1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of The Mark Moss Show, 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: where we talk about the intersection of politics, finance, and technology, 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: which bitcoin is at that intersection. I'm talking about the 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: decentralized revolution that is changing the world as we speak. 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: And I'm coming to you from Miami South Beach, Miami 6 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: for the Bitcoin Conference. Got about forty thou people descending 7 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: on this city to talk about some weird magic internet 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: money or something crazy like that. Right, And I'm joined 9 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: by Mark jeff Dovic. Jeff Dovic he's been writing in 10 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: a newsletter called The Crypto Capitalist, which I've been reading 11 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: and I've really been enjoying it. And you can find 12 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: him on Twitter at stunt Hope and Uh, Mark, thanks 13 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: for joining me today. Hey, Mark, it's great to meet you, 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: and I love your show, so it's a thrill to 15 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: be on it. Great. Yeah, I was looking forward to 16 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,319 Speaker 1: this conversation as well. So, um, you know one thing that, uh, 17 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: to understand bitcoin is difficult because it's so many things. 18 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: And do you have to know disciplines and philosophy and 19 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: game theory and motivation and monetary history and I mean politics, 20 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: all these different things. Right, you seem to be pretty 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: well versed in a lot of those things, which is 22 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: probably why you're grasping it pretty well, right, But I 23 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 1: love that. I what I would I really love about 24 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: it is it allows us to bring our sovereignty back, right, 25 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: to be able to control um our money and even 26 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: more than that, right because I mean money is changing 27 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: as we speak. But um, I was before we started recording, 28 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: I was making a comment my unpopular opinion that not 29 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: everything needs to be decentralized. Sorry for all your de 30 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: fibros out there. Um, Like, I recently bought an investment 31 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: property in Texas and I got a loan. I got 32 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 1: a loan, I locked in thirty year money at three 33 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: percent interest. Pretty good deal for me. I needed a 34 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: centralized entity to make sure that my credit was different 35 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: than your credit and give me a better rate than 36 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: your rate or something like that. And like somebody needed 37 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: to make that decision. It didn't need to be decentralized. 38 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: And I didn't want to have to overcollateralize that property 39 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: by a h I wanted to actually borrow eighty or 40 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: ninety percent of it, right. Um, So that's kind of 41 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: an opinion. So not everything needs to be decentralized. Um, 42 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: the money needs to be decentralized at least that's what 43 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: I think. Um. But but does the Internet That's one 44 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 1: thing I want to talk to you about today. Does 45 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: the Internet to meet need to be decentralized? Um? And 46 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the applications being built on the Internet. 47 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that? Well, the Internet as 48 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: we know it was designed to be a decentralized technology. Uh, 49 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: stack of protocols, right, The Internet stack is seven layers 50 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: going from the application layer down to the you know, 51 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: transport layer and uh, I actually can't remember all seven 52 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: of them off the top of my head. But ideal 53 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: in the naming layer, right, because my main company, Easy 54 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: d n S is like a domain name DNS company. 55 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: So if we started the top and work down, you 56 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: have like an I s P. You're in a service provider. 57 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: And then does the DNS sit on the next layer 58 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: below that? Well, so at the very top you've got 59 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: applications like Twitter and Facebook and the applications and the 60 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: webs Right, your I s P is going to sit 61 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: further down the stack because they're really just moving packets around, right, 62 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,679 Speaker 1: And that's the company that you sign up with, that's 63 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: your cox cable or what podcast and they're just giving 64 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: you the raw pipe and uh. And then between actually 65 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: that layer and the application layers, you have this this 66 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: naming layer where you don't want to memorize IP addresses 67 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: would be like akin to memorizing Bitcoin addresses. You can't 68 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: really do it. So you need this this translation mechanism 69 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: to go back and forth between IP addresses and human 70 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: memorable labels. And that is the DNS system Domain Name system, 71 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: and that is you know, sort of decentralized, but not 72 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: really because it's an inverted tree hierarchy, right you hear. 73 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: You have like one Mark Moss dot com. There's an 74 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: implicit dot at the end of that that no one 75 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: you don't really have to write, but that dot is 76 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: the root of the Internet naming system dot com. Nope, 77 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: the dot after the dot com. But nobody really writes 78 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: it because it's just a convention, Like all the machines 79 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: know it's there, so you don't have to put the 80 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: dot after the dot com. But at the top of 81 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: this tree, this inverted tree, there's the dot, and then 82 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: under that dot is calm and net and organ and 83 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: then these these um newer ones like website and support 84 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: and w TF and media and all of them, and 85 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: then underneath those, like every dot is another layer in 86 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: the tree, right, so underneath Calm is one Mark Moss 87 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: and then if you've got www or f t P 88 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: or mail, then that's underneath. So you have this inverted 89 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: tree hierarchy. So it's really at the end of the day, 90 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: it's kind of centralized because at every