe in this. I see the strings everywhere, man.

564
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of undoe influence there. But

565
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: it's you always seen that it's difficult outside of apparently Iceland,

566
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: it's difficult to regulate banking industries. But I will also

567
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: say that the World Bank, in my opinion, in my opinion,

568
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: the World Bank has hard working people and just like

569
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: in any other industry, and they're trying they're trying to

570
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: make the world a better place. But if we look

571
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: at the future of poverty, right, and we ask ourselves

572
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: why there is a larger concentration of poverty in certain

573
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 1: places like Sub Saharan Africa is actually gaining more impoverished

574
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: people while the rest of the world is doing a

575
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: little bit better and better and better. And so I'm wondering,

576
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: and I'm asking you guys, and I'm asking you listening

577
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: as well, do you think that the World Bank is

578
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: a tool of some sort of overarching thing? Right? We

579
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: talked about in our video episode. We talked about different

580
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: authors who alleged that the World Bank is um we're

581
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: hand in hand with intelligence agencies like well builded damn

582
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: for you or you could probably do a better villain voice.

583
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: I had a damn vile I was just kind of

584
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: piggybacking on, you know, source material. It's a fascinating point.

585
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: We're virgin on here. However, because the World Bank has

586
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: represents excuse me, over a hundred and eighty countries, however,

587
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: it's controlled by a small amount of countries. The president

588
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: of the World Bank traditionally has always been American, and

589
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: the president of the i m F traditionally has always

590
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: been European. And a governing structure of the bank is

591
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 1: not democratic. They have this. They have this an interesting

592
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: idea because the funding members of the Bank worked out

593
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: a deal where it's one dollar one vote. Therefore, the

594
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: more money you contribute to the World Bank, the more

595
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: control you have over the oreganization. That's why China and

596
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: India might represent round the world's population but only have

597
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: five percent of the votes at the World Bank, whereas

598
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: six countries the US, Canada, Japan, Germany, the UK and

599
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: France control about of the decision making power and it's

600
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: not required to reveal its internal documents. Again, if it was,

601
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: but it doesn't have to. Uh. Those why I keep talking.

602
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: I've got to apologize for this. I keep talking about

603
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: the loans as though there is one kind of loan,

604
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: but there are three. The first is a project loan,

605
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: and that's where we talked about damns and power plants

606
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 1: and copper minds and stuff. Uh. The second is a

607
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: sector adjustment loan. That's that's where they support specific policy

608
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: changes in an industrial sector, for instance. And then the third,

609
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: the one that you hear a lot about when it

610
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: comes to those changes of the regulars, d regulation, privatization,

611
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: and so on, that is the structural Adjustment program and

612
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: short term support and exchange for major policy changes. So

613
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, I know this is kind of dry,

614
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,959
Speaker 1: but this ties into the future of poverty because we're

615
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: looking at a world within your lifetime, listeners, We're looking

616
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: at a world where it's quite possible, it's quite possible

617
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: that poverty becomes eliminated if if this group is actually

618
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: pursuing their goals, you know what I mean. And there

619
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 1: are a lot of NGOs trying to do the same thing,

620
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: non governmental organizations. But what do you guys think, Like,

621
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: do you think the critics have some grain of truth

622
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: in their criticism? Is the World Bank a wolf in

623
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: sheep's clothing? Well, there's a lot of fear about global

624
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: organizations like this. And we we spoke about the Millennial

625
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: Development Goals that the U n had put forward in

626
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 1: two thousand that lasted up until two thousand fift and

627
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 1: this year they got replaced by the Sustainable Development Goals.

628
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: And I'm just gonna read some of these off just

629
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: to give you an idea of the let's say, the

630
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: goals for good that are being put forth by the

631
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: United Nations. One no poverty, that's the one that we're

632
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 1: talking about, and that was number one at the top

633
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: of the Millennium Development Goals, which was and back then

634
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: it was eradicate extreme poverty and hunger. Now it's just

635
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 1: no poverty. We're gonna kill it. It's done. Uh. Number

636
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: two is zero hunger, which is really good. Uh. They

637
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: want to look at good health and well being, quality education,

638
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: gender equality, clean water and sanitation, all the way down

639
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: to climate action, um reduced inequality throughout the world. I mean,

640
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: these are some huge, lofty goals, but as we you

641
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 1: could see from the Millennium Development Goals, if they did