level of that tree. 91 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: I don't want to get too technical, but you know 92 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: what you call a zone cut. You can have a 93 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: different set of name servers that are servicing that level, 94 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: So you can have these nick like you could have 95 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: completely different entity handling one you know, one sub domain 96 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: under your domain, but everyone above you in the tree 97 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: can really exert influence on you all the way down. 98 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: So when someone tries to d platform a website, for example, 99 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: they can go to your I s P. They can 100 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: go to your web host. They can even go to 101 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: the registry and say take it out of the dot com. 102 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: So the the host would be where my website is hosted, 103 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 1: so Amazon Web Servers or something like that, that's the host, 104 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: so they could attack there, and then we have the 105 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: I s P, which is my Comcast or whatever, and 106 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 1: they could say, hey, don't route traffic to that i 107 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: P and then we use VPNs to get around that 108 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: can happen. Yeah, um, and then you would have then 109 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: the name server. I guess that's what you're talking about. 110 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: You can go to either the name server operators and 111 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: say stop resolving this name, or you can go to 112 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: the registry operator like a VERI sign or an aphilius 113 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: and say take this name right out of the zone. 114 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: So that means when somebody wants to go to my website, 115 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: um on one Mark moss um, so they type that 116 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: in and then the service then matches that and then 117 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: routes it to the the IP address. The IP address 118 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: if you've ever set up a router at your house, 119 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: you know what that is. But it's like a one 120 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: six eight dot one, dot one, do whatever, something like that. 121 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: So it would it would take my name and then 122 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: routed to that IP address. But if there's something that 123 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: gets in the in the middle of that that says 124 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: don't do that translation or there's nothing to look up 125 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: because of the zones the name has been pulled from 126 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: the zone, then you don't get there, right. So those 127 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: are some of the main attack vectors now in in China. 128 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: What's the Great Firewall of China. Um, you know, there's 129 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: no Google, no Facebook, no no Netflix, none of that. 130 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: But they still get around the Great Firewall of China, 131 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: right just using VPNs mostly yea. So it's mostly being 132 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: blocked at the I s P level there, the Internet 133 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: service provider they even So there's it's like an escalating 134 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: arms race because VPN providers will then get blocked, right 135 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: because the State apparatus is monitoring for new VPN services 136 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: and they monitor the the the address tables and that 137 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: sort of thing. So it's a constant back and forth. Okay, 138 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: so but most people use VPNs to get around the 139 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: I s P. So that seems to be the main 140 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: source of of of censorship, I guess. And then the 141 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: next would be the name. Now on the name, they 142 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: could not allow the name to route properly. But if 143 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: someone typed in my IP address directly, couldn't they still 144 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: get there? They could? Yeah, as long as the host 145 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: didn't take it down. Yeah, that's what happened with wiki 146 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: leaks back in two thousand ten. And uh, you know 147 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: that was the whole, the whole story that we got 148 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: embroiled in. But then they enough people knew the IP 149 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: addresses that they could still get to the website. So 150 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: to answer your original question, d n S is somewhat decentralized, 151 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: but there still is this like inverted tree centralized hierarchy 152 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: to it um, it's more I consider it more like 153 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: a federation then, like it's a federated hierarchy, not a 154 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: top down hierarchy. But I always used to say, you know, 155 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: when people would get up in arms about something that 156 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: happened at the DNS level and they'd say, we need 157 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: a decentralized d n S, I would always chirp in 158 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: from on high saying, you know, you can't do it 159 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: because it's an inverted tree hierarchy and there's you can't 160 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: d P two P DNS is impossible. And then Bitcoin 161 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 1: came along and it proved me wrong because then I realized, oh, 162 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: you know what, you don't have to have an inverted 163 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: tree hierarchy. You can use a decentralized ledger as the route, 164 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: and then you can pin things onto that decentralized ledger 165 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: and you would avoid name collisions. And so name coin 166 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: was an original like a very early UH fork of 167 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: Bitcoin that was experimenting that with that with the dot 168 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: bit t l D right. I don't know if they're 169 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 1: still going. There's been subsequent developments. There's Etherium Name Service 170 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: e n S, there's a handshake h n S unstoppable. 171 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 1: No one's done it right to bitcoin yet, but I 172 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: think I think there's a case for it. I think 173 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: it can happen. Yeah, we're talking about bitcoin. You listen 174 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: to the Mark Mo Show. I'm sitting down with Mark Jefftovic. 175 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: We will be back in just a minute. Do not 176 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: go away, all right, welcome back. You are listening to 177 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: the Mark Mo Show. We're talking about the decentralized revolution 178 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: that the world is going through right now. Of course, 179 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: bitcoin is spearheading that. I'm coming to you from Miami 180 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: Beach where I'm actually here for the Bitcoin conference, and 181 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: uh I'm going to be working the Bitcoin News desk. 182 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: I'm sitting down with Mark Jetovic. Now, before we took 183 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: the break, Mark, we were talking about this kind of 184 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: decentralized stack, and you're starting to get to the d 185 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: n S and I had asked you the d NS. 186 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: For those that are listening to do't understand, that's the 187 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: name domain name server service service service. So basically when 188 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: you type in my website name Mike one Mark Moss, 189 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: it will then route you to the IP address. And 190 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: I asked, if you just have the IP address, then 191 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: you said yes, that would still work. So that's kind 192 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: of how what happened with wiki leaks. You're giving that example. 193 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: I think that's kind of where we cut off. Yeah, 194 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: and the idea that I've been fooling with in the 195 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,599 Speaker 1: back of my mind for a while now, and I 196 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: kind of let it go, and lately I've been bringing 197 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: it back is you could use a decentralized ledger as 198 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: kind of like a side chain to the actual legacy 199 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: d n S system, so rather than UM, rather than UM. 200 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: A lot of these decentralized DNS projects are setting up 201 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: new top level domains. You've got dot ef, You've got 202 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: dot crypto and dot n f T and all of 203 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: these things. UM. I'm watching those innovations and I'm interested 204 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 1: in them, but I don't know what's going to happen. 205 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: If there's going to be another expansion in sort of 206 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: the legacy d n S world that's run by I 207 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: can this corporation out of California. What happens if someone 208 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: tries to go for dot crypto, there is it going 209 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: to clash with a decentralized dot crypto. But I have 210 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: an idea that I've been sort of noodling with in 211 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: my mind where you use a decentralized blockchain and you 212 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: use it to extend existing domain names. So let's say 213 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: one Mark Moss dot com gets d platformed because um, 214 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: you've said the wrong thing, you committed a thought crime, 215 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: or even you forget you forgot to renew your your 216 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: bill with your registrar. If if there are enough like 217 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 1: almost like Web three enabled devices out there, I just 218 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: use that as a catch phrase for like meta mask 219 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: and these things built in your browser that's sort of 220 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: new to look at a certain well, I can't see 221 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: Mark Moss dot com or one Mark Moss dot com 222 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 1: in the legacy t LD, but is it is there 223 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: a record for it on this bitcoin block chain or 224 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: this whatever name blockchain and then just kind of pick 225 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: it up from there and have the same sort of 226 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: root arounding it rooting around the legacy um inverted tree 227 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: and picking it up off the blockchain. That could be 228 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: something pretty interesting. Yeah, So you just need something else 229 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: that can point to it, that can re that can 230 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: kind of work as like a routing system. Um. You 231 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: mentioned web three. Um, and if we think about like 232 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: a web three or if we think about like n 233 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: f T S, which I don't talk a lot about 234 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: n f T s, but n f T S you 235 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: basically have UM something pointing to a record like a 236 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: hash in a in a chain. So is that kind 237 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 1: of something like that where it kind of points it 238 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: and it can kind of redirect or something. I think 239 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: domain names are the original n f T So when 240 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: I look at squiggly lines there, you know, psychedelic squares, 241 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: I don't understand that like I do sort of. I'm 242 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: sort of like the knuckle dragger that says it's a JPEG, 243 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: which is a big deal. But when I look at 244 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: a domain name, like every domain name is a unique 245 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: data structure unto itself. It's pointing different IP addresses that 246 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: has different layers, and they can be they can be 247 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: like a labyrinth, they can be very elaborate and complex things. 248 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: One single domain they're all running on the same protocol, 249 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: every single one of them is different. And I look 250 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 1: at that and I say, that's an n f T. 251 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: And so when I look at what n f T 252 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: s aspire to be like, forget the squiggly lines, look 253 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: at just um rights management, look at even single sign 254 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: on capabilities, look at just transmitting data in a decentralized way. 255 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:36,439 Speaker 1: About a uniform protocol that where each instance of it 256 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: is unique. Then I sort of look at that and 257 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: think n f T s could be like when you 258 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: look at it as a domain name, that could be 259 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: a very very powerful thing. That's sort of what I 260 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: was getting at when I was trying to describe that. 261 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 1: Look aside to a side chain to get your your 262 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: data from. Yeah, and n f T just stands for 263 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: a non fungible token, so obviously it can pretty much 264 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: most things in the world. They're non fungible, right, They're 265 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: not one to one so um, it's very broad generalization. 266 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: But getting back to them, not everything needs to be decentralized, 267 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: and so I guess, like I said, my thought process 268 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: was like, the money needs to be decentralized. But the 269 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: Internet is already somewhat centralized decentralized. So obviously Twitter, we're 270 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: all on Twitter and we're very it's very centralized, and 271 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: of course they can and can't censor that if they want, YouTube, etcetera. 