642
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: pretty well at least, who knows if they the u

643
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: N actually did all of the things to cause this

644
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 1: in the World Bank, but still having a global organization

645
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: with those goals and and actively pursuing to rid the

646
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: world of these terrible things, I mean, I think it's

647
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: pretty great. But on the same side and the other

648
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: side of that coin, I think it is probably not

649
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: going to be very effective on a global scale. But yeah,

650
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: and is are these institutions make changing the world or

651
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: are they just enforcing a neo called a colonial status quo? Right,

652
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: that's a huge possible kind of how it feels to

653
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: me in some sense. Yeah, I guess it's just sometimes

654
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: it's just a matter of sort of shifting the status

655
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 1: quo so that it suits those in power and sort

656
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: of like allowing them to make it malleable to their

657
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: own ends. And you know, I mean, I hate to

658
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: sound cynical, but a lot of times when I see

659
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: these big organizations trying to make these big change is

660
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: and they involve you know, kind of backroom deal type scenarios,

661
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: it makes me wonder, you know, where, um their motivations

662
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:13,919
Speaker 1: actually lie. Yeah, yeah, that's true. And then also it's

663
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: it's tough to guess because there's obsfurcation of the internal documents, right,

664
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: And it's also tough to guess because it's a new

665
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: kind of thing. It's it's it's one of the first

666
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: kind of entities doing this for this long, right. But

667
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: they've been accused of, uh doing They've been accused of

668
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: pursuing ulterior motives repeatedly. And then I'm sure there are

669
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: multiple sides of the story because of course the bank

670
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: is dealing with corrupt places at the time, but the

671
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: allegation that the bank itself is corrupt is uh, I'm

672
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: just gonna say it's not crazy. It's not crazy. That

673
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: people with a lot of power would play some underhanded

674
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: I mean, and corruption begets more corruption. You know, if

675
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,919
Speaker 1: you're working in a situation where you can get away

676
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: with something because of you know, the status quo of

677
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: that particular situation, certain type of person might take advantage. Yeah,

678
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: that's a good point too, So I guess though, we

679
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 1: have to look at it in a great balanced scale.

680
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: On one side we have the good that's being done right,

681
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,399
Speaker 1: and then on the other side we have a lot

682
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,720
Speaker 1: of sketchy stuff. So when do we make the call

683
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 1: about when? When do we make the call about whether

684
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: this is a good thing or not. And listeners, especially

685
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: if you're listening in foreign country, what is your country's

686
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: experience these institutions? We want to hear from you and

687
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: just show you how much. Oh man, I wish we

688
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: had time to check all of that listener mail from

689
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: the last episode. Oh we have, we got so much.

690
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: I actually have a list of all of the people

691
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: who wrote to us such a good I'm just gonna

692
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 1: read them out at some point. Do we have a selection.

693
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: I have one in particular that I want to shout out.

694
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: But thank you everyone for writing a writing to us

695
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: about sleep sleep paralysis, night terrors, shadow people, all of

696
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: that stuff, all kinds of just really interesting stories about

697
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 1: sleep and what you experience when it happens. Because sleep

698
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: to us and dreaming, I think the three of us

699
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: in this room, it's a fascinating subject already. Just the

700
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: idea that we we deactivate for hours and hours and

701
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: hours at a time every day. It's still weird to us.

702
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 1: But thank you Jessica, Liz, jama A, j Dwayne, Andy, Michael,

703
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 1: Sean and Sean O, Vanessa, Tom Ellie, Jasper, George Lacy,

704
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: and finally Yahya, who did something that I'm not aware

705
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: anyone else has done so far on this show. It's

706
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: a first. She sent us a voice message. She was

707
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 1: listening to our show in her car and she pulled

708
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: over to the side the road and decided to record

709
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 1: a message and sent it to us. I thought that

710
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: was pretty awesome, So, uh, we're just gonna go ahead

711
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: and listen to the story that she's telling about an

712
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: experience she had back in the day. Hey guys, So

713
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: I was listening to the Sleep Paralysis podcast and while driving,

714
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: and I heard the story about the guy sleeping with

715
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 1: the two girls and then um having a weird little episode.

716
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: And I remember a while ago kind of a similar

717
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: thing happening to me. So I used to live in

718
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: my family in a two story house and then there

719
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: was like, um kind of like three stairs that go

720
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: down to a lower level, I guess you would say.