272 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: But is the Internet itself decentralized enough that we could 273 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: use it. Yeah, I think it is. I mean, even 274 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: when you look at the name servers that operate just 275 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: the root t l D, you think, well, that's a 276 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: single point of failure. Well no, it's actually served by 277 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: thirteen name servers. So you say, okay, well that's decentralized, 278 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: but that's still only thirteen. Well, each thirteen of those 279 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: name servers is really just a name server instance themselves. 280 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: They can be multiple name servers. There's a protocol in 281 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: DNS I won't borry you with. It's called any cast. 282 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: It's basically multiple servers around the world answer to the 283 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: same IP address. So each one of those thirteen route 284 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: name servers are themselves in any cast constellations. So at 285 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: the end of the day, that dot root zone isn't 286 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: served by thirteen name servers. It's served by thousands of 287 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: name servers. And so you do have like you have 288 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: that structure, but it's still decentralized enough. And that's why 289 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: I used the phrase federation earlier on, because you have 290 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: all these disparent entities. Those name servers are run by 291 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: everyone from the the U S Military to IBM to 292 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: nonprofit organizations and so they're all just sort of running 293 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: miss same p It's it's kind of similar to bitcoin mining. Okay. 294 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: I think about one of the first examples that stands 295 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: out to me of this you know day and age 296 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: that we're in with censorship was when Alex Jones got 297 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: de platformed. Right, he just got wiped off the face 298 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: in concerts. So like all the platforms kind of came 299 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: together and at every single account that he had. Um, 300 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: but they don't stopped him. His website is still up, 301 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: He's still getting millions of views on every show that 302 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: he does. Then he just broadcasting from his own So 303 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: like even as hard as he was d platformed, Um, 304 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: sure you can't find him on YouTube or you can't 305 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: find him on Google, but he's still they're kind of 306 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: a thing. Yeah, D platforming doesn't work D platforming for 307 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: the most part. Um, you may be able to take 308 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: out a single instance of a person in a D platforming, 309 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: but a lot of times that person can benefit from 310 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: D platforming or come back stronger. I mean that. Yeah, 311 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: you've got the book right there. I just handed to 312 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: or audio only, but you know chapter four of that 313 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: book is does D platforming even work. In the conclusion 314 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: I came to was it doesn't. So Mark is Uh. 315 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: I'm joined by Mark Jeff Dovic and I'm Mark Moss. 316 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mark Moss Show. Um, and Mark 317 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: just handed me a book called Unassailable and it says 318 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: protect yourself from d platform attacks can soil culture and 319 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: other online disasters, which is pretty important because in today's 320 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: day and age, we're in a digital age. You know. 321 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: I thought about like Facebook ads, Like if you run 322 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: paid Facebook ads, which I've done quite a bit of 323 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: in the past. Um, it's so hard. I mean, they 324 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: banned your account for everything. And if you have an 325 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: online business and you can't advertise online, you're effectively out 326 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: of business and they can just shut you down. So 327 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: it's something I think about a lot. I want to 328 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: dig more into this actual book, and let's talk about 329 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: protecting yourself from d platform attacks because honestly, that's something 330 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 1: I really worry about. That's something I really worry about, 331 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: So I'd love to hear more about that. Um, you're 332 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: listening to the Mark Moa Show. We're talking about the 333 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: decentralized revolution that's being led by bitcoin. Um, we're talking 334 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: about how the world is changing from that. I'm at 335 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 1: the Bitcoin Conference in Miami recording with Mark Jeff Dvic 336 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: and Uh, we're gonna talk more about protecting yourself from 337 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: d platform attacks, cancel culture, and other online disasters when 338 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: we get back, So don't go away, all right, Welcome back. 339 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mark Moa Show. We are talking 340 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: about bitcoin and the decentralized revolution in the way it 341 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: is changing the world. UM joined today with by Mark 342 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: Jeff Tovic. We are in Miami for the Bitcoin Conference, 343 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: and we're talking about I made the unpopular opinion to 344 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: some people last night at a party that not everything 345 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: needs to be decentralized, the money needs to be decentralized, 346 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: and we're talking about the need. Does the Internet need 347 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: to be decentralized or is it? And so that's what 348 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 1: we've been talking about. Before the break and before we 349 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: took off, Mark, we talked about this book, this Unassailable 350 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: that you just wrote, UM, and it says protect yourself 351 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: from d platform attacks. So we just talked about Alex Jones. 