721
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: And my brother, my older brother, he lived in the

722
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: room down at the lower level of the house. Now

723
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,959
Speaker 1: he kept complaining about, like, weird thing is happening to him,

724
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: or he would uh, you know, wake up. And one

725
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: at one point he's seen like something extremely like demonic

726
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 1: in the corner of his room and and I was

727
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,439
Speaker 1: just like, you know, I don't believe you at all,

728
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 1: Like this is just crazy. I don't believe you. And

729
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: the way his room was set up was there was

730
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: like a family room downstairs, and then um, right connected

731
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: to the family room was his bedroom. And I remember

732
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: being like half asleep on the couch and he looks

733
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: over at me and he's like, hey, um, are you

734
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: sure you want to sleep down here? And I'm like,

735
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: uh yeah, why And he's just like, um okay, well

736
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,879
Speaker 1: something's gonna happen. And I'm just like, um okay, like this,

737
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: I just was not believing him at all. In any

738
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: of the stories. He said. Anyways, I fall asleep, and

739
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: I don't know how long I was asleep for, but

740
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: I do remember like opening my eyes and it was

741
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: it was a weird sensation to like be awake but

742
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: not be awake and not be able to move or

743
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: get up when you want to get up. It was

744
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: just the weirdest feeling. It's never happened to me before.

745
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: And I remember, Um, this man like standing um behind me,

746
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: so I could hear him. I could hear where he

747
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: was standing, but I couldn't see him. And he was saying,

748
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 1: you know, I know you, Um, you don't know me.

749
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: A lot of people they say, like when they see me,

750
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: it's really um. It's frightens them and they get really scared.

751
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 1: And then he said, I've been watching you for a while,

752
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: and he showed me like a bunch of pictures of me,

753
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: like just doing everyday things or like getting out of

754
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,919
Speaker 1: the shower, like really weird. And then he goes, so

755
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 1: do you want to look at me? And I I

756
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: said no, I don't, why would I want to? And

757
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: I just remember like squeezing my eyes shut and like

758
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: feeling the weirdest force like on my head, like pushing

759
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: me down and trying to like open my eyes, and

760
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: it was like the scariest um, like I'm shaking thinking

761
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,240
Speaker 1: about it right now, and then I just kept trying

762
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: to resist, and finally like I woke up and I

763
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: ran upstairs and now, um, look my mother up at

764
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: the time, and I told her what had happened, and

765
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,959
Speaker 1: she's just like shocked, doesn't know how to react, and

766
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: she's like, well, let's go get your brother and see

767
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: how he's doing. And while we were walking downstairs, he's

768
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: rushing upstairs and he's freaking out, and you know, we're like,

769
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 1: what happened? And he's like, I just remember um sleeping

770
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: and just feeling completely drained. And I could hear in

771
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: the next room a man uh talking to Yahya about something.

772
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: I couldn't understand what she was he was saying, but

773
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: I heard how like deep his voice wasn't it freaked

774
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: me out. I just was drained of energy. And then

775
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: I write, when I colde wake up, I woke up

776
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: and ran upstairs. So take it how you want it,

777
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: but that was the weirdest, weirdest thing that has ever

778
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 1: happened to me. And I think that what really validated

779
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: it for me was the fact that my brother also

780
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: heard what was going on in the other room, So

781
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: I know something happened that night. I don't know exactly

782
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: what it was, but I just wanted to say, like,

783
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: I don't do drugs or like mess, I really don't

784
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: even drink, So I I just thought I would get

785
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 1: it out there and it was. Um, it's kind of

786
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: a weird story, so hard for me to like write

787
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: it in an email on the side of the road,

788
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: but I thought i'd let you guys know I love

789
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: your podcast, keep it up, thank you. Uh yeah, that

790
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. It seems like a creepy experience. I

791
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't I wouldn't want to go through that. I wonder

792
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: if it happened any other time though, or something similar

793
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: to that. She says it that was pretty much it,

794
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: But I don't know. Do you think the brother was

795
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: messing with her? Oh? I don't know, but maybe we'll

796
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 1: hear from the brother also. Also, I love the I

797
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: love that people are sending in audio files. If you,

798
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: if you would like to do that, we'd love to

799
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: hear from you. So I guess I want to follow

800
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: that up. I've got three Um, Okay, I guess no mind. Yeah.