352 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: He was d platformed and it's something that I think 353 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: a lot about because my you know, if they shut 354 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: down my YouTube channel, I mean man, that's that's gonna 355 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: be devastating for me. And uh, you know, if if 356 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: I was d platformed, it would be devastating. So how 357 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: do we protect ourselves from platform d platform attacks? So 358 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: one of the things you have to pay attention to, 359 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: I mean, the subtext to this today's conversation is is 360 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: the Internet decentralized. The protocols are decentralized. The protocols describe 361 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: a way to to operate in a decentralized fashion. The 362 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: platforms are centralized. So we're in this world where I 363 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: think the big defining tension, you know, you call it 364 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: the decentralized revolution. It's between centralization decentralization over here in 365 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: the Internet spaces, between protocols and platforms. Right, email is 366 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: a protocol. The most important thing you can do is 367 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 1: capture the email address of all of your users, your customers, 368 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,439 Speaker 1: your followers. Get that email address when you're on Twitter, 369 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: when you're on YouTube. Those people aren't your customers, they're 370 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: not your followers, they're not your subscribers. Their YouTube's and 371 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: they let you have access to them provided your plane 372 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: by their rules. We call it a market, and we 373 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: say it's the list you own versus the list you rent, right, yeah, yeah, 374 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: and there's there's various different guys is for that. It's 375 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: you know, James tramp Co calls it own the race course. 376 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: I always loved that phrase, and so um you want 377 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: to use those platforms like Twitter and YouTube and Facebook 378 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: almost as a lead gen right. The number one goal 379 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: for every follower you get on those platforms get them 380 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: back to your website. Get their email address, right, That's 381 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,439 Speaker 1: that's number one. Because anybody can stand up an email 382 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: server anywhere in the world, provided your following certain best practices, 383 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: you can send email to your subscribers as long as 384 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: you're not using Gmail, because Gmail is a centralized application 385 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: of it as a platform. The platform mail Chimp is 386 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: a platform. Mail Chimp is a platform that specializes you 387 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: sending your list, but they're going to monitor your content 388 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: and if you send them the wrong content, they're going 389 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: to shut you down. I got kicked off a mail 390 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: chump early on when I was writing my cryptocurrency research newsletter. 391 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: I was using mail Chump and they shut me down. 392 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: They saw I was using words crypto or whatever, and 393 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: they kicking off. Clavio did the same for us on 394 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: an automated and We had like a multi thousand dollars 395 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: spend per month with them over on easy d n 396 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: us where we write our access is easy Weekly Technology Digest. 397 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: We're a technology company. How do you write about technology 398 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 1: without saying the word bitcoin in it? Right, So they 399 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: shut us down automatically. So we move to a system 400 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: called maudic m A U T I C. That's not 401 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,959 Speaker 1: a plug, that's an open source platform. Right. You can 402 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: download it for free. You set it up on a 403 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: commodity VPS anywhere in the world, and it's like a 404 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: mail chimp or in a Weber on your own server. 405 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: And so that's that's what this book advocates. It's like, 406 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: you take as much control over every aspect of your operations, 407 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: and you put it on a resource that is under 408 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: your own domain name, and you give some specifics like that. Yeah, 409 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: it's mentioned there in the book, so email being one 410 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: of them. So you can take control of your email 411 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: that's the list you own, not that you rent. And 412 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: then you can actually have your own uh server to 413 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: send out your own emails, as opposed to a platform 414 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: like Gmail that could censor you. Yeah, exactly, and that 415 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: and so I mean I talk, I mean that book 416 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: actually isn't new that came out a couple of years ago. 417 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about doing a revision for it because every 418 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: at the time I wrote the book, I thought I've 419 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 1: missed the boat, I've hit Pete cancel culture, and it's 420 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: all going to do. Yeah. Right, I kind of missed 421 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: that call. And uh so now I think I've got 422 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: to update it. Especially I've got to I've got a 423 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: beef out this section on financial decentralization and um, you know, uh, 424 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,719 Speaker 1: PayPal stripe. All of those guys are centralized, especially with 425 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 1: what happened with the credit card companies when they decide 426 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: that your persona non grata. And again, like the Alex 427 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,919 Speaker 1: Jones thing, they seem to act in concert. When you 428 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: come under the gun, you come under everyone's gun at 429 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: the same time. Yeah. Yesterday, Um, I was at there's 430 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: a bank Bitcoin venture fund, Trammel Venture Partners tv P. 431 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: I'm an I'm an advisor for the fund UM and 432 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: they had a whole investor day yesterday. So I was 433 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: there all day and they had several of the companies 434 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: that are in the fund that they're invested in to 435 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 1: come and talk. One of them is called Impervious. Yeah, 436 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: you've heard of that, and they've built they they said, hey, look, 437 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: we were thinking about buld our own operating system, but 438 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: we realized that about eight percent of the time is 439 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: spent in the browser, so we're just gonna make our 440 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: own browser. And they made their own browser and then 441 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: built into the browser it has Zoom but without Zoom 442 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 1: and so directly from the browser, I can click on 443 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: Zoom and you and I could do a video conference. 444 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: But it's going peer to peer. Yeah, it's probably using 445 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 1: Jetsy or something like that as well, So it's like 446 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: a decentralized video conferencing protocol. Yeah, and but but it 447 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 1: goes directly peer to peer as opposed to going through 448 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: any servers or whatever. And then they have so they 449 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 1: have the Zoom and then they have messagings. Then we 450 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: can communicate peer to peer, and then they have Google Docs. 451 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: But without Google, it's just docs. But that we can 452 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: collab on and stuff. There's there's every So people just 453 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: don't know these things exist. And so in my main business, 454 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 1: and these are the things that the Googles of the world, 455 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: the platforms have used, and people just didn't realize that 456 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: that we could just use it without them, right, you 457 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: can cut out the middleman, right, the centralizer. And so 458 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: like at easy d n S, we don't use Slack 459 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: because Slack is centralized. We use a system called matter 460 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: most again, so it's open source, you download it, you 461 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: put it on your own server, right, and and so 462 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: you're not going through this centralized system. Um, there's open 463 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: office and liber Office instead of Microsoft Office. There's like 464 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: I mentioned, jets instead of Zoom. It's all of this 465 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: stuff is happening, and there's it's accelerating. So you mentioned 466 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: I think we were talking about the in China and 467 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: the China the China file wall, and it's like this 468 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: game is like almost like a cat and mouse game. 469 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: So like, um, the state, if you will, you know, 470 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: puts measures in to try to control the restrict things, 471 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: and then entrepreneurs kind of move to kind of push 472 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 1: back on that. Is that kind of how you see 473 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: that working? Yeah, pretty much. Um, there's a never ending 474 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: first in China, I think, to get outside information and 475 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: as long as that demand is there, people are going 476 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 1: to be coming along to provide mechanisms to get around it. 477 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: But isn't I guess the kind of the point that 478 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: I've been asking and it seems like the answer is that, um, 479 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: we don't necessarily to invent new things. The Internet already 480 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: allows for those things. We just have to realize that 481 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 1: we can actually access to things without the centralized platforms. 482 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: And so now we're just having to kind of relearn 483 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: how to use some of the tools that are already there. 484 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,959 Speaker 1: You just have to, um, you just have to find it. 485 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: You have to just do the research and read up 486 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: on it and get outside these silos of mainstream you know, 487 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: narrative and information, and then you're going to find out 488 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: that there's a whole universe out there. I mean, in 489 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: a in a way, the cryptocurrency revolution is just the 490 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: tip of the iceberg. This is happening everywhere. It is 491 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: a revolution. Yeah, yeah, And you know it's a it's 492 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: a it's a constant trade off between convenience and security 493 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: or convenience, you know, whatever it is. And like, um, 494 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: you know, I think we all understand how bad this 495 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: iPhone is in my pocket to carry around, but I'm 496 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: still waiting for my librum to come in. I ordered 497 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: him like three years ago. But the thing is, though, 498 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: is like I remember as a kid, like watching the 499 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: Jetsons and like I want a robot clean to my house. 500 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: I want to like, we'll just speak to a robot 501 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:13,479 Speaker 1: of my house. I have have to do everything, So I 502 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: want the technology, but I don't want to weaponized against me. Yeah, 503 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: I mean the things like the Alexa and the Hey 504 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: Google and all that and and you know, all my 505 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: normy friends and family use it and swear by it, 506 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: and I'm like, get that crop out of my house. 507 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: Like there's I would love. I would just absolutely love 508 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: to be able to say, hey, you know, Siri, like 509 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: you know, make me a sandwich and uh and find 510 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: out what's going on. But it's does it have to 511 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: go back to Amazon, the quarters, the whole point and 512 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: come out It doesn't have to. I mean, there's got 513 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: to be a way to decentralize that, and I'm sure 514 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: someone's going to do it at some point. I've I've 515 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: asked some friends that set that those stuff up. They say, 516 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: there are some systems you can pay for that do 517 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: similar things, but they don't. But you pay a lot 518 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 1: of money for him, because if you don't pay for 519 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: the product, that you are the product. Right you're listening 520 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: to the Mark Mo Show. We're talking about bitcoin and 521 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 1: the decentralized Revolution. We're talking specifically, I'm sitting down with 522 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: Mark Jeff Jeff Dovic UM talking about his book Unassailable, 523 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: how to Protect yourself from d platform attacks, which is 524 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 1: something that I'm concerned with. Bitcoin, the decentralized revolution the 525 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: Internet is allowing us to do just that. UM. Coming 526 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: to you from Bitcoino Conference. I'm gonna be right back 527 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: with Mark with a little bit more in a second, 528 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: So don't go away, all right, Welcome back. You're listening 529 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: to the Mark mo Show. We're talking about Bitcoin, the 530 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 1: decentralized Revolution, and how it's changing the world as we speak. 