801
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 1: The first one is much along the same lines of

802
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: of Yah Yah's audio message. UM, I just kind of

803
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 1: wanted to show that we got a pretty cool collection

804
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: that looked at both that that's sort of the good

805
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: examples of both sides of this sleep paralysis discussion. Yeah,

806
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: a little variety. So here's one um from Jessica and

807
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: she describes her first experiences. Thus, first time I experienced

808
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: sleep paralysis, UM. I was taking a nap after class

809
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: and preparing for a late shift at work when I

810
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: quote awoke end quote. I couldn't move, but I could

811
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:27,959
Speaker 1: see my room as I was laying in my bed.

812
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: I was on my side and could see multiple white

813
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: shadows were quickly floating across my room, back and forth

814
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: and disappearing through the walls. I was petrified and wanted

815
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: to run and scream, but could not move and had

816
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: trouble breathing. At this point in my life, I had

817
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 1: no idea what had happened and figured it was just

818
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 1: a very, very vivid nightmare. A few weeks later, I

819
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: had a similar episode. I was in the same exact position,

820
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: except this time there was an attict door in the

821
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 1: ceiling of my room. The attic door partly opened and

822
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,919
Speaker 1: things were being thrown out of it, and I even

823
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,919
Speaker 1: saw an arm again, very terrifying, and I couldn't move

824
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: or make a sound, and my chest felt tight. The

825
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: recurring thing something on your chest, pressing down, pushing the

826
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 1: life out of you. Now that I look back at

827
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 1: the situation, I don't know what to think of it.

828
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 1: There were so many factors, scientific and supernatural that affected

829
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: my life. So now I want to say I kind

830
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,959
Speaker 1: of wanted to follow up Matts with this one, sort

831
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: of that fear terror kind of scenario, and now I've

832
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,240
Speaker 1: got a couple that sort of show a different angle

833
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: on it. Um, largely because both of these folks report

834
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: very specific sleep brows of situations like we talked about,

835
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 1: but they are kind of at peace with them, and

836
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: I thought that was really interesting. So this first one

837
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,879
Speaker 1: comes from George, and UM, forgive me if I take

838
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: on a bit of a voice when I read this.

839
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: He was wonderful. He has wonderful, uh, very compelling prose here, gentlemen,

840
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: I like it. I understand you live busy lives, so

841
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,720
Speaker 1: I will endeavor to keep this concise. My name is George,

842
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: and I assumed from the episode on sleep paralysis you

843
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 1: may be interested in the first hand story on the matter.

844
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: I'll start by saying this has happened to me many times,

845
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: and I'm a firm believer. It is just a crazy

846
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: and amazing interplay between our brain and body. Some of

847
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: my experiences have seemed very dark or sinister in nature,

848
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: but it was only in the very beginning I thought

849
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 1: they were otherworldly. I'm not gonna read the whole thing

850
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 1: is pretty long email, but I'm going to read his

851
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: first example here, the first occurrence I can remember in

852
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: sharp detail. I was twenty three years old, living in

853
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: San Diego and attending my son Art Technical School, having

854
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: been in the U. S. Navy for just over a year.

855
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: It was like most of the classic stories. I felt

856
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: fully awake and unable to move when I came to

857
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: sense a dark intent in the room with me. I

858
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 1: could feel something crawling up from the foot of my

859
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 1: bed and very suddenly and intensely pressing down on my chest,

860
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: as if trying to force all the air for my

861
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: lungs and crush me. The feeling of being completely immobile,

862
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: suffering what you think is impending death but at the

863
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: same time, fully mentally awake and screaming in your mind

864
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: is such a foreign experience in our mundane daily lives

865
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: that it borders on the unexplainable. Simply said, it is

866
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: terrifying on a level that makes you feel like a

867
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 1: little child again, hoping your mother or father will rush

868
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: in and chase away the darkness. Wonderful. Here's where it

869
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: gets interesting. To sum it all up, I am one

870
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 1: of those weirdos that actually enjoys when this happens to me.

871
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: George's words, not mine. I quickly dropped the notion that

872
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: I was being haunted and grew to see it more

873
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: as an extension of a lucid dreaming state, living in

874
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 1: a place and time where everything has a logical purpose

875
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 1: and science rules the day. It's fun to have the

876
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: rules of reality bent a little because your brain thinks

877
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: you were awake when you're really in a sleep Limbo.