531 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: You know, one of the big things about decentralization is 532 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: removing the power, the centralized power that controls us, so 533 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: we can have more power and freedom into our own 534 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: sovereign lives. And bitcoin is enabling that. UM. Bitcoin is 535 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: enabling that for the money, which, as I like to 536 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: always make the case that there is no freedom without 537 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:58,479 Speaker 1: freedom of payments. UM. But you know, I'm joined by 538 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: Mark Jeff Toovic we're here talking in Miami for the 539 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: Bitcoin Conference. UM. So without the freedom to payment, I 540 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: have I have no freedom. Uh. Specifically in the American 541 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: Constitution we're guaranteed freedom of speech, but today's day and age, 542 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: I need a computer or phone really to get speech. 543 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I have to print a pamphlet or I 544 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: have to build a website, and so something I have 545 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: to I can talk into the wind, I suppose, but 546 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: that's not gonna do much good, right, and so I 547 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: need that freedom of payment. Um. And so then we've 548 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: been talking about the Internet, which is that main kind 549 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: of medium of communication I suppose, which is basically open 550 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: and free, but it's been co opted by the central entities, 551 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: and so we're talking about ways to get around that. 552 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: He wrote a book called Unassailable How to Protect Yourself 553 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: from d Platform Attacks. UM. In the book, you talk 554 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: about how cancel culture has been happening through the ages. 555 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: So is this are you Are you trying to say 556 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: this is not something new that we're dealing with. It 557 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: isn't new. I mean there's always there's always a certain 558 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: kind of mindset that thinks they have the right to 559 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: tell other people how to live. Right. Why why it's 560 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: wrong with those people? I know? I mean because I 561 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: always think, when I really thought about it, I thought, 562 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: at the root component of all this, all disagreements about anything. 563 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: Are really a difference in priorities? Right? If you and 564 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: I disagree about something, that means you're prioritizing something differently 565 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: than I'm prioritizing something else. So when you realize that, 566 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: how can anyone possibly think with a clear conscience that 567 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: they have the right to set somebody else's priorities right? 568 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: But that's what cancel culture, cancel hullics, you know, cancel 569 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: Karen's want to do. They want to set your priorities right. 570 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: And so what's unique today, though, is that UM, in 571 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: this era of high tech, you know, UM amplification. You 572 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: have the power to consolidate and to amplify and to 573 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: leaver yourself so you can get just the most you know, 574 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: narcissistic salopsis. You know, busy buddy, give them a blue 575 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: check on Twitter, a couple of million followers, you know, 576 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: and suddenly they what date, what goes on in their 577 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: mind gets amplified a million times and suddenly someone's losing 578 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: a job, someone's getting dropped from some some publications, some 579 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: book deals, getting killed, and it just it just gets 580 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: levered up that way. Yeah, so it's nothing new, I 581 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, we see it on every level of society. Right, 582 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: So it's like, uh, if you have a homeowners association, 583 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: they want to get on the homeowner Socius board or 584 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: teachers association or whatever. Even today, I mean it's gotten crazy, 585 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: um flying and like the flight attendants used to be 586 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: there for like customer service to make sure that your 587 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: flight was going okay, and now it's like now that 588 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: they've learned, they have the power to kick people off 589 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: the plane. You know, it's like you do what I say, 590 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,719 Speaker 1: or I'll kick you off. And it's like wait a minute, 591 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: Like this this whole relationship change. So um, yeah, a 592 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,719 Speaker 1: little bit of power goes a long way. And so um, 593 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: I guess it's a culture of people not wanting to 594 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: to take care of themselves. They want to take care 595 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: of you. Yeah, that's exactly it. I mean, it really 596 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: comes down to you either think you can tell other 597 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: people what to do or you're worried about you know, 598 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: it's hard enough to look after your own life. And 599 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: I don't mean this from every man for himself dog 600 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: eat dog perspective. I mean this from cultivating yourself. Improving 601 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: yourself every day is a full time job and should be, 602 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,479 Speaker 1: and it's a full people should be spending a full 603 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: job on it. Yeah, and none of us have ever 604 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: complete that job. We have our hands full just taking 605 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: care of ourselves and making ourselves the best people we 606 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: can be. And if everyone does that, then you won't 607 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: have to tell everybody around you, you know, what you 608 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: think they should do to become a better person. You 609 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,479 Speaker 1: really have no clue. Well, and we've certainly seen, you know, 610 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: back to the back to the Karen thing and whatever. 611 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: We've certainly seen the leaders today they just feel like 612 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: they just know better and you just you're just not 613 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: smart enough to understand the issues. They come from this 614 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: moral high per of well, look, this is for your 615 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: own good because you don't understand it, you know. Yeah, 616 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: we've also seen we were talking before we were recording, 617 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: We're talking about democracy, and I was talking how I 618 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: see it as a tyranny of the minority by the majority. Well, 619 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: what I've seen in your country, Canada, from your democratic leaders, 620 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: if we'll call them that, right, the Trudeau's Party, but 621 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: even in the United States as well. Um, they're saying 622 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: it's these people are threatening our democracy. So because they 623 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: want something that we don't want, it's a threat to 624 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: our democracy. In the United States, it's getting paired it 625 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: all around democracy democracy, um, and and the same in Canada. 626 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: So it's like, this is what we want. The people 627 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: are saying they want something different, but they're the threat 628 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: to the democracy. But it's like, wouldn't that be the democracy? Yeah, exactly, 629 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: and um it's um. There's another phrase that hasn't caught 630 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: on quite the same, but Claus Schwab loves it. It's 631 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: called subsidiary, right, and and he it dresses up in 632 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: a nice term. It means like decisions should be made 633 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: as close to the local level as possible. So it 634 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: sort of almost sounds like, hey, we all get to 635 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: decide things for ourselves. But when you read between the lines, 636 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: what it really means is that we the elites, the 637 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: people from on what sorry, the elites, the people from 638 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: on high, we get to set the rules and subsidiarity 639 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: means you get to follow them anyway you want. And 640 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: democracy is like almost a synonym of that. It just means, um, 641 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: democracy is what the elites want, and anything that people 642 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: want to do for themselves that is against what the 643 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: elites want is by definition anti democratic. Yeah. So I 644 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: love that idea though, of decisions being made on a 645 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: local level, which is back to we were talking about 646 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: again before recording and how the United States isn't the democracy, 647 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: it's a republic. So we have this representative government and 648 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: that way you can have whatever is best for those 649 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: local people kind of making the decisions. One problem is 650 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: that in the United States, UM, as the population has 651 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: completely exploded, we didn't add more representatives. So we've even 652 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: centralized that right where you used to have small groups 653 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: of people represented, and now we have giant groups of 654 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: people who represented. And I think you know, like in 655 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: a homeowners association, I use that example a lot and 656 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: homeowners association. UM, it is kind of a democracy. We 657 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: vote on it. Now we do elect the board. We 658 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: vote for a board, and then they kind of run it. 659 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,399 Speaker 1: But it's a it's a democracy. The one difference though, 660 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: everyone in the homeowners association pays for owns a house 661 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: and they're paying that so their skin in the game. 662 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: But it's also done on a very small scale. Um. 663 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: I lived in a gated neighborhood and we didn't like it, 664 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: and now we moved to a non gated neighborhood and 665 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: now it's not as nice. The streets aren't as nice 666 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: people don't keep their homes up as nice. I don't 667 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: have a tennis, tennis court and pool anymore, but I 668 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: don't have people telling me what to do either, and 669 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: so I could make that trade off. The problem is 670 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: when you take away that local decision making where I 671 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: could just do that, and now everything is federal and 672 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: now I have no choice. We're kind of stuck with that. Yeah, 673 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: I mean, the ability to vote with your feet is 674 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, the last salvation and you know bitcoin is 675 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: the great opt out in my mind, is that's how 676 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: you opt out of these other rules. And to be clear, 677 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: like the definition of the subsidiarity is a good concept, 678 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: but it's been co opted by you know, people like 679 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: the Davos Crew who say, um, you know, it just 680 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: means that we've already decided the big picture stuff, so 681 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: you can you can fight climate change anyway you want, 682 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: except by saying, well, I don't think that there's a 683 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: emergency that's not one of the options that's already been decided. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 684 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: It's it's scary. You know, we're starting to see where 685 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: they're saying, you know, doctors that speak against the consensus 686 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: or science, they even said, scientists that speak against the consensus, 687 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,760 Speaker 1: and it's like all progress has come because they spoke 688 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: against the consensus. Everyone agreed that no one would ever fly. Yeah, yeah, 689 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: everyone agreed that. And the Right brothers were heretics. They 690 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: against the consensus. How dare they if it's consensus by definition, 691 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: isn't science. That's a famous quote from somewhere I can't remember. 692 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: But the story I love about the Wright brothers was 693 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: it was their their father, the pastor who coined, you know, 694 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 1: that famous phrase of God had intended man to fly wings. 695 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: That was their father. Well, he was certainly wrong about that. 696 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: What's interesting though, is that he uh, similar, similar, similar 697 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: to bitcoin. When Sados Nakamoto solved the general's problem, he 698 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: came from somewhere totally different that no one had looked at. 699 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: And we see that all the time. So the Right brothers, 700 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 1: they were not engineers. They were bicycle mechanics, and so 701 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: you kind of have to have that different point of view. Um, 702 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,479 Speaker 1: you're listening to the Mark Moa show, and uh, we're 703 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: talking about bitcoin, the Decentralized Revolution. I've been here talking 704 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: with Mark Jefftovic. We're talking about his book called Unassailable 705 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,720 Speaker 1: and you can find him on Twitter, um at stunt 706 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: Pope and check out his news letter of Crypto Capitalist. 707 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: That's what I got for you today. Thanks for listening.