878
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 1: I love the podcast, respectfully, George. I love that, George,

879
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: because it makes me feel less bad about wanting to

880
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 1: experience it. And I think it's interesting because he he has,

881
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: He sees both sides of the coin through experience. You know,

882
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: he first has it and and he um can't explain

883
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: it away, and it's probably leaning towards more of it

884
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 1: being like a real supernatural event of some kind. And

885
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,720
Speaker 1: then the more he experiences it, the more it starts

886
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: to fascinate him. And then the more he realizes this is,

887
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: you know, an extension of his mind and he is

888
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: experiencing it and it's something that you wouldn't normally experience.

889
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,280
Speaker 1: So I, you know, he's not taking that for granted.

890
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 1: I think that's pretty awesome. It's beautifully rational. And so

891
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: for my second one UM, this person asked to remain anonymous,

892
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: so I'm just going to read one of his or

893
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: her experiences. I had my first shadow person experience when

894
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: I was about fifteen at a summer camp. I was

895
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:37,839
Speaker 1: sleeping in the top bunk in a room with eight

896
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: other people, and suddenly I opened my eyes and saw

897
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: a black shadow floating over me. I was startled, but

898
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: unlike the panicked reaction of many others, my next feeling

899
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: was a complete certainty that this entity was watching over

900
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 1: me like a mother and making sure I was okay.

901
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 1: A second later, it dissolved away and I went back

902
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: to sleep. Another night at camp, I woke up very

903
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: suddenly and saw a similar shadowy figure in the opposee

904
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: at corner of the room. I still get these ones

905
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: in a while, and it's strange, but I'm not afraid

906
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: at all. I don't be afraid. I don't think so either.

907
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you can look at it so

908
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: many different ways you can. I like this kind of

909
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 1: Guardian Angel version of it. I mean, you know, I mean,

910
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:18,399
Speaker 1: even if it's associated with kind of a negative experience,

911
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting to be able to see both

912
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 1: sides of something like that. That's why I liked George

913
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: and this anonymous person's letters. Wow, you know, I when

914
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: we did this episode, I didn't know that it would

915
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 1: strike a chord with so many folks out there listening.

916
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: Some of the most YouTube comments we've ever gotten. Really yeah,

917
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 1: of people just saying, hey, yes, I've experienced this. I

918
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 1: remember when this happened to me the first time. And

919
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 1: as far as the podcast goes, the largest number of

920
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 1: letters that I've seen generated from a single episode. And

921
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: unfortunately now is the time Matt, Noel and I have

922
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 1: to mosey on out of here. Well, I don't know

923
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: are we gonna mosey We're gonna sneak. No, I'm gonna

924
00:53:57,719 --> 00:53:59,720
Speaker 1: drive home as fast as I can. There is poop

925
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: in my baby's diaper and I can smell it from here.

926
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,919
Speaker 1: You I need to change that diaper, you guys, that's

927
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 1: so weird, man, what I mean? I get it, but

928
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: it's just you know, you guys don't have that. You

929
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: need to get some sleep, buddy. I've been changing. I've

930
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: been changing my own diapers for years. But on a

931
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: on a serious note, thank you so much to everybody listen.

932
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: Thank you even more to everybody wrote in. If you

933
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: would like to send an audio file of a story,

934
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: then please do. Uh we we'd love to check it out.

935
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 1: All the stuff we said earlier applies and the most

936
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: important part of the show. Do you have a topic

937
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: idea for us? Is there something that you think is stuff?

938
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 1: They don't want you to know this? This is your

939
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: show as much as it is ours, and all of

940
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 1: our best suggestions come from you. So go ahead and

941
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 1: find us on the internet. We're on Facebook, We're on Twitter,

942
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: every like, every follow gets us a little a little

943
00:54:55,600 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 1: bit further away from being fired. Yes, absolutely, orkn ospiracy

944
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 1: stuff on most of those places. You can find us

945
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 1: at stuff they don't want you to know dot com.

946
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 1: And if you want to send us an email, especially

947
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,919
Speaker 1: with an attachment of an audio file, you can send

948
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 1: that to conspiracy at how stuff works dot com. From

949
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 1: more on this topic, another unexplained phenomenon, visit YouTube dot

950
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,479
Speaker 1: com slash conspiracy stuff. You can also get in touch

951
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: on Twitter at the handle at conspiracy stuff